YOE BOROUGH PG. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on July 7, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council Vice President Barry Myers at 7:01PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Members in Attendance:
Barry Myers
George Howett
Bruce Manns
Tom Allar
Seth Noll
Others in attendance:
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
John Sanford, Mayor
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Steve Malesker, Engineer
David Naylor, Resident
Minutes
Councilman Myers asked has everyone gone over the minutes from June. If so can I have
a motion to approve them. Any corrections or changes or anything? A motion to accept the meeting minutes of June 2, 2009 by Councilman Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor.
Visitors
Councilman Myers said I have no visitors however. Dave Naylor said from 93 E.
Pennsylvania Avenue, I don’t know if this is premature. I’d liked to express my
interest in filling out the remainder of Ronnie Crull’s term on council. I want to
offer that to you and have you consider for that. I understand that I would have to
abstain myself from the alley situation. I want to offer my time. Councilman
Myers said I haven’t heard of anyone else interested in it. Do we have sixty days
to do that? Mayor Sanford said next month. Councilman Manns said thirty days,
this has come up before. Councilman Myers said if we don’t do it, the county will
do it for us. Councilman Allar said that’s the thing, if we don’t do it , then they
will appoint. Councilman Myers said can we figure it out, how long does it take,
Visitors(cont.) Page 2
its more than thirty days. The secretary said Councilman Crull died May 12th.
Councilman Myers said June 12th is thirty days. Has anyone expressed interest that you know. The secretary said I haven’t gotten anyone contact us. Councilman Noll asked
did we ever advertise that in the paper, this position. Councilman Allar said Sam said
he was going to do it. Councilman Noll said that’s why. Councilman Myer said we’ve
got it in the minutes, so it doesn’t matter, its covered in the minutes. We have nobody
else. The secretary said the questions. Are you a registered voter, have you resided in
the borough, and he is a Republican? Doesn’t a Republican have to fill a Republican’s
seat? Mr. Naylor said yes. Solicitor Solymos said I think we ought to get a registration
to confirm that, so we don’t muddy the waters. The registration we ought to do that.
The secretary asked just call in to the county election board? Solicitor Solymos said
the county election board. We did have a Democrat go for a Republican seat in another
municipality. Councilman Allar said I don’t have a problem, just being consitent.
Councilman Myers asked who was replaced, I replaced since Alta passed away.
Councilman Allar said Seth would have been the last one. The secretary said Seth was
the last one, he took Karen Bowser’s place. Councilman Myers said why don’t we
do it this way, we can make a motion to appoint him. As soon as I get home, I have
the voter registration at home for Yoe Borough, I can check. Unless we run into a
problem. The secretary said he will be sworn in next month. Councilman Myers said
he would sworn in next month. Mr. Naylor said its my understanding that Ronnie’s seat is up for re election in November. Councilman Myers said yes. I don’t. Councilman Noll asked does he have to run in this cycle or wait until next cycle. Solicitor Solymos said
I don’t know off the top of my head, but I can tell you tomorrow. Mayor Sanford said
when I was appointed in October I ran in the November election. I was on the ballot.
The secretary asked did you have to go through the same procedures as everyone else,
get the petition signed. Councilman Myers said call down to the voters tomorrow,voters
registration, talk to Nicky, she’s the director. I don’t remember her last name. She’ll
be able to tell you what you have to do. It could be a case if not enough people ran,
we would have to reappoint you in January for the position. Don’t quote me on that, I’m
not quite sure how that works. I know you had a write in, but I didn’t see if you had enough write ins. Mr. Naylor said I don’t think I had enough write ins. Councilman Myers said it was just me to get on the ballot. The secretary said according to voter
registration, you’re the only one that is a write in for November because you had
enough write ins. You have to get so many to get on. Councilman Myers said tell her
you’re going to get sworn in next month by borough council here. And then what happens at the end of the year. And I’ll call down and do the same thing but its
better to here from her. Mr. Naylor said at voter registration. Councilman Myers said
yes. The secretary said its under York County Government. Councilman Myers said
on the York County website, its under voter registration. Councilman Manns said
the office is down in the basement of the old court house. Councilman Myers said
she is really to work with. So next month. A motion was made by Councilman
Allar to appoint David Naylor to the borough council seat of Ronald Crull. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Myers said so be it.
You’re welcome to stay now too. The secretary said she will send Mr. Naylor the minutes
Visitors(cont.) Page 3
next month so you will be prepared.
Solicitor Solymos said while we have Mr. Naylor here, lets talk about what he was
here for last month for. I talked to Mr. Campbell, I indicated I would, he said he hadn’t heard from you, didn’t know what his marching orders were. Since he had talked to me
about the situation, and about what was previous to last month, ethically I can’t be
dealing with you individually when I’m dealing with a lawyer. So whatever you want
to, however you want to proceed, understand that you ought to borough council, and
advise that you have another attorney, you are going to use Mr. Campbell or you are
proceeding on your own. And indicate what you are proposing to what you want to have done, and cost if any you are proposing to assume so that the municipality doesn’t have incur any legal fees or other filing costs and so forth, to accomplish the vacation of the
alley. I think, please quote me correct if I’m wrong, folks, I don’t think anyone said here, that they would indisposed to the likelihood of vacating the alley but they weren’t ready
to move until we had heard that Mr. Campbell on your behalf or otherwise. Is that an
accurate statement. Mr. Naylor said I believe so, yes. Solicitor Solymos said okay. Understand once that you are on borough council, you will have to refute yourself on any dicussions about that alley. Mr. Naylor said absolutely. Solicitor Solymos said okay.
Mr. Naylor said he should have been in contact with you, I talked to him the other day.
Solicitor Solymos said I have been in the hospital but I’ve been back in the office for
about a week or so. I haven’t heard from him yet. Tell him to call me. And we’re work
on it. I will find out what, from a legal aspect and report back to him. Mr. Naylor said
thank you.
Solicitor’s Report
Report Solicitor Solymos said well you have my report on Mr. Naylor.
Flood Solicitor Solymos said with regard to the flood plain ordinance.
Plain We got a letter, instructing us that someone show up at the planning
Ordinance commission tonight. To address some concerns that the York County
Planning Commission had. But the letter didn’t say what concerns
they had. We didn’t get any comments. So that C. S. Davidson could
address those comments ahead of time. So I don’t know what is going
on with the luck of the municipality lately, we’ll probably be 90th
on the agenda and then Sam will be out of there at 11:30. Maybe
we’ll be first and maybe he’ll be back before this meeting is over.
Appeal Solicitor Solymos said you authorized me to appeal, if I thought
of it was appropriate, I think it was your idea to lean towards an
the appeal of the zoning hearing board decision. I can’t appeal a
Zoning decision until the decision is handed down, no finding of facts of
Solicitor’s Report(Cont.) Page 4
Hearing conclusion of law have been filed as of today’s date. However I was
Board to give you this message from Mr. Buzzendore, he won’t be calling
you back since he talked to me. He is waiting for Patty to review
and sign the findings and facts which he claims are completed.
The secretary said you know we have forty five days and Monday
was thirty eight. Solicitor Solymos said he claims he has until
the eleventh or thirteenth. The secretary asked so Sunday is not
counted. Solicitor Solymos said no Sunday is not counted. The
secretary said excuse me, Sam was here we counted with Sunday
because we were not sure. Solicitor Solymos said you get the
extra day. The secretary said you said that would be the eleventh of
July, did you say. Solicitor Solymos said that would be the thirteenth.
The secretary said the thirteenth of July. Solicitor Solymos said I
certainly would like to have it found by the tenth, and I would ask
if you could get ahold of Patty so you could find out. I also told him,
told him to send the findings and facts to the zoning officer. And.
The secretary said I sent an email out to Dan, and he didn’t get back
to me. Solicitor Solymos said just say, the signed copy can be reviewed
at the municipal building and then he at least has it out in the forty
five days. The secretary said I sent an email to Dan on Monday, as of
today I did not have an email back from him. Solicitor Solymos said
and that is what he said to tell you, getting back to you through me.
I talked to him this morning. The secretary said does Sam know this?
Solicitor Solymos said no. The secretary said I will talk to him tomorrow.
I will call Dan Shaw tomorrow to see if he has it. Solicitor Solymos said
and if not, have Dan at least get his, he’s got it done for someone to sign.
I assume he wants someone to read it and make sure he has it down the
way they wanted it. But, we’re getting very close to a deadline here.
The secretary said I know. Sam left a message with Mr. Buzzendore
two weeks ago. Solicitor Solymos said he gets exactly what he wants, if
he doesn’t get a decision by the forty fifth day. Which means, what is
concern here, you have two concerns, one what they did and two even
if its alright with what they did, what was the nature and the extent of
the condition they put on. And are those conditions appropriate. So that
has to be resolved.
