Wednesday, July 8, 2009

June 2, 2009 Yoe Borough Minutes

                                   Yoe Borough

                            150 North Maple Street

                                   Yoe, PA    l7313              Pg. 1


                  The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on June 2, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple St.,

Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7:01PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.


Council Members in Attendance:


Sam Snyder

Barry Myers

Tom Allar

George Howett

Seth Noll


Others in attendance:


Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer                           Connie Crull, Wife

Dana Shearer, Maintenance                                    of Councilman Crull

Pete Solymos, Solicitor                                             Dorothea Warner,

John Klinedinst, Engineer                                    Sister of Councilman

Melody Schaefer, Members 1st Credit Union                  Crull

Doug Truax, Kocman Insurance Agency

Dave Naylor, Resident




Councilman Snyder asked did everyone have an opportunity to look over the

minutes of the prior meeting. Any additions or corrections? Let the record

reflect that I abstain. Councilman Myers made a motion to approve the minutes of May 5, 2009. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.

Those in favor: Councilman Howett and Councilman Noll. Councilman Snyder abstained. Councilman Snyder said minutes approved.





Honoring of Councilman Ronald C. Crull                                    Page 2


Councilman Snyder said the first thing on the agenda, as you are aware after our last council meeting, we had the untimely passing of one of our council

members, Ron Crull. There’s absolutely now way, this municipality can honor someone such as him and pay him any type of due justice. However in a vain attempt to show him the justice that he does so richly deserve I would

like to present to council for consideration, Yoe Borough Resolution 2009-09.

Yoe Borough Resolution 2009-09


Be it known that, The Yoe Borough Council would like to honor the

memory of our fellow councilman, Ronald C. Crull, who passed away on

May 12, 2009. Whereas, he was serving in his last year of a four year elected

term as Councilman with the Borough of Yoe. His term set to expire on December 31, 2009. Whereas, he was in his 40th consecutive year of service of the Borough of Yoe. Having the distinction of being elected nine times to

served on the Borough Council and one term as Mayor. Whereas, at different times during those years of service to the Borough Council, he served on numerous committees and held numerous positions such as Road Superintendent, Maintenance Personnel Supervisor, Vice-President of Council and President of Council and Mayor. Whereas, standing as a testament and inspiration to people who suffer from life threatening illness and afflictions, while battling his many physical challenges, he wanted to remain an active part of the council and still attend monthly meetings. His most recently attended meeting being only 7 days before his untimely death.

Now therefore bet it resolved that, because of the dedication, courage, commitment and love that Ronald C. Crull has show as a Councilman of the

Borough of Yoe. The Borough Council hereby proclaims itself in mourning for the entire month of June. That. the Borough Council extends its heartfelt sympathy, along with a copy of this resolution to his family. That, out of

respect for his community service, his council seat shall remain unfilled for the entire month of June. That, he shall be considered as fulfilling his four year term with all the rights and privileges afforded to him by the office he held. That, he may now go home for a job well done. Be it resolved on this

2nd day of June 2009.


A motion was made by Councilman Allar to resolve Resolution 2009-09. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman

Snyder said so be it resolved.

Honoring of Councilman Ronald C. Crull(cont.)                  Pg. 3


I also had the opportunity before John was out on disability, to get the signature of the mayor for his approval as well. We did receive a thank you for the flowers that were sent by the council members and Sandy and Dana.

You know how much your thoughtfulness is appreciated. Thank you for your cards and calls and thank you for the flowers. Connie and Debra Crull.

As a special token, I ordered a single red rose in honor of the councilman to be with us here tonight. I directed Dana to pass that on to the family after

tonight’s meeting. But Ronnie will be with us this entire night. And long

afterwards. Thank you for being here, Connie.




Councilman Snyder said unto visitors. First we have on the agenda,

Melody Schaefer and Kim Ryen from Members 1st Federal Credit Union.

Ms. Schaefer said my name is Melody Schaefer, Kim Ryen had an emergency this evening and won’t be with us. I’m going to go over the presentation. First of all I have a packet for each of you. The reason I am here this evening, I am the Business Deposits Officer for Members 1st Federal Credit Union. What I do is, I work with the larger businesses and government accounts. Kim Ryen is the manager of our Mount Rose branch, she was formerly the manager of the Red Lion Giant branch, which opened

in October of 2008. Kim and I, actually I approached Sandy and asked if I could talk to her a little bit about the credit union. Let me start back at the beginning, I’m not sure how familiar you are with credit unions in general,

or with Members 1st. That’s where I’ll start my presentation. Credit Unions

are fundamentally different than a commercial bank. We are a non for profit

organization, owned by our members, they are considered as well as the people that have deposit accounts and loans with us. For that reason we do not have outside shareholders like a commercial bank does. Not that we don’t make profit, we take those profits and but them back into the credit

union for service to our members. Generally we are able to offer a higher deposit rate, lower loan rate than a commercial bank. Members 1st, itself,

is the third largest credit union in the state of Pennsylvania, right behind

PSCEU and there is a police and fire fighters credit union over in Philadelphia. We’ve been around since 1950 and right now we have 34 branches. Our first branch was actually at the Navy Depot in Mechanicsburg, and we still actually have a branch there. We ventured into


Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 4


the Carlisle Barracks. When we moved outside those two facilities, we did change our name, didn’t become another organization but we adapted. There are some municipal accounts that I work with, I work with only on a certificate of deposit relationship. Because generally what will you find, our CD’s at the credit union are generally at the top of the market if not the best. There’s other municipalities I work with that have their entire relationship, their transaction accounts as well. Credit unions are insured by the National Credit Union Administration Insurance Fund, NUCUA, which is government sponsored part of the FDIC insurance. Works exactly the same as FDIC, when the FDIC limits went up to $250,000.00, so did ours. Also for any amounts over the insured amount, we are compliant with Act 72 and we collateralize the funds appropriately. Actually we have fairly significant accounts and we collateralize them in that matter. Credit unions, we operated under a charter and we have to limit the field membership, in a certain way. We don’t do business with just anyone, just anyone that walks in our front

door. When we started out at the Navy Depot, it was a employer based charter meaning that you and to work at the Navy Depot or have a relative that did in order to do business with us. About eight years ago, we changed our charter status and went to a community based charter. And what that meant was, anyone who lived worked or worshipped in six surrounding counties, could walk through our front door and do business with us. For business reasons, back in September of last year, we went back to our original charter status, which is employer based charter. And what that allows us to do, is to expand now, with the employer based charter. For example, Lancaster County was not one of our county assigned with us previously. We can now do business, with businesses, municipalities, organizations, any where within a twenty five mile radius of where we have a branch. So it actually allows to place a branch and do business out there.

We work with 1900 businesses in the local area. And are able to do business with their employees and their relatives. What I passed out to you is what is called our employer group letter. If the Borough of Yoe was going to do any type of business, we would first have to bring the borough into our membership. It’s a very simple process. Its just a letter that completely filled out, by the appropriate person and the letter goes to the National Credit Union Administration. In about a week and half, two weeks the Borough of Yoe,is added to our list of 1900 businesses that we’re the credit union for, at that point the borough could do business with as well as borough employees as well as their relatives. As for the branches that we have in the local area,

Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 5


and then I’ll address your account specifically here. We do have the branch in Red Lion Giant at Cape Horn Giant, that is a seven day a week branch as are all of our Giant Store branches. Open to seven o’clock every night, four o’clock on Saturday. And 11 to 2 on Sunday. The other branches that we have in the York area, we have one on Mount Rose Avenue, we have one on White Street and there is a brand new branch going over at the Galleria,

on Whiteford Road, I don’t know if you’ve seen it being built across from the Sears. And that will be opening late summer. In addition in September,

a branch will going into the Manchester Giant. So we are really expanding in

this York Area. We would like to become as big as we are in Cumberland

County, where we have a 25% market share of the financial institutions. Does anyone have any questions for me so far? Talking in general about the

credit union. Councilman Snyder asked do you service any other municipalities? Ms. Schaefer said I do. For privacy reasons I can’t really disclose who we do business with. But we do. Councilman Snyder said I mean without having to ask our solicitor, whose going to say he’s going

to have to research this, I was just wondering, availability of the municipality having a checking accounts, savings accounts with a credit union versus a banking institution if there is a some state regulation that says its has to be in a bank first. Ms. Schaefer said actually there’s not, that

question has come up before because I approached school districts that have checked into it, there are municipalities that have their checking accounts with us and transaction accounts as well as certificate of deposits. And like I said we would provide you with all the paperwork that we could finalize to make the relationship. Solicitor Solymos said your council and Members 1st,

and other councils and schools have provided you with the legal authority

this is a municipality, that does not need to spend more money on what isn’t necessary. So I would greatly appreciate, that availing myself to the research

showing that, that is not a problem. Ms. Schaefer, said absolutely that is not

a problem, we would more than happy to provide you with that information,

absolutely. I have some specific information about the accounts that  you

do have right now. And what I have provided to you, right now in your

packet on the left hand side. Would be a copy of our rate sheet from today. I would tell you how they apply to the accounts that you have right now.

The three, you have two commercial checking accounts, right now. We do pay interest directly on our checking account. If the average monthly balance, and you are put into a tier basically for the number of paper items


Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 6


that are run through the account on a monthly basis. There would be

interest adjustments based on the economic environment but as long

as an average balance of $2500.00 in the checking account, it would

be paid on a monthly basis. Our savings account is also listed along with the transaction accounts. We have had to adjust our rates, like everyone else in the market but our general savings account pay over ½ of 1%. But it does look like its more than  you have on your accounts at this point. On the savings account. I want to draw attention more to the PLGIT accounts right now, what have been hearing the rates don’t appear to be as attractive as they have been in the past. And its just not the economic environment, it seems like they have come way down. Now I’m assuming the accounts

that you have with PLGIT, you have put the money in for more an investment purpose rather than a transaction. Councilman Snyder said except for our state liquid fuels. Ms. Schaefer said exactly, but the other ones I was assuming they were more for, investments. Earn some interest.

We do have some attractive certificate of deposit options. I have that,

right there. There is a nine month no penalty certificate, half way down

the page. What the certificate of deposit allows you to do is put a lump sum of money, we do guarantee that rate for nine months. But you are not under any obligation to leave that money in there for the whole time. You can

withdraw the money at any time from your account. There is a $5000.00 minimum, if you go under that, we ask that you close it out. And move

the money into a savings account or you can open up a new one when you have at least five thousand. Above that, you will see, we have certificate of deposit specials, right now we have an eleven month, I know most municipalities do invest for a period of one year or less, on a lot of their c.d’s. And that one has a very attractive yield right now of 2.10%.

Very attractive yield on a certificate of deposit. And either of those options,

you look, are earning more than what you are currently on your investment

accounts. Councilman Myers asked how often do these rates change?

Ms. Schaefer said a lot of times our rates are on a monthly basis but they are subject to change at any time based on the economic position. But the no penalty certificate that I was talking about, once you locked into that, we guarantee that rate for nine months. Think of it like a money market investment, with a guaranteed rate. But yes, its very specific for today’s rate. How are accounts are set up, you would have online access if you choose, the money could be transferred between the transaction account, the money


Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 7


management, money market account, checking account, the nine month no penalty certificate of deposit would require a telephone call to transfer out of that, but the funds are easily accessible for the various accounts, at the branch, online transfers for whomever that is authorized. I think the subject of checks came up when we were talking to Sandy,if you do decide to go with us, we would supply you with a certain number of checks to replenish with what you have not used at this time. What questions do you have for me? Councilman Allar asked what minimum balance requirements do you

have for example for checking? Ms. Schaefer said there are minimum balance requirements on the checking accounts. You will see on there that

there are a couple tiers on the checking accounts. The first is an organizational account that are on here. There are 1000 paper items a month.

