Yoe Borough
150 North Maple Street
Yoe, PA l7313 Pg. 1
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on June 2, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple St.,
Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7:01PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Members in Attendance:
Sam Snyder
Barry Myers
Tom Allar
George Howett
Seth Noll
Others in attendance:
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer Connie Crull, Wife
Dana Shearer, Maintenance of Councilman Crull
Pete Solymos, Solicitor Dorothea Warner,
John Klinedinst, Engineer Sister of Councilman
Melody Schaefer, Members 1st Credit Union Crull
Doug Truax, Kocman Insurance Agency
Dave Naylor, Resident
Minutes
Councilman Snyder asked did everyone have an opportunity to look over the
minutes of the prior meeting. Any additions or corrections? Let the record
reflect that I abstain. Councilman Myers made a motion to approve the minutes of May 5, 2009. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.
Those in favor: Councilman Howett and Councilman Noll. Councilman Snyder abstained. Councilman Snyder said minutes approved.
Honoring of Councilman Ronald C. Crull Page 2
Councilman Snyder said the first thing on the agenda, as you are aware after our last council meeting, we had the untimely passing of one of our council
members, Ron Crull. There’s absolutely now way, this municipality can honor someone such as him and pay him any type of due justice. However in a vain attempt to show him the justice that he does so richly deserve I would
like to present to council for consideration, Yoe Borough Resolution 2009-09.
Yoe Borough Resolution 2009-09
Be it known that, The Yoe Borough Council would like to honor the
memory of our fellow councilman, Ronald C. Crull, who passed away on
May 12, 2009. Whereas, he was serving in his last year of a four year elected
term as Councilman with the Borough of Yoe. His term set to expire on December 31, 2009. Whereas, he was in his 40th consecutive year of service of the Borough of Yoe. Having the distinction of being elected nine times to
served on the Borough Council and one term as Mayor. Whereas, at different times during those years of service to the Borough Council, he served on numerous committees and held numerous positions such as Road Superintendent, Maintenance Personnel Supervisor, Vice-President of Council and President of Council and Mayor. Whereas, standing as a testament and inspiration to people who suffer from life threatening illness and afflictions, while battling his many physical challenges, he wanted to remain an active part of the council and still attend monthly meetings. His most recently attended meeting being only 7 days before his untimely death.
Now therefore bet it resolved that, because of the dedication, courage, commitment and love that Ronald C. Crull has show as a Councilman of the
Borough of Yoe. The Borough Council hereby proclaims itself in mourning for the entire month of June. That. the Borough Council extends its heartfelt sympathy, along with a copy of this resolution to his family. That, out of
respect for his community service, his council seat shall remain unfilled for the entire month of June. That, he shall be considered as fulfilling his four year term with all the rights and privileges afforded to him by the office he held. That, he may now go home for a job well done. Be it resolved on this
2nd day of June 2009.
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to resolve Resolution 2009-09. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said so be it resolved.
Honoring of Councilman Ronald C. Crull(cont.) Pg. 3
I also had the opportunity before John was out on disability, to get the signature of the mayor for his approval as well. We did receive a thank you for the flowers that were sent by the council members and Sandy and Dana.
You know how much your thoughtfulness is appreciated. Thank you for your cards and calls and thank you for the flowers. Connie and Debra Crull.
As a special token, I ordered a single red rose in honor of the councilman to be with us here tonight. I directed Dana to pass that on to the family after
tonight’s meeting. But Ronnie will be with us this entire night. And long
afterwards. Thank you for being here, Connie.
Visitors
Councilman Snyder said unto visitors. First we have on the agenda,
Melody Schaefer and Kim Ryen from Members 1st Federal Credit Union.
Ms. Schaefer said my name is Melody Schaefer, Kim Ryen had an emergency this evening and won’t be with us. I’m going to go over the presentation. First of all I have a packet for each of you. The reason I am here this evening, I am the Business Deposits Officer for Members 1st Federal Credit Union. What I do is, I work with the larger businesses and government accounts. Kim Ryen is the manager of our Mount Rose branch, she was formerly the manager of the Red Lion Giant branch, which opened
in October of 2008. Kim and I, actually I approached Sandy and asked if I could talk to her a little bit about the credit union. Let me start back at the beginning, I’m not sure how familiar you are with credit unions in general,
or with Members 1st. That’s where I’ll start my presentation. Credit Unions
are fundamentally different than a commercial bank. We are a non for profit
organization, owned by our members, they are considered as well as the people that have deposit accounts and loans with us. For that reason we do not have outside shareholders like a commercial bank does. Not that we don’t make profit, we take those profits and but them back into the credit
union for service to our members. Generally we are able to offer a higher deposit rate, lower loan rate than a commercial bank. Members 1st, itself,
is the third largest credit union in the state of Pennsylvania, right behind
PSCEU and there is a police and fire fighters credit union over in Philadelphia. We’ve been around since 1950 and right now we have 34 branches. Our first branch was actually at the Navy Depot in Mechanicsburg, and we still actually have a branch there. We ventured into
Visitors(cont.) Page 4
the Carlisle Barracks. When we moved outside those two facilities, we did change our name, didn’t become another organization but we adapted. There are some municipal accounts that I work with, I work with only on a certificate of deposit relationship. Because generally what will you find, our CD’s at the credit union are generally at the top of the market if not the best. There’s other municipalities I work with that have their entire relationship, their transaction accounts as well. Credit unions are insured by the National Credit Union Administration Insurance Fund, NUCUA, which is government sponsored part of the FDIC insurance. Works exactly the same as FDIC, when the FDIC limits went up to $250,000.00, so did ours. Also for any amounts over the insured amount, we are compliant with Act 72 and we collateralize the funds appropriately. Actually we have fairly significant accounts and we collateralize them in that matter. Credit unions, we operated under a charter and we have to limit the field membership, in a certain way. We don’t do business with just anyone, just anyone that walks in our front
door. When we started out at the Navy Depot, it was a employer based charter meaning that you and to work at the Navy Depot or have a relative that did in order to do business with us. About eight years ago, we changed our charter status and went to a community based charter. And what that meant was, anyone who lived worked or worshipped in six surrounding counties, could walk through our front door and do business with us. For business reasons, back in September of last year, we went back to our original charter status, which is employer based charter. And what that allows us to do, is to expand now, with the employer based charter. For example, Lancaster County was not one of our county assigned with us previously. We can now do business, with businesses, municipalities, organizations, any where within a twenty five mile radius of where we have a branch. So it actually allows to place a branch and do business out there.
We work with 1900 businesses in the local area. And are able to do business with their employees and their relatives. What I passed out to you is what is called our employer group letter. If the Borough of Yoe was going to do any type of business, we would first have to bring the borough into our membership. It’s a very simple process. Its just a letter that completely filled out, by the appropriate person and the letter goes to the National Credit Union Administration. In about a week and half, two weeks the Borough of Yoe,is added to our list of 1900 businesses that we’re the credit union for, at that point the borough could do business with as well as borough employees as well as their relatives. As for the branches that we have in the local area,
Visitors(cont.) Page 5
and then I’ll address your account specifically here. We do have the branch in Red Lion Giant at Cape Horn Giant, that is a seven day a week branch as are all of our Giant Store branches. Open to seven o’clock every night, four o’clock on Saturday. And 11 to 2 on Sunday. The other branches that we have in the York area, we have one on Mount Rose Avenue, we have one on White Street and there is a brand new branch going over at the Galleria,
on Whiteford Road, I don’t know if you’ve seen it being built across from the Sears. And that will be opening late summer. In addition in September,
a branch will going into the Manchester Giant. So we are really expanding in
this York Area. We would like to become as big as we are in Cumberland
County, where we have a 25% market share of the financial institutions. Does anyone have any questions for me so far? Talking in general about the
credit union. Councilman Snyder asked do you service any other municipalities? Ms. Schaefer said I do. For privacy reasons I can’t really disclose who we do business with. But we do. Councilman Snyder said I mean without having to ask our solicitor, whose going to say he’s going
to have to research this, I was just wondering, availability of the municipality having a checking accounts, savings accounts with a credit union versus a banking institution if there is a some state regulation that says its has to be in a bank first. Ms. Schaefer said actually there’s not, that
question has come up before because I approached school districts that have checked into it, there are municipalities that have their checking accounts with us and transaction accounts as well as certificate of deposits. And like I said we would provide you with all the paperwork that we could finalize to make the relationship. Solicitor Solymos said your council and Members 1st,
and other councils and schools have provided you with the legal authority
this is a municipality, that does not need to spend more money on what isn’t necessary. So I would greatly appreciate, that availing myself to the research
showing that, that is not a problem. Ms. Schaefer, said absolutely that is not
a problem, we would more than happy to provide you with that information,
absolutely. I have some specific information about the accounts that you
do have right now. And what I have provided to you, right now in your
packet on the left hand side. Would be a copy of our rate sheet from today. I would tell you how they apply to the accounts that you have right now.
The three, you have two commercial checking accounts, right now. We do pay interest directly on our checking account. If the average monthly balance, and you are put into a tier basically for the number of paper items
Visitors(cont.) Page 6
that are run through the account on a monthly basis. There would be
interest adjustments based on the economic environment but as long
as an average balance of $2500.00 in the checking account, it would
be paid on a monthly basis. Our savings account is also listed along with the transaction accounts. We have had to adjust our rates, like everyone else in the market but our general savings account pay over ½ of 1%. But it does look like its more than you have on your accounts at this point. On the savings account. I want to draw attention more to the PLGIT accounts right now, what have been hearing the rates don’t appear to be as attractive as they have been in the past. And its just not the economic environment, it seems like they have come way down. Now I’m assuming the accounts
that you have with PLGIT, you have put the money in for more an investment purpose rather than a transaction. Councilman Snyder said except for our state liquid fuels. Ms. Schaefer said exactly, but the other ones I was assuming they were more for, investments. Earn some interest.
We do have some attractive certificate of deposit options. I have that,
right there. There is a nine month no penalty certificate, half way down
the page. What the certificate of deposit allows you to do is put a lump sum of money, we do guarantee that rate for nine months. But you are not under any obligation to leave that money in there for the whole time. You can
withdraw the money at any time from your account. There is a $5000.00 minimum, if you go under that, we ask that you close it out. And move
the money into a savings account or you can open up a new one when you have at least five thousand. Above that, you will see, we have certificate of deposit specials, right now we have an eleven month, I know most municipalities do invest for a period of one year or less, on a lot of their c.d’s. And that one has a very attractive yield right now of 2.10%.
Very attractive yield on a certificate of deposit. And either of those options,
you look, are earning more than what you are currently on your investment
accounts. Councilman Myers asked how often do these rates change?
Ms. Schaefer said a lot of times our rates are on a monthly basis but they are subject to change at any time based on the economic position. But the no penalty certificate that I was talking about, once you locked into that, we guarantee that rate for nine months. Think of it like a money market investment, with a guaranteed rate. But yes, its very specific for today’s rate. How are accounts are set up, you would have online access if you choose, the money could be transferred between the transaction account, the money
Visitors(cont.) Page 7
management, money market account, checking account, the nine month no penalty certificate of deposit would require a telephone call to transfer out of that, but the funds are easily accessible for the various accounts, at the branch, online transfers for whomever that is authorized. I think the subject of checks came up when we were talking to Sandy,if you do decide to go with us, we would supply you with a certain number of checks to replenish with what you have not used at this time. What questions do you have for me? Councilman Allar asked what minimum balance requirements do you
have for example for checking? Ms. Schaefer said there are minimum balance requirements on the checking accounts. You will see on there that
there are a couple tiers on the checking accounts. The first is an organizational account that are on here. There are 1000 paper items a month.
Including checks deposited. Then there are tiers, 1 to 50, 250, 500 etc. for
each transaction. There is a wire transfer, fee schedule. No monthly maintenance fee, no minimum balances. I think 1000 would be more than you should use. The secretary said fifty would be too low but 250 would be good. Ms. Schaefer said if we start you out and you need to go higher than
we could adjust it. Councilman Noll asked on the C.D.’s what are the penalties for withdrawl? Ms. Schaefer said basically on the back there,
one year or less its ninety days, if you have any idea that you might need it,
use the one year or less. If you take it out before the maturity date, there is a penalty. So there is a fee. Any other questions? Councilman Snyder said I
don’t think so. Ms. Schaefer said if you decide to go with us, we will need the employer group letter sent to us, you will received response in one to
two weeks. I will call Sandy with information requested by the solicitor.
Councilman Snyder said next on the agenda, is Rudy Kocman/ Doug Truax
from Kocman Insurance. Just to let you know we do have an ordinance
that is advertised for adoption at 7:30PM, so I may have to interrupt you
when we get there. Unless you can wrap things up in three minutes. Mr. Truax said I can go through this pretty quickly. Everything in my head except for one form that has to be signed yet. The secretary gave Mr. Truax was given paperwork that was asked for. Mr. Truax what I have given you is a schedule telling what your current premium that ended at midnight on the
1st with EMC. What their renewal premium offer was. And what we also,
have gone to U. S. Specialty for the liability for the retention basins/dam.
First two items I want to deal with, first of all the public officials liability
Visitors(cont.) Page 8
and the public officials liability is up this year, and the reason for that is
its broadening coverages with the span that it provides as far as for zoning
activity. A very valuable coverage has been added and the premium difference we are putting on all of our public officials liability. The
Workmen’s Compensation is your biggest increase and the final figures
are always subject to audit but you do have two claims that took place in
2006, they are at the point that they are being charged against your
experience mode done by the Pennsylvania Compensation Bureau. I know you were made aware of it by your secretary at budget time, as was discussed by us. You have one more year to go, they go three years for
letting a claim affect your workmen’s comp. Any questions on either one of those? Councilman Noll asked what happens to the experience mode after that time period is up? Mr. Truax said it goes back to 1. There is a pretty
significant law change, the law changed a couple years ago, it use to be that whatever the claim was rendering, what they did do enact a provision that
they can not increase the experience mode of a factor of more than .25.
Questions came up when we received some correspondence from Sandy,
on the retention basin/dams on the liability exposure. I went to EMC
not expecting to have a problem. And they said oh no, no liability on the
dam. I had a meeting, we had a meeting, Rudy in the later part of April with
EMC’s representative, they came down took pictures. I really thought EMC
would supply the liability coverage. I am very happy that U. S. Speciality,
gave us a quote that will be attached, for your property vehicles, general liability, and umbrella and equipment for $700.00 more than what EMC
without any coverage on the dam. They have provided, not only the existence of the dams hazard volatility, which is the standard, which is if someone goes on the premises and injuries himself or work is being done,
work is being done cause other bodily injury. They also include, dam
failure. I gave it them, they will provide us with one million from dam
failure. Damages to cars or property damage. Damages downstream,
that was something we felt was quite exceptional. Basically what I have
shown you here on one page, why the premiums are what they are, what we’ve done. Councilman Allar said EMC had provided earthquake coverage? Can U.S. Specialty provide that too. Mr. Truax said I don’t know I’d have to look that up. Councilman Allar said failure due to an earthquake.
Liability, before that we had that. Mr. Truax said apparently they say on
the liability on the property part of it. I see that, I was under the assumption that liability doesn’t have to provide it but. There is a clause in municipal
Visitors(cont.) Page 9
policies and they have fourteen that items, and it says if these do not specifically appear on your general liability, they are not covered.
Councilman Allar said but we never had liability? Mr. Truax said not with EMC. Now with Selective we did have but we moved Selective because
of the workmen’s comp problem. We couldn’t get a workmen’s comp line, so we had to move the whole thing. Apparently within, this will be the second year, there was no mention of the exclusion of the liability coverage.
The property coverage was provided. Selective did not, was one of the ones, we sent it to. We would keep that workman’s comp out. EMC would stay on the workmen’s comp. Selective declined, they are not longer covering physical property and general liability on any dams or retention basin types.
Councilman Snyder asked any billing that you give to the municipality will
it will be have a breakdown with the cost associated with the dams versus
the borough’s general liability. Mr. Truax said the general liability it should have it on there, if not I can get it. Councilman Snyder said because we bill
that back as a separate cost to York Township and Dallastown Borough as far as any insurance costs. Mr. Truax said okay. Councilman Snyder said as long as we have that by the end of the year, that we can be in touch. We just
have, out of this $5600.00, say a $1000.00 is costs associated with the dam.
Mr. Truax said I don’t know what it would be. The secretary said Denise figured that out for me. Mr. Truax asked if you will be here tomorrow? The
secretary said yes. I have one form to bring in, the property schedule. The
secretary come down and I’ll be here. Mr. Truax said I’ll stop down. Councilman Allar asked can you qualify that earthquake business, earth
quake not being quoted. Mr. Truax said I will. Councilman Allar said to see what it would be. Councilman Noll asked how much more is this than what we budgeted. The secretary said its about $1000.00 more than what we
budgeted. Councilman Noll said that includes the dam? The secretary said just for the dam its about $500.00. I think the workmen’s comp is about
that much. Next year we will have to pick it up a little bit. Councilman Noll said maybe next year we would take in consideration the other two who contribute. The secretary said on the budget you don’t divide it by three.
When I get the money, it will be going into miscellaneous income. I will be billing that yes, this past January when I billed it you didn’t have liability
on the dams, to bill Dallastown and York Township. Next year it will be property coverage and liability, it will be billed to Dallastown and York
Township. The line item on the budget is what it costs the borough to actually pay the bill. That goes into the miscellaneous income account.
Visitors(cont.) Page 10
The secretary said the policies are already signed, it expired at June 1st at midnight or we wouldn’t have coverage. I left information for Sam to review and I signed off on it. Tried to get the best coverage. I wanted to let you guys know what was going on. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight. Mr. Truax said nice to see you all again.
Adjournment of Regular Meeting to open up hearing
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the regular meeting at 7:41PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said meeting is in recess.
Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02
Councilman Snyder said I’d like to call to order a special hearing to speak
about Ordinance 2009-02. Which is the ordinance of Yoe Borough, York
County Pennsylvania,requiring installation of key boxes or entry systems on certain properties located within the Borough of Yoe required by the fire
chief and providing penalties for violation thereof. I did notice that there was some discussion last month, in the minutes, any other discussion. Councilman Myers said the only thing that I ask is that since they’re worried
about time, not feeling that a year is sufficient, that we go to a two year
program. That way I know that within in two years they have to. Would
that be okay? Or just keep it as a year? Solicitor Solymos said its up to you,
you’re going to make the call on that, it seems to me that one year is
plenty of time. If you want to extend it two, I think its not a material change to the ordinance. I don’t think we’re going to re-advertise. That’s up to
you folks. Councilman Snyder said just my own opinion, I would be afraid,
me personally, I would think it would be in material, no disrespect to you,
I think it would be material aspect of this ordinance because you’re talking about the affective date, how long you’re actually have to come into
compliance. And I think if someone wanted to challenge it, they said
say you didn’t hold the public hearing to change it from a two years and
therefore my rights were violated or something. I think we either keep it at one year, go with it, or advertise it to change it to the two years so. Since
there was a little discussion about that, personally if all the estimates that you were given for six hundred bucks, is a kosher number. I think a year
to come up with that is sufficient. Because along with that, we’re not
Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02 Page 11
passing an ordinance that’s discussing fees associated with false
alarms. And again I’ll go on record, my biggest hang up on this
ordinance was how it was going to impact the local community and small business man, and when I found it, it was only affected by those that have
automatic alarms. Its just like, well that is a no brainer then. If you have
an automatic alarm and it goes off, you don’t want someone busting in
your doors and then you’re responsible to keep it secure, only to find out
it was a false alarm. I think this is a good, give and take, that we’re not
saying, hey after one false alarm, we’re going to whap you a $500.00 fine.
Which could happen, if you get some kind of electrical surges or something.
May not be something in the system, but you had an electrical surge and
you had a false alarm. And at the point, I think there is a good balance here
between the necessity of the small business man as well as the needs of
the fire department. I think a year to come up with $600.00 bucks, I mean.
Councilman Noll said the cost is about $255.00 to $350.00 for the box.
Councilman Snyder said I think the other cost is going to be the installation.
To get someone to install it, hopefully there’s fee involved for. Solicitor
Solymos said being the nature of being what it is, they are going to wait
to the end of the first year to get it, or wait to the end of the second year
to that. Then they’re going to come back and say I’m not in compliance.
Think about that. Councilman Noll said since nobody came back, we had a couple of people last time, if there is anybody that needs any information
I printed stuff out from the website and printed one of the knox box applications. The secretary said I’ll leave the folder out for this month
then. Councilman Allar asked Barry, is the fire company going to be making
contact with the business in the future? Do you know who has them?
Councilman Myers said we are aware of whom has them. We have a pretty
good idea of whom has them. Councilman Allar said I think it would be a good idea to contact them, let’s say don’t have it now. They might be
more friendly to go along with it rather than hey I have to get a fire alarm.
A year I think is plenty of time. Councilman Noll said for those who
never saw one, this is a knox box, take a look at it. We use it, very
commonly. Councilman Snyder asked any further discussion from council?
Are there any public comments on the ordinance? A motion was made by
Councilman Noll to ordain Ordinance 2009-02. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it
ordained. Before we close out this hearing, I know we have the resolution
to go with that. However, its ordinance, our mayor is incompacitated.
Hearing for Ordinance 2009-02 Page 12
Can we adopt the resolution, without having the mayor’s signature
on the ordinance. The secretary said you adopted other ordinance without the mayor being here. Solicitor Solymos said absolutely. Councilman
Snyder said I was just waiting, because of this resolution too.
Closing of the Public Hearing
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to close the public hearing at
7:49PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said hearing is closed.
Councilman Snyder said I’d like to reconvene the regular council meeting
at 7:50PM for Yoe Borough. Since we just passed ordinance 2009-02,
we also have the resolution 2009-10.
Resolution Councilman Snyder said which discusses the actually criteria
2009-10 as set forth in that ordinance for the knox boxes. I think
everyone has had the opportunity to go over them over the
past couple months. Solicitor Solymos said I need to
address some things. In our April meeting Seth made
a suggestion for a change, that change was made in
number 2 of the resolution, if you have the original
resolution. After the meeting, Seth sent down a memorandum,
I reviewed it, he had two other suggestions. Those are
incorporated as well. The last two numbers of the resolution.
Those two numbers have been added. Seth reviewed it.
I guess you don’t have a problem with those. The resolution
with the changes is what is before the council now.
Councilman Snyder said and I think Seth had already gone
over what he proposed. Councilman Noll said the
Emergency contact list and the fire chief being in
charge of it. Councilman Snyder said if there is no
further discussion do I have a motion. A motion to
resolve Resolution 2009-10, by Councilman Myers.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.
Visitors(cont.) Page 13
Councilman Snyder said now we will continue on with visitors.
They were the only ones that I had on my list, are there any visitors
that would like to be recognized.
David Naylor said David Naylor, 93 E. Pennsylvania Avenue. I
apologize for not being formally on the agenda. I’m here in reference
to N. Charles Alley. I’m here and have been in the past, to claim
title to N. Charles Alley. I went back to and documented the council
meeting back in 1997. My efforts have been constrained by the office
hours. I do have and would like to read, several sections from
various minutes, from 1997 to June 2008. I tried to make copies but
ran out of ink. As to the information provided in the past, I expressed
my interest in the borough. I and my attorney tried to claim a quiet
title to the alley. Mr. Solymos you are aware of that. Solicitor
Solymos said I talked to your attorney at several occasions. We’ve being working fine with it. I don’t know if he’s been back to you. We talked
Friday. I gave him an approach on what he might what to specifically
doing, and I reported that back to borough council. Mr. Naylor said I
haven’t heard from him. Solicitor Solymos said give Gene a call.
Mr. Naylor if I may at this point read from the minutes, I have been here in the past. I have a letter for all of you, expressing my interest in the alley.
In 1997, from the minutes, I want to purchase from the borough, North
Charles Alley. To get information about acquiring the alley. Mrs. Stump
said the borough doesn’t own the alley, and even if the borough had, over
some period of time, the rights to open the alley, it didn’t mean we own the land underneath. Mrs. Stump advised Mr. Naylor to get a surveyor or lawyer. Mrs. Stump also added that even though there are no public rights
there, there may be some private ones. Mr. Naylor may have do some research at the courthouse. There are several in between I have be unable to get access to. Solicitor Solymos said Mr. Naylor said I think I can explain to borough council after to talking to your attorney what you are seeking here and borough council may have questions of me. The borough has an alley.
There was an action of quiet title against a private individual. The borough
wasn’t named. In reviewing this matter and checking with Sam, it was confirmed that it is a borough alley. At which point, you are not a part of
whatever they do between the two of them, its between the two of them and let’s acknowledge that. Mr. Campbell and I discussed that. I reported
Visitors (cont.) Page 14
back to Mr. Campbell, either withdraw that action or what have, because
he’s trying to close the road based about something that happened between two private parties. It is my recommendation to the borough to bring action, open it, reimburse the borough for any property damages. Then when I spoke Mr. Campbell again, last Friday, Mr. Campbell inquired as to
whether or not the borough was, would consider vacating the alley. That’s
a procedure where a borough relinquishes the rights to a road and it can be done two ways, one is by motion of council and one by the person filing a formal application. Then the borough must, once they get the application,
hold a hearing on a the vacation and so forth. What I did, you have the copies of the letter I sent out, I said I didn’t know what your feeling were about vacation, borough council. But that I thought in any event, borough
council would want Mr. Naylor to be moving party rather than the borough
with respect to vacation documents and all that. And Mr. Naylor assume
the cost and so forth. And he just said here, I want to know what the costs are. So assuming borough council is willing to vacate, I think we need to
prepare a legal document. Then the question becomes, does this municipality want to vacate this alley? I don’t know whether you should. But that is the issue before you. I was led to believe by Mr. Campbell that Mr. Naylor was
specifically told by employees or borough council, that the municipality didn’t care. But obviously or unfortunately, that’s not binding, you must take formal action to go ahead and vacate. Who may have told you that? Mr.
Naylor said Mrs. Stump was one. Solicitor Solymos said that was back in 1997. Mr. Naylor said that dates back. Solicitor Solymos said that is before my time, that’s hard to believe. Mr. Naylor said July 2005, if I may again,
July 2005, spoke to the mayor and zoning officer about the alley next to
my property about the borough abandoning and adding it to my deed. Was
told to draft a letter in this matter and give it to council. Sam Snyder stated
the alley in question was proposed but never opened and officially adopted
by the municipality once an alley is proposed the borough has 21 years in
which to act upon it. The borough never did so and so the borough has no
rights to it. The borough cannot say they are abandoning the rights because
they have no rights. So again, I really think whatever reason I was acting
on this information. I’m just trying to understand why I did what I did.
That is why my attorney didn’t contact the borough because several times,
I was told that it was abandoned and it wasn’t adopted. Why nobody researched it previously I don’t know. That’s where it stands, I am
petitioning the council that they would consider abandoning the alley,
Visitors (cont.) Page 15
vacating the alley. The possibility of reimbursing the borough for that
cost. Solicitor Solymos said I’ve only done vacation work in a
township, I would assume that it’s identical in a borough. I would assume
its identical but I want to take a quick look as to the nature and extent
of a petition and as to whether this is an adequate application or if you need a formal application. That’s all I’m going to do. And then get back to
you and Campbell and give him the thoughts of council on this. But
certainly you would not be acting on the vacation without a formal petition.
I don’t know if this is a formal petition. It’s a request but I don’t know if this covers under the borough code, is enough. And if not, I will tell Mr. Campbell what we need per the borough code, whether it’s a formal
pleading, or whether it’s a letter detailing the exact, we all know where it is,
I don’t, but everyone else knows this road is. I think your request would have to specifically identify how long it is, where it is, name and so on and so forth. And then it be presented. And I think, what it has to do, you have
to advertise it for the public. And I suspect that, that probably could be done by July. Councilman Myers asked there are two different ways that the borough could get rid of it? Solicitor Solymos said the borough can act on
its own, vacate it on its own, without discussing it. You didn’t have application, you just didn’t want it. Councilman Myers asked so we act on our own, what happens then. Solicitor Solymos said well you’re going to have to pay me, we have to prepare the vacation paperwork, do all that stuff. Maybe you don’t want to do that. We’re dollar sensitive. Councilman Myer said if we say we do want to do that, is there something that he reimburses what monies that would cost us. Solicitor Solymos said I would rather have
a petition come from the applicant outside, and then the expense would be.
Its just like you would be applying to the zoning hearing board. Alright.
Rather than the zoning hearing board doing the paperwork for your application. They make application for a hearing before borough council
for the specific situation. Councilman Noll said does that hearing happen,
say at 7:30 during the borough council meeting? Solicitor Solymos said the ones I handled we’ve always done during meetings. Councilman Noll said I was thinking about costs, if you have to bring everyone together for a separate meeting night. Solicitor Solymos said well I think that when you
vacate, you may well need a stenographer. I don’t know. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying for us to give him a cost, I think that its
best that its coming from request from them and that way. Councilman Myers said let me ask you this, if there way that we can tell him, does
Visitors(cont.) Page 16
he have to go through all this stuff for us to say at the very end to say,
sorry we’re not going to do it. Or is that something we can say, yeah
we’ll do it. Why should someone have to. Solicitor Solymos said I don’t think you commit to do it until you’ve got an application and you said it.
It’s a catch 22. What you can do, is acknowledge that there’s a good likelihood that borough council would do this, or might do this. But you can’t bind yourself. Councilman Myers said right. Solicitor Solymos said because you don’t have a petition before you technically. Councilman Noll said you would say that there is a consensus, then, that the borough council has a consensus that. Councilman Allar said its not citizen friendly.
Mr. Naylor said I already laid out $2000.00 acting on information provided me by the council. Be that what it is. That’s why I’m concerned about what its going to cost me again, if there is anyway I can get a number. I mean if its going to cost me an outrageous. Solicitor Solymos said he’s asking you to vacate, we don’t usually sell it to him. But vacation would not involve a sale, it would only involve the cost. Councilman Myers said can we sell it to him
for a dollar, would that make it easier? Solicitor Solymos said I don’t see why you couldn’t but you still have to even when you are selling public property, you’ve got to advertise, everyone has to have a fair chance to bid on it. I’m serious. The application is better, then you notify the adjoining landowners and so forth. Its not inconceivable that an adjoining landowner,
doesn’t want it vacated because they use it. I don’t know. You are the only
one that would be doing that. Mr. Naylor said no, actually there is another
adjoining landowner, my attorney in the process to get my little strip, got documentation from the adjoining neighbor, 105 Pennsylvania Avenue.
And the guy across Pennsylvania. Solicitor Solymos said let me suggest this to you, it would not appear and I’m a lawyer. You can not quote me that I guaranteed you anything. But it would appear that there is a good likelihood or a fair likelihood that if you filed an application to vacate that you would
probably carry through with borough council. Let me be the bad guy and you guys don’t have to do anything okay. And if I’m wrong in that regard, borough council members pipe up now. Thank you, I hear nothing. I will talk to Mr. Campbell. Councilman Myers said let me ask you this, if I as
a council member say I don’t have a problem with we get rid of that piece of property, does that mean anything. If any one of these guys say I don’t have a problem. Solicitor Solymos said until. Councilman Myers said so he knows where we’re coming from. Solicitor Solymos said you’ve heard it.
Visitors(cont.) Page 17
Councilman Allar said you want to go around the table. Councilman
Myers said that’s all I’m saying, I don’t have a problem with getting
rid of the property. I don’t know if that’s legal or not. Councilman Allar said we never use it. Councilman Myers said right. Councilman Allar said and don’t think we’ll ever use it again, I don’t have a problem with it. Councilman Myers said that’s correct, but that doesn’t mean tomorrow we can’t go in and put a black top highway in. Solicitor Solymos said a formal
petition could be filed, I will do quick legal research but that’s my recollection of the nuts and bolts of vacation. I will tell Mr. Campbell.
Mr. Naylor said I had the alley surveyed. Solicitor Solymos said that
would be good. Here’s what we want to abandon to attach. That is fine.
As for lawyer being a bad guy that is highly inconceivable. Solicitor Solymos said I completely agree with you on that. I can only speak for myself I can’t speak for all my brethren. Councilman Snyder said I don’t know how we can give him a cost on that. Solicitor Solymos said when I look at, I haven’t done it for so long. For all I know they’ve changed the
way to do it. Mr. Naylor said here is the legal description of the survey.
Solicitor Solymos said I’m still going to call Gene and let him know the sense I get from council. They’re non committed. Mr. Naylor said and the fact that it was expressed previously. Solicitor Solymos said you’ll have to wait and see. Mr. Naylor said thank you. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight, are there any other visitors that would like to be recognized.
Solicitor’s Report
Solicitor Solymos said only two things that I got feed back on after our last meeting.
Title Solicitor Solymos said one thing was that Jason wanted to
Certifi- have a title certification. I sent that out to Jason. I don’t
cation if you have it in the file or not. I directed it directly to
Jason, it’s a certification. I signed it and approved it.
And Jason is going to direct it to the CDBG, whatever
that grant is. Its done, I’ve taken care of it. Councilman
Noll said that’s DCNR, was that for the park? Solicitor
Solymos said this is for the park. Councilman Noll said
that’s DCNR then. Solicitor Solymos said well, okay.
It says CDBG. The secretary said but that’s different then,
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 18
you’re going to talk about the contract with CDBG.
He’s talking about the title certification for DCNR
for the park improvement project. Now that is what
you sent to Jason, and he needs to forward that as
part, before we get our money from DCNR, correct.
Councilman Snyder said yes. Solicitor Solymos
said you got that. The secretary said I don’t. Solicitor
Solymos said somebody’s got that, I can reproduce
it if need be.
Contract Solicitor Solymos said yesterday afternoon Sandy
for was unable to get ahold of Sam, the CDBG grant
CDBG contract, in which the municipality was asked to
sign. I don’t know if you folks have it or seen
it. The secretary said only Sam has the original. I just
got it on Friday. Solicitor Solymos said its two and
half pages of terms. And starting with number six,
it is some seven and half pages of general terms and
conditions. I reviewed the general terms and conditions.
Its standard language for these type of contracts. I don’t
have a problem with any of it. Besides that, you are not
going to get your money if you don’t. Even if I had
a problem and somebody else didn’t. What I don’t know
is, what you agreed to get your $100,000.00. There is a
scope of services that has to be reviewed, that scope
that the borough thought, that was involved here. That
involves items A through L and number one. Time and
performance, this is to be terminated December 31, 2009.
Did you know that, I don’t that? I wasn’t involved with
the original negotiations. These type of grants Jason
was going to handle. Its for $100,000.00. And discusses
program income, I don’t know if that was agreed with
the engineer when reviewing that. That’s my report on
that. A motion was made to sign that contract with
York County Planning for the CDBG park improvement
grant by Councilman Noll. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said motion carried.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 19
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I had. Old Business, I would like
to discuss on the ongoing status of the Chronister matter and I’d like
to that in executive session. That does involve litigation.
Councilman Snyder said before we do that, let’s clean up some of this
other stuff.
Resolution Councilman Snyder said I guess we’re up to Resolution
2009-11 2009-11 for Act 32. We briefly discussed that, that’s
where they sent York Adams Tax Bureau. Solicitor
Solymos said they’re asking you and I reviewed that
resolution, its fine, to do what you have to do with the
bureau. Councilman Snyder said they want one voting
delegate and one alternate to represent the subdivision.
I figured we could, I think its Bruce currently for the
tax bureau. I don’t know why they need this, I haven’t
figured it out. The secretary said I don’t think people
are coming, they’re trying to say your vote matters.
Councilman Snyder said I thought it had something to
do with the new Act 32 that was past. So. A motion
to resolve Resolution 2009-11, and we’ll keep our
representation the same until we reorganize until
re election. A motion to resolve that was made by
Councilman Myers. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said so be it resolved.
Update Councilman Snyder said this was brought up two
of Flood meetings ago, and we’re getting to the point, and I
Plain looked at the minutes and I didn’t see any action was
Ordinance taken on it last month. Basically we need to update
our flood plain ordinance to come in compliance
with the Federal model ordinance. That has a September
deadline. That job has not been given to either Pete
or to our engineer to do. I think Jason briefly looked
over it and said there, ours is pretty much in line but
there is going to have to be some tweaking done. So
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 20
we have to make a determination on whose going to
actually tweak our ordinance to come into compliance
with this. Mr. Klinedinst said Jason said in his report,
that he completed the flood plain ordinance, forwarded
comments to FEMA. He will forward the ordinance to
the borough solicitor, once all the comments have been
addressed. He’s taking care of it. We’ve done seven or
eight of these. Councilman Snyder said okay. Solicitor
Solymos said Jason is doing two for me, here and Hellam.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what is this is too, I guess.
Ordinance Councilman Snyder said that ordinance is still outstanding.
2009-01 Pete has a notation for that. Our first ordinance of course
Error had a typographical error, it should have been effective 2010
instead of 2009. It was already passed and everything, we’re
just waiting for the revised one that has 2010 before we can
actually sign off on that. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll send that
out. The secretary said I’ll send that out along with the
one for tonight to the newspaper, correct? Solicitor Solymos
said yes.
Councilman Snyder said the only other thing was, we’re getting down to
Solicitor/Engineering. I wasn’t sure if you needed to discuss this in
executive or not. And that is, is anything you may have found out on
the enforcement notice from DEP.
Enforce- Solicitor Solymos said I never seen it, I don’t know anything
ment about it. The secretary said I wasn’t instructed to send a copy.
Notice I gave it to Jason, Sam and Tom Allar, so. I didn’t read it.
Councilman Snyder said from the Corps of Engineers.
Councilman Noll said it was resulting from the meeting that
was with the Army Corps of Engineers. Councilman Snyder
said if you can’t update us, then I guess. I just thought it
was a solicitor issue, that is why I had I down for the solicitor,
to bring it up. Mr. Klinedinst said I have it in my report, I
can address it when we get there. Councilman Snyder said
usually see what happens is that the solicitor ends up leaving.
And in all honestly. Councilman Allar said Sam, I think its
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 21
primarily for the engineer to go over. There is a cease
and desist order. Solicitor Solymos said I heard a rumor
to that affect, but I’ve never seen it. Councilman Allar said
the second paragraph, page 3. One issue, on one of
legal aspects of the basin. Dana has worked out an arrangement
with the Sheriff’s Department, that crews can go out there
and take care of all the weeds and woody growth and stuff
like that. Which would be very beneficial to Yoe Borough.
Save us costs until we do the final dredging contract. Its
also going to be make Red Lion happy, they’re going to
be dump site, they don’t want any of that. If we can pull it
out now then that benefits everyone. However, we don’t
know the definition of cease and desist at the basin, for
that particular waterway. Maybe John can fill us in.
Solicitor Solymos said John’s has seen it more than I have.
Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll give you the two cent tour. The
two cent tour is, the Army is saying the permit that was
issued in 1997, had a bunch of issues attached to it, including
providing .76 acres of wetland. And filing monitoring report,
survey and conservation easement and everything else.
Inspection took place in 2009, Army visibly saw that the
wetlands that had been created, partially had been destroyed.
They don’t think that the other wetland is going to be good.
They haven’t gotten the reports that they required. And
therefore the completed work, now this is the work from
1997, did not conform to the special conditions. And then
they gave you a cease and desist, I’m not sure what that
means because you’re not doing anything. Councilman
Allar said this is why I’m bringing up the option that we
have, let’s say, we have an opportunity through the Sheriff’s
Department to go out there and remove the trees and the
woody growth. It will help us and save us money if we
remove that before we move the soil to Red Lion. I don’t
think that’s what they’re look at. They’re looking at wetlands.
That is where this is coming from. But we’re going to
need some verification on that. I told Dana set up the MOU
but since we don’t have a start date. We don’t want have
any more problems. Mr. Klinedinst said well, the third
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 22
paragraph here, you guys are all going to jail. Councilman
Snyder said here’s what my concern. Solicitor Solymos
said for federal rules, you may get 60 days in Allenwood.
Councilman Snyder said here’s what my concerns were,
which is why I thought this was a legal issue. I’m looking
at what they’re alleging. Number one, I disagree with,
we complied. Number two, I disagree with, we complied.
Number three, I disagree with, we complied. Councilman
Allar said they want a response from the engineer.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m getting at. Then
we did not comply with number 7, we did not comply with
number eight, we did not comply with number 9 from
what I can tell. However those issues should have been taken
care of by Rettew Associates in 97. Now what I read in the
minutes, where you’re looking at trying to get this wetland
mitigated in York Township somewhere else at a cost of
$5000.00. And I’m thinking to myself, excuse my French,
I’m damned if we should put out one penny when this, we
complied with the first three. We should tell them that and
the other ones we, we are the permittee holder so the buck
stops with us. But by God, I would have gotten Rettew on
the phone and said, okay folks, lets pony up here and
bring them on board. And that’s a legal issue, that was
a breach of contract and I don’t have a problem of trying
to mitigate it down in York Township but I’ll be damned
if we should pay $5000.00, which we don’t have by the
way to mitigate this when we need to be talking with
Rettew. Mr. Klinedinst said, here’s what the letter says
to me, the first two pages, say here’s all the conditions
you did meet. We came down and we looked at it. Here’s
what we’re asking for. On the third page, it identifies
0.76 acres of wetlands on an alternate site. Number two,
do a wetland mitigation plan as part of the .76 site and
they do address conservation easement. All three of those
are about the new .76 acre of mitigation. Which I believe
that after talking to Jake Romig have been identified
where we have included our .76 acres and that goes away.
Solictor’s Report(cont.) Page 23
But what this is saying to me, Mike Danko is saying, you
didn’t do what you were suppose to do, but if you do this,
we’ll sign off. Solicitor Solymos asked do we need to
send him a letter, can we do that. Mr. Klinedinst said
we need to send him a letter and we’re going to provide,
but you need a timeframe as to when you’re going to do
it. Councilman Snyder said one thing that I mean, the
submission is as it is. Well. Mr. Klinedinst said he’s saying
you didn’t do that. Those wetlands aren’t any resource, he
doesn’t care about that wetlands as built. Councilman Snyder
said I’m also concerned about the five year monitoring of
the new wetlands. They made that statement, we didn’t do
it the first time around. And oh yes we did. Mr. Klinedinst
said apparently they don’t have any record. Councilman
Allar said they don’t have any reports, I covered that with
him. Councilman Snyder said that’s not our fault. Maybe
they got lost somewhere in their office, but by God we paid
for them and we did them and we have copies of them.
Councilman Allar said what John is saying, its academic,
they’re not going to let us re-establish wetlands. What
we did or didn’t do, its not worth fighting over. We have to
move forward, where are the wetlands going to be moved
to and is that acceptable to the Corps of Engineers. Solicitor
Solymos asked how complex is it to response to. Mr. Klinedinst
said not very, as long as we can pin down the .76 acres. I’m
saying if you submit this information to DEP and they sign off
on it. If you find .76 acres of wetland, give us a wetland plan
and give us a conservation easement. We get the permit. If
you get us these things, we sign. We’re going to give you a new
permit but there are going to be two conditions in that new
permit. One, submission of as built plans on newly constructed
wetlands sit, and two, annual monitoring reports for five years.
So, if you give them, the new wetlands and the conservation
easement, they’re going reissue the permit with the requirement
you provide, that you will monitor it for five years. That’s
something you have to decide. Councilman Noll asked how
sure is this new sight. Councilman Allar said as I mentioned
to John and to Steve, we’re going to have to get together with
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 24
York Township and Jake Romig, to nail all that down.
Nail timelines down and get some sort of okay to go
along with John’s submission to Corps of Engineers
so they know, that we’re not just making this up.
We have an actually property, and the owner saying
yes, he’s will to allow us ¾ of an acre. So all that
has to be diagramed before John responds. We have
120 days, we’ve already lost 30 days. So we’re down
to 90 days now to meet their deadline. But all this
means is meeting with York Township, I already
talked to Miller, he doesn’t seem to have a problem.
Talked to Jake, that was about a month ago. And I
have a call into him. And John, you’re working with
Steve, and someone have a sit down so we can go
through. Mr. Klinedinst, when Steve gets back from
surgery, we’ll be sitting down and trying to help you
with that part of it. The issue becomes, you have to
respond. What is your position? If you are willing to
accept the conditions to move ¾ acres of wetlands
someplace else, and get a conservation easement on
it and you are prepared to give them a built as plan,
and you are willing to monitor it for five years. It all
goes away. If you want to fight that, you can fight that.
There are courses of appeal to the program. Councilman
Allar said if we fight it, they will come back with both
feet standing, that we are not compliant. Mr. Klinedinst
said I just wanted you to see it as an option. Councilman
Snyder said no, what I’m more concerned about, is the
way this is not stymied, our entire dredging project. I
am concerned that we are going to be spending
engineering dollars, somebody’s dollars to work out
this issue basically. Okay, that was not planned for by
this municipality. And what I enumerated in the very
beginning, that $5000.00 figure that came up at last
month’s meeting with the wetland mitigation. And I’m
looking at adding a cause of action, which as why I
was I was looking at our solicitor, because I’m looking
at a cause of action at Rettew. And I’m thinking, somebody
Visitors(cont.) Page 25
I would have thought you would have been brought on
into this, the engineer and the solicitor need to be working
on this, to be getting Rettew on board because we’re
expecting compensation for something. Because we don’t have the kind of money to go out, I don’t care if they
give us the wetlands. We don’t have money to say, we’re
going to reimburse York Township $5000.00. And what
he’s saying, we can’t even give them a response, to say
we’ll accept this without even having that sit down with
York Township and knowing that this is going to happen.
So, we got to put those in affect first. Solicitor Solymos
said send a letter out to the Corps of Engineers, tell them
that its being reviewed by our engineer and our attorney
and we are optimistic that we will resolve this well within
the timeframe. Let them. Councilman Allar said this
was sent by certified mail, Sandy signed for it. Mr.
Klinedinst said it wouldn’t hurt anything but Mike Danko
knows it. One of the other things that I have on the report,
is the waiver of permit for the dredging project to Danko.
These are all inter related. He knows we are applying for
that, what the Army Corps of Engineers wants is to get
the past messed cleaned up, until we start anew. That is
my reading. Solicitor Solymos said I haven’t read the letter,
some of you folks can refresh my recollection. I thought
back in maybe February, January, or sometime, there was
discussion about this, someone was going to get ahold of,
maybe Jason, or maybe it was Tom was going to get ahold
of Rettew and tell Rettew to get on the ball and give us
information that somebody, that somebody wanted information.
Councilman Allar said Jason contacted Rettew, Rettew failed
to do reviews. But again, that’s not what they’re asking for.
What John is saying is, we have to decide where the wetlands
are actually going to be. We can go back to Rettew, but how
are we going to hold them responsible. There is no issue out
there, the wetlands are going to fail because too much drainage,
too much power coming down in the creek. Rettew is going
to say we failed to file the monitor reports, that has nothing
to do with the wetlands. The wetlands failed, they got silted
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 26
over. Yoe Borough is responsible. You can’t hold Rettew.
And even if you could, whatever money you save on
engineering, you’re going to spend with Pete on legal fees.
Solicitor Solymos said my time would be 1/10th of what
the time, you guys would have to put in. Councilman
Allar said that doesn’t change the result, the result failed
because the wetlands failed. Councilman Snyder said they’re
not complaining on the fact that they failed, they’re
complaining, of what we adverted and what we did not do
and now they’re saying because they have failed, we’re not
going to allow you to put them back where they were. They’re
saying, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, which we did
do. And the other three things had to do with the easement
for the as built. Which is Rettew’s responsibility. Solicitor
Solymos said I haven’t reviewed, I can’t say, I’ve known
John Klinedinst for thirty five years. I respect John’s
ability. So. You guys worked it out with him. And if you
find out that the legal issues need to get back to me on,
get back to me on. I don’t know. Councilman Allar said
you can’t re establish the wetlands, remember when this was
built in 98, it didn’t have all these developments upstream.
The amount of water that is coming down is four times
what it was. It is clear, that its impossible to put wetlands
in Basin 1. Even in Basin 2, it’s the wrong type. Councilman
Snyder said I’m just saying, we do not have the money to
pursue this, we have to pursue it, and we’re missing an
opportunity of not going after Rettew and bringing them in
on board of this and see how they can help, even its to give
us the $5000.00, that was discussed last month that York
Township is looking at mitigating these wetlands. I mean
we don’t have this money. Mr. Klinedinst said the five years
of reports, they are liable. Councilman Snyder said we did
that, but because we are moving the wetlands they are looking
at five years. Councilman Allar said that wasn’t Rettew’s
responsibility. Councilman Snyder said it was ours and
we did that. Councilman Allar said it was actually Kinsley,
they subbed, through some sort of agricultural type that thing,
to actually monitor. The secretary said I don’t remember
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 27
seeing a reports like that. Councilman Snyder said I remember
a report with pictures of the dam. The secretary said that
was the dam inspection report that is done every year. That
is all I’ve seen in the last couple years. I don’t remember
seeing a wetland report. Councilman Allar said when they
did an inspection out there, he would call Harrisburg.
Mr. Klinedinst said I recognize that particular aspect of
it , I think what Mike Danko was saying off the record, there
are no wetlands there anymore. You have a permit, but they’re
not there. Councilman Noll said what if magically we come
up with the $5000.00. How long would it take? Mr. Klinedinst
said I think if you respond to them within 120 days, you are
sitting there holding a request for a waiver for a permit. In my
mind, they are related, if you get a valid answer, maybe get
the waiver for the permit. Councilman Noll said and at that
point get moving for pricing done. Mr. Klinedinst said the
two issues, I’ve been down to look at this, I looked at the basin
with Tom. I know a lot more about this now than I ever did.
If the request, you get the response and the response is okay,
that you request for a waiver, I’m going deny the waiver. You
need a joint permit. That is a six month project. You
theoretically could bid, but you can’t start the work. I was
talking to Tom, I’m not sure what all this is funded by, which
one is used. Jason has confirmed that the Growing Greener
grant is still out. I don’t know about that $15,000.00 county aid.
You have inter-municipal cooperation with different
municipalities. I assume they’re valid. The key right now in
my mind, whether your next step, is the answer you file in
this letter. Councilman Allar said that is why we keep coming
back to we need to get together with York Township, Jake
Romig whether the wetlands can be allocated to us. Get
the appropriate documentation. We actually do have a site
identified. Councilman Noll said if we decide to do this
project,yes we obligated , we have to go forward. Mr.
Klinedinst said there are two separate issues, but related.
Councilman Noll said we’re going to wind up spending
money no matter what. Councilman Allar said we will probably
be fined, and end up complying anyway. Councilman Noll
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 28
asked what are your thoughts on that John? Mr. Klinedinst
said, in my opinion, you don’t have any option. You are not
complying with the original permit, if you do this, we’ll
give an easement. Councilman Allar said we need to move
fast enough, that maybe they will let you dredge where you
want. Mr. Klinedinst said in their minds, where you want to
dredge in one of those wetlands. Councilman Allar said the
hard part is going to be getting the land. Mr. Klinedinst
said you’re going to take the ¾ acres from up at the
upper basin that you are on the permit for and you’re going
to move them someplace else. They’re not wetlands anymore.
Jake is apparently working on another site. The secretary
said there is one on Camp Betty Washington. Councilman
Allar said there are seven acres on the Mill Creek Preservation,
Jake Romig has submitted to York Township, and Jake is
working on a grant. I don’t know how much money is involved.
He was made aware that we would probably be needing
¾ acres. I don’t know. Councilman Noll asked is that
$5000.00 a firm figure? Councilman Allar said no its not
a firm figure until we sit down with York Township and Jake
and find out. I don’t know. We don’t know. We don’t know
what the expense is going to be to run the cameras. Councilman
Snyder said so to be able to put this to bed, because we’re
still under Solicitor’s Report, one thing I need clarified,
because I hear a lot of, we need to do this, and we need to do
that. I also see a new face sitting, and there is going to be
another new face sitting here next month. When you are
saying, we need to sit down with York Township and Jake
Romig, are you talking about C. S. Davidson or are you talking
one of us? Councilman Allar said I think C. S. Davidson needs
to lead us. Councilman Snyder said okay, we need to know who
is taking the lead on this, because the clock is ticking and
again, we need to know again if C. S. Davidson is taking the
lead on this, who from C. S. Davidson is representing the
borough. Mr. Klinedinst said the only thing that is changing is
we’re proposing to switch from Jason Reichard to Steve
Malesker. The commitment that I will make to you is, if
you direct C. S. Davidson the directive to monitor this by the
deadline, it will be done. Jason will be involved, Steve will
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 29
be involved and John Klinedinst will be involved. It will
get done. That is my commitment. If you need me.
Councilman Snyder said I still think if we are looking at
money here, that we don’t have, and that we don’t know
what it is, I think we should have engineer whomever it
is, to discuss legal options, because there was definitely
a breach here by Rettew. I think we should be going
after them for something, even if its. Solicitor Solymos
said I’d be happy to discuss that with John, together
on that, on the issues. Councilman Snyder said what our
professional engineer knows more about what these
conditions mean, what needs to be done, what wasn’t
done and how to protect these permits. Our solicitor
is our professional that would know how does a breach
of contract, in relationship to that, how the interacts. So
I think if we give them marching orders that the two of
them at least touch bases to see how we bring Rettew
into this. Just like Seth just brought up, now we have
more acreage than what we originally thought, that
$5000.00 figure may not be any good. We only have
so much money to go into there, we need to be tapping.
I know what you’re saying Tom, that it’s the failure
of the wetlands and that’s not due to not Rettew fault.
But at the same point, we have some very legitimate
issues that Rettew failed and breach of contract on it
that we paid for. And I think if we can get any money
out of them, its gonna help. Mr. Klinedinst said
as long as we don’t delay our response to the Army
Corps. Councilman Snyder said exactly and that’s why
the engineering aspect and the legal aspect are two
different things. If we have to fork out $20,000.00, by
God, we’re going to fork it out, so we’re not going
to be found not in compliance. Pete needs to know that,
so if we expend $20,000.00, he knows what we’re
going to go after, and Rettew we’re knocking on your door.
Solicitor Solymos said and yes, Rettew would be liable.
Councilman Snyder said yeah, I mean that. Solicitor
Solymos said I don’t if there is any liability. Councilman
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 30
Snyder said I apologize I thought you were brought up
on this. I mean but now we’re. Solicitor Solymos said
you’ve got John going, taking care of the Army Corps
of Engineers. But if there is, in analyzing this, if there
is anything the Corps of Engineers are saying, that could
have been avoided by any action of Rettew then we might
have legal action. You don’t have to make that call. If
Rettew had done that, this wouldn’t had happened. And
therefore you wouldn’t have been out on the limb.
Councilman Allar said Rettew had done the as built
easement, the wetlands would have failed any way.
It wouldn’t have changed. Solicitor Solymos said
and that’s fine. Councilman Allar said we can send
a letter, with the concerns by Jason, saying not doing
what was part of their contract, maybe we can say,
we request a certain amount of money for their failure
to perform. Solicitor Solymos said let me talk to
John and Jason. I think that is simple. Mr. Klinedinst
said if council would authorize C. S. Davidson to
send a response to the Army Corps of Engineers and
consult the solicitor on the liability issues. A motion
made to Councilman Noll to have C. S. Davidson
take the lead as to prepare a response and coordinate
solicitor for any potential liabilities against Rettew.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Councilman Snyder said now we’re still under solicitor, with a request
to go into executive session.
Cease Councilman Allar said before we go into executive session
and Jason asked me. There is an opportunity to work with
Desist the Sheriff’s Department, with the letter containing an
item on cease desist. You may not know tonight, but you
may be able to find out. By going in there , is that
considered a violation of the cease of desist. We currently
we have done lawn mowing, but we have some woody
growth to get out of there so when we do the dredging we
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 31
don’t have to deal with that. Mr. Klinedinst said non
compliance of an authorization including general
antiseptic use is a violation, if you are working
non compliant, any sort of work. You can get by
grass cutting. Councilman Allar said you don’t want
to have rodents there. I think that may fall under
health and safety inspection. Mr. Klinedinst said I think
if you don’t, you don’t want rodents. Councilman
Noll said we are going to walk on eggshells. Councilman
Snyder said you are going to take charge and coordinate
with Pete. Councilman Allar said I’d like to be at the
meeting with York Township. Mr. Klinedinst said I think
the first contact we’re going to make is with Jake Romig.
Have a meeting with him and get everyone up to date.
Councilman Allar asked is Dennis Henry still out there?
Mr. Klinedinst said no. Councilman Noll said he retired
in January, they have a new engineer.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else then before we
go into executive session. We also have some other things
with zoning in executive.
Recessing the Regular meeting at 8:50PM to go into Executive Session
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to recess the regular
meeting at 8:50PM to go into executive session. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Reconvening of the Regular Meeting at 10:14PM
Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect that we discussed
the litigation issues and came up with the following decisions:
A motion was made by Councilman Noll for Pete to proceed with the
litigation in the Chronister case to use his best judgment and authorize
the expense of a stenographer if so needed. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion
carried.
Reconvening of the Regular Meeting at 10:14PM Page 32
A motion for the solicitor to review the facts and conclusions to the
recently held zoning hearing of 105 E. Pennsylvania Avenue and to
file appropriate appeals if he deems necessary and get stenographer
report if he feels necessary by Councilman Noll. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
A motion was made by Councilman Howett for our solicitor to draft
a letter to Mr. Naylor to summarize his statement. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.
Engineer’s Report
Change Mr. Klinedinst we are changing your meeting rep from
Of Jason Reichard to Steve Malesker. Whom I think you
Rep ought to know. Steve’s actually represents Dallastown,
and the authority. You will find his experience is more
of a structural engineer, structural and municipal. So,
you are going to find that he has some skills that Jason,
doesn’t have and probably doesn’t have some that Jason
had. Jason is still is sitting in the same office, he just
has different responsibilities. So that is how I wanted
to start out. But that doesn’t supply my explanation of
why I’m here. Steve had surgery and Steve couldn’t
make it tonight. So since I spent some time talking to
council, touring the borough, looking at the basin and
I familiar with that situation, I was the logic one to
come down, unless you really need me. I’m always
available. Councilman Snyder said I wasn’t invited
to the meeting between the council and C. S. Davidson.
What I will say, I liked your approach tonight. I felt
it was very professional and well done. You have a
pretty good handle of what our issues are. You sat in
on our executive session. You saw the current report.
I would hope that C. S. Davidson made the right
decision of whom they replaced Jason with, because
I really feel comfortable with you that you have a
handle on especially our dam project and all the issues
associated with that. I would personally don’t know if
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33
I ever met Steve. When you say he’s a structural engineer.
I hope, because I personally like Jason, I thought he handled
us well and that’s neither here or there. I hope C.S. Davidson
is matching Yoe Borough up with what we need in an
engineer. Mr. Klinedinst said we think we are, I will make
this commitment to council, if for some reason, here’s the
deal, there’s chemistry between any rep and any client.
If for some reason the chemistry is not there between Steve
Malesker and this council, call me. If nobody else knows
how to get me, Barry knows how to get me, Seth knows how
to get me, Tom knows how to get me. And if I have to come
down in the meantime until we find a better fit, I’ll come
down, I’ll make that commitment. I’m down to two municipal
clients now myself. I don’t do this on normal basis anymore
but as to where I’ve been doing it, I have represented
Wrightsville Borough since 1973. I know how to do this and
what I know tonight, and why I represent tonight, is a lot of
homework with Tom and Seth and Barry. And pulling the files
out and spending a lot of time with Jason going over. When
you pinch hit for someone, you are walking in cold. But I
tried to be prepared as a possibly could, but I’ve done this
work for 35 years now. Trust Yoe has special problems, but
every municipal client does. So that’s the commitment that
I’ll make,you won’t see unless you ask for me. Councilman
Snyder said I just want to make sure I know that this meeting
was held, we want to move forward, into a good working
relationship. I just want to make sure of. Mr. Klinedinst
said I don’t want to interrupt you but another reason that
I was down here why I was down previously was because
of issues on your project and there a lot of issues for a lot
of different reasons. I will not put Jason under the bus, he’s
a good guy. No matter why we are where we are with your
budget, I’m the President of Company. We will face it,
we will get it done. You charged us with that responsibility.
The Corps of Engineers. Other than that, there wasn’t
that much on the report.
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 34
Park/ Mr. Klinedinst reported we did submit the contract to
DCNR to DCNR.
Flood Mr. Klinedinst said the flood plain ordinance wasn’t
Plain anything more on that.
Growing Mr. Klinedinst said the Growing Greener there is
Greener another Growing Greener coming out. As of tonight,
I don’t know what the parameters are for that one.
Floodplain management, as opposed to other stuff
that I’ll find out for you. Councilman Allar said I was
going to ask you about that. Mr. Klinedinst said I
will find out for you very quickly. Its been couple
of days, when I came down, Tom showed me the
basin, I looked at the park. I didn’t know you had
a park. Its been a very interesting experience for me.
It gives me a better appreciation on how I can go back
and get my personnel assigned and get your job.
Jason is not going anywhere trust me. Our challenge
is to get a smooth transition for the project. You won’t
pay for it. I’m make sure Steve comes down here,
he’s fully educated, to address problems. And if there
is problem with that, my name is on the company
letterhead.
Park Councilman Noll asked where do we stand on the park
Project project as far as you feeling on getting everything in
and we need to send out bids. Mr. Klinedinst said
we will be bidding it this summer. As soon as we
get something back from DCNR, as soon as we
get departmental provisions to Steve. Probably
by the middle of August. Councilman Noll said we
have to have the money spent by the end of the year.
Mr. Klinedinst said I think we can do that. Assuming
that DCNR doesn’t take an extraordinarily long time.
Steve is aware of the scheduling. Councilman Noll asked
once that happens, I would be involved, keep me in line.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
Meeting Councilman Noll said the only other thing, in that meeting
we had C. S. Davidson. I don’t see blame, in least of
my opinion. It’s a relationship issue. And there are some
things we have to work on, two of those things that
would help Davidson, if we could come up with a list
of items, we know that need to be repaired, whether
it would be bridges, as far as of other problems or issues
that way they can start hopefully, arming them up with
grants and other things to help out. Where to find the
money for us. The other things, to think about, how
we do projects like this, how we interact. Get one
consistent person to make all the phone calls that
we need. Something to think about it, a person
or committee. Mr. Klinedinst said that we just know
that the person we are working for , has direction
from the council. Have approval during the month,
because approval during the month is critical. The
last thing, whether council even knows the capabilities
of the borough engineer. What happens sometimes,
we have a ten to fifteen presentation of what we do,
there is a lot of stuff we do that you aren’t aware of,
talking about zoning ordinances, estimates,
inspections, structural bridges and buildings. Councilman
Noll said if you have marketing materials that you can
get us, that we can truly know the best possible way.
I thought it was a very good meeting. Councilman Snyder
said I wasn’t there, I heard some of the things that came
out of it and there were some positive things that came
out of it. Hopefully we can all learn. One thing that I
personally think that we as a council need to do, and
I’m going to ask C. S. Davidson to help us out in this,
because one thing that I see that this council has a
tendency to do. We get sidetracked quick and lose sight
of the overall issue. This dredging project is a good
example. It started as a dredging project and then materialized
with this with Chronister to a monitoring project. That we
were going to get monitors down there and we were going to
see how much that would cost and where we go from there.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
Next thing you know we are getting all these other engineers
involved in a monitoring project. Then it became a project
of in with York Township. We’ll just coordinate this with
upstream York Township, and it became bigger. And then
next thing you know four years down the road, we still
don’t even have a dredging project. And I think, I for one,
I know I have always voiced my opinion with Jason, I said
I think that C. S. Davidson can come right out and I think
this council needs it, to say we would more than happy to
do that for you folks, understand we’re changing the
whole scope here. Unless you slap us over the head, with
it, its really easy to get off target. Because so many different
things out there, to say hey look this is a good idea. And
the next thing we know, we don’t know how that is affecting
the overall core of project. Councilman Noll said that is exactly
what we said to them that we need someone to direct us.
Councilman Snyder said to keep us focused. Councilman Noll
said exactly and that came out very part of the meeting, one
of the ways that they will provide us a time table of how
long things will take for projects. Councilman Snyder said
I can see, we’re going to work on this dam, Army Corps
of Engineer thing, that’s going to take three to four months
and what’s falling behind the dredging project. Its really
easy to happen. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll try to expedite that,
our standard policy today, I hammer this into our client
managers, department managers, I want to know what the
scope, budget and schedule. Very simple stuff. If you
understand the scope, you understand the budget, you
understand the schedule of your client. And you change
the scope,budget, schedule, that’s fine as long as everyone
agrees to change the scope,budget and schedule. But I agree
with you about the project, my gathering of the last week.
A simple maintenance project, you didn’t need any permits,
you bid, it was more than what you expected to pay. That’s
when you started down the slippery slope. Because, this
is a Klinedinstism, you started chasing money. When you
start chasing money,you start with accepting the rules of
money. And you get into adapt the project to the money.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37
Instead of to the project. Sort of like a non profit
instead of a mission, it began to be revenue driven instead
of mission driven. Anyway, we’re just trying to, I think
it was a productive meeting at the standpoint of, forget
about what we’ve done in the past or how we got here,
how are we going to operate. Whether its Steve, or its
scope,budget,schedules, try to keep you focused. This
is what we do. 75% of our work is municipal. Councilman
Noll said that’s why at the meeting, we said what are the
problems. Things to solve problems. Mr. Klinedinst said
I will recommend that Steve come and meet with Tom,
or Barry. Take him around the borough, and show him the
borough and bring him, give him a crash course in Yoe
Borough. And talk about your problems. Councilman
Snyder said I know one thing that was brought up,
you mentioned about matching money with projects and
stuff. I saw this come across your desk Dana, I think
we probably need to act upon it tonight. There was something
that was generated maybe from Jason, that was this stimulus
money and had to do with water run off and paving of
streets. And one of the issues that you had brought up was
this alley, here. Mr. Shearer said Clark Alley. Councilman
Snyder said it was this one and Clark Alley. Mr. Shearer
said Jason had asked if had anything. I told him that we
have two alleys that are basically dirt, this one over here
and Clark Alley which is down here behind the fire hall,
next to the gabion work at the creek. Mr. Klinedinst asked
that would be the dirt and gravel program by Gary Peacock
and WAY. Councilman Snyder said I saw some of the
email traffic, I don’t know if it was you or Jason mentioned
that road particularly with all the work with the gabions
would be very simple to put out. Mr. Klinedinst said what
one are you talking about? Councilman Snyder said Clark.
I mean, I would like to include this, if that’s going to take
too much time, if that’s going to take too much money. Let’s
forget it, but at least go for Clark cause if there is stimulus
money out there, its just a matter of time until it needs done
anyways. Mr. Klinedinst said I’m not positive that money
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 38
is stimulus money. I’ve done a dirt and gravel road down
Chanceford Township. And essentially its all about
storm water with grading it, and putting in special stone
mix, or surface that stays. Its solid. Councilman Snyder
said because I think that may have stabilized our
gabions that we don’t have all that drainage coming
from that. I would like to see that project proceed. Like
I said, I wasn’t at the last meeting, you can tell. It only
takes one meeting. Mr. Shearer said basically there was
email traffic back and forth with Jason asking if we had
anything that, I said either the two streets we had and I
know what I saw, they were looking at projects that
were pretty much shovel ready. And he said he felt,
that we were far enough along with the previous work,
on one part to proceed with that. I forwarded a copy
to Sam so if we were interested, you would pretty much
say go ahead. So. I guess I don’t know relayed to proceed
with that or not, there is a deadline here. Councilman
Snyder said we need to know if we can go ahead with that,
get the blessing of council to go for it. If we had to, if
there was any engineering funds there that need to be
expended, because he said it was just going to be lightly,
almost tweak what we already got in order to make this
shovel ready. Expend the liquid fuels monies if we had
to, so we don’t lose this actual money that is available.
Mr. Klinedinst said you authorize Dana to pursue
that money. Not difficult to do. A motion was made
by Councilman Myers to authorize Dana to pursue
that money to get work done at Clark Alley. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Is there anything
else that you need, that was one of them. Are we copasetic
with Main Street? I know that’s an issue. Jason had a very
good idea. If you were up to speed on that with the paving
of Main Street. Mr. Klinedinst said no. Councilman Snyder
said there is a water coming from a natural spring right
around Newton Alley being directed right onto Main Street.
Main Street is now being paved by PENN DOT. That was
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 39
diverted out onto Main Street when the water company
actually doing work in there. They broke a pipe, they
just temporarily out there and said that wasn’t our
pipe to begin with, so Yoe Borough you need to fix
it. Of course, we started to get into a verbal match,
saying you were the one that cracked it. And Jason
had the idea, well look if we do it. Pete said they’re
still a municipal authority, we’re going to end up
with it anyways. And came down to, that we’re going
to need all these permits from PENN DOT and Jason
had this wonderful idea of saying that if they’re going
to be repaving it, let them find it when they come to
repave it come to us. And there going to say, we’re
still in the works of trying to figure out who actually
has to do this work. And now they want to do the work
to keep their project moving. Is there anything you
need for the engineer to do at this point because the
last I heard from you this morning, they now located
that problem. Mr. Shearer said they figured out that
there is problem. I talked to the PENN DOT project
manager. He wasn’t enthusiastic. Originally what
they wanted to do was to divert it into the sanitary
sewer. Where apparently in the 70’s according to the
the guy that was working with the project, he was
working on the project in the 70’s. That was what
PENN DOT decided to do back then. It was permanent
fix then. So, we told them, I called Mark Clark for
reassurance from Holley’s office and said no way
there going to do it. I called the project manager, he
hymned and hauled and said well have to come up
with, figure out how to divert it down the street. The
guy from McMinn’s said, well you know you can
rid of it while we’re here, if we can tie this into the
storm sewer. I called Doug Shaffer at PENN DOT and
said hey look, we have a problem here, if we’ve
got to fix this in the future, while we’re digging and
everything so. You know maybe there is something
that we can do now. That’s where it stands. They
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 40
haven’t gotten back to me as far as what they’re going to
do. Mr. Klinedinst said it would be a lot easier if it
was Kinsley. Councilman Snyder asked so is there
anything that on the engineering standpoint that you
need to involve, I don’t remember exactly what Jason’s idea was at this point, he had a recommendation that
you can say, hey contact this person and say look
this was brought up to our attention. I think this is what
you need to know. Councilman Noll said he thought
basically that when they milled they would put a pipe.
Councilman Snyder said but I think if there is some sort
of notice given from our borough engineer that we
want this addressed properly and not like they did back
then. I mean I’m afraid what they’re going to do, we
want it addressed. I don’t think it was ever an issue
of council not wanting to pay something towards it.
But this gets us from not having to do the curb and
everything. We also probably go through our liquid
fuels money and to do it accurately with the project
number set it up and this is maybe the time where
the engineer says we need to work together on this and
this is what we’re proposing. Mr. Klinedinst asked
do you want to have Jason call Dana, or, we can
certainly do that. Technically something that’s
large, you can do it under an emergency card, under
their detour plan. Watching what they’re doing
down there, is there way around to work with McMinns.
Councilman Snyder said that’s why I’m saying, I’m
asking you your opinion, is this the time to get the
engineer involved, or is it still. Mr. Klinedinst said
to be totally honest with you, I don’t know what the
engineer is going to add to that conversation. If
they know the borough is interested in getting it
repaired correctly. McMinns is a PENN DOT
qualified contractor, take it up with PENN DOT.
I am willing to have Jason or anybody jump into that,
but I’m not sure what value that would be.
Councilman Noll said McMinns is involved with the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 41
asphalt. Councilman Snyder said that’s what we
want to make sure that this was actually corrected
to the way Jason had. Mr. Klinedinst said if we
get an engineer involved, we can’t stop McMinn
any better than you can. Councilman Snyder said
okay, then this was mainly to inform C. S. Davidson.
Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll talk to Jason about it, but
McMinns won’t stop for us anymore than for you.
Councilman Snyder said okay. Just let him know that
we’re at that position. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll advise
him. Councilman Snyder said if, Dana has any questions
or concerns as this transpires throughout the upcoming
days, he should contact Jason. Mr. Klinedinst said
contact Jason. Is council with that? Consensus?
Okay, very good. Mr. Klinedinst said let me give you
a card, again, my commitment is something doesn’t
work out, you call me. Anyone can call me. You want
to kick me out of here. Councilman Snyder said you
can stay as long as you want to. Does anybody have
anything else for engineer?
Growing Councilman Allar said going back to this Growing
Greener Greener. July 17th. Either one of us knows what
Plus to checking on with it. If you find something , Jason
needs to authorize you to go ahead, to give
that response. I’m trying to put this out on the
table, are we doing that, you can authorize C. S.
Davidson to submit an application on this Growing
Greener Plus program for Yoe Borough. Mr.
Klinedinst said that’s what I’ve got to find out,
I’m not quite sure what the parameters are. I can
find out probably tomorrow and get something down
to Sandy or anybody. Councilman Allar said I think
we need to vote to give you authority. All we know
that it’s a July 17th deadline. Councilman Noll said
I think I’d be interested as long as its not a math
program. Mr. Klinedinst said I think that you can,
I know this is going out on a limb but if you want
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 42
to authorize the application, number one as long
as its not a match program and number two don’t
spend more than $2000.00. If you want to put
those conditions on it, and I find out that number
one it’s a match program or number two its going
to cost $10,000.00 to put the grant application out
there. I’m sensitive to financial. I would be honest
with you, I think it doesn’t have anything that you
are going to be able to do, to use. I wish I could have,
I was out at a meeting all afternoon. Councilman
Allar said the only thing that I can think of, is that
we never completed the gabions. Now Jake Romig,
worked an application on the old one. That was
not approved. This is Growning Greener Plus so
I don’t know what the plus means. And again Jake
Romig, drew us a map, he worked up the application.
I’m not clear why that wasn’t approved. Do we
do have a section in town of gabions that are
thirty years old or whatever that needs replacing
so. That falls under water shed protection, restoration,
flood protection. Councilman Myers said we have
a section that was never done. Councilman Allar said
that’s right. We’ve done an original one. Councilman
Myer said I don’t think we had gabions. Councilman
Allar said between Mason and Main. Mr. Klinedinst
said I’m willing with something that is, this uncertain
with council, if we find out tomorrow that they
will fund gabions, we have a lot of the application
work done, it’s not a match, we can file, we can
begin the preparation on a application for the July
meeting to ratify. Councilman Allar said pull out
the old application. Mr. Klinedinst said I’m not
quite sure what the parameters are of the grant,
what the grants for. Number two or whether its
a match or not. Councilman Myers said you can
find out what its for, its just a matter of a phone
call. Mr. Klinedinst said I’ll get the information
down to Sandy tomorrow.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 43
Comment Mr. Klinedinst said just some comments. You
do know Steve he came to a couple of the
meetings. Councilman Snyder said probably
when I see him I’ll. Councilman Allar said
I did check with Dallastown, they gave him
favorable recommendation. And John, if you
don’t know, he is the county engineer. It
comes in handy at times.
DEP Councilman Snyder said the only other thing
which isn’t for the engineer, but is under the
engineer’s report, we did receive word from
EAP DEP about the Emergency Action Plan for
the dams. They did have some changes that
needed to be noted in red. I have since, since
John was actually the one, the mayor, that
actually worked on that for Jason back last
year. I informed him of that, I gave him a copy
of that and he is going to be working on that
while he is off recuperating. So hopefully
that will be ready to give back to the engineer.
That’s all I had.
Mr. Klinedinst said nice meeting you, hope to see you again.
Maintenance Report
Park Mr. Shearer said the park is open, had some water leaks
got them fixed. Did have to replace the hot water
heater, that one that Seth got us last year, I don’t
know if the element went out in it or what. The
hot water wouldn’t stay hot. I went to Lowe’s
and got a 19 gallon tank model. Wire it into the
wiring we had for that. So its no longer a gas
model, its electric. It’s a tank model, keeps
the water hot. But there were some issues up
there last year with not having enough hot water
so I think I get that resolved. I don’t know if
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 44
anything can be done to specialize the building.
I have been marking the bills. Councilman Noll
said it may have gone out with the freezing weather.
Mr. Shearer said that’s the one thing I don’t like
about it, was that. Councilman Noll said I don’t think
you can completely drain those. Mr. Shearer said
that’s, I don’t think it drain all the water out of it.
Councilman Noll said well we tried, but it didn’t
work.
Sheriff’s Mr. Shearer said the MOU for the sheriff’s department
Dept. work crew program is up there in the green folder. I don’t
MOU if that’s something you want to sign or you want me to
sign or what you want to do. Its pretty, it’s a couple
pages, its pretty forward, it says. We agree to utilize
them, give them work, they are going to supervise
them, we’re going to provide them with the tools.
Like we do know for the Adult Probation Crew. The
only difference is, these guys will be under armed
guard. They work on community type projects.
Basically the work we have, the probation crew
do. We are going use them, to get stuff done.
Councilman Allar asked how capable are we,
we talked about the tower to remove it. Mr. Shearer
said I seriously doubt it, they have rules of things
that they don’t do, like plumbing, electrical work.
Councilman Noll said they are laborers. Mr. Shearer
said this is going to be, manual labor. Painting curbs,
mowing grass those types of jobs. Pretty much
what they’re going to do. As long as they can
tie the project into the betterment of the community.
In the prevention of crime in cleaning up the town.
Councilman Allar said he checked with Danko,
for removal of trees. Mr. Shearer said and that is
one of the things I came up with. I had them
up there to look at it. Came down to meet with
me, they seemed not to have a problem with it.
Maintenace Report(cont.) Page 45
They would be able to cut down the trees and feel
hand saws would be the best. Get Red Lion’s
chipper to make mulch. I don’t know, do we
need an official agreement to enter into Sam?
Councilman Snyder said we can sign the MOU.
If council wants to do it. Pete looked over it,
its pretty much standard stuff there. They’re
accepting all the responsibility for the inmate’s
health, well being and performing all functions.
The wages of the inmate work crew are the responsibility
of the county. They are basically assuming all responsibility.
The only responsibility of the municipality is that we will
insure being performed will not interfere, replace, diminish
or override the need to replace an employee’s position.
The said agency will insure the job being performed will
not conflict with any employee union contract. And said
agency will provide any all tools necessary for the job.
So that’s basically it. I don’t have problem signing it.
I don’t know if you have a project for them yet, but
at least its in place if you do. Mr. Shearer said what
they suggested was that get the MOU signed, they had
other municipalities that have signed the MOU and if
you have something come along there is work request
form in that folder. Fill in the work request form, send
it in, they will review the project. If its something that
they can plug into the program, they will schedule a
time. Red Lion’s time will be for brush clearing up
there where the ball field is. Red Lion is making use
of them right now. A motion was made by Councilman
Allar to sign the MOU. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said motion carried.
Chain Mr. Shearer said I did get the chain saw. And I ordered
Saw the rip rap material that around the one concrete box
Rip/Rap there at the top of the dam breast.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 46
Complaints Mr. Shearer reported that I did have some complaints
About about the pine tree I made mention of it last month, the
Pine pine tree at Fourth and Main. I think Dick looked at it
Tree before and was sent back as no violation per our zoning
at that particular time. Since then I took the classes
of LTAP. The state law basically gives us the right,
even since it’s a state road. That any road in our jurisdiction
we can enforce the removal of any site distance hazard.
So I have Todd Trouts, he was one of the gentleman that
came down from Padonia Associates with LTAP for
Broad Street. He came down to help me walk through
the site distance survey of the intersection. What we found
is, its right at the minimum. With a little bit of a cushion.
With the slope of the road, we’re right at a reasonable
stopping distance for traffic coming up the hill, if some
body would pull out in front of them. The one thing is
that, you know being a pine tree into the borough,
it going to continue to grow. I want to draft a letter to
the property owner explaining to them, that I want to
have a meeting on the site with them to discuss our
concerns and that we’ve had complaints as to people
pulling out there and the tree interfering with their site
distance. Let them know they could be liable if someone
would have an accident there. If it continues to be
a problem, they would have to keep it constantly
maintained. Right now that is the best we are going
to be able to do.
Signage Councilman Snyder asked anything else? I just had one
item just as a follow up, if you recall we charged Dana
two to three months ago now to check on the signage
around town. We’re still waiting on that in order to
proceed with codification. Mr. Shearer said I apologize
I haven’t gotten got back to that. Councilman Snyder
said as soon as you can, a lot of these issues that we
have will be addressed with codification. So, but
that’s the latest update on that.
Zoning Officer’s Report Page 47
Councilman Snyder said zoning officer’s report, anything in there?
Councilman Myers said he checked on 92 W. Broad, on 5/27 found
more garbage, has scheduled an inspection for 6/12. One zoning
permit issued to 310 Yoe Drive for an open ground swimming pool.
He filed a citation issued to 53 Church Street for refuse. Grass letters
sent to 39 E. Pennsylvania Ave.,81 E. Pennsylvania Avenue, 377 S.
Main Street and 46 W. Broad. Is that the one catty corner to the fire
hall, right behind the service station, its really high at the creek.
Checked on properties with previous violations. He scheduled a variance
meeting on 5/28 for E. Pennsylvania Avenue. It says here paved area
within less 12 feet site distance of Clark Alley. The Yoe Borough Zoning
Hearing Board approved the variances, consideration of stormwater
management, parking area, roof draining. We’ll supply a copy when
received from the solicitor. Copies of letters are in folder.
Councilman Snyder asked any issues for the zoning officer?
Emergency Management Agency Report
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Mayor and Police Report
Councilman Snyder said no report. He is out on disability.
He is taking care of the DEP issue.
Secretary’s Report
The secretary said no report.
Auditor Councilman Snyder said I only had one thing, did that
Letter came in this month or last month. The secretary said that
came in when I was on vacation. Councilman Snyder said
okay then that is this month, under secretary-treasurer
notation, the borough did receive its audit information from
Stambaugh- Ness. I looked over it there were no significant
deficiencies in risk assessment, they were no material
weaknesses. And organizational structure, they determined
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 48
everything to be sound. So in other words, it was
pretty good audit.
Councilman Allar asked who was here with Connie?
The secretary said that was Ron Crull’s sister.
Dorothea Warner.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else under secretary’s
report?
Unfinished Business
There was no unfinished business.
New Business
YBSA Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect that we
received the quarterly report from the Yoe Borough
Sewer Authority informing us of people who are
delinquent with sewer and municipal service fees.
Attorney Councilman Snyder said the borough was also notified
General from the office of the Attorney General and I’ll
Office be making sure that this gets out into the press. That
Act 132 Act 132 of 2008 is effective July 1, 2009. That act
requires contractors who perform home improvement
for total cash value of $5000.00 or more are required
to be registered with the Office of Attorney General
by July 1st. So that is another safeguard that then
can be used to check on, they should look for as
of July 1st that any contractor that they get should be
listed with the Attorney General Office. Councilman
Noll said that’s for a contractor that does $5000.00
a year, not just per job. Councilman Snyder said yes,
its not just for that for that individual person if he
does more than $5000.00 a year. He has to register
regardless of the job he does. You don’t have to
have a $5000.00 job. The secretary asked who reports
New Business(cont.) Page 49
them if they don’t register. Councilman Snyder said
that’s why I’m getting this out in the press, if they’re
looking at a contractor. The secretary said if the homeowner
is looking at a contractor, they can report them if they
are not registered. Councilman Snyder said correct, they
should only be getting contractors that are registered if
of course. Councilman Noll said by registered, they
have to it in any advertisement, the contractor has a
permanent contract the number and it also has to be
on the contract. The secretary said if they send an
estimate, it should have all that information on it.
Councilman Noll said its just home not commercial.
Councilman Allar asked the Attorney General has some
sort of review? Councilman Noll said yes day to day.
YCPC Councilman Snyder said we were also notified by
York County Planning, again this is like an annual
thing,that there is the three programs used to assist
homeowners on maintaining their homes in safe,
sanitary, healthy environments. The programs
are for owner occupied residents only. The three
programs are the home improvement program,
sewer hook up programs, waterline hook up
program. They are 0% interest deferred loans.
Where the mortgage is placed and it doesn’t
have to paid back until the time they sell.
Councilman Allar said there is one for renters?
Councilman Snyder said yeah there is one for
renters too. York County Weatherization
Program.
Christmas Councilman Myers said I just have two things.
Magic If Sandy can write a letter, for Christmas Magic,
that our week by December 6-12, 2009. And I
don’t know if you can put it on the calendar,
put it on the calendar. The secretary said I will
get Bruce to put it on the website.
New Business (cont.) Page 50
W/C Councilman Myers asked when you get copies of these
Claims claims things, if Sandy could copy that, and have Dana
drop it off at the President of the Fire Company. Every
now and then something gets by us, we don’t see that.
We try to stay up on that as much as possible. Patti is
pretty good with that. Every now and then, the Charley
Webb thing got by us.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for new business?
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder said I do have four additions. Verizon Wireless:
$51.46, MCI:$13.99, Dandy Lion Florist:$10.95 and the balance
of Councilman Crull’s pay to be authorized. A motion to pay
the bills with those additions by Councilman Myers. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said bills are paid.
Adjournment
Councilman Snyder said on behalf of Councilman Crull who is
still with us, Councilman Crull would like to make the motion
to adjorn the meeting at 11:07PM. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
meeting adjourned.
