YOE BOROUGH PG. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on November 11, 2008 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7:04PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council members in attendance: Sam Snyder
Others in attendance: Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
John Sanford, Mayor
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Stephen Stetler, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Economy
Kerry Moyer, Ph. D., Director of Research, Pennsylvania
Dennis Klinedinst, Red Lion Borough Council
Tina Frutiger, Red Lion Borough Council
Bob Frutiger, Red Lion Mayor
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to approve the minutes from
the October 7, 2008 meeting. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said minutes approved.
Presentation to Councilman Ronald Crull
Councilman Snyder said I’d like to turn the meeting over to the mayor at
this time for a special presentation that he has. Mayor Sanford said I have two
awards for Ron Crull. This is in conjunction with our annual banquet of the
York County Boroughs Association. Every year we honor those in the communities
that we serve, for the years of service to their own borough communities. And it
gives me great pleasure to present this award to you for your forty years of service
Presentation to Councilman Ronald Crull Pg. 2
for and to Yoe Borough. Congratulations. Councilman Crull said thank you. Mayor
Sanford said and then on behalf of the, all of the representatives in our area. This is
citation from the House of Representatives. The signer was Ron Miller, but its on
his behalf and all the representatives of the county, honoring you for your years
of service. Here is the citation. Congratulations. Councilman Crull said thank you
again. Councilman Snyder asked are you ready for another forty years? Councilman
Crull said I don’t think I would make it. Councilman Snyder said congratulations,
Ron. We appreciate everything you’ve done for the borough. That’s a big accomplishment, forty years.
Yoe Ambulance Agreement
Councilman Snyder said on to visitors. Ted Hake with Yoe Ambulance is
not here tonight. I did speak with our solicitor. He said he’ll be here about seven
thirty. He did have an opportunity to look over the latest changes to the agreement
with the Yoe Fire Ambulance Service. They concurred with his findings, that some
of those paragraphs needed to be changed and those changes did take place.
So we now we have the new updated contract here for the Yoe Ambulance, for the
contract year beginning January 1, 2009 ending December 31, 2013. And of course
that was for $5000.00 a year for those five years. Do I have motion to sign that
agreement? A motion was made by Councilman Allar to sign that agreement.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Crull. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
Councilman Allar said I talked to him on the phone but I guess the representative
from PEL are not here yet. Councilman Snyder said on the agenda list, there
was a representative from the Pennsylvania Economy League. Of course that’s
what Tom just referenced that they are not here yet. We do have in the audience,
Pam Shellenberger from YCPC and Connie Stokes from Dallastown. Councilman
Allar said those two are not here. Councilman Snyder said Dennis Klinedinst,
from Red Lion Borough. Councilman Allar said also we have Bob Frutiger from
Red Lion that is the mayor and Tina Frutiger who is on the council. If you
want to wait that’s fine, its your call. Councilman Snyder said I guess there
are no other visitors that would like to be recognized? Solicitor’s report, Pete
will be here at 7:30.
Dam Mr. Reichard said the big project, is the dam dredging project.
Dredging The big news of the day, we had an onsite meeting with DEP,
representatives from York Township and Yoe Borough. The
purpose of the meeting was to get the DEP Division of Dam
Safety to come out and observe the situation at the borough’s
dam. To access the magnitude of the sediment that has been
Engineer’s Report Page 3
been deposited in the structure and the scale of the work that is
at hand. We basically went over our project. The Division of
Dam Safety is going to allow us to remove the material under
what I call our current operating permit for our structure as it
sits today. That’s great news. We have to do a wetland delineation
report, submit that. They’re trying to swap some of the wetland
around, either the part around Springwood Road that one section
that is permitted mitigation area for wetland. They’re going to
try to move wetlands elsewhere and eliminate that site. The problem
is that’s DEP’s side, the Army Corps side, that’s another issue. I
spoke with Mike Dinko, who is the local representative up in
Carlisle and he is pretty much in favor, he understands what is
happening with the project, he understands what the borough’s
situation is, sounds like he is willing to work with us. Its promising
however, there is a lot of paperwork that is going to follow up
with the back side. Once we get the wetland report into DEP, and
they sign off, we’ll follow through with them and find out what
the course of action is. The problem is the Army Corps has
established an easement, the purpose of the easement was to
protect wetlands and in black and white the borough is proposing
to eliminate them, no matter how you look at it, we’re eliminating
a portion of the wetlands. That becomes a big paper challenge to
try to get through. So there is a process for it. We’re explore it
and see what we have to do. The only other, the second step of
this, which makes it more complicated is the fore bay option. DEP
is basically saying, if we are to build another berm within our basin,
that this evaluated any point higher than what it was originally built
at. That would require a new permit. That would require a dam permit.
That would be a lot of work. The only option would be basically
to depress the basin, below the drain. So you aren’t impounding
additional water behind the dam which can effect properties with
a flood issue. Alleviates the dam permit requirement, put we still
need a dam permit to do that. As soon as we step into that side of
the project, then we get a little gray, the time involved for engineering
to process that permit, arrange with York Township. That’s kind
in the air. We are moving along with the first step, just getting
the basin dredged out. Councilman Allar said will that be efficient
as far as sediment? Mr. Reichard said no, it won’t be. Councilman
Allar asked 5%? Mr. Reichard said I don’t have a percentage, that’s
tough to say. Right now the dam that’s there is the most efficient
structure. So anything smaller in there, than that, is obviously going
to be less efficient. In talking with Jake Romig of Ecostruction.
He feels there is still going to potential that sediment is going to
pass through that fore bay structure. Now its going to be the large
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 4
material. The material you see now, with the large stones, gravel,
bed material, will definitely be caught. That tends to move faster,
above the channel. It’s all the fine, the silt material that you see,
at the far end of the basin, where all the grass is growing now, that’s
the kind stuff no matter what you build there, its going to be difficult.
In terms of the borough and maintenance, I think if you are catching
the large debris, if you walk up the channel, there’s a lot of it up there,
its amazing what’s upstream coming down here. Councilman Allar
asked the visitors are here can be break? Mr. Reichard said it’s a good
breaking point. Councilman Snyder said so we can proceed, with just
the dredging. I know there is inter-municipal monies there, we can
proceed with that and then still work out, what we can work out with
the fore bay. Mr. Reichard said its attached, its still part of the process,
you can’t lose that but at a minimum we can do the dredging and have
Councilman Allar said last month I mentioned I was going to invite the Pennsylvania
Economy League here to discuss what they do, how it relates to the joint comp plan,
the three boroughs have been working on. Councilman Allar introduced the council and
the Red Lion representatives. I invited Dallastown also. We have two of the three
municipalites. I talked to Joe, he is familiar what we are trying with the comp plan and
he talked with DCED, and they are kind of excited about this, working these two processes together. Introduce yourself. My name is Steve Stetler, I’m the executive
director of Pennsylvania Economy League. I happened to be from York. Unfortunately,
Joe Boyle from Wilkes Barre is sick, but we spoke today. The economy league has
been in existence for 72 years. A lot of project in York County. It started in the thirties,
when municipalities didn’t have the extra staff to help with budgets and that sort of things. Over the years, these municipalities have become more sophisticated, able
to do that type of work. We work with municipalities for specific issues. Whether
its five year plans, we work with a lot of school districts, we do a lot of enrollment
studies. At the state level, Kerry and I do a lot of work with mergers of school
districts, healthy communities, transportation studies, anything with strategic planning,
economic development. Joe Boyle who is Wilkes Barre, specializes in mergers and
consolidation. Kerry who is with me, works with Halifax/Millersburg as a management
plan with the school districts. He has a lot of experience. Joe Boyle was very intrigued
with the process that you are going through with the tri boroughs. For along time, if
you didn’t know, I was a state legislature for eight terms, retiring in 2006 to take the
position with PEL. I spent a lot of time with York Counts and a lot of organizations
like that in planning. The relationship with PEL and York Counts has been good.