Including checks deposited. Then there are tiers, 1 to 50, 250, 500 etc. for

each transaction. There is a wire transfer, fee schedule. No monthly maintenance fee, no minimum balances. I think 1000 would be more than you should use. The secretary said fifty would be too low but 250 would be good. Ms. Schaefer said if we start you out and you need to go higher than

we could adjust it. Councilman Noll asked on the C.D.’s what are the penalties for withdrawl? Ms. Schaefer said basically on the back there,

one year or less its ninety days, if you have any idea that you might need it,

use the one year or less. If you take it out before the maturity date, there is a penalty. So there is a fee. Any other questions? Councilman Snyder said I

don’t think so. Ms. Schaefer said if you decide to go with us, we will need the employer group letter sent to us, you will received response in one to

two weeks. I will call Sandy with information requested by the solicitor.


Councilman Snyder said next on the agenda, is Rudy Kocman/ Doug Truax

from Kocman Insurance. Just to let you know we do have an ordinance

that is advertised for adoption at 7:30PM, so I may have to interrupt you

when we get there. Unless you can wrap things up in three minutes. Mr. Truax said I can go through this pretty quickly. Everything in my head except for one form that has to be signed yet. The secretary gave Mr. Truax was given paperwork that was asked for. Mr. Truax what I have given you is a schedule telling what your current premium that ended at midnight on the

1st with EMC. What their renewal premium offer was. And what we also,

have gone to U. S. Specialty for the liability for the retention basins/dam.

First two items I want to deal with, first of all the public officials liability


Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 8


and the public officials liability is up this year, and the reason for that is

its broadening coverages with the span that it provides as far as for zoning

activity. A very valuable coverage has been added and the premium difference we are putting on all of our public officials liability. The

Workmen’s Compensation is your biggest increase and the final figures

are always subject to audit but you do have two claims that took place in

2006, they are at the point that they are being charged against your

experience mode done by the Pennsylvania Compensation Bureau. I know you were made aware of it by your secretary at budget time, as was discussed by us. You have one more year to go, they go three years for

letting a claim affect your workmen’s comp. Any questions on either one of those? Councilman Noll asked what happens to the experience mode after that time period is up? Mr. Truax said it goes back to 1. There is a pretty

significant law change, the law changed a couple years ago, it use to be that whatever the claim was rendering, what they did do enact a provision that

they can not increase the experience mode of a factor of more than .25.

Questions came up when we received some correspondence from Sandy,

on the retention basin/dams on the liability exposure. I went to EMC

not expecting to have a problem. And they said oh no, no liability on the

dam. I had a meeting, we had a meeting, Rudy in the later part of April with

EMC’s representative, they came down took pictures. I really thought EMC

would supply the liability coverage. I am very happy that U. S. Speciality,

gave us a quote that will be attached, for your property vehicles, general liability, and umbrella and equipment for $700.00 more than what EMC

without any coverage on the dam. They have provided, not only the existence of the dams hazard volatility, which is the standard, which is if someone goes on the premises and injuries himself or work is being done,

work is being done cause other bodily injury. They also include, dam

failure. I gave it them, they will provide us with one million from dam

failure. Damages to cars or property damage. Damages downstream,

that was something we felt was quite exceptional. Basically what I have

shown you here on one page, why the premiums are what they are, what we’ve done. Councilman Allar said EMC had provided earthquake coverage? Can U.S. Specialty provide that too. Mr. Truax said I don’t know I’d have to look that up. Councilman Allar said failure due to an earthquake.

Liability, before that we had that. Mr. Truax said apparently they say on

the liability on the property part of it. I see that, I was under the assumption that liability doesn’t have to provide it but. There is a clause in municipal

Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 9


policies and they have fourteen that items, and it says if these do not specifically appear on your general liability, they are not covered.

Councilman Allar said but we never had liability? Mr. Truax said not with EMC. Now with Selective we did have but we moved Selective because

of the workmen’s comp problem. We couldn’t get a workmen’s comp line, so we had to move the whole thing. Apparently within, this will be the second year, there was no mention of the exclusion of the liability coverage.

The property coverage was provided. Selective did not, was one of the ones, we sent it to. We would keep that workman’s comp out. EMC would stay on the workmen’s comp. Selective declined, they are not longer covering physical property and general liability on any dams or retention basin types.

Councilman Snyder asked any billing that you give to the municipality will

it will be have a breakdown with the cost associated with the dams versus

the borough’s general liability. Mr. Truax said the general liability it should have it on there, if not I can get it. Councilman Snyder said because we bill

that back as a separate cost to York Township and Dallastown Borough as far as any insurance costs. Mr. Truax said okay. Councilman Snyder said as long as we have that by the end of the year, that we can be in touch. We just

have, out of this $5600.00, say a $1000.00 is costs associated with the dam.

Mr. Truax said I don’t know what it would be. The secretary said Denise figured that out for me. Mr. Truax asked if you will be here tomorrow?  The

secretary said yes. I have one form to bring in, the property schedule. The

secretary come down and I’ll be here. Mr. Truax said I’ll stop down. Councilman Allar asked can you qualify that earthquake business, earth

quake not being quoted. Mr. Truax said I will. Councilman Allar said to see what it would be. Councilman Noll asked how much more is this than what we budgeted. The secretary said its about $1000.00 more than what we

budgeted. Councilman Noll said that includes the dam? The secretary said just for the dam its about $500.00. I think the workmen’s comp is about

that much. Next year we will have to pick it up a little bit. Councilman Noll said maybe next year we would take in consideration the other two who contribute. The secretary said on the budget you don’t divide it by three.

When I get the money, it will be going into miscellaneous income. I will be billing that yes, this past January when I billed it you didn’t have liability

on the dams, to bill Dallastown and York Township. Next year it will be property coverage and liability, it will be billed to Dallastown and York

Township. The line item on the budget is what it costs the borough to actually pay the bill. That goes into the miscellaneous income account.

Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 10


The secretary said the policies are already signed, it expired at June 1st at midnight or we wouldn’t have coverage. I left information for Sam to review and I signed off on it. Tried to get the best coverage. I wanted to let you guys know what was going on. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight. Mr. Truax said nice to see you all again.


Adjournment of Regular Meeting to open up hearing


A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the regular meeting at 7:41PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.

Councilman Snyder said meeting is in recess.


Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02


Councilman Snyder said I’d like to call to order a special hearing to speak

about Ordinance 2009-02. Which is the ordinance of Yoe Borough, York

County Pennsylvania,requiring installation of key boxes or entry systems on certain properties located within the Borough of Yoe required by the fire

chief and providing penalties for violation thereof. I did notice that there was some discussion last month, in the minutes, any other discussion. Councilman Myers said the only thing that I ask is that since they’re worried

about time, not feeling that a year is sufficient, that we go to a two year

program. That way I know that within in two years they have to. Would

that be okay? Or just keep it as a year? Solicitor Solymos said its up to you,

you’re going to make the call on that, it seems to me that one year is

plenty of time. If you want to extend it two, I think its not a material change to the ordinance. I don’t think we’re going to re-advertise. That’s up to

you folks. Councilman Snyder said just my own opinion, I would be afraid,

me personally, I would think it would be in material, no disrespect to you,

I think it would be material aspect of this ordinance because you’re talking about the affective date, how long you’re actually have to come into

compliance. And I think if someone wanted to challenge it, they said

say you didn’t hold the public hearing to change it from a two years and

therefore my rights were violated or something. I think we either keep it at one year, go with it, or advertise it to change it to the two years so. Since

there was a little discussion about that, personally if all the estimates that you were given for six hundred bucks, is a kosher number. I think a year

to come up with that is sufficient. Because along with that, we’re not

Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02                  Page 11


passing an ordinance that’s discussing fees associated with false

alarms. And again I’ll go on record, my biggest hang up on this

ordinance was how it was going to impact the local community and small business man, and when I found it, it was only affected by those that have

automatic alarms. Its just like, well that is a no brainer then. If you have

an automatic alarm and it goes off, you don’t want someone busting in

your doors and then you’re responsible to keep it secure, only to find out

it was a false alarm. I think this is a good, give and take, that we’re not

saying, hey after one false alarm, we’re going to whap you a $500.00 fine.

Which could happen, if you get some kind of electrical surges or something.

May not be something in the system, but you had an electrical surge and

you had a false alarm. And at the point, I think there is a good balance here

between the necessity of the small business man as well as the needs of

the fire department. I think a year to come up with $600.00 bucks, I mean.

Councilman Noll said the cost is about $255.00 to $350.00 for the box.

Councilman Snyder said I think the other cost is going to be the installation.

To get someone to install it, hopefully there’s fee involved for. Solicitor

Solymos said being the nature of being what it is, they are going to wait

to the end of the first year to get it, or wait to the end of the second year

to that. Then they’re going to come back and say I’m not in compliance.

Think about that. Councilman Noll said since nobody came back, we had a couple of people last time, if there is anybody that needs any information

I printed stuff out from the website and printed one of the knox box applications. The secretary said I’ll leave the folder out for this month

then. Councilman Allar asked Barry, is the fire company going to be making

contact with the business in the future? Do you know who has them?

Councilman Myers said we are aware of whom has them. We have a pretty

good idea of whom has them. Councilman Allar said I think it would be a good idea to contact them, let’s say don’t have it now. They might be

more friendly to go along with it rather than hey I have to get a fire alarm.

A year I think is plenty of time. Councilman Noll said for those who

never saw one, this is a knox box, take a look at it. We use it, very

commonly. Councilman Snyder asked any further discussion from council?

Are there any public comments on the ordinance? A motion was made by

Councilman Noll to ordain Ordinance 2009-02. The motion was seconded

by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it

ordained. Before we close out this hearing, I know we have the resolution

to go with that. However, its ordinance, our mayor is incompacitated.

Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02                           Page 12


Can we adopt the resolution, without having the mayor’s signature

on the ordinance. The secretary said you adopted other ordinance without the mayor being here. Solicitor Solymos said absolutely. Councilman

Snyder said I was just waiting, because of this resolution too.


Closing of the Public Hearing


A motion was made by Councilman Howett to close the public hearing at

7:49PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor.

Councilman Snyder said hearing is closed.


Councilman Snyder said I’d like to reconvene the regular council meeting

at 7:50PM for Yoe Borough. Since we just passed ordinance 2009-02,

we also have the resolution 2009-10.


Resolution          Councilman Snyder said which discusses the actually criteria

2009-10             as set forth in that ordinance for the knox boxes. I think

everyone has had the opportunity to go over them over the

past couple months. Solicitor Solymos said I need to

address some things. In our April meeting Seth made

a suggestion for a change, that change was made in

number 2 of the resolution, if you have the original

resolution. After the meeting, Seth sent down a memorandum,

I reviewed it, he had two other suggestions. Those are

incorporated as well. The last two numbers of the resolution.

Those two numbers have been added. Seth reviewed it.

I guess you don’t have a problem with those. The resolution

with the changes is what is before the council now.

Councilman Snyder said and I think Seth had already gone

over what he proposed. Councilman Noll said the
Emergency contact list and the fire chief being in

charge of it. Councilman Snyder said if there is no

further discussion do I have a motion. A motion to

resolve Resolution 2009-10, by Councilman Myers.

The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett.

All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.



Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 13


Councilman Snyder said now we will continue on with visitors.

They were the only ones that I had on my list, are there any visitors

that would like to be recognized.


