YOE BOROUGH PG. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
Continuation of the recessed July 6, 2010 Yoe Borough Council meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 6:33PM.
Those in attendance:
Sam Snyder George Howett
Wendy Coble Tyson
Councilman Sam Snyder said this is to go over codification and hopefully finish that up.
Everybody had the opportunity to read over the notes that the codifier gave us and the preliminary draft. I think we’re down to, I only found three issues other than of course,
the property maintenance that we were discussing. We discussed the burn ordinance. I only found one other item that I think needs to be added. That is under driveways, just add an extra section in there, where driveways, cause we have sections that require no more than two on a property. They have to be so many feet. Just that a driveway shouldn’t be located within five feet of a municipal line or utility line. That way because there are issues, a good example I use is Yoe Auto Parts. That road coming out of Yoe Auto Parts is right there at that storm drain, so as tractor trailers make that curve they’re driving up over the storm drain. And we end having to replace it. I think five feet is plenty for a driveway, utility pole, it gives. I would think five feet is plenty to say a driveway can’t be located within five foot of an utility. And that could be storm water, that could be an utility pole that could be gas, gas thing that you see sticking out, anything that is above ground like that. Councilman Naylor asked do we have a fire hydrant? Councilman Snyder said that is already in there. You could consider that as an utility. If everyone is agreement I’ll just bring that up to the codifier to. Councilman Allar said the only other thing besides property maintenance, there was some issues awhile back, about swimming pools, was that resolved at that time. Somewhere it was not clear as to. Councilman Snyder said we tightened up some things about swimming pool, that was those issues with those portable pools, temporary pools. Before we can get into the property maintenance, hopefully we can kick out property maintenance fairly quickly.
But the only other thing was the burn ban. I’m seeing two heads, thinking we should do the burn ban. Your thoughts. Councilman Naylor said I don’t have a problem with the way it is now. Covers on them or something like that, small fire pit, I think is fine.
Councilman Allar said what is the opinion of the fire company, they have issues?
Has the county? Councilman Snyder said this is something that the county has brought up, he said cause of the closeness of the proximity of the homes just. Councilman Noll
said except for the fact of the barbeque type stuff, we wouldn’t band, we have a lot of people who just are burning. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said I read it, I just wanted to make sure I interrupted it properly. Councilman Snyder said yeah, that’s where Seth
July 6, 2010 Continuation of Meeting Page 2
I think wanted to have it up for discussion, did we want to ban that. I asked Rotz for a sample wording or legislation and he actually said with regards to the burning ban provisions many municipalities simply copy DEP restriction. Well DEP restrictions allow what we already allow, which is believe it or not, a fire set for the purpose of burning domestic refuse when the fire is on the premises of the structure occupied solely as a dwelling by two families or less. That’s what we already regulate, cause we say you are allowed to burn but it has to be in a burn barrel, it has to be covered, it has to be twenty five foot from any building and not located on any street or public right of way. Councilman Naylor said can we say you can’t burn refuse. Councilman Snyder said I think that’s what Seth wants to get rid of, that you don’t even allow the burn barrel. We have everything else in place, the only thing we would have to also to put in for exemption, cause the way our ordinance is written, we already eliminate burning. Then
we allow exemptions, and the exemption is of course one of those and then we go through and say it has to be in a barrel, it has to be covered, 25 foot away from the building and not in a public right of way. So what we basically we need to do, is keep the ordinance in affect but that that exemption out. Now in doing so, it was also pointed out to me that do not have in here, which we would have to put in, a fire set solely for the purpose of cooking, back yard barbequing and a fire set for recreational or ceremonial purposes. Like the church down here on Christmas Eve they put out their little jugs with the little candles in. Councilwoman Coble Tyson asked what do the chimeneras and fire pits go under? Councilman Snyder said recreational. They would be, we could add them in.
We are just eliminating burn barrels. So it’s a consensus. Councilwoman Coble Tyson I didn’t measure mine, I don’t have a really big yard. Councilman Snyder said there would be no criteria, just like your back yard barbeque. There’s no criteria for the chimeneras, fire pits. Councilman Snyder said the twenty five feet was with the burn barrel. Councilman Noll said I just wanted to make sure we covered, I know this happened five, six years ago, the home owner basically burned the whole bank off. We don’t allow
any of that type of stuff. Councilman Snyder said no, any type of open burning at all is a no no. I’ll make a note we’ll add in the, one of those things, do we want to address it now, or address it only if it becomes an issue. Which is the way the EPA regulation is set, these exemptions, it’s a fire set for recreational ceremonial purposes. Fire set for cooking too, that takes care of chimeneras, fire pits, the church. Did you want, that is how EPA says it, or did you want actually get into the criteria in saying so long as it is in an approved manufactured container for that purpose. Theoretically if someone wanted to push the envelope, we could have a little campfire thing, your little ring with your little stones and that’s recreational fire. Councilman Noll said I would put the wording in.
Councilman Snyder said a manufactured container for that purpose. They don’t, if its
a recreational fire, even your barbeques, I don’t anyone who would barbeque over an open spit. But even if it is, it would be manufactured for that purpose. Councilman Noll said even up at the park, if there is a barbeque, its in a manufactured for that purpose.
Councilman Snyder said we’re just trying to do away with the fire rings so to speak. Which I never remember anyone doing, so I will put that in. Then the only other thing
July 6,2010 Continuation of Meeting Page 3
then was this property maintenance code. What he actually said, Ken Rotz, he doesn’t recommend doing it with codification, because you tie up codification. However he said, one can do it, if one chooses. So, I tried to come up with an idea, of what the easiest way
to achieve everybody’s goal, I think we’re all the same page on what we’re trying to achieve. The typical, say a property in the vicinity of the Mill Creek, on Main Street, we all know those type of properties that are eye sores that we are trying to clean up. So,
I checked with Dan Shaw. I checked with Pete. I saw Tom had picked up what Dallastown has. After coordinating everything together and even going over what we have ourselves, and Pete, this is Pete’s recommendation as well. In our existing ordinance, we take that one section which would be Chapter 5, 5-11. And we are looking at Section 306, that’s what we currently have for building and structures. Now Pete said we could go after that property we all know about, even without this. He likes it, that was the whole contention here, he liked better like that then it’s our interpretation for what constitutes that health and safety hazard and then we go after them and we say this is why this is a health and safety hazard. The problem we’re finding with enforcement is that Code Administrators who does the inspections, is asking have you adopted the Property Maintenance Code. And they don’t want to cite anything unless you adopted the Property Maintenance Code. Well that’s like overkill for what we are trying to achieve because the Property Maintenance Code of course gets into ventilation, it gets into electrical and all this other stuff. What I asked Pete, I said what about this, we add a section four right underneath that basically says for the purpose of this section, which now you are talking about section 306, Buildings and Structures, we adopt Chapter 2 which is definitions and Chapter 3 which is general provisions of the property maintenance code that we are
currently using for the rental properties. If you pull out, and then just say and then those chapters apply as our standard when enforcing this section. So when people are looking at let’s say section 1, it says you must maintain your structure and accessory structure, and maintain to be required from time to time to insure the property is structurally sound and in good repair, safe and sanitary, then the zoning officer goes back and says what does that mean? He looks up what is already passed and we are already enforcing on our
rental properties, and he’ll say what’s in Chapter Three. You have sidewalks, you have driveways, you have weeds, you have rodents/harborage, you have exhaust vents. It talks about that the exterior of the structure shall be maintained in good repair, you have to
have everything painted. Like in section 303-2, the protective treatment, all exterior surfaces is included but not limited to doors shall be maintained, decay resistant, no peeling flaking chipped paint, etc. etc. etc. When I combined that and looked that over
with what Dallastown had, I bet you, once you get passed all the definitions, every single one of them, I marked down exactly what they have, where you can find that in that
Property Maintenance Code, its almost saying the same thing. So if all we have to do is add one little paragraph that says we’re adopting that to use as our standard and then we adopt the definitions, that’s why its Chapter 2, because you have to say, when they say what’s dilapidated, what’s peeling, well then we go over there. I then asked Dan, I said what do you think about that, I said about what I’m proposing to enforce Chapter 10,
July 6, 2010 Continuation of Meeting Page 4
and I said basically we’re proposing that another sub section would be added that we’re adopting Chapter 2 and Chapter 3, the general requirements with minimum guidelines,
specifications when enforcing that section. And then his answer, I think Chapter 3 would be sufficient ammo for property such as, I have a copy of the 2006 Code, but I can get a copy of the 2009 Code and I’m sure if there are any changes or not, I’m not sure of there are any changes or not, there are a couple of other properties that would benefit. So he’s saying, take that language and run with it. Councilman Noll said the thing that it gives us is two fold, one the entire code gets invasive and Chapters 2 and 3 gives us the definitions and the ability to go after the appearance of blighted properties. The biggest thing that it does, is I know Pete likes things to be sort of in general, but that also opens us to , well I don’t interrupt it that way, our lawyer will meet with your lawyer and we’ll figure this out. Its an accepted code of definitions and its much more acceptable in a court of law.
