150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313 Page 1
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on
May 6, 2008 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street,
Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at
7:00PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Members in Attendance: Sam Snyder
Others in Attendance: Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
John Sanford, Mayor
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Dave Naylor, Resident at 93 E. Penna. Avenue
Todd Bowser, Subdivision Plans for 105-107 E. Penna.
RCCG Associates, Craig Lehman, Greg Weigle, Charlotte
Jeff Frederick, Resident of 320 Yoe Drive
Chuck Ryan, Resident of 310 Yoe Drive
A motion was made by Councilman Manns to accept the minutes of April 1, 2008 as presented. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.
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Councilman Snyder said first on the agenda, is Mr. Dave Naylor. Mr. Naylor
said I live at 93 E. Pennsylvania Avenue. I am here on a concern of North Charles Alley.
It runs between E. Clark Alley and Pennsylvania Avenue. I was just wondering if anyone
has any time frame when that was last actually used as an alley. Its no longer used as
an alley in the borough. Does anybody have any idea when it was used or if its ever
been used? Its right next to the new duplex. Councilman Snyder said I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t the other one. Mr. Naylor said it’s a grass strip. Councilman Snyder
said it’s the second one up. Mr. Naylor asked does anybody have any idea if the borough
has any intentions of ever using it? Councilman Snyder said to the best of my knowledge
it was never opened. It was proposed, as a proposed alley. It was never opened or maintained by the borough based on the advice, of our previous solicitor after a period of 21 years and the borough not formally adopting it. The borough can’t adopt it without a
petition from residents, 51% of the abutting property owners. So we’ve always referred that, it reverts back to private rights. There may be private rights involved with some of
the people around there, that have used it for private purposes. But as far as the borough
is concerned, its not a public alley. Mr. Naylor said okay, that’s all I need thank you.
Councilman Snyder said next on the agenda, Todd Bowser. Mr. Bowser said
good evening, 89 E. Pennsylvania Avenue. Dave’s neighbor, no less. Actually what
I’m here for this evening. These are all your copies by the way , Jason. What I’m here for, I own a property on the other side of Dave as well, on the other side of N. Charles
Alley, known as 105-107 E. Pennsylvania Avenue. Currently it’s a single tract of land,
with a duplex on it. Actually certificates of occupancy are being issued this week on that.
So that will be up and ready to roll. However we’re looking at, subdivide that parcel.
And by nature of a subdivision, of a duplex, there are zoning requirements that are
going to occur,on there setbacks, lot size and width. But also I have to go to the county
to do a subdivision. I’ve met with Terry Ruby and Sharon Reynolds, Jason, several
times and they’re actually walking through because this is basically going to be a two page subdivision. The front is the cover, and the second is basically a statement of
existing provisions now showing it in there. As you guys know, to go through the
entire process, I need to have Jason’s review and signature, as well as the borough’s final review and signature and my target is to have all that obtained on the June 3 meeting. But I didn’t want to just bring that through and drop it down and expect that. So my attention
Sam, this evening is to leave those copies, there are five copies there so Jason can do with them as he pleases so he and I can have dialogue over the course of the next four weeks
with my engineer and we can have a viable plan that meets Jason’s requirements by that
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meeting. So really tonight is really introductory and for me to answer any questions should there be any. Councilman Snyder said are you trying to make that June meeting
you’re talking about, were you talking the York County Planning Commission for their
approval? Mr. Bowser said there are actually two meetings that will occur, to be on
the July meeting for the planning commission, that’s where I’m at now. I need to have all zoning approvals as well. And my zoning hearing is May 22. So May 22 exempts me from June planning commission meeting. So what my goal is, you have a meeting on June 3 I believe, the next council meeting. The zoning hearing meeting will be May 22.
I’m optimistic so I come away with three variances, have the approval of the borough council and then I have until June 10th is my deadline of twenty one days to be on the July 1st planning commission meeting. Follow that trail. Councilman Snyder asked July 21st? Mr. Bowser said July 1st. Councilman Snyder said July 1st. Because then our next meeting after that would be. Mr. Bowser said it would be the same night. Councilman
Snyder said the same night. Mr. Bowser said so there might be some. Councilman Snyder said which would still be in our ninety days to give final. Solicitor Solymos said or you
would get a waiver, give us the waiver. Councilman Snyder said what we usually have done in the past is our engineer will review, bring those comments to council for the next meeting. He’ll of course be talking with you, that you will be making changes or have that dialogue already. That gives the council any time to have their input, because they’ve seen the documents for over a month, send it on to the planning commission. If the planning commission has additional comments, or they may pick on something that we would need a waiver by. It’ll then come back to us for a final review after they have their say. Mr. Bowser said what Sharon and Terry have done with me Jason is, they’ve actually, I talked to Sharon again today. We’re actually walking through the subdivision
ordinance as a team, the three of us. And we’re listing the modification and waiver request on the cover page. You’ll notice on there, there’s a total of five. She uncovered a potential sixth one today, that we may want to do as just a perfunctorily request. There’s some interesting nuances because to do it as a full blown requirement of preliminary and final even though preliminary is waived. I have to have preliminary data on the final plan. There are pieces that don’t necessarily apply when there are no earth disturbances. Its literally existing and its two parcels. There’s nothing changing about that. So they’re really taking an interest in making sure of what can be on the plan, and what doesn’t make sense to be on the plan. And coming out and stating, let’s put that on the cover page. Mr. Reichard asked have you formally filed the plan with the planning commission? Mr. Bowser said I could not formally file until both zoning and borough sign off. Councilman Allar asked Todd, why didn’t you do this first? Mr. Bowser said
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because the intent was different early on. Now what we are looking at doing is, it made sense to do it as a single unit use by right, duplex, two family on that lot, no problem. Then the opportunity came up to subdivide it so we take that opportunity now. That way the building is still up and generate revenue via sale or rental. Allow for time for that.
Councilman Allar asked and you have parking in the rear? Mr. Bowser said absolutely.
It met those requirements right out the gate. Mr. Bowser said and that’s why I brought it here, Pete is to get it here now and get the process started. Councilman Snyder said just one clarification, I’m not sure maybe Karen was on council at that time, but approximately three years ago we passed a new ordinance/resolution that any subdivision/land development fees are now passed on to the applicant. The secretary said a copy was given to Mrs. Bowser, 2008-01 resolution. Councilman Snyder said we update that on a yearly basis but it wasn’t just done this January. Mr. Bowser said that’s fine, Jason’s was like $15.00 an hour so I think I’m okay. Mr. Reichard said jokingly its just going to take a really long time. Mr. Bowser said yeah, I don’t think there is any official application that I need to bring to council at this point, leave it with you. Jason, I’m going to grab my card, it has my cell phone number on. Mr. Reichard said yes. Mr. Bowser said I can stop by your office. Mr. Reichard asked do you have copies of the plan at all in the office? I don’t need this many. Councilman Snyder said just leave a couple here and we can look at them. Mr. Reichard said I only need one copy. Mr. Bowser said, Sam I already met with Dan. As a matter of fact, Dan’s the one that walked everything to make sure it follows the way he would like. So he’s good to go. Mr. Reichard said I thought it would be filed with the planning commission, we’re the one looking for their comments for the plan. Mr. Bowser said no submission, and I said define submission, I can not even turn in an application until I have everything prior. Mr. Reichard said huh, that’s the first time I heard of it. Mr. Bowser said it may be fine for you but honestly I find it frustrating. Mr. Reichard said that’s the first I’ve heard of that, so. Mr. Bowser said sketch plans, I met with them already. Preliminaries are waived but. Its waving the review submit portion, they’re no longer permitting it. Mr. Reichard said its always been an advantage for the council to have comments to consider when reviewing the plan. Councilman Snyder said so you are saying they review it first. Mr. Reichard said they have the ultimate approval for it, the plan needs a land development ordinance. But I think their comments on the plan approval would be beneficial to council especially since
there’s three variances required. Mr. Bowser said well maybe that’s why Terry and Sharon are so willing to work me through it now up front, to get it the way they’re going to want it. Mr. Reichard said okay. Mr. Bowser said it kind of surprised me. I didn’t
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know the whole thing worked that way, it caught me off guard. Backwards from what I was use to. But that’s how its been. Mr. Reichard said okay, we’ll take a look at the plan
and make a few comments and take it from there. Mr. Bowser said give me a call and we can go through it, if you have any questions on it, as near as we possibly can for review at the next council meeting. So if you don’t mind making sure I’m on the agenda for the next meeting, June 3, 2008. Councilman Snyder said very good, thanks for coming.
Councilman Snyder asked any other visitors that would like to be recognized? Jeff Frederick, 320 Yoe Drive, the question is in reference to the retention pond in back yard, in my yard and in some other yards. My wife had conversation with the Conservation District and it is in review, where does that stand at? Also on Yoe Drive near the ball park, the road, every time we get a wind storm, branches are always on the road. I know myself they’ve been in my way many times. I think they are a hazard to cars going along there. Councilman Snyder asked, are they on the boundary at the park? Mr. Frederick said between the park and that gentleman’s driveway on this side, my side. You can’t miss it, if you go down Yoe Drive. All the trees that lined the whole park, there dried and rotted, every time it storms, park itself and the road, they’re on the road. Councilman Myers asked so there on park property? Mr. Frederick said I don’t know where the property lines are. Mr. Shearer said most of them are on Ron Crull’s property. Mr. Frederick said I know last fall, there must have been a large branch, I had to move it to drive through there. I know there were more branches. I know that tree itself is getting eaten alive by rodents, and bugs and eventually will be across the road. Councilman Snyder said we can have our borough maintenance man go out and direct him to see if there is any violation of the ordinance. As far as, its pretty hard to have ordinance say
someone has to maintain a tree. Because it really gets picky as to what constituents
a good tree, on what constituents a bad tree, until it actually comes down to a storm.
We can also have our maintenance man go back and make routine checks after storms to see if there’s any limbs and stuff on the road, so they can be removed. Councilman Myers said plus we can notify the homeowner as well. Councilman Snyder said let them it was a concern and brought up. Mr. Frederick said I appreciate that, its cheaper than having it land on someone’s windshield. Councilman Snyder said as far as your other issue on the retention pond back there. Jason did, we have had some more dialogue with a couple other neighbors up there. A week or so ago, we got some additional information, if you want to bring them up to speed on that. Mr. Reichard said the Conservation District is going to allow that basin to be converted, basically eliminated. There’s still one lot which is vacant which was the concern about why they wanted it to remain closed. They’ve
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decided that they are going to allow the contractor to put onsite controls, maybe a filter fabric fence, control settings. There are going to let that basin be converted. The contractor has to be out within in three weeks, basically mid May, to be able to do the work. Everything is set up and organized, its matter of it actually happening. Hopefully this month you should see someone out there to take care of it. Councilman Allar asked is that basin, is the water flowing or is it stagnate? Mr. Frederick said stagnate. It actually has increased in volume from year to year, it went down last summer. Councilman Allar said the county is putting out an alert here about West Nile Virus. Is there anything that we can have the contractor do to spray it? Mr. Reichard said pump it out. Councilman Allar said , you said that’s not an option, right? Mr. Reichard said well yeah it is an option, its just a matter of the contractor actually coming out to do the work. He planned to come out and fill it in and eliminate the structure all together. The only other alternative for the temporary standpoint, is to come out and pump the water out. I doubt they would come out and go to the expense of that knowing that plan to fill in the structure. If you can live with it for a couple weeks yet, that’s my recommendation.
Councilman Allar said here is a brochure. Councilman Snyder said prior to next month’s meeting, Dana, if you want to check on that and make sure that the contractor has indeed
started work on that. If not, we’ll know that at the next council meeting and then we can have Jason make further contact with them, to see what’s going on. We’ll keep on top of it that way. Councilman Allar asked do we have a pump? Councilman Myers said the fire company does, trash pump. Councilman Snyder said okay, thank you.
Councilman Snyder said any other visitor that would like to be recognized. Chuck Ryan from 310 Yoe Drive, said one of my concerns is already addressed via my neighbor about the pond. We just purchased a property at the beginning of October and when we first moved in I inquired with the lady in the office on what was going to be done with the road. Because when we pull our cars into the driveway, we’re scraping the heck out of the bottom the cars. I didn’t know if the road is actually going to be refinished or if its going to be left as is or if you have any idea what’s being done there. She wasn’t sure, she told me we’re right on the dividing line of Yoe Borough and York Township and
nobody is claiming all responsibility. Mr. Reichard asked there’s a curb out there,
what kind of reveal do you have coming into the driveway, is that where you are scraping right off the concrete? Mr. Ryan said right off of the road. Our driveway comes down like this, the road is sloped down a little bit, the driveway comes down like this. All they did was pour a little blacktop right on the hump. Every time we go over we scrape. If we had a truck, neither of us has a truck, we’re scraping the bottom of the cars.
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Councilman Snyder said isn’t that part of that subdivision plan, that requires them to improve so far out, to get the storm drains even to collect the water. Mr. Ryan said actually that was one point I wanted to bring up. The storm drains are about that far above the road, they’re not even draining. Mr. Reichard said there’s a wearing course that needs to be applied. I can contact, the contractor and find out when, I assume the contractor that did the work out there, is still on the hook for improvements. He had an approved plan, I did look at it, it calls for seven feet of improvements of existing roadway which did include that final surface so unless there was arrangements made with York Township to do that all at one shot, to do the whole road. They’re still responsible. I can
call about that also and check back with Sam throughout the week. Mr. Shearer said Tim Poff did advise me that they are looking at putting a wearing course on there, maybe a binder course, nineteen millimeter as base. I don’t think they were looking at putting the wearing course on yet, until there’s other work done out further on Yoe Drive. Mr. Reichard said so the township is going to do the final wearing, widening. Mr. Shearer said this the conversation I had with Tim Poff, he said they were going to start somewhere around Maple and go up through to about Heather Glen, to try to raise that up. Mr. Naylor said if I may, I’m an employee of York Township, its my understanding that the contractor is responsible for the road improvements there for whatever reason was unable to complete them. There’s some kind of hassle going on, I also heard there going to make some attempts at the township’s cost for now anyway to bring that up to grade and kind get that in. Councilman Snyder said you might want to check in on that. While we have a couple residents here from Yoe Drive, this is as good as time as any since we’re talking about that road. To bring up an ongoing issue that’s popped up, over the last couple weeks. We’re getting into a little bit of engineering but might as well, at this point. Approximately two weeks ago York Township posted the entire length of Yoe Drive, on both north and south side as no parking. That was news to us. And we since notified York Township, to tell them where the borough line was, which basically is at the end of that development down the middle of the road, there’s so confusion as to exactly where and when the borough line actually starts, meandering off on a southerly
point probably around the ball field. By the time you get to the ball field, the entire part of Yoe Drive is in York Township. So the borough line is straight, Yoe Drive isn’t. That is about the best way to explain it. When I contacted York Township, Scott Depoe, informed him that those signs need to come down, that his ordinance that they passed and traffic study that was accomplished was not affected and enforceable in Yoe Borough.