New Solicitor Solymos said and last but not least, we are forging together
Date now to get a new date for the Chronister hearing.
for the
Chronister
Hearing
Flowers Solicitor Solymos said I want to thank you all for the flowers, I truly
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 5
appreciate it. As I said to some of you, I haven’t felt this
good in ten months, I don’t know why I didn’t step up.
To do something, rather than put myself down the tube.
Thinking they didn’t know what they were doing. Thank
you for all your thoughts, I genuinely appreciate it.
Reidel The secretary said I am suppose to bring up to you that
Check Mr. Reidel has not cashed his dollar check as of the May
bank statement. Solicitor Solymos said okay, he’s still got
it, it wasn’t returned.
Uncertified Councilman Noll said you had asked me to look into an
Building uncertified building conditions, this was brought a couple
months ago. This was request that Red Lion had made.
And I want to pass this around, this is the language that
Red Lion is using in their final draft. What it has to do with,
Dan had concerns that he would have no way to look at
uncertified building the way the zoning ordinance was written
for the borough. I’m going to pass around two other documents
to you. One is a copy of what it means to be an uncertified
building, out of the state UCC, the uniformed construction
code that was adopted by the State of Pennsylvania. And the
second document that has administration written on the top
of it, further explains that this is what the AIA, looks at when
it looks at an uncertified building, they’re interpretation by
the architect association. And both of these documents pretty
much say the same thing. And co berate, I read through everything
in the Uniform Construction Code, what he would like us to look
out, turning into an ordinance and in my opinion, I don’t see
anything wrong at all wrong with it. And it actually gives us a lot
of ground to stand upon with the state basically puts down as law.
It just gives an another to enforce it. My recommendation would
be to look at, making it an ordinance. Solicitor Solymos said I would
need a motion to review it, make a draft for you guys have something
to look at. And then we can move to adopt it. Councilman Noll said
I make a motion that our solicitor look at the code enforcement as
brought by Red Lion Borough, for us to make an ordinance and
the legal ramifications of it and your recommendations of it to
ready that for adoption. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Allar. All in favor. Councilman Myers said so be it.
Members Councilman Allar said Pete, last month we had a presentation from
1st Members 1st Credit Union. I’m not clear but there was something that
you needed to look at, or something that Sandy would get. I think
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 6
there was an issue of whether or not it was legal to deposit with it.
Solicitor Solymos said I didn’t think there was a problem with
it. They would going to give you more information. The secretary
said I gave them a copy of it with their minutes. There was a letter
sent and I faxed it over to your office. Solicitor Solymos said I didn’t have a problem with it. Councilman Allar said their interest rate is
four times what PLGIT. The secretary said I think it would be a good
idea to start out with the transfer of the PLGIT accounts rather
than shipping everything, at first. I don’t have a problem with as long
as we don’t have a problem with that. Councilman Allar said the only
thing we need to discuss at some point once the account is set up,
is what do we want to put into it. There is no point of talking about it
right now, because the interest rates change all the time. Whatever is
appropriate, I guess she needs to come back and make the decision,
based on the time frame, on how we are going to need the money and
what interest rates are. The secretary said get her recommendations on
for each account what each is best. Councilman Allar said we need
her recommendation and with us, do we want to lock it up for six months
or, on this account. I don’t remember all what it was, but some of them
had some very short rates, over 2%. The secretary said she was pushing
the nine month CD because she thought would be, a good one for you
to have. That was the one, you can get the money out any time you need
it. That was a 2. something. Councilman Allar said the best of both
worlds. Councilman Myers said that’s the one I was most interested
in, especially right now. Councilman Allar said our rate is only like .5
right now. Councilman Myers said you want to talk to her about that.
Councilman Allar said first thing, is that agreement, do you want to
make a motion. Councilman Allar made a motion that Sandy do
whatever administrative that necessary for the PLGIT accounts, in
in turn open up an account, at least get us on file. And at the next
meeting have Melody to come to meeting to let us know where
we can start and put the money into the accounts. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Flagger Councilman Myers said one other thing for Pete. He can review.
Force Flagger Force, those people out there with the Stop Signs that say
stop, go, that kind of stuff. Dana wants to have a contract with them,
in case there is something that he would definitely use flaggers,
like to work with the fire company, fire police, three at a time.
Get the contract signed, it doesn’t commit us to anything, if
something would come up with an emergency. So he could get that.
Without having issues. I would like you to review this contract for
next month. It is pretty plain just looking at it. Councilman Noll asked
is it hourly or, if there is overtime? Councilman Myers said there is
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 7
some overtime, holidays and stuff like that. I was told there was another
company, I don’t know who it is other than Flagger Force. Mr. Shearer
said Area Wide. Councilman Myers asked did get prices from both.
Mr. Shearer said I sent them an email but they didn’t respond. Councilman
Noll said we use them pretty regularly. Councilman Myers asked if you
can give us your opinion. Anything else for the solicitor?
Open Councilman Noll said I have another thing, I’m not 100% sure that this
Records falls under solicitor but, I just want to make you aware of this. Going
to the Municipal Managers meeting, get everybody up to speed, York
Township is having a horrendous battle of which some of you may know,
with the open records law. They have spent literally thousands of dollars
on one in particular, but two people. And recently they were told basically
to stop everything that they are doing, pertaining records. They back the
computer system everyday, they can’t erase anything. Important files are
saved as a safe file, are saved every time. Can’t destroy anything.
Specifically things that we may want to think about. They have gone
towards emails for business, that all are distributed have to go through
York Township because of the order they were given, this is just some
experts that Elizabeth was able to give us to show, this is what came in
from the lawyer as one. Person is asking for a lot of those types of things.
They have been literally shut down. Some of the municipalities are going
to the point where there are doing bare bones minutes. Apparently this
could affect us. They are telling us, and York Township and even the
Board of Commissioners, if they make a note on something that is
handed out in the packet, they have to keep all those records. Because
those can be subpoenaed. Personal computers could be subpoenaed,
records off of those your personal computers. Solicitor Solymos said
email between Tom and John, Barry and Sam. Councilman Noll said
I just wanted you to be aware. It is extremely scary. Some of the
things they are able to do right now. York Township is going to be
a sample case for the state, unfortunately. She said its well under
$20,000.00. So. Councilman Myers said it could break a small
borough. Councilman Noll said there are some people out there with
that intent. Anti government, anti establishment. This is way or a tool,
that they’re finding out so. I don’t know if we should be doing anything
from a legal standpoint, do some changing on how we do things or
we should be looking at. Solicitor Solymos said right now I think
we’re doing right, we’re sending the email, we’re sending out the
information as we’re getting it from the state. We are keeping full
records and we’re deposing what people want. The bottom line is,
most of this is kept stuff. There isn’t a municipality where supervisors
borough council people, that were in touch with each other and thought
that was confidential between the two of them that they weren’t
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 8
doing business between the two of them. But its all over, every
municipality, you get people who have an axe to grind, they
have litigation with the municipality, and you get inundated
with requests. Its interesting, I know one municipality that
I still do some work for, got requests for records from six
different people living in one subdivision. What they did,
one person would come in and ask for all the records from
the municipality, then the second person would come in,
then the third person would come in and the fourth person
would come in. Once the third person came in, the second
person had gotten, they wouldn’t give it to them because
it was already given. Who knows where all this is going,
keep making it and making it? Councilman Allar asked
aren’t some of those costs reimbursable? Solicitor
Solymos oh yes some of them are absolutely. Councilman
Allar said not just printing costs? Councilman Myers said
all that you can charge is the cost of printing the paper.
That’s about it. Solicitor Solymos said in a small municipality,
you will drive. Once someone came in. Councilman Myers
said I don’t think we have a policy at all do we. Solicitor
Solymos said yeah we do. The secretary said I have two
requests so far, the people have filled out the right to know
paperwork and paid me the money. I’ve had very good
cooperation from the people. I archive the email just like
we discussed, I’m up to June 1st with my archiving. I’m
keeping the minute tapes for one year and then recording
over them, I’m not keeping every minute tape because the
minutes are done pretty much verbatim. If anybody has
a problem with that, I think right now it’s a good way to
go so you know what is all out there. I saw where North
Codorus is going bare bones and Mark Derr has been
hired by North Codorus and Joy Strausbaugh is leaving.
Councilman Allar asked what kind of requests? The
secretary said one of was an ordinance on noise and one
was minutes request and they were charged $.50 a page.
Councilman Allar said like before. The secretary said I
did make copies like that before that, but now they have
to fill out a request and I keep it on file. Councilman Myers
said I know one employee for the township, had 86 hours
wrapped up in that in one request, that’s crazy. Solicitor
Solymos said Seth, you probably know what is involved
better than I do. Councilman Noll said I was. Solicitor
Solymos said its an ongoing development, an ongoing
battle. Councilman Noll said yeah. I bring it up to everybody,
I don’t know if we want to consider anything. I know York
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 9
Township is going as far as to sign specific events to their
advisor via email, only hard core municipal business. And
the other thing is that they really, and I don’t know if we
want to take our minutes down to being more just a couple
of pages, in case it does ever come here. I mean it would
bankrupt or destroy our borough. I just want to make you
aware of it, I don’t know if we should take any official
precaution. Here you have York Township, with this,
a savvy municipality and this is crippling. And the tax payers,
I think they’ve done a smart thing, they put up on their website,
because it’s a public expense, that show who is making all
this expense. Councilman Myers said I didn’t see that. Mr.