David Naylor said David Naylor, 93 E. Pennsylvania Avenue. I

apologize for not being formally on the agenda. I’m here in reference

to N. Charles Alley. I’m here and have been in the past, to claim

title to N. Charles Alley. I went back to and documented the council

meeting back in 1997. My efforts have been constrained by the office

hours. I do have and would like to read, several sections from

various minutes, from 1997 to June 2008. I tried to make copies but

ran out of ink. As to the information provided in the past, I expressed

my interest in the borough. I and my attorney tried to claim a quiet

title to the alley. Mr. Solymos you are aware of that. Solicitor

Solymos said I talked to your attorney at several occasions. We’ve being working fine with it. I don’t know if he’s been back to you. We talked

Friday. I gave him an approach on what he might what to specifically

doing, and I reported that back to borough council. Mr. Naylor said I

haven’t heard from him. Solicitor Solymos said give Gene a call.

Mr. Naylor if I may at this point read from the minutes, I have been here in the past. I have a letter for all of you, expressing my interest in the alley.

In 1997, from the minutes, I want to purchase from the borough, North

Charles Alley. To get information about acquiring the alley. Mrs. Stump

said the borough doesn’t own the alley, and even if the borough had, over

some period of time, the rights to open the alley, it didn’t mean we own the land underneath. Mrs. Stump advised Mr. Naylor to get a surveyor or lawyer. Mrs. Stump also added that even though there are no public rights

there, there may be some private ones. Mr. Naylor may have do some research at the courthouse. There are several in between I have be unable to get access to. Solicitor Solymos said Mr. Naylor said I think I can explain to borough council after to talking to your attorney what you are seeking here and borough council may have questions of me. The borough has an alley.

There was an action of quiet title against a private individual. The borough

wasn’t named. In reviewing this matter and checking with Sam, it was confirmed that it is a borough alley. At which point, you are not a part of

whatever they do between the two of them, its between the two of them and let’s acknowledge that. Mr. Campbell and I discussed that. I reported


Visitors (cont.)                                    Page 14


back to Mr. Campbell, either withdraw that action or what have, because

he’s trying to close the road based about something that happened between two private parties. It is my recommendation to the borough to bring action, open it, reimburse the borough for any property damages. Then when I spoke Mr. Campbell again, last Friday, Mr. Campbell inquired as to

whether or not the borough was, would consider vacating the alley. That’s

a procedure where a borough relinquishes the rights to a road and it can be done two ways, one is by motion of council and one by the person filing a formal application. Then the borough must, once they get the application,

hold a hearing on a the vacation and so forth. What I did, you have the copies of the letter I sent out, I said I didn’t know what your feeling were about vacation, borough council. But that I thought in any event, borough

council would want Mr. Naylor to be moving party rather than the borough

with respect to vacation documents and all that. And Mr. Naylor assume

the cost and so forth. And he just said here, I want to know what the costs are. So assuming borough council is willing to vacate, I think we need to

prepare a legal document. Then the question becomes, does this municipality want to vacate this alley? I don’t know whether you should. But that is the issue before you. I was led to believe by Mr. Campbell that Mr. Naylor was

specifically told by employees or borough council, that the municipality didn’t care. But obviously or unfortunately, that’s not binding, you must take formal action to go ahead and vacate. Who may have told you that? Mr.

Naylor said Mrs. Stump was one. Solicitor Solymos said that was back in 1997.  Mr. Naylor said that dates back. Solicitor Solymos said that is before my time, that’s hard to believe. Mr. Naylor said July 2005, if I may again,

July 2005, spoke to the mayor and zoning officer about the alley next to

my property about the borough abandoning and adding it to my deed. Was

told to draft a letter in this matter and give it to council. Sam Snyder stated

the alley in question was proposed but never opened and officially adopted

by the municipality once an alley is proposed the borough has 21 years in

which to act upon it. The borough never did so and so the borough has no

rights to it. The borough cannot say they are abandoning the rights because

they have no rights. So again, I really think whatever reason I was acting

on this information. I’m just trying to understand why I did what I did.

That is why my attorney didn’t contact the borough because several times,

I was told that it was abandoned and it wasn’t adopted. Why nobody researched it previously I don’t know. That’s where it stands, I am

petitioning the council that they would consider abandoning the alley,

Visitors (cont.)                                    Page 15


vacating the alley. The possibility of reimbursing the borough for that

cost. Solicitor Solymos said I’ve only done vacation work in a

township, I would assume that it’s identical in a borough. I would assume

its identical but I want to take a quick look as to the nature and extent

of a petition and as to whether this is an adequate application or if you need a formal application. That’s all I’m going to do. And then get back to

you and Campbell and give him the thoughts of council on this. But

certainly you would not be acting on the vacation without a formal petition.

I don’t know if this is a formal petition. It’s a request but I don’t know if this covers under the borough code, is enough. And if not, I will tell Mr. Campbell what we need per the borough code, whether it’s a formal

pleading, or whether it’s a letter detailing the exact, we all know where it is,

I don’t, but everyone else knows this road is. I think your request would have to specifically identify how long it is, where it is, name and so on and so forth. And then it be presented. And I think, what it has to do, you have

to advertise it for the public. And I suspect that, that probably could be done by July. Councilman Myers asked there are two different ways that the borough could get rid of it? Solicitor Solymos said the borough can act on

its own, vacate it on its own, without discussing it. You didn’t have application, you just didn’t want it. Councilman Myers asked so we act on our own, what happens then. Solicitor Solymos said well you’re going to have to pay me, we have to prepare the vacation paperwork, do all that stuff. Maybe you don’t want to do that. We’re dollar sensitive. Councilman Myer said if we say we do want to do that, is there something that he reimburses what monies that would cost us. Solicitor Solymos said I would rather have

a petition come from the applicant outside, and then the expense would be.

Its just like you would be applying  to the zoning hearing board. Alright.

Rather than the zoning hearing board doing the paperwork for your application. They make application for a hearing before borough council

for the specific situation. Councilman Noll said does that hearing happen,

say at 7:30 during the borough council meeting? Solicitor Solymos said the ones I handled we’ve always done during meetings. Councilman Noll said I was thinking about costs, if you have to bring everyone together for a separate meeting night. Solicitor Solymos said well I think that when you

vacate, you may well need a stenographer. I don’t know. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying for us to give him a cost, I think that its

best that its coming from request from them and that way. Councilman Myers said let me ask you this, if there way that we can tell him, does

Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 16


he have to go through all this stuff for us to say at the very end to say,

sorry we’re not going to do it. Or is that something we can say, yeah

we’ll do it. Why should someone have to. Solicitor Solymos said I don’t think you commit to do it until you’ve got an application and you said it.

It’s a catch 22. What you can do, is acknowledge that there’s a good likelihood that borough council would do this, or might do this. But you can’t bind yourself. Councilman Myers said right. Solicitor Solymos said because you don’t have a petition before you technically. Councilman Noll said you would say that there is a consensus, then, that the borough council has a consensus that. Councilman Allar said its not citizen friendly.

Mr. Naylor said I already laid out $2000.00 acting on information provided me by the council. Be that what it is. That’s why I’m concerned about what its going to cost me again, if there is anyway I can get a number. I mean if its going to cost me an outrageous. Solicitor Solymos said he’s asking you to vacate, we don’t usually sell it to him. But vacation would not involve a sale, it would only involve the cost. Councilman Myers said can we sell it to him

for a dollar, would that make it easier? Solicitor Solymos said I don’t see why you couldn’t but you still have to even when you are selling public property, you’ve got to advertise, everyone has to have a fair chance to bid on it. I’m serious. The application is better, then you notify the adjoining landowners and so forth. Its not inconceivable that an adjoining landowner,

doesn’t want it vacated because they use it. I don’t know. You are the only

one that would be doing that. Mr. Naylor said no, actually there is another

adjoining landowner, my attorney in the process to get my little strip, got documentation from the adjoining neighbor, 105 Pennsylvania Avenue.

And the guy across Pennsylvania. Solicitor Solymos said let me suggest this to you, it would not appear and I’m a lawyer. You can not quote me that I guaranteed you anything. But it would appear that there is a good likelihood or a fair likelihood that if you filed an application to vacate that you would

probably carry through with borough council. Let me be the bad guy and you guys don’t have to do anything okay. And if I’m wrong in that regard, borough council members pipe up now. Thank you, I hear nothing. I will talk to Mr. Campbell. Councilman Myers said let me ask you this, if I as

a council member say I don’t have a problem with we get rid of that piece of property, does that mean anything. If any one of these guys say I don’t have a problem. Solicitor Solymos said until. Councilman Myers said so he knows where we’re coming from. Solicitor Solymos said you’ve heard it.


Visitors(cont.)                                    Page 17


Councilman Allar said you want to go around the table. Councilman

Myers said that’s all I’m saying, I don’t have a problem with getting

rid of the property. I don’t know if that’s legal or not. Councilman Allar said we never use it. Councilman Myers said right. Councilman Allar said and don’t think we’ll ever use it again, I don’t have a problem with it. Councilman Myers said that’s correct, but that doesn’t mean tomorrow we can’t go in and put a black top highway in. Solicitor Solymos said a formal

petition could be filed, I will do quick legal research but that’s my recollection of the nuts and bolts of vacation. I will tell Mr. Campbell.

Mr. Naylor said I had the alley surveyed. Solicitor Solymos said that

would be good. Here’s what we want to abandon to attach. That is fine.

As for lawyer being a bad guy that is highly inconceivable. Solicitor Solymos said I completely agree with you on that. I can only speak for myself I can’t speak for all my brethren. Councilman Snyder said I don’t know how we can give him a cost on that. Solicitor Solymos said when I look at, I haven’t done it for so long. For all I know they’ve changed the

way to do it. Mr. Naylor said here is the legal description of the survey.

Solicitor Solymos said I’m still going to call Gene and let him know the sense I get from council. They’re non committed. Mr. Naylor said and the fact that it was expressed previously. Solicitor Solymos said you’ll have to wait and see. Mr. Naylor said thank you. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight, are there any other visitors that would like to be recognized.


Solicitor’s Report


Solicitor Solymos said only two things that I got feed back on after our last meeting.


Title                   Solicitor Solymos said one thing was that Jason wanted to

Certifi-         have a title certification. I sent that out to Jason. I don’t

cation          if you have it in the file or not. I directed it directly to

                  Jason, it’s a certification. I signed it and approved it.

                  And Jason is going to direct it to the CDBG, whatever

                  that grant is. Its done, I’ve taken care of it. Councilman                  

                  Noll said that’s DCNR, was that for the park? Solicitor

                  Solymos said this is for the park. Councilman Noll said

                  that’s DCNR then. Solicitor Solymos said well, okay.

                  It says CDBG. The secretary said but that’s different then,

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                                    Page 18


                  you’re going to talk about the contract with CDBG.

                  He’s talking about the title certification for DCNR

                  for the park improvement project. Now that is what

                  you sent to Jason, and he needs to forward that as

                  part, before we get our money from DCNR, correct.

                  Councilman Snyder said yes. Solicitor Solymos

                  said you got that. The secretary said I don’t. Solicitor

                  Solymos said somebody’s got that, I can reproduce

                  it if need be.


Contract         Solicitor Solymos said yesterday afternoon Sandy

for                   was unable to get ahold of Sam, the CDBG grant

CDBG         contract, in which the municipality was asked to

                  sign. I don’t know if you folks have it or seen

                  it. The secretary said only Sam has the original. I just

                  got it on Friday. Solicitor Solymos said its two and

                  half pages of terms. And starting with number six,

                  it is some seven and half pages of general terms and

                  conditions. I reviewed the general terms and conditions.