He then, basically did not address that issue, cause I already told him I had Dana bagged
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them so we wouldn’t have any residents get parking tickets along there, to just remove them. Instead of addressing that issue, he then came up and said, that complicates matters, because York Township as of tomorrow night is going to be opening bids to overlay the street. I think its going to be the binder course, I’m not sure about the overlay. But they’re planning on doing that. His next comment was why are we maintaining that street if Yoe Borough’s going to maintain a control over the street and now he wants money from Yoe Borough to pay a fair portion of that road. I was going to bring that up to council as far as what council wants to offer. I spoke with Randy Beck in at York County Planning, he sent me unto a Mr. Bubb, he instructed us since there’s no agreement in place for maintaining Yoe Drive. Council can tell York Township go ahead and pave it if you want. Thank you. So there’s going to be some discussion here among council as far as what if anything, council wants to offer. I think if we do have John Adams or the subsequent builders, Jeff Firestone, on the hook to improve it out to that point, seven feet I think it was brought up. Then Yoe Borough would only be responsible if they so choose to make a contribution for a certain amount of foot for one lane of channel on Yoe Drive, either they accept that offer or they don’t. Where that goes from that point, we haven’t found out yet. But they weren’t too happy when I pushed the issue that they encroached on the borough boundary with no parking signs. Mr. Frederick asked, may I add a comment to that, the widening of the road that they did, really doesn’t hinder two lane traffic at all. The widening of the road if you go to the top of Yoe, ball park side of Yoe, there’s a stump in the road,the width of a car, the other end at the ball park, anyone that parks on the side of the road that the residents are on, actually it doesn’t impede the traffic at all, there’s thirty feet distant across. There’s ample road, many roads that are even less that have no parking. People can move around each other. Councilman Allar said you’re further down the hill, do you know is there a speeding issue out there, particularly higher at the top of hill, does it limit line of sight pulling out? Mr.Ryan said my opinion is absolutely. Mr. Frederick said it’s a race track, driving motorcycles late at night. Councilman Allar said we are obviously in contact with Chief Gross, maybe the situation we can make him aware of the situation. Mr. Frederick said a prime example of what happened over here the other day, there was a yellow truck and another vehicle, its not that they did it once but they actually did it twice, you can see the brown marks here, the people that live in this house had to hear it, they sat there on the hill, with their brakes on, and spin it out. It sounded like it was coming into our house. Not only the first guy but the second guy did it. That’s the kind of stuff that they do. I know we live in the valley, hear a lot of noise. Then they come down our road. Councilman Snyder said as far what York Township’s reasoning was why they did what they did, we have no idea.
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We were never contacted even told that they were contemplating this, never asked where the borough line is, it just came as much as a shock to us as it did to the residents up there when the signs just sort of materialized. So I guess while we’re talking about that, so these residents sort of have an idea as far as what way council’s going. I know there was discussion among council approximately two years ago about giving ownership up of Yoe Drive to York Township. In light of what is going on now, of course , I don’t think that would be advisable. Cause once you sign off, according to the Borough Code we have to enter into an agreement and then of course either municipality could take over ownership of it. Knowing what York Township would do with it, now we’re sort of. It wouldn’t look good on our part if we did it now. Councilman Allar asked are we going to have discussion later? Councilman Snyder said we might as well have it now while the residents are here, because if there is any chance they’re going to have no parking, I think
they need to know it. Personally, my personal opinion, we can not enter into an agreement to give them Yoe Drive, now. We wanted to two years ago, enter into the agreement. Now they basically put our backs against the wall, if we do it now, we know what exactly they’re going to do, is post it no parking, and that’s not fair to the residents. Especially when I got four phone calls, of five of the people that live up there, saying that would adversely affect them not having parking there. So at that point I think we accept responsibility for the road that’s in the municipality and now we either say, we offer them fair compensation as far as one lane of travel for x amount of feet based on your bid that you get tomorrow night. Or we just say, we’re not in the position to help you right now and thanks. If you don’t want to pave that one little of section, when we get the money we’ll do it ourselves. Personally I think that would be bad on our part,because its definitely going to be cheaper doing it under their bid. But. Councilman
Allar said they have a lot of developments going up there, certainly not being for Yoe.
Are they looking for money or are they looking for in kind services such as plowing, cindering? What do you think? Councilman Snyder said at this point because they are opening bids tomorrow, I think that’s probably open for discussion. Councilman Myers said we’re not going to know what the bids are, square feet wise, tell them that. Councilman Snyder said its just a matter of negotiating what the square footage is. I did talk to Jason ahead of time, cause I figured they give us crap about where the borough line actually is, to run up some figures for doing a survey out there. That if we want to get particular and say hey look we’ll split the cost of the survey and find out exactly where the borough line is and we’ll maintain this part and you maintain that part. That figure?
Mr. Reichard said $6000.00 and that’s because the borough boundary references
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two stone piles in the middle of Yoe Drive, that probably aren’t there. So all of sudden, now you’re doubling the length you have to do, to be constant. Councilman Allar said we have two issues here, the current issue and a permanent maintenance issue. Councilman Snyder said we can’t enter into a permanent maintenance agreement without. Councilman Allar said assume that we take some kind of responsibility. Councilman Snyder said the responsibility is there, I mean I think what can be done since we can’t enter into any agreement, either one way or another. Either we take it over completely or they take it over completely, its as. Scott was a little perturbed when I brought this up at the last minute. Hey you’re the people that didn’t tell us what is going on. And cause of this, bid that they are opening up tomorrow night. Look, I’ll bring it to the council table, what council does with it but. I tried to get an agreement two years ago and nothing was ever put into writing. Now I think if we go back and say we’ll over them $2000.00, $4000.00 and just walk away from it. He said about we’ve been maintaining it all these years. Its like what maintenance have you done for the past forty years, other than snow plow and our maintenance man does his own snow plowing back there. I think it’s a joint effort of York Township, when they come through they plow it, when Yoe Borough goes up Maple and goes down through, he plows it. Its been a joint effort for that so the only issue
actually becomes the paving and paving hasn’t been done back there for at least forty years. So. Councilman Noll said I think it would be good to look at least at what that agreement would be, simply because of some of the other things that we’re trying to do with York Township, with the dam and dredging and everything else. Councilman Snyder said and that’s why I don’t have a problem going back and saying, based on your bid we’ll pay the bid amount based on so many square foot. I mean they have their bid marked down as, I don’t know how those bids are bid out, square yardage or whatever.
Mr. Reichard said its tonnage, because how rough the road is. Councilman Snyder said but I’m sure Jason can easily figure out. Have Jason go out there or Dana go out there,someone say look, we’ll take from like the ball field up to the end of the John Adams subdivision one lane and have Jason worked up some figures and say that would equate to so many tons. Councilman Noll asked do we have any idea of how long of an area are we talking about one lane not the whole ? Councilman Snyder said it would be just one lane. Councilman Noll said okay. Mr. Reichard said its fourteen foot wide where the new curbing is and should go down to nine foot wide where the development stops there where the culvert is, and goes back up this way. Councilman Noll asked what are we talking about 500 feet? Mr. Reichard said its roughly 483 feet from the end of that
inlet at John Adams to the culvert, so almost double that. Roughly a thousand feet by
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nine. Nine thousand square yards. With oil at $121.00 a barrel now. The secretary said we can’t use liquid fuels because its not an adopted street of the borough? Mr. Shearer actually said we can use liquid fuels for our streets that aren’t adopted, we can use liquid fuels in the alleys. Rick Levan had mentioned before about writing a letter saying basically we have ownership of this road and he did say if we did put that in writing, it would probably put that through that we claim of ownership of that lane because it wasn’t ever formally adopted. Mr. Reichard said its in the borough but its not adopted. Councilman Snyder said a 33 foot right of way was actually adopted by York Township.
Councilman Noll said but we still maintain it even thought its not adopted? Councilman Snyder said correct. Technically said they only get liquid fuels to the end of Crulls driveway. We don’t get anything for this. Councilman Allar said we get up to Main Street? Councilman Snyder said we get nothing for up there. Mr. Shearer said that and Orchard Street, we discussed that before. That’s what we discussed last year, they weren’t really trying to claim it. Councilman Noll said if we do this does it make sense that we try adopt? Councilman Snyder said at that point it becomes cost prohibitive by the time we send a survey crew out there to survey that one lane, then passed an ordinance, then advertise. We’re not going to get, I think Dana figured out, maybe $10 to $12 bucks a year in liquid fuels money and we’re going to spend $3000 to $4000 to formally adopt and put it on the books which is why I keep thinking the easiest thing to do is to say look we calculate, I think Jason said 900 to 1000 feet we’ll take one lane of that and we’ll offer you based off of your yardage or tonnage for up to 1000 feet. Councilman Noll said so its best. Councilman Snyder said then we can do that on the books as a contribution because we haven’t formally adopted our lane we can’t use our liquid fuels money for it. Councilman Noll asked from a negotiating standpoint do you
think its better to say to them what we feel is their compensation or should be go to them and tell them what we want to give. Councilman Snyder said I want to go to them and tell them, they’re the ones that put us in the predicament. Councilman Allar said or do we wait and see what the bid comes in? Councilman Snyder said why, we have no choice, either we accept this and we tell them screw you, if you want to pave it you go right ahead and pave it, otherwise we’ll maintain what’s in the borough. Then we’re forced to have actually do that in the very near future cause Jason said that road does need attention and I think at that point, us going out there to get one lane done on our own is going to be more cost prohibitive. Councilman Allar said I understand that, I’m just saying that depending on what the bids are, maybe might it might come in under the original offer. Councilman Snyder said that’s why I wouldn’t offer a set figure it would be, a thousand foot at nine foot wide. Mr. Reichard said you may want to see what the numbers come in
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at first. Solicitor Solymos said that is a good suggestion. Councilman Noll said that’s why I said as a negotiating standpoint that they can throw a number out. Solicitor Solymos said I think you know that you can counteroffer. Councilman Snyder said we give them, if it comes in, what do you think a thousand foot based on? Mr. Reichard said $7,000.00 based on $55.00 a ton roughly. Councilman Snyder said I was thinking about eight or nine and I was thinking that’s what you pay to put a drive way in. Councilman Allar said we don’t know what they are getting. Councilman Snyder said at that point, even if we paid the full seven grand, we’ll pay it over a three year period, $2000.00 a year over the next three years as a contribution as long as they get they feel is a fair amount for it, based on their bid. Councilman Noll said that’s what I said something like that offer, to see, I think we have a better negotiating point, they like it. Councilman Allar said I think it’s the case of just giving them something, as long as they feel that we are giving them some kind of contribution. Councilman Snyder said I can knock that down, we’ll pay nine hundred feet. I’m not taking responsibility for the John Adams thing because if indeed the developer is on the hook to take it out seven foot. If they want to do it, they can do it otherwise, we’ll wait and have the developer do it. That’s their choice. We’ll take care of our lane. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to proceed with negotiations with York Township to find out what the bid is, and tentatively say we were looking at approximately 900 foot of a nine foot wide lane and see where that money comes in and bring that back to council without excepting anything. Let them know this is what we are proposing saying what we feel is in Yoe Borough. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
So we’ll keep Yoe Drive, we’ll keep you with parking and I’ll ask them again to take the signs down. Mr. Shearer said they’re gone.
Councilman Snyder asked any other visitors that would like to be recognized?
Mrs. Frederick said I came in, my husband was here about the pond. Councilman Snyder said that was already addressed then.
Councilman Snyder said since there are no other visitors, I would like to temporarily recess the regular meeting at 7:47PM and open up a scheduled property maintenance appeal hearing for RCCG& Associates.
Property Maintenance Appeal Hearing for RCCG & Associates Page 13
Councilman Snyder said first off,what we’ll try to do in conducting the hearing, I’ll let you know, I’m assuming you are representatives from RCCG. State your name please.
Mr. Weigle said my name is Greg Weigle and this is Charlotte Sullivan of 862 Nightlight Drive. Mr. Lehman said my name is Craig Lehman of 750 Heritage Hills Drive.
Councilman Snyder said first I will inform you that we’re going to conduct a hearing like you would hold any other hearing that you go through like at a district justice office. I will you inform you that the burden of proof is on the code official to prove his case.
So we’ll allow him to go first. And then of course for you to present your defense. However, before sit down, there is an issue that the council as the appeals board needs to address which is more of an administrative issue. That issue is, whether we hear this appeal hearing tonight or not. Two issues, the letter was dated March 28, 2008, service was received by March 31st based on a phone conversation from Ms. Sullivan to the code official. Fifteen days which the appeal had to be filed by, left us with April 14th. The appeal based on the check was received, check was written to after that date which was the April 21st. The secretary said the check was dated April 18th and the check was received by the secretary on April 21st. Councilman Snyder said which at that point the application for appeal was a week and half stale. The second issue, whether the appeal is germane or not is the fact, the request for appeal there’s no applicant signature on the paperwork. So theoretically we have no, we have no way to prove. Direction from our solicitor. Solictor Solymos said you have two procedural errors. The first and primary one is the lateness. The reference is very clear, the letter is very clear, that there are fifteen days to perfect the appeal. The appeal was not perfected within the fifteen days. And so the sole issue then is, the following issue is that whether it should be signed or not. That is a procedural error. I think for the board’s benefit, the board may waive both of those errors. I think the first error is a substantial one. A failure to comply and file within fifteen days. So its up to the board. Borough Council will have to make a determination of whether they want to reject this appeal on the basis of failure to comply to procedural requirements of the ordinance and specific notice requirements as provided to the appellants. That would be the first item on the agenda for the board, borough council. Or does borough council want to waive those procedural errors and proceed. Councilman Snyder said at this point. Mr. Lehman said there’s some information that hasn’t been revealed in regards to the lateness issue. I spoken to Dana about coming out on a Friday, the last day of the window. He said that Friday that I called him, I had been out of town. I handle the day to day issues. He told me that Friday wasn’t going to work, so we went an appointment for 10AM on Monday. Now if I had known that this was going to be, I’d have gotten the ball rolling. My understanding was that I was by the time
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I had to get the ball rolling. I said can we walk around and explain to me what was needed. So I could make a decision as to whether file an appeal or not. He came out on Monday, I decided to file the appeal. That’s where I got the 18th and not the 14th. I could have easily filed it that Friday if I knew. As matter of fact I even said to Dana, its fifteen business days correct? I had it marked on my calendar as to when I had to have it filed by. And to proceeded to get out his calendar and check to see when it was to be filed. Councilman Snyder said and unfortunately he doesn’t have the authority to make that call, about the time. Mr. Lehman said what I’m saying is , that I asked do I need to file this now, when I talked to him Friday. Councilman Snyder said I fully understand sir, what this board needs to determine now, because fifteen days, if you go into any court of law you will find that fifteen days, is fifteen days. And sir please. Mr. Lehman said I’m not debating that, I did contact him, within the prescribed time. If I had been directed to do so, I would have filed the appeal, that was my intention. My, so much is to pony up and file right now and not let if go until Monday. Councilman Snyder said and sir your letter clearly stated that an appeal needed to be filed within fifteen days with the borough secretary, which is this office. By contacting Dana is not filing, a written appeal with the borough secretary. I understand what you’re saying. Mr. Lehman said I said, when I called, Dana’s name was on the letter. What do I have to do be in compliance? So there’s no way for me to know, that Dana’s not the point of contact, so much to fill out. You all are members of this board, so you know that, I didn’t know that. So to me I was acting to get into compliance and it took me to do it. Charlotte Sullivan said we appreciate your consideration. Councilman Snyder said the board needs to determine what. Ms. Sullivan said I understand, we appreciate that. Councilman Snyder said Mr. Shearer, at any time did you represent yourself as being borough secretary. Mr. Shearer said no. Councilman Snyder said Dana had a conversation with him. Solicitor Solymos said he’s not the secretary. The board can disclose to waive on a special date, that would be up to council. There is a technical violation no question about it, its clear. But I think borough council has the right to waive, if there are circumstances that borough council feels that might justify granting a waiver under the circumstances. Councilman Snyder said we need to make a determination, like Pete’s saying, we can waive the issue. I don’t want to be setting a precedence, I mean. Councilman Myers said John Doe comes in next month and says I missed it, you know. Do we set? Solicitor Solymos said what they’re arguing is that there is an astople issue, the municipal should be astopped to denying this appeal because of certain of action or in action on the part of a municipal official, or one that would have the appearance of authority if not authority. The question is Dana did you tell
Property Maintenance Appeal Hearing for RCCG & Associates Page 15
them they don’t have to appeal for three days, you don’t have to appeal until Monday, you can talk about the appeal. Mr. Shearer said I don’t remember Mr. Lehman specifying
on the eighteenth, his interest in appeal. I do not recall that as far as the phone conversation. He requested to meet me, to meet and discuss the issues. I informed him that, that Friday would not work. I set an appointment for Monday, April 21st. He called me on Friday April 18th. Mr. Lehman said when I called him, I had just gotten back from being out of town. Solicitor Solymos said sir, raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony that you are giving, and have given here before is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and so you shall answer on the last great day? Mr. Lehman said yes. Dana raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony that you are giving and have given is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and so you shall answer on the last great day? Mr. Shearer said I do. Councilman Snyder said we weren’t suppose to be getting into the swearing in yet because we still. Solicitor Solymos said we’re getting into side issues now that are significant. There’s no question in my mind, that if none of this had come up. It would be my recommendation to reject the appeal. It may still be my recommendation to reject the appeal. The bottom line is you were called on the fourteenth. Mr. Shearer said Friday,the eighteenth. Solicitor Solymos said Friday the eighteenth, you were called four days after the appeal period ran. Mr. Lehman said that’s not what I was told, fifteen business days. Solicitor Solymos asked who told you fifteen business days? When on the eighteenth? Mr. Lehman said that’s correct. Solicitor Solymos said and that was fifteen days. Mr. Shearer said, Mr. Lehman said fifteen business days at the time, at the time without looking at the letter, I did not read what I had typed, as a statement of fifteen days. I was in error from understanding it wasn’t business days and after researching the matter I gave him fifteen business days which would be that Friday. And I advised him if you would like to appeal on the April 21st when we met at Church St. So on the 21st I did inform him of his right to appeal. Mr. Lehman said on the 21st, on the 18th I called and set up a meeting and you said, you couldn’t anything until Monday. If you’d have said you need to initiate filing or something its in the rules, I would have responded then rather than Monday. Solicitor Solymos said on the eighteenth what you’re saying sir, is that because this codes officer didn’t specifically tell you to file your appeal. Mr. Lehman said I told him this is the last day of the appeal. Solicitor Solymos asked do you recall him saying that on the eighteenth, that this is the last day? Mr. Shearer said I don’t recall. Councilman Snyder said you are saying he called you on the 21st and you said, if you want to appeal today, go ahead and file your appeal. Mr. Shearer said that’s right, that’s when we met. Councilman
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Snyder said that it was during that meeting, you said we’ll if you want to appeal, go ahead and file your appeal. Mr. Shearer said that’s right. Councilman Snyder said that to me is not, putting the borough on the hook ,that’s no different than a police officer stopping you with a citation, if you want to fight go ahead and fight it. If the board decides not to have the hearing. Solicitor Solymos said the question I have, fifteen days is fifteen days involved, to call four days after the fifteen days on an interpretation that you have that it is business days, is one that is inappropriate to make,its fifteen days. Mr. Lehman said I asked. Solicitor Solymos said you asked after the fifteen business days. Mr. Lehman said I asked on the fifteenth day, is this my last day. It says that March 28th is the date of this letter. So I figured out. Solicitor Solymos asked if he called on the fourteenth? Mr. Lehman said I called. Solicitor Solymos said you called after fifteen days, you made a determination that fifteen days meant business days. Mr. Lehman said I only asked the question, I was offered that it was okay, but then I ‘m too late. But the question is about the appeal. Solicitor Solymos said what I don’t understand, why didn’t you call on the fourteenth and say this is the fifteenth day, don’t I have fifteen business days till the eighteenth to file my appeal? Mr. Lehman said the question is why didn’t I call on the fourteenth? Solicitor Solymos said yes, that was fifteen days. Mr. Lehman again, the way I was looking at it was, that fifteen days meant fifteen business days. If I was wrong, okay I was wrong. But I was looking at it as a Saturday and Sunday wouldn’t count as a day, because there was no business transaction. I did speak to official about the questions I had. Councilman Myers said it says fifteen days, that’s pretty explicit right there. Solicitor Solymos said it can’t be any clearer. Councilman Snyder said even in any court of law, if you have thirty days to appeal that includes Saturdays and Sundays. Solicitor Solymos said sir, I think we understand your position. Does the borough have any questions of this individual? Councilman Myers asked you got the same letter, we got right? Mr. Lehman said yes. Councilman Myers said alright. Councilman Snyder said I personally, I make a motion that we reject the appeal based on the time constraints not meeting the borough code and refund the application fee. I mean because no hearing was held. In good conscience I would not say, we take your $250.00 because that wouldn’t right. Seth you had. Solicitor Solymos asked you had a motion? Councilman Snyder said I made the motion, evidently Seth had a question. Solicitor Solymos said you can question all he wants, we need a second then he call the question. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. Solicitor Solymos said we can discuss it now before we have the vote. Councilman Noll said my only question, for the applicant when he was talking about time period. Were you out of town from the time you got this information until that Friday? Mr. Lehman said not that entire time. Councilman Noll said so you just
Property Maintenance Hearing Appeal for RCCG & Associates Page 17
choose to wait for? Mr. Lehman said no, I didn’t know the specifics of it, I wasn’t even aware that my tenant complained about it, so when I got back to town and got my mail, I was a couple days behind. As soon as I realized that this was upon us, that it was going to happen right then, I got through to him. Councilman Snyder said and Dana, you were contacted about this letter on the 31st March by an individual? Mr. Shearer said Ms. Sullivan. Councilman Snyder said so as of March 31st, someone from the associates had notice. Mr. Shearer said that’s correct. Councilman Snyder said I have a motion and a second. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect the vote is unanimous. The appeal is being rejected on the fact that it did not meet the time constraints for the appeal to be timely filed. Refund of the appeal fee shall be immediately set forth from the borough secretary to the applicant on record. Any other discussion? If not this hearing is completed, at 8:08PM.
Mr. Weigle said there’s only one issue that we’re going to talk about, that has to do with windows and I guess the issue was and concern is. I’m not sure how to go about addressing this, that’s why I’m asking. Councilman Snyder said you can now ask it as a visitor. Mr. Weigle said okay, thank you. Councilman Snyder said sir, maybe to keep your time down, one thing that I would have brought up, for your own benefit, because you have other rental units that Dana has not inspected yet. And of course the hearing is already concluded, this isn’t a matter of that. Based on what you had wrote, I would direct you to ask Dana, to see section, 1… let me get it for you. As matter of fact you can have my copy if you want it. Section 101.3, which the intent of the ordinance is to bring all non compliant buildings into compliance. There is no grandfathering of the building. So even if , like five years from now, if we change this code, and say that we want everybody to have a pink receptacle in a bathroom, then the next inspection you’re going to get a violation notice, that says you need to put a pink receptacle in the bathroom. Solicitor Solymos said I would have to advise borough council at that point, that would be unconstitutional, however if they say we want upgraded fire alarms. You’re getting updated fire alarms. But at this point is well taken. As long as its public welfare. Mr. Weigle said I understand that. Councilman Snyder said it was just based on, we’re not taking any testimony, its just based on what you wrote, that you would need to bring your building up. This was just one of your apartments, I suggest you work closely with Dana,
he can go over and I’m sure , he can do a pre inspection maybe with you. And say look that these are things that may be coming up and then when the actual inspection comes through, its not a. Mr. Weigle said the things that you did mention, that’s fine. The
Visitors(cont.) Page 18
question I had, when we bought the property three years ago, there was a certification provided by the borough that everything was in accordance with the code. Its my understanding from looking at your ordinances, that, that code hasn’t changed, it was in affect before we brought the property three years ago. So my concern is, is something that we didn’t cause as being in affect. I’m not doubting what he is citing in the code is correct, its more, the appeal was sort of based on this issue, that we got some certification from the borough that this was okay and we didn’t do anything, the ordinance was in affect before this and now we’re being cited for it. That was my. Councilman Snyder said an probably, the only certification you may have had, was a prior inspection notice, and at that point all I can say is, if it just happened not to get caught by a previous inspector. It happened just not to get caught. Mr. Weigle said I don’t know much about it, but this is what we got. Solicitor Solymos said you folks can look at it but we’ve had the hearing, now we’re really getting into the hearing again. Mr. Weigle said no, its because I need to get some questions, I appreciate you taking your time. Mayor Sanford asked is this ours to keep? Mr. Weigle said its my only copy. I just wanted to show you what we got, so I could show you that we did have something, at settlement in 05. That needed to be provided so the settlement could take place. I guess. Councilman Snyder said all this was, was just a copy of the license. Just a copy of the license, and a copy of our ordinance.
Mr. Lehman said the property was inspected as far as I was concerned. Councilman Snyder said well not really, these licenses are issued without an inspection taking place.
Mr. Lehman said not withstanding, the property was inspected. We can document that.
Solicitor Solymos said gentlemen, we’re done, folks. You’ve made a determination. If you have a question I think you should take it up with Dana as, I’m sure it has to do
with codes. Mr. Lehman said well no, it doesn’t, I have a question on how the sixty day process works. At the end of the sixty day process, which we have sixty days to make the necessary improvements to the code, what happens after that? Does Dana come out, do I call him, to schedule? Councilman Snyder said after the sixty days he would call to set up an inspection to see if those repairs have taken place. Mr. Lehman said I’m sorry, if he determines something not to be in complaint, I wish. Councilman Snyder said at that point, he would only be doing a re inspection only for that one issue on that. He hasn’t done the other inspections on the other buildings, you may want to set that up with him at that time but. Mr. Lehman said not on the other ones, I’m just talking about this unit, there was. Solicitor Solymos said, he’s going to go to a district magistrate and you’re going to get fined. Conceivably for each day that violation continues. Mr. Lehman said what I’m saying, if I want to actually have the hearing, like we have now. Solicitor Solymos said you have to appeal that to the York County Court of Commons Pleas,
Visitors(cont.) Page 19
you’re not getting a hearing on this again. Mr. Lehman said all I’m trying to have an understanding is what I have to do, so now. Solicitor Solymos said that’s up to you.
Councilman Snyder said come in compliance within sixty days. Solicitor Solymos said yeah, that would be next move as suggested by the municipality. If you don’t like that answer I suggest you contact your attorney. Mr. Lehman said at the end of sixty days if Dana comes out, goes through and says yes or no, whether we’re in compliance or not. Councilman Snyder said correct, to see the notice that you were sent to see if you’ve completed these items. Mr. Lehman said so its up to me to call him. Councilman Myers said he doesn’t know when the works done. I strongly suggest you get on that, so that way if he does come, and you can correct something within that time period. Councilman Snyder said if you don’t contact him within the sixty days to set up an inspection, he’s going to assume that work was not done, make contact and tell you that he is pulling your license. And now you’re in abeyance of the ordinance and we go to the district magistrate and file civil action against you. So if you get the work done before the sixty days, you just call him and say the works been done, come out and do the inspection. Mr. Lehman said so there is actually no opportunity to have a hearing. Solicitor Solymos said you don’t get a hearing, if you don’t like what’s going. I can’t give you legal advice. I represent this municipality but I can tell, go talk to a lawyer if you don’t like what happened tonight. And that person can guide you to what remedies if any you may have. This board, I’m not going to allow this board to tell you what you should be doing legally next stop. Mr. Lehman said I was just wondering about the hearing. Solicitor Solymos said that’s the understanding, its very clear, you need a lawyer to tell you what your next step is. Mr. Lehman said it may be clear to you, but I’m not clear. Solicitor Solymos said well I’m sorry, its obvious you weren’t clear all along. Councilman Snyder said we tried to hold a hearing and the hearing was not allowed to take place because the council voted
the application was not timely filed therefore the application for appeal has been rejected.
Mr. Lehman said so it’s a one time. Councilman Snyder said you had fifteen days to file the application and council made the determination. Mr. Lehman, said even that. Solicitor Solymos said you’re going to start to give him legal advice, I’m telling you no more gentlemen alright. You’re appeal has been rejected. Period. Alright. You can talk to a lawyer about what your remedies are, I’m not telling you what your legal remedies are, I can’t advise you and borough council. Mr. Weigle asked can I ask one more question, its not about the appeal but its somewhat related, I’ve gotten a call from an inspector in Red Lion, I believe the gentlemen’s name is Shaw. Councilman Snyder said Dan Shaw, our zoning officer. Mr. Weigle said any rate, I gotten the call a week ago, after we started
Visitors (cont.) Page 20
repairs and I called back, that my understanding that when you’re doing repairs, there is no permit because there’s no improvement or anything, dry wall anyway. So I went ahead and we’re just about finished with this repairs, we have one more visit from the contractor to finish it. Today I had a call back to him. They gave me a permit. I wasn’t trying to avoid anything but because of the delay. Its almost done. I wasn’t trying to get around anything. Councilman Snyder said building permits and the UCC, is two different animals. And also you have to understand if you have multiple units, each unit is
handled separately so where you may have an appeal on one unit and you’re doing the repairs on another you still need to get all the things for that unit. Mr. Weigle said I understand its just, really again. I was somewhat confused, about the need for a permit just to do repairs and then at this point. Councilman Snyder said you aren’t the only one who is confused by the UCC, people call me and say I plan to do this or this, do I need a permit. I tell them to call your code official. Councilman Noll said basically the ordinance overrides the UCC had guidelines whether they are adopted or not, so minimum standard that a municipality has the ability to do. Mr. Weigle said I guess my concern is, again, its almost finished. For a couple sheets of drywall it seems a permit is kind of. I’m asking with the situation, would it be okay. The secretary gave Mr. Weigle the permit applications. Mr. Weigle said I know for the windows and stuff that we need a permit, I understand all that, it was just the confusion on this other one. The work is done, I hear I need a permit. It adds to the confusion. I know we would need it for the window.
Solicitor Solymos said won’t you be in tomorrow Sandy. The secretary said I’m giving them everything right now. Councilman Snyder said if you talk with them, they’ll be able
to tell you about the work that we’re talking about that you had on the appeal, you may be able to combine that under one permit. If that’s what you’re trying to get at as far as. Mr. Weigle said yeah, I recognize that this drywall is already up because with the delay. Because of this delay, that was my concern. Councilman Snyder said they may be able to lump that together under one building permit because that’s the probably with the UCC they look at buildings and you’re looking at doing the repair to buildings where is, this particular issue of dealing with dwelling units, if you have three units in your building, they’re handled separately, whereas when you’re looking at building permits with UCC, you’re looking at the building as a whole. So, there’s a little bit of difference there. Councilman Noll said the normal rule of thumb you need a permit for everything at each physical address. So you can do multiple items at a property at each single address, if you have three addresses there for that property you would need three permits. Councilman
Snyder said and that’s why we just defer everything to our code official. Thanks.