Kerry would walk you through it, his discussion with Joe, give our organization
the opportunity to help you with it. Mr. Moyer, said based on the five year planning,
and the cooperation between the boroughs. To build on the plan, where do we go
Visitors(cont.) Page 5
here and what do we hope for. The first priority is how do you do that. Joe is
willing to work with you to do a five year financial and revenue projection
for each of the boroughs. Which gives everyone the chance to see, the direction,
fiscal help, how to fund these plans to move forward. Addition to that, we would
take a brief look at demographics, other financial things for the borough. We look
at the expense side, we look at the next five years. All three boroughs, look at
it and see what we are doing, how much and the plan is benefited. DCED is
really interested in development of the three municipalities. Have a chance,
to take it further, to serve as a benchmark for other municipalities in the same
situations. To help with financial support, we are able to do this. We are a non
profit organization. We work with a lot of municipalities of all size. New opportunities to develop the idea of sharing services. This is the time to do this type of plan, this is
the time to study before outside sources come in to play. The timing is good, the
ability is there and the opportunity is there. To my knowledge there is no other process going on where the 3 boroughs are planning on doing this for financial. DCED is
coming at it fro both angles, both as a study and as a pilot test case. DCED is very
intrigued about this. Councilman Allar said DCED has grant money which is usually
a 50/50 match, its my understanding from Joe, that they might go as far as a 20% match
or no match at all. Mr. Stetler said the popular one is 70 to 80% match. I have not
heard of any talk of 100%. Councilman Allar said again they are enthused about
this being a pilot program. So, we can look that we need to 20 to 30% match, or
maybe even better than that. Mr. Stetler said going forward, there are organizations,
outside that may be willing to help, with organizations like York Countys. Councilman
Allar said Pam Shellenberger from YCPC said she is interested. She was suppose to
be here. We have the county support whether or not they supply money. Mr. Stetler
said but you have your planning grant, applied for through CDBG. Councilman Allar said we will know for sure by the end of December. From the county $17,500.00, the remainder comes to $65,000.00 from LUPAC by the end of year. Mr. Stetler said you
want to make your local representatives aware, that’s critical. Councilman Allar said
Senator Waugh is aware. Councilman Allar asked what projects have you done for
municipalities in York County? Mr. Stetler said we were, we do a lot of school districts in York County. Central School District. We a lot of their population studies. A lot of the
schools need expansions and to qualify for state funding for expansion they need population studies. We did a study for Mt. Wolf, Manchester Borough and East Manchester Township on a merger. It is at a stand still right now. Why that hasn’t
moved along I don’t know. We work with York Counts and some of their organizations on some of their projects. We do a lot of revenue projects. A lot of school work.
Councilman Noll said in order to receive money through DCED to get grants
filled out, we need to file applications. Is that something that you would do as
part of this process? Whose responsibility is it to do that? Who pays for that
work? Mr. Stetler said I’m not exactly sure, where allocation would come from,
it would be a normal DCED grant application. We would help. Joe would be able
to help you. Councilman Noll said with the next cycle for those grants, with
application, would that be funded, is it sooner the better? Mr. Stetler said there
Visitors(cont.) Page 6
are different types of grants in DCED,some run the physical year, there is a set amount of money. No preconceived spending. We can get in their research. Councilman Noll asked so you are saying this physical year? Mr. Stetler said I’m saying 08-09. Mr. Moyer said
generally the application is two page application and we would put together the scope
of work for the three boroughs that’s effective for DCED. Councilman Noll said do you have any idea what the full scope of something like this would cost? $100,000.00 or
$150,000.00. It would give us some kind of idea what the municipalities would need for
something like this. Mr. Stetler said I think in talking with Joe and Jerry Cross, I think
it would be around $70,000.00 to $75,000.00 for all three boroughs. If you get a grant
for 80%, it would about $14,000.00 to $15,000.00. Joe can send to the mayor the scope
of work. Kerry is actually doing a study using a DCED grant. Joe gets down here quite a bit. Councilman Allar asked is it possible to set up a meeting to have more detail,
maybe ideas. Red Lion, do you want to take it another step further and involve Connie.
I have a lot of questions on how it interfaces, what do you do with the comp plan. I don’t want to hash this all out now. Councilman Noll asked conceptually I understand what
you are doing, but I would want to know what is one benefit on why would want to do
this, what would the biggest benefit for getting the biggest bang for our buck to get
something like this? Mr. Stetler said two words, cost avoidance. Everyone would agree
inflation and all of those things. And the budget, health care, pension. The really good thing, to deal with as a group, that can lead to savings. It may not be immediate. But
at least squeeze the budget, keep what we have. There are small population decreases
here in all three boroughs. But you know, you are fiscally healthy. It’s a good time to
sit down, figure where you will be in five years. See where all three boroughs will
bet. Strategic planning to run with this. Costs and see where all three boroughs are.
Our people have fun with numbers. Its PEL’s forte. Mr. Klinedinst said you are saying its going to be a big plus for all three boroughs, you are looking at it on the outside. Mr.
Stetler said I grew up in York, I am familiar with Dallastown. Get all our thoughts and
talk about it. Get our costs together like with police and that leads to other opportunities.
What the uses are, for 3, 5, 7 years. What the demographics are. Population. Mr. Klinedinst said I’m on council and I see it deteriorate down, down. If this
brings us together. Mr. Stetler said you can go to Healthy Communities Part I at www.issuespa.net and it will walk you through the life cycle of a community. All three of you are still healthy. Out of 2565 municipalities. 50% aren’t. So what can you do so you don’t become one? How do we control things? Jerry Cross from our office in Wilkes Barre is presenting this to a community named Coopersburg with a five year study.
Kerry has a copy for you. That will give you an idea what the projections look like.
We appreciate your time. How about I get Joe put together a scope of work, to take
a look at. Councilman Allar said we will need a scope of work. Cards were giving to the borough with names of those participating. Councilman Snyder asked for any comments.
Councilman Myers said I think its interesting, I think we should try, I’d soon as see
us work ahead to make sure we don’t go in the wrong direction. If we can get them to do a study. Councilman Snyder said I think it’s a perfect opportunity. You can take back to Red Lion that Yoe Borough is interested in it. Definitely would like to hear more about
Visitors(cont.) Page 7
what the proposal is and what the scope of work is. It sounds like we would
need $15,000.00 from the three municipalities to come with, and if they’re going
to look at a five year fiscal study of each municipality, that would probably help us in the long way to implement the comprehensive plan. So you can take that back to Red Lion.
We’ll let Connie know and see how Dallastown thinks. Councilman Allar said I think we’ll have a better understanding, Dallastown needs to decide. Councilman Snyder said
at least it gives Red Lion something to take back to their council. Until you actually
have it in writing, there are going to be numerous resolutions. The secretary said with our
meeting on Friday with DCED, they do that too. They do five year program, an intervention program, is there a difference in cost between DCED doing it, and PEL doing it. Councilman Allar said this is what PEL calls it an intervention plan. I’m thinking they use these people. The secretary said I have the card of the financial person from DCED, do you want me to call her? Councilman Snyder said we were both at the
same meeting, and especially after listening to this woman speak. I’m not sure how
Red Lion is set, she had me scare anyways, I found that Yoe when we do our budget,
probably isn’t doing our budget the proper way. And we have what is called a structure
deficit into our budget. With the few times I sat in with Dallastown, and Red Lion, I think
the problem is, the same thing with the beginning opening balance. Its saying you have a structured deficit right in the budget, technically what they like to see is, your income equaling your expenses without having to touch your beginning balance and your savings count. I don’t know of any small municipality that doesn’t do that. We have to come up with $75,000.00 which would be doubling our property tax right off the bat to get rid
of that. So it scared me, when she said about that. So I think it would be good, to get some people to look in on us and see what they can do to get away from that. Councilman Allar said and we can see what works and what doesn’t work in other communities. This is not the first small borough. We don’t have that experience so. Councilman Snyder said and the fact is what I was getting at was, what Sandy said, the fact that DCED was willing to contribute that much, what we heard up there, it was a 50/50 match with DCED. Sounds like their going to be utilizing the same pot of money because PEL is involved with this, they’re will to stretch the rules a little bit and maybe do this 70/80
match instead of a 50/50. I think we’re working with the same group. Councilman Allar said actually again, I’m going to have Joe Boyle get back and touch with all of us. He actually at one point talked about no match. Councilman Snyder said my only concern which he sort of touched on, I didn’t want to get too involved in. Is the timing of it.
That would we would garner any better information if we saw what the comp plan and
the tri municipal comp plan said, this is the direction you should go in and then see
where see where our financial situation is, to see where we would meet some of those
goals that are brought up in the comp. He made the comment that we wouldn’t be tripping over our toes there. So I don’t, without actually seeing what it entails, if
we would garner anything good out of that or not. Councilman Noll said so you’d be looking at those goals as per financial planning, they would have their issues. You’ve got
a problem, it doesn’t address how you’re going to make the solution. Councilman Allar said another advantage, a lot of the information is raw data. You are welcome to stay.
Visitors(cont.) Page 8
Councilman Allar said I should mention when talking about the dredging the basin,
I’ve been talking to Denny here for a year now. He’s willing to take the dirt.
Mr. Klinedinst said we have a rail trail that we are putting up there by the ball field,
we would be willing to take the dirt. Councilman Allar said if we’re talking about
trying to save money, a big chunk of that money is trying to haul that dirt away.
Now, relocation would be from the basin, about a half a mile. I got to believe there
would be savings, if you put the numbers in there, having a local dump site. We
are still going to have dump trucks in here.
Basin Mr. Reichard said we’re talking about the basin and our steps with DEP
and the Army Corps of which we all have direction on. The one thing
that is in question, is the fore bay and how we’re going to proceed with that.
I need some direction from council. Do you want me to proceed with
putting together a plan of action on how we’re actually going to construct
this basin. Obviously DEP has requested that, they want some proposal
from us so they can truly evaluate the level what they require to go through.
At this point, we haven’t touched it. So. It our sense, the two options would
be on the Riedel property or on our own property that we have now. Work
up two scenarios with that, and work up the dimensions to it and have a hard
proposal. At this point , I’d like to have some kind of general consensus from
council if you’d like to see something to proceed with. Councilman Noll said
before you do that, we perhaps would want to give the information on the
Riedel property. Mr. Reichard said that actually ties in with the grant work
that we’re putting together. Sam was asking about the DCED grant that
we’re ready to submit. The application itself is prepared. It does require
a resolution to be passed by the borough which uses 50% of the loan amount
I think we need some in put if that is a legitimate proposal for the borough
to proceed with. Solicitor Solymos said they involve litigation so we would
need an executive session. Councilman Allar said if you want to do that, I had
two meetings with the gentleman on the land.
Executive Session at 7:54PM
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to move into executive session at 7:54PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said motion carried.
Reconvening the Regular Meeting at 9:25PM
Councilman Snyder said let direction be given to the borough engineer that he is
to proceed with the filing of the PEMA grant to meet the deadline using his
best engineering judgment as far as pursuing an inside or outside fore bay based
Reconvening the Regular Meeting at 9:25PM Page 9
on his engineering evaluation. And to proceed far enough until he extrapolates
enough information to see that the current funds that we have available would
be enough to cover the said project and no PEMA grant would be then not
needed. If we find out that the PEMA grant is needed, then we proceed with that
line. The second part of the motion then, for the solicitor to review with whomever
he deems appropriate, for the resolution 2008-11. And for me to sign that
resolution and to fill in the appropriate amount based on his affirmative report
back that it is appropriate to sign, said resolution. That part be resolved to sign
the resolution. A motion was made in that form and to resolve by Councilman
Noll. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried and be it resolved.
Park Mr. Reichard said Seth, Dana and I met about the community park, and
put down some improvements for the playground equipment and some
cost numbers on it. I need to sit down and do an updated layout and send
it to DCNR for their review. That is on the move.
FEMA Mr. Reichard said I have a letter that Sandy gave me from FEMA. Basically
they went through and updated all their flood insurance rate maps. And
there’s issues with them, missing street names, boundaries of the flood
plain don’t match as they should be. They’re requesting that someone from
the borough attend from the borough, their meeting on December 1 to
review their maps and add their input where necessary. I can probably
go on behalf of the borough unless someone else wants to go. Councilman
Snyder said I think it would be important that someone from your office
at least attend. I did notice that mentioned about administration and permitting.
I don’t know that Dan has to go so much, you are the one that knows more
about the floodplain. Mr. Reichard said we’re putting something together
internally for other municipalities.
App Mr. Reichard said we sent in the application for county aid as per
County your last meeting for two bridge structures.
LTAP Councilman Snyder said we had received the information from LTAP
on on the findings of the meeting that was held on Broad Street with all
Broad their calculations with all the activity data up there. As matter of
St. they found there wasn’t enough excessive speed. Councilman Allar
said I am suggesting that we send a copy of that to the citizens that
brought it to our attention, so they know what the results are.
The secretary said Mr. Strawser and Mr. Grim. Councilman Snyder
said the mayor indicated that he would draft that letter and forward
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 10
a copy of that cover letter with basically the findings.
YCPC Councilman Snyder said we did receive a notice, I noticed on the
Notice bottom of your engineering report, we received information from York
County Planning for the CDBG, it has been proposed for funding and
at this time you are requested to review the enclosed exhibit, its been
approved. You are requested to review the enclosed exhibit one and
exhibit two, with your project or municipal engineer and notify me of
their accuracy or any proposed changes. And then the enclosed architect/
engineer certification that the proposed project is not a maintenance
project and eligible for CDBG. You can take that along and you need
to fill it out. Mr.Reichard said he will just take this and make a copy
DEP Councilman Snyder said we received information from DEP concerning
MS-4 the current status of the MS-4 permit. That information was forwarded
Status to your office mid month. Basically they’re now allowing, DEP has
administratively extended the expiration of the current NPDES phase
two general permit by one year. Mr. Reichard said we will be in touch.
Yoe Solicitor Solymos said I rejected the original Yoe Ambulance proposal
Amb. the way it was drafted, it was redrafted, I had no problems with the way
Agree- it was redrafted. I did tell their representative, that the borough would
ment enter into the agreement the way it was redrafted. So that’s the situation.
MPC Solicitor Solymos said with regard with the MPC, we don’t have, the
county is our planning commission. But if we did have a planning
commission, yes we could charge a flat rate fee, an application for
a land development plan or a subdivision plan, we could also
escrow monies by resolution or ordinance to cover our potential
cost. Then you would reimburse to the engineer if you overcharge.
You raised that at the last meeting. Councilman Noll said so you
can’t do that because we don’t have our own planning commission.
Solicitor Solymos said right we don’t have our own, we can’t
ask York County to collect. We could ask York County Planning
if they collect their review fees, would they collect our engineering
review fees. If you want me to call Randy Beck or anybody over
there. Councilman Noll said he may have a little more pull. Solicitor
Solymos said I’ll call Randy Beck. Councilman Noll said I think
its worth checking into.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11
Cottrell Solicitor Solymos said there was also questions on what it cost for
Costs Cottrell from the time we got notice of contempt and since that time,
cause we did get reimbursed for the all the work to get their chest
up out of the fire. I gave those, you have a copy of those, their
highlighted in yellow. If you don’t have information, give me a call.