                  Its standard language for these type of contracts. I don’t

                  have a problem with any of it. Besides that, you are not

                  going to get your money if you don’t. Even if I had

                  a problem and somebody else didn’t. What I don’t know

                  is, what you agreed to get your $100,000.00. There is a

                  scope of services that has to be reviewed, that scope

                  that the borough thought, that was involved here. That

                  involves items A through L and number one. Time and

                  performance, this is to be terminated December 31, 2009.

                  Did you know that, I don’t that? I wasn’t involved with

                  the original negotiations. These type of grants Jason

                  was going to handle. Its for $100,000.00. And discusses

                  program income, I don’t know if that was agreed with

                  the engineer when reviewing that. That’s my report on

                  that. A motion was made to sign that contract with

                  York County Planning for the CDBG park improvement

                  grant by Councilman Noll. The motion was seconded

                  by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder

                  said motion carried.


Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                                    Page 19


Councilman Snyder said that’s what I had. Old Business, I would like

to discuss on the ongoing status of the Chronister matter and I’d like

to that in executive session. That does involve litigation.


Councilman Snyder said before we do that, let’s clean up some of this

other stuff.


Resolution         Councilman Snyder said I guess we’re up to Resolution

2009-11             2009-11 for Act 32. We briefly discussed that, that’s

where they sent York Adams Tax Bureau. Solicitor

Solymos said they’re asking you and I reviewed that

resolution, its fine, to do what you have to do with the

bureau. Councilman Snyder said they want one voting

delegate and one alternate to represent the subdivision.

I figured we could, I think its Bruce currently for the

tax bureau. I don’t know why they need this, I haven’t

figured it out. The secretary said I don’t think people

are coming, they’re trying to say your vote matters.

Councilman Snyder said I thought it had something to

do with the new Act 32 that was past. So. A motion

to resolve Resolution 2009-11, and we’ll keep our

representation the same until we reorganize until

re election. A motion to resolve that was made by

Councilman Myers. The motion was seconded

by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman

Snyder said so be it resolved.


Update         Councilman Snyder said this was brought up two

of Flood         meetings ago, and we’re getting to the point, and I

Plain                  looked at the minutes and I didn’t see any action was

Ordinance         taken on it last month. Basically we need to update

                  our flood plain ordinance to come in compliance

                  with the Federal model ordinance. That has a September

                  deadline. That job has not been given to either Pete

                  or to our engineer to do. I think Jason briefly looked

                  over it and said there, ours is pretty much in line but

                  there is going to have to be some tweaking done. So

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 20


                  we have to make a determination on whose going to

                  actually tweak our ordinance to come into compliance

                  with this. Mr. Klinedinst said Jason said in his report,

                  that he completed the flood plain ordinance, forwarded

                  comments to FEMA. He will forward the ordinance to

                  the borough solicitor, once all the comments have been

                  addressed. He’s taking care of it. We’ve done seven or

                  eight of these. Councilman Snyder said okay. Solicitor

                  Solymos said Jason is doing two for me, here and Hellam.

                  Councilman Snyder said that’s what is this is too, I guess.


Ordinance         Councilman Snyder said that ordinance is still outstanding.

2009-01             Pete has a notation for that. Our first ordinance of course

Error                  had a typographical error, it should have been effective 2010

                  instead of 2009. It was already passed and everything, we’re

                  just waiting for the revised one that has 2010 before we can

                  actually sign off on that. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll send that

                  out. The secretary said I’ll send that out along with the

                  one for tonight to the newspaper, correct? Solicitor Solymos

                  said yes.


Councilman Snyder said the only other thing was, we’re getting down to

Solicitor/Engineering. I wasn’t sure if you needed to discuss this in

executive or not. And that is, is anything you may have found out on

the enforcement notice from DEP.


Enforce-         Solicitor Solymos said I never seen it, I don’t know anything

ment                  about it. The secretary said I wasn’t instructed to send a copy.

Notice         I gave it to Jason, Sam and Tom Allar, so. I didn’t read it.

                  Councilman Snyder said from the Corps of Engineers.

                  Councilman Noll said it was resulting from the meeting that

                  was with the Army Corps of Engineers. Councilman Snyder

                  said if you can’t update us, then I guess. I just thought it

                  was a solicitor issue, that is why I had I down for the solicitor,

                  to bring it up. Mr. Klinedinst said I have it in my report, I

                  can address it when we get there. Councilman Snyder said

                  usually see what happens is that the solicitor ends up leaving.

                  And in all honestly. Councilman Allar said Sam, I think its

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 21


                  primarily for the engineer to go over. There is a cease

                  and desist order. Solicitor Solymos said I heard a rumor

                  to that affect, but I’ve never seen it. Councilman Allar said

                  the second paragraph, page 3. One issue, on one of

                  legal aspects of the basin. Dana has worked out an arrangement

                  with the Sheriff’s Department, that crews can go out there

                  and take care of all the weeds and woody growth and stuff

                  like that. Which would be very beneficial to Yoe Borough.

                  Save us costs until we do the final dredging contract. Its

                  also going to be make Red Lion happy, they’re going to

                  be dump site, they don’t want any of that. If we can pull it

                  out now then that benefits everyone. However, we don’t

                  know the definition of cease and desist at the basin, for

                  that particular waterway. Maybe John can fill us in.

                  Solicitor Solymos said John’s has seen it more than I have.

                  Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll give you the two cent tour. The

                  two cent tour is, the Army is saying the permit that was

                  issued in 1997, had a bunch of issues attached to it, including

                  providing .76 acres of wetland. And filing monitoring report,

                  survey and conservation easement and everything else.

                  Inspection took place in 2009, Army visibly saw that the

                  wetlands that had been created, partially had been destroyed.

                  They don’t think that the other wetland is going to be good.

                  They haven’t gotten the reports that they required. And

                  therefore the completed work, now this is the work from

                  1997, did not conform to the special conditions. And then

                  they gave you a cease and desist, I’m not sure what that

                  means because you’re not doing anything. Councilman

                  Allar said this is why I’m bringing up the option that we

                  have, let’s say, we have an opportunity through the Sheriff’s

                  Department to go out there and remove the trees and the

                  woody growth. It will help us and save us money if we

                  remove that before we move the soil to Red Lion. I don’t

                  think that’s what they’re look at. They’re looking at wetlands.

                  That is where this is coming from. But we’re going to

                  need some verification on that. I told Dana set up the MOU

                  but since we don’t have a start date. We don’t want have

                  any more problems. Mr. Klinedinst said well, the third


Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 22


                  paragraph here, you guys are all going to jail. Councilman

                  Snyder said here’s what my concern. Solicitor Solymos

                  said for federal rules, you may get 60 days in Allenwood.

                  Councilman Snyder said here’s what my concerns were,

                  which is why I thought this was a legal issue. I’m looking

                  at what they’re alleging. Number one, I disagree with,

                  we complied. Number two, I disagree with, we complied.

                  Number three, I disagree with, we complied. Councilman

                  Allar said they want a response from the engineer.
                  Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m getting at. Then

                  we did not comply with number 7, we did not comply with

                  number eight, we did not comply with number 9 from

                  what I can tell. However those issues should have been taken

                  care of by Rettew Associates in 97. Now what I read in the

                  minutes, where you’re looking at trying to get this wetland

                  mitigated in York Township somewhere else at a cost of

                  $5000.00. And I’m thinking to myself, excuse my French,

                  I’m damned if we should put out one penny when this, we

                  complied with the first three. We should tell them that and

                  the other ones we, we are the permittee holder so the buck

                  stops with us. But by God, I would have gotten Rettew on

                  the phone and said, okay folks, lets pony up here and

                  bring them on board. And that’s a legal issue, that was

                  a breach of contract and I don’t have a problem of trying

                  to mitigate it down in York Township but I’ll be damned

                  if we should pay $5000.00, which we don’t have by the

                  way to mitigate this when we need to be talking with

                  Rettew. Mr. Klinedinst said, here’s what the letter says

                  to me, the first two pages, say here’s all the conditions

                  you did meet. We came down and we looked at it. Here’s

                  what we’re asking for. On the third page, it identifies

                  0.76 acres of wetlands on an alternate site. Number two,

                  do a wetland mitigation plan as part of the .76 site and

                  they do address conservation easement. All three of those

                  are about the new .76 acre of mitigation. Which I believe

                  that after talking to Jake Romig have been identified

                  where we have included our .76 acres and that goes away.

Solictor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 23


                  But what this is saying to me, Mike Danko is saying, you

                  didn’t do what you were suppose to do, but if you do this,

                  we’ll sign off. Solicitor Solymos asked do we need to

                  send him a letter, can we do that. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  we need to send him a letter and we’re going to provide,

                  but you need a timeframe as to when you’re going to do

                  it. Councilman Snyder said one thing that I mean, the

                  submission is as it is. Well. Mr. Klinedinst said he’s saying

                  you didn’t do that. Those wetlands aren’t any resource, he

                  doesn’t care about that wetlands as built. Councilman Snyder

                  said I’m also concerned about the five year monitoring of

                  the new wetlands. They made that statement, we didn’t do

                  it the first time around. And oh yes we did. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said apparently they don’t have any record. Councilman

                  Allar said they don’t have any reports, I covered that with

                  him. Councilman Snyder said that’s not our fault. Maybe

                  they got lost somewhere in their office, but by God we paid

                  for them and we did them and we have copies of them.

                  Councilman Allar said what John is saying, its academic,

                  they’re not going to let us re-establish wetlands. What

                  we did or didn’t do, its not worth fighting over. We have to

                  move forward, where are the wetlands going to be moved

                  to and is that acceptable to the Corps of Engineers. Solicitor

                  Solymos asked how complex is it to response to. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said not very, as long as we can pin down the .76 acres. I’m

                  saying if you submit this information to DEP and they sign off

                  on it. If you find .76 acres of wetland, give us a wetland plan

                  and give us a conservation easement. We get the permit. If

                  you get us these things, we sign. We’re going to give you a new

                  permit but there are going to be two conditions in that new

                  permit. One, submission of as built plans on newly constructed

                  wetlands sit, and two, annual monitoring reports for five years.

                  So, if you give them, the new wetlands and the conservation

                  easement, they’re going reissue the permit with the requirement

                  you provide, that you will monitor it for five years. That’s

                  something you have to decide. Councilman Noll asked how

                  sure is this new sight. Councilman Allar said as I mentioned

                  to John and to Steve, we’re going to have to get together with

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 24


                  York Township and Jake Romig, to nail all that down.

                  Nail timelines down and get some sort of okay to go

                  along with John’s submission to Corps of Engineers

                  so they know, that we’re not just making this up.

                  We have an actually property, and the owner saying

                  yes, he’s will to allow us ¾ of an acre. So all that

                  has to be diagramed before John responds. We have

                  120 days, we’ve already lost 30 days. So we’re down

                  to 90 days now to meet their deadline. But all this

                  means is meeting with York Township, I already

                  talked to Miller, he doesn’t seem to have a problem.

                  Talked to Jake, that was about a month ago. And I

                  have a call into him. And John, you’re working with

                  Steve, and someone have a sit down so we can go

                  through. Mr. Klinedinst, when Steve gets back from

                  surgery, we’ll be sitting down and trying to help you

                  with that part of it. The issue becomes, you have to

                  respond. What is your position? If you are willing to

                  accept the conditions to move ¾ acres of wetlands

                  someplace else, and get a conservation easement on

                  it and you are prepared to give them a built as plan,

                  and you are willing to monitor it for five years. It all

                  goes away. If you want to fight that, you can fight that.