Naylor said they were talking about making something. Councilman
Myers said I was just on the website and looking for that.
Councilman Noll said or they are getting ready to do that because
they want people to know who the tax dollars are being used.
Solicitor Solymos said I think that was one of the issues, because
they were fighting over the fact that, that should not be made
public. The people who wanted all the sunshine, didn’t want their
names put out there. I think that was one of the advisory committee
reports telling the municipality to do it. Councilman Noll said yeah.
Solicitor Solymos said that was my recollection. At this point I
think, you’re caught before a rock and a hard place. If you’re
in the middle of a pendulum swing, where its way up here and
it will come back in the middle because of abuses that occurred
when it was. The secretary said will there be any changes in the
laws since this is brand new, beginning January 1st of this year?
Will there be any updates? Solicitor Solymos said you will
be getting things, the borough associations will be updating
you on a regular basis. The secretary said I was wondering.
Solicitor Solymos said they will watch it like a hawk. Councilman
Noll said York Township is going to be a tested case. Solicitor
Solymos said and one of their newsletters will let you know what
is going on. Councilman Myers said they are, talking about their
law in Shrewsbury Township. Solicitor Solymos said one of the
things that they are thinking about doing is if a municipality
can establish that it is for vexation or harassment purposes only,
that they go after the people for damages, not only the cost but
the damages over and above the costs, semi punitive type of
damages for the harassment of the municipality. Councilman
Noll asked what is the criteria? Solicitor Solymos said that’s
the courts, I don’t think the legislature wants to touch that
with a ten foot pole, the court is going to have to make that
call. I see that coming. Councilman Noll said as Pete said, I think
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 10
a lot is going to change, unfortunately York Township is going
to have its legs kicked out from under it, they happen to be
the one, probably case law will come out of all these things.
And I may, one of the request, I ask Elizabeth what happened,
may have been denied. One of the requests were for a copy
of every email that happened within the municipality. Solicitor
Solymos said its interesting, over a year ago, we got an advisory
on that, and they are fighting the same battle. We didn’t know
we had to provide that. Councilman Noll said just be very
aware of it, I hope we don’t ever have to talk about it. But I just
wanted you to know what happened in other municipalities and
find out how Pete feels. The secretary said I’ll try to let you know
quarterly what kind of requests we had that way you guys are
aware of. When I do the bank statements, I’ll say I have two
requests for example one for this and one for that and if you need
to get ahold of me, I’ll update you on it. Everybody has been
very cooperative to me, so. I haven’t had any problem. Solicitor
Solymos said most of the requests are legitimate, but what’s
happening there I don’t know Seth. Is it the chickens coming
home to roost in the municipality. Councilman Noll said well,
there, I don’t know how much. I know a little more than I would
like to say tonight. I think its a lot of vendetta, the municipality
has played certain politics from their board, and people in the
municipality are basically getting even at this point. So. But
this law is written it allows them to make the requests. Solicitor
Solymos said from the legal standpoint, all I’ve got is a law.
I don’t have any additional interpretation of that law to give
us guidance as to where its going. Councilman Noll said no
fine line as to judicial purpose. Solicitor Solymos said exactly.
No challenges, so you can’t tell. Councilman Noll said I’m
sure its coming. Solicitor Solymos said oh yeah. Councilman
Myers asked anything else for Pete.
Engineer’s Report
Councilman Myers said next is engineer’s report. Let’s introduce ourselves
a bit. You know everybody. Have you met Bruce at all? Mr. Malesker said
tonight.
Dam Mayor Sanford said on the Dam Emergency Action Plan, I submitted
EAP late January. And they sent it back with numerous corrections . Mr.
Malesker said so you need original signatures from Dennis Sarpen.
Mayor Sanford said that’s what they’re telling me. Mr. Malesker said
I’m actually going to see him tomorrow night at the Dallastown Yoe
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 11
Water Authority meeting. I’m not sure what they want. Mayor
Sanford said I copied you specifically, exactly what they had
written there. It went through last time without that. I sent the
copy and updated the plan, maybe two years ago, there same
particular date edited this time that were not edited last time.
I made the other corrections, if you can help with that when
you get it back. Mr. Malesker said I’m just wondering what they
need Mr. Sarpen to sign, if he’s got a, if they want something
original document to make it work with the original signature.
Mayor Sanford said if you give me your card and tell me when
to call you tomorrow and I’ll give you the gentlman who reviewed
it. Councilman Myers said I really don’t think we should be
paying another engineering firm to make corrections on their
plan, that doesn’t make any sense to me. Mayor Sanford said I’d
like to get this handled and get this accepted with all the work
at the dam. I will like this corrected so I can send this back. Mr.
Malesker said I’ll be in all day tomorrow. Mayor Sanford said
this is the second time we sent it back so. Councilman Noll asked
said we do have the original signatures. The secretary said we
have the original in the box with the dam information.
Miti- Mr. Malesker said the big thing is the mitigation plan and I have
gation talked to Tom about that and we actually talked with Bob Miller
Plan of York Township. Seth was there too. They said, they told us
the area that they had mine, which is the Mill Creek Perserve which
is near the intersection of Chestnut Hill and Camp Betty Washington.
There is a parking lot that they put in now, there is a little wooden
bridge in that area. Jake Romig of ECCO Construction had applied
for a grant to put some wetlands there, which was unsuccessful,
to mitigate the wetlands in the area. So Tom went to the rec board
meeting, York Township Rec Board is actually the owners of that
property and from what I understand they don’t have issues with
using that area as mitigation as long as Yoe Borough pays for the
construction of the wetlands. We have an estimate of Jake said
it would cost. $7500.00 to $10,000.00 for the construction of the
wetlands. Councilman Noll said Tom went to the meeting and
got the approval of the wetland. Next Tuesday there is a meeting
before York Township, we unfortunately by letter that was
passed around last month, we are basically being told that we
have to provide them with a site or restore the wetlands within
the area we have now. According to that letter they really don’t
think its viable conditions for the conditions that exist at the
basin so. We are kind of in, between a rock and a hard place.
I’m almost positive that the York Township Board will approve
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 12
But when you start talking the $7500.00 to $10,000.00 for the
construction of the wetlands, we are also going to have to
do easement paperwork and additionally probably engineering
work that goes along with that, a survey of the area has to be
done, that has to put together, all those things along with the
easement documents which also have to be created. That will
probably involve some Pete’s time on the easement. They will
want to pay for the cost of that too so I want to prepare us to
do this, we could be more than $15,000.00. With legal and other
fees involved with this, all the paperwork that I mentioned, we
don’t have the money to do it but at the same point if we don’t
do it, we will be fined. Mr .Malesker said there is the monitoring
that you have to go by. Councilman Noll said we’ll have to pick
up that fee and that will be very similar to what was required for
the initial wetlands. The first two years, will be two visits per
year and I guess that will have to be determined by that plan
that is being written. The cost associated with that. The third,
fourth and fifth year it has to be monitored once per year and the
report sent in. The other thing that hasn’t been discussed, if for
some reason its washed out and the plant life destroyed we’re
responsible for new plant species. This is not a cheap thing.
Mr. Malesker said the fine is $27,500.00. I have it in the
engineer’s report, the scope of work C. S. Davidson will provide
to, they show response to the Army Corps mitigation, so phase
one is the submittal to DEP, where you select the site and they
basically have to approve it before you go through the easements
and all that, they have to approve the site and its .76 acres of
wetlands that have mitigated. So we will would be enlisted Jake
Romig’s help. And I basically went through and gave a pretty
detailed scope of services that we would provide, for Phase I,
get that submitted to DEP, our estimate is around $4600.00.
We would get everything submitted to DEP. Phase II would
to provide as built plans, the easement and monitoring that
engineering wise that will be close to $11,000.00 but that would
include the five years of monitoring that C. S. Davidson is
providing, monitoring and the yearly report. So we would provide
the yearly monitoring reports. The estimate is $11,061.00. Councilman
Noll asked for all five years? Mr. Malesker said for all five years.
That includes time to do the annual report and do the annual
inspection and the monitoring. Councilman Noll said and that won’t
be the $11,000.00 upfront what will over the five years. Mr. Malesker
said the biggest cost upfront, will be the as built surveying plan,
so that part alone is going to be $4000.00. Less than an acre.
So that gives you an idea of what the engineering costs are going to
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 13
be for the mitigation. Councilman Noll said you’re looking at $15,000.00
along with the land you’re looking at $25,000.00, eating up every bit
of money we have. Mr. Malesker said an then whatever time the solicitor
would have for the easement. Councilman Noll said probably another
$2500.00. So, all told, just under $30,000.00 to get the wetlands mitigated.