Solicitor’s Report Page 21
Solicitor Solymos said I’m sorry if I cut you off a little bit. Councilman Snyder said he wasn’t getting what I was saying. Solicitor Solymos said what was going to happen Sam is later on, you were going to be misquoted in support of something he wanted to do.
I’m sorry I apologize but when I see things like this, you might say that’s dumb, dumb like a fox folks. You get yourself trapped. Because you called on the eighteenth that was post fifteen days, someone knows I’m fifteen days, oh its business days isn’t it. Trust me that’s most likely would happen. Can we call for an executive session cause I have some legal stuff, we need to discuss, before we get into the rest of my reports. Mayor Sanford said I have to say something else for the record. I think you need to calm down a little bit address people more professional. That’s just my opinion but I think that was uncalled for. You need to treat people with a little more respect. You’re absolutely right but just tone it down. Solicitor Solymos said comments noted and I apologize if I offended and I was strong. Councilman Snyder said I was starting to feel that way myself cause how many times can I tell you this, you lost your appeal rights. I didn’t know how else to get it across to him. Mr. Shearer said I had that with the same person. The secretary said he revealed he had the same problem with him. He is dumb like a fox.
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to go into executive session at 8:27PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Reconvening of the Regular Council Meeting at 8:53PM
Councilman Snyder said for the record, let it be, that we discussed potential litigation and the following motions are to be made. A motion was made by Councilman Allar that the solicitor needs to contact Craig Dallmeyer for the reasons as discussed in the executive session with regard to his subdivision or lack thereof. The solicitor is suppose to send the proposal from Yoe Borough Council as was presented in proper format to Penn Waste for their acknowledgement. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Ordinance Solicitor Solymos said we have an ordinance that has been sent to
Sent York County Planning Commission with regards to the suggested
Zoning Changes changes in the zoning ordinance regarding buffering and setbacks for
developments in the area where we were involved with all the
litigation/zoning hearings. Also I would like to get authority to
advertise that for adoption at our next regular meeting. If we get
comments back fine, if we don’t we may have to delay it. But I
want that advertised, because under the pending ordinance rule,
once we advertise an amendment to the zoning ordinance we can
begin to enforce it. I don’t want someone coming in the back door
on us. Councilman Snyder asked does it just have to be advertised
or we have to act on it? Solicitor Solymos said the advertisement is
just a notice that you’re going to have a public hearing. But once
you advertised it under the MPC, you may then enforce that
ordinance as drafter. Councilman Snyder said so we can hold
the hearing three months now? Solicitor Solymos said yes because
under the MPC, the idea being that if someone sees an ordinance
is going to be changed they’ll have a rush to file under the old
ordinance. Interestingly enough with land developments, they’re
not allowed to do that. A motion was made by Councilman Allar
for Pete to advertise the ordinance for buffering and setbacks and
the zoning changes. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Manns. All in favor. The secretary asked when that is advertised then
does Dan Shaw then get a copy of that right way, does he do anything
with enforcement of that at all? Councilman Snyder said he would
only for a request for special exception. The secretary asked it would
only be him that’s enforcement. Councilman Snyder said the zoning
officer would but the only reason he would need a copy of it, if he
got a special exception. Solicitor Solymos said he should have it
because all he’ll have is the old ordinance if someone files. And
he’ll need a copy of that. The secretary said I’ll need a copy of that.
I only have the notes. Solicitor Solymos said you don’t have my
proper ordinance? The secretary said no and I need the date that
its advertised so I can copy that to give to him.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 23
Curfew Ord. Solicitor Solymos said the curfew ordinance has been drafted. I’ll
advertise that. All I did there is changed it from 11PM to 6AM as
opposed to 12 to 6. Councilman Snyder said that’s correct.
Letter Councilman Snyder said just two other follow up items. One was the
To The letter to be sent to the property owner. Solicitor Solymos said right,
Property that’ll be coming out this week. Councilman Snyder said for the
Owner, Mr. Reidel property. There was when Dawn left, it went bad. Dave
Reidel Cook was suppose to send that out, we talked about that at
council. I don’t know if he told Dawn to draft it and he’ll look over
it and it never got drafted. Councilman Allar said Pete, give me a
call so we can recap. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll call you tomorrow.
Councilman Snyder said the only other item I had under Solicitor.
Mr. Read Bringing back to everyone’s attention on Mr. Read who requested
Request exemption/waiver of the licensing fee due to going into bankruptcy.
And of course council acted upon that at last month’s meeting, we
said we were not going to waive the fee. He sent $50.00, only half
of it. Sandy is currently holding that check. Recommendations?
Solicitor Solymos said write him a letter and say where is the
rest of the money. The secretary said this will be the third letter
we sent out. Solicitor Solymos said first of all you don’t do
anything with bankruptcy unless you go to bankruptcy court.
The secretary said we sent him a letter instructing him that
his request was denied and that he should be sending $100.00
by the fifteenth of April. Check comes dated April 29th for
$50.00. It says $100.00 in the letter. Second letter that has gone
out to the man. Councilman Snyder said if Pete concurs with us,
for failure to pay, I think we can instruct Dana to revoke his
license and go from there. At that point for failure to pay.
Councilman Noll asked can we add late fees on it, are they such
things? Councilman Snyder said it depends if he goes to the
district court, I think at that point let him say that his license
is revoked, he has a right to appeal that. Unless he appeals.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 24
Solicitor Solymos said why don’t you send him a letter stating to him
that his license is revoked effective May 15th from the date service.
The secretary said the letter should come from Dana. It should come
from Dana, saying it is going to be revoked on such and such date.
Get with Sandy, because you never paid the full $100.00 and you
can reference these letters and go from there. Solicitor Solymos
said then when the license is revoked you can state in there then
other appropriate action will be taken because you are operating
without a license. Councilman Snyder said one thing that, we’ll
discuss it a little later tonight about codification, instead of paying
beaucoup bucks to advertise a lot of these, we need to clean up,
property rental ordinance. There’s issues in particular one, a
property is going to be deemed rental if its not owner
occupied whether or not compensation is received. The second
item is on these late payments, we have to set a date say sixty
days if payment isn’t received for the license its going to be
revoked. In conjunction, I came up with an idea, instead of
going to DJ, which costs us money, we’ll institute what’s
called a reinstatement fee of $500.00 that once you receive
notice that you’re license is revoked the only way you can
get it back is you have to pay a $500.00 reinstatement fee.
And that can be done by resolution. And then of course, is,
and this has been coming up especially in these two cases
that we had tonight. Landlord retaliating against a tenant
for filing a complaint. So, they need to be addressed when
we do that and I think. The secretary asked what would happen
if Mr. Read’s license was revoked does he have to stop
renting the property? Councilman Snyder said yes, it can’t
be occupied. But again all that stuff costs money to do that,
you send him a letter saying now your license is revoked but
you have an opportunity to reinstate it, pay a $500.00 and then
we just file with the district justice, revoke the occupancy
permit and everything else. Solicitor Solymos said it took
Solicitor’s Report(Cont.) Page 25
you this long to get $100.00, imagine how long it will take to get
five. Councilman Snyder said hey at that point we have something
to go. The secretary said right now we have 33 properties that
haven’t paid and that’s $3300.00. That’s a lot money. Its about
eight to ten people. Councilman Snyder said there was no date to
say you have to pay by a certain date. Councilman Allar said
that first point Sam, when a landlord takes the property off
the market, he’s not paying a fee. Correct? Councilman Snyder
said if its no longer being rented, its not occupied. If its being
occupied. Councilman Allar said then it comes back in, he’s
going to pay the $500.00. Councilman Snyder said he’s going
to pay for a new license. Part of that, that I thought up is that
an inspection has to be done for occupancy, to verify that
the apartment is vacant. That’s the only way you can verify
that. Okay that’s all I had under Solicitor. Jake, before he
leaves, is there anything you were going to bring up that
our solicitor needs to be here for? Mr. Romig said I don’t
Councilman Allar said Jake Romig is available now to advise us about grants and so forth
on the watershed and storm water issues. Jake’s been talking to DEP. He’s got insights on
Growing Greener, more or less. I wanted him to come in and fill us in on what he sees for
the future. Jake. Mr. Romig said this has been going on for awhile with the basin and stuff and a couple of projects that surround it. And awhile ago, came up with the idea to
try to combine multiple projects. Several reasons, one is get most out of everyone’s money to hire one contractor to do several projects. The other thought is to find one organizational group who host all these projects, if possible non profit to avoid the prevailing wage issue that surrounds the grants to the municipalities. As far as projects,
of course there’s the basin project working with Jason, I see the stuff that Yoe wants to do. York Township has a small project upstream of that on the Gichner property. They also have a project where Chestnut Hill Road gets to Camp Betty Washington Road. They want to do some restoration work in there. And then a few spots in between to
combine for a Growing Greener grant due next Friday. So to find an appropriate group
Visitor Jake Romig(cont.) Page 26
we went to the Codorus Creek Watershed Association. I met with them, presented the
project. And they have actually once they found out about my new position, being to help them write grants and stuff. They had some things they wanted to do on Mill Creek as well. So it was a natural fit. We proposed, we combine the project, we can all banned
together and they voted and approved that. The first thing you have to do when you get
ready to apply for the Growing Greener and met with a representative from DEP. That
representative is Rick Devore. Mr. Devore came down on Monday, this week to look at the project and at that meeting. Yoe Borough had applied last year for Growing Greener for Mill Creek and did not get awarded. He gave us insight at to why it may not have
been awarded and cautioned us that the priorities from DEP right now are on projects that have a TMDL, Total Maximum Daily Load, how much of a certain pollutant that, that water volume handles. Mill Creek doesn’t have a TMDL. Some water bodies in York County have a TMDL. Projects in those watersheds get priority. The second consideration is whether or not your project is one, compared water body identified by EPA on the 303D list of impaired water. Mill Creek is impaired on 303 D list, approximately is on the breech, 90 % of the stream life is on the list. That helps. He did caution us though that, one of their issues on anything on Mill Creek is land use and storm water management issues, surroundings. York Township, Red Lion Borough,
Dallastown Borough and Yoe Borough. Its not that he’s trying to poke fingers on. If they’re going to make an investment from the Commonwealth,they don’t want to see that investment, no pun attended, washed away. Storm water. Now there are few municipalities that are proposing to do innovative storm water management projects, infiltration basins, course paving on some public parking lots, that kind of thing. Projects in conjunction with stream work. That’s kind of a synopsis of what he feels. I did indicate to Rick that although we’re not implementing, as we, I mean the surrounding municipalites, the stakeholders, we’re all on the same page, that there’s a storm water issue. York Township is looking at their ordinances. They have a environmental council that I’m vice chair of, to look at storm water issues throughout the township and advise the commissioners on what to do about those issues. So, I educated him on what is going on in that respect. And of course Tom is well aware of the issues of water coming to Yoe Borough from the developer, development in the township. We’re all quite aware of that even though we might no be implementing directions of the project at this point. But its going to be hot ticket item, storm water replicating, not just on new development but everywhere. Councilman Snyder said the fact that we passed a storm water ordinance within the last two years, that accounts for nothing. Mr. Romig said not necessarily, it depends on what’s in that and Jason can probably educate me better, on the type of
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 27
best management practices that may be there. Councilman Snyder said that doesn’t even show that, I would think that would go to show that we’re trying to be proactive. Mr. Romig said it would. Third thing, we need to educate Rick when we submit an application. So that’s kind of what took place on Monday. Today I got an email from notice, Jason saw that. I only saw the email up to three o’clock . So Jason you might want know some. I saw your response back to Gary, and that was it. Mr. Romig said essentially Gary Peacock, he is a member of CCWAY. Based on the conversation, he was there on Monday . His recollection was that Rick was saying focus is on TMDL streams. Last week , they said they would like to extend the project that they’ve been working on, up close to Hanover. And Gary said, his recommendation was to focus on that and not Mill Creek this year and that was leaving all stakeholders, have all those projects under them. If not enough time, we really give enough notice to allow another host other than CCWAY to host the project. They put it out to vote for their organization, I have not heard and apparently Jason hasn’t heard. I don’t know what’s going to happen. My recommendation is I work with Jason on the stream work for the borough, I know what you want to do. I think the basins are probably funded. I’m not saying that we go combine the projects when they’re funded but just round the Growing Greener the borough might want to apply on their own, I can help Jason put something together, particularly for the restoration work downstream that you have in mind. That’s my recommendation to York Township as well. They go back and resubmit what they have applied for before and with official knowledge that we have now, what Rick’s saying, promote what we are doing. He understands that we are doing this restoration work but
you also want to preserve that investment in the future. Councilman Snyder said when you’re talking about York Township going on their end, you’re not talking about the upstream work around Gichners. Mr. Romig said they supposedly have funding for that. Councilman Snyder said okay. Councilman Allar said that’s going to be combined. Mr. Romig said I think we need to combine that because I think one of the thoughts. Councilman Snyder said okay, I just wanted to make sure when you are talking about our downstream project, and then followed that up with that York Township had some work that they want to do. I wanted to make sure you weren’t talking about the upstream project that we were hoping to wrap in with our gabion work. Councilman Allar said the gabions, Sam, which we’re planning on working with the parking lot, it has to be creatively worded because gabions by themselves is not something that he likes to see. Our design plans are similar to what we did upstream with the V’s and natural rock and stuff like that is more conducive to what CDG is looking for. So when we go forward
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 28
with Growing Greener, that’s the kind of wording. Mr. Romig said right, we’ve got to find something else because that did say, he actually saw the gabions yesterday. And you know, that won’t happen, we can’t fund that with Growing Greener. They won’t put that forward. Councilman Allar said but they will fund it, if its. Mr. Romig said if it’s a restoration project and we focus on that aspect of it. Also DEP, even if it’s a Growing Greener project, including a permit to do the work, DEP permit. They don’t permit gabions like that anymore. Councilman Allar said so we can still do the gabions, its just how we word it and how we’re going to design it. Like I said, some what in the line of it being upstream, they are looking for a natural type fix maybe along the basin. Not to say we have to pull out the gabions and go in a different direction. Its combination of things.
Councilman Snyder said that’s we’re paying them for to tell us what they recommend. Councilman Allar said well, yeah, I think with our discussions with Jake. That’ the key, what are they going to approve. Councilman Snyder said what are they going to approve and what’s going to work. Councilman Allar said right, and if I understand it, you mentioned that in theory, three on three,you also mentioned that other. So the reason we didn’t get the Growing Greener for the basin is because we didn’t have his listing. Mr. Romig said we didn’t have a TMDL. Councilman Allar said so. Mr. Romig said that wasn’t the only reason, they have a point system. And so each category gives points to, so if you are in a TMDL, they might assign 30 points to that category. If you are in a TMDL, you get all 30 points. If you aren’t in a TMDL, you don’t get any. Councilman Manns asked what if you an impairment, chemical? Mr. Romig said it depends on what the impairment is, if you look at the list, its going to tell you where the impairment is. Sometimes it not as far as water height of course Kreutz Creek is on the list, but only a short section. Its going to tell you where that is and then what the source of impairment is. Whether sediment, nitrates, phosphorus, nutrients. It depends. And then it might break it down further to where they think its coming from, asphalt, forest ,whatever. Councilman Snyder said we have tar oil down here. Councilman Allar said so we didn’t have a TMDL so we were sort of behind the eight ball to begin with. Mr. Romig said well, its not only that, but they’re aware of the issues on Mill Creek but I think they’re concern was that the municipalities in the watershed, the whole watershed not as far as
Red Lion, township line, its Spring Garden Township, its York City, its everyone. They’re not doing enough to maintain those management practices, you know, from their mind. They’re not absolutely educated on what is going on. We need to do that. We probably didn’t do that enough in the first grant application. We saw the generics in the project itself, how many houses are about to fall into the creek, should be a pretty good indication on I guess it wasn’t, you know. Councilman Allar said but there is a house
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 29
about ready to fall into the creek. Also I mentioned to Jake, besides the gabions, we have had bridge work that we were going to combine, going back to Jeff Shue, about an agreement with the county to do repairs on the bridge. We do this more or less at the same time and I mentioned it to Jake. And Jake said you need to pull out some of that. Mr. Reichard said we returned that money didn’t we? Councilman Snyder said we never got it, we just had to say we weren’t going to use the funds. Councilman Allar said its reactivating the agreement. Mr. Reichard said we’d have to do a new application. Councilman Allar said yes, we’ll have to do it but you know, but having a conversation ahead of time as to what we can do. Mr. Reichard said we could pull out the old application and come up with. Have you talked to anybody, Bob Miller or anybody at York Township about the status of their grant because I’ve heard so many different stories? I haven’t heard anything consistent to say whether they have the money, or are still in the running for the money? Mr. Romig, well said from my knowledge in talking to Rick, the county can earmark funds for the project. You submit an application to the county to my knowledge. They can support a project. It goes to Rick Devore then. Then he approves it and I don’t know if he has the final say or if he represents whether or not the county follows through with that. He has not seen it but he sort of indicated , so what, that doesn’t mean its not a project. I am having trouble figuring it out. Mr. Reichard said because we actually got a letter from the Board of Commissioners, ours came April 15th
and it directly states that the York County Board of Commissioners recently approved a request from Yoe Borough to designate $51,550.00 from the county’s Growing Greener II allocation to be used towards the borough project. So if it. Mr. Romig said that’s the basin. Mr. Reichard said that’s the basin so York Township should have, have the same thing. I don’t understand what, for the upper portion. Mr. Romig said they do. Councilman Allar said they do. Mr. Reichard said so they have to follow through. Councilman Allar said we had, yours in, the county isn’t going to set anything forward until they knew that the original one was declined. The township did not have that, the township sent one directly one to the county for their share. So that has gone up from the county, months and months ago. Mr. Reichard said so they already have the letter guaranteeing, that will push it. Councilman Allar said and when I talked to. Mr. Romig, said excuse me Tom, they needed to a do a grant application. Mr. Reichard said they needed to do a grant application, and I don’t think they have. Mr. Romig said after the fact, they had it put together, except for that last step. I talked to Bob Miller and he said well, I don’t know if we want to go through with this because Gichner has some kind of super funding, whatever else. I said I don’t know, I said that’s not true and I told them that. And I said would you be willing to tack this on to somebody else’s project. He said
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 30
absolutely. I talked to one of the commissioners and they said yeah we’re supporting that. Councilman Allar said I talked to Miller too, the commissioners say that because they don’t have to do any work, the staff does the work. As far as Miller is concerned, he is so happy that Jake has come along. As far as he is concerned, yeah let’s have it done but I’m not going to do anything with it. Jake you coordinate it all, you do all of the work. I’m out of it. Mr. Romig said how I left it with Bob is, give me everything you have, if need I’ll finalize it, I’ll get it submitted. I’ll still submit on behalf of the township, cause they got the letter. I don’t want to muddy the waters. But we submit it like that. And I know the commissioners will support it. Councilman Allar said one less job for him. Councilman Snyder asked so you know what you need to do for ours then? There’s some, there’s a lot of question here. Mr. Romig said we can look at some of this stuff. Councilman Allar said there’s a repackaging of what Jason has already done, still has to be submitted the application to go along with this letter that the county sent it. Its not a total re do, format of the application. Councilman Snyder asked is that how you look at it Jason? Mr. Reichard said pretty much, I just was trying to think if we should try to combine those two. I don’t know if there. Mr. Romig asked which two? Mr. Reichard said submit two applications, one for the basin and one for the stream restoration work. I think we can fill in the two. Mr. Romig said you’re going to submit? Mr. Reichard said we have to call up with our application for the basins. Mr. Romig said with the York County Environmental Resource. Mr. Reichard said so is York Township’s. I was wondering if it would make sense to apply, since there so close to make that one project. That comes back to the issue whose the overall sponsor for the overall job. Cause when we were talking. Mr. Romig asked do you guys want to do that? Councilman Allar said I think its good idea for a couple of reasons. I think it increases the chance that they’re going to approve ours. One of them that’s going to be questioned, its going to be ours.
And along side the township, it looks like a package, more likely get approval. The second reason is timeline, we don’t one being approved, and then another one being approved months later. We don’t want the township to get ahead of is the next thing you know, some commissioner is taking a vote, and they have a contract on the creek. Councilman Snyder said the other thing about it, I thought about trying to combine those two, which I thought we still were. Is the bidding aspect, plus the permitting aspect. I mean if we can get it all under one. Mr. Romig said I think you’re on the same page even if the township has the restoration part upstream and you guys do the basin. That when the time came, you would combine it somehow. We’d figure out how to do that. I think what Jason is saying,combine it in the application phase. And you guys, reference it from
Visitor- Jake Romig Page 31
start, which is probably a good idea. I think the township wouldn’t have a problem with that. Mr. Reichard said we just have to go through the county and get their blessing on it. Councilman Snyder said and in doing that, before it this becomes an issue with anybody, if we’re managing both projects, how does that affect the engineering costs on our bid proposal that we said, we’re only going for $121,000.00 for our project. Mr. Reichard said we have engineering built into our application, I have no idea what was set up for York Township. I think, they might have combined costs in there. There’s going to be money in there regardless, that is what we’ll end with, we’ll work out the details on how we want to go about. Councilman Snyder said I think then council, is there a consensus of council then to try to coordinate and combine these two applications. Let the record reflect there is a consensus of council to do that. Jason can work with Jake to figure out exactly the best approach in doing this and just go from there. At this point, its in your guys hands as far the technical aspect and trying to meet whatever deadlines. We all have an understanding on what we’d like to see happen. The best way to do it. Mr. Romig asked Jason, do you know is there a deadline for county initiative? Mr. Reichard said I’m not aware of anything. Mr. Romig said I think the deadline is next Friday for Growing Greener II. That is separate from what we’re talking about. Councilman Snyder said there was some question on that because we got email from the county that said we had that May 16th deadline. Mr. Reichard said they’re looking at their new round of Growing Greener, we’re still working in 2007. Mr. Romig said the County Environmental Initiative is a Growing Greener allocation to the county, a one time deal. It doesn’t happen every year. It’s a separate Growing Greener application, that comes around every year. I think if you want to do additional work outside these two projects, that you get with Growing Greener II. Mr. Reichard said its basically stand by itself, the application. Mr. Romig said I was going to ask, do you guys have any property owned by the borough, that’s right along the stream, where we could tie the restoration work in with a pilot project of doing something innovative with storm water management on a small scale, whatever it is. Is there any opportunity that exists? Is there a municipal parking lot that needs repaved? Councilman Snyder said the closest thing we have is that land that we were going to quick claim, you know the railroad property, Rail Trail thing. Councilman Allar asked what about non profit? Councilman Snyder said you’re looking at doing something to do the land or improving? When you start looking at the fire company or the church parking lot. Mayor Sanford asked Barry, is there any easements around the bridge, you were talking about the boundary around the bridge? Councilman Myers said about fifty feet if that. Mr. Romig said I’m looking at more irrigated storm water management, it has to be storm water. Councilman Allar said there is parking lot
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 32
and Main Street that gets flooded. It’s a state road. Councilman Snyder asked would you be putting in a grant to do this storm water management thing? Mr. Romig said I want to tie that to. Councilman Snyder said what if, here’s a thought, what of the issues that Jason is going to bring up under Engineer’s Report, is flooding issues that we have up at the park. One of issues that we have slated for the park project, is storm water management. Could we tie storm water control up there, we have the documentation to show, that its going right into Mill Creek, it’s a direct shot coming right down the hill? Can we tie that in somehow? And do something up there. Mr. Reichard said basically we’re looking at a collection system, to hold water in. Councilman Snyder said but he may have something. Mr. Romig asked do you have a collection system there now? Mr. Reichard said no. We have points in the borough where it drains to Mill Creek. The only thing I can think of that would be easy access to install some sort of water quality manhole system, something prior to everything that goes into Mill Creek. We have a map that shows everyone of our connections. Councilman Snyder said so he’s not talking about putting in something? Mr. Reichard said he’s talking about water quality in regards to land use. Water quality, separating sediment from the water that comes into Mill Creek, what comes into the creeks. Its more of an environmental impact issue. So. We already kind of went through the basin deal, the environmental impact of a forebay. Two discussions continued during this time. Mr. Reichard said we’ll get together and talk about it. Councilman Allar said make a note, that when you send that up to DEP. The county letter already went signed by Chuck Noll to the governor’s policy office not to DEP. I don’t know that is going to matter. Councilman Snyder said okay so any further action from council needed? You’ll follow up with him on Monday. Mr. Romig said this is your last opportunity to vote on submitting a grant application for Growing Greener II. The deadline is next Friday so we pretty much. Someone will need to sign the application and I apologize, they announced the grants on March 16 that basically no in our county got anything. That just gave us two months to turn around and figure out what we’re doing. So if there is going to be a Growing Greener application to be signed, I prefer to have it here tonight. We’re running out of time. And then we need a landowner commitment letter, such as to sign something within the borough, revised manholes, or something like that, we can find something that maybe we do something with storm water. Councilman Snyder said yeah, check it out. I mean the motion is already on the books , if there is something out there that is appropriate go for it. I don’t know if there is especially with the way things are working out. I don’t know. You know better than us, Jason knows, to tie in. Mr. Romig said its not finding things that fit into a project, its finding the opportunity, where’s the opportunity for the borough. We’ll find the technique that
Visitor-Jake Romig Page 33
works. Its where the opportunity is. Councilman Allar said you may want to look downstream at the gabions to the borough boundary, there might be some things natural to keep in mind. Two discussions were at this time. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to apply for the Growing Greener II if one is deemed appropriate from the outcome of the meeting between Jake and Jason. Councilman Snyder said I mean you know better than us what you can tie. Jason has a good idea what our needs are. You know what are needs are, we’ve been talking about them. It’s a matter of what you feel fit. Mr. Romig said we need to tie into something with storm water. That’s going to be a help. Before I talk to Rick, what our chances are. Councilman Snyder said between our two bridges
actually, Church Street and the Mason Alley Bridge, the downstream gabions and the area below the bridge where there are no gabions that’s eroding away. All that kind of stuff. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Let’s see what we can do.
Copies of Heather Glen Mr. Reichard said right here are copies of the Heather Glen
and Harvest View and Harvest View LD plans for just the overall layout
Layout Sheets sheets. I didn’t copy full sets in terms of profiles, creating
all that business but they’re here put it in your files
for reference. Councilman Allar asked did we have to
pay for it. Mr. Reichard said no. Courtesy of C. S.
John Adams Mr. Reichard said the John Adams deal we talked about
already so I’ll check that off.
Yoe Borough Mr. Reichard said Yoe Borough Dam Dredging Project
Dam Dredging we talked about that already so I’ll check that off. The
Project secretary asked what the time line is on this? Mr. Reichard
said that’s to be determined. The secretary said as when,
this year? Mr. Reichard said yeah, its part of the initiative
between Jake and I, trying to bring closure to this whole
process and where we’re going from this point forward.
The secretary asked so it will be in 2008? Mr. Reichard
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34
said we just got the letter April 15, 2008 confirming basically
we’ve got the county’s backing. The secretary said I just want
to get to know, if the borough is responsible, where its heading
with the money. Mr. Reichard said that’s the next thing that’s
going to be coming out of this, we’re going to be looking for
the money from the neighboring municipalities. So. I want
to try to get the county to get involved because they helped
head up the project. The secretary said so they are going to
initiate a letter or request whatever? Councilman Allar said
they don’t know, that’s what I was going to do, go back to the
county, Felicia Dell. I will be meeting with them.
CDBG Application Mr. Reichard said I am going to ask for motions and then have
Sam this stuff when it comes back in. We are filling out the
CDBG application per your authorization last month. I don’t
have the full application because we’re still working on some
numbers. I do have is the resolution that needs to be approved.
The resolution basically is certifying that the borough, yes,
intends to move forward with the project with the description of
the work that we’ve already discussed and also authorizes the
signature by the Council President and the Council Secretary.
Resolution 2008-03 That needs to be approved by motion. A motion was made by
to resolve the resolution that Jason described by Councilman
Allar. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All
in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.
Borough Boundary Mr. Reichard said we talked about the borough boundary
Survey surveys. We can get that one off the list.
Broad Street Traffic Mr. Reichard said Broad Street Traffic and Engineering Study.
and Engineering We sent the letter in, as you recall we were trying to trick them.
Study Letter In terms of making a recommendation for speed control, and
they didn’t bite on it. Long and short of it, they do not have
a recommendation for speed control other than law
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
enforcement. And were more than willing to look at no parking
restrictions due to sight distances in exchange so. Councilman
Myers said up there, we don’t want that. Mr. Reichard said so
we tried. Councilman Allar said so their denial is not based
on a traffic study. Mr. Reichard said they came out and made
a recommendation to solve the problem. The letter was from
Memorandum of Mr. Reichard said memorandum of understanding with the
Understanding Watershed Alliance of York, Inc. We are half completed and
ready to submit the MS-4 Annual Report for Storm water
Discharges from Small Municipal Separate Storm Sewer
Systems. This is the last year of reporting until they renew
again for another five years. We don’t know what the
requirements are but education is going to continue to
be one of them. So this evening, one of requirements would
be to, enter into or re enter or renew the memorandum
of understanding with the Watershed Alliance of York, who
in the past have always supplied our additional requirements.
The difference in this one, is normally we would do a
resolution every year to cover our grounds. They’ve changed
the language in it and it’s a perpetual agreement until
either party is to terminate. So from now we will not have
to worry about passing a resolution each year. I have that
here, I have another resolution that I will need approved,
Resolution 2008-04 for signature by the Council President and signature to
renew the agreement with the Watershed Alliance of York.
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to resolve the
resolution to renew the agreement with the Watershed
Alliance of York. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
Application Mr. Reichard said we do have the application itself that we do
need to be signed for submission to DEP. A motion was made
by Councilman Manns to sign the agreement application. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Mr. Reichard said
I will get it notarized, we may need at least call in. I’ll work
FYI Mr. Reichard said this next item is more of an FYI, one of the
recent storms we had. I guess, Sam, you were out and witness
a lot of sediment laden runoff coming from Orchard Hills
property. He sent me some photos. I forwarded them unto
the Conservation District. They were out promptly and did
an inspection. They gave him a deadline of 5/8/08, which
is somewhat unusual to have that applied so soon. At which
time if they did not come into compliance, they are going
to send this to DEP for enforcement, usually it takes numerous
violations before they’ll eventually forwarded it on. So.
Councilman Snyder said wait to you hear what it did to our
roads. Mr. Reichard said if you want to talk about that, I
haven’t been out. Councilman Snyder said basically water
came right off the hill, right across, down behind the
tennis courts, across the basketball courts, came right
down the hill, flooded out Restuccia’s property. It also
flooded out the south side of Pennsylvania Avenue. There is
an eight inch gully undermining Philadelphia Street, it was
just going everywhere. And now we have a problem of
undermining Philadelphia Street. Continue to flow across
Restuccia’s property came down and just ripped Park Alley.
We have now have hunks of macadam out of Park Alley.
Councilman Myers asked what changed, what changed
up there to do that? Mr. Reichard said he’s kicking more
of water off there. Councilman Snyder said he’s putting
impervious surface in, which I don’t think he’s suppose to.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37
That’s still going under a permit for that Orchard Hills Vista,
which was denied. And now he’s enlarging his business based
off of that permit. Councilman Allar said there’s no permit for
him to be able to do that stuff. Councilman Snyder said he’s
been enlarging his business under that permit. Councilman
Allar said that’s not for that. Councilman Snyder said, no
that’s not for that, that’s what I told Jason, he’s working outside
of the scope of that. Councilman Allar said in fact I was going
to ask Jason, is permitting going to be a requirement for the
second phase. Is written erosion and sediment control plan
required? Yes. But it hasn’t been submitted. And erosion
and sediment control? No. I mean they moved a lot of
dirt up there. It seems that they would require. They made
it level. It seems like they should have an E & S plan. And
also. Mr. Reichard said they have a plan, they have NPDES
permit and have erosion control plan approval. He’s saying is
one being requested,no.That’s in place. Councilman Allar said its not clear. Mr. Reichard said how this is set is, a lot of times,
I’ll get calls, let’s say you decided you wanted to do some
drain out in your back yard, a couple months later we’ll
come out there, its under 5,000 square feet. This is violation
its recorded based on their observance. Councilman
Snyder said I’m sure the plan they originally put in, did
not cover the work they’re doing now. Mr. Reichard said
I made that comment so. Councilman Allar said that’s my
point. I remember on different issue, not Park Alley. Pete said
once these things happen, one, you’re not aware of changes.
Unless the volume changes or in some way the direction of
it changes by the upstream landowner. In that case, the
downstream landholder, can probably go in for legal remedies.
Now we’re talking about damages, that we have to spend
money to repair. And sounds like that, that one of those, if
not both of those things have occurred. Councilman Snyder
said we have damage to the road, there’s no doubt about that.
Councilman Allar said the volume is up because of his.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 38
Councilman Snyder said yes, because the volume isn’t
even staying on the road. Councilman Allar said he has
recontoured that property and increased the volume. Mr.
Reichard said the problem is they’re releasing a
certain amount of water, uncontrolled. That’s what
they’re in violation of. Councilman Allar said he’s
probably just laughing his head because of what we do.
However he may not laugh if he gets legal fees. Its
something we’re going to have to talk to Pete about.
I think we’re going to have some great support from
Conservation District. Councilman Snyder said I don’t see how they’re letting him get away with the work
he’s doing under that original permit. That original
permit was for a condominium association and
for the five acres that he was maintaining in his
industrial sight that was suppose to be staged stone.
Which was suppose to be before the condominium
building. That fell through, now what he’s is doing
is taking that five acre parcel that’s suppose to be
the buffer on Orchard Hills and he is enlarging the
business. Councilman Allar said but again, who are
you talking to replace the Conservation District, you’re
getting all these things in here. Remember how, at
the hearing how confusing it was with the different
parcels. I bet they don’t even know, they haven’t
gone through the steps to see which parcel is what, what
is under the permit, what’s not under the permit. They
probably don’t know. Councilman Noll said unless
York Township is looking the other way, I think you
can file a permit with the township. Councilman
Snyder said according to Joe Strobeck, he called me
up two days after I already contacted Jason. He
contacted York Township and they know nothing
going on up there. Councilman Allar said there’s
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 39
nothing been filed. Councilman Snyder said he’s
suppose to be doing nothing. Councilman Allar said
so he’s violated before. Councilman Snyder said
it doesn’t surprise me that he’s doing it without
York Township’s knowledge. The point is how
do we gig him on it. I mean York Township has
this. Mr. Reichard said you just inform the zoning
officer of it, that’s his responsibility to go out
and look at it. He’s aware of a potential non
compliance of the zoning ordinance. He should
at least do a site inspection. Councilman Allar said
but I don’t think these non compliance issues are
open,if we were going into that end of it. Councilman
Manns said if the sediment controls had been in place
none of this would have happened. Mr. Reichard said
we have our interpretation of any kind of road
condition of the road, prior to development. Councilman
Snyder said this was just repaved with agility money with
Penn Dot last year. He could testify to what the condition
of the road was. I could testify what the road was. The
secretary said we have documentation that the road was
fixed because we paid it with the agility money. Councilman
Manns said we have the fact what the condition of the road
was in. Councilman Snyder said when you’re talking a drop
like that on the side, the next couple rains we get, its just
going to continue to undermine and undermine. Mr. Shearer
said this actually the second complaint that we called on.
First complaint was back when. Councilman Snyder said
something changed. Councilman Allar said we did a fix
a number of years ago, effected by. Councilman Snyder said
somebody did a little swale in there. Councilman Allar said
a swale and there might have been some asphalt laid down.
Councilman Snyder said now instead of going, last couple
times it would, if you’re looking at the tennis courts towards
the south, it would go on the right side between the tennis
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 40
courts and the apartment building and flow down the hill. This
time it actually came out the other side. Councilman Allar said
but the key here is, is the time of his re-contouring and moving in X number of tons of dirt, we have a before and after
situation. We’ve got a before situation, we had these
rainstorms, no damage, a little bit of flooding. Then we have
an after situation, where it’s a cause and affect based on what
he did and we also have it documented that he was going to
file that right paperwork, and he filed, perhaps without the
damage. So. Councilman Manns said we may need some
advice from Pete on that. Somebody has to find out what
he has done with York Township based on what he is
permitted to do. Maybe he isn’t even permitted to do it.
Councilman Snyder said I never understood how he was
able to use that land for Orchard Hills Vista, to enlarge
Tri Boro. Because they’re two separate owners. Its
common ownership, but its in to separate names. Mr.
Reichard said I know what he’s using it for, its an
expansion. Councilman Snyder said its an expansion
of Tri Boro. Councilman Allar said they approved one,
he cited it, he referenced it. Councilman Snyder said
its all owned by Rexroth, that’s all they know. Mr.
Reichard said as long as the limits that they applied
for. Councilman Snyder said the limits for their
disturbance was for that whole 27 acres for Orchard
Hills Vista. Councilman Allar said that’s right. They
approved for a certain purpose which is not the purpose
that they’re using it for now. Mr. Reichard said we’re
going to find out from the Conservation District and
look at the plan and see what that is up there. A
discussion by council to have Jason follow up
on that, check to see what that permit actually is and if
needed go out on site, if allowed, contact York Township
Zoning Officer and say I want to come out with you, and
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 41
what can be done here. Keep following up on this. Now
we are to the point, that we’re damaging our roads.
Don’t know what can be done at Park Alley cause we
actually lost humps of macadam out of that. We’re going
to lose Philadelphia. That the inspection be, a statement
of legal remedies based on the observation of the engineer.
Have Jason come back and report to council and check with
the solicitor. Councilman Allar said sicking the authorities
on them, all that is going to do is going to increase paperwork.
That isn’t going to pay us for the street. We’re going to
have to go after him. It would help maintain the lawsuit.
Councilman Snyder said York Township alone, has
supposedly one of the most stringent storm water
ordinances around that you’re suppose to contain this
stuff on sight. And its like why are we getting flooded
out like this. Councilman Allar said all its going. Councilman
Snyder said and who do we go to, other than York Township
to enforce their ordinance. Councilman Allar said all we
have to do is contact them and say fill out and submit that.
Councilman Snyder said s you know what you’re looking for
and you know what direction to take. A motion was made
by Councilman Allar to have Jason go in and take a look at
the permit to see exactly what was filed, and if needed for
him to go out on site, if needed with York Township Zoning
Officer to go out on site and verify what actually is taking
place. And then to report to council and well as the solicitor
to see if any legal remedies can be taking place. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried. Councilman Snyder said
evidently we got some good response from County
Conservation that they’re going to send this right up to DEP.
But again that’s not stopping the problem. And we all know
he is working outside the scope that he intended to do. The
problem is when he put that entire 27 acres into the project.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 42
Now he is using that seven acres, ten acres to enlarge the
business. No one’s, he’s skirting around.
DCNR Grant Mr. Reichard said one last item, its not on my report, it
was in my head, but I didn’t write anything down. Seth ,
Tom and I got together to talk about the DCNR grant.
You recall last meeting, the council made a motion to
kind of move forward with that and for us to sit down
and start to put a plan together. When we were doing that,
we kind of got a better understanding of where everything
was to be. Kind of the feeling, maybe the entire council
wasn’t under the same understanding that the work,
feed back was needed at that point at a council meeting.
Just to go over it, in a little bit more detail to make sure
everyone understood our position before we go forward.
DCNR grant, we currently have in place. $75,000 has
been approved. That requires matching funds. Basically
we have verbal approval from DCNR, that completely
understand that we’re not in the position that we have
the matching $75,000 and that we’re trying to get
a CDBG grant with the county to fill in that void. And
they’re saying short of that, submit the application, if
that does not come in, we understand that the money is
then withdrawn. Concern was though, what do we do
on the design side of it. We have plans, we have a survey,
we have contract specs that need to completed, to keep
the process moving through DCNR. Obviously that
requires some expenditure of funds by the borough.
We weren’t sure if everyone realized that or not. The
point is we put together a $150,000.00 project and CDBG
may not be there for and our plans have to be condensed.
Is everybody satisfied on how we got that? Councilman
Allar said this is similar to the basin. Jason has incurred
certain design expenses for grants, for bids, and so
forth and we still don’t know if that money is going to
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 43
come in. If it comes in of course, we have already spent half
of his engineering. Last month we talked about sending out
a massive bill to the other municipalities. We kind of spent
on the basin while waiting for the Growing Greener. So this
is that much dissimilar. Assuming we get the grant. Plan B,
we’ve already incurred expense through Kinsley. In theory,
if we zero out on everything else we got going. We can
probably get DCNR approval on the work that Kinsley.
At least of what C. S. Davidson’s fees are going to be.
There is going to be work done in the fall. We can
always argue, we have a match, the engineer. We can probably
still use some of the DCNR money. Councilman Snyder said
that would offset the engineering. Councilman Allar said
I think our risk is minimal. Councilman Noll said we would
look into 2 to 3 thousand dollars as we were talking to get
this application together. Mr. Reichard said right now this
hard for me to completely define, what outside sources are
going to offer us and what they’re not. Its kind of up in the
air but rule of thumb for us is, for municipal project is
10% of the bidding base. That’s a $150,000.00 project there.
So that adds up pretty quick. I haven’t been able to sit down
and actually justify that much money. I went back over, I was
able to shave three grand off of it on my side. Councilman
Allar said DCNR has a limit of 15%. Mr. Reichard said
you will get reimbursed for that. Councilman Allar said
after the 15% then we have to pay for it. Mr. Reichard said
right now the leading factor, 15% will take us into inspection,
contact all the names. Initially, we were saying 10, I feel
we can get down to $11,600 on this, it could be less. Up until
we actually figure out what we’re doing. Councilman Snyder
said I was going to say, you can actually go through this
without council actually saying what we actually want to
do up there. Mr. Reichard said we’ve said that, we’ve agreed
that this the grant scope, we’re going to move forward with it.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 44
Try to get the grants. Work up details to see where we stand
financially on it. Councilman Noll said I guess my major
concern after talking about what the financial commitment was
is that everybody here knows there is potential that we put
this grant together and have it fall through and we would be
in the possible $12,000 range that the borough is out.
Councilman Allar said we get the authority of seven, we have
to submit something. Of course we have to submit to CDBG.
Councilman Noll said how much risk do you have, that’s
what it comes down to. Councilman Myers said so you’re
saying we have to do all the work to apply for the grant before
we apply for the grant. Mr. Reichard said we’ve already
applied for the grant, now we’re on the side of, they want to
approve the project. They want to see that we have the
specifications, they want to see the design, they want
to understand where walking trails are. Councilman Allar
said one of the main things here, in the past, when DCNR
would build something, they’d say this is what we think
we need. There wasn’t an engineering standpoint necessary.
They’re looking for a third party certification by an
engineer or consultant that these are bona fide needs,
Its just not the municipality making something up. Number
two, they’re looking for something with substance that
this phase, contracts and so on. Councilman Noll said
part of that involves things like surveying the park,
to find the total area, to find limits to work and other
things. I don’t think everyone was thinking. Councilman
Snyder asked you can’t use the surveys off the deed we
have. Mr. Reichard said all we did up there was a just
a property line deal at the corner. Mr. Reichard said
where the trees, where the buildings, where the sandboxes
are. Councilman Snyder said so worse case scenario,
we approve this to go forward with this. We would still
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 45
need to some of this anyways just to get back any monies.
Like Kinsley has already donated. We still have to do this
right? So the worse case scenario, is we get no money
for the county, we still have to do this and if nothing else,
we’re trying to get back the money that Kinsley has
already donated toward this. And Kinsley’s work will
far exceed or at least. Councilman Noll said I’d have
to check they probably put like $5,000.00 to $6,000.00.
Councilman Snyder said so at that point we’re looking
at spending $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 out of pocket to
cover your engineering fees if we don’t get the county
CDBG to go through with more of the project. Councilman
Allar said we’re hoping Kinsley is willing to come in and
do parking areas and things like that. All that needs to
be negotiated but Kinsley is being very. Councilman Snyder
said there still may be some more in kind that the worse
case scenario that we couldn’t follow through with the
entire project and all we’re trying to do is to keep enough
money to cover engineering. Mr. Reichard said that’s
saying, you have everything in place. Councilman
Snyder said the CDBG comes in. Mr. Reichard said
they come in or whatever else you can come across.
Its not a total loss. Councilman Allar said it’s the
same as the basin but we didn’t talk about it up front,
we just ended up getting into it, and incurring expenses
before we got the money reimbursed for. Councilman
Snyder said what if, say there are in kind contributions
amount, I want to use easy figures here because its
getting late. Say $5000.00 of in kind contributions
you’re engineering is $10,000.00. We’ve already paid
the ten thousand if we already have the grant, so DCNR
would reimburse. Is $5000.00 for in the kind contribution,
would they also not being reimbursing the borough for
the $5000.00 we paid for the engineering because isn’t
that our portion of the $ 70,000.00. I’m asking if he
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 46
already did in kind contributions, and we’re paying
$5000.00. Councilman Allar said it would be $2500.00,
it’s a $5000.00 shortfall. We’ll put up $2500.00 and
they’ll put up $2500.00 from DCNR. Councilman
Noll said from my understanding you get one shot
at it, so you put up whatever money you have, a
$2500.00. Councilman Snyder said at that point his
engineering is done. If we don’t get the CDBG money,
we’re pretty much done with this project then. Whatever
Kinsley has done, we may want to go out and see if
we want to buy some park equipment and see what
else we can do. But for the most part, we’re going to
be done with this project. Councilman Noll said before
you take a total expenditure of what his cost are, you might
be able to take that $10,000.00 of the in kind to get half
of that back to $7500.00 to pay off that off. Councilman
Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, what we pay towards
the engineering can go along with yours and be considered
as part of our matching funds. So there forth if you gave
$5000.00 in matching in kind contributions, we pay
$10,000.00 on his fee, that’s a total of $15,000.00, so we
would get $7500.00 back from DCNR which would
all but pay for his $10,000.00. Councilman Allar said
it would be matching, so it would be $15,000.00.
Councilman Snyder said so they would give us
fifteen and then we’re not anything. Councilman Allar
said and again. Councilman Snyder said as a matter of
fact, we’re actually pretty good because of the in kind
contribution from Kinsley. The secretary said but he
was saying you only get 15% of the engineering. Councilman
Allar said 15% of the total project. The secretary said so
if its $10,000 for engineering, and $5,000 for Kinsley and
we identify the $10,000.00 for engineering, how much
would we get? Councilman Snyder said let’s wait a minute
hear, tell me where I’m thinking wrong here. If he has
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 47
$5000.00 in kind contributions here and we have to pay
you $10,000.00 to do this work. That’s $15,000.00 in
work that is done for this project. They would match
that $15,000.00. Mr. Reichard asked what are you
spending the other $15,000.00 on? If you would want.
Councilman Snyder said then we would get. Mr. Reichard
said fifteen thousand back towards something else in
the park. Councilman Snyder said but we can’t repay
ourselves. We can repay ourselves some of this money?
Councilman Allar said we paid it up front. Councilman
Snyder said and still have five thousand dollars to
pay for equipment. The secretary said he was saying
that in the DCNR, you can only use up to 15% of that
grant for engineering, of what you spend on what you are
doing for engineering of the total project? Correct?
So where are we at then? Councilman Snyder said
so they would only approve 15% of $20,000.00 project.
Councilman Noll said we would have to check into
that. Councilman Allar said also keep in mind, with
Kinsley’s matching, assume there is going to come
in lower for in kind match. Councilman Snyder said
just make council aware, that this is money that
is going to be outlaid now and we won’t be getting
it back. If we have to the funds can be taken out of
our long range. The secretary said PLGIT. Councilman
Allar said and we can have C. S. Davidson take
delayed payment, we’re only talking about the fall
probably until we know about the CDBG. That’s
that far away. So. Mr. Reichard said that’s a hot
subject with us lately, I can’t promise that. The secretary
said so the work you do for DCNR, then you are
doing it for the CDBG project, you’re going to be
using the same information for two grant applications?
Mr. Reichard said CDBG is a grant application, DCNR
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 48
is beyond that. We already the grant application. The
secretary said so we’ll be paying you for the CDBG
part of it too? Mr. Reichard said right. The secretary
said but its not going to be as intense as the DCNR.
Councilman Allar said CDBG the wording is pretty
much already done. The secretary said I just wanted
to make sure we’re not paying for two, again. Mr.
Reichard said you’re not. Councilman Snyder said
she just wanted to make sure that we’re not
paying for duplication of services. A motion
was made by Councilman Manns to have Jason
proceed with the project as outlined in the
discussion. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried. Councilman
Allar asked what’s your timeline on that
information. Mr. Reichard said we’re waiting
on you. We meet Friday and we’re hoping
on the end of the week. So the timeline on that
is get that stuff cleaned up and figure on the
stuff at the park. I’ll schedule the survey
tomorrow and we’re out there next week.
Sixty days to get it. Councilman Snyder asked
anything else for the engineer?
Letter Councilman Allar said in your packet there’s the
of Understanding letter of understanding with the MA and PA
feasibility study. And there are couple of
quick points on that. This is something we’re
going to have to vote on in time. There are
four issues here, if you haven’t read it. We’re
agreeing that the township will be the project
manager. The most significant thing there is
that they are going to be the holder of the monies
from DCNR and from the boroughs and other
townships. I don’t think we wanted that kind of
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 49
burden anyway. So we’re agreeing that they will,
execute and pay the bills and so forth. The second
point is that one here, they’re asking for a
representative for the feasibility study. I can’t
be on that, I’m on two other committees. This
calls for another representative from the municipality.
I talked to Dana about it. And Dana is willing to
participate. It calls for someone who knows the
municipality, as well as, in case of utility right
of ways come into play, things of that nature. There
are, these are the applications, we sent out bids for
six, we got four. Thursday I’m meeting with the
steering committee, we will be picking the engineering
firm and then based on that firm, the contractors
will be notified. Councilman Myers said that’s
engineering? Councilman Allar said these are
the proposals, there are four of them here. Based
on that, like I said Thursday the steering committee,
will pick an engineering firm and the feasibility
study will commence. The committee will only
exist for the length of the feasibility study then that
will be done. The third point, one of the issues of the
feasibility study will be a community focus group
in each municipality. We’re talking about some of
the property owners will be involved, community
leaders, I was thinking of inviting the Pastor from the
Church. Certainly Yoe Auto Parts, any one here at
the table can come. The study will be explained,
the whole contract will be explained. Everyone
will get a chance, property owners, talk about
liability and right of way, all that stuff. Fourth issue is
money. Again no changes here. But on this agreement
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 50
that our share is 4% which amounts to $1000.00. That has
been discussed before, we all agreed with that. So the
signing of this. Sandy, don’t send any check in yet because
I want to know if the township is going to have a separate
bank account. The secretary said yes, and I need an invoice,
please. Councilman Allar said I make a motion that we sign
this agreement along with the other six, seven municipalities
so I can go the meeting on Thursday with signatures. The
motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried. The secretary asked
for a copy with everyone’s signatures for our records please.
The secretary will put into your mail slot.
Mr. Shearer said we’ll make it quick since I didn’t have a
written report prepared.
Mowing Dam Mr. Shearer said I started mowing the dam. We do have
Red Lion’s tractor out there. We are in the process of
using their mower.
Mulch Mr. Shearer said we place mulch around the play equipment
up at the park.
Perpetual Mr. Shearer said I have made no progress on getting new
Cameras cameras. Took me a couple of weeks to get in to get the
one fixed on the back side of the building.
Police Mr. Shearer said the police are working on the damage of the
Working concrete, the poured concrete pad in front of the bathrooms.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 51
We had two episodes, two days back to back. Where they
damaged the concrete. The first day we incurred a lot of
expense, labor speaking. Because it was still a little bit
wet, later that night the same individual proceeded to
mark it up a little bit again. They did get it repaired and did
a great job. They were writing in it. They marked it up.
Sticks and drawing in it. Kinsley provided us with a cost
estimate of what it cost to fix it. The police were in with
their recording device and down load the video. They
have a pretty good idea who it is. They got a pretty
good handle on who he is. They did receive the damage
Water Heater Mr. Shearer said I did have them cut in a hole in the back
wall for the water heater vent. I would like to go ahead,
I haven’t gotten any prices yet, none available until
May 18th. I have to get things cleaned up there so Gail
can do her thing. The water heater that is there is
extremely old. I would like to look into a tank less
model to upgrade there so we’re not spending a lot
of money to heat the water. I haven’t gotten any prices.
I will try to keep it within reason. Councilman Noll
said Point Source has a model for around $400.00 with
natural gas. Councilman Snyder said there’s a consensus
of council to go ahead and get that. Mr. Shearer said
I know Ron had talked before about replacing that
last year. Councilman Snyder said just make sure you
put a note on that bill, that is matching funds for
Compliment Mr. Shearer said I would like to compliment Kinsley
Education Center for their work. They were in there,
they were professional. Did one great job, it came out
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 52
real nice. They had the back wall ripped down in no time.
Dallastown let us use their dump truck to haul off materials.
Real good job. Councilman Noll said you want to keep that
concrete, that one dumpster, pull that out for matching funds
from the credit card. Councilman Snyder said for the
record, I think they’re done with that building, are they
done what they were planning up there or are they still have
some other work that they’re going to do up there. Councilman
Noll said for this round pretty much, I am going to see in the
fall, see if I can basically cover favors for small stuff. I will
think it would be a good possibility but. Councilman Snyder
said we have been up there discussing too, they have done
a wonderful job. If anybody hasn’t had an opportunity to
go up and look at it, it’s a heck of a job. Councilman Allar
said I really think we should send them a letter. Councilman
Snyder said what we were talking about was to do it the
proper way. A resolution, and all that kind of good stuff, and
try to get a photo op with them. Mr. Shearer said I do have
pictures of them pouring concrete. Councilman Noll said
I would say if you do something now, it helps to get them back.
Councilman Snyder said we’re start working on that then,
and set something up. The mayor and I will coordinate. If
get a contact name, get some press in there. We’re probably
go on site, at their facility. Councilman Allar said I would
think it would be nice at the park. Councilman Snyder said
up at the park is nice for us but we’re recognizing them.
We go to them. At point you’re going out of your way, to
meet them. More people who had been involved behind the
scenes, that can’t get away from work. We can say hey, you
want to schedule something in there around an appropriate
time. We can say we want to have a little ceremony, fifteen
minutes or so, give a couple of remarks. We know how to
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 53
do it up right. Councilman Noll said the more you do that with
them and build a relationship, keep with that. Councilman
Snyder said there was no doubt we would do something like
that it was just a matter of timing and stuff, wanted to wait
until they were done. Councilman Noll said I think now would
be the right time. Councilman Snyder said that’s something
we’ll do on their time frame, set it up. If it can’t be for
month then so be it.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for maintenance?
Maintenance Councilman Allar said Dana and I met with Stew from Red
Grants Lion, Brett and Mayor Bob at their request. They wanted to
involve us with maintenance grants, they are working with
several other municipalities and they wanted to try to
include us. We would increase their change in maybe getting
some grants. The first thing they would be submitting would
be for a new crack sealer. The program where we already have
a deal done with Dallastown. Its not that we don’t agree with
the concept but we wouldn’t be putting into the first one.
And then Stew wanted to know if there is a chance for the
future, are we willing to sign in at least principal, we weren’t
apply for money but we would put our name on the dotted
line. Are we going to do that? I said if it was just for
cooperation we would do that. As to do matching, it
would be case to case.
Agreement Councilman Snyder said just for the record the agreement
was signed with Ambulance Club and it was effective
May 5th for Dana Shearer to be the full time employee of
the ambulance club. And we accepted his resignation,
from borough council and that became effective as of
Monday the fifth. So for the record, so there is no
need for any further clarification, I want to make sure
that council is aware and for the record that Dana
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 54
Shearer, an employee of the ambulance club is appointed
as the maintenance man for Yoe Borough as well as
Code Official for Property Maintenance Inspections and
Enforcement. While the employment has changed, the
person hasn’t. There was a little misnomer here if we
had to appoint him to these positions, so for the record,
we make that statement.
Zoning Officer’s Report
307 S.Main Street Councilman Snyder said just two things on here, 307 S.
Main Street, variance request to operate a motorcycle
repair shop was denied by the zoning hearing board.
Sent a notice, 45 days to cease operations. I guess that’s
after his appeal right.
191 S. Elm St. Councilman Snyder said 191 S. Elm Street, a multi-
family conversion by special exception. Was a three
unit several years ago, meter was pulled. That was
Sheffer’s old property. Now the two unit would
like to return to a three unit. That was approved
by the zoning hearing board. No certificate of
occupancy from Code Administrators was
May 22, 2008 Councilman Snyder said zoning hearing is scheduled
for May 22 which was already testified to. What
he is requesting variances for is listed underneath.
Behind 66 W. Councilman Snyder said plans for a house to be
Walnut St. built behind 66 W. Walnut Street in the rear.
Spoke to the builder about a need for seepage
pits for downspouts. Also spoke with Jason
of C. S. Davidson about the requirements and
plans and seepage pits. And dropped off for
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 55
Issued Councilman Snyder said four zoning permits were issued.
Councilman Snyder asked any issues or questions to pass
on to the zoning officer?
Contact Councilman Myers said I think I’m going to contact him
because when Seth and I went around, pointed out
some places. I don’t recall seeing he went around
to do anything about that. Councilman Snyder said
this was, I don’t know where he’s normal paper was.
Itemized one. The secretary said its in the zoning
officer’s report folder, for his work. Councilman
Allar said just call him. The secretary said right
here is the breakdown, if you don’t see it, call
him. Councilman Myers said I haven’t seen
it since we’ve been out. Councilman Snyder said
I only had two things. We really need to have him
look at that house, I don’t know the address, about
a block up. Councilman Myers said see, that’s one
of them. Councilman Noll said where they cut
the tree. Councilman Myers said that’s one of them.
We pointed it out to him, we told him to do
something about it. The secretary asked the
Richardson property? Mayor Sanford said its
on my side. Mr. Shearer said in a matter of fact,
he told me today, he just sent them a letter for
weeds and so forth. Councilman Myers said yeah,
but not the structure. Mayor Sanford said porches.
Councilman Myers said it was that one, there was one
on W. Broad Street, that we pointed out to him.
Councilman Snyder asked you said he just sent
that out today? Mr. Shearer said yeah. Councilman
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 56
Myers said it was what’s his name that is getting
sheriffed now, he used to be on council. He didn’t
do nothing with him. Councilman Noll asked is
that the one that is missing the windows in the
back? Councilman Myers said yeah. Councilman
Myers said up there at Mason and Broad. I think
I’m just going to go around and do the addresses
again. Councilman Snyder said and send him an
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Mayor Sanford said there was no report.
Mayor and Police Report
Mayor Sanford said the York Area Regional Police reported the following for March 2008. We had a detail in town, there were 86 traffic citation, that was in conjunction with
the state program that they’re running, that is funded by the state. Councilman Noll
asked does Yoe receive any of that fine money? Mayor Sanford said yes, but I don’t
know what the breakdown is. Councilman Snyder said we get one quarter, the county gets a quarter, we get a quarter, the other fifty goes to the state. Mayor Sanford said
traffic, parking, any traffic related. There was 18 calls, summary citation 1, 1 misdemeanor arrest. Service for March 62.75 hours and administrative hours 38.02.
Broad St. Mayor Sanford said in regards to Broad Street. I had a
conversation with the lieutenant. There’s a sign there,
put in place, for both directions. It has been currently,
if they haven’t pulled it yet, down on this end of
Broad Street. It was recommended that they put that up
for days before enforcement. There has been enforcement
there, specifically close to weekends. And there is a major
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 57
effort planned in the very near future in conjunction with
this state grant. Councilman Snyder asked what kind of
sign? Mayor Sanford said a little pole sign that has
the speed limit. Councilman Snyder said oh, do you
have to put that up before you run a speed trap? Mayor
Sanford said they normally do. Councilman Myers asked
is that the one that has the computer in? Mayor Sanford
said yeah, and has the LED. Typically, if you see the sign
up don’t. Councilman Snyder asked now when they do
that in conjunction with the state, do those service hours
show up against that? Mayor Sanford said I am not sure
on that, because the time is subsidized there to bring
guys in. When I was writing my report I was thinking about
that, so I am going to ask that question, yes. Because on my
report I get being on the police commission, it shows how
we tracking for the year, as far as ahead or below hours.
We’re in a deficit on that one. Make a detail its going to.
We have plans on doing some hours up there.
Councilman Snyder asked anything for the mayor?
Open Records The secretary said John and I attended open records. I need
to get a copy of the information to Pete and Sam. They asked
that Pete review it. By January 1, 2009, the new office of
Open Records Officer will be needed to be appointed. If
anybody wants to read over it, I have a copy here. The act is
Audit Firms The secretary reported that I sent out eight letters to eight
different firms for audit proposals. I have one coming in
tomorrow at eleven, I gave the deadline of May 15th because
I knew audit firms would be busy because of the
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 58
April 15th tax deadline. So I do have one coming in. Four
have declined. Three I haven’t heard from.
Elderly Correspond- Mayor Sanford said this goes in circulatory file,
ence correspondence. This is correspondence dealing with
elderly. There are three seminars, Southern Community
Services. So we will put this is in the file, if anyone
is interested in it.
State Mayor Sanford said we also got correspondence from the
Dept. Of General State Department of General Services. Barry, they have
Services a bridge for sale. A metal bridge for sale.
Re-codification Councilman Allar said about the re-codification. We were
suppose to find something out. The secretary said I think
he’ll be discussing that, hopefully under old/new
business. Councilman Snyder said it will be discussed
under the secretary’s report along with insurance quotes.
Insurance quotes Councilman Snyder said everyone receive the information
that Sandy provided, I think it was pretty much self
explanatory on insurance quotes. What type of a motion
do you? The secretary said it expires by May 31st, he’s
pretty sure you won’t get any other quotes for workmen’s
comp. Its EMC insurance. Is there any other discussion?
I don’t know that just for, personal information, we send
a copy of this information down to Ted Hake at the
ambulance club. Just let him know, that we got gigged on
that on workmen’s comp, the amount of claims. And when
you have one claim for $54.00. Think smart. You know
what I mean. We are still paying the bill, but now we’re
going to be paying this 25% surcharge for the next three
years. Because of the amount of claims. When I saw that
one claim for $54.00 its like, $58.00. I would have rather
paid that out of pocket than turn that in. The secretary
said they go back three years. That’s what I explained
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 59
in there. The reasoning why it went up so much, you
saw why. You had two claims, and one was $37,000.00 and
its still open. And that went to that rating board, the rating
board and they said we have to put whatever multiplier
up. Councilman Allar said if they printed out I assume
that was all of them. The secretary said that was the claims
over the years received by the insurance company and they
keep track. I have years in there, I didn’t copy all of them.
Councilman Snyder said its just a FYI, to let everyone
know that we’re going to get gigged on this. The secretary
said the breakdown is on the bottom of the page. Councilman
Snyder said it would be information he may be interested to
know. I would want council’s approval before we send
information like that down, to keep it confidential and for
him to use as he sees fit to try manage. We all got to work
together. I’m not saying we shouldn’t pay claims or
anything like that, I don’t think Ted would take that
the wrong way. Councilman Myers said I don’t think
that’s Ted’s, I think that’s the fire company. That is when
she burned her foot. She went to the hospital. That’s
kind of amazing. The secretary said she may have given
her own insurance card there. Not thought about it being
workmen’s comp. Councilman Snyder said it seemed
funny that they would have paid a claim of $58.00.
For $58.00. Councilman Myers said we went her
to the hospital, how would you know its going to
be $58.00. The secretary said so you have to take
into consideration for your budget next year, 25%
percent increase. It will be about $3500.00 next year,
then about $4,000.00 the following year increase.
The secretary said and you understood that Dana
couldn’t be on a separate policy, that he has to
be under the ambulance club’s hired persons
policy. So they will be billing us back for Dana’s
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 60
portion of workmen’s comp. They have to pay out.
So we’ll going to take him off ours, it will go down.
We’ll be paying it out under leased services. Its
not going to be separated, his total bill will be
under one lumped amount. Councilman Snyder
said I don’t see any signature page in here right now.
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to accept
the quotes from EMC Insurance between June 1, 2008
to June 1, 2009. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said the motion
carried. Mayor Sanford asked the secretary, you said
there will be a 25% increase next year? Councilman
Myers said and that’s because of the claims? The secretary
said yes. The secretary said it can’t go anymore than
25%. Councilman Snyder said the way I understood it,
its just not the 25% surcharge, it’s a 25% increase this
year, then a 25% increase the next year and then a
25% increase the third year. The secretary said he is
saying another claim, depending on how big that claim
is , it could be another year of 25%, if the insurance
company looks at it that way. Councilman Snyder said
there’s a certain dollar amount that puts you into that
threshold and now that we’re into that threshold. Its
because of this year that we just picked up. Councilman
Snyder said I think its combination of number and dollars.
It was the dollar amount. Councilman Myers said what is
interesting about this, is what Mr. Webb’s was, was what
Jason Mosebok’s was. Jason had a injury, he was out of service
Sewer Authority Councilman Snyder said there was a notice as FYI that the
sewer authority presented their latest outstanding invoice
report for April 30,2008. Total outstanding amount is now
$7158.00 in unpaid fees.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 61
Agreement Councilman Snyder said we did get an agreement back from
From Keystate Keystate Publishers, everybody got that in their packet.
Publishers Basically, if everybody looked, from what you received
in the packet. This is the actual proposal here. From what
Sandy copied over, its really simple. They’re offering for
$1425.00 to do and put in our current book and get us up
to date as of whatever date as of 2008-01. And then $15.00
per page after that until they finish it. With that there would
also be a CD. Personally when I met with the people, and
Sandy met with them, I liked they’re CD format better.
Because its not proprietary, they didn’t charge you to
keep it maintained. Its set up, just if ever get on the
county’s website and go unto the municipal subdivision
plan. Its set up just like that. You type in word, it comes
up everywhere its at. Its strictly Adobe. Real simple to
use. The other option they gave, for $6020.00 and that’s
going back, completely redoing the book updating ordinances,
to make them in conformance with the laws such as
UCC and the zoning, things like that. Updating fines, statutory
requirements. Codifying all the ordinances into a new book
and also providing 15 new books as well as a CD. When
I spoke to him and I said I would also like an option,
for taking some of our ordinances and getting them indexed
because I’ve been having trouble. Like in this book, they
have a reference to an adoption of a street, say Main Street.
And then someone calls and says what did we adopt. I don’t know, you have to go back and dig up the old ordinance
to see that they adopted 45 feet from this point to this point,
35 feet from this point. There’s issue with our cable franchise,
the only thing that is listed is in the appendix that we
entered into the cable franchise. Doesn’t give you any of
the specifics. Things of that nature. Our garbage contract
doesn’t give you any of the specifics. So we don’t know
when any of this stuff runs out. Just like the Sewer Authority,
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 62
its looming out there, and everyone knows we’re going to
get that back. Without the original ordinance, I don’t know
when that is. To get all that extra indexing done. They would
put it as separate index in the back so they aren’t duplicating
information so basically then you would type in like Main
Street and it would pick up Chapter 13, which is Street but
it would also pick it up in the index. That they would
actually scan in and you would actually see the ordinance.
For the extra $500.00. They said they would be willing to
work with us. I think we budgeted $4000.00. You have
to give something up front. Councilman Allar said the
previous one was like $11,000 or $12,000.00. Councilman
Snyder said it was $11,500.00 which was for what they
want to do for the $6500.00. I forget. I was like $5,000.00
to do just the general, it was quite a bit more. Councilman
Allar said so we are saving $5,000.00. I thought this was
going to be a good thing. Councilman Snyder said I
actually like his system better. The secretary said he use
to work for Fry Communications. Councilman Snyder
said at this point, they said they are willing to work with
us. I didn’t see anything in this proposal that allowed us,
as far as, the timing and stuff. What I’ll do is ask for a
motion to approve based on further negotiations to work
out payment schedules. That way, to hold off until at least
next month, with Sandy’s vacation coming in June. Its
going to be difficult for them to come down, cause they
wanted to start in thirty days. And that way we can push
that back to July and that will give us a little more time.
Again now that we’re doing this, I encourage everyone,
cause they’re going, because I assume we’re going to
go through with the full codification. Now is the time,
if anyone has changes that they want to make, instead
of holding this up for months and months and getting
a committee. Just bring them to council table, just
like I did with the property maintenance code and
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 63
we’ll start a list and give them to Sandy say this is what
we want to include. I found this one, I want to make new
weed restrictions. Everybody discusses it. The secretary
said I think we should get together and have a meeting
to discuss them all. Councilman Snyder said how long did
it take to bring it up, everyone is in agreement, unless
its something controversial. Hey I found a typo, I want to
change. Councilman Allar said no one here is going to
wade through that book, if we have things to change.
Councilman Snyder said as far as zoning goes, there’s
not a whole lot there. We’re built out. There’s not a
whole lot of zoning we need to touch up. Anything we
need to touch up, is our safety ordinances, you know,
like properties, like the one up at 210. Where we can
try to strengthen them, to say you can’t have junk
sitting on your front. Let’s face it, there’s nothing
ordinance that says that you can’t have junk. And
what classifies junk sitting out like that. There’s nothing
you can do about it. Bring them up to council, if
we have to set up a committee meeting then we’ll
do it. I brought three things. The secretary said
you will have to have an editorial meeting? Councilman
Snyder said I’d like to have as few meetings as
possible especially if you talking about the summer
months and then we’re getting right into budget
meeting. The secretary said I want it done right. Councilman
Allar said I agree with Sandy, I think its pretty important
to get it done right. The secretary said if you’re going
to spend six thousand bucks, you want to do it right.
There is a sample ordinance book and disc, if anyone
wants to take that home. See how those ordinances
can apply to our ordinances, then you can take it home
with you. You will write down what you want, and we’ll
keep it in a folder. Councilman Snyder said I’m just
saying I don’t care if we have committee meetings.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 64
We can have as many meetings as you want. We can drag
it out for months. I don’t care. What I am saying is, I don’t
want to end up being the only person at a meeting and
end up doing it all myself. If council wants to have meetings.
All I’m saying if we want to have committee meetings, then
council has to willing to spend the time. Otherwise we
just bring these issues up, because the book’s already
written. We just bring the issues up, for five minutes, say
this is what we are proposing. You agree with it or you
don’t. We are not instituting new ordinances, we’re
making changes to existing ordinances. There’s no
discussion because when we had the property maintenance
thing, okay that got into big discussions. Because do you
want it or don’t you want it. Its already on the books. Do
we want to raise sidewalk, tree limbs to fifteen feet? Okay,
you have a reason for it, I don’t care. If you say your new
fire truck is twenty foot high. There’s a reason for it.
Councilman Allar said how many people would come?
Mayor Sanford said depending on their schedule. Councilman
Snyder said and when we’re start talking summer months and
then coming right up to budget. So I think like I said, they’re
going to want to start this thing rolling. We can’t hold them
off after we sign the agreement. We’re going to be talking
August, September. Cause when we sign this in June, they’re
be in, in July, based on having our rough draft back in
thirty days. We edit there copy. That is when we’d submit
revisions when they submit their copy. So you’re talking
August time frame. They right it, and bind it. And say
what we want revised. That is why we are going to work
a payment schedule. Maybe $1500.00 this, $1500.00 next year
and make this a three year period. They’re locked if we sign.
So that’s my ideas. The motion was made by Councilman Allar
to start negotiating the payment plan. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
motion carried. Councilman Snyder asked that the secretary
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 65
to contact General Codes.
Taping Machine Councilman Allar asked how its going to find a taping machine
for the minutes. The secretary said that hasn’t been forgotten
but hasn’t been done yet. It will be but will take time.
Councilman Snyder asked if there is anything else for the
Agreement Councilman Snyder said you will notice the updates that Sandy
Updates kindly provided on the agreements down at the bottom. I guess
for just for FYI, we haven’t received a signed agreement from
Experience Works? The secretary said no. Councilman Allar
said an update on that. The Department of Labor has cut
funds for that program. Had we approved the agreement back
September, October, November, December, even up to
January or February, Sheridan would have been on the roles,
He would have been funded for that year. Turned out, about
the time that we were filing for approval, this cut came in.
So they can not hire. We’ve lost that opportunity, the funding
stopped. That’s the way that is. That’s why we didn’t get
the agreement. The second thing, this thing with the church.
Reverend Mentzer was to get back to us about what insurance
coverage his counselors have? Vice ve, molestation.
Councilman Snyder said he was going to check on that,
we weren’t going hold up the agreement. Councilman
Allar said he has it. Councilman Snyder said he said he
would look into it. The secretary said he never reported
anything back. Councilman Snyder said we want to for next
Unfinished Business (cont.) Page 66
year. The secretary said, that’s what you said you weren’t
going to make an issue, until next year. Councilman
Snyder said we’ll bring it up ahead of time, to see if
he checked into it.
Request For Councilman Allar said in the packet, there was a request for
Scope of Work the scope of work, for the Red Lion,Dallastown, Yoe
Borough Comprehensive Plan. Are there any comments
on this so I can take it back to the next meeting? So
we can put this out for engineer’s and so forth that will
helping us with the content. We will be putting in for
a grant for CDBG. Mayor Sanford asked when would
you need those comments by? Councilman Allar said
as soon as possible I don’t have a date for the next
meeting. Pen and ink, whatever possible.
YCPC Councilman Snyder said the only thing I had was notification
Notification from York County Planning that they’re again trying to get
the word out to homeowners, owner occupant residents,
for three different programs. Home improvement programs,
sewer hook up program, water line hook up program. 0%
interest deferred loans. There is also the York County
weatherization program, which is open to both home
owners and renters. Additional information is here at
the borough office and of course there is contact information.
The secretary said the brochures are in the circulate
Re Do Councilman Myers said I would like to request $300.00
Borough Map to help York Township, redo the borough map. And
they would do it with fire hydrants for us. They need
$300.00 to do it. We have a rough map of Yoe but
New Business(cont.) Page 67
we get a new map with the hydrants. The town is
split up in two boxes. We would have a set, have a
hard copy in each vehicle. Mayor Sanford said we
give that to our neighboring departments as well.
Councilman Snyder said the county has a that GIS.
Councilman Myers said its not as elaborate
as York Township. The motion was made by
Councilman Myers to expend $300.00 for
the borough map. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried. Councilman Myers said
an invoice for that will be sent.
Yearly Councilman Myers said Saturday we have our yearly work
Work Detail detail where we clean up and mulch. I would like to
request that we borrow the truck. It would make it a lot
easier. I could drive it. Drop off the truck off on Friday.
Councilman Snyder I don’t have a problem with it. There’s
a consensus of council that they can use the truck for the
Payment of Bills
Councilman Manns said that Comcast had a problem. Mayor
Sanford said it was with the internet. Councilman Snyder asked
how are we doing with engineering and the solicitor? The
secretary said about $4000.00 for legal. The secretary said
engineering has been good, he hasn’t been really busy
the first three months of the year. We just got a bill for
$100.00 for basin dredging which is going in the folder.
Councilman Snyder said we bumped that up to $22,000.00,
so if he comes in with $10,000.00 we still have money
to play with a little bit. Councilman Allar asked what
Payment of Bills(cont.) Page 68
was that for basin dredging? The secretary said the bill
is in the bill folder there. Here is the bill folder. Councilman
Snyder said it could be communication. Every time he talks
on the phone, just like Pete, he has to account for his time .
We get built for it. If he is on the phone. Councilman Snyder
said you got do what you got to do. A motion was made
by Councilman Manns to pay the bills as listed. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said bills paid.
Councilman Myers asked how Ronnie is doing? Councilman
Snyder said last I heard, there was a possibility that he was
getting out of the hospital on Monday. I haven’t seen any
activity down there. I never got a call tonight. He usually
calls and says he can’t make it.
A motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Councilman
Myers at 11:34PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Snyder. All in favor.