                  There are courses of appeal to the program. Councilman

                  Allar said if we fight it, they will come back with both

                  feet standing, that we are not compliant. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said I just wanted you to see it as an option. Councilman

                  Snyder said no, what I’m more concerned about, is the

                  way this is not stymied, our entire dredging project. I

                  am concerned that we are going to be spending

                  engineering dollars, somebody’s dollars to work out

                  this issue basically. Okay, that was not planned for by

                  this municipality. And what I enumerated in the very

                  beginning, that $5000.00 figure that came up at last

                  month’s meeting with the wetland mitigation. And I’m

                  looking at adding a cause of action, which as why I

                  was I was looking at our solicitor, because I’m looking

                  at a cause of action at Rettew. And I’m thinking, somebody

Visitors(cont.)                           Page 25


                  I would have thought you would have been brought on

                  into this, the engineer and the solicitor need to be working

                  on this, to be getting Rettew on board because we’re

                  expecting compensation for something. Because we don’t                            have the kind of money to go out, I don’t care if they

                  give us the wetlands. We don’t have money to say, we’re

                  going to reimburse York Township $5000.00.  And what

                  he’s saying, we can’t even give them a response, to say

                  we’ll accept this without even having that sit down with

                  York Township and knowing that this is going to happen.

                  So, we got to put those in affect first. Solicitor Solymos

                  said send a letter out to the Corps of Engineers, tell them

                  that its being reviewed by our engineer and our attorney

                  and we are optimistic that we will resolve this well within

                  the timeframe. Let them. Councilman Allar said this

                  was sent by certified mail, Sandy signed for it. Mr.

                  Klinedinst said it wouldn’t hurt anything but Mike Danko

                  knows it. One of the other things that I have on the report,

                  is the waiver of permit for the dredging project to Danko.

                  These are all inter related. He knows we are applying for

                  that, what the Army Corps of Engineers wants is to get

                  the past messed cleaned up, until we start anew. That is

                  my reading. Solicitor Solymos said I haven’t read the letter,

                  some of you folks can refresh my recollection. I thought

                  back in maybe February, January, or sometime, there was

                  discussion about this, someone was going to get ahold of,

                  maybe Jason, or maybe it was Tom was going to get ahold

                  of Rettew and tell Rettew to get on the ball and give us

                  information that somebody, that somebody wanted information.

                  Councilman Allar said Jason contacted Rettew, Rettew failed

                  to do reviews. But again, that’s not what they’re asking for.

                  What John is saying is, we have to decide where the wetlands

                  are actually going to be. We can go back to Rettew, but how

                  are we going to hold them responsible. There is no issue out

                  there, the wetlands are going to fail because too much drainage,

                  too much power coming down in the creek. Rettew is going

                  to say we failed to file the monitor reports, that has nothing

                  to do with the wetlands. The wetlands failed, they got silted

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 26


                  over. Yoe Borough is responsible. You can’t hold Rettew.

                  And even if you could, whatever money you save on

                  engineering, you’re going to spend with Pete on legal fees.

                  Solicitor Solymos said my time would be 1/10th of what

                  the time, you guys would have to put in. Councilman

                  Allar said that doesn’t change the result, the result failed

                  because the wetlands failed. Councilman Snyder said they’re

                  not complaining on the fact that they failed, they’re

                  complaining, of what we adverted and what we did not do

                  and now they’re saying because they have failed, we’re not

                  going to allow you to put them back where they were. They’re

                  saying, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, which we did

                  do. And the other three things had to do with the easement

                  for the as built. Which is Rettew’s responsibility. Solicitor

                  Solymos said I haven’t reviewed, I can’t say, I’ve known

                  John Klinedinst for thirty five years. I respect John’s

                  ability. So. You guys worked it out with him. And if you

                  find out that the legal issues need to get back to me on,

                  get back to me on. I  don’t know. Councilman Allar said

                  you can’t re establish the wetlands, remember when this was

                  built in 98, it didn’t have all these developments upstream.

                  The amount of water that is coming down is four times

                  what it was. It is clear, that its impossible to put wetlands

                  in Basin 1. Even in Basin 2, it’s the wrong type. Councilman

                  Snyder said I’m just saying, we do not have the money to

                  pursue this, we have to pursue it, and we’re missing an

                  opportunity of not going after Rettew and bringing them in

                  on board of this and see how they can help, even its to give

                  us the $5000.00, that was discussed last month that York

                  Township is looking at mitigating these wetlands. I mean

                  we don’t have this money. Mr. Klinedinst said the five years

                  of reports, they are liable. Councilman Snyder said we did

                  that, but because we are moving the wetlands they are looking

                  at five years. Councilman Allar said that wasn’t Rettew’s

                  responsibility. Councilman Snyder said it was ours and

                  we did that. Councilman Allar said it was actually Kinsley,

                  they subbed, through some sort of agricultural type that thing,

                  to actually monitor. The secretary said I don’t remember

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 27


                  seeing a reports like that. Councilman Snyder said I remember

                  a report with pictures of the dam. The secretary said that

                  was the dam inspection report that is done every year. That

                  is all I’ve seen in the last couple years. I don’t remember

                  seeing a wetland report. Councilman Allar said when they

                  did an inspection out there, he would call Harrisburg.

                  Mr. Klinedinst said I recognize that particular aspect of

                  it , I think what Mike Danko was saying off the record, there

                  are no wetlands there anymore. You have a permit, but they’re

                  not there. Councilman Noll said what if magically we come

                  up with the $5000.00. How long would it take? Mr. Klinedinst

                  said I think if you respond to them within 120 days, you are

                  sitting there holding a request for a waiver for a permit. In my

                  mind, they are related, if  you get a valid answer, maybe get

                  the waiver for the permit. Councilman Noll said and at that

                  point get moving for pricing done. Mr. Klinedinst said the

                  two issues, I’ve been down to look at this, I looked at the basin

                  with Tom. I know a lot more about this now than I ever did.

                  If the request, you get the response and the response is okay,

                  that you request for a waiver, I’m going deny the waiver. You

                  need a joint permit. That is a six month project. You

                  theoretically could bid, but you can’t start the work. I was

                  talking to Tom, I’m not sure what all this is funded by, which

                  one is used. Jason has confirmed that the Growing Greener

                  grant is still out. I don’t know about that $15,000.00 county aid.

                  You have inter-municipal cooperation with different

                  municipalities. I assume they’re valid. The key right now in

                  my mind, whether your next step, is the answer you file in

                  this letter. Councilman Allar said that is why we keep coming

                  back to we need to get together with York Township, Jake

                  Romig whether the wetlands can be allocated to us. Get

                  the appropriate documentation. We actually do have a site

                  identified. Councilman Noll said if we decide to do this

                  project,yes we obligated , we have to go forward. Mr.

                  Klinedinst said there are two separate issues, but related.

                  Councilman Noll said we’re going to wind up spending

                  money no matter what. Councilman Allar said we will probably

                  be fined, and end up complying anyway. Councilman Noll

Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 28

                  asked what are your thoughts on that John? Mr. Klinedinst

                  said, in my opinion, you don’t have any option. You are not

                  complying with the original permit, if you do this, we’ll

                  give an easement. Councilman Allar said we need to move

                  fast enough, that maybe they will let you dredge where you

                  want. Mr. Klinedinst said in their minds, where you want to

                  dredge in one of those wetlands. Councilman Allar said the

                  hard part is going to be getting the land. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said you’re going to take the ¾ acres from up at the

                  upper basin that you are on the permit for and you’re going

                  to move them someplace else. They’re not wetlands anymore.

                  Jake is apparently working on another site. The secretary

                  said there is one on Camp Betty Washington. Councilman

                  Allar said there are seven acres on the Mill Creek Preservation,

                  Jake Romig has submitted to York Township, and Jake is

                  working on a grant. I don’t know how much money is involved.

                  He was made aware that we would probably be needing

                  ¾ acres. I don’t know. Councilman Noll asked is that

                  $5000.00 a firm figure? Councilman Allar said no its not

                  a firm figure until we sit down with York Township and Jake

                  and find out. I don’t know. We don’t know. We don’t know

                  what the expense is going to be to run the cameras. Councilman

                  Snyder said so to be able to put this to bed, because we’re

                  still under Solicitor’s Report, one thing I need clarified,

                  because I hear a lot of, we need to do this, and we need to do

                  that. I also see a new face sitting, and there is going to be

                  another new face sitting here next month. When you are

                  saying, we need to sit down with York Township and Jake

                  Romig, are you talking about C. S. Davidson or are you talking

                  one of us? Councilman Allar said I think C. S. Davidson needs

                  to lead us. Councilman Snyder said okay, we need to know who

                  is taking the lead on this, because the clock is ticking and

                  again, we need to know again if C. S. Davidson is taking the

                  lead on this, who from C. S. Davidson is representing the

                  borough. Mr. Klinedinst said the only thing that is changing is

                  we’re proposing to switch from Jason Reichard to Steve

                  Malesker. The commitment that I will make to you is, if

                  you direct C. S. Davidson the directive to monitor this by the

                  deadline, it will be done. Jason will be involved, Steve will

         Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 29


                  be involved and John Klinedinst will be involved. It will

                  get done. That is my commitment. If you need me.

                  Councilman Snyder said I still think if we are looking at

                  money here, that we don’t have, and that we don’t know

                  what it is, I think we should have engineer whomever it

                  is, to discuss legal options, because there was definitely

                  a breach here by Rettew. I think we should be going

                  after them for something, even if its. Solicitor Solymos

                  said I’d be happy to discuss that with John, together

                  on that, on the issues. Councilman Snyder said what our

                  professional engineer knows more about what these

                  conditions mean, what needs to be done, what wasn’t

                  done and how to protect these permits. Our solicitor

                  is our professional that would know how does a breach

                  of contract, in relationship to that, how the interacts. So

                  I think if we give them marching orders that the two of

                  them at least touch bases to see how we bring Rettew

                  into this. Just like Seth just brought up, now we have

                  more acreage than what we originally thought, that

                  $5000.00 figure may not be any good. We only have

                  so much money to go into there, we need to be tapping.

                  I know what you’re saying Tom, that it’s the failure

                  of the wetlands and that’s not due to not Rettew fault.

                  But at the same point, we have some very legitimate

                  issues that Rettew failed and breach of contract on it

                  that we paid for. And I think if we can get any money

                  out of them, its gonna help. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  as long as we don’t delay our response to the Army

                  Corps. Councilman Snyder said exactly and that’s why

                  the engineering aspect and the legal aspect are two

                  different things. If we have to fork out $20,000.00, by

                  God, we’re going to fork it out, so we’re not going

                  to be found not in compliance. Pete needs to know that,

                  so if we expend $20,000.00, he knows what we’re

                  going to go after, and Rettew we’re knocking on your door.

                  Solicitor Solymos said and yes, Rettew would be liable.

                  Councilman Snyder said yeah, I mean that. Solicitor

                  Solymos said I don’t if there is any liability. Councilman

         Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 30


                  Snyder said I apologize I thought you were brought up

                  on this. I mean but now we’re. Solicitor Solymos said

                  you’ve got John going, taking care of the Army Corps

                  of Engineers. But if there is, in analyzing this, if there

                  is anything the Corps of Engineers are saying, that could

                  have been avoided by any action of Rettew then we might

                  have legal action. You don’t have to make that call. If

                  Rettew had done that, this wouldn’t had happened. And

                  therefore you wouldn’t have been out on the limb.

                  Councilman Allar said Rettew had done the as built

                  easement, the wetlands would have failed any way.

                  It wouldn’t have changed. Solicitor Solymos said

                  and that’s fine. Councilman Allar said we can send

                  a letter, with the concerns by Jason, saying not doing

                  what was part of their contract, maybe we can say,

                  we request a certain amount of money for their failure

                  to perform. Solicitor Solymos said let me talk to

                  John and Jason. I think that is simple. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said if council would authorize C. S. Davidson to

                  send a response to the Army Corps of Engineers and

                  consult the solicitor on the liability issues. A motion

                  made to Councilman Noll to have C. S. Davidson

                  take the lead as to prepare a response and coordinate

                  solicitor for any potential liabilities against Rettew.

                  The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett.

                  All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.


Councilman Snyder said now we’re still under solicitor, with a request

to go into executive session.


Cease          Councilman Allar said before we go into executive session

and                  Jason asked me. There is an opportunity to work with

Desist                  the Sheriff’s Department, with the letter containing an

                  item on cease desist. You may not know tonight, but you

                  may be able to find out. By going in there , is that

                  considered a violation of the cease of desist. We currently

                  we have done lawn mowing, but we have some woody

                  growth to get out of there so when we do the dredging we

         Solicitor’s Report(cont.)                           Page 31


                  don’t have to deal with that. Mr. Klinedinst said non

                  compliance of an authorization including general

                  antiseptic use is a violation, if you are working

                  non compliant, any sort of work. You can get by

                  grass cutting. Councilman Allar said you don’t want

                  to have rodents there. I think that may fall under

                  health and safety inspection. Mr. Klinedinst said I think

                  if you don’t, you don’t want rodents. Councilman

                  Noll said we are going to walk on eggshells. Councilman

                  Snyder said you are going to take charge and coordinate

                  with Pete. Councilman Allar said I’d like to be at the

                  meeting with York Township. Mr. Klinedinst said I think

                  the first contact we’re going to make is with Jake Romig.

                  Have a meeting with him and get everyone up to date.

                  Councilman Allar asked is Dennis Henry still out there?

                  Mr. Klinedinst said no. Councilman Noll said he retired

                  in January, they have a new engineer.


                  Councilman Snyder asked anything else then before we

                  go into executive session. We also have some other things

                  with zoning in executive.


Recessing the Regular meeting at 8:50PM to go into Executive Session


                  A motion was made by Councilman Myers to recess the regular

meeting at 8:50PM to go into executive session. The motion was seconded

by Councilman Howett. All in favor.


Reconvening of the Regular Meeting at 10:14PM


                  Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect that we discussed

the litigation issues and came up with the following decisions:


A motion was made by Councilman Noll for Pete to proceed with the

litigation in the Chronister case to use his best judgment and authorize

the expense of a stenographer if so needed. The motion was seconded

by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion


Reconvening of the Regular Meeting at 10:14PM     Page 32


A motion for the solicitor to review the facts and conclusions to the

recently held zoning hearing of 105 E. Pennsylvania Avenue and to

file appropriate appeals if he deems necessary and get stenographer

report if he feels necessary by Councilman Noll. The motion was

seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.


A motion was made by Councilman Howett for our solicitor to draft

a letter to Mr. Naylor to summarize his statement. The motion was

seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.


Engineer’s Report


Change         Mr. Klinedinst we are changing your meeting rep from

Of                   Jason Reichard to Steve Malesker. Whom I think you

Rep                  ought to know. Steve’s actually represents Dallastown,

                  and the authority. You will find his experience is more

                  of a structural engineer, structural and municipal. So,

                  you are going to find that he has some skills that Jason,

                  doesn’t have and probably doesn’t have some that Jason

                  had. Jason is still is sitting in the same office, he just

                  has different responsibilities. So that is how I wanted

                  to start out. But that doesn’t supply my explanation of

                  why I’m here. Steve had surgery and Steve couldn’t

                  make it tonight. So since I spent some time talking to

                  council, touring the borough, looking at the basin and

                  I familiar with that situation, I was the logic one to

                  come down, unless you really need me. I’m always

                  available. Councilman Snyder said I wasn’t invited

                  to the meeting between the council and C. S. Davidson.

                  What I will say, I liked your approach tonight. I felt

                  it was very professional and well done. You have a

                  pretty good handle of what our issues are. You sat in

                  on our executive session. You saw the current report.

                  I would hope that C. S. Davidson made the right

                  decision of whom they replaced Jason with, because

                  I really feel comfortable with you that you have a

                  handle on especially our dam project and all the issues

                  associated with that. I would personally don’t know if

         Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 33


                  I ever met Steve. When you say he’s a structural engineer.

                  I hope, because I personally like Jason, I thought he handled

                  us well and that’s neither here or there. I hope C.S. Davidson

                  is matching Yoe Borough up with what we need in an

                  engineer. Mr. Klinedinst said we think we are, I will make

                  this commitment to council, if for some reason, here’s the

                  deal, there’s chemistry between any rep and any client.

                  If for some reason the chemistry is not there between Steve

                  Malesker and this council, call me. If nobody else knows

                  how to get me, Barry knows how to get me, Seth knows how

                  to get me, Tom knows how to get me. And if I have to come

                  down in the meantime until we find a better fit, I’ll come

                  down, I’ll make that commitment. I’m down to two municipal

                  clients now myself. I don’t do this on normal basis anymore

                  but as to where I’ve been doing it, I have represented

                  Wrightsville Borough since 1973. I know how to do this and

                  what I know tonight, and why I represent tonight, is a lot of

                  homework with Tom and Seth and Barry. And pulling the files

                  out and spending a lot of time with Jason going over. When

                  you pinch hit for someone, you are walking in cold. But I

                  tried to be prepared as a possibly could, but I’ve done this

                  work for 35 years now. Trust Yoe has special problems, but

                  every municipal client does. So that’s the commitment that

                  I’ll make,you won’t see unless you ask for me. Councilman

                  Snyder said I just want to make sure I know that this meeting

                  was held, we want to move forward, into a good working

                  relationship. I just want to make sure of. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said I don’t want to interrupt you but another reason that

                   I was down here why I was down previously was because

                  of issues on your project and there a lot of issues for a lot

                  of different reasons. I will not put Jason under the bus, he’s

                  a good guy. No matter why we are where we are with your

                  budget, I’m the President of Company. We will face it,

                  we will get it done. You charged us with that responsibility.

                  The Corps of Engineers. Other than that, there wasn’t

                  that much on the report.




Engineer’s Report (cont.)                           Page 34


Park/                  Mr. Klinedinst reported we did submit the contract to

DCNR         to DCNR.


Flood          Mr. Klinedinst said the flood plain ordinance wasn’t

Plain                   anything more on that.


Growing         Mr. Klinedinst said the Growing Greener there is

Greener         another Growing Greener coming out. As of tonight,

                  I don’t know what the parameters are for that one.

                  Floodplain management, as opposed to other stuff

                  that I’ll find out for you. Councilman Allar said I was

                  going to ask you about that. Mr. Klinedinst said I

                  will find out for you very quickly. Its been couple

                  of days, when I came down, Tom showed me the

                  basin, I looked at the park. I didn’t know you had

                   a park. Its been a very interesting experience for me.

                  It gives me a better appreciation on how I can go back

                  and get my personnel assigned and get your job.

                  Jason is not going anywhere trust me. Our challenge

                  is to get a smooth transition for the project. You won’t                  

                  pay for it. I’m make sure Steve comes down here,

                  he’s fully educated, to address problems. And if there

                  is problem with that, my name is on the company



Park                  Councilman Noll asked where do we stand on the park

Project         project as far as you feeling on getting everything in

                  and we need to send out bids. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  we will be bidding it this summer. As soon as we

                  get something back from DCNR, as soon as we

                  get departmental provisions to Steve. Probably

                  by the middle of August. Councilman Noll said we

                  have to have the money spent by the end of the year.

                  Mr. Klinedinst said I think we can do that. Assuming

                  that DCNR doesn’t take an extraordinarily long time.

                  Steve is aware of the scheduling. Councilman Noll asked

                  once that happens, I would be involved, keep me in line.

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 35


Meeting         Councilman Noll said the only other thing, in that meeting

                  we had C. S. Davidson. I don’t see blame, in least of

                  my opinion. It’s a relationship issue. And there are some

                  things we have to work on, two of those things that

                  would help Davidson, if we could come up with a list

                  of items, we know that need to be repaired, whether

                  it would be bridges, as far as of other problems or issues

                  that way they can start hopefully, arming them up with

                  grants and other things to help out. Where to find the

                  money for us. The other things, to think about, how

                  we do projects like this, how we interact. Get one

                  consistent person to make all the phone calls that

                  we need. Something to think about it, a person

                  or committee. Mr. Klinedinst said that we just know

                  that the person we are working for , has direction

                  from the council. Have approval during the month,

                  because approval during the month is critical. The

                  last thing, whether council even knows the capabilities

                  of the borough engineer. What happens sometimes,

                  we have a ten to fifteen presentation of what we do,

                  there is a lot of stuff we do that you aren’t aware of,

                  talking about zoning ordinances, estimates,

                  inspections, structural bridges and buildings. Councilman

                  Noll said if you have marketing materials that you can

                  get us, that we can truly know the best possible way.

                  I thought it was a very good meeting. Councilman Snyder

                  said I wasn’t there, I heard some of the things that came

                  out of it and there were some positive things that came

                  out of it. Hopefully we can all learn. One thing that I

                  personally think that we as a council need to do, and

                  I’m going to ask C. S. Davidson to help us out in this,

                  because one thing that I see that this council has a

                  tendency to do. We get sidetracked quick and lose sight

                  of the overall issue. This dredging project is a good

                  example. It started as a dredging project and then materialized

                  with this with Chronister to a monitoring project. That we

                  were going to get monitors down there and we were going to

                  see how much that would cost and where we go from there.

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 36


                  Next thing you know we are getting all these other engineers

                  involved in a monitoring project. Then it became a project

                  of in with York Township. We’ll just coordinate this with

                  upstream York Township, and it became bigger. And then

                  next thing you know four years down the road, we still

                  don’t even have a dredging project. And I think, I for one,

                  I know I have always voiced my opinion with Jason, I said

                  I think that C. S. Davidson can come right out and I think

                  this council needs it, to say we would more than happy to

                  do that for you folks, understand we’re changing the

                  whole scope here. Unless you slap us over the head, with

                  it, its really easy to get off target. Because so many different

                  things out there, to say hey look this is a good idea. And

                  the next thing we know, we don’t know how that is affecting

                  the overall core of project. Councilman Noll said that is exactly

                  what we said to them that we need someone to direct us.

                  Councilman Snyder said to keep us focused. Councilman Noll

                  said exactly and that came out very part of the meeting, one

                  of the ways that they will provide us a time table of how

                  long things will take for projects. Councilman Snyder said

                  I can see, we’re going to work on this dam, Army Corps

                  of Engineer thing, that’s going to take three to four months

                  and what’s falling behind the dredging project. Its really

                  easy to happen. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll try to expedite that,

                  our standard policy today, I hammer this into our client

                  managers, department managers, I want to know what the

                  scope, budget and schedule. Very simple stuff. If you

                  understand the scope, you understand the budget, you

                  understand the schedule of your client. And you change

                  the scope,budget, schedule, that’s fine as long as everyone

                  agrees to change the scope,budget and schedule. But I agree

                  with you about the project, my gathering of the last week.

                  A simple maintenance project, you didn’t need any permits,

                  you bid, it was more than what you expected to pay. That’s

                  when you started down the slippery slope. Because, this

                  is a Klinedinstism, you started chasing money. When you

                  start chasing money,you start with accepting the rules of

                  money. And you get into adapt the project to the money.

         Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 37                 


                  Instead of to the project. Sort of like a non profit

                  instead of a mission, it began to be revenue driven instead

                  of mission driven. Anyway, we’re just trying to, I think

                  it was a productive meeting at the standpoint of, forget

                  about what we’ve done in the past or how we got here,

                  how are we going to operate. Whether its Steve, or its

                  scope,budget,schedules, try to keep you focused. This

                  is what we do. 75% of our work is municipal. Councilman

                  Noll said that’s why at the meeting, we said what are the

                  problems. Things to solve problems. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  I will recommend that Steve come and meet with Tom,

                  or Barry. Take him around the borough, and show him the

                  borough and bring him, give him a crash course in Yoe

                  Borough. And talk about your problems. Councilman

                  Snyder said I know one thing that was brought up,

                  you mentioned about matching money with projects and

                  stuff. I saw this come across your desk Dana, I think

                  we probably need to act upon it tonight. There was something

                  that was generated maybe from Jason, that was this stimulus

                  money and had to do with water run off and paving of

                  streets. And one of the issues that you had brought up was

                  this alley, here. Mr. Shearer said Clark Alley. Councilman

                  Snyder said it was this one and Clark Alley. Mr. Shearer

                  said Jason had asked if had anything. I told him that we

                  have two alleys that are basically dirt, this one over here

                  and Clark Alley which is down here behind the fire hall,

                  next to the gabion work at the creek. Mr. Klinedinst asked

                  that would be the dirt and gravel program by Gary Peacock

                  and WAY. Councilman Snyder said I saw some of the

                  email traffic, I don’t know if it was you or Jason mentioned

                  that road particularly with all the work with the gabions

                  would be very simple to put out. Mr. Klinedinst said what

                  one are you talking about? Councilman Snyder said Clark.

                  I mean, I would like to include this, if that’s going to take

                  too much time, if that’s going to take too much money. Let’s

                  forget it, but at least go for Clark cause if there is stimulus

                  money out there, its just a matter of time until it needs done

                  anyways. Mr. Klinedinst said I’m not positive that money

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 38


                  is stimulus money. I’ve done a dirt and gravel road down

                  Chanceford Township. And essentially its all about

                  storm water with grading it, and putting in special stone

                  mix, or surface that stays. Its solid. Councilman Snyder

                  said because I think that may have stabilized our

                  gabions that we don’t have all that drainage coming

                  from that. I would like to see that project proceed. Like

                  I said, I wasn’t at the last meeting, you can tell. It only

                  takes one meeting. Mr. Shearer said basically there was

                  email traffic back and forth with Jason asking if we had

                  anything that, I said either the two streets we had and I

                  know what I saw, they were looking at projects that

                  were pretty much shovel ready. And he said he felt,

                  that we were far enough along with the previous work,

                  on one part to proceed with that. I forwarded a copy

                  to Sam so if we were interested, you would pretty much

                  say go ahead. So. I guess I don’t know relayed to proceed

                  with that or not, there is a deadline here. Councilman         

                  Snyder said we need to know if we can go ahead with that,

                  get the blessing of council to go for it. If we had to, if

                  there was any engineering funds there that need to be

                  expended, because he said it was just going to be lightly,

                  almost tweak what we already got in order to make this

                  shovel ready. Expend the liquid fuels monies if we had

                  to, so we don’t lose this actual money that is available.

                  Mr. Klinedinst said you authorize Dana to pursue

                  that money. Not difficult to do. A motion was made

                  by Councilman Myers to authorize Dana to pursue

                  that money to get work done at Clark Alley. The motion

                  was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.

                  Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Is there anything

                  else that you need, that was one of them. Are we copasetic

                  with Main Street? I know that’s an issue. Jason had a very

                  good idea. If you were up to speed on that with the paving

                  of Main Street. Mr. Klinedinst said no. Councilman Snyder

                  said there is a water coming from a natural spring right

                  around Newton Alley being directed right onto Main Street.

                  Main Street is now being paved by PENN DOT. That was

         Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 39


                  diverted out onto Main Street when the water company

                  actually doing work in there. They broke a pipe, they

                  just temporarily out there and said that wasn’t our

                  pipe to begin with, so Yoe Borough you need to fix

                  it. Of course, we started to get into a verbal match,

                  saying you were the one that cracked it. And Jason

                  had the idea, well look if we do it. Pete said they’re

                  still a municipal authority, we’re going to end up

                  with it anyways. And came down to, that we’re going

                  to need all these permits from PENN DOT and Jason

                  had this wonderful idea of saying that if they’re going

                  to be repaving it, let them find it when they come to

                  repave it come to us. And there going to say, we’re

                  still in the works of trying to figure out who actually

                  has to do this work. And now they want to do the work

                  to keep their project moving. Is there anything  you

                  need for the engineer to do at this point because the

                  last I heard from you this morning, they now located

                  that problem. Mr. Shearer said they figured out that

                  there is problem. I talked to the PENN DOT project

                  manager. He wasn’t enthusiastic. Originally what

                  they wanted to do was to divert it into the sanitary

                  sewer. Where apparently in the 70’s according to the

                  the guy that was working with the project, he was

                  working on the project in the 70’s. That was what

                  PENN DOT decided to do back then. It was permanent

                  fix then. So, we told them, I called Mark Clark for

                  reassurance from Holley’s office and said no way

                  there going to do it. I called the project manager, he

                  hymned and hauled and said well have to come up

                  with, figure out how to divert it down the street. The

                  guy from McMinn’s said, well you know you can

                  rid of it while we’re here, if we can tie this into the

                  storm sewer. I called Doug Shaffer at PENN DOT and

                  said hey look, we have a problem here, if we’ve

                  got to fix this in the future, while we’re digging and

                  everything so. You know maybe there is something

                  that we can do now. That’s where it stands. They

         Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 40


                  haven’t gotten back to me as far as what they’re going to

                  do. Mr. Klinedinst said it would be a lot easier if it

                  was Kinsley. Councilman Snyder asked so is there

                  anything that on the engineering standpoint that you

                  need to involve, I don’t remember exactly what Jason’s                                     idea was at this point, he had a recommendation that

                  you can say, hey contact this person and say look

                  this was brought up to our attention. I think this is what

                  you need to know. Councilman Noll said he thought

                  basically that when they milled they would put a pipe.

                  Councilman Snyder said but I think if there is some sort

                  of notice given  from our borough engineer that we

                  want this addressed properly and not like they did back

                  then. I mean I’m afraid what they’re going to do, we

                  want it addressed. I don’t think it was ever an issue

                  of council not wanting to pay something towards it.

                  But this gets us from not having to do the curb and

                  everything. We also probably go through our liquid

                  fuels money and to do it accurately with the project

                  number set it up and this is maybe the time where

                  the engineer says we need to work together on this and

                  this is what we’re proposing. Mr. Klinedinst asked

                  do you want to have Jason call Dana, or, we can

                  certainly do that. Technically something that’s

                  large, you can do it under an emergency card, under

                  their detour plan. Watching what they’re doing

                  down there, is there way around to work with McMinns.

                  Councilman Snyder said that’s why I’m saying, I’m

                  asking you your opinion, is this the time to get the

                  engineer involved, or is it still. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  to be totally honest with you, I don’t know what the

                  engineer is going to add to that conversation. If

                  they know the borough is interested in getting it

                  repaired correctly. McMinns is a PENN DOT

                  qualified contractor, take it up with PENN DOT.

                  I am willing to have Jason or anybody jump into that,

                  but I’m not sure what value that would be.

                  Councilman Noll said McMinns is involved with the

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                           Page 41


                  asphalt. Councilman Snyder said that’s what we

                  want to make sure that this was actually corrected

                  to the way Jason had. Mr. Klinedinst said if we

                  get an engineer involved, we can’t stop McMinn

                  any better than you can. Councilman Snyder said

                  okay, then this was mainly to inform C. S. Davidson.

                  Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll talk to Jason about it, but

                  McMinns won’t stop for us anymore than for you.

                  Councilman Snyder said okay. Just let him know that

                  we’re at that position. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll advise

                  him. Councilman Snyder said if, Dana has any questions

                  or concerns as this transpires throughout the upcoming

                  days, he should contact Jason. Mr. Klinedinst said

                  contact Jason. Is council with that? Consensus?

                  Okay, very good. Mr. Klinedinst said let me give you

                  a card, again, my commitment is something doesn’t

                  work out, you call me. Anyone can call me. You want

                  to kick me out of here. Councilman Snyder said you

                  can stay as long as you want to. Does anybody have

                  anything else for engineer?


Growing         Councilman Allar said going back to this Growing

Greener         Greener. July 17th. Either one of us knows what

Plus                  to checking on with it. If you find something , Jason

                  needs to authorize you to go ahead, to give

                  that response. I’m trying to put this out on the

                  table, are we doing that, you can authorize C. S.

                  Davidson to submit an application on this Growing

                  Greener Plus program for Yoe Borough. Mr.

                  Klinedinst said that’s what I’ve got to find out,

                  I’m not quite sure what the parameters are. I can

                  find out probably tomorrow and get something down

                  to Sandy or anybody. Councilman Allar said I think

                  we need to vote to give you authority. All we know

                  that it’s a July 17th deadline. Councilman Noll said

                  I think I’d be interested as long as its not a math

                  program. Mr. Klinedinst said I think that you can,

                  I know this is going out on a limb but if you want

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                  Page 42


                  to authorize the application, number one as long

                  as its not a match program and number two don’t        

                  spend more than $2000.00. If you want to put

                  those conditions on it, and I find out that number

                  one it’s a match program or number two its going

                  to cost $10,000.00 to put the grant application out

                  there. I’m sensitive to financial. I would be honest

                  with you, I think it doesn’t have anything that you

                  are going to be able to do, to use. I wish I could have,

                  I was out at a meeting all afternoon. Councilman

                  Allar said the only thing that I can think of, is that

                  we never completed the gabions. Now Jake Romig,

                  worked an application on the old one. That was

                  not approved. This is Growning Greener Plus so

                  I don’t know what the plus means. And again Jake

                  Romig, drew us a map, he worked up the application.

                  I’m not clear why that wasn’t approved. Do we

                  do have a section in town of gabions that are

                  thirty years old or whatever that needs replacing

                  so. That falls under water shed protection, restoration,

                  flood protection. Councilman Myers said we have

                  a section that was never done. Councilman Allar said

                  that’s right. We’ve done an original one. Councilman

                  Myer said I don’t think we had gabions. Councilman

                  Allar said between Mason and Main. Mr. Klinedinst

                  said I’m willing with something that is, this uncertain

                  with council, if we find out tomorrow that they

                  will fund gabions, we have a lot of the application

                  work done, it’s not a match, we can file, we can

                  begin the preparation on a application for the July

                  meeting to ratify. Councilman Allar said pull out

                  the old application. Mr. Klinedinst said I’m not

                  quite sure what the parameters are of the grant,

                  what the grants for. Number two or whether its        

                  a match or not. Councilman Myers said you can

                  find out what its for, its just a matter of a phone

                  call. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll get the information

                  down to Sandy tomorrow.

Engineer’s Report(cont.)                  Page 43


Comment         Mr. Klinedinst said just some comments. You

                  do know Steve he came to a couple of the

                  meetings. Councilman Snyder said probably

                  when I see him I’ll. Councilman Allar said

                  I did check with Dallastown, they gave him

                  favorable recommendation. And John, if you

                  don’t know, he is the county engineer. It

                  comes in handy at times.


DEP                  Councilman Snyder said the only other thing

                  which isn’t for the engineer, but is under the

                  engineer’s report, we did receive word from

EAP                  DEP about the Emergency Action Plan for

                  the dams. They did have some changes that

                  needed to be noted in red. I have since, since

                  John was actually the one, the mayor, that

                  actually worked on that for Jason back last

                  year. I informed him of that, I gave him a copy                 

                  of that and he is going to be working on that

                  while he is off recuperating. So hopefully

                  that will be ready to give back to the engineer.

                  That’s all I had.


Mr. Klinedinst said nice meeting you, hope to see you again.


Maintenance Report


Park                  Mr. Shearer said the park is open, had some water leaks

                  got them fixed. Did have to replace the hot water

                  heater, that one that Seth got us last year, I don’t

                  know if the element went out in it or what. The

                  hot water wouldn’t stay hot. I went to Lowe’s

                  and got a 19 gallon tank model. Wire it into the

                  wiring we had for that. So its no longer a gas

                  model, its electric. It’s a tank model, keeps

                  the water hot. But there were some issues up

                  there last year with not having enough hot water

                  so I think I get that resolved. I don’t know if


Maintenance Report(cont.)                           Page 44


                  anything can be done to specialize the building.

                  I have been marking the bills. Councilman Noll

                  said it may have gone out with the freezing weather.

                  Mr. Shearer said that’s the one thing I don’t like

                  about it, was that. Councilman Noll said I don’t think

                  you can completely drain those. Mr. Shearer said

                  that’s, I don’t think it drain all the water out of it.

                  Councilman Noll said well we tried, but it didn’t



Sheriff’s         Mr. Shearer said the MOU for the sheriff’s department

Dept.                  work crew program is up there in the green folder. I don’t

MOU                  if that’s something you want to sign or you want me to

                  sign or what you want to do. Its pretty, it’s a couple

                  pages, its pretty forward, it says. We agree to utilize

                  them, give them work, they are going to supervise

                  them, we’re going to provide them with the tools.

                  Like we do know for the Adult Probation Crew. The

                  only difference is, these guys will be under armed

                  guard. They work on community type projects.

                  Basically the work we have, the probation crew

                  do. We are going use them, to get stuff done.

                  Councilman Allar asked how capable are we,

                  we talked about the tower to remove it. Mr. Shearer

                  said I seriously doubt it, they have rules of things

                  that they don’t do, like plumbing, electrical work.

                  Councilman Noll said they are laborers. Mr. Shearer

                  said this is going to be, manual labor. Painting curbs,

                  mowing grass those types of jobs. Pretty much

                  what they’re going to do. As long as they can

                  tie the project into the betterment of the community.

                  In the prevention of crime in cleaning up the town.

                  Councilman Allar said he checked with Danko,

                  for removal of trees. Mr. Shearer said and that is

                  one of the things I came up with. I had them

                  up there to look at it. Came down to meet with

                  me, they seemed not to have a problem with it.

Maintenace Report(cont.)                             Page 45


                  They would be able to cut down the trees and feel

                  hand saws would be the best. Get Red Lion’s

                  chipper to make mulch. I don’t know, do we

                  need an official agreement to enter into Sam?

                  Councilman Snyder said we can sign the MOU.

                  If council wants to do it. Pete looked over it,

                  its pretty much standard stuff there. They’re

                  accepting all the responsibility for the inmate’s

                  health, well being and performing all functions.

                  The wages of the inmate work crew are the responsibility

                  of the county. They are basically assuming all responsibility.

                  The only responsibility of the municipality is that we will

                  insure being performed will not interfere, replace, diminish

                  or override the need to replace an employee’s position.

                  The said agency will insure the job being performed will

                  not conflict with any employee union contract. And said

                  agency will provide any all tools necessary for the job.

                  So that’s basically it. I don’t have problem signing it.

                  I don’t know if you have a project for them yet, but

                  at least its in place if you do. Mr. Shearer said what

                  they suggested was that get the MOU signed, they had

                  other municipalities that have signed the MOU and if

                  you have something come along there is work request

                  form in that folder. Fill in the work request form, send

                  it in, they will review the project. If its something that

                  they can plug into the program, they will schedule a

                  time. Red Lion’s time will be for brush clearing  up

                  there where the ball field is. Red Lion is making use

                  of them right now. A motion was made by Councilman

                  Allar to sign the MOU. The motion was seconded by

                  Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder

                  said motion carried.


Chain                  Mr. Shearer said I did get the chain saw. And I ordered

Saw                   the rip rap material that around the one concrete box

Rip/Rap         there at the top of the dam breast.



Maintenance Report(cont.)                                    Page 46


Complaints          Mr. Shearer reported that I did have some complaints

About                  about the pine tree I made mention of it last month, the

Pine                   pine tree at Fourth and Main. I think Dick looked at it

Tree                  before and was sent back as no violation per our zoning

                  at that particular time. Since then I took the classes

                  of LTAP. The state law basically gives us the right,

                  even since it’s a state road. That any road in our jurisdiction

                  we can enforce the removal of any site distance hazard.

                  So I have Todd Trouts, he was one of the gentleman that

                  came down from Padonia Associates with LTAP for

                  Broad Street. He came down to help me walk through

                  the site distance survey of the intersection. What we found

                  is, its right at the minimum. With a little bit of a cushion.

                  With the slope of the road, we’re right at a reasonable

                  stopping distance for traffic coming up the hill, if some

                  body would pull out in front of them. The one thing is

                  that, you know being a pine tree into the borough,

                  it going to continue to grow. I want to draft a letter to

                  the property owner explaining to them, that I want to

                  have a meeting on the site with them to discuss our

                  concerns and that we’ve had complaints as to people

                  pulling out there and the tree interfering with their site

                  distance. Let them know they could be liable if someone

                  would have an accident there. If it continues to be

                  a problem, they would have to keep it constantly

                  maintained. Right now that is the best we are going

                  to be able to do.


Signage         Councilman Snyder asked anything else? I just had one

                  item just as a follow up, if you recall we charged Dana

                  two to three months ago now to check on the signage

                  around town. We’re still waiting on that in order to

                  proceed with codification. Mr. Shearer said I apologize

                  I haven’t gotten got back to that. Councilman Snyder

                  said as soon as you can, a lot of these issues that we

                  have will be addressed with codification. So, but

                  that’s the latest update on that.


Zoning Officer’s Report                  Page 47


Councilman Snyder said zoning officer’s report, anything in there?


Councilman Myers said he checked on 92 W. Broad, on 5/27 found

more garbage, has scheduled an inspection for 6/12. One zoning

permit issued to 310 Yoe Drive for an open ground swimming pool.

He filed a citation issued to 53 Church Street for refuse.  Grass letters

sent to 39 E. Pennsylvania Ave.,81 E. Pennsylvania Avenue, 377 S.

Main Street and 46 W. Broad.  Is that the one catty corner to the fire

hall, right behind the service station, its really high at the creek.

Checked on properties with previous violations. He scheduled a variance

meeting on 5/28 for E. Pennsylvania Avenue. It says here paved area

within less 12 feet site distance of Clark Alley. The Yoe Borough Zoning

Hearing Board approved the variances, consideration of stormwater

management, parking area, roof draining. We’ll supply a copy when

received from the solicitor. Copies of letters are in folder.

Councilman Snyder asked any issues for the zoning officer?


Emergency Management Agency Report


Councilman Snyder said no report.


Mayor and Police Report


Councilman Snyder said no report. He is out on disability.

He is taking care of the DEP issue.


Secretary’s Report


The secretary said no report.


Auditor         Councilman Snyder said I only had one thing, did that

Letter          came in this month or last month. The secretary said that

                  came in when I was on vacation. Councilman Snyder said

                  okay then that is this month, under secretary-treasurer

                  notation, the borough did receive its audit information from

                  Stambaugh- Ness. I looked over it there were no significant

                  deficiencies in risk assessment, they were no material

                  weaknesses. And organizational structure, they determined

Secretary’s Report(cont.)                  Page 48


                  everything to be sound. So in other words, it was

                  pretty good audit.


                  Councilman Allar asked who was here with Connie?

                  The secretary said that was Ron Crull’s sister.

                  Dorothea Warner.


                  Councilman Snyder asked anything else under secretary’s



Unfinished Business


                  There was no unfinished business.


New Business


YBSA         Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect that we

                  received the quarterly report from the Yoe Borough

                  Sewer Authority informing us of people who are

                  delinquent with sewer and municipal service fees.


Attorney         Councilman Snyder said the borough was also notified

General         from the office of the Attorney General and I’ll

Office                  be making sure that this gets out into the press. That

Act 132         Act 132 of 2008 is effective July 1, 2009. That act

                  requires contractors who perform home improvement

                  for total cash value of $5000.00 or more are required

                  to be registered with the Office of Attorney General

                  by July 1st. So that is another safeguard that then

                  can be used to check on, they should look for as

                  of July 1st that any contractor that they get should be

                  listed with the Attorney General Office. Councilman

                  Noll said that’s for a contractor that does $5000.00

                  a year, not just per job. Councilman Snyder said yes,

                  its not just for that for that individual person if he

                  does more than $5000.00 a year. He has to register

                  regardless of the job he does. You don’t have  to

                  have a $5000.00 job. The secretary asked who reports

New Business(cont.)                           Page 49


                  them if they don’t register. Councilman Snyder said

                  that’s why I’m getting this out in the press, if they’re

                  looking at a contractor. The secretary said if the homeowner

                  is looking at a contractor, they can report them if they

                  are not registered. Councilman Snyder said correct, they

                  should only be getting contractors that are registered if

                  of course. Councilman Noll said by registered, they

                  have to  it in any advertisement, the contractor has a

                  permanent contract the number and it also has to be

                  on the contract. The secretary said if they send an

                  estimate, it should have all that information on it.

                  Councilman Noll said its just home not commercial.

                  Councilman Allar asked the Attorney General has some

                  sort of review? Councilman Noll said yes day to day.



YCPC         Councilman Snyder said we were also notified by

                  York County Planning, again this is like an annual

                  thing,that there is the three programs used to assist

                  homeowners on maintaining their homes in safe,

                  sanitary, healthy environments. The programs

                  are for owner occupied residents only. The three

                  programs are the home improvement program,

                  sewer hook up programs, waterline hook up

                  program. They are 0% interest deferred loans.

                  Where the mortgage is placed and it doesn’t

                  have to paid back until the time they sell.

                  Councilman Allar said there is one for renters?

                  Councilman Snyder said yeah there is one for

                  renters too. York County Weatherization



Christmas         Councilman Myers said I just have two things.

Magic                  If Sandy can write a letter, for Christmas Magic,

                  that our week by December 6-12, 2009. And I

                  don’t know if you can put it on the calendar,

                  put it on the calendar. The secretary said I will

                  get Bruce to put it on the website.


New Business (cont.)                           Page 50


W/C                  Councilman Myers asked when you get copies of these

Claims         claims things, if Sandy could copy that, and have Dana

                  drop it off at the President of the Fire Company. Every

                  now and then something gets by us, we don’t see that.

                  We try to stay up on that as much as possible. Patti is

                  pretty good with that. Every now and then, the Charley

                  Webb thing got by us.


Councilman Snyder asked anything else for new business?


Payment of the Bills


Councilman Snyder said I do have four additions. Verizon Wireless:

$51.46, MCI:$13.99, Dandy Lion Florist:$10.95 and the balance

of Councilman Crull’s pay to be authorized. A motion to pay

the bills with those additions by Councilman Myers. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman

Snyder said bills are paid.




Councilman Snyder said on behalf of Councilman Crull who is

still with us, Councilman Crull would like to make the motion

to adjorn the meeting at 11:07PM. The motion was seconded by

Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said

meeting adjourned.