Mr. Malesker said within 120 days. You have to get the site selected,
construction the wetlands and all that. You have to get the process started.
Councilman Allar said there are some savings, don’t forget. We are looking
at working a deal with Red Lion. Doing some number crunching, that alone
would be saving of $20,000.00. Mr. Malesker said we called Abel Construction
and I think the estimate that Jason had assumed would be the dump site
I forget how many miles away it was going to be, but he assumed that wasn’t
going to be as close as Red Lion, that alone if it was in Red Lion, that would
save $20,000.00. Councilman Allar said in addition, if I can get the Corps
to clear it, Dana can get the Sheriff’s Department in there to clear it of
all the woody growth before we have any contact. That’s going to be
a savings. The third item is, Jason worked out the numbers that he
pulled from them, these numbers are holding up. We also got that
$11,000.00 from Ron Miller. Councilman Noll said the only correction
would be the way that the grants are written and the charge’s the way
letter is going out. We don’t know if DEP will issue until we get the
issues solved. That being said, can we use grant monies and all the
other things to pay for this? Councilman Allar said Miller’s money
can be used any way at all, absolutely no restrictions on that period.
As to the other municipalities, I feel can be used any way. There only
concern is that they don’t spend more money than in the agreement.
The Growing Greener money, the $50,000.00 at the state level, it
is going to be used, no maintenance, its going to have to be used
for engineering and construction of the dam out there as permissible.
The only restriction is that it can’t be used for the dredging up there.
In fact that is one of the restriction, even the money we have from
York County, whether it would be the intergovernmental money or
it would be the money that was added because other municipalities
didn’t do their fair share. Even that money doesn’t have any
restrictions. We have pretty much free rein. Councilman Noll said
that’s going to be a question from the commissioners as to, what
I was seeking tonight was for the commissioners is that, all this
being known by everybody, that I have the support basically for
the fact that we will pay for the construction and the fees associated
with the easement and what is required what is being required by
the Division of Dam Safety, I don’t know if that has to be in form
of a motion or not because I know we’re talking dollars and cents
with the township. I would feel more comfortable because I would
have the full support of the board, I will be obligated that we
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 14
have the full attention of the board. A motion was made for
Seth to go in front of the York Township Board of Commissioners
to acquire land for the wetlands and then part of the money there
is going to be a cost of at least $30,000.00, a motion to approve
to be negotiating York Township’s approval because they are
the property owner, the Mill Creek Preserve, they are willing
to relocate the wetlands in the Mill Creek Preserve, part of
that approval process. Mr Malesker said its not known of what
the wetland construction will cost , Mill Creek Preserve project
is going ahead. And I guess what will happen then, wetland
mitigation will be a change order to that project. Councilman
Allar said Mill Creek has been bid, this would be part of it, this
would be one of the specifications to that. Mr. Malesker said yes.
Councilman Noll said I just want authorization to go and negotiate
with the understanding until the whole thing is taken care of,
everything could be up to the cost of $30,000.00, I just want you
to have an understanding I don’t know if you feel when I negotiate
that I put a cap on that or up to x amount of dollars for the construction
of this. If you are comfortable, they use their estimates of $7500.00
to $10,000.00. They priced it, it was $22,000.00 for that .76 but I
just want to know. Councilman Myers said did you say you estimated
the cost of the land? Mr. Malesker said that came from ECCO Construction.
The constractor that does that type of work. Councilman Myers asked
and that is how much he’s saying? To construct the wetlands. Mr.
Malekser said the .76 acres of wetlands. A motion from the board
for Councilman Noll to represent the borough at the York Township
Board of Commissioner’s meeting by Councilman Allar. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Noll
abstained.
Meeting Councilman Allar said the meeting we had with York Township
with was not just with the wetlands, it was also about maintenance
York after the basins are constructed. Asking basically if they have
Township the capability and apparently they do. Miller knows what we’re
trying to do and what type of equipment to use out there, kind
of equipment to reach out there. Have a blueprint showing what
the distances are from the dam and so forth. That does match
the capability of York Township. So physically there is no
problem, no problem with Monica Love, Bob Miller and Elizabeth
Heathcote, the staff. Nothing is in writing. Make sure we have
the abilities in front of York Township. Councilman Noll said
we have to have a maintenance program, the person who will do
the monitoring. There may be other issues in the long term that
come out of the dam project. Councilman Allar said they mentioned
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 15
that it would take two people and one vehicle one day. One
of the people would be Dana. Councilman Allar said I would
be inclined to believe that the maintenance agreement would
stay the same, whatever Township costs are, divided three ways.
Don’t forget any, I believe that the inspection costs for the
wetland are divided three ways.
Work with Councilman Allar said second point as you know I’m working with
Jake Romig Jake Romig. He wears a number of hats. He is on the Environmental
Advisory Council, he has his own company and is private consul
for York Township. I’m working with him. Jake doesn’t charge us.
He also knows Mike Danko. I have Jake discussing a number of things
with Mike. One of them is, how do we, exactly what response is the
Corps of Engineers looking for. This is why we have to stay close to
this. Because I suspect he’s going to have information on this. I also
have Jake asking, if we can go into the basins now we have a cease
and desist. If we can go in and clear out growth this is going to save
money and time. Another question I have is, since we kind of know
what our costs are to relocate the wetlands, there may be another
option to this, and that is there is a fund that a lot of developers and
municipalities from time to time, contribute money in, in lieu of
developing wetlands. Its not mentioned in Mike’s letter but I don’t
see why you can’t at least raise that as an option. That has a lot of
benefits to it. We still have to come up with money but once we
do that, we don’t have any consuming costs, we don’t have a maintenance
costs, we don’t have inspection costs. Councilman Myers said is this
by the municipalities? Councilman Allar said I think its federal. Mr.
Malesker said I think that was discussed at one of the York Area
Metropolitan meetings for any work that can be used. York County was
looking into it, using it for roads, interstate project, bridge project.
Can use it for mitigation on a site. It wasn’t in York County it was in
a different county. Councilman Allar said the issue is really not so
much who controls it, the point of it is what Mike Danko willing to
allow us to do. That is step one. If he says that is an option, we need
figure out what the next step is. Who controls it, how much money,
etc. Then we match that against what we know our cost are going to
be, or what we suspect our costs are going to be. So anyway, that’s
what I wanted to let you know. Along those lines, Jake has already
made contact with Mike about the cease and desist order, not willing
to discuss anything unless we send him an email. Which basically
says yes, Jake Romig is representing us on these kind of issues and
so forth, feel free to discuss them with him. So we just have to, Sandy
would have to put an email out to Mike Danko, hopefully tomorrow.
The secretary said I need an email address. Councilman Allar said
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 16
I already have that. Then Jake can follow up. Councilman Allar made a motion
that we provide him the authorization to represent Yoe Borough, Jake Romig
to represent Yoe Borough. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll
All in favor. Councilman Myers said so moved. You will give that stuff to
Sandy. Mr. Malesker said I did send that to Jake, since I mentioned his name.
I did ask him also, you know how he mentioned that he would send us a permit,
an existing conditions plan that hasn’t been sent. Councilman Noll said I can
get something that would work. One thing, do we a listing or a print that shows
the existing basin. I would like to show him where the wetlands are that failed.
Mr. Malesker said yeah, we have the plan that Jason put together. Councilman
Noll said I have a copy of that. Mr. Malesker said this area, this is one area,
the other basin has a very small area of wetland also. But this is the majority
of the wetland, this shows the upper basin. Councilman Noll asked do you have
the plan that shows both basins, the shaded area representing the wetlands.
Mr. Malesker said I believe its in PDF. Councilman Noll said the other question I
have, I would like to review the maintenance agreement we have on the
dam. How do I get a copy of that? Councilman Allar said Sandy. The secretary
said you could come down and look in the box, I have the box in there.
Councilman Noll said okay. Councilman Allar said it’s a very simple one.
Councilman Noll said I just would like to read it and understand it. The
secretary said I’m pretty sure its in there. Mr. Malekser said I think that’s it.
Councilman Allar asked when did you send this to Jake? Mr. Malesker said
yesterday. Councilman Allar said I would like, email like once a week to
see if we get all the stuff. And I’ll do the same thing. If you find you’re not
getting a response, then call me.
DEP Mr. Malesker said in regards to the dam, we have not heard anything from DEP
Waiver regarding the permit waiver or whatever is going to be required on the permit.
We have contacted Jack Hill several times and we haven’t heard back. So I
don’t have any updates on that. Councilman Noll said we’re looking for free?
I guess we’re not expecting to get anything yet.
DCNR Mr. Malesker said on the community park, plans were submitted to DCNR.
Also attached to the engineer’s report is the tentative schedule. There was
interest in the schedule, I understand before. We’re just anticipating that
we submitted a couple weeks ahead, we resubmitted everything again
in June. Seth gave me the sealed plans, that was taken care of. We actually
had them submitted, except with the original sealed plans, then it was
resubmitted on June 25th. We are anticipating their approval any time now.
We’re anticipating bidding this in August, opening in middle of August.
Starting construction towards the end of September. The secretary asked
this end construction January, DCNR grant runs out December 31st, 2009.
Mr. Malesker said well the, the bulk of the. The secretary said I need to
have all the bills in by that date, correct? Mr. Malesker said I’ll look into
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 17
that. The secretary asked could you please, because I can’t get an
answer on that. Councilman Noll said if its very close to September
1st, that shouldn’t be a problem as far as. Mr. Malesker said its not
a very schedule at all . Councilman Allar said my understanding
is that the money has to be spent by December 31st, this goes back
a couple of years, they could have changed the system. That is
what my understanding is, by December 31st, the money has to be
out of our hands. Mr. Malekser said there are circumstances where
they allowed extension. Councilman Allar said I’m sure there’s always
some. The secretary asked, oh we can get an extension? Mr. Malesker
said I’ll look into that. The secretary said we ought to request that
now. Mr. Malesker said if not, we will favor a bid that the work
must be completed by, the last application for payment must be in
by December 15th. So we can be approve. The secretary said December
is a bad month for a municipality, it’s the end of the year. Councilman
Noll said I asked you about the prints. Mr. Malesker said yes, I know
there has been questions about the drainage, the plans that were submitted
show, storm pipe on them. Councilman Noll said we had actually talked
about this at one of our meetings. There is right now a large drainage
pipe that is shown from the tennis court, where we aren’t really having
a water problem at this time, all the way down. Its what like$40,000.00 ?
Mr. Malesker said $42,000.00. Councilman Noll said that shown as,
we didn’t feel would have to spent on that particular. At one point I had
asked Jason about that at one of meetings, that we were putting in the
sidewalk, and what we would we’d be able to do, that basically any
water that would have flown, put a trench in there filled with ballast
rock so we would be able to dissipate water through the water table.
Then the over flow would come over the street, come up and hit
the curb and come down and hit the first inlet box. For some reason,
he didn’t feel that was the wishes of the borough and did not remove
that from the report. Mr. Malesker said the reason that he did not move
that was because was in scope of work that was applied for on the
CDBG grant. York County Planning thought it was a good idea to
have this pipe in there, to protect this roadway and to benefit low
income people that is using the roadway. So, Jason left it on.
Councilman Allar asked how do you know that? Mr. Malesker said
that’s what York County Planning told him. Councilman Allar asked
him who? Mr. Malesker said Jason. Councilman Allar said and that
was from whom, Joiann Galiano? Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure
who it was from. That doesn’t mean that it has to stay, that was
included in the scope that was submitted to CDBG. If you get that
grant you can still use that for other things as long as it falls under
the umbrella that something CDBG would allow you to pay for.
Councilman Noll said I guess my major concern is, since everything
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
has gone to the state, and specific things were shown on the
scope of work, things like the bathrooms. If we don’t spend
it all, what chance do we have, let’s say we want to put another
element in the park, whatever, because we find we’re basically
come in low are we able to do that? Councilman Myers said
I think we just make a change. Mr. Malesker said especially
since this is basically a CDBG not a DCNR, so you have
flexibility with it and so I think what you would want to do,
you can bid it and get a price. Councilman Noll said we
sit down and bid it in so we have all the secondary items in.
Mr. Malesker said that’s how we have it set up now, separate
project and then we can just pull it, award the bid for
the construction of this without that bid item to the contractor.
Councilman Noll said then seek one or two elements for
approval of that. Mr. Malesker said right, that way you get
all the money, you get the CDBG funds. If you were to take
this out prior to that, you would be short the $42,000.00.
The idea was to leave it on so you can get that money. Councilman
Noll said I just wanted to make sure we weren’t obligated to
things. Mr. Malesker said Sam I know actually wanted the pipe too.
So it sounds like there is some conflicting interest. Councilman
Myers said as long as we get rid of the water, I don’t care if its
piped or rock. As long as we get rid of the water. Mr. Malesker
said some grading can be done here, to make this flow away,
that Seth was talking about, then the curbing and sidewalk is
constructed, then it can follow into. Councilman Noll said if
we do that, then there is a outlet where it overflows. Councilman
Allar said the water is actually handled. The way it stands now
you’re looking at somewhere around $50,000.00 on a $200,000.00
project. One out four dollars going into taking care of someone
else’s storm water. Not from Yoe Borough, not from the equipment.
We know Rexroth is going to be doing something at some point,
we know from the zoning hearing board, we saw the plan. He is
going to redirect that stormwater down towards Mill Creek sometime
in the next couple years. We also know that he made changes up there.
Dana can keep an eye on it, some homeowners can keep an eye can
keep an eye on it. Its been over a year now since early last spring since
any rain has come down over the field through Yoe Borough, and
we had a lot of rain. Now we’re talking about, the flooding we’re
having behind the fire house, the water is coming over the gabions.
Councilman Myers asked the Mother’s Day flood? Councilman Allar
said no this like three four months ago. Now even with that rainfall,
I don’t know how much it was but it was a big one. Even then the
water did not come down. He had taken corrective measures. I’m
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
worried that we are spending one out of every four dollars to fix something that
doesn’t need fixed. Mr. Malesker said there is going to be additional
runoff from some of the things that are in here but its like York County
Planning said, they thought if we provide it. Councilman Allar said
York County Planning is not going to make us build it if its not
necessary. And if we come together and say we’ve changed our minds,
they’re not going to say no. They’ve committed $100,000.00 to
renovate the park, they’ve agreed that is proper project. The specific
items, the line items underneath, we can change around without losing
the money and losing the grant. I think what we said here, do we want
to spend that much money on something that may not be needed.
Councilman Myers said I don’t think we should put in anything that is
not needed. We just want to make sure we do the rocks and everything else
or we will have a maintenance issue for our maintenance man. Councilman
Allar said that’s the other thing. Councilman Myers said we need a maintenance
plan , or a game plan for the money we spend. It is a lot easier to spend the
money than to give it back. Mr. Malesker said with $42,000.00 there is a lot
of construction you could be looking at. Councilman Allar said the 42 plus
35, you have the engineering costs. Mr. Malesker said the engineering is done.
Councilman Allar said I’m talking about engineering for overseeing the
project. Councilman Noll said that is part of the general condition. Councilman
Allar said that is still a future bill. Keep in mind, that every single source
of money, CDBG, Revitalization, DCNR, you’re not going get any more.
This is our last chance. I think it’s a waste of money go into this. And again,
he’s going to take care of any issues. Councilman Noll said my other question
does everybody sufficiently looked at this plan and understands what we will
put out for bids, we spend enough of time on it as we can. Councilman Myers
asked is the skatepark in it? Councilman Noll said that’s down by the creek
at the gabions. Councilman Allar said even if we would want one, I wouldn’t have one now with our blessing. Because I know what would happen. Mr.
Malesker said that is something to think about, I don’t think you have to
make any decisions tonight but. Councilman Myers said you’ve got to make
sure you have. Councilman Allar said here’s the reason, we have to make
decision if not tonight, whatever money we are going to get, in reducing
the scope, plus I know one other issue and that’s the bathrooms for $28,000.00.
With Kinsley and Seth most of that work has been done. Councilman Myers
said right. Councilman Allar said with $6 to $8000.00 of fixtures. There’s
another $20,000.00, plus whatever money from this stormwater thing,what
we need to do is have alternates and have to decide on that, so we don’t
lose any of the money, we can go back, and say we aren’t going to do the
stormwater but we better put something in that, for them to approve now.
There in the approval process now. Councilman Myers asked whose
them? Councilman Allar said the county and DCNR. Councilman Myers
said they haven’t seen it, I thought they have seen it. Councilman Allar
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
said they’re going to process approval, We are talking here about
close to $70,000.00 of possible alternatives. And then if we take that
out, we need something else in there. Mr. Malesker said the curb
and sidewalk is an alternate. That was added on. Councilman Noll
asked but is that going to push our approval back with these
alternates? Is that something we can work on them now, have them
and then as we have funding, get approval. Mr. Malesker said yeah,
I think you can come up with ideas, whatever gets planned for
what you want. You don’t delay the approval process, if you need
to spend the money by December 31st, you need to send it out for bid.
Councilman Noll said will you have some time, I’ll run down to
the office and look at some alternates. That way I think we need to
look at some alternates that way,we’ve got to get ready to pounce
on this because of our time period. Have some alternates that we
can send out with our bid packet to get them bid at the same time,
that way we can send it out. Mr. Malesker said yeah. Councilman
Allar said again, Dana should way in. There is I don’t know exactly,
if we need stoves, new appliances, some issues with the roof. All
these things we need to consider. Mr .Malesker said what you do
is find what is ineligible for funding. Councilman Allar said I know
one thing, cameras. Councilman Noll said skylights, I guess there
are enough skylights in that building. Mr. Shearer said it leaks enough.