Draft Solicitor Solymos in regards to the garbage contract, I did complete
the draft and I had the numbers reversed which I will correct, typo
on that. Sam you’ll have to look at it, based on what we talked
Lawyer Solicitor Solymos said I contacted Chronister’s lawyer, told him
that I had no authority to settle but I suspected that we would settle.
Ask him to get back to me, I haven’t heard. Soon as I hear, I’ll
let you know where we are at that.
Agree- Solicitor Solymos said you asked me to look into the agreement with
ment regard to the traffic light and the maintenance. I believe it is a
contract, and its maintenance. The question was, and maybe that
was a two part question, can you get this cheaper some place else,
but you had a maintenance contract with this guy, you don’t want
to muddy the waters there. Because of the issue, maybe our
guy would come down and lower the price. But that’s all I had.
Councilman Noll said another option would be billing one half
this year and one half next year. Solicitor Solymos said that’s
an option but I feel you are able to do it with that contract.
Councilman Snyder said the real issue came up with Dana,
was because we have that contract, can we utilize that and
go with him. And not have to worry about the bidding issue
if it goes above that. Solicitor Solymos said and I say its
valid contract and its maintenance and you need maintenance.
And I think that is the answer to the auditors. Councilman Noll
said what problem do we have if, we say come down and just
do it. Solicitor Solymos said they might have you pay the
extra eight hundred because its over. With the amount of
difference and your good faith alliance with your solicitor,
I don’t know that they’d do that much to you unless someone
really has a problem. Mr. Shearer said I trust Pete’s opinion.
Solicitor Solymos said I think one of the ways is explain
the problem to it, you can negotiate it. You are the man,
we have a contract, we have a potential problem with the
bidding issue. Can you do this for whatever? That would be
the ultimate saving grace. A motion to have Dana go ahead
and have Milt’s do the work at the regular inspection and
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
use liquid fuels to pay that bill by Councilman Noll. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
Hemler Councilman Snyder said they did get back, they would go ahead
Contract and sign the amendment like we had from the previous year.
At that point, I need to sign. A motion was made by Councilman
Crull to sign the Hemler contract with the amendment. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
SPCA Councilman Snyder said the SPCA contract, we did look into that.
Pete didn’t have any problems with that, the only thing could we
get it someplace cheaper. No one else got back to us on that.
A motion to sign the SPCA contract by Councilman Myers. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
Bowser Solicitor Solymos said we did receive the payment from Todd Bowser.
Engage-Councilman Snyder said the engagement letter with Stambaugh Ness
ment We forwarded it to you for review, this year they wanted the secretary
Letter to sign off on it instead of me. The secretary saw a problem with it,
and made the solicitor aware of it. Solicitor Solymos saw a problem
with it also, you are aid to council but not council. They made the
change. A motion to sign the letter of intent with Stambaugh Ness
was made by Councilman Crull. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion
Res. Councilman Snyder said along with that, Pennsylvania requires on
2008- annual basis that the auditors be appointed by resolution. A motion
10 to resolve Resolution 2008-10, be it resolve that the borough council
does appoint Stambaugh Ness as independent auditor for the Borough
of Yoe for the year 2009 to perform an audit of the financial books
for the year ending December 31, 2008 by Councilman Crull. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said so be it resolved.
Budget Councilman Snyder said we had our budget workshop. Expenditures
for the year 2009 are set 399,443.00 with total available of $410,187.00.
A motion was made by Councilman Noll to accept the preliminary
budget for 2009. The motion was seconded by Councilman Crull.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. The secretary
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
said the final budget will be adopted at the meeting December 9.2008.
Councilman Snyder said I’ll work with you Pete on getting an ordinance
for tax mileage for next month.
Code Councilman Snyder said I did get an answer back from Code Administrators.
Adm. They did say, all we have to do is pass an administrative fee resolution.
Fee Typically they have, municipalities charge ten percent of the permit. If we
Res. wanted to, we could do that. or just charge a flat $10.00 or $25.00 for
residential. They would recommend charging a percentage for commercial
because there is a lot more involved to that. Since we are coming up on
new year, and we would need a resolution passed before January 6th
meeting. Do we want Pete to draft a resolution to incorporate set fee?
Councilman Noll said have Pete draft it, make it both percentages, that
way you don’t have to decide five years from now. Councilman Snyder
said this is work for you, draft a resolution for the borough to charge
administrative UCC fees, associated with issuance of permits. The
secretary asked how will that work, will they pay it them and have them
send it to me, or two separate checks. Councilman Noll said you could
do it either way. Councilman Snyder said 10% fee for UCC fee. I looked
at the zoning report, you see $2500.00, $6500.00, so you are looking
at $25.00. Councilman Noll said its not a windfall but its something to
aid. Councilman Snyder said 10 or 15%? Councilman Noll said 10%.
Solicitor Solymos said a 10% on the code administrator fee, he collects
it and reimburses us. Councilman Snyder said its called an administrative
and maintenance fee on UCC inspections. If you need to call Jason
Stevens at Code Administrators, he has the site where that is located in
the UCC. Solicitor Solymos said that would be nice. Councilman Noll
said it gives us the authority. Councilman Snyder said we want it effective
Boro Councilman Snyder said this was brought to our attention in the borough’s
News newsletter that according to section 611.2 of the Pennsylvania Vehicle
Per Code, it is the duty of the property owner to remove the hazard that
Haz- obstructs the view of any driver, that the police would prepare a report
ards of any accidents of property damages, then the borough would notify
the homeowner and order the hazard to be removed within ten days.
Failure to remove said hazard is a summary offense, with every day
of violation constitutes a new violation of ten dollars. Ten dollar fine,
because its statutorily set, I don’t know if we want to get involved
with pursuing a ten dollar fine, if that is the maximum that we can
collect. Solicitor Solymos said the problem then becomes, if you
have a hazard and regardless of the fine. I think you have to move on
it and that is to actually remove it. Councilman Noll asked its ten
bucks per day, correct? Councilman Snyder said yes, ten bucks per
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 14
day once its been deemed a hazard. So. Solicitor Solymos said
that’s nothing new. Councilman Snyder said there it just gave,
because there was some discussion before if it came under our
zoning, whether we had the right to do it, whether it was a
PENN DOT issue and this just happened to come up. Food
for thought for now. Solicitor Solymos said and I would pursue
it. Councilman Noll said I would agree with Pete.
Open Councilman Snyder said we got notice that the sewer authority
Re- passed an open records retention policy, or resolution. Discussion
cords became should we be passing one of them. Solicitor Solymos
Res. said yes we should. Councilman Snyder said at that point take
the sewer authority’s. Solicitor Solymos and use that format,
everybody is adopting that. Councilman Snyder said do you
have a copy of that? The secretary said it could be someplace.
Solicitor Solymos said I did it for Hellam. Councilman Snyder
said if you did one for Hellam, we don’t have one. Solicitor
Solymos said it’s a standard form, to adopt. Everyone uses
the same one. That would be the next resolution, they’d be
resolutions 12 and 13.
Cott- Councilman Allar asked on the Cottrell matter? The official
rell title was Cottrell vs. Richard Baade, Zoning Officer. Is there
anything we have to do since he was named? Solicitor
Solymos said he has already been released as part of the
Councilman Snyder said don’t forget the second week of
December. Solicitor Solymos said I may be late but I’ll
Meet Mr. Shearer said I had a meeting with Don Bubb last Friday.
With I had him on site up there at Philadelphia and Elm. I laid
Don out our concerns as far as the issue that we receive the cut
Bubb through traffic, we realize that the stop sign is not the answer.
YCPC We were looking to see if their was any other recommendations
that he could give to us. What I did, I presented him with
a map of the street. Explained to him, that one of the basic
things, was the traffic up in Dallastown, we’re actually getting
cut through traffic from the two stop signs on State Route 2007,
at the intersection of Lombard and Broad, and Broad and
North Pleasant in Dallastown. He agrees, he can see where
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 15
that could be causing some problems. We didn’t getting a lot
of traffic coming through that intersection of Elm and
Philadelphia while we were standing there. And his recommendation
was, if you’d like to go further, that we look at what we discussed
either Philadelphia Street be one way from Elm to Main, or that we
install a semi diverter to limit access onto Philadelphia. His recommendation
would be that, we approach Dallastown to see if they would be interested
in doing a traffic study on three locations of the single stop sign at
Broad Street and Pleasant. What would be required, would be a stop
on Pleasant, stopping the traffic that would come up Elm Street where
it turns onto Pleasant up through Dallastown, stop that traffic. And
we would need a stop sign on the other side of that intersection coming
down from Main Street in Dallastown on Pleasant, likely a stop sign
with right turn to follow the state road. His suggestions if we do that,
if we want to put in the one way street so we can eliminate any of
the over flow traffic on Third and Fourth. And if there are any other
issues where the traffic continues onto Elm St., have to readjust
any of the stop signs at the other intersections. We need to look at
that. We can try it on a temporary basis. I’m sure getting Dallastown
and the state to agree on a stop sign change, is going to be more of
a permanent thing. Cause the state would have to approve the stop
sign change, because that is their road. Traffic control device on
their street. They would have to agree on the traffic study. Mayor
Sanford added the ideal time for that would be right after they
repave. That’s suppose to start in April. Councilman Snyder said
and that request would have to come from Dallastown Borough.
Mr. Shearer said we would have to get them to agree that there
is a problem and they’d be willing to help and they’d have to
request a traffic study to correct that problem. Councilman Snyder
said its just a matter of contacting Connie and saying this is what
we’re looking at and see how she wants to handle it. Say have
you’ve been noticing problems and do you think its an issue
too? And that would get a green light and be something simple.
Councilman Allar said aren’t we missing a step here? Talking
to the citizens on Elm and W. Philadelphia? Has anyone up
there complained about this? Mrs. Crull said about the traffic,
yes. Councilman Allar said if we go up there, and stand in
middle of W. Philadelphia, and count the cars on Philadelphia,
and count the cars on the one alley and count the cars on the
other alley. You come up with easily thirty vehicles. If you
go one way up there, those cars use the alley on the northern
side, they’re not going to be able to get in. They all come
up Philadelphia. You need to contact all the people on
Main coming from Elm, to make sure that this traffic
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 16
pattern is going to be acceptable. This can’t work, we’ve got so
many vehicles to keep them in Yoe, this is the most efficient
way to move these vehicles. I’m telling you it works. Councilman
Snyder said I have no problem of going out on the limb. People
on Main Street that use the alley can go up Newton. And get
the alley that way. If they are coming down the other way, they
can still go down. Councilman Allar said when you are talking
about turning unto Newton, you’re talking about a tight turn,
on a very busy street, running the risk of getting rear ended,
they’re not going to be happy with that. Councilman Snyder said
they’re used to turning into an alley to begin with. Councilman
Allar said going up Elm, you have to slow down but you don’t
have to come to a dead stop. That’s the way you have to do it
to go up Newton. Go ahead, but don’t be surprised if a lot of
people are concerned. Councilman Snyder said what I liked
to hear is that he is willing to try it on a temporary basis.
Mr. Shearer said anything like this you can try on a temporary
basis. Councilman Snyder said I’d like to try it on a temporary
basis and see what residents we get complaining, see what
we get in the way what we get in traffic, let the police know
about it, so if needed there is some ticketing. Councilman
Allar said its like when you talked about no parking on Main
Street, you get the word out and so forth, so at least they
know about it and can express their views. We’re not doing
that, we’re just going ahead. Doesn’t seem right, I don’t know.
Councilman Allar said I think Barry would agree, there is enough
traffic on Broad now. How are you going to get to those apartments?
You go on Main Street and turn up Broad, because you’re not going
to get to them going up Philadelphia so Broad Street gets more
congested. Whatever we do, there’s going to be a reaction to.
Councilman Myers asked I wonder why they couldn’t instead of
putting that stop sign in Dallastown at Broad Street and North
Pleasant, why they couldn’t put that stop sign at King Street at
the top of the hill? Mr. Shearer said the theory of the stop sign is,
the most heavily traveled road is the one that stops. The side
streets don’t get stop signs. It would be hard for them to justify
changing that stop sign from the way it is. The reason that stop
signs are the way they are now at Philadelphia, is because the
majority of the traffic on N. Philadelphia turns unto Elm St.,
that’s the main traffic flow so in essence what we are doing
with those two stop signs now is we are stopping the side street
traffic, that the main flow is up to there. It’s a real tough sell,
they would have to be something that pertains to that intersection
to do that. Don even expressed that he’s not quite sure, why
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 17
the stop sign up in Dallastown is the way it is. Because in theory,
it should be reversed. I mean if you apply, the condition to warrant,
it should be the other way. Those people shouldn’t have to stop coming
out there. Going out on a limb here, assuming the reason it is that way,
is because of limited sight distance for those people. I believe Dallastown
was given a traffic study that recommended to eliminate some parking
spots on Pleasant Avenue in front of that white house. But they didn’t
do that, those spots are still there. In essence that’s why that stop sign
is at Broad Street, they need to stop to see past those cars. Councilman
Allar said the problem we have on Elm, is the problem, is stopping on
hill. Mr. Shearer said the funny thing about the warrants is, it doesn’t
make it doesn’t apply any of those conditions. Yes, that’s why just
like the other reason why we would have it the way it is now on
Philadelphia is because it might require some of those people to
pull out onto Philadelphia on Elm. Councilman Allar said it was
said that at one time we did have stop signs on Elm? Councilman
Crull said we did. Mayor Sanford said could we put that counter
on Elm for a week? Mr. Shearer said I mention to Don that in the
future I’d like to get LTAP counters to know what, just what the
volume of traffic is that’s coming up through there, and where
the volumes are coming from. Councilman Snyder said one of the
things we have to look out for, is once we mention speed. That’s.
Mayor Sanford said see how many cars are Elm versus Main.
Mr. Shearer said speed is one condition of traffic commons. Its
what we were talking about on Broad Street. And the reason Broad
Street, the recommendations that came back to us, speed conditions
were out of question because we weren’t in that percentile. What
that study shows on that street, you’re averaging 1000 cars a day.
Five hundred in each direction, averaging 1000 cars a day. Just
for that little street. And I, its hard time, saying all those cars
are making a thousand trips, some of that traffic has to be
cut through traffic. According to PENN DOT, in there traffic
volume map, that leg of Main Street, has roughly 6, 000
cars a day, on that road. That’s within, if you half that, that’s
3000 cars. How many of them, I don’t if that’s counting those
6000 cars above Philadelphia or below Philadelphia, that’s
sort of unknown about knowing the site, to know is that
6000 cars that make it to the top of the hill, not counting
how many thousand up Elm and Philadelphia. Mayor
Sanford said we can get those numbers and use to help
settle it. Councilman Allar said the traffic study that
Rexroth, has a much different total. Maybe 10 to 12
thousand. Mr. Shearer said that’s there again, that just
goes to show, 6300 cars, this is off the 2006 traffic volume
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 18
map. That’s the numbers that they have. Councilman Snyder
said one thing we’re not going to be able to do is to put
that LTAP equipment and put it on Main Street. That should
determine how many are going up the loop. They don’t want
that on state roads. I already talked to Dana about that. Mr.
Shearer said they said that what we would have to happen,
do a two person count, volume of cars going up the hill,
volume of cars going down the hill. Councilman Snyder said
we all know that this what the traffic is doing, we all know
that’s what’s happening. Whether its 10,000 or 5, 000, we just
know the majority of the cars are turning up Philly and turning
left on Elm and heading toward Dallastown to bypass
Dallastown. The issue becomes as Tom put it, is that what
we truly want to do. Personally with knowing about how many
people complained about traffic and speeding, because of the
amount of cars going up there, I don’t know if, I wouldn’t say
that they’re all speeding, but when you have three thousand
cars going on a road that is meant for five hundred cars, you’re
going to notice the speeding. Even if its just that two percent, just
like they do on Broad Street. The issue becomes do we want to
try and change and get the Main Street traffic back unto Main
Street. I think that. Councilman Allar said speeding is the
same criteria just like coming up Broad. So LTAP isn’t
going to do anything for Broad. Councilman Snyder said here’s
an issue where we’re trying to move an amount of cars back
unto Main Street. So I mean I’m looking at it as, we can go
through have Dana get the ARD, have a little letter put them
in their mailboxes or doors, and say this is what we’re proposing
by February 1st and see if we can’t get a target date contact
council if you have any concerns. I’m looking at it, if this is
a temporary thing, if we can reverse it, give it a year and see
what problems come up with it. In a years time we can work
on Dallastown, see if they’re willing to work on their end. And
then if not, then we find out what you’re saying we find that
traffic ends up backing up the worse we do is reverse the
pattern. That’s the worse that happens. Councilman Allar said
make sure you contact everyone that is going to be affected
by this, both sides of Philadelphia, on Main. Councilman
Snyder said technically its anybody on Main. Councilman
Allar said I’m concerned with their ability to be able to park
where they want to park without making a hardship for our
own citizens. Councilman Snyder said for the most part, the
people right there on Philly and the few people on Main Street
that utilize Cherry Alley, they can go up Newton, Newton and
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 19
Philly isn’t that far away. Councilman Noll asked so what’s your
solution, a one way down? Councilman Allar said I’ll tell you,
its going to affect the people on Dennison apartments. Councilman
Noll said the only thing I worry about is, the site distances and
the other things like that, once you realize it’s a one way street, its
too late. It’s a concern I have. I’m very in favor of the stop sign but
they won’t let us do that. I see a lot of problems with the one way,
I understand why you want to do it, I just see problems. With the
houses you have very little width, how do you post that effectively
that they know that they are now entering a one way turn. Mr.
Shearer said post signs out on Main Street both ways, no right
turn and no left turn. And do not enter signs at the intersection
itself. Councilman Crull said we have had this situation for thirty
or thirty five years, and I will not vote to change it any other way
than the way it is now. I lived there for fifteen or twenty years.
I know what kind of problem it is for people on Elm Street and
the people living there out at the apartments, a lot of people
live out there. Councilman Noll said I agree with the same way,
if we could have gotten a stop sign the other way. I think we’re
asking for a lot of other problems, that we can’t anticipate.
Mayor Sanford said the alternative coming from York/ Dallastown
is to make your left at Walnut Street rather than at Pleasant, come
down Walnut instead of going out that way if you are at the apartments.
Councilman Snyder said I was just looking at it, because we have
all this traffic going up there. Ever since I’ve been on council, we have
repaved that street twice. Of all the roads, Broad Street probably hasn’t
been repaved since I’ve been on council and we repaved that section
twice because we have half of Main Street going up Elm Street. Its
just a matter of time, talk about safety. It’s a matter of time, three
bus stops up in there, and having those apartments and those sidewalks.
It’s a matter of time. Because you can’t keep putting Main Street
traffic on a road that’s not meant for Main Street traffic until someone
gets hurt. Councilman Allar said we could put a weight limit on it,
like we have out here. Councilman Noll said that would push traffic
up further, and that’s even worse site distance trying to get out at that
stop sign with those apartments. Its hard, with the cars parked. Councilman
Snyder said I’m trying to get them to go straight up Main Street. Councilman
Noll said I know but I’m saying a lot of people would just move up a street
too. Councilman Snyder said at that time, they already got to stop. The only
reason they are going through here, is because they don’t have to stop, its
straight through right up to Tom’s in Dallastown. Once they have to stop,
then they’re going to stop where they have the best site distance. Because
true, on Third St. and Fourth Street, you don’t have very good site distance.
On Philly, there’s no stop. Mr. Shearer said I think there will be some overflow
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 20
traffic going onto the street up there. My concern of the overflow traffic
on one of those streets, is cause they are, back streets, where you will
receive an increase, and they’ll be blowing the stop sign. The stop sign
won’t slow it down. You will see more rolling stops than good stops.
Mayor Sanford said that is hard to do, stop on Pleasant, with cars
they have to stop. Councilman Allar said on Broad Street, Dennison
apartments, they don’t pay attention. Mayor Sanford said with the
late hour, we sit on this for thirty days. Councilman Snyder said we
don’t have to, Ron’s saying he’s not in favor of it, Tom’s not in favor,
Seth’s not in favor of it. That’s at least three to two at this count and
Barry hadn’t said one way or the other. Councilman Myers said I don’t
think there is a good answer for it because I do remember when there
was a stop sign going up the hill and I’d like to see that but. Councilman
Noll said I agree there is a problem. Councilman Snyder said originally,
and I don’t think Bubb would go for that, was rearranging the stop signs
again, to stop Philly and let Elm go straight through. The reason that was
changed originally was because Ron was bringing it up, when I first
was on council about the people speeding, then it was a speed issue of
people coming from Walnut the whole way straight up. Unfortunately,
what that did, for every car, there is an affect, yeah we took care of the
speeders but now we now increased three fold the volume of traffic
on Elm. I personally rather like to have the speeders back, having two
hundred cars on Elm and maybe ten percent of them speeding, twenty
speeding cars versus 5,000 cars a day now going up Elm Street. And
literally when I am sitting out there and I can see these cars making
that right hand turn and I know for a fact and I’ve sat here on council
twice since I’ve been on council, we’ve had to pave those two streets,
cause those streets don’t hold up. Yeah rather, get the stop sign back
on Philly and open up Elm. Councilman Noll asked he definitely won’t
let us take those two down and make that a stop sign. Councilman Allar
said even if he would, he said that was a problem in itself. So that’s
why he took it out, and we go back to that, knowing that is going to
be a problem. Doesn’t matter if he approves it or not. Mrs. Crull said
it worked until the school decided they wanted those stop signs put
up. Councilman Allar said whomever wanted them. Councilman
Snyder said at this point it’s a dead issue.
Side- Mr. Shearer said my next favorite issue, sidewalks. I think we should
walks put sidewalks on Elm Street, I think we should put sidewalks on every
street in the town along with curbing. Councilman Noll asked does
our ordinance say we can enforce that? Councilman Allar said the
citizens won’t be happy about that. Mr. Shearer said don’t get me
started, I have just as much of sidewalk in this town as anybody,
I have to shovel it after I plow it. Don’t get me started on this.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 21
Councilman Allar said there are going to be some people out there that
are going to say, hey I can’t barely make it now, you’re going to ask me
for $12,000.00 more to put a sidewalk in, I’m just going to leave, vacate
the house. We got to be careful on these issues. Like we said last month,
safety is an issue. We said the district court justice, leans over to the
defendant, unless you take a safety issue into them, probably have a lot
of legal costs with going after them. Councilman Noll said where do
you see the need for sidewalks, a certain target area? Mr. Shearer said
I think we should have sidewalks on Elm Street, there are school buses
there. Already commented that, that’s a problem. I think there should
be sidewalks leading to the park. Kind of, amazes me, that we have
a park but we don’t have sidewalks to get there. I think that would be
a way to go there to get recreation. Councilman Allar said again if its
tied to safety, more comfortable with it. A lot of these people are just
going to ignore us or defy us, we’re going to have people in all kind of
legal things and running up the bill for Pete. Then we’re going to lose
in district court, if we don’t have a safety issue to pertain too. Mr.
Shearer said we’re an urban area, how can sidewalks in a urban area
be a safety issue? Councilman Allar said tell that to the judge.
Councilman Noll said is there grants, then it becomes the responsibility
in the grants. Councilman Snyder said we could, we by passed, with
the CDBG grants, maybe we can get this comp plan thing going. We
can get some of these other grants. I know Glen Rock got a million
dollars to put in sidewalks. The only thing we have available right now
is the CDBG and like the park thing. It always seems that one thing,
that they ear mark. We had Main Street on to get re do sidewalks,
Penna. Avenue. We already did Broad Street. Councilman Myers said
I thought we put in for some more. Councilman Snyder said no,
we are sort of stymied with the CDBG right now. Councilman Noll
said I agree with you Dana, I think if we can get a grant opportunity
and see anything out there, where we can get an in or force them
to maintain it with perpetuity. Councilman Snyder said I think with Dana,
if I was hearing correctly, you weren’t talking the borough putting them
in, force the homeowners to put them in under the ordinance. Mr. Shearer
said I think we need to figure out which way you want to go but I truthfully
think over the past hundred years that, the borough has done itself a disservice
by not enforcing putting sidewalks in, into these residential areas that they’ve
allow to develop. This area over here, up off of Wilson Court, there are a lot
of areas in there where there isn’t a sidewalks. This street here, we’re increasing
the cut through traffic on this street because of the signal. We’re starting to
get people who cut through High then Maple, or who cut through Yoe Drive
to Maple. So through this stretch there should be sidewalks. There is a school
bus stop up here, kids walking down through the middle of the street.
Councilman Noll asked how do we consider the ordinance for sidewalks?
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 22
Councilman Snyder said any public street. Councilman Noll said so if you
own a corner lot. Councilman Snyder said the whole thing. Mr. Shearer
read from the ordinance book, the borough of Yoe may require owners
of property abutting on any street, including state highways, to construct,
pave, repave or repair the sidewalk,curb, gutter along said property at
such grades and under such regulations as may be described by the
borough of Yoe engineer. Ordinance 8-1894, as revised by ordinance
93-002. Councilman Myers said is it that right, did I miss something?
Mr. Shearer said it says along any street including state highways.
Councilman Myers said alright. I agree, I believe in sidewalks, I
always have but the problem is before we address citizenry we have
our own sidewalks to take care of. We have this here, up to the park.
Councilman Noll said I agree 100% we need it, the question is how
do we do it to meet the least resistance. We need to get serious about
it and look for money to do it themselves. Councilman Myers said
the one thing I do think we should be doing is sidewalks that are
currently out there, we should make sure that they are safe. Mr.
Shearer asked what do you need to know, sorry I had to step
out last month when you had that conversation. You wanted to
know, does the curbing have to be separate from the sidewalk?
Yes. The state requires an eighteen inch curb with an 8 inch
reveal. Ten inches below the grade of the street and 8 inches
above it. That is currently the standard but we also apply through
the borough according the engineering drawings provided to me
by the state. If you would install a curb, it would be eight inches.
Then a separate sidewalk. Then you either apply a grass strip,
that would be tight up against. We are by borough code, our
ordinances, state rules, we can have them fix any sidewalk that
needs to be fixed as stated early as concerning the state road
project, the start date is April 20th, tentative. They got there
notice to proceed, had a meeting here last month up in Harrisburg,
got the notice, when the warm weather starts they’re going to be
on it. So we’re really kind of up against the wall now to try to
I think, maybe to get them to fix the stuff out there before this
project begins. Councilman Allar said is this for paving? Mr.
Shearer said this is to mill and overlay. PENN DOT does not,
they include sidewalks in the project, when they have to, and
generally look at the municipalities to be the responsible
parties for that. There looking at 24 and 124, the widening
project up there, any sidewalks that get put in that area,
from my understanding, they’re looking to York and Windsor
Township to cough up the funding. They’re include them in
projects only where there is street would deem necessary because
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 23
of a large pedestrian volume. Councilman Allar said next year,
once we use CDBG for the park, we might get sidewalk money.
Dallastown got $100,00 for sidewalks, and another $100,000 for
stand by. Mr. Shearer said I get a lot of phone calls from people
about fixing the edge of the street. Councilman Noll said we
have a lot of money to put in pipes in, we could put sidewalks
up at the park, to divert that water into the inlets, keep the street
from washing away. Councilman Snyder said I think Dana gave
us a lot to think about, as far as requiring people to put in sidewalks.
Personally right now, this is a personal thing, I wouldn’t require
anyone to put in a sidewalk in now, its in the middle of winter,
concrete. I would say put them in starting in the spring. The only
issue we do have to address is, if we’re going down this road, like
Barry said, do we make these people that are going to be impacted
by the Main Street project, if that is going to start in April. We’re
behind the eight ball there. Mayor Sanford said I brought this
up months ago. Councilman Snyder said my personal opinion is,
if you only have to do sidewalk repair, they can do that without
ripping up the street because its two separate pieces. I think the only
thing we need to put someone on notice is if there is curbing that
would need to be repaired. Mr. Shearer said we could probably
patch the curb, that’s what I intend to do. Mayor Sanford said
the worse section I think is from Broad Street around the corner
to Penna. Avenue. on the south side or the east side. Mr. Shearer
said as a matter of policy, I probably shouldn’t be the person who
is inspecting the sidewalk. I have to patch some of them. Councilman
Snyder said we can always have Dan come through, he’s our
enforcement officer anyways. Mr. Shearer said the way our ordinance
is written, it actually puts it in Jason’s hands. Dan would probably
be cheaper to use than Jason. Councilman Noll said I agree, we
might want to look at doing this, have them repair. Mayor Sanford
said have them repair. Councilman Allar said I think that’s where
you start, if you have a dangerous situation you have the basis to
cite them and would probably win in district court. Mayor Sanford
said and if you have a trip or fall hazard. Councilman Allar said we
have tort immunity. Councilman Snyder said that’s the thing, you
weren’t on council when we put in the sidewalks on Broad and Main,
my opinion then was, it’s the property owners responsibility to
fix their sidewalks, we need to go after the property owner. Once
the borough made that commitment and put in sidewalks, on Broad
Street and Main Street, my attitude became then I can’t in good
conscience tell you or you to fix your sidewalk. How can we give
it to one section and not another? Now I feel the borough needs
to look for grants or whatever and we need to fix everyone else’s
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 24
sidewalk that needs to be fixed, that’s just my personal opinion.
Its just a pet peeve I had, because I didn’t think we should have
gone down that road to begin with because I can’t in good
conscience tell you to fix yours when we fixed someone elses
because they just happened to be in a block. Councilman Noll
said now they are responsible to maintain those. Councilman
Snyder said yes. Councilman Noll said in my opinion, go
after them. Councilman Snyder said that’s fine. Councilman
Myers said we still have to do our deed, I understand where
you’re coming from and I know how we did it the last time,
but when you have bad sidewalk that can be tripped over, what’s
your duty to that person and that sidewalk. If we want to go
that route. Why do we have an ordinance if we’re not going to
do anything about it? Councilman Snyder said my attitude has
always been as far as the safety issue, if someone trips over
the sidewalk, you have the right to sue that property owner.
Councilman Allar said the borough. Councilman Snyder said
you just said we’re immune from it. Councilman Noll said
we’re not protected from it. Councilman Allar said I agree if
it’s a safety situation, I think we have ever right to go after
them. Councilman Noll made a motion to go out and enforce
starting March 1st, do the walk, identify and cite the property
owners and have them fix them. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Allar. In favor: Councilman Myers, Councilman
Crull. Against motion: Councilman Snyder. Councilman Snyder
said I feel we should be going after the money, if it takes
fifteen years to get sidewalks replaced. Councilman Allar said
I think we should try to do that, but if there is a safety issue.
Councilman Snyder said with as many of the elderly and the
low income that we have, unless it’s a rental property, that
someone is there to make money on it, I just have a problem
with it. I think we need to making conscience efforts, especially
when we don’t have sidewalks here ourselves, I think we need
to make a conscience effort to replace the sidewalk. Once we
started that, we need to replace them.
Limb Mr. Shearer said up at the park, we had a limb come down and pull
down the electrical service coming into the building and fried the
power supply to the cameras. So I had Choice Security, John
uses at the school, also a reference from York Area Regional,
I called them to come in a fix it. At the current time, we haven’t
had power so I’m trying to get them to get a power source. Tom
got in contact with another outfit to get pricing to see about more
cameras about the park. Councilman Noll said if you have any
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 25
problems let me know.
Rail Mr. Shearer said I had a rail trail meeting. We will be looking at the public
Trail meetings after the new year. They want to have one large public meeting
after Christmas. So more to come.
Nov. Mr. Shearer said on the 19th I’m going to a public works terrorism seminar
19th at HACC. Part of the South Central Regional Task Force.
Nov. Mr. Shearer said since today is holiday if you don’t have any objection
28th I will be taking my holiday November 28th which is the day after
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Snyder said I looked over it, its mostly citations, follow
ups and letters.
He does have August report and he also has follow ups as to closing
things up. Anything else for the zoning officer?
Emergency Management Report
Mayor Sanford reported we received the two portables and are still waiting
two more payment. Do you want to pay some this year and next year? The secretary
said I need an invoice.
Mayor and Police Report
Mayor Sanford said York Area Regional Police reported the following for
September. There were 17 calls, no accidents, 54 traffic citations, 4 misdemeanor
felony arrests, and 1 juvenile arrest. Operating hours 56.25 and administrative hours
of 30.80. Councilman Allar asked where were most of the traffic citations from?
Mayor Sanford said George, George and Main are the two targeted.
? Councilman Snyder said one question from budget, that we didn’t have the
answer to. The reason our fines were increased were because of that grant
money that regional had received. Do you know if they received anything
for this year? Mayor Sanford said the program we have now is just about
ready to end, I don’t, I’ll have to ask if there is another program. Councilman
Snyder said because we did bump down estimated fines but, we didn’t know
if that was still an option for us. Mayor Sanford said okay.
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 26
Corr- Mayor Sanford, said for correspondence, I’ll pass this around, this is
espond the program booklet from the American Red Cross Heroes. The officers
I nominated won the award. It was a nice breakfast.
YCBA Mayor Sanford said the YCBA’s program from the annual dinner.
Waugh Mayor Sanford said I received some correspondence from Mike Waugh,
regarding community development planning, which for us is Nov. 17th.
I am not able to attend.
Other Mayor Sanford said the other correspondence that I got was from a young
lady doing a project, trying to get some research on ordinances regarding
sex offenders. I did not act on that, I simply place that in the file.
Councilman Snyder said Pete did act on that by the way. Because that
was request under the right to know act and freedom of information, felt
that he needed to respond. Basically gave them the information to contact
the police department, they’re the ones that have that information.
Elect Mayor Sanford said as the police representative, I need to get the ballot
out for the alternate police commissioner that should be going out in
the next five days or so. There are three people running, Mayor
Frutiger from Red Lion, Mayor Scott from Dallastown and myself.
Closed The secretary reported that the office will be closed November 28.
Train Councilman Snyder said Borough officials Training and Updates, anybody
interested in going please leave Sandy know. I didn’t see where the deadline
was to set that up. The closest one that I saw was probably in Daulphin
County, January 17th.
YBSA Councilman Snyder said we received information from the Yoe Borough
Sewer Authority giving us the latest outstanding invoices for sewer and
municipal service fees. I only had one comment, which I just happened
to know about, I didn’t know if we needed to contact them about this
Chad Boltz, 187 S. Main Street. He’s only two quarters in arrears but
I noticed there is a sheriff’s sale notice on the door, set for December 8th.
We need to get a lien on that, so it makes it to that sheriff’s sale.
The secretary said there is another update that I just received on Monday.
Councilman Snyder said then we are updated until 10/31/2008. It just
says $377.50 due by 12/ 3/08. The secretary will call Jan Kreidler and
leave a message.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 27
Letter Councilman Snyder said the letter was sent out to Bethlehem United
Methodist Church informing them that park won’t be open for their
use this year.
Bal. Councilman Snyder said we received our balance sheet for September
Sheet 30,2008 from Sandy as treasurer. Anybody with any questions, please
look that over, get back to her in the next. The secretary said you also
got all the copies of the quarterly bank statements too. Councilman
Snyder said as you recall that is one of the checks and balances from
the auditors that we’re suppose to be going over.
Notice Councilman Snyder said notice was also in your packet from the
treasurer based on information asked by Councilman Noll as far
as interest rates on the PLGIT accounts. That information was
handed out for your information.
Train Councilman Snyder said the secretary and myself attended a
training session for DCED and PENN DOT on their e filing and
dot grants this past Friday. It was very interesting, I think I already
mentioned about how we’re probably not doing our budget the best
way, with this structured deficit. Councilman Allar said PEL may
be able to help. Councilman Snyder said they may be able to shed
some light on this. Councilman Allar said by the way, the $15,000.00
we have to come up with, if we use the formula that was used for
the comp plan cost, even though its $75,000.00, we only have to
come up with $1500.00. Councilman Snyder said that’s doable.
Park Councilman Noll said about the park. We feel we can run the
rentals the entire summer. We might have to block off some
areas with snow fence while the general contractor is in there.
Councilman Snyder said when you are talking the entire summer
is that September and October rentals that she has. Councilman
Noll said yes, the only thing I would not do, is during the week
for anything but basically Friday night, Saturday and Sunday.
Councilman Allar asked, is Gail definitely on board again?
Councilman Snyder said she would give us, the church was the
big thing. She sounded promising, she said she’d get back to me.
She wanted to hear what we were going to do and how that
would impact her monetarily wise and when I was telling her
all this stuff. If you recall in her original letter, she wanted $300.00
to continue taking on the reservations. She didn’t want that. I think
she is on board. The whole problem with her was the church. Councilman
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 28
Allar asked but she hasn’t gotten back? Councilman Snyder said
I’m suppose to get back to her when I found out what the status
is on the rentals. Now I can get back to her and say all the rentals
are a go. Correct? Councilman Noll said yes.
Grant Councilman Noll said I attended the grant writing seminar and got a lot
Write of good information to help us. There were a lot of people, about 250 to
300 of us. The biggest thing we’re going to see is that there is little
government money but more private money for over time.
YCSW Councilman Snyder said a notice from York County Solid Waste, York
County residents can recycle electronic equipment on Saturday January
10th, 9:AM until 2PM at the Yard Waste Transfer facility at Flower Mill
Road in West Manchester Township. Residents may bring up to 3 of each
type of electronic equipment, example is 3 computers, 3 printers, not
just three items total. There is no fee for residents to participate and the
residents are responsible for removal of all personal data that goes
on the computer’s hard drive. Businesses and other non profit entities
are not eligible to participate.
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder said with the addition of Pete’s bill of $2486.25. A motion
was made by Councilman Allar to pay the bills as listed with the addition of
Pete’s bill. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
A motion was made by Councilman Crull to adjourn the meeting at 11:08PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor.