150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313 PG.1
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on
June 3, 2008 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple St.,
Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Vice President of Council,
Barry Myers at 7PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Members in attendance: Barry Myers
Seth Noll(left at 9:45PM)
Others in attendance: Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
John Sanford, Mayor(arrived at 8:50PM)
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Connie Crull, Tax Collector
Todd Bowser, 105-107 E. Penna. Ave.
Councilman Myers welcomed Councilman Crull back. Good to see you. Councilman Crull said I want to thank you for the planter and for the
cards I got. I appreciate that.
Councilman Myers asked if everyone reviewed the minutes. A motion
to approve the council minutes of May 6, 2008 as presented was made
by Councilman Allar. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett.
All in favor.
Mr. Bowser said Jason, I have some revised drawings. Mr. Reichard said
put them out so they can see them on each end. Mr. Bowser said there are
one and two. As you recall I stopped in, in May. I have an existing parcel
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of property on E. Pennsylvania Avenue, its 105 and 107. It has an
existing duplex on it. I’m looking at subdividing that property. I came
in last month with basically a preliminary plan. I met with the county. I can’t file for subdivision with the county until I had two different things taken
care of. The first one was zoning variances. You’ll notice on the cover sheet of this one, there were three variances that were requested after the last
council meeting. All three of those variances, were granted at the zoning
hearing board on May 22. Those zoning variances related to lot size, lot
width and side setbacks. Which of course on a duplex, you have a zero
side setback on your common wall. The next step after that was a review
with Jason. Jason did do a review. I did received that review, its dated
May 29th. I’m sure you have a copy as well. Between his schedule and mine,
it took both a little time to get back. I did send the response. Jason, did you
get that through email late yesterday? Mr. Reichard said I did make a copy
for here tonight. Mr. Bowser said I did send that back, Jason did catch some
errors on the original plan, things that coincide with what the county requires
on the plan. That was a positive thing as well. There were some other items
on there, that I questioned. As we were going through. So I didn’t know if
this was the proper forum for that discussion or if that was something that was carried on, outside the council meeting. I believe one of the easiest things, that occurred on this project, because of the building that is on this
parcel, is brand new. That it sometimes gets confusing as to as to existing
conditions versus new. However the duplex that exists out there, was applied
for and approved August 20th of last year by the, then zoning officer, Officer
Dick Baade. From zoning it then went to Code Administrators, at Code
Administrators, they issued a building permit based upon those comments.
And that building has been completed and has all the final inspections as
well. So this is just another step, after that has occurred. Mr. Reichard
asked does anyone have any initial questions on the plan, based on?
Councilman Allar said I don’t know if everyone got a copy, I saw this one
in the reader’s file. The secretary said the documentation didn’t come in until Monday so it did not go out with the minutes. Mr. Bowser said Jason,
on the right of way, we actually did a little more off of some surveys that
have been done. As you recall, last month, the gentleman that lives in the
adjoining parcels, Dave Naylor was here. Talking about the adopted alley way. That separates two properties. He has had some survey work done.
So that survey work has been included in some of the information. Interesting enough Jason, you’re right, the right of ways, the back face of
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that sidewalk that is there. However the survey, right of way line is a matter of inches off, the back face of the sidewalk. You’ll notice it on this plan, I did adjust,what that does, that does encroach into the parcel. One of the challenges was finding a valid right of way for E. Pennsylvania Avenue.
Mr. Reichard said I’m not sure what the surveyor did there, but in terms of
adopted ordinance that I referenced back to sidewalks, from our view point, its pushing it so, for the right of way for the borough. Mr. Bowser said so
it’s a couple inches closer to the residents only because its encroaching on
me but not on you. Actually gained a little bit more on the right of way.
Mr. Reichard said if there aren’t any initial questions on it, what we can do
is, basically he’s looking for an approval from council. The only thing that
they have to go on, is my letter. We can run down through that. The first
four comments have been addressed since our original letter. The first one is
dealing with the right of way, which we just spoke about. The second one was a variance, which has already been approved. The third deals with the
front set back, actually the third and fourth, front set back, there was another
section of the ordinance that I reviewed and there actually in the clear with
that. So that’s been addressed. Number five, however, I believe is still an
issue. Mr. Bowser asked can we talk about number five? Mr. Reichard said
sure. Mr. Bowser said by my admission, also in my reply here a little bit.
That was, I’m not going to hide from anything. That was a miss on not only
on Mr. Baade’s part but also on our behalf. You’ll notice, I don’t know you
have a copy of my original letter to him at the time of the zoning. But what
we did was, we claimed we’re 26. 4 feet, we’re below. Is council aware of the fact that the building height in Yoe is measured from the basement
floor? I wanted to point that out. Councilman Myers said we are now.
Mr. Bowser said I wanted to point that out because that you realize that
its impossible to build a two story house in Yoe but yet there are some
right there. Its odd. Building height gets subgrade, is strained. I would have
expected Jason, the rule of thumb, on a fall away lot the average between
the two would go through. Which is what we looked at. I don’t know how you wish to address that, I mean I now currently have a house that was
built, two story plus a roof but I have a basement that as my plan does show,
the construction documents that were submitted in the zoning application.
I’m eight feet eleven inches below grade. According the ordinance here,
we weren’t aware, we didn’t read the definition, I’ve never seen it before.
But comes from basement up. Councilman Noll asked is it normal procedure in the code, to measure, unless more than fifty percent of the basement is
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exposed is not considered to measure from grade up? Mr. Reichard said
that may be code, I’m not familiar with that, referencing the borough
zoning ordinance, it is a violation regardless of what the permit was
issued for, the plan is before us, technically that requires a variance
in order to be relieved of that requirement. If the zoning officer was here,
might be additional comment on that. That’s been my experience with municipalities through the years, so that in my mind is going to be
enough to comment about. You may have something to say about it. Solicitor Solymos said yeah, I have a good bit, but I think we have save on that until executive session. Mr. Bowser said the only request, if council
feels I have to go back for another variance, being there is culbribility on both sides, after all this zoning issue permit and building application possibility of waiving the $400.00 fee for that variance hearing. It would be perfunctory as you can imagine, it will be a walk in and out, just to structure. Something for your consideration as we go forward. Mr. Reichard said we’ll leave this as outstanding for the time being. Number six, actually, did you
add this? Mr. Bowser said that is on the cover page on the right hand side, site data. Mr. Reichard said six, we can mark off. Number seven deals with section 203.9 of the zoning ordinance which requires paved areas be limited to 15% of a lot area. And in this case, based on my calculations, the paved
area exceeds 15% of the lot area. Which also would require a variance. There was a variance secured for the lot area itself and not for the percent of the paving on that site. Once again is another issue. Your response to number 8, you did as. Mr. Bowser said water enters from the front. Mr. Reichard said so eight has been addressed. So, so far on the first page, we just have five and seven. Number nine, deals with requirement for two
parking spaces. I didn’t quite understand what you were saying with your response, that there was garage that was inadvertently omitted from the plan.
Mr. Bowser said what occurred is on the original zoning, the original approval there was actually a garage at the rear of the property which
provided two additional off street parking places. Then when the management brought that plan together they inadvertently removed it,
and I didn’t catch it. So when you review came, I do have the two
parking spaces but the challenge is, I have two parcels so two car
garage is no longer valid anyway. So what I did, on that plan, for
your review, post this meeting, was the addition of some covered
area. And your ordinance does go into detail on how the spaces have
to laid out so maybe we now have some additional paving there, which
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would be adequate. I think that. Councilman Noll said so you’re
saying there is a garage? Mr. Reichard said there is a garage. Mr. Bowser
said there is not one now, there use to be one that was located back here.
The suspicion at the time, because it’s a single parcel of ground that way,
additional parking places would be within the parcel. Councilman Noll
asked that has since then been removed? Mr. Bowser said that is
correct. Councilman Allar said so you have two on, two off? Mr. Bowser
said actually they don’t count. There are garages in the basement of
each of these. There are one, two and then the proposed three, four. I am not permitted to use the cart way or the driveway for additional parking place, if I read the ordinance properly. Councilman Noll asked is the paving calculation coverage take in to account the proposed? Mr. Bowser said no, Jason would not however since I knew he was going to be requiring additional information at this point, didn’t put it on there. Councilman Noll asked it would increase? Mr. Bowser said it would increase, that is correct.
Councilman Noll asked so comment nine is still open as a variance item , so they have the paving to begin with? Mr. Bowser said I was just looking for
the space, it simply says 200 square feet. Mr. Reichard said yeah, some of them say not back to back, things of that nature. Number ten, we can talk about that a little bit too. Basically it is set up to, section 304.4 is set up to prohibit motorists from backing out on, unto a public right of way. It is up to council. Originally when we looked at it, there wouldn’t have been an option to get out of this driveway and on to East Clark Alley without crossing a
property line, turn around. I ask your opinion if you feel its satisfactory with additional paving, to serve as a turnaround of this condition. As you recall up on Yoe Drive, what we did up there, was actually have a little bump
out where you back into to pull forward out into the alley. So that. Its
open for discussion. Mr. Bowser said one note, its later in my response that this parcel does have it contained with it, it will filed with a common maintenance agreement. It’s a common drive for the two parcels. Councilman Myers said so that is something in the comments at the time
of the legal description. Solicitor Solymos said that is something that
should be included on the final approved plan. Mr. Reichard said that
is true. Councilman Noll asked you can explain this more, when you say
back out unto, see where they’re backing over public property? Mr. Reichard
said the public alley is East Clark Alley. And most instances you’re going to pull off a public street into your property. What I envisioned is a car sitting
in this ten foot wide driveway and then backing out on to East Clark Street.
Public Hearing for Ordinance 2008-01 at 7:15PM Pg.6
Councilman Myers said the first ordinance is the curfew ordinance.
If I’m correct Pete, that’s the one that matched. Solicitor Solymos said
all we have done is gone from 12AM to 11PM, that’s the only change
we’ve done. Councilman Myers asked does everyone understand that?
A motion to adopt Ordinance 2008-01 was made by Councilman Allar.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Mr. Reichard said we are on number 10. Any questions from council
on this? Councilman Allar said I made an issue about Yoe Drive because
there was no line of site when cars come down that hill at a high rate
of speed. I wasn’t so much concerned about the wording as to its
safety. I’m not sure how the traffic is out there. Anyone else uses
that road? Councilman Noll asked is East Clark Alley adopted?
Mr. Reichard said yes. Councilman Noll said would that also
need a variance? Mr. Reichard said well it would, unless you
decide based on the proposal, and the cross easement between
the two properties, the maintenance of the driveways. As long
as there is a provision there to allow for, turning movements,
what have you. I think its adequate. Councilman Noll asked is
it your opinion that they would have enough area to turn
around? Mr. Reichard said yes, definitely. Councilman Myers
asked how wide is the alley? Mr. Bowser said fifteen, plus or
minus. Councilman Myers asked Pete, how do we, you say
its not a problem, how do we does that affect for the future?
Solicitor Solymos said it doesn’t set any precedence, this is
something you have in existence, you provide some assistance,
I think it should be noted on the plan. Councilman Myers said
alright. Mr. Bowser said but doesn’t it considered, because
obviously notes of that type appear on the cover page as for
the county. So is that a note, that would appear on a heading
on the cover page? Solicitor Solymos said I would, if you
have seventeen or eighteen on the cover page that would be fine.
Councilman Noll asked should the cross easement be noted,
in that note? Solicitor Solymos said yes. Councilman Noll said
no matter what we said, it should be noted. Solicitor Solymos
said it would be nice if we would see the agreement too. Cross
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easements should be noted in a recordable form at the court
house. Mr. Bowser said can’t do any recording yet. Mr. Reichard
said I am going to leave that one outstanding for the time being
until we have the note and the cross easement agreement in place.
Number 11 is good now. Step 12, Section 306.1, zoning ordinance
requires driveways to be twelve feet wide and ten feet of the
right of way. And proposing a ten foot drive, at the property line.
Its affectively a five foot wide driveway along a property line.
It looks like you did fanned that out to approximately six feet.
Mr. Bowser said per property line, that is correct. Mr. Reichard
said each property is to be served with a twelve foot driveway.
As I interrupt the ordinance, that also would be a violation.
Mr. Bowser said again with the maintenance agreement of a common drive.
Mr. Reichard said in this case, its pretty clear in the zoning
ordinance that its twelve foot wide per. Councilman Noll said then a variance would need to be brought up to stay with the agreement would
serve as a way to satisfy the zoning hearing board. Solicitor Solymos said from what I see, the concerns the drive a width of five feet, jointly hold,
can the drive ten feet wide as opposed to twelve? Mr. Bowser said its
twelve only within the last ten feet of the property line, its ten feet for the
balance of the drive. Solicitor Solymos asked the zoning ordinance reduces
it to ten feet? Mr. Reichard said it doesn’t reduce it, it just says within
that first ten feet it has to be twelve foot wide. Solicitor Solymos said so
after that it doesn’t have a? Mr. Reichard said a requirement, yeah. Okay.
Thirteen, do you, in your response you did add that? Mr. Bowser said a little cloudy on that. Is a property corner, any corner of a property. Is it a corner
of an intersecting corner of a street, that is how I read it. So the plan, does
now reflect one site triangle. Its kind of funny to put it on there, because
the alley way is not constructed. But that’s the only possible intersection I had. Mr. Reichard said it would be on the edge of right of way. There is a descriptive detail in the zoning ordinance, it shows the right of way with a
dash line which would be coming down Charles Alley and E. Penna. Ave.
Then it would be 25 feet down , each leg of that right of way and that’s
suppose to be a clear right of way. Mr. Bowser asked so it would at that
unopened alley way? Mr. Reichard said right. Everyone understand that one? Councilman Noll said so you are saying the condition doesn’t exist now? Or just needs to be noted on the plan? Mr. Reichard said it needs
to be noted, but actually the structure has become in violation and its clear
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that site triangle, this dash line and the right of way line, here, is 25 foot in
direction would be clear site. Mr. Bowser said, you’re saying the corner of the house falls within that? Councilman Myers asked what are you saying,
the building is blocking what? Mr. Reichard said see what the ordinance
requires, a 25 foot along two right of way lines to form a triangle. Its
still an adopted area. Its just not open, in terms of cart way. Councilman
Myers said so you’re neighbor is going to? Mr. Bowser said he came
last month, to talk about an official borough abandonment. Councilman
Myers said we’re not going to do nothing with it. Mr. Reichard said
right, however its. Solicitor Solymos said that was officially vacated
by ordinance if you’re going to get rid of it. Mr. Bowser said in a unfortunate way I am running three months ahead of him. Councilman
Allar asked Jason, if the original set back of 25 feet is met, this wouldn’t be an issue? Mr. Reichard said right. Mr. Bowser said clarification, there is
no 25 foot set back on this property. The ordinance has a modification in
section 4, which clearly states that if the properties on a neighboring
side of 100 feet, violate the 25 foot setback, you can take an average of
the lesser two. This is actually not in a violation as it situated as per
modification, 401. Mr. Reichard said that’s correct. The front set
back is fine. There’s my comments on three and four and I overlooked
that one section. Councilman Noll said its not a front set back issue, its
site. Mr. Reichard said he’s commenting on two different things. Councilman Myers said I thought it was a site issue. Mr. Reichard said it’s a site issue, he mentioned about the front set back, the front set back is okay, its clear site triangle that we’re talking about now. If it was set back, 25
feet it would automatically be okay. Councilman Noll said I think you
find out with a lot of ordinances, you have to use more than one section
for the meaning, it just okay in one end, doesn’t mean its okay on ours.
Mr. Bowser said obviously what it indicates, there is a modification that permits a setback of less than twenty five feet, there should be a related
modification that then changes requirement of a site triangle, but then by default allowing within 25 feet, eliminates a 25 foot. Also of interesting notes, if I may, Dan Shaw, who is also the zoning officer for Red Lion. In Red Lion, there is no requirement of any zoning when you take a duplex and you divide it like this, it is an understood thing that its going to violate
a litany of zoning requirements. In Red Lion, I would have filled a form
out and walked out with my zoning approval by en facto. In Spring Garden
Township, also does the same thing. Solicitor Solymos said in Dallastown
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you would have gone for the variances, granted any number of variances
for just what you’re doing. Mr. Bowser said its just interesting how its
handled, in nature of what it is, so. Councilman Allar said we just don’t have a lot of subdivision. Councilman Noll said that’s why each municipality is different and set up with state rules. Mr. Reichard said number fourteen, I actually have a typo. It should be referencing section 405, as opposed to 404.
In section 405, basically says, that division of any lot shall not occur unless
all provisions of this ordinance are satisfied. It’s a kind of, coverall, basic
with situation that we have with variances and so on. That’s more of a
technically at this point. It is in the ordinance and needs to be addressed.
Number fifteen, well actually number fifteen and seventeen, both deal with storm water. The Storm Water Management Ordinance, requires, and sixteen with the grading. Storm Water Management Ordinance is in place and the applicability of this ordinance is effect for, for this criteria, one being
subdivision. Under section 104.B, so in this case, we are looking for water quality and storm water recharge measures to be satifisfied. Mr. Bowser asked even though that subdivision results in zero construction? Mr. Reichard said its subdivision. You would have request a waiver of that
which is to be. Mr. Bowser said just for clarification, if Barry wanted to
subdivide his house, which is how old? He has to do the storm water
control and he has to do water quality measures. Mr. Reichard said yes.
He can request a waiver of that. Mr. Bowser said that’s what I was trying to get at, which part of that ordinance permits a waiver. Mr. Reichard said
it permits a waiver at the discretion of the borough council and borough
engineer for approval. There is a list of factors that need to be taken into consideration. Mr. Bowser said we tried to get that, and was unsuccessful.
Mr. Reichard said there should be one here at the borough. The secretary said there is a copy of that here at the borough, yes. Mr. Reichard said you use to serve on council so you know what the borough’s major concern was
on storm water and especially with Mill Creek and all the work that has been done. I can’t imagine they would want to waive any requirements knowing storm water run off. I see those as outstanding comments also. Councilman Allar said but again there’s no change in the building or the ground, cultivation, any of that. Mr. Bowser said then I would rather address just the
additional paving on the entire parcel. Councilman Myers said the water issue, why wasn’t the water issue address while it was being built. Mr. Reichard said it should have been. Solicitor Solymos said, gentleman I have
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answers for you, that you could think about, but then I would request
an executive session and ask Todd to step outside for a moment. I won’t take up any length of your time but I explain some of the things.
Public Hearing at 7:38PM for Ordinance 2008-02
Councilman Myers said this ordinance, Pete can you review this. Solicitor
Solymos asked is this the zoning. Councilman Myers said yes. Solicitor
Solymos said there have been numerous changes to the zoning ordinance
proposed. Its been submitted to York County Planning. Your Borough
Council President is right now in front of the planning commission. Let me see if I can best narrow this down. I am recommending that since York
County Planning has issued their comments, and there are significant
comments to be addressed. And since Sam has addressed many of those comments after discussing this matter with Jason deeply. And he has already spoke to Randy Beck. And I’m advised with regard to Randy Beck, that
Randy understands a great deal, the things he is raising. And maybe their planning staff would be willing to go along with certain things, but there still are things outstanding. It is my recommendation that we table the adoption the ordinance at least until next regular meeting so that we can get the feed back from Sam as to what York County Planning is now saying. Have Sam work with Jason on those issues and then submit a new plan with modifications that are legitimate and have to be made. And proceed from there. So that is my recommendation, its been advertised. That we table it for now. We will be re-advertising. Unfortunately because of a case called Kennedy, it seems like any modification to the point of changing a m to an I, is shipped back to York County Planning for their review and comments. You can’t like we use to do, if York County Planning had a recommendation and you adopted their recommendation verbatim. You didn’t have to re advertise it. So if there is going to be some expensed involved to change it but hopefully with Sam down there tonight, meeting with Randy and meeting with the planning commission, itself, we’ll get clarification. Understand that, it would be nice if we could get close to what they’re thinking of, but the bottom line is they’re a recommending body. You may review their recommendations, take their recommendations into account and reject them if you so choose. Its always better to, these guys are your
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professional planners so. We have an advertised ordinance. It would be my recommendation that it would be enforced. Councilman Allar said I agree with you, when its all said and done, we feel we need this for protection. Solicitor Solymos said as for the protection issues, I think Sam that. I don’t know if he got back to you on that or not. Based on what he relayed to me with his conversation with Randy Beck this afternoon. Randy Beck understands where he’s coming from. One of the York County, one of their big things is, everyone else is forty feet, why are you going to sixty?
Sam has an national code, that isn’t this code but is another national code, that uses sixty. You probably found that for him. York County Planning knows why you are doing it folks. Understands the sixty feet and the logic.
I’ll leave it at that. Councilman Allar said I have no problem with that. Solicitor Solymos said so my recommendation is table to get the further comments and review from Sam. Councilman Noll said by tabling it, if someone would come with a plan tomorrow, they may. Solicitor Solymos said it may be enforced it has been advertised. Now what will happen we will have to have a re advertisement. The secretary asked so a copy of that will go to the zoning officer tomorrow? Solicitor Solymos said absolutely.
Councilman Myers said we are going to table it, however it still becomes an ordinance? Solicitor Solymos said its not an ordinance but its enforceable. We have something in the state of Pennsylvania called the pending ordinance law, and under the Municipality Planning Code, in zoning, not subdivision and land development, but in zoning, when you duly advertise an amendment of the zoning ordinance. You may start enforcing one, even though you haven’t formally adopted it. This avoids the rush to file before.
You they say, you have an adopted ordinance, they you have seven thousand plans appear. The secretary asked should I keep the number as 02 or move the other one up? Solicitor Solymos said keep the number as 02 for now. We make changes we go to 03. Jason would make the changes. Councilman Myers said I don’t recall this happening, at least for a long time, where we advertised something and had an issue. Is there a procedure here. We just paid a newspaper to advertise it twice. It costs a couple of bucks. Now we are going to pay a couple bucks a month or two from now to do the same thing again. Solicitor Solymos said unfortunately yes. But it must be advertised. Councilman Myers said did we do something wrong, should we wait until York County Planning gets done, and then we advertise this. Councilman Allar said with something with this complexity, we probably should sent it to them and asked for their comments before it went out
Public Hearing for Ord. 2008-02(cont.) Page 12
to the newspapers. Solicitor Solymos said they’d probably would have
given you an informal review, but they wouldn’t given you comments.
The code requires you to, once you advertise an ordinance, to submit it to the planning agency within thirty days of the proposed adoption. Councilman Allar said I meant their informal comments which would probably 99% of any of what we are talking about. Then it just would have gone out, in one time. Councilman Noll said I guess the other thing, the flip side of that, by spending that money and advertising, we now have a pending ordinance to enforce. We’re paying a couple bucks. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to table ordinance 2008-02 until we hear from Sam about the results of his meeting with York County Planning. The motion was seconded by Councilman Crull. All in favor.
Councilman Myers said now we’re back to Mr. Bowser and now we’re
going into executive session.
Executive Session at 7:40PM
A motion was made by Councilman Noll at 7:40PM to go into executive session. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Myers said we returned out of executive session at 8PM.
Public Hearing for Ordinance 2008-03 at 8PM
Councilman Myers asked, Pete can you give us details on that. Solicitor Solymos said this is the intermunicipal cooperation ordinance authorizing us
to enter into an agreement with Dallastown Borough and Red Lion Borough in cooperation to purse a comprehensive plan for the three municipalities.
This is the first step in moving into that direction. Councilman Myers asked does anyone have any questions on that, everyone understand that?
Councilman Allar said everyone has seen it, a copy. It’s a very basic document. I have actually five other documents to get to later to follow on this particular subject once the ordinance is passed. If you don’t have a
Public Hearing for Ordinance 2008-3 at 8PM (cont.) Page 13
municipal plan, a comprehensive plan, its getting tougher and tougher to get grants. I was lucky with DCNR with that one grant. But everytime now you submit, they going to say, is it in accordance with your comprehensive plan.
So its probably one of the most important kind of documents. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to adopt Ordinance 2008-03. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. The secretary asked if Councilman Allar would like copies of this ordinance to take to Dallastown and Red Lion? Councilman Allar said we’re probably going to have a whole bunch of things, that all the municipalities should share. What we do, we should share. The secretary said okay. Councilman Allar said don’t send this one out until we go over a couple of others.
Councilman Myers said okay, Todd. Sorry for all the interruptions. Mr. Bowser said sure I understand. Councilman Myers said I think what we’re going to do Todd, since there is are so many different variances on here. I think we’re not going to act. We’re not going to act on it this month but go back and review it. With all the variances you have, let our solicitor and engineer review it as well. Mr. Bowser said so don’t need to pursue those variances in the interim. The reason I ask that question, that Jason can appreciate, time is always of the essence when I’m moving through this. Its interesting the county’s meetings are on the same night as this. Which any work in Yoe is kind of challenge because you can’t do both places and running through this. Mr. Reichard said we want to basically. Council is going to officially table the plan. I think we’re going to hear a motion to table the plan because of the required variances. These are variances that have to be relieved by the zoning hearing board so. Mr. Bowser said so I can pursue the variances in the interim. Councilman Myers said right. Mr. Bowser said because I have thirty days for the zoning hearing. If I apply for it tomorrow. Solicitor Solymos said if you apply for it tomorrow, they’re going to need at least few weeks to get an ad in. No more than thirty, no less than seven days. Mr. Reichard said keep in mind you have a ninety day window to approve this plan unless you write a letter to the borough waiving that requirement under Municipalities Planning Code. If we get to the point next month and we see that its going to go beyond ninety days to take
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action or deny it, and the variances aren’t approved in addition to. Mr. Bowser said in condition that the waiver falls under. Mr. Reichard said just
to write to them and say we will waive ninety days, to offer them an extension for that period. Its going to be close, I didn’t run the numbers but you’ve got to watch that bottom. If you have them approved by the next
meeting and you come in, we’re in good shape. If its not approved
then its another month. The secretary said the next meeting is twenty eight days from today, July 1. Mr. Bowser said based upon the meeting, Jason, will you be returning, an update on that review so what I’m pursuing matches what the council has said. Mr. Reichard said I can tell you right now, 5, 7, these are outstanding comments, 5, 7 ,9,10,12, 13, 14, 15 through 17. Mr. Bowser asked 5, is a variance? Mr. Reichard said correct. Basically everything is a variance with the exception of 15 through 17. Mr. Bowser asked you are going to email a copy of the storm water ordinance? Mr. Reichard said yes. Mr. Bowser asked 9’s not a variance? Mr. Reichard said oh okay. 9 is actually addressed. Mr. Bowser said that’s correct. Mr. Bowser said 10’s the agreement, 12 is a variance through the agreement, is that what I recall? Mr. Reichard said right. Technically you didn’t physically have a 12 foot driveway. Mr. Bowser said 14, remains an issue only because it becomes a catch all of the variances have to be. Mr. Reichard said right.
Mr. Bowser said that takes us back to 15 through 17, which I came to
the point where you had the executive session. Where does that leave me for
15, 16, and 17? Mr. Reichard said I think council is looking for formal control to be implemented. Mr. Bowser said or requesting a waiver for it? Mr. Reichard said you can request it, it needs to be approved by council or
the borough engineer. My personal opinion is that it not be approved, no waiver for that, its not storm water management. Mr. Bowser said there is one thing I want to let council know, this is extremely disturbing that this was not caught the first time. I mean, it was run through, zoning, it was taken through building, it was inspected, it was approved, it was done. Needless to say, now I am sitting here going backwards on some things that should have been caught the first time, it would have been easier to address based on that time of construction. The cost of two infiltration pits post construction compared that during. So I just want to let it be know.
Councilman Allar said what was the date of the storm water management ordinance? Mr. Bowser said it was before August. Mr. Reichard said it was
Visitors(cont.) Page 15
in 2005. Mr. Bowser said one other recommendation, perhaps the
storm water ordinance referred at the time of a zoning application as
part of the application. That is one place that would be flagged. Mr. Bowser
said that waiver, if I decide to that regardless. That waiver is requested in writing. Mr. Reichard said yes. Mr. Bowser said copies for you, for your review. A motion was made to make a formal action to table the plan by Councilman Noll. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Mr. Bowser said that ninety day waiver period begins? Mr. Reichard said I think it’s the first council meeting when you presented it to council.
May 6th. Solicitor Solymos asked how long is this going to take in fairness to the applicant? Mr. Reichard said its all going to depend if he can get a zoning hearing, and all these variances approved. It comes down to storm water issue. That’s the one that I made recommendations on the storm water. There is a calculation that needs to be approved based on the pervious area.
Mr. Bowser said its going to be based on all the pervious area not just what’s on this plan? Mr. Reichard said all the pervious area. Not just against you, anything that is coming in here. Mr. Bowser said I wouldn’t be a builder if I didn’t stand here and ask. Mr. Reichard said any development you go into they’re going to have them on each house. Mr. Bowser said my ninety days begins May 6th. I’m probably not going to make that in all reality. Looking at the zoning schedule, I would assume they are going to be available by the end of this month for that. They may not be. And then by then I have fallen
in July for your meeting. So once I hit July I’m at sixty. So by the time I get to the August meeting, I’m outside ninety. Solicitor Solymos said in all fairness to you, I would put a limit on how many days, sixty, ninety days.
Mr. Bowser said right. Councilman Myers asked, Todd a week or two ago,
a gentleman came in here and said he bought the property. Mr. Bowser said
we have an agreement of sale on it, that is correct. So my role, as developer on that parcel at this point is a developer’s agreement. Councilman Allar asked there was a settlement? Mr. Bowser said yes, there was a scheduled settlement, I believe somewhere around that area. I did not do that settlement, so one else may have. This plan knowing that is wasn’t a final plan, will reflect the assignment of the subdivision next time. Councilman Allar asked what took place at settlement? Mr. Bowser said the purchase of an existing parcel, which is one parcel. Councilman Allar said so effect he is now the owner, you are no longer the owner? Mr. Bowser said that is correct. Mr. Reichard said they need to sign that plan. Mr. Bowser said they
Visitors(cont.) Page 16
knowing I was coming here tonight for review as the CAD designer, based upon, make the changes at one time. So there is an equitable title change on there. Correct. He would have been guided by my staff to contact, Dana
or someone about renting and landlord and all that kind of stuff. What he purchased is an existing parcel of ground with an existing building on it to be rented as it stands. Solicitor Solymos asked he is going to want to subdivide it? Mr. Bowser said because I started the process, I agreed to continue that for him, that is correct. Solicitor Solymos asked but he does want to subdivide as opposed to say forget it? Mr. Bowser said he bought one unit, one parcel. He owns all of it. Since I begun the process. Councilman Allar said he’s applying for the variances, you applied for? Mr. Bowser said he will have to apply for the next round of variances. I will represent him as developer. Okay, any more questions. Thanks guys.
Solicitor Solymos said we had a lot last month that includes getting
these ordinances together.
Draft of Solicitor Solymos said the draft of the Wagner letter
Wagner is here to go out.
Draft Solicitor Solymos said the draft of the Riedel letter is
of Riedel here to review with regard to the easement issues.
Cottrell Solicitor Solymos said I have a date on the Cottrell
Mediation matter for mediation. That is July 29th. Anyone
that wants to get involved with that, can get involved.
I granted a twenty day extension on Cottrell a week
ago so they could file their documents.
Todd Solicitor Solymos said this new thing with Todd is
Bowser the only new thing that Sam had. Now we have our
time on that. That’s basically it on legal issues,
any one have any questions.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 17
Letter Councilman Allar asked you sent that letter for Riedel
Solicitor Solymos said its here for your review. The
secretary asked, would you like a copy? Councilman
Allar said yes. Solicitor Solymos said give me a call
Agreement Councilman Myers asked have you looked over the
with Red agreement apparently we have a renewal contract
Lion for zoning, its going to be up. Have you reviewed
that? The secretary said it’s the old agreement. Solicitor
Solymos asked have they changed it. The secretary said
I’ve gone to Dan Shaw, twice. He has spoken to Stew
Graybill. I haven’t gotten any physical documentation.
According to what I have highlighted, a motion can
be made at borough council meeting in June to
continue. I have not heard yah or nay from Red Lion,
if they want to continue or not. My advice to move
to do it, let them tell us that they approved it. Councilman
Myers asked who drew it up last time? Solicitor Solymos
said they did. The secretary said initially it was a six month
agreement to see how the waters would flow. I have no
complaints with Dan. He and I have a good rapport. Solicitor
Solymos said this refreshes my recollection, this has to be one
move and then it renews automatically until terminated. The
secretary said correct then there are rules about how
termination takes place. Solicitor Solymos said why don’t
call Michael Craley to find out if Red Lion is going to do that.
I can’t imagine there would be a problem, you would hear
about it. The secretary said I went through Dan. Councilman
Myers asked Tom, did you hear of any problems? Councilman
Allar said no, I don’t think it will be an issue with Red Lion.
A motion was made by Councilman Allar that we renew
the contract for zoning services with Red Lion Borough. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Code Adm. Councilman Myers said I have a question for you, Code
Letter Administrators, I guess its on the fire department’s side.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 18
They sent out a letter to all the fire and emergency
personnel in York and Lancaster county. The way
I’m taking it, they sent out to the fire departments.
I think it’s a good thing, however, there’s going
to be charges. They’re not going to come out
and do that for free. So what should the fire
department do and who is going to eat the bill?
Obviously it isn’t going to be the fire company and
the borough isn’t going to want to do it? How
does that work? Solicitor Solymos asked can I
read it and get back to you. Councilman Myers said
yeah, I think we need to give the fire company some
direction on any building that would catch on fire
in Yoe Borough. Mr. Shearer said I think those
charges go onto the permit process, renovation.
Councilman Myers said if our ordinances don’t
say that, is that an issue? I looked through that
ordinance book. It just has me concerned, some
concerns I don’t want to see Yoe Borough, have
a big bill from these guys. The secretary said
that would be a good question if its part of the
fee schedule that they presented to us, Jan.
1, 2008. I think there was something about,
sprinklers in there. I don’t know what you
are talking about. Solicitor Solymos said
let me get back to you.
New Solicitor Solymos said Sandy Breeden is my
Sheriff Councilman Allar said we have a number of properties
Sale in town in the process of sheriff sale. No one is
taking care of them. If we would cut the grass and
do whatever is necessary, those expenses can
they be incorporated as part of that sheriff’s sale?
Solicitor Solymos said you can put a lien on the
property. I’m researching that right now
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 19
for Shrewsbury. The same question has arisen for
four feet of grass on somebody’s yard, foreclosure.
And the mortgage company’s are not doing anything.
Councilman Allar said I think it’s a problem. Solicitor
Solymos said I think we’ll do that, set it up and place
a lien on the properties. Unfortunately they are in
foreclosure, the bank gets their money first. We’re
not going to get any. The lien is going to be hollow.
Because what will happen the first sheriff’s sale,
someone will pay the lien off. The second sheriff’s
sale, it goes lien free. I am checking that out. I think
the alternative is to go after the foreclosure agency,
which is the mortgage company. As opposed to going
after the owner. Councilman Allar said well owner
legally can’t even step foot on the property. Solicitor
Solymos said that’s right. We had this once before,
with a mortgage company. There was trees involved.
Anyway I’m looking into it, so I’ll have an answer
very shortly here.
Memorial Mr. Shearer thanked Sandy for helping with the
war memorial. She did a nice job with the plants
and everything down there. We had it looking
good for Memorial Day. Councilman Myer said
actually thank you to both of you. You made
some residents very happy. Mr. Shearer said
we purchased a wreath, silk flower wreath.
That way we can put it out on the major
holidays, a patriotic wreath.
Vandalism Mr. Shearer said we had a rash of vandalism,
different vandalism. When John gets here,
there are some things that he’ll get into.
One of the thing we did have a break in of
the women’s bathroom door at the park over
Memorial Day. I’ll have to make temporary
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 20
repairs right now, its locked up. I’m going
to have to put on a more permanent
temporary repair. I’m not going to get to
intent with that because hopefully that
will be replaced as a whole. We’ve
taken the steps to have the video, we
have a gentleman on the video footage.
The police have it, they don’t know
who he is. Like I said there are some other
issues with damages here at the shop and
at the park. John will cover those. We had
thought previously about putting some
other cameras at the park. Richard from
Perpetual has not gotten back to me yet.
Councilman Myers said I want you to
start to check with somebody else, find
somebody else. We’ve waited long enough
for that. If he comes around till then, fine,
but, if they can’t produce, obviously they
don’t want our business. Councilman Allar
asked do you want me to call him, I’m the
one that started this. Councilman Myers said
if you want to call him great. I want him to
start moving ahead. This is the second time
now. Mr. Shearer said it took the better part
of a week and half for them to repair the
camera that we had hanging up there and
never got back to us on prices. Councilman
Myers said then go with somebody else,
we can compare prices.
Use of Mr. Shearer said I’ve been observing people
Tennis using the tennis courts up at the park as a
Courts dog run. They take their dogs in there and
let them run. I don’t know. Councilman
Myers said tell them to go to John Rudy
Park there are fourteen acres there. Mr.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 21
Shearer said just wanting to see how you
feel about this. I said something to John,
to let him think about it so. If you want
to hash it out maybe. I thought about just
putting up a NO DOG sign, probably
don’t have anything to support a no
dog sign. Councilman Howett said
its tennis court not a dog run. Mr. Shearer
said that’s my feeling about it. The other
day I was up there mowing, later in
the afternoon and somebody with a large
dog who didn’t seem very obedient, she
put the dog in there and was letting him
go. Its one thing to have control of your dog,
if not on a leash, she had him on the leash but
then she lets him off the leash. Councilman
Crull asked I thought we had an ordinance
that they had to be on a leash? I don’t think
they should be on a playground to start
with. People have homes and other places
they can go. How would you like to have
a couple young kids of your own and take
them up there, whether it would be the
tennis courts or up at the park and have
them tramp around and tramp in the
wrong thing. Councilman Myers said
its kind of funny, George and I have
a lot of experience with dogs in a park.
But for the most part, when on a leash,
we don’t have a big problem. When they
off the leash, that’s when we have issues.
We issues with certain land mines that
people fail to pick up. We have signs that
the county has an ordinance that we can
arrest them, which they have done. That
usually takes care of the issue. Councilman
Crull said you are working with a park
that has a lot of area. We just have an acre
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 22
or two. Councilman Allar said well certainly
posting the leash law, we probably could do
that anyway. We do have some legal back
up there with the ordinance. Councilman
Myers read, no person owns that possesses,
owns or controls any dog and cat, shall
allow the same to run at large within
the borough of Yoe, for purpose of this
section. To run at large shall be defined
to the presence of a dog or cat of any place,
accept upon premises of the owner. Such
dog or cat is on leash or under control of
a person physically able to control it is hereby
declared a public nuisance. So it sounds like
it can be on a leash but they have to be able
to control it. Councilman Noll asked, how
does the borough view, feral cats, those types
of things that are throughout the town? The
secretary said we use Terry Hemler in the
past, he’s come down and investigated.
Councilman Myers said I remember a long
time ago we set out some traps. I remember
some lady called me up and really gave me
an earful cause we caught her cat took
it to the SPCA. The secretary said we just
had a case where an older woman, her
cat had babies and was living outside. The
babies were wondering into other people’s
yards. Mr. Hemler came down and handled
it. The woman was quite upset but they did
get rid of babies, to the SPCA or wherever,
got them adopted. Terry Hemler handles
that. Councilman Noll said I don’t know,
but a special request can be made for the
backside of 200 block of S. Main. There
are five and six cats, they are constantly
in and out of everything. The secretary
said will call Mr. Hemler and ask him
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 23
to check into that. The secretary asked
so what did you decide on the tennis court
thing. Councilman Myers said the dog
needs to be in control. The only thing
I don’t understand who arrests them?
I guess the police department, they
enforce our ordinances. Mr. Shearer
said what I’ll do, is I’ll get a couple
signs that states this is the ordinance
for dog leash, and I will post them.
Councilman Myers said get a couple
signs that say no dogs on tennis
court and put it on the fence, the
tennis court or basketball court.
Councilman Noll said no animals
Vacation Mr. Shearer said I am scheduled for vacation.
June 30 through July 7th. I am taking five
days plus the holiday. I will make sure
I’m caught up on the mowing.
Mowers/ Mr. Shearer said the other big thing I’d like
Weed to get approval on tonight. Is the ARD
Eaters have been working out pretty good this
spring. We have a good supervisor this year.
Averaging three to four people pretty much.
I’d like to try to get a couple more push
mowers and weed eaters. I get four to five
people to show up on a crew, I don’t have
enough equipment for work. Councilman
Myers asked how much money do you
want? Mr. Shearer said I’d like, I was
thing two mowers and another weed
eater. Probably talking $800.00. Councilman
Myers said you are talking cheap mowers
right? Mr. Shearer said yeah. Councilman
Allar said its probably too late in the season,
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 24
what about the surplus stuff. Councilman
Myers said typically that stuff with
surplus, if its there its junk. Mr. Shearer
said and like Barry said, the more
bargain basement type mower is simple
for them to operate. I’ve done this before,
last year up at the park, one guy didn’t
make me very happy, when we were
painting the curbs. He ended up push
mowing the park for like two weeks.
It wasn’t me, it was a crew leader.
We’ve been getting good crews.
Councilman Allar said do you think
we could send a letter to Kathleen
Shue or her boss saying how we feel
this program is working. Just something
to, say it is working, it might encourage
them to get good people. Mr. Shearer
said you get the lot that shows up. And
actually they were here today, because
they sent me whatever extra help
they can get, it just so happened they
didn’t have anything for them today.
So she sent them down there. We
can send them a letter. I’ve told her
before how much we love the program.
Councilman Allar said everyone likes
to feel appreciated, I’m just thinking
it might help the relationship.
Lawn Councilman Allar asked you mentioned
Mower that the mower from Red Lion using
From oil? Is that major problem or minor
Red problem? Cost any money? Mr. Shearer
Lion said the thing stopped leaking. No
it was not out of oil. That was my first
concern because I’m standing, matter
of fact Raymond was out there, trying
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 25
to figure out, okay where do you check
the fluid on this thing. I went got the
book from Brett, he didn’t know. And
it had fluid, then it stopped leaking.
Of course it started leaking anti freeze.
We got that corrected. Councilman
Myers asked I guess I have one question,
do we have proposal worked out with
them? Councilman Allar said we
have an agreement. Councilman Myers
asked so if it blows up tomorrow whats
the agreement? We bought the tractor.
Councilman Allar said we don’t buy
it we help pay our share of repairs and
put oil and maintain it and clean it and
whatever. But there is nothing in there
that we’re liable for a lawn mower.
Mr. Shearer said actually last Thursday
like I said it stopped leaking. It dripped
all over the floor out here. We used for
another week or so. I check the fluid
and everything. Took it to the dam,
had ARD up there doing their thing,
I was up there mowing and towards
the end of the day it started developing
a leak again. So its back in Red Lion.
Councilman Allar said Red Lion has
a lot more cutting to do than we do.
Mr. Shearer said that whole month
it was gone, Brett didn’t need it.
Councilman Allar said I guess they
have more lawn mowers. If it comes
to it, you’re talking a couple thousand
dollars or something, I will go back
to the township, as long as we don’t
burn any bridges with the township.
Councilman Myers said I know they’re
upset. Mrs. Crull said they came down
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 26
and cut our trees. A motion was made by
Councilman Allar to expend up to
$800.00 to buy cheap lawnmowers and
weed eaters. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Myers said so moved.
Bowser Mr. Reichard said under land development, we already
addressed the Todd Bowser one. I actually didn’t
have that one on there, but we are beyond that.
Orchard Mr. Reichard said the next item is the Orchard Vista
Vista LLC site. As you recall last month, we added
LLC a special report in our report, that indicated that
they had until 5/8/08 to address outstanding
issues. The Conservation District did go back
out and do a follow up inspection on that date.
And sent a new letter out and say that everything
is in conformance. We did secure a copy of the
plan that is on file with the Conservation District.
And went out on site and kind of looked at it.
And its pretty close. The one thing we couldn’t
identify, there’s suppose to be a large inversion
swale that runs through the center of the property.
Which would be up above, Fourth Street and
the grass is actually too tall to tell what’s going
on with the grades out there. So we’re not 100%
sure on that one. We have a call into the
Conservation District to determine if that
is actually in place or not. We did identify
an inlet that is in the field that is to be
dredging water from that swale and has what
they call a filter bag in it, more less separates
sediment from the water when it goes into
the pipe. And its completely blown out. Which
is not good as all the water goes down to a below
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
grade infiltration bed. Which obviously is
receiving the silt, so. We did identify that
with the Conservation District. I’m
waiting for a call back. Councilman Allar
asked so this is suppose to catch the
water? Mr. Reichard said that’s suppose
to be catching all the water and I’m confused
by it because we’re still getting sediment laden
water down in the park, which is all going
down here. And we shouldn’t be getting any if
its being caught by that swale and taken over
into that collection system. So. Councilman
Allar asked is this where that basket is going,
through there. That doesn’t look like very
low evaluation when you eyeball it. It doesn’t
look like much of a swale. Mr. Reichard said
I agree, that is what we had trouble with and
that’s why we called the Conservation District.
Councilman Allar said if this was maybe a
foot lower that’s probably long enough to
keep the water in that area. Conservation
District comes back and says deepen it,
there’s no problem. Mr. Reichard said right.
I’ll update you next month what we find out
here. We only able to get this today actually
and stopped out to look at it. Councilman
Allar said what about the township has anything
been able to be gotten from them? Mr. Reichard
said I didn’t check with the township. Councilman
Allar said I think it was brought up at the last
meeting, last month, you were going to see what
permits what was there? Mr. Reichard said what
the Conservation District is what my notes show.
I can contact the township. Councilman Allar said
I think Sam said that some citizen, Strobeck or
something went to the township, we’re not
aware of anything. Mr. Reichard said I can
get a hold, I didn’t have it written down there.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
Mr. Reichard said I didn’t do that, I’ll call them.
John Mr. Reichard said on the John Adams subdivision
Adams we were in contact with Jeff Firestone, once again,
the site contractor for the project on Yoe Drive.
And found that the sediment pond has been
converted over. They apparently still have to
do grading and seeding and get that vegetated.
Its filled in now. That’s good news.
Yoe Drive Mr. Reichard said that leads into the next item
Paving Yoe Drive paving. We got a hold of the township,
well actually Scott Depoe, contacted Sam. And
just to find out what was going on with the bids
that we heard about last month. They did indeed
bid a paving project for possibly 350 tons of
material. They got a price of $49.30 for
material plus application on the roadway. This
the first of two phases in the paving. We’re looking
at Yoe Borough’s share of roughly $8627.50.
That’s for a 19 mm base course that’s going to be
used to get the street up, shaped correctly, water
falling to the curb line on both sides basically
flush with the inlets that were installed out there.
There will be a wearing course that would come
back at a later date, which they are thinking would
be next summer to finalize the job. That should use
less paving than the 350, hopefully the costs are
down but then the way the price are going it might
not be close. I told the township, I would present
to you guys tonight for a decision on how you
would want to proceed with it. Let them know,
either way. Councilman Crull asked have we
made a commitment of some of that money to
do that hill, Yoe Drive in that area of the borough?
Mr. Reichard said the commitment is loose. I believe
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
Sam had basically had told them, yeah, we understand
we have responsibility to our half. And then once
we find out the numbers, we’ll respond to you, and let
you know what we’re willing or able to do. Councilman
Crull said we didn’t put any of the curbing in along
that street. Mr. Reichard said well, its an awkward
situation. The developer was responsible for a 7
foot widening beyond. He did part of that. This project,
he’s not included in. When it comes back to do the
final top coat on, then you can go back to him for
a portion of that cost. Cause he was only responsible
for basically two layers, he has the first one in. The
street is in such a bad shape that its going to take
extra to bring it up to what. Councilman Crull said
we kind of went through this before, two years ago
they put that curb in and came up to my driveway
there. And Mr. Miller, we had a little discussion,
I’m sure we did here at the council table, about
Orchard, the street out there and Yoe Drive. The
curbing the whole way out to Chapel Church Rd.
within a few years, and the street will be that wide.
And they would take care of it. So I had thought,
that was the last I would hear of it until I read
those minutes. Mr. Reichard said right, I think
things have changed a little bit. Councilman Crull
said that’s a possibility. Mr. Reichard said that
was the understanding and I think the township
was in the position that they were willing to
take care of it. And then the borough expressed
there concern, that they basically were taking
ownership of that street. There was an issue
about parking along the roadway. And now
the township is in the position to say if you
truly want part of that street, we would like
you to share some of the expenses of
maintaining it. That’s where we’re at.
Councilman Noll asked does the borough
have the money to pay for it? Councilman Myers
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
said no. The secretary said I asked the question,
I was told it could be done, I don’t how it
is done. That is not an adopted street of the
borough, its not the liquid fuels list. I was
told it can be done. I was never involved
anything that wasn’t an adopted street of
the borough. Councilman Myer said so
what you do, is it comes out of general
fund money. The secretary said we don’t
have that money budgeted for road
maintenance for general fund, no. Councilman
Allar said I thought we could use liquid fuels
even if its not an adopted road of the borough.
Councilman Myers said it has to be adopted.
How much was it? Mr. Reichard said $8627
and that’s an estimate, that was bid quantities
if they use less then it will be less, if they use
more than it will be more. The secretary said
but at least its something then we know
where we’re at. Councilman Noll said and
there were no asphalt adjustments in there
that the price is going to go up? Mr. Reichard
said I didn’t see the bid, they’re looking at
a month turnaround. Councilman Noll said
asphalt is up about $60.00 per ton. Mr. Reichard
said generally its about 2500 tons it takes to
get to the point to have adjustment clause in there.
Councilman Myers said if we don’t do it, potentially
down the middle of the street, its not across. Mr.
Reichard said its going down the center line.
Councilman Myers said the issue with that is,
then you’re going to have residents down here.
In a sense is going to be half of job because
half the street is not done. It could be a safety
problem with a motorcycle going down.
Councilman Allar said the street is going to
be done because there has been interest in
York Township to do the street because they
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
have other developments coming on the way,
that are going to be using that street. The issue
is whether or not we contribute. I don’t think
anything is going to change as far as street
width, its going to be paved one way or
another. We’re not holding up their progress.
The whole purpose of this paving is not
for the benefit of Yoe but for the benefit
of York Township because of all the new
development. It will be done. Its just is,
is Yoe going to contribute. Councilman
Myers asked, did Scott ask if we want
to contribute, or did he say? Mr. Reichard
said I wasn’t part of those conversations.
Councilman Allar said I thought it was
Sam. Councilman Noll said as we
discussed last time, its probably, if we
contribute something because of all the
other monies. Councilman Myers said
what is the amount? Mr. Reichard said
$8627 based on estimated quantities, keep
in mind there’s going to be another one,
next summer to finish the job. Mrs. Crull
asked where are they going from, from
where to where. Mr. Reichard said its about
550 feet from basically the entrance to
Heather Glen and down just below your
driveway, it’ll go through that bottom part,
20 feet or 30 feet just where your driveway
stops. The problem is the street is concave.
They have to fill up that whole middle to
get it, to have a crown. Councilman Noll
asked do you think from your conversation,
they would be willing to negotiate a
counter offer that they would accept,
$6000? Mr. Reichard said I really can’t
speak to that but I know the numbers and
what is going on but other than that, I can’t
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 32
really say. Councilman Myers said I don’t know
what Sam would say. Mr. Reichard said I talk to
Sam, he seemed honestly it could be done. He
said about making an offer to pay installments.
X thousand dollars per year for the next four
or five years. Councilman Allar said I might
start lower than that, see if they accept in kind
service plan or something. And maybe Dana
goes down further on the road. Maybe then
they accept a couple thousand instead of.
Councilman Myers said I guess we won’t know
unless we talk to somebody, honestly I don’t
see we doing it. The secretary said we have
$1500.00 budgeted for highway maintenance
for general fund. Councilman Myers said
there’s your mower. Mr. Shearer said like
I said before, Rick Levan had said, send a letter
if you have maintained the road twenty one years,
those portions of those streets are not adopted.
It is more and likely that you would be able
to add them, at least get them to allow us to use
liquid fuels to maintain them even though we
don’t get liquid fuels monies for them. Councilman
Myers said that would be worthwhile just to see.
If we could do that, spend the money. Councilman
Allar said I have a lot less problem in using the
liquid fuels money. Councilman Myers said I do
too. The secretary said we have $52,000.00 in
state liquid fuels. The secretary asked did you hear
anything new about prevailing wage on highway
maintenance if its over $25,000.00. I heard that
Springfield Township because they have changed it,
they are not doing highway maintenance projects,
because if its over $25,000.00 you have to use
prevailing wage. Councilman Myers said we always
do that. The secretary said this is for highway
maintenance. Councilman Myers said it use
to be for a single project. Mr. Reichard said I heard
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33
them talk, I can’t talk to that exactly, but there is
some literature at the office that I can pull for you.
There is some discussion on that. Mr. Shearer said
they changed the rules, in the Rendell administration,
somebody in whatever branch takes care of that,
I guess Labor and Industry whatever, said that they
had to pay prevailing wage, even for maintenance.
They pulled back from it, the governor said no,
it’s a hardship, we’re going back to the old way.
I have not seen anything in print, that they are
changing from that stance. It does say in the
liquid fuels guidebook what classifies as maintenance,
how many inches can be applied and what type
of material. I guarantee this much asphalt its
not maintenance. This is going to be reconstruction.
And yes, more and likely York Township is paying
prevailing wages. Mr Reichard is going to be checking
into that. Mr. Shearer asked do you want him to
contact municipal services to find out? Mr. Reichard
said we’ll nominate you for that. Mr. Shearer can
contact them. Mr. Shearer said when I do it I am
going to include Orchard Street, that way, cause
somewhere in the near future there going to go from the intersection of Walnut around that curve. What’s
holding them up right now, they don’t want to push
storm water on the neighboring properties. Somewhere
along they’re going, we’re going, whomever is going to
have to act from Walnut Street to the curve. Councilman
Crull said I talked to Mr. Miller on that also some
time ago. They didn’t want to go any further down
Orchard because of the problems that they were
having in two apartments down there, duplexes or
whatever. And the water, they didn’t feel they were the
ones to decide how to cut the street up and detour
the water so it didn’t run into any of those houses.
They figured that part was in Yoe, that we should do
that part. Councilman Myers said that is going to
be an issue. Mr. Reichard said so the decision is,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34
to not pay anything until we found out if any
liquid fuels money is eligible for it and make
this bid until next month. Councilman Myers
said yeah, and you can do a letter.
Growing Mr. Reichard reported the Growing Greener grant
Greener did get submitted. We talked about last month for
Grant stream restoration down below, we incorporated
some water qualities in , some inlets, and for
giving some money for a potential fore bay.
Jake Romig from Ecco Construction was working
on that primarily. I helped out where I could.
That went in on time. Hopefully hear something
in August on that.
Yoe Mr. Reichard said Yoe Borough Dam Dredging, last
Borough month council decided, that they were in favor of trying
Dam combine the two projects, one for the basin dredging and
Dredging then York Township’s project, stream restoration above
the basin. In the process, in digging into this, and
certain communication, we found that there may be
issues with relations between Yoe and York Township
and kind of came into a dead end in that effort of
working together unfortunately. So, I asked Sam,
to look into, and he apparently didn’t uncover anything
with his inquiry with the township however we’re still
not have cooperation we’re looking for. Councilman
Allar asked Sam didn’t get back to you after I talked
to him? Mr. Reichard said no, he got back, he apparently
talked to Elizabeth, and she replied and didn’t make any
mention on his inquiry on the relations directly and
didn’t want to give any direction or concurrence that
she was in favor on working together on this and that
Jake Romig did go talk to them on the grant so much
as saying, Jake Romig refers grants. So I need direction,
right now we’re on a holding pattern, to get this
application completed and submitted. At this point
the way it appears, your option is for us to go on our
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
own and do it and if DEP dictates that we should combine
the two and then we will have entertain that at that time.
My question is do you want me to do it or do want to
rely on the services of Jake Romig to try get together
on our behalf, his services are simply volunteering for
Yoe Borough? Councilman Allar said we’re trying
to save money on this, if Jake is willing to pick up some of this
that’s great. Here’s the point, here’s the thing, if we’re
going to have any of that top down driven thing, we can’t
hold up, we can’t hold up. If the township gets there
before us and gets approved, first comes in, it may not
be a top down driven, they may go off and do before
we’re ready. So I would ours up there as soon as we
can. Mr. Reichard said that’s fine, we’ll do it , my only
concern is we’re all of sudden we’re getting stuff from
the engineers agenda. The CDBG application kind of
grew a little bit just from re-filing. The application
went up to DEP. Councilman Allar said you knew the
application to DEP was something else. Mr. Reichard
said yeah, I actually banked on Jake for a large
percentage of that. Councilman Allar said that is still
an issue. Remember Jake was going to coordinate
yours and the township, now he’s just is going to be
doing yours. There’s no reason he can’t work with it.
Mr. Reichard said that’s fine. Councilman Allar said
I’m just telling Jake, just don’t go back to the township
right now. Councilman Myers said I think he’s saying
that’s not budgeted. Mr. Reichard said I don’t know
what you have but lately we are spending a lot of time.
Councilman Allar said but this isn’t nothing new, I mean
that this part of the county gets Growing Greener money
and that’s fine and they give it to us and that’s fine. But
DEP is still looking for some kind of application but 90%
of the work is already done. A lot of it is done because
you had to go out and survey it and all that stuff anyway.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
I’m thinking this application is not a big deal. Its not
like the DCNR application. Mr. Reichard said my
concern is that time just adds up pretty quick.
Councilman Myers said there’s going to have to
be, because I know that there’s two municipalities
going for Growing Greener money, us and New
Freedom. They have the information. They did
change New Freedom’s around to work on with
the county. Councilman Allar said we have no
choice, if we don’t send it up we don’t get
the Growing Greener, the whole project dies.
Mr. Reichard said I’ll draft a short letter in
response to the letter they sent saying basically
thanking them for allocating the money, Yoe
Borough is looking to move forward with the
project and application, you will see something
in the near future. So its. Councilman Allar
said I would work closely with Jake because
he knows, he might have a clue with DEP when
the township arrives. Maybe he can give them
a call. I would not sit on it. Mr. Reichard said
I just didn’t know where we were heading.
Zoning Mr. Reichard said the zoning ordinance we talked
CDBG Mr. Reichard said I wanted to bring up a little bit
because we’ve been working with Tom and Seth
on an estimate and pulling the numbers together.
And they’re adding up to be fairly significant,
it’s the second sheet with the report. We were
originally looking at $170,000.00. The $70,000.00
we have sitting with DCNR. We’re going to
go for a $100,000.00 with CDBG. And basically
on the current figures that we have, we are at
$223,000.00. Councilman Allar said you were
going to send this to me so we could go over it, so
we could spread this over the three years.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37
Not do this in one year. Mr. Reichard said we
just got some of this, this week. But ultimately
the ultimate figure, I didn’t think we were going
to above $170,000.00. Councilman Allar said
council needs their approval. Mr. Reichard
said I just need to know what everyone wants
to do for sure. If we’re going to go, if we’re
going to go for 2.3 and split up extra money over.
Councilman Allar said just don’t put 2.3 down.
That’s the answer. We have to talk at least on
the telephone to figure out a way, how we
can break this down, to do the right project
in the first year to get matching credit with
Knisely. I don’t know, did Aaron pass back to
you when we met out, when I said make sure
I get a copy of how that first year makes down.
Mr. Reichard said we didn’t establish that
criteria yet. Councilman Allar said this is
going to drive them crazy if they see this
in the first year. We’re not going to get it,
they’ll probably throw it away. We have
to pair this down, in some fashion. Mr.
Reichard said when we talked at our meeting,
I thought we said we put a cap on CDBG
of $100,000.00 because that’s what we
thought could actually be funded. Councilman
Allar said but we got back to the skateboard
thing, we’re not going to get the skateboard
thing with a $100,000.00. There are a lot
of grays. I have to call you on some other
things. You know, that June 6th its going
to have be in. Mr. Reichard said right.
Councilman Allar said its just this one
page. I think you’re putting the whole
grant in jeopardy because that’s the
sexiest thing in there and it corresponds
with the DCNR one. There’s a way to
do it, we just have to work on it.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 38
Councilman Myers said so basically by you
saying we put the skateboard in there that
we want a skateboard. Councilman Allar said
oh no, this is a different money. Councilman
Myers said if we are going to get the money,
that’s what you’re saying. Councilman Allar
said correct, this is to get the money, what
we’re going to build, who knows what
we’re going to build that depends, we’re
going to have to do some more effort
in the community to find out what they
want. Remember those guys again. We’re
going to have to someone use the newspapers
to get feed back. I don’t care what it is.
If it’s a boys club or a baseball pitching
machine. This is big, this helped me get
DCNR. Councilman Myers said I just
don’t want to put down something that.
I’m not in favor of the skate park. I’m
seeing paperwork that we’re putting a
skate park in. Councilman Allar said what
you do you go back to whoever and say
we reviewed with the community as to
what they wanted. The wishes have
changed so that’s the way we want
it to be. Mr. Reichard asked initially
you want to reduce the skate board
park? I’m just going by what you sent
into us, I guess you talked to them.
I thought that was what you were
looking for. Councilman Allar said
yeah, he was giving me the idea but
I was giving you what they’re going
to probably accept. Councilman
Myers said I think it would be better
that you get together and work out
the details. Councilman Allar said
are you going to be around tomorrow?
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 39
Mr. Reichard said I’ll be in Gettysburg tomorrow.
But we can. Councilman Allar said are you
going to have Aaron call me. Mr. Reichard said
either way, that’s fine. Yeah we can do that.
Councilman Allar said I was going to ask
tonight about the last things. Mr. Reichard said
I’m not sure when the last items came in for
him. He completed this today for me. I threw
it here today to talk about it. That’s fine.
Comp Councilman Allar said I guess we’ll put it under
Plan engineering. These are follow up things on the
comp plan, comprehensive plan. There’s about,
busy month, a lot of meetings. There are five
other documents to follow up on the
comprehensive plan if not this week, next
week. All three boroughs are approving the
same kind of documents at the same time.
We’ve got the ordinance down. The next is
the intergovernmental cooperation agreement
for multi municipal planning. Everyone has
seen this. This is the document where
all the percentages is in here, all the different
what contribution is, which happens to be
10%. It allows us to enter into grants. It
talks about representation from the different
municipalities. We sent a letter in as to,
that I’m the main representative. So this
is really, nothing new here. We just need
to take a vote and pass it and then sign
it. And Red Lion is 54% and Dallastown
is 36%. Councilman Myers said did it
have, and I can’t remember, and it said
we’re responsible for 10%. But didn’t
say 10% of what did it? Councilman
Allar said well, the cost of the comprehensive
plan. We don’t know what the cost are because
we haven’t contracted the engineer to tell us
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 40
what its going to be, yet. It allows us to
move forward. Now we’re, the ideal
situation its not going to cost us a
dime, if we get the grant. The estimate is
maybe, $50,000, $60,000 tops. If we
get zero grant money, our obligation
will be $5,000 to $6,000.00 over the
next two to three years, however long
it takes to put this together. We’re fairly
comfortable, we think we’re going to
get the CDBG grant. We’re pretty
comfortable that we think we’re going
to get the state grant. The state grant is
matching, and matches with the CDBG.
If we don’t get those grants, we’re probably
not going to go forward and not have
a comprehensive plan. I’m not sure of
the other municipalities even want to
raise more money than we have. It may
very well, just end at that point. Pete
has seen the drafts of it. So anyway
that is what this is? Councilman Allar
asked do you want me to go through
them all then vote or one at a time?
Councilman Myers said one at a time.
A motion was made by Councilman
Allar to sign the intergovernmental
cooperation agreement for multi-
municipal planning. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Noll
All in favor. Councilman Allar said
I am going to give you this. The
secretary said I didn’t know it was going
to be signed tonight. Councilman Allar
said this is not a good copy, what you
really need to do is contact Connie and
one from Red Lion. The secretary said
it has to be down here tomorrow due
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 41
Councilman Allar said unless you can use this
and have it signed. The secretary said we may
have an original from Connie. Do I make
a copy to send to them? And then they send
one that is signed by all. Councilman Allar
said they haven’t signed the agreement
because they haven’t met yet. The secretary
said Barry can sign it and I can sign it
Resolution Councilman Allar said the next item, a resolution.
2008-05 Remember that last time we did a resolution that
we did that Jason could submit for the CDBG.
We are also submitted for the CDBG for the
comp plan. We just have to do a resolution,
just a one liner. In fact I have some samples
here. Its not a one liner but its not much
more than a one liner. Something to, a
technically that we have for all three
boroughs, we have to have a resolution
on file so. That’s my next move. To
do a resolution to allow for the submission
for the CDBG grant for the comprehensive
plan. Councilman Myers said and that’s
something we should approve next time?
Councilman Allar said no we should approve
that now. The secretary said we need a resolution
number and it has to go to Sam to be typed up.
Councilman Allar said we need this to go
to Red Lion by the sixth. A motion was made
by Councilman Allar to resolve Resolution
2008-05 to allow for submission for the CDBG
grant for the comprehensive plan. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in
favor. The secretary asked where does this
resolution go? Councilman Allar said it will go,
again, all these documents to every other
municipalities. The secretary said is it alright
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 42
that this doesn’t go out until after I get back
from vacation because this won’t be ready
by tomorrow. It won’t go out until June 16th
or after. Councilman Allar said there’s only
one document that absolutely in before you
leave. The fact that the minutes reflect that
movement has been done is sufficient. At
least the resolution has been approved before
the submission CDBG. The copy would go
to Red Lion. I don’t know if its important
that it goes with the submission. The secretary
said its just going to be Dallastown and
Red Lion when we get it typed up and
ready to go. Okay. I’ll give it to Sam.
CDBG Councilman Allar said this is the CDBG that
Application we’re submitting for $35,000.00 and we’ll
be going in for $35,000 from the state for
a total of $70,000.00. We are not expecting
to need that much but that’s what we’re
going to have. Some reason, Stew knocked
this off in a day. Its certainly substantial.
Letter Councilman Allar said the only, the really
of critical thing that does have to be done
Support tomorrow is a letter of support for that
CDBG grant. This is kind of reversed
when I was going in before for
intergovernmental money or block
grant money, I would get Dallastown
and York Township to give us letter.
Now we’re going to reverse it. Red Lion
is taking the lead. Again, a couple of lines,
that we are supporting the tri borough
comprehensive plan effort or whatever.
We can take the reading right off of
our ordinance. And I’m trying to think,
there’s some in the files, we used other
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 43
letters from Dallastown. Remember
when we did for the basins, and we
asked them for letters. Councilman
Myers said the municipality sent
us a letter. Mr. Reichard said we
sent one for the Growing Greener
grant. The secretary said this would
have to go where? Councilman
Allar said this would have to go
to Red Lion? The secretary asked
who should it be addressed to,
Red Lion? Councilman Allar said no
this is addressed to York County
Planning, who is going to get
the CDBG application. The secretary said
we are saying that we support the tri borough
comprehensive plan effort which includes
the submission of the CDBG. Councilman Allar
said you can call Connie, who do you work with
over in Red Lion. They can give you in
thirty seconds you need. The secretary said
who needs to sign it? Councilman Myers said
you can sign it as secretary. The secretary said
I’ll have Dana take it over to Red Lion. Councilman
Allar said Dana, if Stew is there, have him look over
it make sure its what he needs. I guess it would have
been easier to have him type it over.
Copy Councilman Allar said the next item, no one needs
of the to approve it or sign it, have copies of the qualifications,
Request the RFP to go out to various engineers who would like.
So they could give us quotes for the comp plan. If anyone
wants to look at it. Councilman Myers asked but that
doesn’t go out yet,does it? Councilman Allar said its
already gone out. Councilman Myers said I thought
you had to have the grant approved before that.
Mr. Reichard said we got ours today actually. Councilman
Allar said we’re not spending money, the engineering
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 44
firm puts the proposals together. Pam Shellenberger
will help. Councilman Myers said I never done it,
to work that way. Councilman Allar said I’m hoping
we’re on the inside track for CDBG with county, as
much as possible. Councilman Myers asked anything
else? Councilman Allar said that’s it. Councilman
Myers said thank you for doing all this.
Councilman Myers asked anything else for the
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Myers asked did everyone get a chance
to review the zoning officer’s report? Is there anything
that we need to talk about?
Contract Councilman Myers said the contract was obviously
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Councilman Myers asked John, any EMA stuff?
Mayor Sanford said no.
Mayor and Police Report
York Counts Mayor Sanford said we received a letter from York
Counts, that’s the group that’s trying to get the
regional police force for Metro York up and
running. Its basically notification that they are
going to have a meeting. The letter was placed
in the circulate file and a copy to the Mayor.
This conversation has been coming up at
the commissioner meetings for the regional
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 45
Police Mayor Sanford reported the following from the
Report York Area Regional Police for the month of April.
There were 31 calls, 1 accident, 20 traffic citations,
2 summary citations. Service hours 50.5 and
administrative hours 33.51.
Damage Mayor Sanford said the damage that was done at
at Park the park in the concrete. The individuals responsible
for that, for the minutes they’re names are Raymond
Bull, Justin Busse, Chelsea Anders, and Chevelle
Beaverson. Officer Steinfelt is working with Kinsley’s
people to make restitution on that. Its been suggested
and I support and I support his suggestion that
they should be banned from all borough property
for not less than a year or indefinitely. Councilman
Allar said I’d like to know the addresses sometime.
Mayor Sanford said okay. Mayor Sanford said
2 are on Broad, one on Main and one on E. Pennsylvania.
So I would ask council to support that action and
I will confirm that. Indefinitely or for a period of
one year, whatever you decide to do. Councilman
Allar said a minimum of one year, yeah. Councilman
Myers asked they did vandalism? Mayor Sanford
said yes. Councilman Allar asked what is the dollar
amount. Mayor Sanford said I’m not sure, Paul
didn’t get back to me on that. Councilman Myers said
it probably should be a year but they shouldn’t be
allowed back on the property until the debt is paid
off. Mayor Sanford said the restitution goes back
to Knisley. Councilman Myers said right, but the,
its going a criminal thing right? Mayor Sanford
said right. Councilman Myers said they could end
up paying 10 bucks every quarter, you know. Councilman
Allar asked can they go through and work it out?
Mayor Sanford said if they don’t have any prior history,
they can go through the youth aid program, restitution is
still due. Councilman Allar said that’s a good point, one
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 46
year. Councilman Myers said when they did damage
to the trailer down at the fire company, they took almost
two years to pay that off. A couple bucks here, a couple
bucks there. The secretary asked so Tom made that
motion for one year or until debt is paid off. Councilman
Myers said it has to be minimum of one year and then
but if they don’t pay the debt off for two years then
its two years. The secretary asked how do you word it
then? It could be three years. Councilman Allar said
it is one year or until the debt is paid. Mayor Sanford
said they can not have access to any borough property
until restitution is satisfied, regardless a minimum
of one year. A motion was made by Councilman Allar
that there be no access to any borough property
until restitution is satisfied, regardless, with a minimum
of one year. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Howett. All in favor. Mayor Sanford asked any questions
Vandalism Mayor Sanford said vandalism at the borough building a
at the couple weeks ago. There was letters, a copy of the letter
Borough that I wrote to the each family, that was in the circulation
Building file. Basically, the big, large brown door was damaged
with rocks. The window adjacent to the entrance door,
was damaged by rocks. The white garage door on
the small storage shed was damaged by a concrete
block. And we believe at the same time, the portable
toilet of Knapers was also damaged. We grouped this
all together, sent the families estimates of damage.
Had two families re-contact me. My recommendation
is that we do not include the portable toilet in the
damage estimates, lets refer them to Knapers or
refer Knapers to them if they want to try to collect.
I did talk to Officer Sampere, he did indicate, its
going to be hard to tie the damage of toilet in with
the rest of the vandalism so. The secretary said
Knapers did call about that. You may want to call
them about that. Mayor Sanford said okay, I’ll
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 47
give them a call. I wanted to bring it here tonight
before I call anybody back. The window I also,
moved on that, and go for the door damage and
don’t do anything with the brown door,with the
exception of some kind of community service to
impact their lives. Is everyone in favor of that?
To have a gesture of community service? To make
restitution for the damage to the big door?
Councilman Allar said to going back, is there
way of community service for the vandalism
at the park, get them to come back here and pick
up trash and do something for the borough? It
seems like that would be more meaningful, like
you say, to impact their little lives? Mayor Sanford
said yeah. And we can do that, with the park damage,
that the community service come back here. We can
request that. I’ll know more about that in four weeks.
I’m going to be sitting on the Youth Aid Panel.
Councilman Allar said I’m sure Dana has things
for them to do? Mayor Sanford asked what type of
community service do we want to give these,
there are six individuals? Councilman Myers asked
you are going to make them work for us? Mayor
Sanford said we’re going to require that they do
community service for the nicks are in the big
brown door but make them pay for the small
garage door. Councilman Allar said Dana has
trees he wants to plant. Mr. Shearer said I
already did it. You’ve got to remember they
range from age from 9 to 12. Mayor Sanford said
this is through the parents, the parents are already
aware of this. If they pay for the garage door and
agree to our community service, it won’t go through
the justice system. And Sampere is alright with that.
Councilman Allar asked anything at the fire house?
Mayor Sanford, said my feeling, is that I’d rather
have them do something for the borough. Councilman
Howett asked what would be the possibility of after
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 48
a Saturday park rental, help clean up after at the park.
I’m just throwing this out. She cleans or whatever, I don’t
know what she does up there but after. Mayor Sanford
said we could defer it to fall to do leaves. It has to be
something manual that they can do. The secretary asked
who should supervise them. Mayor Sanford said
I think the parents should supervise them, you give
them an area to clean up and. Originally Dana got the
call from a neighbor, Dana came up the alley, he called
the police and got them in a group. Dana called me
and I came up. The agreement at that time, not thinking
that it was just nicks in the door. That everyone just
do community service and that made everyone satisfied.
We turned around and saw the garage door and said I
don’t think that’s going to work. So that’s where we
stand now. I already had a conversation with Sampere,
and he said if they don’t want to cooperate, call him back
and we’ll go to criminal action which is going to
significantly increase their financial responsibility with
court costs and they will be charged with criminal
trespass. Councilman Allar said all that’s happening on the
first criminal act? Mayor Sanford said not if they agree
to pay the door. Councilman Allar said I’m talking about
the first one, the one at the park? Mayor Sanford said
yes. Yes that is a done deal. And in the letter not knowing
the big white garage door, the letter I indicated, originally
I had discussed that evening, that focus toward community
service for damage noticed on the large brown door with
thrown stones. However, this additional damage has
prompted the borough to take a different approach, which
will allow us to collect restitution money for replacement
for the door, window and damages to the toilet. Unless the
responsible individual/individuals come forth to admit
their guilt for the damage, all expenses to repair will be
divided month all those who were present that evening.
That definitely got their attention. Councilman Myers said
the hydrants are done right? Mr. Shearer said I really
hate putting kids right there on the edge of the street.
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 49
Its enough just trying to keep track of ARD. That’s
I’m kind of limited as to what I, I understand with
parents supervising them, whatever we give them is
safe for them to do, we’re not. What about gallons
if nice shiny silver metallic paint and paint rollers and let
them paint the baseball field fence? That’s been a project
that Ron has wanted me to get done for awhile. That is
one I haven’t gotten done yet, that might be an opportunity.
Councilman Myers said that and leaves at the park may
be a good one. Mr. Shearer said I can age appropriate the
thing, this high, that much fence, here to here. Everybody
gets a section. Mayor Sanford asked how many hours, or
whatever it takes? Councilman Myers said whatever it
takes. Mayor Sanford said do you want to take so many
hours for each kid at the park above the fence? Mayor
Sanford said two hours for each kid at the park? Councilman
Myers said separate. Councilman Allar said send the same
letter out to the parents, show up at a certain time, we
give you paint and here’s the fence and whenever it gets
painted. Its not going to be done in a day. Mayor Sanford
said okay. I’m going to have a meeting here with the
parents so. Dana will be notified. Someone from council
should be present. Try to do it on a Saturday morning.
Broad St. Mayor Sanford said complaints two months ago about
Speed speed on Broad. St. We put the sign up for notification
that a speed trap was going to follow, that was up for
two weeks. We did details, we did three individual
details at different times. We focused on mid afternoon
to early evening. At no time were any vehicles going at
an excess of 35 MPH. It has to be above 35. I don’t
want to say that the complaints were unfounded but.
I did ask that on especially on warmer evenings, that
the presence of marked cruisers on Broad Street and
sitting in alleys, five minutes here, ten minutes there.
Hopefully that. Councilman Myers said what’s interesting
is, the one gentleman that is here, now has a hangout
with bunch of people at his garage. Yesterday I saw,
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 50
a motorcycle, running and pushing a motorcycle up
the hill. Mayor Sanford said and again, Dana and I
talked and I kind of took this project and ran with it,
If I’m acting out of my area, let me know. And I’ll
give it to someone else. I don’t have a problem with
handling something like this. Councilman Myers said
I think it’s the mayor’s job.
Another Mr. Shearer asked the mayor if he heard anything
Weight from regional, on a another weight restriction ticket
Restriction on Broad Street? Mayor Sanford said no. Mr. Shearer
Ticket said I got a phone call from Tom from over at Ron
Miller’s office apparently they got two phone calls
a complaint from a constituent, some guy got a $2200.00
fine for Broad. St. Their inquiry was how long has
this been in effect and is it marketable. Mr. Shearer
said my answer was a long time and yes it is. I didn’t
know. Mayor Sanford said let me make a call. We normally
don’t call for something like that, like bad stuff like
happened this morning. I get calls on that. If I’m
asked I can get information, I’ll check on that. I asked
Pete to call me and he did but unfortunately I was going
to a meeting. We have not been able to contact, when he’s in, then I’m not. We will get in contact on the first ticket
on Broad Street to clarify that. Councilman Myers asked
the first ticket got denied? Mayor Sanford said yeah and
I talked to the officer, the issuing officer, who gave me
some information that when the truck driver’s company.
Supposedly the truck driver’s company called Pete. Pete
made a statement that helped their defense. I don’t want
to get very specific in a public forum about that
Councilman Myers asked anything for the mayor?
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 51
The secretary said I have an appointment to meet with
Shirley Sterner of Quality Office Technology to talk
Software about Dictaphone software on June 20 at 10AM.
Office The secretary said office hours tomorrow will be
Hours/ approximately 8AM until 1PM. The office will
Closing closed June 6, 9, 11, and 13th and will reopen
on June 16.
Fines Councilman Crull said at last month’s council
meeting under the Mayor and Police Report, I believe
John asked about who gets what as far as these fines.
And I do remember, we had a choice of going two
different ways. We would get at least half of it,
or three quarters of it. I think it was half and the
state gets half. What happened to that, I thought
we passed it that way? Councilman Myers said
I think that’s the way it is, we get half , and the
state gets half and then there is fees that are incurred.
Councilman Crull asked so we do get half? Councilman
Myers said unless something changed? Councilman
Crull said that’s not what is in here. It says here
the breakdown is that the county gets one quarter,
we get one quarter and the other fifty goes to the
state. I know we had that choice. But I didn’t think
we took that choice. Councilman Myers said I didn’t
think we had that choice, I thought that was the way,
I don’t know about the percentages, but I always
was a certain way, and that was the way it had
to be. Mayor Sanford said I’ll clarify that, I didn’t
know the answer to that. Councilman Crull asked
is that when we had the spell with the speed limit
signs up there? Councilman Myers said the weight
limits are different that’s an ordinance. There are
going to be service fees that you aren’t going to get
I don’t know. I thought there was, like with speed
Unfinished Business (cont.) Page 52
limit, if you get arrested for going faster than the
speed limit, there is a basic fine, the cost. I always
thought we split it fifty-fifty, we get fifty and the
state gets fifty. Is how I always thought it was. I
didn’t think we had a choice, it was just the way
it was. Councilman Crull said I just wanted to
bring it up, that’s not what’s in the minutes.
Councilman Myers said I don’t know how we
check that out. Mayor Sanford said I’ll call
the police or the district magistrate’s office.
Sam gave that information, I don’t know. But
I’ll clarify and bring it back next month.
Christmas Councilman Myers said the only thing I had, and
Magic Sandy you had put it in the packet, is Christmas
magic. We put that on our website last year. I
would like Bruce to do that again. Maybe you
can give in the minutes just to him. The secretary
said I sent it to him already. Councilman Myers
said I did. The secretary said I’ll call him about
it. Councilman Myers said alright, thank you.
Councilman Allar said that Christmas Magic,
you’re talking about a municipality picks a
date. Councilman Myers said we did that last year.
Councilman Allar said we pick a date and then.
Councilman Myers said we tell Jeri what date it is
and get to get a discount. Councilman Myers said
he put it on the website and it was a printable
ticket, that is how they did it. Buy one ticket get
one free, type deal. The secretary asked do you
let Bruce pick the date or do they tell you?
Councilman Myers said we actually pick the
date. The secretary said Bruce can pick the date?
Councilman Myers said yes and let the parks
know, then they assign it and advertise it as
well. That’s why it went out so soon.
Payment of Bills Page 53
Councilman Myers said we have some additional
ones to add to the list: Patty McGonagle:$25.00,
Kerry Scritchfield: $25.00, Met Ed: $51.68(borough
building), Met Ed: $115.00(st. lights), Met Ed: $42.16
(Yoe Park), York Newspaper: $554.96. I guess we
get to pay that again next month. That sort of
bothers me, I know what we did but there is another
500.00. They know by law that we have to do it.
Verizon:$44.60 and then MCI $17.43. A motion
was made by Councilman Howett to pay this bills
as listed with those additions. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Crull. All in favor.
Councilman Crull asked must those, but put in
a daily paper or can they put in this courier that
comes around once a week. Mr. Shearer said it
says in the borough code that it has to be a paper
of general circulation. Councilman Howett said
once a month is general. Councilman Myers said
they actually talked about letting the internet do
it. Councilman Crull said it would probably cost
one tenth of what the Daily Record costs for ads.
Councilman Myers said I think it has to go out
the general population is how its worded. Councilman
Crull said it goes to everyone in this borough.
Councilman Myers said I guess where their problem
is if I own property in Yoe Borough, and I live
in West Manchester, then I might not see it.
Its kind of, I look at, as no different as I look at
the prevailing wage thing. Okay its just a gimic,
it just increases the costs. So.
A motion was made by Councilman Crull to adjourn
the meeting at 10:18PM. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Howett. All in favor.