Councilman Allar said again, for what its worth, forget the skatepark,
I still would like to see something for the teenagers. I mean it’s the
biggest population that is getting into trouble in this town. And we
don’t have anything. They aren’t really going to go up their on the
rides. The tennis courts are totally useless, no one plays tennis,
We don’t have a lot of ground in this town, we have tennis courts
no one uses. Councilman Manns said one of them is missing a net.
Councilman Allar said yeah, one of them is missing a net. Do we
get calls from people that say put the net up. That’s what I say its
not being used. Councilman Noll said I think, if everyone is
in agreement, I meet with C. S. Davidson, I’ll look at some alternates,
next week or the following for some alternates that qualify.
Councilman Myers asked how is the inspection going to cost us?
Mr. Malesker said I don’t know if we have an estimate for that.
Councilman Noll said we never had one, Jason didn’t work up
any estimates. Mr. Malesker said I’ll look into that. Councilman
Myers said I’m thinking of what we can do there, we can actually
use Seth as our inspector. We’ll just call you in if in when you’re
needed. Mr. Malesker said the CDBG does require a part time
inspection so we’ll need somebody. Councilman Noll said part of
it will be done by the building permits that will be obtained
for the bathrooms and pavilion. That will happen through our
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 21
inspectors. I don’t know how detailed that is if we could use
Dana or myself to check out equipment and things like that.
I would ask for guidelines. Councilman Myers said basically
on my projects, we had the construction meeting, that was
kind of the inspection charge. For the most part I did all of
the inspection for a lot of the project. All I’m saying, look
into it, if we can use Seth okay, inspections versus you.
Mr. Malesker said okay. Part time inspector doesn’t mean
part time you use C. S. Davidson. Councilman Myers said
right. Mr. Malesker said we have to do it in accordance.
Councilman Noll said does anyone have anymore questions?
Mr. Malesker asked do you have a copy of this? Councilman
Noll said I do but I don’t know if the borough does. Mr.
Malesker asked do you want me to leave a set here? Councilman
Myers said if you have a set available leave it here. Councilman
Noll said one of each sealed set, if you need them let me know.
You will be getting a bill for the sealed sets. I don’t know if its
going to be a problem it will actually be in my name for Kinsley.
I got it for half price. The secretary said it should have something
with Yoe Borough on it. Councilman Noll said it will say
Yoe Borough Park. I’ll bring it over, they ran it through my
account. Mr. Malesker said try to get together with me as soon
as you can, so we can bid, if we get the bids out for bid we
can issue an addendum and put the alternates in. I’d like
to look that we are advertising this in August.
Growing Mr. Malesker said I looked into this and I talked to Dana about
Greener this, about the Growing Greener Grant Plus Money. I know you
Plus had talked to Sean Donnelly and basically what he said basicially
is that since this wasn’t a federal or state project that you are not
illegible for grant money for it, for the Growing Greener Plus
and then for equipment. Yes, again we found another grant
through DEP, that we can get up to $25,000.00 a year for
maintenance which could be used for mowing equipment,
and that can’t be used if its not a federal project either.
They won’t consider if its not federal or state project. Mr.
Shearer said I did some research online for it, the project
that is federal is the one out there on Indian Rock Dam Road
with the Army Corps. What we got was, we got two permits
from the state to operate dams. On those permits it doesn’t
say anything about flood control. All the paper work says this
is why we want the dam but we are not, we weren’t a project
through the Army Corps of Engineers specifically for flood
control. We weren’t a project through USDA for flood
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
control. We weren’t not a project through DEP for flood control.
We built the dams with block grant money, but we didn’t use,
there’s other funding sources which would have made us illegible.
Councilman Myer said they wouldn’t give us any money when
we did that. Mr. Malesker said it wasn’t a federally mandated
project that they turned it over to Yoe Borough as its sponsor.
If it was a federal project, there would be a sign up. If there is
sign that says, federal project sponsored by Yoe Borough.
Councilman Myer said so we were shut down on both accounts.
Mr. Malesker said right. Councilman Myers said keep looking
Dana. Mr. Shearer said keeping looking Tom. Councilman
Myer said we appreciate you doing it, good try buddy. Councilman
Allar said this was blind sided thing at the last minute. Councilman
Myers said we’re trying.
Meet with Mr. Malesker said Dana and I also met with Terry Sprenkle from
Terry PENN DOT today. They were in Dallastown, working
Sprenkle. with them on something. Easier to come down and look at that spring
that empties onto Main Street. And it does ice up there in the winter,
he said PENN DOT should assist in doing something there, basically
what Terry said, they don’t have the funds to do anything. And he’ll
to Steve Percety about it, but we shouldn’t really realize not to get
a whole lot of help from them. But he wants to be kept in the loop in
case there would be something that would be there. We did some
looking out there too, and need to investigate where its coming from.
Where the spring really connect. If we can do something with the
spring near the end, and eliminate that problem down there then
we wouldn’t have to do anything. Another option possibly would be
to tear the sidewalk out to that first inlet, tie that down there instead
you could bore across the street to where the inlet is over there.
I don’t know how successful that would be because of that bore.
That is something PENN DOT said, that should be done, but
said we don’t do that type of work so we can’t help you. They had
thought the stormwater was on that same side of the street, but
its not. Councilman Myers asked is it really our responsibility?
Mr. Malesker said well technically its waters of the Commonwealth,
so its not really the borough’s responsibility but it is getting on
a street in Yoe Borough and PENN DOT is not going to do anything
about it. You could just let it go. Councilman Allar said I think when
you talk to PENN DOT, you should have a file of who you talked to,
what they said. This is not going away, next year, five years from now.
It’s a development with issues. We’ll keep talking to them about it.
We better keep a file, we’ve tried to fix it. You guys should have a
little file. Mr. Malekser said I’ll document the meeting keep it
in a file. In Dallastown, he’s worked with for nine years and has not
gotten anywhere. It seems that at one time, that they is tied into the
same storm water system. Councilman Noll asked with an issue
like this, would it be good to get a political person involve, or would
that just create anger with PENN DOT. Mr. Malesker said I think
it can work, the thing is they don’t have it budget to do anything with
it now. Councilman Allar said they won’t put it in the budget for next
year, they won’t do that unless we ask them. Mr. Malesker said you
can certainly ask. If you want we can look into finding out where the
source is. Go to Dallastown, if they offer they’re to put a small camera
up in there. What we really need to do is expose where they made the
connection, need a back hoe in there. Councilman Myers asked how
would we do that with the people? Mr. Malesker said you would just
have to get a temporary easement from them. Councilman Myers
asked there is a pipe there? Mr. Malesker said yes. Mr. Shearer said
we were suppose to run the camera when that was open. When we
did the work to repair that lateral, we couldn’t get the camera past
a certain point. To get to the pipe we have to dig. Mr. Malesker said
there’s some kind of offset right there, that has settled. It’s a choke
point for the camera, they can’t get it so far and that’s it. Hopefully
they can clear that connection and snake it out as far as they can.
We need to pay someone like Fitz and Smith or someone for
services of the back hoe. Councilman Noll asked is he going to
inquire about that, dug out by hand? Mr. Malesker said it could be.
Mr. Shearer said truthfully I don’t know how deep it is. Problem
there is, I failed to get picture when they did the sewer work there.
I need to start take pictures, it always seems to comeback at us.
Councilman Myers asked can you get one of those small back hoes?
Mr. Shearer said they have a small one, a Kaboda. We could beg
Red Lion or York Township. Councilman Myers said Tom work
on that back hoe. Mr. Shearer said my thing is, we need to figure
out where the head of the spring is. Councilman Myers said those
houses up there, all had streams in them. Ronnie Crull as a kid,
he raised fish where he grew up there. Mr. Shearer said some of
them used it for refrigeration. Councilman Myers said that’s going
through someone’s basement and being pumped out. Mr. Shearer
said if its in somebody’s basement and being pumped out, getting
rid of that, the water table. Until we know. Mr. Malesker said it
needs to be investigated. Mr. Shearer said I know before, Sam saying
it comes back on us because sewer authority doing work or the water
authority doing work. Like I said to Pete, to me that is state water going
onto a state road. Does that make that somebody’s responsbilty. If it is
in a pipe that is ninety or hundred years old, that person that did that,
whose responsibility is it there. Until we find the head, we don’t know
whose responsibility it is. Like Terry Sprenkle said today, in winter
time an accident happens, we will have to find out where that water
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
comes from. They’ll going to start with PENN DOT, Yoe Borough
and everyone down the line. Councilman Myers said if not
for anything use you’ve got to watch our for the customers, the
tax payers. You don’t want anybody getting hurt, you want to try to
check that out. Mr. Malesker said if you need me for anything.
Councilman Myers said ask Dallastown if they will let us use the
T. V. camera for us and a backhoe. Mr. Malesker said when that
sewer work was done, the property owner seemed very nice.
Had some type of temporary construction easement. Councilman
Noll said Red Lion has a back hoe. Councilman Myers said I know
someone who knows how to operate a back hoe. I know where you
can get someone at $75.00 per hour for an operator, its not a back
hoe, it’s a mini excavator. Councilman Myers said I’ll make a motion
that we spend up to $500.00 from our liquid fuels account. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Mr. Malesker said
you are dealing with storm water but it’s not a borough street. Call
Gerry Wagner. Councilman Myers said here’s who you call, I’ll give
you the phone number,324-3835. Sabold Construction, ask for Nick.
Ask for the excavator. The secretary said we need a certificate of
insurance from him too. Mr. Malesker said that’s all I had.
Stimulus Councilman Allar said I have one thing, with this stimulus money, shovel
Money ready projects. The bridge at Mason Alley, it seems like that would be
ready to go. Mr. Malesker said what they mean by shovel ready is
plans done and permits in hand. Councilman Allar said the permits
we wouldn’t have but the plans should be. Mr. Malesker said we never
did any plans for any kind of rehab. Councilman Allar said I thought
we did have plans for the liquid fuels monies through CDBG. Mr.
Malesker said there is some scour protection that we put together. I
can look into that. Councilman Allar said if the permit is going to
hold it up obviously. Mr. Malesker said it really doesn’t make a lot of
sense, its not like a lot of municipalities have permits on a shelf waiting
for. Councilman Allar said I think most of the stimulus money is
funneled through CDBG. And as far the lucky municipalities are the ones
that have projects on the short list. When we just looked we did have
a project on the second year. but now we have nothing on the second
or third. We should have done more thought for CDBG. Dallastown
is going to be doing sidewalks on Maple Street in 2010-2011. Mr.
Shearer said about Clark Alley. Mr. Malesker said about that grant.
I know I talked to Gary Peacock, he wasn’t familiar for that type
of grant. He said there are some other things available for that if you
did want to pave Clark Alley. There are some grants out there for
that. We spoke briefly. I haven’t printed anything out yet on that.
I can still get that information together. Councilman Allar said keep
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
an eye open for bridges. This is going to get more and more
expensive. Mr. Malesker said right.
Patch Councilman Noll said I saw that there was a patch on George Street
coming from Springwood on a sink hole. Who takes responsibility?
Mr. Shearer said here again I didn’t stop by and take a picture.
Apparently from what Mark Clark tells me, it is all coming back to
the home builder there at 39 W. George Street. They had to do
bore because PENN DOT didn’t want them to open the street. So they
bored in, taped into the York Township interceptor there to do the
sewer. We all thought that is where the problem lied because basically
in line with the man hole or a few feet away from the manhole. Apparently
when they dug it up it was not the sewer, there is a pipe there in the
ground with some water trickling out. Don’t know where it went. So,
what had happened, it started to erode the road, they filled it in and
patched it back. That contractor was working for homebuilder but
it didn’t solve the problem. Now the question is whose going to pay
for that hole, all those expensive rocks. Councilman Noll asked did
they fix the pipe, that’s not our responsibility, put some asphalt on top of
it. Mr. Shearer said I guess they did whatever, I’m just getting this from
Mark Clark when I saw him today, I guess I don’t know if Terry
Sprenkle was involved. Mr. Malesker said he had mentioned to me,
that it wasn’t a problem with the bore. He had said that put some stone
in and filled it back in. So they fixed the problem. Councilman Noll
asked but what is the source of the problem? Mr. Malesker if they
don’t know where it goes, they can’t address the issue of where it came
from. If the pipe is not connected, and they reconnected it so there
isn’t a problem with erosion. I would think they would have addressed
that but I don’t know. Mr. Shearer said I asked Mark, he felt that it
at one time tapped into the storm drain that was near there. He said
this pipe was a lot lower elevation than the box. He didn’t feel it was
something that they had tapped into there, there again was the pipe
there for a hundred years running down the dirt road to the creek.
Look for something on that side. Councilman Noll asked is there
any grant money, to study of what the municipality has underground.
I don’t know if we have records of the town system from 50 to
100 years ago, maybe the municipality would look into that. There
are grants for that? Mr. Malekser said I have an in house list of grants.
Councilman Noll said I thought there were grants out there to get
forensic studies? Mr. Malekser said where they use ground radar
to get that. Councilman Noll said some of the stuff to find linings
of manholes and try to figure out the pipes. Councilman Allar said
its probably a homemade system. Mr. Shearer said truthfully we don’t have good records of our storm sewer drains. I’d like to see us somewhere
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
down the line have good inspection of what is going on underground.
Councilman Noll said there are grants. Councilman Myers said but
you have to find out where. Councilman Noll said I think I know who
told me that. Councilman Myers asked what else for Steve. Mr. Malesker
said if you need me give me a yell.
Maintenance Report
Codification Mr. Shearer said I’m still working on the stuff for codification, I was
to get it done today but I lied. I will get it tomorrow.
Park Mr. Shearer said up at the park there is pines that are in the area where
the fire siren is. We are starting to lose a lot of them to some kind
of insect or disease. I want to see about getting some prices, make
some calls and also I can rent, borrow or beg for some equipment to
take them down, so we don’t have to contract it out. There are too close
to the electrical service there, the overhead line, across the street, between
that and the restrooms. Will try to get some professional help there,
borrow some equipment. I’ll let you know next month. Councilman Noll
said maybe we can look into that as part of the park project, secondary.
Deadfall trees. Mr. Shearer said some of the trees that we are talking about
taking out aren’t on the plan. Councilman Noll said we are looking at
taking a couple out, two or three its not many. Councilman Allar asked
about the estimates for the cameras. Mr. Shearer said I don’t know where
they are, but they are out there. Councilman Allar said we didn’t ever
go over ones over at the basketball court.
Tree Mr. Shearer said I didn’t send out the letter from the pine tree up at
at Fourth and South Main. Right after the last meeting when I said I was
4th and Main going to send a letter about site. They trimmed the tree down and they
eliminated any concern that I had.
Sheriff’s Mr. Shearer said I’d like permission to use the Sheriff’s Department
Dept. Program for Youth Detention Center. This program they get teens from
for Youth shelters, these not offenders, like we normally get for community service.
These are people that are in the shelter system. What they’re doing
they are providing them with community service opportunities. They
also reward them for that community service. They do things like taking
them on bowling parties, things like that. What was suggested from
an officer from Sheriff’s Department, is that what I’d like to do with
them, use them for curb painting and he said they bring them in
supervised, a couple supervisors to do the project. Buy some pizza
and sodas, have a little party. This would be, another resource, for
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 27
community service type of work, if its okay. The other program
that I was looking at, at the dam, because they are offenders,
they must have crime deterrent type tie ins to that so painting
curbs apparently wasn’t, painting graffiti would be. This is another
program that the Sheriff’s Department has. Councilman Myers said
okay. How should we do something like that, credit card? The
secretary said he has a credit card. Mr. Shearer said I could do a
credit card or petty cash, whatever Sandy thinks. The secretary said
credit card is fine, we keep a limited amount of petty cash. I’d
rather you do that, its easier to document. Mr. Shearer said we
don’t have any paperwork to sign. The secretary asked you don’t
know how many people its going to be though? Mr. Shearer said
no, they probably be 5 to 10 people. The secretary said that shouldn’t cost you more than fifty dollars I would think. Councilman Allar
said would you make them clean out some of the storm water drains?
Mr. Shearer said probably back in the alleys.
Tree Mr. Shearer said the tree down at the street light at the fire hall, the
At the last time it was trimmed was last year. It has grown back over, I
Fire Hall contacted Met Ed’s forester to have them come back. He said its
not affecting the service lines, it will be awhile until the crew comes
through to trim. Basically the street light doesn’t work. Councilman
Myers said that one goes on and then goes off, last night it did.
What do you want to do? The landowner would give us permission
to cut it, I know that. Mr. Shearer said there again, I don’t know
if I’m going to get a contractor to willing to deal with it because
of where its located to close to lines. Its close enough to the electric
lines, that I don’t think you’re average tree guy is going to want to
mess with it. Councilman Myers asked do you have a chain saw?
Mr. Shearer said yes. Councilman Myers said we’ll get it. I’ll
help you get it down.
Cell Phone Mr. Shearer said the last thing is, with the sink hole, with the water
Bill running off of Main Street up here, I’m running up a lot of minutes
on the cell phone bill. The treasurer has made me aware of this.
Anyone have any good ideas, you want me to shop for prices?
Councilman Myers asked who do we have? Mr. Shearer said
Verizon right now. We only have 300 minutes and I burned 500
last month. Councilman Myers said see what kind of deals that
are out there. Councilman Noll said we’re not in a binding contract
are we? The secretary said no, I told him to shop around. That’s
gotta be a better deal than that one. Try to get at least 500 minutes
please. Mr. Shearer said T Mobile has one for 1000 minutes.
Councilman Myers asked anything else for maintenance?
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 28
Digital Councilman Noll said with all that is going on, do you have a
Camera digital camera? Mr. Shearer said yes. Councilman Noll said
I didn’t know if the borough had one or not. Mr. Shearer said
its like I said, the sewer project I didn’t bother and stop by
and stick my head in. The secretary asked if Mark Clark took
pictures? Mr. Shearer said some, I will ask to get a copy.
Patch Councilman Allar said that patch on George Street. The homeowner
at Mason and George, on the corner toward the light, said they
dumped a lot of stones down the storm drain. I was wondering, if
you could look down the grate. It may be above where the outlet
is.
Spraying Councilman Allar asked did you ever get any information about
License the spraying license? Councilman Myers said believe it or not,
I’m actually working on that. I decided to wait until they changed
their core requirement. I just got the publication, it’s a whole new
book. The core is the easy one, the category is the hard one.
Keep it mind, its not open book anymore. Anything else for Dana?
Paving Councilman Myers asked are we going to do any paving this year?
How are the roads? When is the last time we did any paving,
when was the last time we did anything? Mr. Shearer said two
years ago. Here’s my feeling on that, talking about the bridge work,
we don’t know what we are going to run into or have to use
liquid fuels money for whatever up there on Main Street. I’d love
to do something up on Broad Street, at least do some repairs there.
Maybe microsurface. That probably Third, between Elm and Main
Street. Probably two of the worse right now. Pennsylvania we
could probably do some work down there. Like I said before, that’s
the project, we got raise the sidewalk or lower the street we don’t
have a lot of room to go. So we’ve got money in there but we could
burn through on the bridges. They aren’t getting any better.
Councilman Myers said I understand what you’re saying but the
roads aren’t getting any better either. Mr. Shearer said when
we’re getting $17,000.00. Councilman Myers said what’s bad about
that is, we’re only getting $17,000.00,its going down. Liquid fuels,
isn’t getting any better, because everyone is saving on fuel. Someday
we’re going to have a issue like every other issue we have. We need
money. Councilman Allar said we are crack sealing some. Mr. Shearer
said like I said, how much to replace that bridge on Mason will it cost.
Liquid fuels we only have 2.79 miles. The secretary said right now
on the top of my head I don’t know, but I think its around $60,000.00.
Mr. Shearer said we did that with the utlility work with PENN DOT,
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 29
there. The secretary said yes, we got a good deal with that. Mr. Shearer
said the year before that we did base repairs with Pflumm on East
Pennsylvania and on High Street and up there on the corner Elm.
I’d love to do something every day but. Councilman Myers said I just
know some of the roads are getting cracks and things with base. And
the alleys. I just thought I’d ask. Mr. Shearer said that’s why tried
to get the money for alleys out of PENN DOT. We get 2.79 miles
of road, we probably have another mile of alley way. You’re looking
at that one stimulus grant for the gravel road program, throw that
towards even doing something at the park. That requires, that project
is going to require some matching funds. Councilman Noll said
at Mason right there before George, I’m not advocating this,
is a bridge needed there, we’re looking at putting a pile of money
to it. Councilman Allar said there is probably a six block area of
people that use it. Councilman Noll said it’s a bad corner to turn
in off of George. Councilman Allar said the traffic gets backed up.
Councilman Myers said potentially for the fire department, put
a fire hydrant across the street, coming down Springwood, at Yoe
Auto Parts if we lose that garage, if we need water it’s a good source
of water, hate to see that bridge go. Councilman Noll said I was just
wondering if we want to put a lot of money into a bridge at an
alley. Mr. Shearer said the biggest user is Yoe Borough Maintenance.
Councilman Myers said I’ll tell you what, there doing a lot nowadays
with bridges. Its concrete block culvert. As well as bridges, dig it out,
have a crane and set it in. Doing it a lot of that work. Councilman
Noll said its just a question, its really along side of being undercut.
Mr. Shearer said you talked about the scouring there on the Church
Street bridge. Before economic hard times, that was $20,000.00 to do
that. Having a contractor do it, let alone the engineering.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Myers said we had three building permits. Roof over deck, fence and
an awning, people are improving their property. Citation for grass. Warning for
grass, unenclosed storage and too many dogs at 171 S. Main Street and they have
until July 10th. Time 5 ½ hours for June. For May he had 10 ¾ hours. Paperwork,
set back for a shed. Took some pictures for trash. Wrote citation and went to Teyral’s
office. Checked on dogs. Zoning Hearing Board letters. The secretary said he had
the zoning hearing board meeting also. Councilman Myers said he drops off the
report and charges us an ½ hour why can’t he just mail that? The secretary said he
comes down checks his mail box and finds out if there is anything else that needs
to be done.
Emergency Management Report(cont.) Page 30
Quarterly Mayor Sanford said the quarterly meeting is scheduled for
Meeting tomorrow evening. One of the things I have to do is update
the radios again.
Dam Mayor Sanford said we talked about the dam emergency plan.
EAP Still working on getting that resolved.
NIMS Mayor Sanford said we received a letter and am working on
getting the NIMS compliance information back to the county.
Councilman Allar asked is that the NIMS we took a couple
of years ago? Mayor Sanford said yes, every year you have
to update that. Councilman Allar asked how do you update
that? Mayor Sanford said just tell them who is qualified and
in what areas. Councilman Allar asked is there retesting?
Mayor Sanford said no, if you want to increase your knowledge
and your certification, you can do that and it looks better for
us. Councilman Allar said when you qualify you qualify?
The secretary asked that is something Dave Naylor will have to
do, right? Councilman Allar said people can get a higher level.
Councilman Myers said I don’t know if you have NIMS or
not through work. Mr. Naylor said no. Mayor Sanford said
you can take it online.
FEMA Mayor Sanford said I completed the FEMA Biennial Report.
Sandy has a copy of that for the file. The secretary said thank
you for doing that.
Mayor and Police Report
Rail Mayor Sanford said correspondence for the Mayor’s Report
Trail and this I got last month. Its about the Rail Trail meeting that
Meeting I was unable to attend. Was there anybody here? Councilman
Allar said about a dozen people. Mayor Sanford asked reaction?
Councilman Allar said its one of these things, in fact I mentioned
it a couple months ago. The alternative we talked about, I don’t
maybe if we talked to them about, the property owners, they seem
to think that was responsible. Again nothing is going to happen
until the feasibility study is done sometime next year. Mayor
Sanford asked were you here? Councilman Allar said I thought
it went well. Councilman Noll said Yoe Parts was here, in the
long term they thought it would be very difficult.
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 31
Mayor Sanford said going into the police report, I’ll do April’s first. There were
29 calls, 2 accidents, 1 accident with injury, 8 traffic citation, 1 summary citation,
2 misdemeanor felony arrests. Operation service hours for April was 29.75 hours,
administrative hours 32.85. For May, 34 calls, 3 accidents, 1 accident with injury,
46 traffic citations, 2 summary citations, 3 misdemeanor felony arrests and 4
juvenile arrests. Operation service hours for May 77 and administrative hours
36.19. Councilman Allar said John, do you have any more information on the
felony arrests? Mayor Sanford said I can ask them, some of it is, I get a report
with being commissioner. Councilman Allar asked is there any trends going
on, vandalism, drugs? Just what kind if arrests is it? Mayor Sanford said I can
pull the report and email you. Councilman Allar said I’ve got a box over
there. Mayor Sanford said I’ll look back on it, I’ll try to remember to do that.
Complaints Mayor Sanford said I have been fielding a number of complaints,
on weeds to information barking dogs on Main Street. That’s
not resolved yet. Two location in the borough that have unregistered,
untitled vehicles on their property. And some trash complaints.
I want to look at information.
Unavailable Mayor Sanford said I will be out of town from July 12-17,2009.
Secretary’s Report
Closing The secretary said the office will be closed July 17, 2009.
Mr. Shearer said add to my report that I will be out of town August 7 until
August 16, 2009.
Councilman Noll asked how are the revenues coming in for taxes this year?
The secretary said we are doing really well this year. It shouldn’t be
any worse than that it has been for the past two years. Connie is stopping
in , I see Connie a lot. She gave John a picture, it’s a really good picture of
Ron and John. Mayor Sanford said it was the presentation from the
Boroughs Association for his 40 years of service. The secretary said we
are going to put a picture up and a plaque.
Unfinished Business
Councilman Myers said nothing that I have seen. Anyone have any unfinished
business, Tom?
New Business Page 32
Councilman Myers said how about any new business? There was no new
business.
Payment of Bills
Councilman Myers said payment of bills we have to add a couple, Met Ed:
$62.30, Columbia Gas $25.62, Columbia Gas:$16.06, Red Lion Borough:
$223.14. A motion was made to pay the bills with those additions by Councilman
Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Adjournment
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the meeting at 9:27PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor.
