YOE BOROUGH Pg. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on July 1,2008 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple St., Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by President of Council,
Sam Snyder, at 7PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council members in attendance: Sam Snyder
Others in attendance: Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Connie Crull, Tax Collector
Craig Dallmyer, Property owner
Councilman Snyder asked if everyone had an opportunity to look over the minutes from the prior meeting. Any additions or corrections? Councilman Snyder said to let the record reflect that I will be abstaining because I wasn’t at the last meeting. If they’re no any additions or corrections, do I have a motion to accept? With my abstention. A motion to accept the minutes of the June 3, 2008 meeting was made by Councilman
Noll. The motion was seconded by Councilman Crull. In favor : Councilman
Manns, Councilman Howett, Councilman Allar and Councilman Myers.
Abstaining: Councilman Snyder. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Visitors Page 2
Councilman Snyder said the first one we had on the list is Mr. Bowser concerning his subdivision. He’s not here. The only update that I would have for council, is the last I heard from the zoning officer, he has not applied for any variances as what was discussed at last month’s meeting. He has as of today I guess in this mail there has not been any request for an extension. So than 90 days would be up after or before our next council meeting so I think we need to make a motion to accept or deny and make sure that Jason would send out a letter notifying them of council’s decision. Solicitor Solymos said and Jason would obviously site the specific sections applicable to that. Mr.
Reichard said that I would cross reference what previous letter that mentioned all of that stuff. I’ll copy the county on that also, because there are ones that ultimately will deny it. Councilman Snyder said because as far as I know, it’s still pending. Mr. Reichard said we can deny it for zoning.
Councilman Snyder asked is there any discussion? A motion to deny Mr.
Bowser’s subdivision plan was made by Councilman Myers. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said plan is denied. Do you know off hand what the date criteria to get that notice to him? I think it’s fifteen days or something.Solicitor Solymos said
fifteen days after the decision. Councilman Snyder said high priority then.
Councilman Snyder said next on the visitors list, Mr. Dallmyer. Mr.
Dallmyer said hello. I have apparently there’s some misunderstanding that I have a, subdivided or attempted to subdivide the property that I own on Water Street, but never did. When I receive the letter from Davidson I decided that it’s just too erroneous to subdivide a property that small even to do anything with it. So I very simply went back to where it was originally, precisely, originally purchased, that’s it. And ever since then I’ve been hearing that I subdivided, I haven’t subdivided for a can subdivide it or I can’t do anything with it, it’s been a real problem for me. I’ve had a lot of phone calls, no activity. So tonight hopefully I can get the squared away. For two lots, as of right now, are precisely what I purchased. However, there is a third lot and that lot was the land that was given to the railroad property. Which was on the top of, above both properties. When I purchased it, I do not subdivide but that was added in to have corrective deed, which York
County, the assessment office, but that in so that all they did was when the property was given to the property owner along that rail trail, rail line, it was given to each one individually wherever a lot line was that’s where it was
Visitors(cont.) Page 3
given. It was given and one swat across. All I did was simply have a corrective deed done to that effect. So that land is on the top of each one of those lots. Just as it should be. And I have that here, that everything here I hope that will explain that. I never did subdivide that property. Therefore, it’s the same as it was, when I bought it. I did sell one lot. And that lot is sold to a company,RMA, Inc. They have had purchasers for it and of course they don’t have them right now but they had purchasers for it. What I had to do I gave the right away across the bottom of the property. Which should be no problem to do. You know. And that was a declaration of easement. And that’s it. The properties are the same way they were, there’s no subdivision. I did check to see about sub dividing, it was really two hard. All I wanted to do was to make them two lots, equal. One lot’s large and one lots small. It would be very nice to have them both the same. When I found out it was going to take me time, money and cost me, you know, it wasn’t worth it. So I just discarded that. And never thought about it again. Until just recently when I was told that I subdivided which I didn’t. So what do we do
to get this thing squared away? Solicitor Solymos asked so you have all your documentation here? Mr Dallmyer said I have it here. Solicitor Solymos
said and I will review it, I will get back to borough council at their meeting and after all I’ve done that you will get a copy of the letter I sent to borough
council with my opinion. That’ll put an end to it one way or the other. It’ll be an answer that you’ll be satisfied with or an answer you won’t. I’ll review. Mr. Dallmyer that it’s all here is a shame we just can’t look at it.
Solicitor Solymos said I’ll tell you what, I don’t think just seeing for the first time, with you had indicated when we talked about this week’s ago, you were going to get this stuff to me. It’s not a problem, I need some time to look at it and I need to get my abstract in place. I’ll get back to you. Mr.
Dallmyer said okay. Solicitor Solymos said you can provide me with any of this you want me to have or we can make copies of it, so you know what you have or these copies already for us? Mr. Dallmyer said well they weren’t really for the borough, but I didn’t think I was going to have to leave any.
You certainly can copy it. Solicitor Solymos asked Sandy, can you make copies of it? The secretary asked right now? Solicitor Solymos asked tomorrow? The secretary said sure. Solicitor Solymos said and give Mr.
Dallmyer his original, and then we’ll take a look at it and I’ll run it past my abstractor. Mr. Dallmyer asked what is the problem? Solicitor Solymos said
Visitors(cont.) Page 4
it would appear that you did subdivide. Mr. Dallmyer asked how did I
subdivide? Solicitor Solymos asked which lot did you sell? Mr. Dallmyer
said okay, I sold the back lot. Solictor Solymos asked which is that, number three the railroad property? Mr. Dallmyer said not the railroad property, it isn’t there. Solictor Solymos asked so is this a lot number one or number two? Mr. Dallmyer said that’s the lot I sold. The one without the building on it. Councilman Myers said I thought there was a gentleman that came in here and said he was buying the garage. Mr. Dallmyer said that would be Terry
Geesey, that lives down the street. He wants to buy the garage. Councilman
Snyder said according to you, the tract that has the building on, on your deed, is listed as tract one. Mr. Dallmyer said tract one. Councilman Snyder
said and then the one that you sold its tract two? Mr. Dallmyer said yes,
tract two. And here’s the only difference, the only difference is, on this, right up here, this thin strip was also listed on my deed, as tract three. And what I did was went back to the county and said hey, this was as a matter of fact, my attorney did it of course I didn’t do it. And said here it is, it should have been with this property with each one of these deeds, when it was given. It was given for free. And so all they did, was put a line in there, and that I think is what Davidson asked for, in this letter right here. You wanted a lightning strike or something. Mr. Dallmyer said the deed for this property, encodes the third parcel, the Maryland Pennsylvania railroad property must be delineated on the plan and shown as being added to the proposed lot with lightning strikes. The engineer indicated this lot was completed, to existing lot one and two at the tax map office. No subdivision plan is approved for
this plan. It didn’t have to be. They didn’t ask for that. Councilman Snyder
said and that’s basically what we’re having our solicitor look into. Because the way the MPC reads, any change of lot line, requires a subdivision. Based on the fact, just on the face of it, our assumption wasn’t that you subdivided,
what our assumption was, it required a subdivision in order to be completed. That was the task that was given to our attorney, for him to say what was done here, and didn’t need a subdivision approval to get it through with. We were waiting for information from you to see what was originally purchased and what your current deed says. Solicitor Solymos said I would take a look at it and see what the current deed shows, because you’re going to need subdivision unless the railroad property emerges by operation of law. And then there is no need for subdivision. I’ll check that out. And I wanted to talk to our engineer, on what his thoughts were. Mr. Reichard said the subdivision was the changing of the lines, separating these two lots,
Visitors (cont.) Page 5
the railroad property is an issue. This line here, is being proposed in a different location. Mr. Dallmyer said yes, that line, this is the original lot right here, and this is the original lot here. That line wasn’t there. What I was proposing, was to make the lots equal. And I was proposing that this, come out to hear then. However when I found out it was going to be expensive, time consuming to do it, I decided to sell the lots as they were. I still own this lot, this lot I sold. The land at the top of my attorney had already put on, with bow tie it had belonged to. Councilman Snyder said and that’s why we said we’ll have our attorney have his abstractor look at it and
see whether it is. Solicitor Solymos said I will copy Mr. Dallmyer. Mr. Reichard said or these described as two lots or two tracts? Because one lot can be made of numerous tracts of land. Just because there is a deed written,
and it’s described. Solicitor Solymos said I review these documents, that'll me my answers. Mr. Dallmyer said they were originally, lots with tracts.
Solicitor Solymos said he’s saying they were two separate lots of land. And they were put on one deed and identified as two separate pieces the ground. Mr. Dallmyer said that’s right. And instead of correctly when they put this land, instead of correctly applying it to each lot. They made one swipe across the top. That’s when my attorney went back in checked it, said no,that should be with each lot, did it that way and that was the end of it. I would have gone for subdivision to move this lot line here. But I didn’t feel it was worth it. So I didn’t do it. I sold the lots as they were. For that exception. That land at the top. Councilman Snyder asked if we make those
copies tomorrow how would you like to pick them up ? Because Dana’s off on vacation this week. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll have someone from the office pick it up. Thank you. Mr. Dallmyer said you’re welcome. Have a nice evening. Mr. Reichard said the property is described as numerous tracts, not individual lots. Councilman Snyder said the original deed, was shown to my recollection, there’s one deed with three tracts. And what he ended up selling does not conform to the original dimensions of the description of the tract, of any of the tracks. Solicitor Solymos said of any of the tracts?
Councilman Snyder said correct. Solicitor Solymos asked does that have something to do with the railroad? Councilman Snyder said yes, the railroad was added into it and then he changed a lot line, he also changed the lot line in between the two tracts. Solicitor Solymos said I just heard him say he didn’t. Councilman Snyder said yeah. Solicitor Solymos said he tried to but he didn’t. Councilman Snyder said he’s saying he didn’t but I read over for
Visitors(cont.) Page 6
the description and you can easily see that, tract one had a lot line of 260 so many feet and now if you see what is his new deed says, only so many feet.
It’s different dimensions. That’s easily picked up with an abstractor. Solicitor Solymos said he expressed a need for council to make a decision tonight, but when I talked to him a few weeks ago. So any way. Councilman
Snyder said we’ll go from there.
Councilman Snyder asked any other visitors that would like to be recognized?
Chronister Solicitor Solymos said then a quieter month and last month.
Matter With regard to the Chronister matter, we have filed a ten day
notice, a warning, that if you don’t respond we’re going to take justice in ten days. So I expect we will have the response very
Cottrell Solicitor Solymos said Cottrell I think is on the twenty third.
Matter Councilman Snyder said twenty ninth. Solicitor Solymos
said that’s the first Cottrell matter now there’s new
Cottrell problems brewing. I don’t think you need my
legal opinion on it yet, because we don’t know exactly
what’s brewing, it is brewing, we just ought to keep an eye on
it. I think he’s half of your bill.
Solicitor Solymos said I think that’s about it on my report.
Riedel Councilman Snyder said we do have a couple things under
Letter solicitor. Forgive me if some of this has already given out
at last month’s meeting. We do have a copy on file that was sent out to the Riedel’s concerning the dams. Solicitor
Solymos said I basically talked to the Riedel’s son, he
doesn’t want to get involved with lawyers, he doesn’t feel
that he needs to get involved with lawyers. He’s not
going to give us anything. That’s where he’s at. Councilman
Allar said I talk to the father. I think I convinced him to
seek legal counsel. I told him what we have. Hopefully
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 7
his lawyer will get back to you. Solicitor Solymos said
and I will report back, I haven’t heard from him yet.
Councilman Allar asked if you hear from him could
call me. If I don’t hear from you in two weeks, I’ll
Hertzog Councilman Snyder said I have a letter on file from Mr.
Letter Hertzog from Code Administrators confirming what the
position was on their fees, that they’re not going to be
charging us. That is on file.
Letter Councilman Snyder said the letter did go out to Mr. Wagner
to from Penn Waste. As of today, I have yet to hear any response.
Mr. Wagner Have you heard anything back? Solicitor Solymos said no.
I’m surprised they don’t want to get on board. Councilman
Snyder asked so what are we do here, they’re still
commingling? Solicitor Solymos said I think we need to put
then on notice and refer back to this letter. But I think it should
be put on borough letterhead. Councilman Snyder said just a
short letter saying Pete’s letter of June 3rd has not been
answered. Solicitor Solymos said if you want, I can draft
that letter, tomorrow morning and send a copy. I can
send a copy when someone picks up the information.
Councilman Snyder said that will work. The secretary
said thank you.
Sheriff’s Councilman Snyder asked about that copy of that
Sale sheriff’s sale. Do we need to say anything about that?
Ordinance Councilman Snyder said other things under solicitors,
which we might as well bring up with your ordinance,
on the zoning amendment change. The meeting went very well.
I was very well received. They took all the comments, that I
had, for a well received. When I spoke to Jason, ahead of time,
some of their comments we were going to concede to and say
yes we need to change our ordinance. At that point, that kicked
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Pg. 8
it back for another month anyway. Because they had to do some
redraft, send it back to county planning for it to be ready for adoption
next month. I’d gone over those changes with Jason, understand that
some of York County Planning’s thoughts or sometimes, we’re going to agree to disagree. Randy Beck said that in good conscience, even
though with a sixty foot, right now we’re just talking about the sixty
foot distance in between buildings. He said when he look that up,
it of course referenced, 30ft. from a property line. And I said yes,
our logic is if you require 30ft. from this side property line and
this building is 30ft. from this side property line, that’s sixty foot.
So if you’re having a multifamily cluster, wouldn’t it be the same
as to be logical to require 60 foot. And he said absolutely but he said
just understand we’re going to agree to disagree on this because
you’re going to be outside the norms of York County. So he’s still
going to recommend that that be changed. Understanding that
council does not have to accept the recommendation that we can
still pass that with. Of the comments that we agreed to change
a lot of them were typos, some of them were misconstrued in the
ordinance itself, like the ordinance referenced manufactured
housing, whereas our zoning ordinance references mobile home.
He felt that that should be clarified. Little things like that.
I had gone over with Jason, he had prepared an updated ordnance.
And sent that in to York County Planning and they’re going to be
discussing that tonight. As per a phone call as of yesterday,Randy,
he received the update, he said on the seventeenth, the seventeenth
of June. Which coincides when I got with Jason on the sixteenth
and said hey, times running here we need to get it to them.
Unfortunately, is not enough time to give it to their advisory
board, which goes to them before the planning staff, with the
official recommendation. He was going on vacation from the 23rd
and wasn’t back till Monday. He cursory looked over it. And said
some of the issues that we talked about, were not taking care of.
And I said, really. He had not finished his comments at that time.
We just now that the fax in, as of tonight. Jason did get a copy
of those comments. Now you can bring council up to speed
on what you found. And where to go from here.Mr. Reichard
said well, there were ten comments issued. Eight of the ten
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 9
were basically duplicates of the last set of comments. A lot of them
are the issues that Sam just discussed with you. We’re going to
agree to disagree type of thing. They’re still reciting the same
comment. I don’t know if it’s going to be a matter of just how it’s
presented to the county for approval and they accept that.
Sounds like you may want to sit down with them one on one,
personally have a look through that. Councilman Snyder said
well honestly, it’s like you said we can still go ahead and pass it.
Even with their recommendations. The board itself was very
receptive from me being in there, they understood what our
intent was, what we’re trying to achieve. They do not like that
we’re giving all this authority to the zoning officer. I explained
to them being a small municipality, not having a fulltime staff,
we want the zoning officer involved because he has our full time
employee. He’s gonna work hand in hand with Jason. They
understood what we’re trying to achieve so it’s one of those things
that under his stature of the planning commissioner or planning
council adviser that he’s still going to put those comments in.
I said OK as long we’re aware of them. Mr. Reichard said
our two comments that do affect it, one of them is the table
that’s in the ordnance unfortunately when we were sending this out
we had an electronical problem with the file, reproduced the table
on the last minute. It was all on us, it just didn’t come out in its
original fashion so unfortunately the copy that the county had to
review was not what we intended them to review. There was
a section, reviewing industrial uses, associated buffers that was
excluded. It was our mistake so the situation is the ordnance that was
before you, has the incorrect table in it. Or we get to the point where
we adopt that ordinance and come back and amend that same
ordinance to replace the table. Honestly any of the other comments
that the county feels that they need to address, you have to adhere
to so. Councilman Snyder said my thinking was, this is just my
thought, Pete you can chime in to. We table the ordnance again
for another month. It has not been advertised for next month’s
adoption so there’s no advertising fees there. Already spoke to
Jason on the matter. Why wasn’t it taking care of, you messed
up. The cost to the borough? We already agreed that there would be
no cost to the borough, incurred to the borough for doing it
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 10
again and sending it back up to them. So it’s a matter of
just waiting another month. That’s basically what it amounts to.
No extra cost to do that. I mean we’re still gonna have to advertise
then for the September meeting. Legally wise, if someone would
come in with a plan. Solicitor Solymos said I would still
recommend that you go with the duly advertised plan. The
secretary said that has gone to the zoning officer and he
has a copy.Councilman Snyder asked so we still have a safety net
so that if anyone else comes in. Solicitor Solymos said
the sooner we move the better we are because we will get
to the point where they will say you just can’t sit it and
hang it out there. There are cases to that affect. We aren’t
at that six month timeframe. Councilman Snyder said
so Sandy can have a copy in next month’s packet, as
far as what the actual comments are because I know Jason
didn’t go over each one. Basically it’s like he said we’re just going to
agree to disagree. Such as giving that power to. Councilman
Noll asked of those eight comments, that we agree to disagree are
are they going to deny the ordinance as the recommending body
or are they going to recommend to adopt this. Councilman
Snyder said at tonight’s meeting, to recommend that we deny it.
Councilman Noll said okay. Councilman Snyder said at the
last times meeting believe it or not, I got a kudos from Attorney
Rehmeyer. He said it was the first time he’s ever seen the
board issue a determination like they did. Which was they
did not make a motion to deny, they didn’t make a motion
to accept. They made a motion to accept the comments.
Because they didn’t want to go on record as going against
our wishes and what we’re trying to accomplish here.
By them even recommending this thing being denied tonight.
It’s no big deal. Because the board itself that actually makes
the recommendations knows what we’re trying to achieve.
Councilman Noll said so once we correct those things, and
it goes back up, what will they possibly do next, those other
few comments are taking care of. Mr. Reichard said I think we
should be all right because the planning commission is a
recommending body and they don’t basically agree with
100% with this ordinance. So, those issues, they didn’t
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11
agree 100%, it’s just a matter of opinion. The two comments
that are throwing us out are just do to an error. It needs to be
corrected. Councilman Snyder said now what the board will do.
I mean we can probably send a letter or ask Randy when
you talk to him. Councilman Noll said but next month it’ll
probably be the same. Solicitor Solymos said you are going to
get the same thing next month as to the eight things, that
we want, that aren’t in error in our mind, or are inappropriate in their
mind. Councilman Snyder said they may still recommend to deny
based on those other comments. Councilman Noll said right, they
are as we all know, a recommending body. I don’t say I agree
with every last letter they have but it’ll probably be denied. Solicitor
Solymos said exactly. Obviously under the MPC you have fulfilled
your responsibilities, when you have accepted and reviewed their
comments. At which point you make a decision as how you want to
amend the ordinance. And it’s been done that way under the idea
that the planning commission because they have engineers, and
expert staff to give you some good guidance on technical issues.
But the bottom line is you still live here.Councilman Noll said
right, zoning is our right. Councilman Snyder said the only thing
that we’re probably going to have to worry about Pete, and that’s
clarification on your part. Our next meeting will be on August
Fifth, which is their next meeting. Which then they’ll get the
comments and make another recommendation letter. Our
following meeting in September will be the second and
Randy Beck, he’s not a lawyer,he can’t give legal advise,
but he said he was under the impression that we have to wait
30 days till after we receive the comments before we can adopt it.
I don’t know if that is an issue or not. Solicitor Solymos said
I don’t think that’s correct but anyway, we received comments
already. Councilman Snyder said so that’s a technicality.
Solicitor Solymos said that’s a technicality, but I’m not concerned
about because York County Planning is not going to shoot
us down on the ordnance, no one else is going to be involved.
Councilman Snyder said okay, I think that’s all I had for
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
YT Solicitor Solymos said York Township has redone its map.
Map I hope you’ve had time to look over it. Jason has determined
that they’re not taking any more of the borough. Or putting
signs in what have you. Knowing the history of this I think the
borough should say, nice map, its good fellows. That will be up to you
folks to consider.
Res. Solicitor Solymos said the borough’s association has sent you
2008- a resolution for you to consider. It would ask the legislature to
06 remedy the prevailing wage laws. This small municipality,
you’ve got to pay the prevailing wage for a lot of the work that you
have to do and that’s costing you a fortune at a time when
the economy is just gone south on us. I’d like you to read that
resolution, possibly tonight amongst yourselves. As far as
the format of the resolution I have no problem with it. You’re
going to have to decide the logic of that and how the prevailing
wage laws affect this municipality. Councilman Myers
asked what are they looking to change the amount of $25,000.00?
You know we tried that about two years ago and got shot down.
Solicitor Solymos said they mention the case in their cover
letter. They want you to pass this resolution, they going to
submit it as part of the borough’s council and they’re going to get
their lobbyist to go up there and hope that someone passes on it.
That’ll hold up. Councilman Myers said I’m going to call
someone tomorrow and wonder that that is. Solicitor Solymos
said that’s all I had folks. Councilman Snyder asked any
discussion on that? Technically we can pass that tonight.
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to resolve resolution
2008-06, the resolution that states that $25,000.00 hasn’t
kept pace with inflation and are asking that it be raised.
They’re not recommending any amount if they consider
raising. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.
YT Councilman Snyder said I looked at it, and they’re not
Map even putting zoning on or nothing. Mr. Reichard said
I’m sure they’d get you another copy if you asked for
it. Councilman Allar said they didn’t break it down
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
as to. Mr. Reichard said this isn’t an official map. An
official map. It say that they’re in the process of
developing an official map. So this letter is being
presented to you as notice for you to offer comments,
recommendations in a 45 day review period. So they’re
representing this map, questions and an ordinance that
you can review and asking questions about input.
Mr. Reichard said an official map, my limited knowledge
of it, it’s used to establish future roadway systems,
designate recreation areas, establish trail systems. The
township adopts an ordinance, have a map in place,
that says this is our path to the future in terms of
those areas. Councilman Manns said this part of
a comp plan where they list what their future
goals are. Councilman Allar said I’m surprised.
Mr. Reichard said one of the reasons that they
do that, if a development does come in, say
there’s a 100 acre tract in the township that
comes in and this official map shows there’s
an arterial road going through there, that gives them
leverage to try to work that developer to see that, that
road is constructed in accordance with this overall
plan. Councilman Snyder said it shows Yoe Drive in
York Township. If we want to make an issue. Mr.
Reichard said yeah. So if they were showing a
four lane highway coming in the middle of Yoe, I think
you should be concerned but at this point they’re not.
Councilman Snyder said they are showing George Street,
and Springwoods Road as a collector’s street. Mr. Reichard said
so if you are interested, you have 45 days to get a hold of the
township and I’m sure that there’s going to be some kind of
meeting scheduled to talk about it. You can learn about the
Orchard Mr. Reichard said following up from last month or actually
Vista two, the Orchard Vista site, we last month were presented a
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 14
plan via the Conservation District. I think a copy of that was
left here at the borough. The question was asked what is
permitted with a township. The result that I got when I asked
about that was nothing is permitted. They initially and currently
are proceeding without any type of permit. The township
stepped in and basically found that what they’re doing doesn’t
require a permit. They have no requirements for or issuance
of a building permit or grading permit to move earth. So.
That’s what Dennis Henry was telling us. They have a plan
that’s in place, there isn’t a specific permit other than they
did submit the same plan that was submitted to the
Conservation District. And all that is for storage yard, it shows
of gravel parking lot and that’s to be used for storage and
that’s it. So originally they were trying to work on the original
plan that was submitted to Yoe as part of their zoning hearing.
And obviously that was amended, they just reduced it out to
show, a stock yard. That’s as much detail as I could get.
Councilman Allar asked you talk to Dennis Henry and not
the zoning officer? Mr. Reichard said we started with the
zoning officer being that Dennis Henry was on call. That’s what they stated the little plan they do have in place is accurate.
They have Conservation District approval for this. Whatever
the plan is, for a stone lot to meet their requirements. No permit at all, for construction or anything beyond. Councilman
Noll said the township will make you get a permit to change
your front door, I’m very honest about that. Mr. Reichard
said that’s what Dennis said, they’re working on the earth
moving permit right now. It’s a novelty to have that plan
submitted and apparently approved, but not permit for
the development process. That’s the details of is able to get.
Councilman Allar said you said you were going to check back
with the Conservation District, about the size of that
swale? Mr. Reichard said we’re working with Dan Donahue
and talk to him twice about it and he apparently isn’t over
concerned about it, what’s out there. I think he’s looking
at it as a post construction condition now. Councilman
Allar said that swale isn’t right. Mr. Reichard said I know
we went to him twice. We really didn’t get any response
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 15
that he was really gonna go out and look at it at the
time. Councilman Allar asked do we know the design
depth? Mr. Reichard said we can get that from the plans.
Councilman Allar said at least get that. Mr. Reichard
said when Aaron Hoover from our office went out to
look, the grass was three and half foot tall. He really
couldn’t tell where it was, that partly a sign, its
partly not built. If it was showing a foot to a foot and
a half deep, we should have been able to tell going
out through there. Maybe Dana can go up there and
do some research up there. Councilman Allar said
I walked around there, and it isn’t cut in. Mr. Reichard
said it should be cut in. And that would be a post
construction storm water issue that the township
should be dealing with. They were made aware of it.
They didn’t look at it or make a comment of it
either. Maybe if you want we could write a letter
requesting that, that inspection be completed by the
township so that they were pretty much installed
accurately. Much more than that, I ‘m not sure.
Councilman Snyder said its best that we continue with
the Conservation District. Mr. Reichard said we
couldn’t see it when we were out, maybe they took
care of it. We really couldn’t see what was going on.
105 E. Mr. Reichard said we already took action on the 105
Penna. E. Penna. Avenue project plan. So that’s off the books
Avenue for the time being.
Yoe Mr. Reichard said on construction projects. The Yoe Drive
Drive paving, last month, we deferred any action until this meeting.
Paving As you recall, the request for reimbursement was more or less
from the township before you to cover the cost of the first
phase of paving on Yoe Drive. The cost breakdown was in the
amount of $8627.50 for Yoe Borough’s share of the work.
With the understanding there would be a second phase, of
a wearing course at a future date. So we still, are waiting for
a decision on that to talk to the township about that, inform
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 16
them of your decision. They are expecting some kind of
notice from the borough. Councilman Snyder said did
Dana provide any information in his report. The secretary
said yes its in there. Mr. Reichard said I didn’t go into
any detail. I was working with a gentleman named Tim.
Tim Poff. Mr. Reichard said Scott Depoe was on vacation,
so I talked to Tim until the borough know what it actually
wanted to do. I held off on that. Councilman Snyder said
based on Dana’s maintenance report, he talked to Jerry
Wagner of Municipal Services at PENN DOT and we
can not use liquid fuels money for the work on Yoe Drive
or Orchard Street without a survey of the boundary line and
documentation of adoption of the portions. So that’s the
answer with liquid fuels. I think when this issue first came up
Jason had provided us some preliminary figures to get a
survey done. Which I think was about $6500.00. At that
point you’re almost at what they’re asking for, and all we’re
getting is a survey, and we still have to adopt it. It’s just
my personal opinion, at this point, if we can’t use liquid
fuels, had it been a regular adopted road as it should’ve been
then the borough would be maintaining it just like any other
alley in here. I think there’s probably a duty to maintain it,
on our behalf. I think if we offer them, $2000.00 a year until
its paid off, because it wasn’t in our budget. When I spoke
to Scott Depoe, I told him that it was not in our budget.
I said we were looking at other possibilities, like with
liquid fuels and stuff. He said no problem I’ll run that
by Elizabeth. We worked out deals like that before. Such
as with dams, mowing and so. You pay your share and
reimburse at the end of the year. That’s the last I heard.
Elizabeth either never got back to him, or he didn’t get
back to me. That’s the last I heard that he was going to
run that past Elizabeth. So I guess if they’re waiting for
us to say this is what we can do. I really think they want
to see that we make some kind of contribution. They
have already budgeted to pave the entire amount. I know
Jason said we can go back on the offer for, I guess the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 17
overlay portion of it. Mr. Reichard said 7ft. of it.
Councilman Snyder said so, it’s just a matter of making
a goodwill token, say we’ll pay you $2000.00 for the
next four years. Councilman Allar asked could we
transfer liquid fuels monies to the township. In the
case of the county, they transferred to us. Councilman
Snyder said I don’t know if Dana even asked that
question. Councilman Myers said when the county
does, it gets that money to do that. Mr. Reichard said
it still is liquid fuels money. Councilman Myers said
right. Councilman Snyder said the road has been
adopted by the township. They’ve adopted the entire
roadway or cartway, thirty five or forty feet. But they
do not get liquid fuels monies for it because of the
boundary dispute. Because they knew that PENN DOT
knew that the boundary lines kind of ran down the
center of the road so nobody is collecting liquid fuels
monies for it. Now what we could do, is find out if
we could transfer liquid fuels monies that they could
use on another portion of Yoe Drive. And they pay
that portion out of their general fund because evidently
we can’t use liquid fuels monies on it. Well they did
adopt it though, so they should be able to use liquid
fuels. Councilman Allar said I would prefer that we
start out small, small amount of money and some kind
of in kind services. And then work up. We could always
start at a $1000.00 year and break it up into years. Maybe
go $4000.00 and he plow further down. Dana is on the
road he goes down another quarter mile. Councilman
Snyder said well there he plows it anyways. Councilman
Allar said right. Councilman Snyder said I don’t know
where he turns around at. Councilman Allar said that
would be a lot cheaper for us. Councilman Snyder said
we didn’t offer them anything yet. Councilman Allar
said I thought you said you already mentioned about
$2000.00 a year. Councilman Snyder said no, I mentioned
that here. I said I would mention to council, about paying
it off in installments. The secretary said and that’s what
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
Scott Depoe was going to ask Elizabeth, if she would
agree to something like that but you did not offer an
amount. Councilman Snyder said I did not offer an
amount. The secretary said correct. Councilman
Allar said I would go for liquid fuels, because we have
a lot of it, if we don’t then maybe we can go for a
smaller dollar amount. Its coming out of our budget and
maybe some in kind services. I think the key is they
want to see what we are going to do. The $8000.00 is
a large amount. Mr. Reichard said there’s something
I’m not sure about is I don’t why the borough boundary
is important in this case. I think the key issue is having
it adopted. There’s a possibility we could have a legal
agreement between Yoe and York Township, that
says center line over, is the division between the two
municipalities and Yoe Borough drops their side and York
Township drops to that, and we’d have the building from
liquid fuels. It would be like a waiver of rights basically
that the agreement would waived the rights to the portion
beyond the center line and describe that. A survey,
this would be good enough for both municipalities to agree,
you would describe it, you could do a limited survey,
of just the piece that you feel we have the right to and leave
it at that. And say anything outside of this described piece
of land we agree. Councilman Snyder said I actually don’t,
this is my opinion, we’re looking at engineering fees for that.
We’re looking at legal fees for that. Once this thing is paved,
they’re not gonna touch that for another thirty years unless
they get some really heavy traffic back there. It’s gonna happen.
Once this upgrade is done, it’s gonna be done. So, now’s the
cost, why incur extra engineering and legal fees when the cost
has already occurred. Councilman Manns say it will be three
years, four years, for the paving cost. Councilman Snyder
whatever I do not offer them anything. I just said we would
work out some kind of a deal cause I told them, we don’t
have money budgeted for it. Councilman Allar said in kind
services and $1500.00 a year for two years. We can always
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
go low. Councilman Snyder said you tell me the what you want
to offer them. We’ll go back with Jason, the last two phone
calls were through you. Councilman Allar said the first thing
is to try to transfer the liquid fuels and then I wouldn’t offer
them any more than $4000.00. Mr. Reichard said or you
just could give the street back to York Township and then
you wouldn’t have to contribute at all. Councilman Snyder
said I think that was the issue that Ron tried to work out
two years ago. Wasn’t it Ronnie? Wasn’t it two years ago
you tried to work out that deal with York Township that
they would maintain and take care of that? Councilman
Crull said yeah. Councilman Snyder said the problem with it
just like with Jason had said, we need an agreement set in
place, for them to collect liquid fuels on it. That agreement
never took place. Now where behind the eight ball because
we now have the six residents up there that say they need
park along the street and we know the minute we turn that
over to the control of York Township, they’ll make it no
parking. Had this been in place two years ago, we could have
looked at the residents and said bitch to York Township.
Now we’re the ones selling them up the creek. Councilman
Crull said they said they would take care of it, when the
curbs would go the whole way out to Chapel Church Road,
and the road was going to be widened the whole way out.
Councilman Allar said we do have residents out there.
Councilman Snyder asked do you want Jason to offer that
now or before he finds out about the liquid fuels question.
Mr. Reichard said do you want Dana go call him. Councilman
Snyder said he is on vacation. The secretary said July 8th.
Councilman Snyder said he contacted Jerry Wagner.
Councilman Crull asked this tonnage on this black top,
who figured that? Mr. Reichard said York Township.
Councilman Crull said the reason I asked that 350
tons, that’s, they only haul 20 ton on a load, the state,
and that’s seventeen loads and we used 24 up here to
do three streets. Something is wrong there. Mr. Reichard
said take a look at the street. I thought the same thing then
I went out there and situation that we have, the road surface
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
here, and the curbs are here. Councilman Crull said
that’s ‘cause they put them there. Mr. Reichard said
well the street when you’re heading now towards Chapel
Church Road, that road was so low, on that left side, so
what they did is they brought the curb line out so that
the new street would have the same slope on both sides.
The crown with a 2% cross way in doing so, we’re going
to be putting two different lifts in there probably three up to
4in. pavement on a long stretch of that. Councilman Crull
said the drains they have are only about 4 inches higher
than the road. Mr. Reichard said that’s 4in. and then in the
middle, some of the places or going to be more than that so.
I thought the same thing, I ran the numbers and I call them
on it. I came out here before the last meeting and looked
at it and I think it’ll take it. Now the deal is it could be less.
Hopefully it isn’t, they estimated high and we can use less
material. That would be a discount to the borough but our
plan is for at least that much. If they don’t then. Councilman
Snyder said understand that we’re offering them $4,000.00
and in kind services for this. We aren’t going to get break
if it comes in less. We get the break if we were actually
paying the bill. Councilman Noll said you said there was
a developer involved in, there are probably some bonds
that are still held, are there? Mr. Reichard said he’s
responsible, he did his initial widening, he’s only
responsible for the wearing course. This scratch material
they’re putting on now. Kind of extra. I think he does
have a bond with the township actually for some more.
We have it on record somewhere, I can’t remember.
Mr. Reichard said it is only for wearing. I talked to him
and he said, just let me know when. We will pay our
share of the final area. Councilman Snyder said with the
time constraints I think we’ll just have Jason proceed
with this and get back to them as soon as possible. The
secretary said Jerry Wagner is with District 8-0. Councilman
Snyder said now if Jason finds out that you can transfer
liquid fuels then offer them now they’re asking for?
Councilman Snyder said okay, I just wanted clarification
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 21
for you. The secretary asked, Jason whatever you do make
sure they respond to you in writing please. Because when
I get audited I don’t want any questions. Mr. Reichard said
so we’re going to offer the full amount? Councilman
Snyder said the full amount if we can transfer liquid fuels
to the township. Mr. Reichard asked $4000.00 and in kind
services? Councilman Allar said $4000.00 of our money
and in kind services. Councilman Snyder said so $4000.00
and in kind services. Councilman Allar said and the $4000.00
I would still break that up over two or three years. Councilman
Snyder said I would say two years because I think we do have
$1800.00. The secretary said $1500.00. Councilman Snyder
said $1500.00 in highway. We want to make it as simple
as possible for us because let’s face it next year they’re
planning on putting on the overlay and we’re gonna be.
That way we can pay off this year plus next year, were paid
up, when they do paving next year, we’re only another two
years behind. Councilman Allar said and to send something
to catch the eye of the commissioners, once the deal is
set, it may help. Councilman Snyder said just to say to
finalize our conversation in writing. Mr. Reichard asked
to the township? Councilman Snyder said they may not know
any of this is going on. Councilman Allar said that’s what
I’m saying. Mr. Reichard said I think that letter should come
from the borough. Councilman Allar said I think it should
too. Mr. Reichard said I’ll make the initial contact. Councilman
Allar said if it comes from Sam as President of Council to the
President of the York Township Commissioners. Mr. Reichard
said okay. Councilman Snyder said so let the record reflect
that there is a consensus of council to have Jason proceed
CDBG Mr. Reichard said the last item is for the CDBG grant
App. application/DCNR Keystone grant, we currently have
DCNR for miscellaneous park improvements at the borough
Grant park. We did submit a CDBG grant application to the
county for approval. I have a copy here for the borough.
I gave a copy to Tom to, if anyone else needs one just
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
let me know. We also put together a concept plan which
I think I would like to review with you guys also, to get
some input on it. Going through the application last
month, I think if you look at the old report I brought up
some issues that are budget kind of is growing on us,
estimate growing on us for some of the work. And more
or less left it, that we can sit down and weed out a couple
things to knock the price down and try to make it a little
more reasonable to take to the planning commission.
Which we did. Now since then I was talking to Sam,
this week a little bit about it and when to some of the details.
And I think one of the issues we’ll probably discuss is,
what we actually knocked out. One item is the storm water
improvements where the park area is taking water now,
planning just a collection system. You had some concerns
about excluding that. To discuss that here to make sure
everyone is aware that was. Councilman Snyder said
I had, well of course I wasn’t at the last month’s meeting.
So I didn’t know what was discussed. So with the reading
through the minutes, I came up that saw that basically I
was under the impression that the grant that was going to
be applied for was as discussed through council and was
presented through the engineer’s report and I know there
was left with Tom had to get back to Jason that the
deadline for the submission was going to be the sixth.
And all of sudden I got concerned when I saw the storm
water management plan was basically eradicated from
the grant because that was something that we just had
been talking about for two months with the problems we
have been having with Philadelphia Street,Park Alley,
the flooding at the park, what’s coming down from
York Township. It was, Jason I don’t know if you really
want to do that. That was never discussed at council. At
that point Jason said well, sorry, the grant is already
submitted. So the next thing I did was called up Joiann
Galiano, and said look, I don’t know if council realizes
that this was eradicated without it being discussed, it
is an important part of the project and we do have these
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
flooding issues. What are the chances of amending the
grant application? And she started to discuss things with
me on the application, she said absolutely if you want
to amend your application, now would be the time to
do it. We are currently in the process of reviewing the
applications and we’ll be making a determination by
August and once that’s set, its set. I said well wait a
minute now, we’ve been under the impression that
if we go like something like the skate park, that we put
money in for, but then we decide we don’t want it,
we can amend that to change it to something else that
we would want? Cause I said because we were still
thinking about going out and talking to constituents and
getting their ideas because there has been some discussion
from what I could tell from the consensus of council that
we didn’t want a skate park. She said well, once the
application is submitted, she said we looked at it as
council had approved this project. We would need
a resolution from council telling us that we want to
amend the application, we can amend it. But if you’re
thinking about taking the skate park, you need to put
that stuff in the amendment. Because she said, let me
tell you how this is going to work, we have a $100,000.00
figure that we look at that we try to fund as many projects
as what we can for the 3 million dollars over the next
three years. She said if a project comes in under $100,000.00
they look at it and they go from there. If a project comes in
over $100,000.00 she said then what we’ll do we’ll look at
each individual item within that project to see what best
qualifies for CDBG. If you are thinking about taking out
the skate park and say updating our equipment, you should
do that now. Because she said I’ll tell you, you get funded
for swings and sliding boards quicker than you would for
a skate park. She said you’ll get funded for your storm
water management before you will get funded for a skate
park. Because she said the way we look at it is the monies
from CDBG, I know you have a DCNR grant out there,
we don’t care, we’re looking at this project as a stand alone
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
project and the items that you actually come up with
if they exceed the $100,000.00 then we’re going to pick
and choose which ones out of the project that we’ll
fund based on CDBG criteria. The criteria of course is
low to moderate income housing, she said like your
ADA compliant with the bathrooms, that is an automatic
low to moderate income. She said when you get something
she said like the swing sets, sliding board, they look at it.
I said that’s currently be used by over 100 kids a day. She
said we don’t want to know that. When we look at a park,
she said we’re talking swing sets and sliding boards. She
said we look at that park as being used for the local area
only. York Township and North Hopewell, they have their
own swing sets and sliding boards. If you put in a grant for
swing sets and sliding boards, that’s going to be geared
towards Yoe Borough. She said and Yoe Borough is
automatic low to moderate income. She said when you put
in a skate park, she said you lose that capability. She said
now you’ve lost the ability to show what the liability is for
low to moderate income. Because she said you’re going to
tailor that for people outside the area. She said will look
at that the same way we look at baseball fields. She said
if there’s a small back yard baseball field in a community,
they’ll probably fund upgrades to that. She said the larger
scale baseball field that you get like Dallastown Cougars
are using like that, you lose your capability that show that
they utilize strictly for low to moderate income. So she said
if you have changes that you want to put in, now would be
the time to do it. So after that discussion I thought, okay,
I know council didn’t know about losing the storm water
thing. If we have to try to get this to $100,000.00 so we
didn’t lose it. I just ran some figures here that I wanted
to bring up to council to think about. Taking last months,
engineering report of $223,300.00. Scratch out the
skate board park, we’re now down to $123,300.00 for
projects that were already identified on our list. Add
in equipment upgrade, that we are know are coming.
Because Dana has said, for the last month and half,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
we’ve got fifty year old equipment up there, that we
know needs replaced. And now we have 100 kids
a day up there, we’re looking at 50 year old sliding
boards, 50 year old swings. I remember playing on that
sliding board and merry go round myself. Its getting
old. So anyways, I’m throwing this out as a ball park
figure, and Dana showed me what he was looking at
for a swing set replacement. You’re looking at any
where from $2000.00 to $4000.00 for one swing set,
of course then you have site preparation because you
have to the mulching, it has to be so far out. So
easily $40,000.00 on equipment upgrade. Now we’re
up to $163,300.00. Add $15,000.00 for the pavilion,
which was given as a figure of $18,000.00. We’ve
been told by Dana and by Gail, we need to upgrade,
the flooring, the equipment as far as the stoves, the
refrigerators, the cupboards. We could easily spend
$15,000.00 in that kitchen alone to upgrade that.
Now we’re at $178,300.00 project. Request $100,000.00
from CDBG, which now we’re at their funding level.
And all those upgrades, she would consider low to
moderate income because we’re putting back in the
storm water improvement. She said is a direct benefit
to low to moderate income. So we only request only
$100,000.00 from CDBG so we’re not kicking out
anything there, leaves us with a $78,300.00 balance.
We have a DCNR grant of $70,000.00. That leaves
use a balance of $8300.00. That’s all we’re doing just
upgrading the existing equipment and the kitchen along
with everything else we talked about. Only leaves us
with a $8300.00 balance and I think Jason or Tom was
going to bring up a little later. We did get word from
Mike Waugh that we got a $25,000.00 grant from his
office, so if you add that into it that gives us, $16,700.00
we have to play with for overages, extra engineering
costs, if we run into rock up there like we did when
we got the Keystone grant. All of a sudden $15,000.00
play equipment turned into 22. It gives us that $16700.00
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
buffer. But she’s saying if you want that kind of stuff in,
it has to be in this month. Councilman Myers said last night
when we were sitting in there at the game, Tom , George
and I, I did some homework today. I talked to the girl
we deal with, with the CDBG grant. I told her what we
were doing and stuff like that. And she, one thing out
of her mouth was, it depends on how your borough is
rated. I said well I know we’re low, I don’t know what
we’re out in that anymore, I can’t remember. I told her
what our plans were, our thought process was. She said
well, if we thought it was something good, York County
Parks would have that. When we get CDBG grants, we look
at all that, that kind of works out. That’s why lots of times,
when we go after a grant, we go after this kind of stuff. Because
that’s usually she ranks it. Its kind of funny that you were
saying that because I did some checking today. And.
Councilman Snyder said basically what it boiled down to
was, based on the discussion here at the council table,
if we weren’t putting in for a skate board park, then this
is what we need to go for because there are more chances
to get funded. And just using that little outline there, we
can maximize both the CDBG, the DCNR and Mike
Waugh’s grant. Councilman Myers said one thing, that
she said something, hence how you word it sometimes,
then maybe you’ll approve something that is not so
desirable for the grant. If you combine it somehow.
So what I did, this company also, Playworld System,
they do the skate board park, they have a kit which
that you can buy make a system. So. That’s just the
leg work that I did. Mr. Reichard said so you are
thinking of replacing the existing with another.
The facility that’s out there now, that’s for younger
kids? Councilman Myers said yes. What you have
up there doesn’t meet criteria for, what that, there’s
a, we have to have a ranger that’s certified to check
that equipment, we don’t meet that standard, which
that can be a liability problem. Its actually kind of
funny, because, maybe because we’re such a small
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
borough, when I worked with Springettsbury, one of us
would take around our insurance company and ask them
first place we would know, all the parks. They’d say,
hey that swing set is getting a little old. Because they
are looking at the safety regulations because they are
going to be coming to bat for you. I guess since we’re
so small that doesn’t happen here. Councilman Snyder
said they have in the past. I remember getting gigged on
having nuts or bolts, exposed. The secretary said I think
they don’t do it yearly, maybe every three years.
Councilman Myers said another thing, these are on
a state contract. We can buy on a state contract. There’s
no bidding, you can buy the kits right off the state
contract. The second thing, there’s probably a guy here
that knows how to put them together. They are quite
the project to put together. Councilman Snyder said
the only problem with that is, I agree that’s a good
idea, cause you did with the current system that you have up
there. You have that sixteen thousand dollars for overage,
cause when we tried to put that one in we hit all kinds of
rocks. And then of course, we had to get an engineer out,
to preplan where the holes were to be dug, then when we
hit a rock then we had to move the whole system over, then
we got to an area where it wasn’t level, then you had to
do site leveling. Easily just having $16,000.00 as left
over money. Councilman Myers said there’s probably
a way you can get that built and in that time period.
Most of the time we do our own, I know Dana even
said that one thing that he is going to be requesting from
council is park benches. Cause he said with having that
play area over there, for the younger kids. He has to on
a routine basis has to move the picnic tables back over
because the people have no place to sit to watch their
kids. Let’s face it that is designed for the younger kids.
It makes sense. I priced the park benches and there like
$600.00 each. Councilman Myers said we have the
aluminum ones, we actually made our own because
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
it was using our money. What we could do is ,
by advertising a little bit, have someone to make
them and have someone have a memorial bench
for $500.00. Councilman Noll asked do you
concrete those in? Councilman Myers said yes.
There aluminum frames and we use wood, its
made for two legs, but we put three legs in it.
It works good. Councilman Noll said I’ve seen
that. I think the biggest thing is to see how we
can get the most money. And then to shop the
heck out of this thing which I think is possible.
With the people that you know and I know,
contractors and suppliers and all sort of stuff,
put it out for general bid. I think we can do a lot.
But we first have to figure out how to get the money.
Councilman Snyder said and that’s why what I
proposed there, based on the conversation I had
with her, she said we would maximize, if you’re not
putting in a skate park put in what you originally
presented to us and modifying it to include equipment
upgrade would maximize that because is geared towards
low to moderate income. Councilman Noll asked when
we say equipment do we have to specify what kind of
equipment? Councilman Snyder said no. Councilman
Myers said you can do what you want, on state contract.
Councilman Noll said, say supposing we get fifty
people at that the next council meeting that say they
want a skate park, we can do equipment upgrades that
equipment could be a skate park. Councilman Snyder
said it could be. Councilman Allar said a couple things,
what we would put in before did have a skate park in it.
I know we had it in. The reason, the storm water wasn’t
in, I am referring to resolution 2008-03. The park
improvements will include, miscellaneous building
repairs, bathroom and pavilion ADA upgrades, replacing
all old wiring within buildings, ADA accessible trails to
bathroom and pavilion, parking lot improvements and
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
establish a skateboard park area. That’s it. The borough
engineer prepare a CDBG block grant for the following.
Councilman Snyder said I signed that, after the meeting,
I wasn’t even at that meeting. Mr. Reichard said I’ll
take responsibility for that, we intended for that to
include the storm water. The application that was
prepared had storm water, the estimate that we gave
you last month, we were planning on putting the storm
water in. I just didn’t put it on that paragraph. Really
the resolution, only had to say, we authorize the borough
engineer to submit an application so we sometimes we
write additional detail, in this case we didn’t include all
the detail. Councilman Allar said this is what I had. You
directed me to get together with Davidson, therefore it
wasn’t on there so I didn’t bring it up. There’s again,
I’m not sure why we are concerned about the storm
water, there are least three or four other permits within
the township. This is going to be the first and only chance
for the county or state, we’re going to put a big chuck of
it to storm water control. I know Mr. Strobeck is talking
to them about expanding that little holding pond down
by the road. When were having that problem with Park
Alley, Pete wrote that memo. Downstream land owner.
Except when you change where the water is flowing, its
now flowing over Rexroth’s property, its flowing a lot
more towards the north or something, so that’s one.
There is actually legal basis to sue him, it’s a cause and
affect. This happened after he did what he did up there.
The biggest problem is, the biggest reason not to do it,
is he is going to do it. He’s going to something up there.
He’s not going to be paying between taxes and not to
mention he’s out about 20 grand for engineering for
the rezoning. If you remember the plan he recontoured
that whole mound so it didn’t come down through Yoe.
So we spending money on someone else’s storm water
and they will fix it anyway. It seems we could use that money
for other things. When people look at a town there is a lot
of criteria, one of them is taxes. And we get an F on that.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
We are sixth out of 72 municipalities. We’re getting close
to York City in total taxes, and its not because of
Dallastown. So taxes are one issue, recreation is another.
When you are dealing with recreation, everyone’s
got swings, you have to make it safe. I think there’s enough
money in there to do all that. I’m tying to put reason to
this thing, everyone is saying we don’t want skate boards,
and we’re all smart people, we have responsible jobs. At
least three people came out, no skate boards, I’ll never vote
for it. If we have a vision for the town, I’ve been looking
for the article Sam, a couple years back, when we talked
about that grant and how the skate board park would
benefit Yoe Borough, remember that. It was going to
be part of the revitalization of Yoe Borough and change
the borough, turn the borough around. Councilman Snyder
said I do recall Tom, the reason I said that is because council
said, even from the beginning council couldn’t agree
on the skate park and originally it was, lets put in for it,
because we don’t know what monies we’re going to get,
and get the conversation moving so we can get on with
life and just get the project going. Because at that point
we didn’t have any contract. I was quite adamant right
at council, right from day one, I personally don’t like
the skate park idea. But because council decided, let’s
keep it in because maybe it’ll bring in more money.
Because we can always take it out but don’t have to
build it but if we don’t put in for it, we don’t get the
money. So its like, using that logic, let’s keep it in
and let’s try to get all the money we can. So when I go
to the paper, I have to sell what council’s decision is,
I’m not going to sit there and just give my opinion, I do
that at the council table. Councilman Allar said but for
whatever reason, you were right, you were keying on
vision. One way to turn this town around, except for
you perhaps, I don’t think any one realizes what a
financial jeopardy we’re in. We’re not just treading
water. We’re sinking. Two tax increases in three years,
we’re sinking. There are sheriff sales, property values will
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
go down, because there going to have to be balanced
with the increase with taxes. So that means when the
property values are down, we are going to less monies
coming in. Does anyone here, our police services are not
going to go up next year? Does any one think our trash
collection isn’t going to go up? I’m working with three
other municipalities, and we will try to get one contract,
its still going to go up. So we either tax, that’s clearly
saying we can’t keep doing that and the only other
headline we’re going to have is that we’re number two
next to York City. We try to get more money into Yoe
Borough. The skate park we can make money on. It can
bring tens of thousands into Yoe Borough with the skate
park project. If you don’t like I don’t see anyone else
bringing anything onto the table. All we do is keep
spending and each year, maybe not next year but the
year after, a tax increase. There’s a lot of advantages,
but no one wants to listen to the benefits of one of these.
I’ve talked to many, many other communities about it,
that have benefited their community. Everyone just jumps
to the conclusion that there’s going to be crime, there’s going
to be increase in insurance. Councilman Noll said I think
my whole opinion of the whole thing is if we had a solid
foundation up there for a park, this is kind of a roof we put
on top to make it look really good. Right now we don’t have
alls, we barely have a foundation, there’s a lot of structural
problems to fix up there. We’re here and a skate park is up
here, and we have to get the park up to this level. I’m not
saying that ultimately a skate park something like that, may
not be beneficial, we’re talking down the road. We’ll be
bringing the park up to that level,and solve some fundamental
problems up there. Councilman Allar said there won’t be a
second chance, we will exhaust the county, exhaust the state,
and won’t have any of it. Councilman Crull asked does anyone
know where there is a skate board park right now that was
there four years ago and its still there now? Councilman Manns
said I can get you that information. Councilman Allar said
the one in Litiz, was actually started by two police officers.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 32
Some people think its going to bring crime in. Two police
officers started it. There’s nothing in York County, this would
be the first one in York County. There’s no municipality’s
in York County. Councilman Snyder said look, the only
reason I brought this up was because I agree with what you’re
saying Tom, we do have to watch what we’re spending on
taxes, we can’t afford to continue bash people. When I hear
the program coordinator, if they pick and chose because
the program is over $100,000.00 and a skate board park is not
yet funded because we can’t justify that its only going to
be used for low to moderate income people. Then I’m looking
at and say okay, we can maximize that grant money but putting
to what its best for council saying we don’t need to put the
skate park in. Councilman Allar said we’re talking to the
same people at the county and that’s why I was breaking this
down into different years. Jason, you had this worked out.
Mr. Reichard said yes, in the application. Councilman Allar
said the first year, is only a little over a $100,000.00, it fits
the criteria, and then it goes into other years. Councilman
Noll asked what’s our likelihood of being funded on,
everyone is saying we get one chance at this, and we’re
talking about a three year fund, is there any chance that in
years two and three that we’re even going, say we get
$100,000.00 the first year, is there any shot that we’ll see
any money. Councilman Allar asked you mean the second
and third year? Councilman Noll said the second and third
year. Councilman Allar said what this is, is a three year
submission. And they’re going to review this every year,
in that three year block. Councilman Noll said I guess
my question is, everyone is saying we get one shot at this,
it seems to me that if they fund us a pile of money the
first year, we’ve taken our shot and we’re not going to
see the same year in year two and three, little to none.
Councilman Allar said no, when we send in a three year
plan, they get allocations for each year. Councilman
Noll asked Mr. Reichard what has your experience been?
Mr. Reichard said well, my experience is, its like Sam said,
they like to pick projects that are $100,000 range and in this
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33
case this is Yoe Borough’s project. How we earmark
the money, I think its independent of them obligated.
In this case we tried to split it up, I need to look at a little
better. We put more money in the first year, if we get
that money great. The second year, its not as much and
it just fine tunes and we get it out for bid and we get it
that would be great. But generally, every job I’ve done,
its been in multiple years, its been around $100,000.00.
Councilman Noll said its just that one shot, and they
don’t seem to get funded? Mr. Reichard said it’s kind
of rare because most of the projects are bid and you
have a contract to do, it has to be somewhat unique that
you have a second year come into play and you get an
additional $50,000.00 that can be used towards that
job or its just compiled to another job. Councilman
Allar said they do have other municipalities that put
in two or three year plans, the next year their name will
come up and that’s why they have it broken down,
phase two, phase three, that’s why they do it. If they’re
going to say, oh well, we’ll only going to give you
phase one only. Why don’t we try to say, what do you
want for phase two, for phase three? Sam said it,
we’re looking at 100,000 break points, a million dollars
of what they want to spend for this year. There’s another
allocation coming next year. Councilman Noll said I
guess what my question is, and I don’t disagree with
it all being in one year, but just asking what the likelihood
is of getting any money the second and third year. Mr.
Reichard said my personal and this is kind of why, they’re
basically are saying we’ll willing to give Yoe Borough
$100,000.00 because they have a project that is earmarked
for that money. We have to justify, in past years, we had
a significant job that the borough needed, and they went
beyond that, and gave us $500,000.00. Councilman Allar
said they approve the project, and if its applied for,
that project is approved, they’re not saying you’re going
to get everything you asked for, but they will give over
the next three years. Councilman Myers said I agree,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34
that they’ll less likely fund that. Councilman Noll said
I think they won’t go past the scope of $100,000.00.
Mr. Reichard said that theory I mean. Councilman
Myers said we’re sitting here as good stewards for
Yoe Borough okay. I’m not say I’m for this but if
we’re sitting here as good stewards of Yoe Borough,
we just beat us up about our taxes, and looking at
that mileage rate we just had, then we should just
become a village and be part of York Township.
Then your taxes are down and you just did your
taxpayer what you wanted to do. I’m not saying I’m
for that I’m just saying I love Yoe Borough but I’m
saying if we are good stewards of Yoe Borough, then
you need to look at it. Councilman Allar said let’s
continue that thought, if we are good stewards of
Yoe Borough, why don’t we put some thought into
this vision I’m talking about, in ten, fifteen years,
what do we want it to look like. What is going to
attract people into this town? We know there’s a
budget crisis we don’t even talk about it, accept
when budget comes around and then again, I guess
we have to do another tax increase. This is serious
stuff. I don’t care if there is a skate board park, I
really don’t. I’d like to see something for the kids,
something different than what we already have.
Yes, upgrade and repair what we have to repair,
how do you make the town different, how do you
attract people, how do get people to want to live here?
Not by doing someone else’s storm water. We’ve
got to be different. I’ve already talked to two editors
of the newspaper, they would love to do, headline,
I mean front page, pictures, putting Yoe on the map
of how we’re turning, not just one article, a series, on
how we’re turning Yoe Borough around. Right now,
half the town doesn’t know where Yoe is, the other
half doesn’t want to live here. Councilman Snyder
said the problem is, and I agree with a lot of what
you’re saying, but you keep saying why worry about
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
the storm water issues, you also said about the taxes
are too high. But what good is a skate park going to
do, when the thing gets flooded out. We already know
have a problem with Philadelphia Street, we need
to take care of this issues. You say well that’s going
to be taken care of in the future, when? I guarantee you
the minute Rexroth comes in here, to put any kind of
land development plan in, we’re going to have so many
residents sitting in here, they’re going to say, we want
you council to fight. Regardless of what it is unless its
single family unit homes, we’re going to be fighting
Rexroth and we will hold him up like we did last time to
keep anything out. So what happens is that water continues
just pour down and pour down and now we got to worry
about redoing a street. Okay, you just mentioned we don’t
have money. Okay, we’ve got to keep our streets running
so the people who want to live here can get out. I mean
we have to prioritize some of this stuff. This has been our
project from day one. I just brought it up to council’s
attention, because I don’t think council knows that it
was taken out. And when I heard from Joiann and that
would get funded. So what are we suppose to do about
our roads? I mean we are worried about putting in a skate
park that is going to be floating down Philadelphia Street.
Councilman Allar, Sam, we’re putting it at the tennis
courts, the tennis courts do not get flooded out, the
flooding at the skate board park is not an issue. Second,
we haven’t really put pressure on the authorities, Conservation
District, Chuck Noll and the commissioners to try to get
to get up there and get this guy to keep it up as his property.
Or it maybe as simple as having Joe Strobeck, having him
cut that little holding area another foot deeper. Problem
solved. Councilman Myers said the only thing, I guess, I
understand what you’re saying but, I’ve got water issues
and I work for the county and I can’t get these people to
do what you’re just saying. In their own park system, I have
issues there all the time and you go out and fix them, when
you have major wearing. And I go to Spring Garden Township
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
and say we have a major issue here, York College has
this gigantic pavement they put there and stuff, wipes
out the rail trail and the township says let’s sue them.
York County, they can’t help. Councilman Allar said
a simple solution was calling Mr. Rexroth up and have
him sit down and talk. I bet 80% of problems are solved
in that manner. Councilman Crull said you can’t talk
to that man. Councilman Allar said a lot of people tell
me different, he’s a smart guy and he realizes that even
the water running through Yoe and complaints are not
going to help him. Councilman Myers said I agree he
is a smart man, and I’ve dealt with him one on one. I
remember him telling me one time, he’s not going to
nothing if its not going to benefit him. Now that’s a
work for you, because if it gets rid of the complaints its
going to benefit him. Councilman Snyder said that’s
what he tried to do with the high index, high density
housing, we’ll take of your water problem, if you let
me put in my 84 homes back there. Councilman Noll
asked is there any mis-logic and I think we have a
two pronged approach to this, if you put the money
in there for storm water management, I think we can
actively try to solve other avenues. One way or another
this problem has to be solved. CDBG comes in and they
like that, that’s what you’re saying, they give us money
for it, if we solve our problem, that money is now
available can we redirect it for storm water management.
If we show them well unbeknown to us at the time we
put this in, that the land holder up above us saw the water
problem and you gave us, what position does that put
us in? Mr. Reichard said that falls back to the same
scenario, you have to get it approved. Councilman Allar
said that’s what I was saying before, we don’t know
what the heck he’s going to build, we’re just trying to
get the money. And they were telling me that there are
funds to pay for it. Just like they’re telling you. When
you’re talking to Joiann Galiano, she will tell you yes,
to everything and you know that. So when we get the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37
money, and if we ever get some citizen participation
in this town, we might find out what they really want.
And in that point of time, its still going to be probably
end of this year, we have at least six months here, we
might be able to resolve this storm water problem.
But then if we take the skate board park out of course,
then we need to put it back in. Mr. Reichard said the
only challenge in that case would be, say you get the
storm water problem solved and there’s $40,000.00
sitting there and you want to redirect it to something,
that’s now going to go to everything else that’s
short listed, so if there’s another project that the
forty thousand can be used for that will have a greater
benefit to low and moderate income. That’s the only
risk you run. Councilman Noll asked so you have to
reapply? Mr. Reichard said more or less. Councilman
Noll said say hey we didn’t use it for this, unbeknown
to us when we filed, it was solved? Councilman Allar
asked Jason, do you remember that plan I gave you
from the county, the county plan that went out in
2009? Mr. Reichard said the short list funded plan.
Councilman Allar said it was all short list funded,
remember what are our short list one was on there?
Mr. Reichard said the gabion. Councilman Allar said
no, come on I gave it to you. It was for the skate
board park. Mr. Reichard said I didn’t remember.
Councilman Snyder said yeah like I said when I talked
to Joiann Galiano today, she was surprised that storm
water was taken out. Cause she said that would have
been a given. All I’m trying to do, is to do the exact
same thing, Tom. I’m trying to maximize the amount
of money we’re going to get. And when I’m looking at
Dana be coming in next month saying what are we going
to do with all this playground equipment how are we going
to upgrade the pavilion itself, we already got this grants
in place and she’s saying that, that stuff would likely
get funded. It’s like if we’re not going to through with
skate board park then we put that stuff in now. We put it
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 38
in now because she’s saying that’s what they want to fund.
So we’re maximizing the amount of money that we do
have. Councilman Tom said now the playground equipment,
how much for that? Councilman Snyder said around
$40,000.00. Councilman Allar said okay $40,000.00, are
we talking about storm water outlet? Councilman Snyder
said whatever Jason. Mr. Reichard said 38. Councilman
Allar said it’s the whole way up to 38 now? Councilman
Noll said you can be rather creative with your storm
water management. Mr. Reichard said we have to pipe in,
its piped the whole way down Philadelphia. Councilman
Allar asked what’s the pavilion? Mr. Reichard said the
pavilion, we had $22,000.00. Councilman Allar said
now a lot of that. Mr. Reichard said that’s rewiring and
miscellaneous repairs. We modified numbers since.
Councilman Snyder said I was going off of what I had.
Mr. Reichard said its on the engineer’s report then
Tom and I worked on the numbers. Councilman Allar
asked and what other issues are there? Mr. Reichard
said do you have the application? It would be on the
one sheet in front of the photos. It’s the first sheet in
front of the pictures in the back. Councilman Noll asked
how much description do you give like storm water
management, or do you just have it as. Mr. Reichard
said well that’s out. Councilman Noll said well if you
would put it in, do you have spell out what exactly you
are doing right now. Mr. Reichard said we had it in,
it just described the situation in that collection system
that we used to reroute the water and bypass the park.
Councilman Noll asked so you could use that on any
other storm water problems throughout the rest of the
park. Mr. Reichard said well yeah. Councilman Noll
said what I’m asking is, if we make this more general
where we know what we wanted to apply, could it
be used for stabilization other places for better use
of this money to solve it that way if we don’t use the
money, God knows we can do a lot with that kind of
money with all sorts of problems not in just that one
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 39
area. You’re losing the back side of the park because
you’ve got the plants up there. You’ve got no soil up
there, you’ve got old growth, trees with none coming
back in. Councilman Snyder said that’s why I say, you
put something like that in, soil and erosion control.
And you work some numbers up and he gets you some
ideas put it in and make it a generic overall the whole
park. It can apply for the whole park. And that’s why
I said using a plan like I just roughly came up with,
that’s still gives a $16,000.00 buffer that if we don’t
overages, if there aren’t any extra fees. Hey you can
apply that to any one of those categories. Councilman
Noll said because I’m sure you, you brought any
conservation, storm water, its not just that one area,
if we can get someone to solve that for us. Mr. Reichard
said the argument still needs to be, that by the CDBG
program funding its going to directly benefit low to
moderate income. In this case we were able to put it
because the drainage is impacting the borough residents.
See the water on the public street. Councilman Allar
asked Seth, on the restroom, some of that has been done.
Rest of that stuff another $10,000.00? Mr. Reichard said
$27,500.00. Councilman Noll said when I did the
estimate I did it as if they’re no in kind contributions,
you had to go out to hired contractor A to come in
to do the project start to finish. That’s where I got that
figure. Councilman Allar said if we’re going to get down
to real numbers. Councilman Noll said you’re probably
eight to ten thousand dollars, which are toilets, we dropped
off toilets, grab bars. Councilman Allar said I don’t want
push on this but do we have a 50/50 chance of maybe getting
Kinsley back to maybe help us this fall. Councilman Noll
said if we have some money left to throw at them, we could.
Councilman Allar said we’re still going to provide materials
so maybe that we could reduce that down to let’s say
$80,000.00. The ADA, remember when we were talking,
we were actually trying to make up money, to get to
that $100,000.00. So we were talking about the ADA trails
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 40
we added, we said 22 is way too high. And you know, you
said something like 15. Mr. Reichard said I did, it hard to
upgrade. Councilman Noll asked was that for the bathroom
trails? Mr. Reichard said well yeah, well, they want to
see DCNR on their side, they’re going to want to see inter-
connection of facilities, so we’re actually looking , to run
a trail from the basketball court area out and across and over
to where the pavilions are. Councilman Noll said and that
doesn’t have to be paved, it can be pressure. Mr. Reichard
said trail mix. Councilman Myers said that’s a pretty good
grade there to get up that hill. Mr. Reichard said its not
that bad. Councilman Myers said is that right, the whole
way to the bathroom. Mr. Reichard said well down to
the back. If we were able to get 5%. Councilman Myers
said you were able to get 5%? Mr. Reichard said there’s
grading, we’re going, water runs up there. Councilman
Noll said once you apply for something, you get into ramps, rails and rests. Councilman Myers asked what about water
runoff? Councilman Snyder said I think that’s what Seth
was getting at, if we put in for storm water runoff. Councilman
Myers said you’re going to have control it. Mr. Reichard said
pretty much, we’re not going to be generating much more
than what’s out there. Look at the site that’s out there now, its
pretty much stone and gravel. Councilman Myers said but
now you’re going to be digging in the ground creating a
trough. We just experienced that, it doesn’t work so good.
Mr. Reichard said its not, this is a concept plan, we’re just
running rough grades. I think we can make a lot of it tie
together. Councilman Snyder said I guess the point is with
all this, I’ve heard before what I got was a consensus of
council that we didn’t want a skate park. We’re having
engineering dollars being spent on stuff like this for
a skate park and basically Jason came up with a comment.
And basically Jason came up with a comment, of well
you’re either putting a skate park in or you’re not. I mean
let’s actually go after money, that a project that we actually
want to do. Councilman Allar said when I am adding this
up here, you may want to check the math here. We’ve got
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 41
playground equipment for 40, we’ve got storm water for
38, we have pavilion for 11, the restrooms we know
have to get done at 8, parking for 8 and we’ve got the
trials for 15. Now that’s a 120. What do we have to work
with, we have a 70 thousand DCNR grant, we got a
$100,000 CDBG and we have $25,000 from Mike. That’s
a $195,000, we have $120,000 counting storm water. That
difference is $75,000.00 We could do the skate park.
Councilman Noll said the only thing to, you’ve got Kinsley
coming in, once this becomes a project, we have to be
very careful because that $25,000.00 becomes part of
prevailing wage and that’s going to keep costs up. Councilman
Snyder said all I did, I handed Jason, I took the figure that
he was presenting to council, modified it. I heard Ron say
we don’t want a skate park, Barry said we don’t want
a skate park, I said we don’t want a skate park, Seth said
he doesn’t want a skate park, George? Councilman Allar
said well I know because. Councilman Snyder said just
wait a minute. George? We’re at this point Tom, the
decision needs to be made tonight because guess what
they’re making their decision next month, so the point
is, we’re now to the point where we have to present them
with our project list and what I came up with was saying
look if we’re not putting in a skate park, then lets put in
stuff that they said that they would fund and get funded
quicker than a skate park. And we know we have to put
this money into the park. Councilman Allar said I think
that’s been shaded a little bit because I had the same
conservation with the same people. Councilman Noll
asked can we prioritize monies something like that, if
people want to look at. I’m not saying that we do
skate park, that our priorities are shifted around. My
feelings,we don’t have a strong foundation to do some
of the basic things. Councilman Snyder said she said,
what her exact words were to me, she said if you want
to use, put this stuff in and it would be funded. She said
the skate park, you’re going to have a hard time getting
through because you’re not now catering it, and he’s
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 42
even talking about making money off it, you’re not
catering to low and moderate income therefore it doesn’t fit the CDBG criteria. She said if you want to use this
money for CDBG and you want to use your entire
DCNR for a skate board park, by all means do it.
Because what we are looking at, is CDBG money
and CDBG grant. What you do with your DCNR
money is up to you. And all I did, I came up with,
knowing what we have to do with upgrades with
equipment, upgrades in the kitchen. I just roughed
up some figures that if we were not doing a skate
park these are some viable options to maximize
all three grants and have $16,000.00 to play with.
Councilman Allar said if I can get you and you and
John, because I know he’s against it in a room for
about an hour and give you some facts on what’s
happened in other communities, without you guys
jumping to conclusions and prejudging. Councilman
Manns said its more than the three of them. Councilman
Myers said its not just because of the skatepark. Just
cause you say the skatepark, so what. Councilman Manns
said it’s a couple of things, you talk about baseball,
you talk about football, there’s a couple of things.
Councilman Howett said well guys, it may be, but just
Seth was saying, if we don’t get the park in decent
shape, it doesn’t matter what you build up there, you’re
not going having a facility for parking. Councilman Allar
said we already got that, we’ve got the parking. we’ve
got the storm water, we’ve got the pavilion, we’ve got
the ADA. Councilman Howett asked where is the parking?
Councilman Allar said its in there. Councilman Myers said
I like the plan, the plan looks nice. Councilman Allar said
we want to do something different. Councilman Manns said
one was paid for in five years, its been there thirty. We have
two facilities that are basically used, basically rotted. The
basketball is used very rarely. Councilman Snyder said I don’t
know, I just saw a kid walk from Blossom Hill holding his
basketball walking up the court. I live by it. I’m telling you,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 43
almost every night playing basketball, talk about one of
the things we could add in there is to upgrade the
basketball courts. The point is, there is so much we
could do with our existing facilities. You go out and
look at Springettsbury Township, that place is packed
with people. All we have to do is mirror something like
that. All that is upgrading our current facilities and that
park is packed. Councilman Myers said just keep in mind,
I don’t care what it is, when you have something
successful, you got to spend, you’ve got the money, its
going to cost you. In maintenance. The problem is, I don’t
know what your reason is, you’ve never talked to me about,
yet you want me to go ahead and vote for something, I don’t see your vision, I don’t see neither one of your visions and
I visited state parks too. So what. Ocean City, Timonium,
so what. They have their skates. Councilman Noll said
Sam, to move things along is it possible to look at things
this way, I think a lot of council agrees there are basic things
that we have to do up there. Can we do that in year one and then
look at year two, three once we have the basic things in line
up at the park, get the money and get them built. And then
maybe look at these things in year two and three to try and get
the money because we obviously need a lot more from the
` community. Because basically, no one from the community
has come to talk to us. Councilman Myers said right. Tom,
do we have to say, we don’t have to say what we want there.
Can’t we just be vague. Councilman Snyder said as far as
play equipment, yeah. Councilman Noll said cause we could
request more equipment in years two and three and that.
Mr. Reichard said in the initial round, you’ll get. Councilman
Myers said I’ve said this, I don’t agree with the skate park,
however, I don’t have a problem that we can make it vague
and maybe do a little bit more research, so he can tell me
how he can get the money. Councilman Allar said, well
Barry, what do you have against it? Mr. Reichard said
here’s the deal, we have another grant, DCNR grant.
We’re up against the wall and I need to marching orders.
We originally guys, said to move with this, that plan
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 44
right now doesn’t have a skate park on, it has two
words that say skate park, that’s it. I’m at the point
where that needs to be filled in and show the layout
for the park and start to pull this together, if you
guys want this thing to happen on the DCNR side.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m getting at,
he’s spending more and more engineering time,
putting together a skate park which I’m hearing.
Councilman Allar asked what does it take to
put together a skate park? Mr. Reichard said I’ve
got to put a plan, we’ve got to bid this thing.
Councilman Allar said you’ve already have the
numbers. Mr. Reichard said so that’s what he’s
referring you. Councilman Allar said so what is
that you have to do, they’re going to do engineer
the skate board park not you. Mr. Reichard said
its going to be put on that plan right there and its
going, because its for DCNR. That’s the plan he’s
referring to. Councilman Allar said so why make
a big deal of it, its not a big deal. Councilman
Snyder said we’ve discussed this now for an hour
and a half, we can take a roll call. I ‘ve heard Ron,
I’ve heard Barry, I’ve heard George, I’ve heard Seth,
I know myself. That’s five to two. All I’m trying to
do is give an alternative that we can maximize our
monies and keeping that stuff in there if we’re not
going through with the skate park which at this point
I’m looking out for Yoe Borough residents, you know
to try to get people from York and all over, to say
we’re going to get this big facility. Right now we’ve
got 100 kids up there using fifty year old equipment,
right here is a way to maximize what we’ve got so
if this is what we’re going to go with I think we need
to make a motion, amend the resolution to amend
the CDBG grant to move forward with the project.
Because otherwise we’re going to just spend more
and more time talking about skate park of which I
hear five to two is against it. So why do we keep
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 45
bringing it up. Councilman Crull said I make a motion
that we forget about the skate park and to amend
that resolution for the CDBG application. Councilman
Snyder said you will be able to draw, like she said
it has to go like ASAP if we’re going to get considered
for it. Mr. Reichard said we’d have to revise the application,
and a cost breakdown. Councilman Snyder said but you
could get the resolution in and say that’s forthcoming.
The secretary said I could call you with the number then.
Mr. Reichard said you’d have to authorize me to sign it
to. Councilman Snyder said but you are going to draft it.
Mr. Reichard said it would be the same resolution, we
would just edit some of the words. Need a new number.
I think you need to take directed action. Councilman
Snyder said we have a motion on the table. I wanted to
make sure that we had ducks in a row that you can
do this, again we’re under the gun. Councilman Noll
said we need a second to that and then final discussion.
Councilman Snyder said do I have a second? Councilman
Myers seconded the motion. All in favor? Councilman
Myers said you’ve got to discuss it before you vote for it.
Councilman Snyder asked is that what you want more
discussion? Councilman Noll said the only thing I would
say, do you have a problem that so that maybe in the
future that we could look at other alternatives, including
some kind of equipment in years two and three of
the CDBG grant. Councilman Allar said first of all,
the plan, the due date of that outline needs to be
approved. Second of all the DCNR grant is done of
the first year and the $25,000.00 so that’s done. You’ve
not going to have money at the second and third years.
Councilman Noll said the only reason I asked was earlier
you said. Councilman Allar said you’re look at 25 or
50 tops CDBG in the second year and part of that is
going to your ideas. Mr. Reichard said I think you’re
saying pull out those ideas into, all those safety.
Councilman Snyder said with upgrade of the equipment,
of the pavilion. Councilman Allar said you can use
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 46
Seth’s idea. Councilman Snyder said we were over a 100
right of way, those figures came from a project of
$178,000.00 but we were only requesting a $100,000.00
from CDBG because that’s the cut off. With adding
$70,000.00 from DCNR that leaves us $8000.00 short.
With the $25,000.00 from Mike Waugh now we have
a $16,000.00 surplus. So yes, those things can be included.
The upgrades to kitchen can be included, anything in there
for equipment upgrade. The whole point was, we kept
pushing and pushing for a skate park trying to get money,
now they come back and say guess what if this truly
what you’re going to do, if you’re , if it was reported,
we’ll get the skate park in and then we can always
rearrange the money. Well guess what it doesn’t work
that way. It doesn’t work that way. Councilman Noll said
what Tom was talking saying earlier. Councilman Snyder
said because she said. Councilman Noll said what we
talked about is that we had good opportunities for years
two and three and now I’m hearing we want to put that
equipment in there two and three so we have none.
Councilman Snyder said exactly because she said was,
you could do that, I’m just basing off the conversation
I had, and the only reason I had this conversation was
because when I read over these minutes and I saw that
got omitted. I thought council doesn’t know that, that
storm water got omitted cause that was in there from
day one. And when I talked to her and she said.
Councilman Allar said the resolution, that’s why I
went there. Councilman Snyder said yeah you also
Tom, you know what the discussion was, what I read
made it quite clear I keep seeing skate park, we don’t
want a skate park. Councilman Allar said its your
signature on. Councilman Snyder said because he
presented the thing I had to sign it because I was told
that this what you need to do because you weren’t.
Councilman Allar said I see the resolution and I see
the signature. Councilman Snyder said anyway. Councilman
Noll said my only point, is that if we can look at the equipment
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 47
in years two and three. Councilman Snyder said my point
was Seth. Councilman Manns said the only thing I would
really say is we’re really cutting off, regardless of the funding,
regardless of the block grant, the block grant made it quite
clear, we’re not blazing new trails, and that’s fine. Councilman
Howett said not if we’re upgrading. Councilman Manns said
its old equipment George, its not going to take. Councilman
Howett said look at the stuff we put in down at Rudy, when
we upgraded that old wooden thing, I mean, now we have
people coming from everywhere to get into it. I mean, just
saying, I’m not saying I’m against the skate park either.
Councilman Allar said its not an either, or, we have, if
we upgraded the equipment,we’d be done. As far as the
building, we can put in a Cadillac edition, there are certain
things for safety reasons we’ve got to do but that building,
is used from May to October. Having an a #1 kitchen
doesn’t produce any more rentals. Councilman Snyder
said no, what it will able to do is be able to charge from $50.00
up to $100.00. Because people don’t want to pay for what
they already. Councilman Allar said well maybe, or maybe
they’ll go elsewhere to someone else. Councilman Myers said
honest to God, we’re charging $50.00, that’s a good deal.
The secretary said we’re charging $105.00 to rent the park.
Councilman Allar said if we charge that now. Councilman
Snyder said but what are we getting, 60 bucks out of it.
Councilman Myers said that’s a good deal up there, cause
they’re getting the services. Councilman Snyder said
Ron had an excellent idea to get money in, with having
that property down there, to quick claim it and sell it
off as parcels. The only reason why we’re not sitting on
extra $120,000.00 is because the rail trail came through
and we’re just waiting to see what’s going to happen with
that. I mean there are other options out there. Councilman
Allar said that property, I’m going to make sure that
property, if it comes available , that we go for it, of course
you’re not going to get $150,000.00, I don’t care what that
real estate rule is. Councilman Snyder said okay, the motion
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 48
has been made and seconded. In favor: Councilman Noll,
Councilman Snyder, and Councilman Howett. Opposed:
Councilman Allar and Councilman Manns. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried, so be it resolved. Mr. Reichard
said then I will amend this application according, resubmitted
to CDBG and York County, and their action will be to contact
to DCNR to figure out what situation is going to be.
Councilman Snyder asked Seth, is there any way, I know
you worked some numbers before when you were working
with Tom. I know Barry has even had a book here for park
equipment. Is there anything that you are going to need that
you can ask them directly, to say I need this to get this done?
So we meet our deadline. I think we need to work up some
numbers to work up numbers that we need. Mr. Reichard
said everything is the same. Councilman Snyder said when
we’re changing park equipment and upgrading the pavilion,
cause like I said, Dana mentioned about, you would come
in handy for that, you know what’s needed up in that kitchen
area, counters, cupboards, I think Gail said about the flooring,
stove, refrigerators, if you need any. I just threw those figures
together because I just happened to see it, and said hey
this would work because if we keep to $100,000.00, we’ll
have $178,000.00 project, but we’re only requesting 100.
So I came up with figures and said, whether $40,000.00 is
enough to upgrade all that equipment, I have no clue, I about
died when I saw what Dana wanted. He said I was going to
come and ask you for about $10,000.00 over the next couples
years because that equipment needs replaced. Mr. Reichard
said I’m confused about one thing, you had $40,000.00 in
equipment upgrades. You had $44,000.00 for health and
safety improvements. Councilman Noll said that was probably
all ADA related, wasn’t that for the wiring, I’m not sure.
Mr. Reichard said well we have the pavilion, we have rewiring
and miscellaneous repairs $22,000.00, restrooms at $27,500.00.
ADA trails by themselves, $22,000.00. Councilman Noll said
with the ADA trails, that would help us get us to $44,000.00,
$45,000.00. Mr. Reichard said so that $44,000.00 is phase
two. Councilman Snyder said well no, what she, I’ll tell
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 49
what she told me, she said that ADA trails, won’t get funded,
They have to be preexisting to make it ADA. She said what
you could do is use that money, like that DCNR that you still
keep it in project, but she said its not going to get funded,
if you ask for this through CDBG, she said and its over
$100,000.00, we’re going to pick and choose and we have
criteria that we need to meet. You have to look at them as
two separate grants, but you’re using them together to fund
one big project. She said what doesn’t fit in our grant, she
` said you have the other grant for so basically I was looking
at, okay we’ve got a $195,000.00, and that’s what I came up
with. I figured because I knew Seth, was talking and he
had some ideas. I mean Dana just gave me some quick figures
based off of, two swing sets, the sliding board and the merry
go round. And I figured once you get some site prep,in there,
you can easily get $40,000.00 in those four pieces, just to
put them in. Mr. Reichard said alright, I have a list of
everything you have, the breakdown. What I’ll do, let
me go back and go over these numbers, and make sure
it all works. My first step is to just update this, second
step is we’ve got to get a hold of DCNR, and make them
of aware of the situation, of what we’re amending the
grant. The initial application included the skate park.
To make sure that is still secure that we can use that for
the rest of these improvements, which were in the original
application. Councilman Snyder said which I was going to
say, that everyone one of those items, is still in the DCNR
grant. The only thing you’ve taken out is the skate park and
you changed that to equipment, that’s it. And really the way
I understood it when I talked to the person at DCNR, about
two to three years ago, they told me, they said, we don’t care
if you put in a half a million dollar public pool. We approved
$70,000.00. So we need to see a plan for what you’re going
to do for you $70,000.00 matching money. So we want to see
$140,000.00 project. Mr. Reichard said okay, my next question
with that, there the word equipment, I’m reading into that
there is some interest into some piece of skate board equipment
on the property, is that accurate? Not a skate board park but
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 50
something that these kids can us there. Is that? Councilman
Myers said this company they make systems look relatively
decent. I don’t know how much they cost? They must be
on the GSA state contract. I seen that. Councilman Snyder
said the way that thing is set up you have $16,000.00 buffer
I mean, it truly is, which I don’t know. I know the basketball
court gets used, I don’t know that much about the tennis
courts, except my daughter says she goes up there to play
tennis, other than that. Whose to say you don’t put a
couple of ramps up there. I mean what do kids with
skateboards use at home other than couple of wooden
ramps in their back yard. So we give them a couple ramps
to play with, for God’s sake we have people going down
there to our dam, and all it is one big ramp. Councilman
Noll said I think its worth, look at everything else and
see how the numbers are. I can’t remember. Mr. Reichard
said I can’t either, I would like to have a park committee,
if you have one, to help me work this thing out in detail.
Because as we move forward with DCNR, once we set,
two swing sets and we put a Playworld playground set
in to replace existing equipment, all that has to be worked
out here. Initially we can convey within the next week to
get this application in for CDBG but to move forward with
the master park plan in DCNR we have to bring closure.
Councilman Noll said you have a spec to go by. Mr. Reichard
said we’ve got to say what we’re going to do. Councilman
Allar said we’ve got skateboarding planned. Councilman
Snyder said I know Seth’s has been helping out in it, Dana
needs to be included. I about died when he came to me. But
he’s not going to be back until what did you say. The secretary
said he’ll be back working on July 8th. Councilman Noll said
if you want to get together next week, I know I can’t do
that Wednesday. Mr. Reichard said Dana is not on council.
The secretary said its too bad you can’t get a mother, or
someone who has children, because they know what children
like to play on. Maybe have Gail Koller on it too. Mr. Reichard
said I’ll sort through it and have my initial two goals and then
move on, we’ll work out the details. Councilman Myers said
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 51
if you need I’ll help. The secretary said I’ll help too.
Mr. Reichard said we need a plan of what we’re actually
doing, because right now I have a concept plan but
that’s all the further it is. Councilman Snyder said we
can ask Gail Koller tomorrow about being on the committee.
The secretary said she might know if someone has said they’d
like to see something at the park. Councilman Snyder said
was that all you had for engineering. Mr. Reichard said yes.
Councilman Snyder said only a couple of things that I had.
We talked about the Bowser subdivision. We did discuss
the $25,000.00 grant we got from Mike Waugh. Councilman
Noll asked how long do we have to use that, is that only
through this year? Councilman Snyder said I don’t know,
this letter doesn’t say anything. Councilman Noll said
I think that would be helpful to know. Councilman Allar
said we have until end of the year. I double check I think
until probably I’ll double check. Councilman Snyder said
when I got one for the police explorers it has to be
be under contract until the following fiscal year. With
this one I don’t know. June 30th. Councilman Allar said
I think we have a full year. Councilman Snyder said
its probably from June to June.
Letter Councilman Snyder said we did get a letter from
From Representative Miller, in support of our DEP grant
Rep. for the growing greener water shed. Did you get a copy
Miller of that? Mr. Reichard said I don’t remember seeing it.
YBSA Councilman Snyder said we have a copy of the minutes of
Minutes the March 13, 2008 meeting from the Yoe Borough
Sewer Authority. The secretary said I think I gave that
out last month.
PSAB Councilman Snyder said we did get a PSAB alert concerning
Alert the supreme court’s decision on maintenance works and
how that effective with that prevailing wage thing. In short
of discussed over, I did send a copy of this notice to Jason
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 52
and to Pete and I gave one to Dana and one to the mayor
just because I knew he was coming down that night. The
secretary said and that’s what I was talking about last
month, when I send that Springfield Township had
maintenance work and they cancelled it out because
of prevailing wage for maintenance on roads. Mr. Reichard
said what they are saying is that the prevailing wage
rates apply for full replacement. The secretary said they
weren’t sure what maintenance meant, weren’t sure
what they meant by that. We haven’t gotten our audit
notice back yet from when Pfflum did that work, we
haven’t gotten that back yet. Councilman Snyder said
they tried to give us some direction as to what major
and minor work is and basically they’re saying lesser
or minor form of repair. Fixing potholes and basically
is the way they’re interrupting it right now anything more
than that on road maintenance gets kicked up into
prevailing wage, if you hit that threshold. As supreme
decision, at that point the only way to get around is
changing the law.
Letter Councilman Snyder said we do have a letter from C.S.
to Charles Davidson to Charles Noll, again acknowledging receipt
Noll of a letter designating funding of $51,550.00 for the
flood protection project. So that letter did go out.
Letter Councilman Snyder said we did get a letter from DEP
from concerning, they reviewed the 2007 annual report
DEP under Chapter 94, the report is generally complete
and acceptable. So we’re allowed to use the sewer.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for the engineer? Thanks
for coming tonight.
Councilman Snyder said Dana is on vacation until
the eight of July up in Gettysburg.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 53
PENN Councilman Snyder said the first thing that he has
DOT on the list was about the streets and how he made
out with PENN DOT.
Park Councilman Snyder said park, the summer adventure
day camp has started. John has the prices from Richard
of Perpetual Electronics for more cameras. He repaired
the toilet damage at the park.
53 N. Councilman Snyder said Mr. Shearer is working with
Church property owners of 53 Church Street to comply with
the violation letter. The secretary said that’s Gregory
Weigle and Charlotte Sullivan. Councilman Snyder
said that’s for the property maintenance. They are in
the permit process with Code Administrators for
the required work. So he is letting us know. The
secretary said he gave them another 30 day extension.
Councilman Snyder said as long as he is seeing progress
License Councilman Snyder said we have one landlord that has
Fee not paid license fees. Property owned by a mortgage
company. That is the one that is being sheriffed. He
called me on it and I just told him, we’re spend more
money trying to put a lien on the property at this point
you might as well let it go. Go through the sheriff’s sale
and see who owns it. At that point, the mortgage company
isn’t renting, so it doesn’t qualify for the rental fee.
We’re only going to try to back fees, and that’s only
after Ginglaweski and if she files for bankruptcy, try
to get it out of her.
Mowers Councilman Snyder said he did purchase mowers and
and Weed weed eaters for ARD. The secretary said its on the bill
Eaters list and in the bill file. Councilman Snyder said he repaired
the large mower and ARD mowed two weed violation
properties. I do know from talking to him, I will add cause
I saw him before he left money, he wasn’t suppose to be
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 54
here but he was. He said he is in the process of setting up
a time with Mayor Sanford that they will be going through
town and spraying the weeds along Main Street and then
after they die off or get into the root system, with the poison,
then they’ll have ARD come in and chop it. It was also
brought to his. Councilman Allar asked who is going to spray
it. The secretary said John is. Councilman Snyder said they’re
going to go under John Sanford’s permit. And evidently he
has a machine that you hook it up to a truck and I guess one
person drives and the other person sprays. He did bring to my
attention, he was going to send off to the zoning officer the
property at 111 S. Main Street, Mr. Sprenkle about the tree
hanging over the sidewalk in violation of our ordinance. I
did remind, I informed of what transpired a few years ago,
that it turns out that is a rare tree. Believe it or not, on the
endangered species list. It has all the paperwork from
Pennsylvania and everything, so have the enforcement letter
if the officer chooses to send one out, do it tactfully. And
say we don’t want to have to come in here and mess up
this rare tree, we hope you would comply with the ordinance
and last time he did trim it up. I don’t know who he got to
do it. Once he found that out, he did say he would take the
appropriate safety precautions when spraying on Main St.
so no spray gets up under those leaves. So we don’t kill
that off. Councilman Myers said tell me again, how we
doing this? Somebody is spraying and we’re using John
Sanford’s permit. Councilman Snyder said John Sanford
is going to be spraying with him using under John’s
permit. Councilman Myers said okay. Councilman Snyder
said I am just telling you what I was told. Councilman
Allar said I still don’t understand why we can’t get Dana
certified. Councilman Myers said I don’t know how you
can do that, you have to have VE number and John Sanford’s
business VE number is probably through the school.
Councilman Snyder said I think that’s how it is. Councilman
Myers said so that means his category is just for school.
So John wants to take that liability upon his self. Councilman
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 55
Snyder said that’s all I know maybe. Councilman
Myers said we actually talked about that the other day,
Tom. And actually I was thinking, we could probably,
make Dana just a technician and work under John and I’s
number which was just get a business number for the
borough. We’re applicators, George is an applicator, and
I’m an applicator and so is John. We could just train
Dana to be a technician, that fee is only ten dollars okay,
for his license. Then he doesn’t have to go to any
school. Councilman Snyder said and you’re already
listed as an employee of the borough. Councilman Myers
said right, I just have to check on the category. Councilman
Snyder said I’m just telling you what I was told, I mean
wasn’t on his report, I’m just relaying. Councilman Myers
said your license goes with the business that you’re in.
Councilman Snyder said that’s all he had on his maintenance
Note Councilman Snyder said a note was sent out to York County
to Probation and Parole, basically thanking them in appreciation
York for cooperation with ARD.
Red Lion Councilman Allar asked if Dana mentioned anything about
Mower the Red Lion lawn mower. The secretary said he used it,
then something happened to it again, so its back over again.
That’s all he said. Councilman Allar asked about the bill.
The secretary said I haven’t seen the bill yet. Councilman
Myers said its sounding like we don’t want to buy that
tractor, its broken more than it runs.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Snyder said he provided a list of violations
and letters that were sent out. The secretary said the number
of hours he worked. Councilman Snyder said a total of
8 hours and 34 miles. So we are getting our money’s worth
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 56
with going with them. Cause on average Richard was
having 12 to 15 hours. This month twelve violation
letters were sent out. If anyone wants to go over
this, its in the folder. The last time I heard anything
from him it was about the Bowser issue. I guess
everything is copasetic on this part.
Councilman Snyder asked anything for the zoning officer?
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Councilman Snyder said no EMA.
Mayor and Police Report
Councilman Snyder said he didn’t tell me he wasn’t going to
be here. The secretary said he will need to report next month.
Fall The secretary reported that Dallastown Fall Baseball would
Baseball like to use the baseball field on Tuesday and Thursdays 5:30PM
until dusk, Saturdays 9AM until 6PM, Sundays 12PM until
6PM from August 1, 2008 until October 31,2008. They agree
to provide a certificate of insurance and they agreed to pay
for the portable toilet rental this was previously approved
by you in other years. A motion was made by Councilman
Howett to allow Dallastown Fall Baseball to use the baseball
field with conditions listed. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Recycling The secretary said I have a copy of the recycling grant that
Grant is the joint grant with Dallastown for chipper, a new box
and leaf loader. If anyone wants to see it its right, I just
Increase The secretary said I just wanted to report to you, I know
we talk about money and everything. I haven’t been getting
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 57
very many bills from C. S. Davidson but I noticed when
I got the bill this month, they had a 4% increase in the bills
effective when we got the bills in March. We did not
receive any written notification. I just wanted to make you
aware that for example, Jason’s fee went from $88.00 and
some odd cents to $93.29 an hour. So that will affect
your engineering costs for the year. Councilman Snyder
said one thing I will say, maybe I’m not going to his
defense, the only thing I can think of is why we weren’t
notified is because we did pass that resolution at the
beginning of the year adopting subdivision. The secretary
said they went up with the bills in March. I just wanted
to make it aware of it for budget so that at that time you consider a 4% or 5% increase above anything else for
Grant ? Councilman Myers said on this recycling grant, we are going
to have share some of this money. The secretary said she
said we aren’t going to have to pay for anything at all, they’re
trying to get it funded 100%.
Letter Councilman Snyder said a letter was sent out to the Dallastown
To Post Office, evidently a gentleman decided to change his
Post address. Mrs. Crull said I want to verify that, when he came,
Office he hasn’t been receiving his mail because he has the same
address as the apartments. He asked if it could be changed
and I told him it could be. And then he needed to send
to Columbia Gas so they could change it. And he was going
to post office to put the change in. So I don’t know why the
post office needed a letter. Councilman Snyder said according
the phone calls that I got,which was all new to me, it was when
she was on vacation and I was playing phone tag with the post
mistress, and she just said this guy came in changed his
address put in a request for change of address and data
management won’t accept the address change without
recognition from the municipality that their allowing the
address change. And I said that’s funny, I don’t know
anything about. I started making phone calls. We did
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 58
clarify it, once you got back, with Ron getting
in and out of hospital. Once we knew that Connie
approved it, then we sent the letter.
Bowser The secretary said we received a bill for Mr. Bowser,
105 E. Pennsylvania Avenue subdivision. Councilman
Snyder said you have to call him tomorrow, I don’t know
how that goes. First time under that resolution that someone’s doing a subdivision, and we recoup the engineering fees.
Do we pay the engineering fees and we go after Todd or does
Todd pay them direct? The secretary said I don’t know.
Councilman Snyder said I don’t know. Councilman Noll
said normally the municipality pays the bill because they
ones that contract the engineer out. You have the power.
I think its even in the MPC. The secretary will send him
a copy, does Todd Bowser still live in Yoe? Councilman
Noll said they should forward it.
? Councilman Crull said I have a question on that block
grant money once we used that, are we going to be allowed
to rent it out. Councilman Snyder said yes. Councilman
Crull asked are you sure? I thought we use their money,
we aren’t allowed to. Councilman Snyder said no one
ever said anything to me. Councilman Crull said just
like the basketball and tennis courts, at that time Gail
would have been there, they said for a ten year period,
there would be no way of keeping any one out of it.
Whenever they want to use it, they could use it, day
or night. So it would be pretty tough. Councilman
Myers said I never hard anything on that. Councilman
Crull said I don’t know if anyone thought about that.
Councilman Noll said as long as we still have municipal
law that says the park closes at dusk. There are regulations,
we should be okay, that’s a secure building.
Contract Councilman Snyder said we still have to take care of the
Codification codification because we wanted to wait until she got back
in order to sign back. The secretary said I don’t know
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 59
which one is right. A motion to sign the agreement with
Keystone Publisher by Councilman Allar. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said tell them, when they get here
we’ll sign it, I will be here when they come down.
The secretary said this the what we have so far for
changes in this folder. Councilman Snyder said as
a reminder to council, the clock’s ticking we want to
get codification changes in, we have manila folder,
I know Dan has sent some, we already talked about the
one for property maintenance inspection. Any other
changes now is the time to get them in so we don’t
pay any extra advertisement and such. Councilman
Noll said on anything? Councilman Snyder said
anything. Councilman Noll said there is a typo in there,
it says be no less that 35% of the lot, it needs changed.
Councilman Allar said anything from Dan? Councilman
Snyder said he has submitted three. The secretary said
I only have one of his, its in the folder. Councilman
Snyder said he said he was going to get another one.
The secretary said anything from him was forwarded
to Councilman Snyder. Councilman Snyder said I
had him look into one about junk on porches for
around here. Look, take my neighbors as an example,
they have garbage bags sitting out there, they’ve got
two sofas sitting out there but what’s it, its never
gone out for large trash pickup so I’m assuming they
want it but that’s not an acceptable looking what
the image we want to present. He said well one man’s junk is another man’s treasure so he’s going to have to
look around and see if he can find some model
ordinance addressing inappropriate items for front
porches. Councilman Allar asked about the bushes
up there? Councilman Snyder said he has to mow,
but there’s no way to get him to trim his bushes,
but eventually if it goes over the sidewalk then we
can. Last year I trimmed it myself, they were touching
my house. I know, just live with it.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 60
Audit Councilman Snyder said we only got proposals. The
Proposals secretary said one additional. Councilman Snyder
said one additional to SEK, which was Stambaugh
Ness. The secretary said that was copied and included
with the minutes of the last council meeting packet.
Councilman Snyder said did everyone have an
opportunity to look over them? Any discussion or?
Stambaugh and Ness is submitting the following for
audit proposal: $5750 for 2008, $6095 for 2009 and
$6400 for 2010. SEK which, only gave, a quote for
2008 which will range from $6950 to $7450. So.
Councilman Snyder said you can’t compare the
other years. Councilman Noll said if you compare
the first years, Stambaugh Ness is less. The secretary
said they charge you so much an hour for Quick Books.
They do have Quick Books available. Councilman
Snyder said they will charge at a rate of $105.00 per
hour plus any other out of pocket expense. Right now
she doesn’t get billed for Quick Books help via phone
from SEK. Personally, I liked the service we got
from SEK, when we were in between auditors, they
were very accommodating. Councilman Noll said
they are very good, I’ve served on boards that use
them, that is Stambaugh Ness. The secretary said
their quote is cheaper and that way you would have
a controlled expense for three years. I did ask
why SEK went up so much, she said there has
been new standard rules for accounting and that’s
the reason why. Councilman Snyder said and you
don’t know that maybe Stambaugh is low balling it
to try to get their foot in their door. The secretary
said they called, Stambaugh Ness about the quotes
on Monday. Councilman Snyder said we would be
paying more if something ever happened and Sandy
couldn’t be here. Councilman Myers asked what
was there price again? Councilman Snyder said it
$5750 for the first year and $6400 for 2010. And
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 61
SEK was $6950, would range between $6950 and $7450.00.
So its roughly $1200.00. The secretary said I sent twelve
letters out, I got three rejections and three phone calls.
Councilman Snyder asked do you know how long we’ve
had SEK? The secretary said since I’ve been here, I don’t
know how far before. Councilman Snyder asked who did
we have when you left? The secretary said Beard and Miller.
Beard and Miller had sent a rejection letter. Councilman
Snyder said I was just wondering how long we had them
because I know its good financial practice to change auditors.
So you just have a different set of eyes looking at the books.
Councilman Allar said well then its about time, don’t you
think? Councilman Snyder said I don’t have a problem with
changing. The secretary said I think price wise you should
go with Stambaugh and Ness. Councilman Snyder said
understand, we’ll need a motion to accept their fee
proposal, not until the end of the year, according to state
law we have to appoint them by resolution. But we can
accept the contract. A motion was made by Councilman
Allar to accept the contract with Stambaugh Ness for
a three year period, 2008, 2009 and 2010. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Speech Councilman Allar asked if you ever got with Red Lion
Recognition on the software? The secretary said I got a phone call
from Quality Copy and I have speech on my windows.
So I have to go out to Staples to get a microphone, I don’t see any sense of paying for more software. Quality
Technology was very helpful. They don’t have that
software, I’m am going to be using windows software.
I have it on my computer. I have to get a head phone
set, so when I ‘m doing that, it has be totally quiet, so
I’m going to have to put a sign up to say please be
quiet, because it picks up even telephone calls.
Thank you Councilman Allar said I wanted to thank Sandy for
helping to get that DCED grant. I think during Christmas
Secretary’s Report(cont.0 Page 62
it was a very crunch time. $25,000.00 that is about two
and half times the normal. I think it would be a great
idea Sam, to write a thank you to Mike Waugh. The
secretary asked with the DCNR grant and with this
grant, do we have to expend the money before we
get the money back? Or do they give us the money
and we keep track of it? With the CDBG grant, they
fill out certain things, then I have to sign and then
they take care of paying them. Councilman Snyder
said have you heard? Councilman Allar said the
one from DCED I doubt if you do. You spend the
money and send the bills in. Councilman Snyder
said I think that is the way then that DCNR will
work. CDBG, they will pay them. The secretary
asked can I send the bills in as I expend them or
do I have to take the money out of wherever I can
find it to pay and then send them all together.
Councilman Myers said I think you can probably
send them all together, they don’t like to see any
of those petty ones. They want to see. Councilman
Snyder said we may at that time, lets face it we’re
going to have this money coming in and going out.
We can direct the treasurer to say, now you can
use our squat fund money, that rainy day fund, to
pull it out there when you need to and put it back
in there. The secretary said I just want to see where
I’m going to be at, so I’m not going to have $95,000.00
to work with. Councilman Allar said when I talked to
them I was only going for $15,000.00 it was very
surprising that we got $25,000.00. Councilman
Snyder said I was really surprised about that too.
I know what he said, because he only has the
so much money to spend in his district. They probably
cut it because at that time when I was going for the
Explorers he was getting $160,000.00 that has
to go for the entire district so he doesn’t like to
spend more than $10,000.00. So its like, shocked
me. Councilman Allar said you don’t know how
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 63
significant that is. Councilman Snyder said that was
a big chunk
? to Sandy Councilman Myers asked how comes the minutes are
like this. The secretary said I had trouble with the
software for that with my computer and I didn’t go back
and fix it. I’ll try to work on that, it went nuts that
Plaque Councilman Snyder said I did submit, well its actually
in bills, as we’re talking about this with the grants and
stuff, we did, I picked up the plaque for Kinsely,
yesterday. I have the citation already drawn up, except
for a date. Now it took two and half weeks to get that
in, anytime you’re ready, try to set something up
between John, whoever you need to in there basically
and then we’ll. Councilman Noll said I’ll find out
when we can get a large group together. Councilman
Snyder said find out about the kids however you think
it would get us the best bag for the buck in there,
If they want to have it with him, himself, or if he
wants to have it in front of the education center,
wherever they want it, we’ll accommodate them,
we’ll get that citation basically a thank you. In
essence it was a plaque, spoke with John and
we kicked a couple things around as far as what
a good way to make an impression Kinsley. As
you were pointing out we’d like to try to get them back.
The more that they can do on gratis, the more the money
goes. We suggested on a plaque and reads, this building
renovation completed by Kinsley Education Center through
the donation of Kinsley of Construction, Inc. Then the
citation is going to be a citation from council, thanking
them, and recognizing the approximate amount that they
contributed, what it was for, type of work that it was used
for, who did it, the education center, and then that we are
officially recognized them with a citation in perpetuity
putting this plaque up in the building in recognition of the
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 64
work which help make the grant possible. That’s what
we came up with. So now we have the plaque, so now all
we have to do is get a time. Councilman Noll said I’ll
ask Dave and get a time to accommodate. Councilman
Snyder said just keep us posted now and give us a couple
days notice. I guess check with John, to get a couple
days notice, I don’t know what his schedule is. Otherwise
I’ll get him to sign it but as soon as I get a date to put on
it then I print out the final copy.
W/C Councilman Snyder said we did get an endorsement
amendment from Kocman Insurance amending the workmen’s
compensation for the borough which generated a return of
$1442.00. The secretary said the temporary help is still
Day Councilman Snyder said we did get a list of activities and
Camp schedule of events at the summer day camp. For the most
part it has been going over well as far as kid participation.
On average, Dana said they are averaging about 100 kids
a day up there. Which is amazing. We do have some issues
of which they are going to be talked about tomorrow at
meeting with Amy Myers. Evidently there have been some
problems that it hasn’t been cleaned up as well as what Gail
thought it should be for the rentals. So I think its something
that needs pointed out to them, its not going to be a big deal.
One thing that I am concerned about, and I thought was the
biggest issue, Gail had left, and I’m not saying it’s the day
campers, but as much as Gail and where she left her garbage
bags. But I’m not sure, I’m going to find this out tomorrow,
the kids have full access to that refrigerator to get their
lunches and drinks but there was a roll of plastic bags, garbage
bags, up on top of refrigerator because of someone slamming
and opening the door, it rolled off and unto the back and melted
unto the coils. So we want to make sure, that kind of thing
doesn’t happen because we don’t want the place burning down.
I said its probably a bad place. The secretary said they took
the bags out of the box that was on top of the refrigerator.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 65
I’m not sure really sure Tom, Gail will be here tomorrow
for a meeting. Councilman Snyder said all I heard about
was that it was stuff about clean up. The secretary said
its things she walked into. Councilman Myers said if
we have pay someone to clean it up. The secretary said
you are not charging them anything for use of the park
by the agreement. Councilman Snyder said basically,
we would let them know what are costs are, after the
fact, and we’ll see. Its all getting tallied up,just like this
extra time. The secretary said Dana hasn’t had time.
Councilman Allar said he shouldn’t have too. The secretary
said were several concerns, she was very calm but we
will address them tomorrow. Councilman Snyder said
we’ll find out and address them. The secretary said the
ladies auxiliary is going to be in that building tomorrow
night. They have to have that building back to the way
it was on Monday. People are using that building at night
Comp Councilman Allar said under the comp plan, we sent out and
Plan and got twelve responses for qualifications. And we had a
marathon meeting and narrowed it down to four. Out of the
four, including the response to the RFP, to see who we
are looking for, sometime next week. You and Seth can
come in next week, Tuesday or Wednesday to get together.
Councilman Snyder said I can’t because I have doctor’s
appointments. Councilman Allar said this would be next week.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying , I’m in that
cycle, I’ve got to check to see what appointments I have
next week. Councilman Allar said give me a call tomorrow.
Then they’re going to send in a proposal with the monies. Then
we’re going to interview all four. Again it might be good idea,
that you guys are there, very important documents. You have
to pick the right contract, that’s the thing. Rettew has come in,
the other three have to be contacted. Councilman Allar said
should I set up a time or are you going to call me. Councilman
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 66
Snyder said go ahead and set up a time for everybody else,
I’ll check my calendar and I’ll get back to you and say whether
I can make it. Councilman Allar asked if any time is better for
Seth, lunchtime? Councilman Noll said around lunchtime.
Councilman Snyder asked where is that going to be held.
Councilman Allar said here.
Long Range Councilman Snyder said I did have, what I’m under the
Transp. impression was my last long range transportation task force
Task meeting. In a nutshell, we made our recommendations to the
Force county and we’ll see how, we haven’t got the final draft back
yet of what we said our criteria is for capacity. As you recall
I was on the capacity committee. As far as, capacity, I’ll leave
this here for the borough. They got the funding down until
the year 2035, they broke it down to transit safety, capacity,
maintenance, bridge enhancements, aviation, rail and security.
Capacity, which is what I was on got $296,270,352.00. And
that has to last until 2035. Which amounted to 16-20% of
the overall long range budget. When I get the final draft of
the criteria of what would be acceptable projects, I’ll present
that to council and then my job is done on capacity. I think
John was on another one, I think bridges or something. And
that’s all I had.
CDBG Councilman Snyder said these are copies of letters for the
Letters CDBG funding. All those letters, Tom that were brought up
at last month’s meeting, I guess you got the copies all done
up. That’s all if have for old. Anything else for old business.
There was no new business.
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder said we have two additional bills to be
added to the bill list: T & J Trophies at $61,82, that was for
plaque that we just discussed and Jerry Pickel $60.00.
Payment of Bills(cont.) Page 67
A motion was made by Councilman Crull to pay the bills
as listed with the addition of the two mentioned bills. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said bills paid.
A motion was made by Councilman Crull to adjourn the
meeting at 10:17PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Snyder. All in favor.