Councilman Snyder said so Dan doesn’t have a problem going with it. I think once now,
if Code Administrators would say, have you adopted the Property Maintenance Code, we can say yeah, in as much as this chapter for that purpose, we have adopted Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 and go after that blighted property down there, and use Chapter 3. Well, now I know a lot of it does not apply, Pete said that, when you get into like, the rubbish and garbage, we already have another section for rubbish and garbage. It does talk about,
the extermination and infestation, which we are taking care of, in the new vector ordinance that we’re passing, but I said, you know what instead of picking and choosing
certain sections, it will be so much easier, if we say we’re adopting Chapter 2 and 3, so what if Chapter 302 talks about grading drainage of a driveway. You know what, we’re never going to enforce that section anyways, we’re going to go under our own driveway
ordinance or our own MS 4 ordinance and get them under that. Really what we want is this peeling and flaking of paint, we want. Councilman Noll said I think what we can say that it is within our ordinances, whatever is the most restrictive is what we enforce. It gives you that lead way. Councilman Naylor said I agree with Seth, definitions, terminology that we use. Councilman Allar said the wording in the Dallastown one, sets the tone, preamble to the judge to hear where the borough is coming from. If you read this, reflective level of maintenance, keeping with the residential standards of the neighborhood, or such higher standards as later established, and regulations to the affect of the appearance of the premises. The structure is so maintained that it does not constituent a providing factor for the adjoining property owner relieving aggressive deterioration of downgrading of the neighborhood and accompanying the investment of property values. In other words, its coming to a judge, that we’ve gone through this, that we set a certain standard for our community and Nate tells me he never lost. He goes up on these judgmental issues and the judge backs him up. And it works. Setting the parameters to what we’re trying to pass. Not just the specific health and safety and objectives. Councilman Snyder said that’s basically what we do with sections 1, 2 and 3. Which is why we say why we’re regulating. We don’t talk about property values.
Councilman Allar said all I’m saying its going to make it a lot easier when we go in front of the judge. Councilman Noll said whose to say what the property value is. Councilman
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Allar said all I’m saying is, I’m telling you, he’s been doing it for years, and been getting away with it. He’s telling me this works. Councilman Snyder said I was going on what our own officers were saying. This is what they want to enforce, the Property Maintenance Code, it made sense that after talking to Pete, when he said if you find they show a consistency among the municipalities, you’ve already adopted that for rental properties, you’re applying the same standards to owned properties. Councilman Allar said I just wanted to throw that out there. Councilman Noll said once you get into building codes, its very described. Have we had any challenges when we applied this to our apartment complexes? Councilman Snyder said we had, well the one appeal, that came here, that had to do with the exterior, that had to do with that, ventilation, it
didn’t have enough windows. Dana was trying to say that the one room was going to be rented out. That was the only one we ever had. That’s why, that one property that we
are talking about, he took his out of his definition of being a rental property when we
instituted that so he wouldn’t get caught up in that. I don’t think Dana has really had an issue where there’s been a property like an eyesore on the outsight. I don’t think he’s had an issue with it. Most of the rental properties, and that’s what I’ve been saying all along,
most of the rental properties look half decent, how they look on the inside is a different story. But they look half decent on the outside. The problem is and we’re cleaning that up with this change. The one person was saying, I’m no longer renting. Well if you’re saying you’re not renting, we have no way to prove it. Now with this change we’re going to catch them because we’re saying for the purpose of our ordinance any property that is not owner occupied is going to be deemed a rental property so they can’t get away from it.
In this instance unless he’s living in all three house, two of them are going to be considered rentals, I don’t care if you’re getting money for them or not. Its going to fall under one of them, this is going to fall under the general populous. So if everybody is agreement to that, do you want Pete to draft that up or use that potential language I just gave you, which basically is to connect another sub section which says for the purpose
or standard we’re adopting. Want Pete to do that? Solicitor Solymos said no problem.
Councilman Naylor said I’m not entirely in agreement with it but I’m pretty sure I’ll be out voted. Councilman Snyder said I wrestled with it too Dave, because there’s a lot of more restrictive stuff, but it came to the point we had to do this, its like, we do have a problem in town even when Pete was saying just adopt this section or that section, you know before you try to gut the whole thing, its like, keep everything moving forward, let’s adopt it and we’ll go from here and then let’s see how we do. If we have to change something a year from now, we have to change something. Councilman Noll said my opinion is that this gives us a tool to go after issues, its not that we’re sending our zoning
officer out to look at some issues. Councilman Snyder said and its still, can it be abused. most certainly. Like any other ordinance. We got in the middle of many contests between neighbors, where this neighbor would call and complain on this one, and then this one would call and complain back something else. That’s when the zoning officer will use his judgment and say we’re not getting in the middle of that. Otherwise, the direction of the zoning officer, the zoning officer is still working under the direction, its based off of
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complaint. Then we’ll direct Pete. The other thing that I discussed with Pete to keep it consistent with the other ordinance. Was adopt the 1998 with language and any subsequent revisions, that way we pick up that 2009 Property Maintenance Code, the way the ordinance reads, we still are adopting and applying it like we do for the rental properties. Which is using the 1998 with subsequent revisions. so theoretically we’ll be using the 2009. I did look at what Seth provided in the 2009. And believe it or not, I didn’t look at the definitions, as far as I read that didn’t change so we’re alright there.
So I think we’ll okay there. Pete, if you can have that in a week, I’d like to set up the meeting with Ken Rotz which I’d like to do by the middle of the month. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll have it to you by Friday. Other than that we are good to go for codification, those three issues that were discussed.
Adjournment of the July 6,2010 Meeting
A motion was made by Councilman Noll to adjourn the July 6, 2010 meeting. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said meeting is adjourned.
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on August 3,2010 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order at 7:06PM by Council President Sam Snyder with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council members in attendance:
Wendy Coble Tyson
Others in attendance:
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Steve Malesker, Engineer
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Stacy Blessing, Newsletter Editor
Daniel Smith, Resident of 119 W. Water Street
Minutes Page 7
Councilman Snyder asked if everyone went over the minutes from the prior month, any additions or corrections. A motion was made by Councilman Naylor to accept the prior month’s minutes. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said minutes accepted.
Stacy Blessing from 123 E. Penna. Avenue, our newsletter editor said its newsletter time. I have an outline for the fall/winter newsletter to pass out. So in order to get the Yoe Borough Park opening date in, order to get a newsletter out I would like to get it ready by the end of September. It will take about two weeks to get it ready, then ARD can deliver it on a Monday. If I don’t have your name listed on there or an item that you would want listed on there, these are just items that people have suggested to me. The secretary said the 2011 meeting dates will be on the website so you can note that on the newsletter.
An email was sent about the dates/coupon for the Christmas Magic at Rocky Ridge was sent, please call me if you didn’t get it. The website has it posted also. A copy of the notice from the county was given to Ms. Blessing. Councilman Noll asked are there
dates set for leaf collection. The secretary said Dana probably hasn’t gotten that far yet to check with Dallastown. Check the website and possibly the Community Courier. We have on the announcement to please place leaves curbside, more and likely pick up will probably not be until the beginning of November sometime. There might be two. Last year the procedure changed, one time it was every Monday for like four weeks then it changed, I have no idea what will be in store for this year. Check the phone, the website or possibly the Community Courier. Councilman Snyder said the big news for the borough is going to be if we get the money for this and its going to be a major overhaul.
We’re not going to know until February. Its something that its going to impact the entire municipality and its going to be months. You are talking traffic upheaval, monetary wise, major impact. We mentioned it in the last newsletter, we can put in there, it was put in
for, we’re not going to know until February if we get the grant. This is just to keep them
apprised. Councilman Noll asked if we want to say something about the ceremony that
we had for the flag pole for Ron Crull, what we did. Are there any pictures? Councilman Snyder said I didn’t take any, the secretary didn’t take any. There’s a lot of stuff that by the time, its old news. Of course by the time its coming up. I have something that is going to be very noteworthy. Except by the time this goes to print, its going to be over. Matter of fact, I want to make sure we get a good press release, people are going to be impacted quite a bit. The secretary said you may want to let people know that there is a new flag
pole at the borough building, and it was dedicated on June 14th in honor/memory of Ron Crull. Councilman Allar asked where we are at the budget right now? The secretary said
we are pretty even right now. Councilman Snyder said there are things I want to get it,
but it probably won’t be good for this one. I’ll find out more at the end of August, we’re
going through codification right now, that has some changes, we were discussing some
of the changes that has to impact some of the residents. I’ll know more after I met with
the codifier this month as far as when its going to be set for adoption. That has to go
through York County Planning, 30 day comment period. I don’t think it will be
Visitors (cont.) Page 8
ready until the spring of next year. But depending on when he says, I’ll have the final
draft back to you by November. I can say something like that. Ms. Blessing said that sounds good. Councilman Snyder said there are a lot of ordinances that are changing.
One of the big things, is burn ban. Right now we allow open burning in barrels, with cover. We are going to eliminate that. It’s a good newsworthy item. Its not going to
be ready for this one, but the next one, it will be closer. Until I talk to codifier, until he says I’ll have the final draft to the solicitor to advertise, he’ll say it will take four
months to do that. I don’t know how long that will take. I’m going to meet with him sometime in August. I’ll have it back to you if he says he’ll have it back to me in a month or two. Like that article I gave you, an open letter to new residents, we’re always going
to have new residents influx. It touched on a lot of things. Ms. Blessing asked do you
want to run it again? Councilman Snyder said I think its good since we’re only doing
it every six months. Definitely says new residents, its geared for them. Councilman Allar said to talk to Ted Hake. Ms. Blessing said I did. Councilman Naylor asked is the newsletter on the website? Ms. Blessing said it is now. Thank you.
Daniel Smith of 119 W. Water Street, I moved in about 3 years ago, that mobile home.
I’m in the process of revamping the building. I’m trying very hard to improve the buildings there. Modification per borough ordinance. I’m twenty six years old, I have found this area to be good and I’m happy here. During the last couple of weeks, the storm drains near Broad Street. I have been reading the borough’s website. Up behind my shed, there’s a drain that washes out and has numerous amounts of stone. I don’t know if anyone is aware of it. Something that could be looked into to change it. For prevention or to modify it. I just wanted to stop in to make you aware of it. At the same time its been years, since I sat in on one of these meetings. Councilman Snyder said glad that you did, interesting that you brought that up. One of the things that I was talking to Stacy about, is that we just had our engineer go through and drew a storm water comprehensive update, as you mention the work up on Broad Street, we had a collapse up there. The idea of this, is for borough wide, look at the entire system and make suggested upgrades. What was actually brought from our engineer, was close to $900,000.00 of work that needs to be done. As far as your particular issue that you were talking about. Mr. Malesker said I’m not exactly sure where you live, if you want to come here. This is Water Street. Mr. Smith said I think I’m right here, Pennsylvania Avenue comes here by my house. So my shed is right here, there is a big old wash out right here. Mr. Malesker said this pipe is going to be replaced right here. Mr.Smith said currently there is an alley way on top of Pennsylvania Avenue that runs behind these houses right at the end of the alley. There’s an alley way, some of it here and some down here. Its right at the top of that alley it just
washes out. Without taking a look at it, I don’t know. Mr. Malesker asked is it just
cinders? Mr. Smith said its cinders and I get a lot of trash. I keep on it. Over the last three years you can see that things have grown as time goes by. And from time to time if we have torrential downpours it washes out. Councilman Snyder said and probably some of those repairs and improvements that we are doing upstream will keep a lot of that from
coming down to that area. Councilman Noll said its not a pipe, its actually just running across the road. Mr. Smith said its actually underneath at the ground in the alley way,
Visitors (cont.) Page 9
right underneath the road there is a big eight inch pipe that comes out to opening that drops down. Someone has taken the time to black top it, a drop with an angle there.
It washes out. It is right at where the old railroad use to be. It just washed out. Councilman Naylor asked is that the one that comes out of Maple. Councilwoman Tyson Coble said back further, its down from Poplar, drains down. The part that he is talking about, his shed sits up here on Pennsylvania Avenue. What he is talking about, his building is right here, coming down through and it rains down along the back of his.
Mr. Smith said I was just seeing if there is any modifications to improve the drainage.
Mr. Malesker said I’ll look in our MS-4 report to see if there is anything regarding that because recommending maintenance there, because part of the MS-4 requirements is
checking outfall structures. If there is erosion occurring then that’s something that needs to be addressed. It doesn’t sound like so much erosion as deposition. Mr. Smith said exactly yeah, its not so much erosion. A lot of cinders build up. Mr. Malesker said more a maintenance issue. Mr. Smith said I think its more of a maintenance issue. It collects cinders, I don’t have problem keeping up with it, but where to go with the cinders. I haven’t taken the time to talk to anybody. I am going to re do shed. I wanted to let you know. Councilman Naylor said we appreciate you coming in and telling us about it.
Mr. Smith said exactly. Councilman Snyder said so you will take a look at that then,
Mr. Malesker said yeah. Councilman Snyder said so if nothing else we want to make
sure it didn’t fall through the cracks. That it is on our MS-4. Mr. Smith said and that it doesn’t cause problems for drainage. Councilman Snyder said we’re definitely on the hook for MS-4, for drainage things of that nature. So we want to be kept apprised of it.
And that may be something that we will have to put on a schedule, more clean out for Dana or whatever. Mr. Smith said I’ve notice with just talking with people. My daytime job is I install security systems for residential people and commercial. I find a lot of people, in public townships, when it comes to ordinances and things like that, if there are implications when people what to change driveways and things like that. 55% drainage.
Do you guys have things like that, policies? Councilman Snyder said our zoning
ordinance does. Mr. Smith said it was something I thought of. Councilman Snyder said it will be a lot easier once we go through codification, believe it our note, this is going to be our ordinance books, we are going to be getting this on a disc, so all our ordinances will all be on one CD Rom. People can come up and say I want a copy of the ordinances. The
secretary said it will be on the website. Councilman Snyder said the way it is set up right now its not so user friendly. But that’s coming hopefully next year.
Councilman Snyder asked any other visitors?
Solicitor Solymos said last month you wanted me to get the information from Dallastown, I did I talked to Connie. I got her ordinances, requirements for their garbage. There was concern that we try to coordinate at least our years with their years so that
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 10
sometime in the future if we wanted to go on a joint municipal bid for garbage,we could do that. If anyone has had chance to look at it, I know you dropped some stuff off to me last week. Are there any questions, because I think you would like to have this advertised for bid for our September meeting right? Councilman Snyder said yes. Solicitor Solymos said I can do that and coordinate it with Dallastown if you want. Councilman Snyder said after looking over Dallastown’s ordinance, again the only thing that I saw that is going to have to be worked out if we go with a joint contract. Since we are bidding this out with the option of no recycling, if there is recycling, if we go with no recycling and they still have recycling, that could be an issue that would need to be worked out. Also the fact
that would have to worked out, the way our contract is, we are one of the few municipalities, which we’ve actually saved money on by paying our own tipping fee.
Dallastown does not do that, its built in with their contract price. Ironically Dallastown
took noticed to that, they really got whacked when it came to the garbage bid because of that. Their bid came in at like $370,000.00 for one year. And you’d think that two years
would have been cheaper, two years is actually was even more expensive and three years was even worse yet. It would have been actually cheaper to go with a one year contract, the reasoning behind that and that was we were always told, because they have to factor what if there is an increase in tipping fee. So, that’s where I came up with this idea,
and I talked it over with York County, and they said it’s a novel idea, novel concept, I met with them a couple times, York City decided to try it out first, they said yep we’ll do it, there are four or five of us that are actually paying our own tipping fees and that takes that out of the equation. The only thing they have to charge us on is collection, then they have to calculate in what they are going to give as far as raises, or the last excuse they gave us was the price of fuel. The price of fuel has been pretty constant for the last year or so. Theoretically you should get a better price now, by going with a two or three year contract versus a one year. We don’t know that yet, but that’s something that will need to be worked out if we go in with Dallastown because Dallastown does not pay their own tipping fees. They got whacked for it, I was surprised that they took a three year contract.
Councilman Allar said you’ve got to sit down a year in advance to start working on this. I talked to Ron Smith, the President of Council and there again get the time together. When its time to renew, but to be compatible to ours so its not an issue. Council takes the course of least resistance. Councilman Snyder said its doable, I’m not saying its not doable. But there’s a couple issue that their contract being different than ours. Other than that they seem to be pretty standard. Solicitor Solymos said yes, they are all pulled out of the same basic guide book. Councilman Snyder said the only other thing I did notice, is that they have twice a week collection. Where we have once a week. The secretary said they have Monday just like us, so that probably would be a good thing. Councilman Allar said I don’t think they have the same large item. Councilman Snyder said that they do have. The secretary said yes, on Thursday. Councilman Snyder said I think its set out with
their recyclables. The secretary said the recyclables are on Monday, large item is on Thursday. Councilman Snyder said so those are the only things I saw that would have to be worked out. In the meantime we can tell you to go ahead, I think you calculated its going to be like a 22 month contract to work out with their three years because they took
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11
a three year contract. So we’ll go with a 22 month contract to end at the same time.
And we’ll see how it works out. We’ll still bid ours with no recycling , with recycling and give us. What was ever decided, was it specified for the rental properties. I think there was some discussion if you wanted to get a bin up there with the rental property.
Solicitor Solymos said one person had requested it. The secretary said it was Henry
Realty. Councilman Snyder asked was that worked out Seth, was an acceptable location found? Councilman Noll said I took some pictures, to look at it. There is an area I think
it would be acceptable, I don’t think anything else is going to work. Councilman Snyder said it’s a matter if there is an acceptable sight, then we can put it in the contract. Where it actually ends up, we can work it out in time. I just need to know what his marching orders are. If there is an acceptable sight. Councilman Noll said its basically at the end of the alley. The backside of the property, the side of Newton. Everything else around the perimeter. Councilman Snyder asked everyone in agreement with that? Join that in for
Henry Realty. Okay, then add in Henry Realty. And we want to make sure that the fire company, because they had an issue with that the last contract that they give the larger tote. I think its George, is it four yards. The secretary said I’m not sure if it specifies it in the contract or addendum. I gave him the addendum, the contract and the letter from Henry Realty. Councilman Snyder said if there is a question on that, if its not specified.
Solicitor Solymos said I got together with Seth on securing temporary and permanent
access easements to examine the pipes under certain properties. We came up with a formatted letter. I wanted to ask you Seth, you suggested that this go out on office stationary. I found if people get letters from a lawyer they get offensive. I would
go with the thinking, convince me why it shouldn’t go out on the stationary of Yoe
Borough. I don’t mind sending it out on my stationary, I’m just concerned, oh my a letter from a lawyer whats going on. Councilman Noll said I composed a letter, it says about it being sent our certified, it says about ten days until it comes back, that would be the timeline. Solicitor Solymos said I think it should be changed until the easement comes back, exactly what we want back, signed easements. If you want to email myself. I don’t think it’s a problem. The secretary asked who signs the letter? Councilman Noll said he would. The secretary said and then when they call, I just get a phone number and email it to you. Councilman Noll said yes, and any questions. I might be able to stop by. Solicitor
Solymos said I can address them to the individual. Councilman Noll said yes you could.
You’ve got that list. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll do that. We’ll just plug in each of their name and address. The secretary said I can send it out. Councilman Noll said I’ll stop by tomorrow.
Solicitor Solymos said the issue with the lady that came to council with PENN DOT. PENN DOT got back to you. Councilman Snyder said yeah, before we get into that.
Councilman Snyder said just a FYI, there is a webinar, electronic communications liability training from PSAB on Wednesday August 18, 2010. Making that known to everybody, because there has been discussion as far as electronic communications.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
Solicitor Solymos said I also signed up for with the bar association, I can report back.
Councilman Snyder said we received this FYI information this municipal liability
newsletter. Solicitor Solymos said it was good to let us know.
Councilman Snyder said as you all know, we did have Ms. Snouffer attend the meeting last month. We did send that letter up to PENN DOT as was requested. Interestingly enough, I was down here at the borough, when PENN DOT showed up, it was the
District Permit man, Mr. Malik. We went out on sight and showed it to him. Now that is where the problem starts, I guess some of this should go into a regular meeting because
there is more of a follow up since I talked to you. I had told Sandy, based on the
conversations I had with Mr. Malik. He said here’s what you’re up against, you put it in writing. He said not going to like what I have to tell you. He said based on engineering principles, the hill, the curve, the slope, the speed of vehicles, he said there is absolutely nothing that can be done short of a half of million dollars work to improve the intersection, basically take out half of the hill, condemn the house at the corner so you
can take out the hill and straighten out the road. He said its not as simple as cutting back some bush to get extra sight distance. We have certain standards that we have to follow.
So he said, while I could say, cut this tree, cut that tree down, move this sign, and you’ll gain twenty feet sight distance. Twenty feet of sight distance is not acceptable. He said
in this area, you would need a minimum of 500 feet sight distance. Therefore, his
recommendation is, its an illegal driveway, shut the driveway down. Now, with that,
I said well understand, that you have at least five properties on the upper side that have
no access. He said absolutely. There is the problem. The minute we come in here, we meaning PENN DOT, we come in here and shut that down, we’re going to in court because we effectively condemned five other properties, because now lost access to
their property. In the twenty years that he’s been doing this, we have never shut down a driveway. But he said understand we’re setting up for liability from PENN DOT’s side.
Because once they say, you have a dangerous driveway, then the question becomes, from a litigious lawyer well why didn’t you shut it down if you knew you had a dangerous
intersection. So he said, his recommendation is, he’s going to go back and see what his boss wants to put into writing. This is the only thing that he put into writing. Now I will tell you, as he was standing there, if the municipality wants to try to adopt a road he said we would not permit the road the way that it is coming out. He said we would entertain the idea of moving the road down I guess it would be north of the stop sign basically where the old railroad property is, take the old railroad property connect it onto Pennsylvania Avenue, make it one way. They would not entertain the opening where it currently sits. He said even if it’s a one way street going in, they would want to get that little extra sight distance, down towards on the other side of that stop sign basically. And I said well, the municipality just can’t come in and take that road over the way it is. Cause he said you could always just open the road up down there and take the existing road where it is, come up. I said no you don’t understand the borough’s standpoint there, the borough is guided by the borough code, the borough code specifically says once a
road has been laid out, opened but not adopted for 21 years, we lose the right to do that.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
That’s one of the first things that Pete looked up when he got on council here, we had that before. So we can’t open it up. Without the consent of 51% of the property owners, and it has to be a petition from them. I mean we can’t just, we can’t give them the legal advice.
51% of the abutting property owners have to come, if its never been adopted, which
is what your problem was, because yours was adopted. Its actually been abandoned,
Railroad Crossing was abandoned in 1899. So it actually was an abandoned road, so he
said he would entertain the fact of opening up the old railroad property. I said, well, please don’t send a letter closing the road. That would create more problems than
what we have. He said, now you have to imagine this PENN DOT talking, he said he is not very sympathetic to the cause, clearly if these people were concerned about safety, instead of putting their parking where they did, they could come right there. Instead of parking in towards the house, they could have came out onto Main Street where they coming out of, where he’s suggesting the road should come. He said clearly if they’re
concerned about safety, they have access off the railroad property off of Water Street.
Where they just put in the nice play area. They could have a driveway there if they
wanted. So he said, its not that, they have no other options. Now we didn’t discuss any of the other property owners. My advice when I talked to Pete, he sent the notice to us because we were the ones requesting the traffic study. I had Sandy send out a letter,
basically saying, here’s our response. If you have any questions get back to me. With the understanding, that we were going to discuss what our potential options were at
tonight’s meeting. The postal service was very astute, she got the letter today. I get a phone call at 3 o’clock this afternoon. I told her, what PENN DOT told me, here’s the options. You can either let this go away, I don’t think PENN DOT will force the issue because it’s a driveway. Or if you want, I will bring it back up to council and we’ll discuss our options. I went over those options with her. She did not like that. I said she said, well, I said alright, all you have to do move one home. Her attitude is condemn the house on the corner and take away the hill. And then she said, she feels the borough should go to those property owners and talk to them nicely, why don’t you keep it trimmed down, because this is a safety issue. I said, absolutely not. I wasn’t sympathetic to the cause. Clearly you do not understand the situation. We looked at the situation, there are within the borough ordinances. They do not have grass exceeding six inches. They’re trees do not extend over the sidewalk. I said you are saying it’s a safety issue. You have to look at the other instance, its not a safety issue if you close up the illegal driveway.
I said we can not go on and negotiate with a property owner, and say, well we’re going to close down your road if you don’t cut down your trees back. I said that’s extortion, I will
not be part of that, the council will not be a part of that. They’re in their rights to have a tree one hundred foot tall if they want as long as its not being a public nuisance. And she said, it is a public nuisance if it’s a safety issue. I said its not a safety issue, because you have an illegal driveway. I said clearly it was pointed out that you have access off the
back of your house. I said you are more than welcome to apply for a driveway permit off
of Water Street, you do not have to continue to use that access point. Councilman Allar said the previous owner did that. Councilman Snyder said yes, so, I told her, here’s your other option, this is still a concern of yours I will bring it up, and council can discuss
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 14
quick claiming the rail road property if the council wants to entertain that option, and opening up the road and making it one way. And her comment to me was, well then
I lose my parking. And she said, then why not take the house that is at the end of the street that is up for sale, the borough buy that, tear it down and make the connecting
street there. I said, you don’t understand, PENN DOT has already said, they will
not accept the entrance where its at, even a one way, it has to be below the stop sign. I said that’s the rail road property. She said so in other words you are telling me, I have no choice in this. I said you have all the choices you want, the choice is yours. Either you pursue or you don’t pursue it, if you pursue it the council limited options. Number one
we’ll go back PENN DOT and we can ask them to shut the road down. I specifically asked them not to take that avenue at this point. Now whether I set the municipality up for any liability in doing that, I don’t think so. Because when does PENN DOT have to listen to us. If PENN DOT wants to. Solicitor Solymos said I almost have to go see it,
because interchanging a driveway and a road and that’s confusing to me. Is it a driveway or is it in fact a road that PENN DOT allowed by osmosis or otherwise encroachment unto their own highway. Councilman Snyder said it use to be a road 100 years ago.
At some point it did get paved, there are sidewalks along it on one side. This has been
an issue ever since I got on council, that is how I got on council back in 1990. Because the person who lived in there, Bookwalter was trying to get that adopted by the borough then. And she didn’t get it adopted then, she quit council and that’s how I got on council back in 1990 from that point on. That was her pet peeve. It is private drive, he said he said its an illegal driveway. Solicitor Solymos said it is not a borough street entering
upon a state highway. Councilman Snyder said it is a private drive, basically it’s a dead road of 150 feet, because it used to be and there are sidewalks along it, that is private property the borough doesn’t maintain, it was abandon in 1899 because it was known as Railroad Crossing. Councilman Noll said so what you’re saying is, its an existing non conformity. Councilman Naylor asked if there is a street sign there? Councilman Snyder said Dana put that there, he put down E. Pennsylvania Avenue. That road, the address
of seven homes on a cul de sac, they have E. Pennsylvania addresses because that is what the post office decided to give it. That is not E. Pennsylvania Avenue. Dana however on his own wisdom that says E. Pennsylvania Avenue, for safety purposes since those homes have E. Pennsylvania address, in the invent you have some from Dallastown or York Township fire department, to respond to an emergency they would want them to know
that is 7. E. Pennsylvania Avenue. I asked Mr. Malik, about the stop sign that’s there, he said do not remove it, it’s the only safety sign that’s there but we’re not the ones that put it up, so don’t remove it. Basically they don’t know what to do with it. But they’re not spending a ½ million dollars because the only way they can fix it, is to do what their engineers say and that is you need a site distance of 500 feet coming down Main Street.
Which is condemn a house and take out half of a hill. Solicitor Solymos asked have there been in this area any major accidents? Councilwoman Coble Tyson said there has been some coming down the hill. Councilman Snyder said I was very nice, I was very adamant there are your choices. I said I will gladly bring it up to council. I have my book here, I wrote in my book, she said well then since my options aren’t the best I will decline, that
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 15
was from a phone conversation today at 3PM. But those are the options we were given by PENN DOT. Now we’re not in any position of shutting any driveway down, that’s PENN DOT’s job to do that. If we want to do anything, they would possibly entertain us to quick claim the rail road property and put a road in there, but it would have to be one way. She told me on a phone conversation she’s will to drop this. Solicitor Solymos said I would suggest in a very nice letter that we discussed this in detail. I don’t leave it open ended, I don’t like her to changing her mind. I think you have to cover yourself. The secretary asked what about the maintenance on that private driveway. Councilman Snyder said we don’t touch it. The secretary said oh yes we do. Councilman Snyder said no officially, I told Dana before, that is not ours to maintain. The secretary said then you need to reiterate the fact that no one will see a borough vehicle on that private driveway.
Councilman Noll said do you think we’ll get additional push back from PENN DOT.
Councilman Snyder said they’ve let it as vague as possible, they’ve acknowledged in writing that its dangerous, that’s where they’ve left it. I asked them, he was willing to
close it. You spend $500,000.00 to fix it, or you close something that shouldn’t be there
in the first place. That was a no brainer for them. They didn’t want to take that route, because they knew that would cause litigation from five other people that you effectively closed down their property. Solicitor Solymos said PENN DOT let them encroach on their road way. Councilman Noll said in your opinion, the signage, the south definitely but what about the north side. Solicitor Solymos said I’ve seen signs all over the place put up by municipalities, put up by private individuals. I don’t think the signage is any indication. Councilman Naylor said in the township a private road is indicated by a different colored sign. We have brown signs for private lanes, all the adopted roads are the blue and white signs that you see. Solicitor Solymos said I’d change the color.
Councilman Noll said we’re then acknowledging that its not one of ours. Councilman Naylor said typically we don’t put up those type of signs for people. Councilman Noll said does it say anything in our ordinance, that says regular signs are this color. The secretary said Dana goes by the Sign Manual. Councilman Noll said whatever they show as private road. Councilman Snyder said I gave surveys to Dana last week of when
the borough incorporated, of how Main Street came down on the other side of the school came up Church Street, came across the rail road area and basically came through her
house. It went straight up through. Then at one time it continued the street up and over and dog legged, just like it would be now, it would be connected to Church Street and
then it 1881 then they put in Water Street and moved it out to where it currently is and then in 1887 is when they moved it out to where Main Street currently is. You can actually see the progression of it. Councilman Noll said should we put language or anything in the current minutes to show where we found and put dates in where it was abandoned, so we’re try. Solicitor Solymos said obviously you have those minutes available, to us forever. We can acknowledge in the minutes, that this road way was abandoned when where and what time. Councilman Snyder said and that’s part of these minutes here. And that’s why originally when I talked to Pete, we were thinking of having an executive session, and its like I already talked to her. Might as well make this
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 16
part of public record at this point, because what I told her, I want as part of
public record, this why council is not taking any further action. She didn’t like.
The secretary said it was abandoned in 1899, it was known as Railroad Crossing.
Councilman Snyder said I’d have to look it up for actual date but its in there as an abandoned road. Solicitor Solymos said you just need to make a reference that its in the
ordinance book for the municipality. I don’t think to put that in. The secretary said I just want to make sure its in right. Councilman Snyder said I’ll just write her a quick letter, its going to be short and sweet. Based on our phone conversation today, after discussing the complexities of the issue with you, I relayed to council that you were dropping your request for council to take further action on this matter. And that confirms what I talked to her about on the phone conversation. Then if she wants to later, she can come back to have this reopened, she now knows what she is up against. PENN DOT is only going to allow us to do one thing. Discussion continued.
Councilman Allar said on East Pennsylvania Pete, for six months we keep on raising to council on trying to get that property. We are all in agreement that the borough’s best interest to take over the property. So what Pete, what do you need from us, for us
to go ahead, rather than keep talking about it. Solicitor Solymos said you’re referring to the old rail road property, quick claim. Councilman Snyder said between the Pennsylvania Avenues. Councilman Noll said it was surveyed. Solicitor Solymos said authorize me to take whatever legal action that is necessary, so the borough can formally acquire. Need a motion. Councilman Snyder said I think you have all the information you need. Discussion continued. Councilman Snyder said I think the new property owner,
I think I talked to the new property owner, someone was talking to me about that property and said they came to find out when they talked to the new property owner that Tim Stough did not quick claim the end part of that property. Councilman Allar said when C. S. Davidson did the survey, it was found that his name was on it for the owner. Councilman Snyder said there is an issue there, I think it was Dana, he was saying that the new property owner is now not maintaining that land. Councilman Allar said that may be true, but what I’m saying is when surveys were done and the deeds checked and so on,
I think the owners got sent to Pete, his name was right on it. Discussion continued. Solicitor Solymos said I’d have to look it up when you are ready to go. I was out there but it was four years. A motion to a quiet title on the area between the Pennsylvania
Avenues for C. S. Davidson to that survey off to Pete so he can start doing whatever he needs to do by Councilman Allar. The motion was seconded by Councilwoman Coble Tyson. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Councilman Snyder said we’ll have the garbage contract.
Councilman Noll said also we have the Benchmark items. This one needs the signature of the solicitor. I don’t know if you want to take this with you look it. The secretary made a copy for the solicitor. It asks for approval as a form of legality. Councilman Noll said I think these are the things you reviewed before. Solicitor Solymos said didn’t I give you
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 17
comments. Councilman Noll said Sandy and I went through and reviewed all the different documents, its basically ready except for this form.
Councilman Snyder said update, on how we stand with what we call the Todd Bowser appeal. Solicitor Solymos said I’m glad you mentioned that, I have a brief and its not done, I haven’t filed it yet. Councilman Snyder said do we have any deadlines. Solicitor Solymos said no deadlines unless its filed.
The secretary said I am reminding you that a bill is due for September.
Mr. Malesker said on the flood impoundment restoration project. A meeting was held on July 16, 2010, YCCD was there, Ron from DEP was there and Seth and Dave and Tom,
were at the meeting also. Eric seemed to be overall pretty happy with the ways things are,
he mentioned that the contractor needs to go in and use erosion control blankets and he went back and forth on what they should do with the area by the spillway and decided
what if they want to keep putting hay there, straw there, if it gets washed out, its acceptable to him, instead of putting the matting everywhere. That was really up to the contractor and they decided they’re just going to come back periodically until the vegetation there is established. It still not established there, they still haven’t filled in some of the erosion control blankets at the top of the hill where the rip rap is. Undermined. Most of it happened the Sunday before last when we had like an inch and half of rain. Got underneath that matting, erosion. I attached to the report, correspondence that has been going back and forth on that. Drew had talked to Jeremy right after that storm, Jeremy had not gotten back to him, so he said even though it was Thursday asked if he had chance to go prepare the E & S plan, because he had to fill him, and he had mentioned that the straw in the lower portion had been washed away again. Here is some correspondence, going back and forth on that. Flyway did get back to us this afternoon, they are going to be out on site Friday morning. So Drew is going to plan on meeting them around 7:30, 8 o’clock. Councilman Allar said I have something Friday morning.
Mr. Malesker said I don’t think its going to take too long. If you have issues to point out.
Councilman Allar said issues were ground cover about the ½ of the brim in the area of the spillway are not coming along. I don’t feel we need to do anything, I think it was said we had some sort of agreement that if there was expensive matting that we would have to pay for it. I disagree. Mr. Malesker said that’s what Jeremy, that’s not what happened, that’s totally on the contractor. Councilman Allar said they have to provide 70% coverage, I don’t care how they do it, that’s in the contract. If it takes another six months or whatever. Mr. Malesker said then we hold that ten thousand dollars. Until its established. Councilman Allar said if that does not happen, its strictly on the contractor.
Councilman Noll said I can stop by, around 7:30AM. Mr. Malesker said I’ll let them.
I did get a call from Jake Romig today. He’s still not real happy with the way things are looking. He said its obviously working great on high flows, he’s still thinks, that those
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
veins could use some touch up. I mentioned that Brad Clubb from Flyway had said
he said at the meeting last time that 95% of the time they have to come back and do adjustments. Discussion continued. Mr. Malesker said we have a performance bond for year if any issues arise, they are the hook to fix them. I mentioned to Jake that they are going to be on site on Friday, Mr. Romig won’t be able to make it. In the event they come back to make adjustments, he would be on site to point things out. Discussion continued.
Councilman Snyder said are there any requirements, on the performance bond, anything that we need to do as a municipality for them not to say, if you had done this it wouldn’t have failed? Councilman Naylor said make sure when they do maintenance that they don’t touch those rock veins. Councilman Snyder said I am worried about the performance bond, if there is an issue, Jake thinking that they might be quite right and they’re saying well we think it is. We have our own engineer saying it looks a lot better, there may be, there may not be, but we have a year to work it out. I just want to take
that caviot out of the equation, so they can’t come back and say, had you not come in here on a monthly basis, this wouldn’t have failed. There is nothing like that in the requirements? Mr. Malesker said no. Councilman Naylor said any time we do maintenance, take pictures. Mr. Malesker said one thing we need to do, is that in the event that they refuse to come back and we have to go after their bond. The bonding company, will need to know, what happened, we had plenty of pictures now.
Where its out, if the flow ends going behind one of the rock veins, or something,
we will be able to document the changes that took place. Discussion continued.
Councilman Noll said I will take the pictures this month. Then Dana can take pictures monthly, document changes that take place, and do monthly report. Taking pictures we are concentrating on the rock vein structures. Monthly reports should start back up.
Discussion continued. Mr. Malesker said the request for the first installment payment was sent in June, they said six to eight weeks until payment. We want Jack Hill to come down from DEP and talk about maintenance responsibilities. Councilman Noll said if we do maintenance, York County Conservation said every time we do maintenance and take anything out, they don’t want us to put it on site because the entire site is considered a flood plain. So what that means that we have to find a contractor with a sealed truck that can go directly from water to the truck to the site. When a vein is being maintained, they want us to run a bypass pump to stop the flow going into that vein, stop the flow and then go to the next vein. Councilman Allar said we can use the veins just like a confer dam.
Mr. Malesker said we would just be pumping from, just close with the bypass. Councilman Allar said I talked to Barry and we could use their pump. Councilman Noll said the only issue that I’ll say is , we knew it was going to be costly but this is going to make a little bit more costly. York County Conservations asked why are you doing this, why are you maintaining it. There not going to fine us from their end point if we don’t.
Are there any ramifications, through the monies we received, through the dam permit as written, if we don’t maintain those dams? Mr. Malesker said not that I can see but something I wanted to discuss with Jack Hill. The permit gives the owner the right to do
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
maintenance without getting an another permit. No where in there, does it say that the owner must do maintenance. Councilman Noll said I am not advocating one way or another, I’m just making everyone aware of what the requirements are things that have been said, within one month period there have been four truck loads of material in
about three weeks out of there. If you start multiplying that out by the year, how many times, ten or twelve times. If you truly maintain this thing, you can easily get $25,000.00 a year just to dig this out the proper way. Councilman Allar said Dana’s numbers are more like $12,000.00. The last I talked to him, he did not find a sealed truck. They have trucks to put mats in there. As far as the non maintenance function, I think it’s a very high risk for the borough both politically and from the regulatory stand point. The surrounding communities that contributed money to this, on the basis from that we wouldn’t have to come back for more money for dredging. I think its going to be an embarrassment.
York Township after all, it is in York Township, they contributed the most amount of money. The county isn’t going to be happy. Their money specifically came out of the county’s allotment of Growing Greener for sediment control. The grant application that we signed, talks about doing maintenance. We asked DEP and Corps of Engineers for permission, they approved the plans. Even if the permits don’t specifically mention the term dredging, we spent close to a million bucks, the last fifty grand was specifically for trapping sediment and then removing it. I don’t see any way, whether its stated or not.
Discussion continued. Councilman Snyder said we need to start working with it and see how it works. If we get a contractor and say we need a self sealing truck, and they want to put mats in there and some of it leaks out, hey we have them under contract. They are the ones under contract. Discussion continued on costs and options for maintenance.
Councilman Allar said when we should meet with Eric Jordan and get something in writing when we are at that point. Mr. Malesker said we’ll probably want some kind of written maintenance plan. Discussion continued. Councilman Noll said I think we should have Fitz and Smith do the first cleaning, have Eric down however you want. How do we need to do this going forward, we don’t have to make a motion every time? Councilman Allar said we do if we are going to spend money. What are we going to do with the fence? If there is a gate its about $2000.00. Councilman Allar said there is probably money from Miller. The secretary said that was going to used for the engineering.
Councilman Snyder said theoretically that was for the wetlands. Councilman Allar said if the Growing Greener doesn’t come through, we can’t do the wetlands. Mr. Malesker said well there is the funds we received from the ambulance club. Councilman Allar said that is our match for the Growing Greener. Councilman Snyder said so theoretically that would free up Representative Miller’s money to be used on the project. We honestly don’t know, lets go with Fitz and Smith and see what issues that we come up with, they may say we need to move the fence, we may need a gate, they may say we need some rock vein up there, when we came in it was too marshy. Councilman Allar said Fitz and Smith doesn’t have a sealed truck. Councilman Snyder said put the burden on them to take it away as indicated. Honestly if we say we have $1700.00 a pop, we can control that. I want to keep our costs at $15,000.00 that is $5000.00 a municipality, guess what, we do that eight times. When we do it I don’t know. Discussion continued. A motion to
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
proceed as discussed on maintenance at the dams and Councilman Allar will contact Dana to go over what council’s discussion was because Mr. Shearer was not present tonight by Councilman Noll. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Mr. Malesker said a second option would be Red Lion still has the silt fence up there, its an approved E & S sight. Councilman Allar said I haven’t negotiated with Red Lion. Councilman Snyder said the sight I was talking about was the one that Jason mentioned over a year ago that was only a mile or a half mile down from where we ended up putting it. It was pre approved, the one Jason was planning on using, but Tom said he had one that he was working out with council.
Jason had one in mind, one that Rexroth was using. Mr. Malesker said I can check with him. Councilman Naylor said the Old Neely farm. Councilman Noll said in the future if there is any way we can off load this, if anyone else, I don’t know if you had time to look into it at all. Mr. Malesker said no, we could have Jake talk to Mike Danko from the Army Corps concerning ownership. Councilman Noll said just to know our options.
Mr. Malesker said onto the wetland mitigation project. While I talked to Jake today,
he did update on that also. Danko has looked at our draft plan, he likes it. He would like us to submit a second, what we called a draft plan with more detail. And if that is acceptable, he will approve that as the final. There won’t be another submission.
Councilman Allar said Danko said he’ll take the draft, in lieu of anything more substantial, to take away that bullet number two in that cease and desist order. We’re real close to getting that into the past. Mr. Malesker said when Jake comes back, we are going to hammer this out, I ask if he is going to be over the $2000.00 he had said services, he said no, it should be in his range. We shouldn’t need any additional monies, it will be a little bit on our part. We should be in good shape. We’ll get something submitted next week. If they can approve that second draft as the final. You no longer have the gun pointed at your head then.
Mr. Malesker said on the Orchard Hills Vista, the engineer asked that it be tabled again
for this meeting. I don’t know if there is anything more. I did forward comments from
York Township’s storm water engineer, JMT. They had some major issues with the design also. We had talked about combining forces and writing a combined letter. Since there is so much redesign, we should just wait. Councilman Noll said we will at some point, there are eight pages now of comments. Discussion continued.
Mr. Malesker said on MS-4, in June the regular reporting period, the report was due in June. That was submitted in addition to the normal MS 4 we do each year. The borough did receive a violation order from EPA for compliance and information request. This report that I have copies, four copies, were submitted last week. It goes through, its an action plan for the borough to be compliant with the MS 4 program. It’s a response to the violations, it should be enough to address all of those. There will be another period next
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 21
June. There is information regarding training, Dana did respond and say he was interested in attending. We are going to be hosting that, Gary Peacock and someone else from WAY put on a half day workshop, so if anyone else besides Dana would like to go to that, its going to be sometime in October. It is helpful to have more than one person trained for the borough. Councilman Noll said I’d be interested. More details will be given. Councilman Snyder said for clarification purposes, the work that was done for the MS 4, will be added in with the MS 4 bill. Mr. Malesker said its added in with the same bill, that bill will be coming out but it includes our normal MS 4 report in addition to the response to the violations. I turned over the original copies to the engineer.
Mr. Malesker said I did pass out the storm water condition assessment last month.
I know Dave looked over it pretty well and he did have some questions. I took a look at those, I will go over those questions now. Councilman Allar said I have some questions as well. Councilman Noll said we could meet some afternoon and go over them.
I’m still in the process of reading over it. In another two or three weeks at four or four fifteen. Mr. Malesker said we also, want to have that inspection meeting with you also, Mike Steely is the manager for the inspectors, I wanted him involved. None of the inspectors report to me. He is the one that can make decisions. Councilman Naylor said I will be resigning by August 31, 2010, I want to be active until that time but it would be good to have the meeting before August 27th. Discussion continued.
Mr. Malesker said I showed on there that the grant application was submitted. I don’t know if you have any questions. I think you looked at it before. Councilman Snyder said I looked over the application. I made contact with DCED to find out with what we needed to do to get our money for the grant. I wanted to start working on that. I forwarded that to Sandy to print out as we need it. We fill out forms to fill out, sent links to them, PDF files, DCED approves an amount, you go to your local bank, you have to pass an ordinance, there are samples, to go into debt for. Shop around at your local bank. From what I looked at, I didn’t review the whole 45 pages. You probably can do that in four months max. DCED needs a thirty day look at. You need the thirty day window pass the ordinance. Its seven documents, Pete shouldn’t have a problem with it. I don’t know if there is state money or state loan. They say shop around local bank. Nothing with bonding. Councilman Allar said you would think state loans, DCED would have them
Councilman Snyder said according to that email, which is why I sent it to you, the treasurer. The secretary said there will need to be an authority. Councilman Snyder said Yoe Borough has to apply and Yoe Borough has to get it. We put them on notice that the authority isn’t going to be set up until after, it’s a maintenance authority. So they know that Yoe Borough and Red Lion Borough is going into debt. We can go to Red Lion and ask to go in jointly. Right in that email, steps we have to follow. Councilman Allar asked Sam, are you saying there are no state loans available? Councilman Snyder said I’m not saying there’s not. I stated we never have done this before, our solicitor has no idea what to do, we have no idea what to do, we’re coming to you, you tell us what to do. She wrote
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
back its very simple, once you file this, you go to your local bank. Sandy has that on file. She didn’t say we have loans available at the state, she didn’t say. Councilman Allar said someone could call the Government Information Center, they are there to do research. Its going to be a lot cheaper for state loans. Councilman Snyder said when I went to Mike Craley from the Sewer Authority, he had given us an idea. They went for like a $350,000.00 loan, they’re payback figure was like $50,000 to $60,000 a year for ten years. For budget purposes, we aren’t going to have to worry about it, its going to be for next year. How do we start paying back that note. Get a handle on what direction we will go.
Mr. Malesker said your question on putting the inlets on a state route. PENN DOT, they take absolutely no responsibility for any drainage issues in the borough. They are even starting to go back and not deal with it in the township. They explained it as, at one time the boroughs had all the money, so PENN DOT said, boroughs you are responsible for all the drainage in the municipality, they would help out the townships. Now of course, the opposite, the townships have all the money, the boroughs don’t have any. But now they are taking out, Windsor Township that had a project with storm water, they would not help with the drainage. Depends when the road is paved, they don’t like to cut it up. But you may have to put down better paving than what is there when you put the paving back.
Councilman Snyder said everyone knows we are finishing up on the Broad Street repairs.
We did get notification from James Holley and Associates that the Sewer Authority is having a special meeting on August 11, they’re going to review the bid to complete the construction before the borough restores the streets. They’ll know more after the August 11th meeting. Councilman Naylor said are they going to proceed on resetting that manhole while they’re doing that work. Addressing that now. Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure which manhole. Councilman Naylor said when you are coming out unto Main
Street, there’s a manhole, and some water valves. Mr. Malesker said the way it is right now, we did get the emergency permit card, but we haven’t had to use it. We don’t need a HOP right now, because we are staying back from the right of way. So I’d say if its anywhere close to Main Street that’s going to put us in the right of way, then we will have all the additional engineering to go through to follow up with a back up HOP so.
Councilman Naylor said I wanted to know what is going to entail. Mr. Malesker said we should meet with Fitz and Smith before they start paving. We talked about, where that
inlet we took out, there was flow coming down, it was bypassing the one downhill because the paving was messed up so it goes around it. So what we had talked about, putting a slope in that area so it goes toward the inlet at the corner there. Councilman Snyder said they are expecting completion time as September 30th. Mr. Malesker said so we’re looking at October 31st to get the temporary top on. We are ready to go over the scope on the paving.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
Councilman Noll said we had some discussion, the letter and some concerns that people had expressed, the letter was redirected, to show more definitely that the spring line that dumps out unto Main Street is ours. Steve wanted to put all the supporting information on that, such as research, photographs, the borough minutes. So we do we do have a more definitive letter. Mr. Malesker asked is that more acceptable? Councilman Noll said I thought it was. Mr. Malesker put his seal on the line with the attachments. I did send a second email that I scanned. Since it was twenty pages. The secretary said I put the new letter on top of the old letter. Did you add anything from the last time? Mr. Malesker said yes there are deeds. Councilman Noll said I wanted to make you aware of that.
Councilman Allar said going to the draft that is going up to Mike Danko on the mitigation. That’s also going to be used, Jake is going to be talking to Miller as to
whether or not the details would be working and be sufficient for his purposes. The township is working on putting two contracts out unto the street. The battle with DEP
and the township, the discussion, as to whether or not they would allow someone to design then put out a contract for construction as opposed to design contract only, one contract. Apparently DEP is putting their foot down. Its going to be a design contract, design built. And that is how they got the grant money. You have the design you also have the permit. Whoever gets the contract, they will do the leg work to get the permit.
Then you have construction. If Danko approves that draft, that is our piece of the contract. Also they are, close to putting out, the stabilization upstream from the basin. Probably be in the area, where the bridge is near Gichner’s before you get to Smith Electrical, its probably going to be upstream from that. It will be several different pieces, they have $125,000.00 that is also going to be design built. We don’t have anything to do with that, but I wanted to make you aware that it is going to be in our neighborhood.
They got a Growing Greener grant. Councilman Allar said I believe that both of them have to used by the end of 2011.
Councilman Snyder said no maintenance report. Did everyone sign the card?
Councilman Noll said we were able to work on the dugouts. Got some money off the materials, close to $300.00 from the original bid. The secretary said the bill is on the bill list.
Councilman Allar asked do we know anything about the Red Lion lawn mower and repairs, talked about? Anything I need to work out with Red Lion? Councilman Snyder said I haven’t heard of anything. Dana won’t be here for the rest of the week, I worked it out with the ambulance, he is your employee, we don’t have any set criteria, use the bereavement process, he is taking vacation time as part of his time off. The secretary said we sent him a bakery and fruit basket from the borough and the ambulance club.
Zoning Officer’s Report Page 24
Councilman Snyder said zoning officer’s report. Two months are in the folder.
Councilman Naylor said July 2010, sent letter at 72-76 S. Main Street, letter sent to 53 N. Church Street on weeds, permit issues on 403 S. Main and 194 W. Broad. 171 S. Main and 230 S. Main for grass. Councilman Snyder asked what is going on with this house on George Street, 37 or something like that. I saw a back hoe in there. What is going on?
Councilman Howett said that is Searle. Councilman Snyder said they are going down in,
I think they are putting in a porch. Looked like they were digging out foundation. If no one else knows what is going on. Councilman Naylor said more complaints on grass and weeds. Councilman Snyder said I saw an email come across either today or yesterday, evidently with the rats at the Gary Smith property. Someone must have contacted Dan Shaw, while he has the weed issue, the rats are not being generated from him, but the actual problem is from the people on the other side of the creek that are throwing
in the creek. He has been made aware of that. Councilman Allar said they have been
seen coming out of that building in the back of the Smith property, you barely can see the building its so over grown. Its more serious than just weeds. Now its an infestation issue.
Councilman Snyder said he is aware of that. The secretary said as far as the garbage in the creek to contact the police because its littering. Discussion continued.
Emergency Mangement Report
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Councilman Snyder said I do have one thing, I do want to say. I’ll bring it up under Mayor’s Report. Just one question, in looking at the spot, where you have proposed for that dumpster, is that the spot you were proposed on having it. Councilman Noll said yes.
Councilman Snyder said when I looked at this picture, is that going to create an issue with this person exiting out or is it set back far enough? Councilman Noll said it will be up in the grass. Councilman Snyder asked who owns this fence here? Councilman Noll said the apartment complex. Councilman Snyder said its not going to be a problem moving the fence. The secretary said someone is going to have to leave Henry Realty know that you did agree for the dumpster. Councilman Noll said I can follow through.
Councilman Snyder said we’ll wait until we see the contract.
Councilman Allar said does anyone know why in last month’s mayor’s report it said that we were to get $10,000.00 for the 2010 snow emergency? The secretary said that was an error, the figure given was for the 100% of the application and was forgotten that we were only to get 75% in reimbursement. So if you take 75% of the $10,000.00 it would be around $7500.00, which we did receive.
Secretary’s Report Page 25
Office will be opened August 10th from 8AM until noon. The office will be closed August 11th.
Free Yard sale is September 4 and 5th.
When I arrived today, we got a letter of yearly maintenance on the traffic signal.
Also they want to make sure, if the markings in the street are displayed. Reminders, do I forwarded this to Milt, I never got one of these before? Councilman Snyder said I’d forward it onto Milt. The secretary if the marks are warned they need to be replaced,
PENN DOT is responsible for center and edge lines, the municipality is responsible for cross walks, limit lines, arrows. I thought Barry took care of the markings. Councilman Snyder said Milt takes care of the inspection. Councilman Howett said I haven’t looked at the cross walks. The secretary asked do you mind checking it out? Councilman Howett said I will. Councilman Snyder said forward the paperwork onto Milt. Maybe he looked for it already.
The secretary asked if anyone sent out invitations for the park dedication. Councilman Noll said not yet. The secretary said I’ll help you. Park dedication is October 10th.
Councilman Noll said the fire department is providing food. The secretary said with the war memorial, would it be good time to set up a table for donations, for information.
Councilman Naylor said I’ll have an article in the newsletter. I have letters for the VFW and the American Legion.
Councilman Snyder reported that the treasurer, received our profit and loss for previous year comparison. Hopefully everyone, you had to look over. We are 100% over from last year for solicitor, he didn’t give us a bill until July. That doesn’t mean we aren’t over budget. We are having trouble with engineering, June to June we are only $509.00 from last year, we raised our budget. We are right on target. We got six months to go, MS 4 is more expensive this year. Point out, some of those differences. Quarterly statements for all the accounts. Its our fiduciary duty to be checking over them, any problems bring it up at the council meeting, to me or to the treasurer.
Councilman Naylor said Ron Crull Field, did we get anywhere with that? Anything in mind? Anything formal? Councilman Snyder said we talked about it, and then we thought about the flag pole. Councilman Naylor said there is no official name, I was just wondering, to take into consideration.
New Business Page 26
Councilman Snyder said I’ll be making sure it will be going out properly to the press.
We were notified by the Windsor Laurel Fire Company #1, that they are hosting the 98th annual Fire Fighter’s Association Convention for the county. As part of their festivities, they are holding their outdoor event on Saturday August 21st at the Dallastown Area High School. They are not holding a parade, what they are holding a motorcade procession.
To get back from the high school to Windsor. That way they don’t have to follow all the state protocol. In doing so they are informing us that the motorcade will pass through Yoe Borough at 25MPH in passing South and North Main Street. We are giving them the right of way. It will be starting at 12:15, it will be leaving the school at noon. Depending on how many trucks, until? They are having all intersections monitored by members of the York County Fire Police Association and York Area Regional Police will follow the motorcade. We are asking Yoe Borough residents been considerate and give the right of way to the motorcade.
Councilman Snyder said we were notified by the York Revolution that they appreciate the efforts of local government employees throughout the county and with York County government in the lead, they are offering a government employee time on September 1, 2010, five dollars a ticket for all government employees, family and friends at the Sovereign Bank Stadium in York it will begin at 6PM the gates will open at 5. If you are interested in tickets contact Ben Steffen at 801-4496 for more information.
Councilman Noll said the YCMMA will be meeting on August 26 at 10:30AM at Yoe Park. It has been budgeted for the food and I will be turning in a receipt.
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder asked if everyone has had an opportunity to look over the bill list.
Additional bills are : Verizon Wireless: $50.31, Kleppers:$4200.00(cameras and DVR),
Gail Koller:$1020.35, Kocman Insurance$375.00. A motion was made by Councilman Howett to pay the bills with the additional bills mentioned. The motion was seconded by Councilman Naylor. All in favor.
Since the codification is taken care of, I will be calling Ken Rotz to set up that appointment.
Resignation of David Naylor
Councilman Naylor said I am presenting the borough with a formal resignation letter effective August 31, 2010. It has been nice experience, I appreciated all your help.
The secretary said I will need your new address. A motion was made by Councilman Noll to accept the resignation of Councilman Naylor. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. In favor: Councilman Snyder and Councilman Allar. Councilman Naylor abstains. Councilman Snyder said let the record reflect there will be an open seat,
Resignation of David Naylor(cont.) Page 27
effective after August 31st, the requirement as set forth in the Borough Code: you must be over the age of eighteen, must be a borough resident for at least one year, must be a registered voter,U.S.citizen, you are a registered Republican, to make an appointment they must be a register Republican. The seat is only to be appointed up to the next municipal election, so it would be decided in a year and half. We will get that out into the press and if anyone knows anyone that meets those requirements.
A motion was made by Councilman Naylor to adjourn the meeting at 10:10PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor.