YOE BOROUGH PG. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on February 2, 2010 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7PM following by the Pledge
of Allegiance.
Council Members in attendance:
Sam Snyder
Seth Noll
Barry Myers
Tom Allar
George Howett
David Naylor
Wendy Coble-Tyson
Others in attendance:
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Steve Malesker, Engineer
Connie Crull, Tax Collector
Rich Snyder, Representative from the Dallastown Cougars
Minutes
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to accepted the minutes as presented from the January 4, 2010 meeting. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Visitors
Councilman Snyder said first on the agenda, Ms. Crull, our tax collector. This is my
annual report, I have already given you copies of the delinquencies and the copies
of the exonerations. I billed 644 per capita/occupation taxes, of the per capita 450
were paid and 140 for the delinquent collector and 54 for exonerations. On the
occupation, 418 paid, 139 were delinquent collector, 54 for exonerations, 33 for
exemptions. I liened 24 properties here in the borough. Nineteen were for borough
taxes for a total of $5529.73. And the total remitted to the borough in 2009 was
$98,384.15. I already have mailed to the delinquent collector.
Mrs. Crull said with the memorial that I set up for Ronald Crull. I have decided
on a flag pole for here at the borough building since we do not have one. And
Visitors(cont.) Page 2
Dana’s been doing some research for me, he understands this a lot better than I do,
so I’m going to pass this on to Dana. Mr. Shearer said what we’re looking at is
a 25 foot flag pole, it’s a medium commercial grade, its not high dollar commercial
grade. But its not a cheesy home owner model. It would be $450.00 and an addition
of $61.50 for an eagle on top. Connie and I both agree that eagles look a lot better
than a ball on top. And a solar light also for $99.95 and I’d like to try a solar light
first, that way we don’t have to get into any expenses to get the electrician and have
another light out there. I found one online that seems to get pretty favorable
reviews, actually mounted right unto the flag pole. That would bring the total to
$611.45. What I was talking to Connie about was, she’s willing to cover whatever
extra expense we have. I don’t know how much we had in that memorial. If that
is acceptable to everybody, then we’ll get this purchased and when the spring thaw
is here, get this installed. Looking at, out in that area out there, because the telephone
lines are coming in, kind of messes me up with having that close to the building, have
it more out in the open area, over there. Do a little landscape around the edge and
bottom. Mrs.Crull said I don’t remember what Sandy told me is in the memorial, but I will pay the rest of it. When you get a final cost. Councilman Snyder said I personally
think it’s a great idea. Very appropriate. We need a flagpole should have had a flag pole
a long time ago. I think of Ronnie, I think that would be an excellent idea. Mr. Shearer
said for height, get the twenty five footer, going to look at U. S. Flag, wasn’t planning
on running the state flag also, I don’t know if that, if anyone has different feelings on
that but I was good at just running the U. S. Flag. Councilwoman Coble-Tyson asked
where are you going to put that. Mr. Shearer said out here on the grass area. Councilman
Snyder said I don’t think we would need much more than twenty five foot, we’re a pretty
short building anyways. Councilman Noll asked do we need a motion on that. Councilman Snyder said probably should, that way we can get the ball rolling and.
Councilman Naylor said do we need a little plaque or anything. Mrs. Crull said I will
take care of that, I will take care of that sometime later on. You know how much Ronnie
loved this borough. A motion was made by Councilman Noll to go ahead and buy a pole
with an eagle and the light, take whatever is left in the Memorial Fund and put towards
it. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
motion carried. Mrs. Crull said thank you. Councilman Snyder said thank you.
Councilman Noll said Sam, I have a question for Connie real quick. We had met with
economic development group and one of the things that we need to look at to further
what we are doing with economic development is, do an audit to know where property
is, commercial versus residential. Would that be something you could supply us with,
with the tax records. Mrs. Crull said actually commercial, commercial is this side of
George Street. Councilman Noll said we’re trying to identify where the properties are
than. Mrs. Crull said the individual that are commercial? Councilman Noll said some
do fall outside, what we’re trying to see is what the patterns, if we’re looking at the
possibility of rezoning, with this comp plan coming out, maybe it makes sense to jockey
Visitors(cont.) Page 3
some things around. We would like to know where those lands are, so we can make
better suggestions in the comp plan. Councilman Allar asked do you have the delinquents
and foreclosures of the borough. Mrs. Crull said I couldn’t tell you the foreclosures,
that I have nothing to do with. But the delinquents you have a copy of what was turned
into the tax bureau for taxes. There was a total of nineteen for Yoe Borough alone and
a total of 24 properties for borough, county and school taxes. Foreclosures I don’t know
anything about that, the notice are given for sheriff’s sale. Councilman Allar said I think
we need to know for any of the three taxes, if you have. Councilman Noll said you can
get them from the tax map, its not that big of deal. Mrs. Crull asked how soon would you
need them? Councilman Noll said probably within the next month. Mrs. Crull said I am
leaving for Florida. Councilman Noll asked when will you be back. Mrs. Crull said that’s
debatable. Hopefully I will have you a list, although all the businesses some I don’t know
about. Councilman Noll said with what you have, will it have the tax map parcel number.
Mrs. Crull said I can give you that, the tax map parcel number. Councilman Noll said
that would probably be the easiest, then run it against the map, then highlight, the colored
map. Mrs. Crull said some people their business is very quiet. Councilman Noll said
the ones that are public knowledge. If you have time, before you leave, just give them
to Sandy and I’ll stop up. If not. Councilman Allar asked on the delinquent taxes, as
far as this past year, do you have an idea of the percentage difference from last year.
Mrs. Crull asked on real estate? Councilman Allar said on the real estate taxes. Mrs.
Crull said I think its about the same, maybe 2 more. Some were overlooked. Not that many. Councilman Allar said you are saying a couple more than last year. Mrs. Crull
said I think last year I may have twenty two. Councilman Allar said you get a copy.
Mrs. Crull said the real estate went to the delinquent tax collector. Councilman Noll
said let’s just note the properties, and when you get back, we’ll sit down, we’ll know
some of those people paid. Mrs. Crull said I never know when its paid, the tax money
comes directly to the borough. I don’t know anything about that. Mrs. Crull said what
goes to the tax claim, is borough, county and school. Councilman Allar said we don’t
have to know which one. Mrs. Crull said no. Councilman Snyder said that’s why
there was a difference between, she said nineteen just for borough and 24 total for
the school, county. Councilman Snyder said more delinquent with school tax.
Any other questions for the tax collector. If not then we’re accept the list as presented,
and of course we will leave it here for everyone to peruse and make a motion to accept
the exonerations, exemptions, etc. at next month’s meeting.
Councilman Snyder said next on the agenda, we have the representative from the
Dallastown Cougars, Rich Snyder. Mr. Snyder said I have a letter here for Ms.
Sterner, I don’t know if he mailed you a copy. I apologize I forgot my reading
glasses, I’d read it to you. The secretary asked do you want me to read it? Mr.
Snyder said if you like and then. The secretary read the following: The Dallastown
Cougar Baseball Organization would like to thank Yoe Borough for the years of
support you have given us in terms of field usage at the park. The value can’t
be put on the time spent there, but the local kids playing the game, they’ve all
Visitors(cont.) Page 4
grown to love. We would like again to use the field again for the upcoming
2010 season. Our league runs from Monday March 29th through Sunday July
18th. Our times for weeknights would be from 5PM until dusk, Saturdays
from 8AM till dusk and Sundays from 1PM until dusk. Should there be any
preplanned outings at the park, we would be glad to block these dates from
our schedule to avoid any conflict. As in years past, we will be spending a
Saturday in late March, to perform general field maintenance, a maintain
one of our lockable Rubbermaid storage containers at the field to house the
bases, line strippers, lime and other small tools for the field upkeep and basic
maintenance. If there is an improvement project that you would like to have
done please let me know and I will supply the manpower to make it happen.
If there are any other requirements that we need to fulfill please let me know
and we will do our best to have them satisfied. Thank you for your time and
consideration for the use of the park baseball field to help promote our program.
On another note, the Dallastown Fall Baseball program has been merged into
the Dallastown Cougar Organization. I will most likely be contacting you
mid summer to review usage for the fall season. If there’s anything in particular
that I need to do for that session, please let me know. Thanks again. Signed,
Michael Noll, Baseball Field Scheduler. Councilman Snyder said okay, comments,
questions. Councilman Noll said do we walk to talk about the project? Councilman
Snyder said might as well. Councilman Noll said we had looked at, we really
appreciate the projects, it helps everybody to keep the field up, and what we
were looking at least for the group that will be up there, in spring and summer.
I took some pictures of the dug out, Dana had gone up and looked at. Two things
that we were hoping you could take a look at with your volunteers and need to
talk about maybe some minor materials. On the roof, itself there are some areas,
where the metal is still good, but when a repair was made at one point, they put
the metal right over the top of the old roof. So we would what we would hopefully
be able to do, it pull the metal off of both of them. Strip off the bad wood and
shingle and replace it with metal right back down on. Again, to keep the dugouts
in good use, for your organization. The other thing that we noticed, it’s a health
and safety thing, the dugouts just have basically a loose cinder block right under
the middle of the bench. So we’d like, again for safety reasons, for your use
group and anyone else, try to get that fixed in both of the dugouts. Mr. Shearer
said when talking about the roof, the far dugout over there, possibly raising
that one up. Did you ever hit your head on it? Mr. Snyder said years ago.
Mr. Shearer said its kind of rough and both of them could be elevated a little bit.
Might be able to do that with framing or laying another row of block. Probably
could elevate it a little bit, I whacked my head a couple times. Like I said and getting
the roofs repaired. Councilman Noll asked would that be something that could be
done? Mr. Snyder said I think, I’ll report back to Commissioner Noll and Davey
Carr. Anything that is sweat equity, I can almost 99% guarantee. Councilman
Visitors(cont.) Page 5
Noll said it helps to keep the park in good shape, helps the program. Especially
to grade and level block. Councilman Snyder said one other thing that we
were discussing that I wanted to run by you because this is something that
we are going to need to preplan and see if your organization can handle it.
Dana noticed that the fencing is starting to get kind of rough. Mr. Snyder said
I noticed a spot, I still play in the Old Timers league, we practice Sunday
afternoons, a bunch of old men out there out there acting like kids. I noticed
along the left field line, there is buckled formed. Mr. Shearer said that’s
where that tree fell down. Mr. Snyder said is that where the tree fell down.
Councilman Snyder said what we were contemplating because we have to plan
for this ourselves. If you think its doable on your end, we would look at trying
to replace that fence, with new fencing, if you have the manpower to do it. And
then take the old fencing that is salvageable, we would locate the Crull property
that’s always been a contention with parking and we would run that old fencing
up around there as a barrier. That would take care of the parking issue as well.
We don’t have the kind of funds this year to replace that fencing. But if you
think its doable for manpower, council will then can say, we can take so much
money for this year, plan so much for next year, that becomes a next year
project that we can plan for. So if you could report back to us, and say yeah
I think that is doable, or not. Again we would supply the materials and everything,
we need the manpower to do that type of a project. Mr. Shearer said along with
the fencing, looking at installing a safety cap on top. Mr. Snyder said are you talking
about the back stop. Mr. Shearer said out here where the four foot high fence, the
yellow. So the kids don’t catch themselves. I don’t know if you have that anywhere
else. Mr. Snyder said off the top of my head, I’m not really sure. I know we did
quite a few backstops of public fields we use. Somewhat similar to here,you have
that slope to try to catch some of the foul balls. The fields that I was at last year,
I don’t know if we have that, we can look into that. Councilman Snyder said but
then as a temporary fix for this year, because it seems to crop up every year, so
we might as well be proactive, if you could just run a string line down that property
line, put some stakes just wrap string, continue to wrap stakes, every twenty foot,
just run a string line a visible barrier, and just maybe in between the stakes tie
some orange ribbon or something so the people won’t be running across and going
across the Crull property. Mr. Snyder asked how do you feel about snow fence?
We may have some extra snow fence, which we use to line the outfield of the
field in Dallastown, Cougar field, set it up for the outfield. We may have extra of
that. Councilman Snyder said whatever is convenient for you for this year, since
you know we are looking at putting up that old fencing for next year anyways. Its
whatever is going to work for you, that way we try to take care of this parking
problem ahead of time. Mrs. Crull said and dog walking. Councilman Snyder said
if the fence is up, that should take care of any dogs. The secretary asked if you
are going to take care of the portable toilet rentals again. Mr. Snyder said its my
Visitors(cont.) Page 6
understanding yes. The secretary said I will be sending Mike another letter, confirmation
that a certificate of insurance and since you are starting on the 29th, I don’t need it dated
April 1st, I need it dated from the 29th. As soon as you hit the field, I need it from the
time you use the field, please. Councilman Snyder asked anything else? Councilman Naylor asked is it common at any other fields for any kinds of advertisements from
local businesses or anything? Mr. Snyder said we haven’t in the past, this year is going
to be the first year, our last meeting on Sunday evening. The people that are sponsoring,
the team, along with certain age, the little kids, the T-ball kids and I think they’re called
the minor A and the minor B, and their uniform has the sponsor company name on the
front of it. But again, we’re are looking at putting up these new fences at the Cougar
field, we were looking at putting up signs up of these sponsors of the teams as well. That
would be the only field that I know of. I don’t think we’ve ever done it before, this is the
first year we’ve talked about that. Councilman Naylor said maybe you talk about that for
the future. Mr. Snyder said certainly. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of the sponsors, one is Buchmeyer Pools. I think Joe Miller, the service center he sponsored one. Councilman Naylor said they pay for the advertisement? Mr. Snyder said I think
when they sponsor a team I think they get a tax deductible, I’m not sure if it’s a hundred
dollars, but they give Cougars a hundred dollars, they get a tax write off. Dave makes
sure they get their names on the uniforms of the kids. They get a plaque at the end of the
year, showing our appreciation. This year is the first year, of having a sign up of sponsors
of teams.Councilman Snyder asked anything else? Thanks for coming tonight. Any other
visitors that would like to recognized if not?
Solicitor’s Report
Councilman Snyder said Pete’s not here tonight.
Chronister Councilman Snyder said we met Pete, myself and Tom this afternoon.
Matter The Chronister case is scheduled now for 2PM tomorrow afternoon so
we will going in to try to come to hearing before the board of arbitration.
Bowser Councilman Snyder said he also said that next week he will be filing the
Brief brief on the Todd Bowser case. And that’s all he really had for the
Solicitor’s.
Councilman Snyder asked is there anything else that I need to take back to him?
Easement Councilman Noll said I just want to make mention during the Solicitor’s
report, we should have an easement agreement, temporary easement,
that we should be able to make copies of now. Pete said if you do
have to use that, just have Sandy make copy of that, but that way
you don’t have to wait, and expense money each time. It’s a blank
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 7
thing you can use each time. Councilman Coble-Tyson said about
the signatures, are they the originals. Councilman Noll said its just
a blank form, you get the property owner and get it notarized.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for the solicitor, if not our
agenda is really going to be messed up tonight, so just bare with
me here. Try to get our maintenance crew back out of the street
because of inclement weather, I’d like move the Maintenance
Report up next.
Maintenance Report
Line Mr. Shearer said some of this is going to be engineer’s anyway.
at The line at 147 S. Main Street, the Johnson property where we did
147 S. Main the repair to try to get a better camera view of that. Dallastown
Street came down and try to re-camera that line. We actually did not make
it as far as the repaired joint, due to the terra cotta pipe that is in
there has another blockage. I told Steve at this time, I don’t think
we should be digging anymore in the yard, preparing anymore of
that pipe. We are pretty sure it’s a spring. We know from the
water authority and stuff, that their sump pump isn’t pumping
this out. I let it up to him to get in contact with PENN DOT, see
where we go from there. Its my understanding we’re looking
a letter from them putting us on notice. Mr. Malesker said that’s
what Chris Leiphart said, when I talked to him, I said we can’t
go any further on 147. He said well, we may have the borough fix
that, I said I don’t see how you can force the borough to fix a
collapse on someone’s property. He said well, if that’s what needs
to be done to get you to tap the line, you may have to do that. I know
he had noticed the additional water that’s coming down here, and
said he was going to talk to his boss. They were going to see if
they are going to put the borough on notice for the discharge on
Main Street. When I talked to him, that was several weeks ago.
We haven’t gotten the notice yet, so. Councilman Snyder said
we poke that bear. Councilman Allar said Steve, when you and I
talked you said, explained to Leiphart, that we are going for the
H20 grant and possibly fixing it at that time. You said, Leiphart
seemed satisfied. Mr. Malesker said well, the letter would come
from central office and I guess reports to Steve Grasetti, who is
the York County Maintenance Manager and then I don’t know
who Steve Grasetti reports to. But initially when this all came about
they wanted to keep this local so its very possible if they keep it local
then you don’t have to deal with central office, we never get that letter
unless something happens on Main Street because of the water. So
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 8
hopefully that will buy us some time to deal with this. Councilman
Allar said do we feel now or maybe later, to put our strategy in
writing, not that like we’re ignoring them, if they feel we’re ignoring
them, they’ll get upset. We do have a plan, its just we don’t have
the meeting with the specialist. Mr. Malesker said we do have a plan
but we still haven’t found the source of the water. There’s still
additional investigation that needs to be done, then that will help
to determine the scope of what that plan is going to be, where we
are going to tie into the storm sewer. Councilman Allar said they
know don’t have any details, I just don’t want them to feel that we
are ignoring the situation. Mr. Malesker said he knows that. Councilman
Allar said that way guarantees some action on our part. Mr. Malesker
said he knows that we have tried to camera that other. Councilman Allar
said Leiphart’s boss may not. Mr. Malesker said I think Chris explains
it pretty well to him so. Councilman Snyder said in all reality, what does
a letter from PENN DOT do. Mr. Malesker said well, it would probably
be something similar where they’re going to give the borough thirty days,
to correct the problem. I don’t know what. Councilman Snyder said I was
going to say, what can possibly do except try to withhold our liquid
fuels money, I mean I don’t see how they could cite us for something that
is waters of the Commonwealth. Mr. Malesker said and that’s what I told
him. Councilman Snyder said I don’t see what they can possibly threaten
us with, to put us on notice. To be totally honest if they put us on notice
because you had said, they were a little hesitant to give us occupancy
permits to this major work anyways, because they just put in the road so,
if they give us notice, that just gives us more power to say this is why
we need your highway occupancy. Personally I’m not too scared of notice
from PENN DOT. Mr. Malesker said the part of that is we’re trying.
Councilman Snyder said we’re being proactive. Mr. Malesker said we’re
not just sitting there hoping the problem goes away on its own.
Councilman Myers asked so you tell me wherever there is water coming
off of someone else’s property, they don’t, they just send a letter to the
municipality say you have to deal with the problem, on a state road.
Mr. Malesker said initially the letter went to the property owner.
Councilman Myers said right. Mr. Malesker said now we know of
more there’s additional water coming and then as far as responsibility,
they may say well its not the property owner’s responsibility it’s the
borough’s responsibility. Councilman Myers said they’re the judge I
guess they can. Mr. Malesker said well I mean. Councilman Allar said
Barry, its probably they’re way of not dealing with the property owner,
let the borough be the meany. Councilman Myers said exactly, that’s
what irritates me about PENN DOT, pass the buck. It happens all the
time. Mr. Shearer said also it seems to me that the authority over the
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 9
water is the state. Councilman Myers said right, when you want a red
light they always tell you can or you can’t. Mr. Shearer said their spring
water is waterways of the Commonwealth. Councilman Snyder said
that can always be our response send your enforcement notice to DEP.
Councilman Myers said it just irritates me that PENN DOT passes the
buck, hassle with them at work, pass the buck. Mr. Malesker said so
we still have issues where they’re still trying to get the camera up,
up higher to try to see where that is. I know they found a blockage in
the outlet, so they weren’t able to go more than three to four inches,
where that pipe goes into that inlet by your house. Mr. Shearer said to
bring everybody up to speed there, the inlet right in front of 171 which
would be the old Ducharme house. The white double house where the
swale comes between the two houses. That inlet right there, there’s
a pipe in the south end wall of that inlet. We believe to be where the
horse trough line that comes down through comes into the system.
So we think. We tried to camera that, and its completely blocked at
the end. The other week just to see, if we could see anything, because
of the way, it did not appear that there was any water coming out of
there at all, in that inlet. We took a dye pack and ran it down into the
hole in Sam’s basement and I did not find any traces of blue dye. So,
I do not know where the water that was in that line is going. And
whatever excess water is making its way to the inlet, that’s what
Sam’s neighbor is pumping out. Just we just got his easement back,
his neighbor, the Boltzs, 187, just we just got that back yesterday. We’re
going to try to get a camera crew in there to at least camera down that
line so we can try to get an idea where this goes. Councilman Naylor
asked is there any way to clear that blockage? Mr. Shearer said that’s
the other thing, we’re looking at, me and Steve were talking about,
what we can do there. I can probably get Dallastown exerciser to
clean that out. I’m getting to the point where, we keep bringing
Dallastown to do these things but we’re not making any progress. Its
getting kind of frustrating to me, and I’m sure its getting frustrating
to them. Because I’m calling in all these favors and we’re really not
making any head way here. So, we may incur some expense, or look
at alternate sources as to what we can do to try to clean that out. It
may come down to putting a hose to the fire hydrant down there and
blast it out. If I do that, I have wait for a little more warmer weather,
as not to create a situation out on the street. I don’t want to cause
any more problems on the roadway, than we already have. Councilman
Naylor asked can you tell what the blockage consisted of? Mr. Shearer
said there were some pieces of concrete in there, on the camera it looked
like there was a lot of dirt, hard packed dirt and stuff. Tried taking a
crow bar in and working at that, it was packed full. Councilman Myers
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 10
asked and that was terra cotta pipe? Mr. Shearer said that actually is
like four inch piece of plastic but we don’t know if that’s tied into
that horse trough one, maybe its just plastic in the end wall of the inlet
and its terra cotta. Councilman Snyder said now its interesting, to
bring everybody back up to speed here, when he’s saying its packed
full of dirt. You may recall Barry, maybe even you Tom, going back
aways, when the Ducharmes lived there, 171, there was, the gas company
came in and punched in a new gas line from across the street about
within six months maybe, they were witnessing a depression, a sinkhole,
in their front yard. At that time, we had Jeff Shue, he came in there and
took a stick, and this was like a yard stick, and measured underneath
their sidewalk. Because that was when Scott Floyd was still parking
on the sidewalk with his big truck. And Ducharmes were afraid that
he was going to collapse the sidewalk. He poked a stick in there and
found like a 12 by 15 foot depression, and he contacted the gas company
at that time and they said, oh yeah when we were running this new line,
we punched through a terra cotta pipe, they didn’t know what that was
from. And we brought at that time, I said well there’s this line going
through there somewhere and I bet that’s what they hit. The gas company
came, filled in that hole, they’re the ones that replaced that little section
of sidewalk. So that’s where that depression, that’s where that came
from, now whether nothing was ever said about them fixing the terra
cotta pipe. Because everybody said, its not part of our system.
Councilman Snyder said I’m there saying yeah but there is water running
through there, but no one fixed the pipe. More than likely if this thing
is clogged like Dana is saying, if it is all connected that’s probably why
that’s full of, you may be surprised what other. Councilman Naylor asked
how long ago was that, the gas line installation? Councilman Snyder said
oh at least, if that’s not what from what was up here, we’re talking the
Ducharmes moved in 2000. I think Jeff came on in 1997, like, we’re
talking 1998, 1999 time frame at least. So. That’s just to give everybody
some background on some of this, that may have been causing this,
since he said this thing is clogged up with all that packed dirt and stuff.
That’s a possibility why, if indeed this is all one system. Councilman
Myers said that pipe that we think is there or was there, section, that
just went to the trough. Is that what you’re saying. Mr. Shearer said this
is the line that’s coming to pipe the spring from up above Sam’s house,
flow’s through Sam’s neighbors at 187, people on the upper side toward
Philadelphia, it flows in front of Sam’s house and according to what was
in the minutes, the horse trough that was in the area in front of
Ducharme’s house so somewhere when that was removed and the street
got paved that was when this pipe was put in so, beyond where it went
from the horse trough, pretty much is speculation at this point. I would
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 11
have to think you know, that it would be in that inlet, I don’t know
what else would be piped into that. Councilman Myers said and that’s
where you have that the minutes said the borough put those pipes in
and put all those houses together. Mr. Shearer said we’re still playing
public works guessing game, that’s pretty much. still trying to figure
out, on an archeological dig here. Who did what where. Mr. Malesker
so we definitely need some more camera work, its gotta be something
where someone can dedicate a day to it, not to be there just an hour.
Councilman Snyder said one thing, and I will say this, you’ve got
to watch how many favors you burn from Dallastown with this. And
where Steve was going with dedicating a camera, I don’t know if council,
cause I have to watch what I say, because of my involvement on the
other end but if council wants dedicate some funds, some liquid fuels
or something, only because I did receive a phone call from Connie.
This last time when Joe went back up, he was not a happy camper, there
again dedicated a whole another morning in Yoe Borough, didn’t get
anywhere and that’s been going even since this at 147. We never seem
to get anywhere. I don’t know if they want to say, compensate somehow
for this. Everyone be aware, we’re starting to wear that real thin. There
was other issues involved, but, it was very nice, but we would like to
work with Yoe Borough but the borough is making it very difficult.
We’re wearing them thin. We’re still on their good side but. Mr. Shearer
said wouldn’t this, we’re kind of doing this to solve a problem, we’re also
doing this project that Steve has going with the survey of the system,
doesn’t mess here, intermingle. Mr. Malesker said yeah, what I was going
to suggest is, as long as PENN DOT gives us the time. We have to do
some camera work for these storm sewers. Now obviously, these pipes
aren’t what we consider storm sewers and wouldn’t be part of the scope
for that study, but we’re going to be sending out RFP’s for someone to
do that camera work so we can certainly include that additional stuff in
there at the same time, and that way we could get a better price at doing
that work because someone is already mobilized for the work we’re doing.
I did call, Tri State Grouting, they do the sewer maintenance work in
Dallastown, they’re not going to be in Dallastown, until April or May.
They said for them to come down it would be $2500.00 each day.
Councilman Myers said why don’t we put the additional pipes in down
to the stupid thing, God we’re going to spend $2500.00 for a t. v. camera
that doesn’t make any sense. Mr. Malesker said well , but see they come
from Delaware, so he said, normally it wouldn’t be that expensive, if
I was in Dallastown doing sewer work, it would be a lot less than that,
he said as an example if you want me to come down next week for
a day, said he clean there, there’s all the mobilization cost in there.
Councilman Myers said why can’t we just get Dallastown, pay them.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 12
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I just was thinking. Councilman
Myers said if we’re going to give the money, lets give it to someone.
Mr. Malesker said York Township is an option too. Councilman Allar
said Bob Miller has offered his assistance. Councilman Naylor said
we’re going to be paying someone the way it sounds. Councilman
Myers said regardless what we do I think we should give Dallastown
some money towards whatever, we should do that, that’s only
neighborly. I’m not in favor of spending a lot of money for cameraing.
Mr. Malesker said the ultimate goal is to try to find the source of this
and try. Councilman Myers said I can’t argue that point, you’re right.
Mr. Malesker said and try tie into the storm sewer somewhere and
that would alleviate 147, the issue there, and at Sam’s. There are
ways that you could chemical grout those lines shut, and then see
what happens, but that’s going to just end up in someone’s basement.
Councilman Allar said those pipes that need replacing are they
borough’s pipes or another pipe. Councilman Naylor said we are
waiting an awful long time to find out whose pipe it is, in the meantime
those pipes and everything else incurs. Councilman Myer asked what
happens if we just put repair our storm water up through there, and
its no different than Met Ed or the gas company, you’re responsible
to get it out, we let them hook into our storm drain that’s fine. I don’t
know its all the borough’s responsibility to do that. Councilman
Allar said there’s five or six homes up there. Councilman Noll asked
how soon are you planning on doing this work, something like this
could drag on for three or four months. Mr. Malesker said the RFP
would go out in another two weeks. That’s a request for proposal
from whomever does video in the area. Councilman Noll said until
it comes back, are we looking at six weeks? Mr. Malesker said yeah,
we need to have everything done, grant submittal is in April so we
need to have that done, we basically turn it around once we have the
fees. We give them just a few days to get it back, we choose
somebody. We don’t have to go through a public meeting and all
of that, they’re going to be a sub to us and we award it right a way.
And start work. Councilman Allar said they’re just going to camera,
they’re not going to break through an obstruction. Mr. Malesker said
no. If they run into something and they’re stuck unless the company
has a cleaner, some of them the camera could be mounted on a truck
that has an air knife and vacuum. Councilman Naylor asked is there
a company that we could call and get this done? Councilman Noll
asked how many days of work do you think they’re have to do to
get this done, one day, two? Mr. Malesker said at this point I’m not
sure because we don’t have everything mapped out yet. Councilman
Noll said if you would have to do that, I would do that first, and
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 13
that way if we run into a problem, there going to do the rest. Mr.
Malesker said yeah. Councilman Myer said I want to get it straight,
before the property owners get into. I also want to make sure that its
not ours, because what we do. Councilman Noll said the thing is, until
we know what it looks like, we have no clue. Councilman Coble Tyson
asked when we know something, what kind of an obligation do we
not have, do we not have an obligation to give some kind of a notice to
the property owners if there is infrastructure on their original properties
that maybe they weren’t aware of that they are going to incur this
expense? I understand that this is the history in Yoe Borough, I know
about you know. Councilman Noll said find out what the problem is,
we’ll have to do it, I mean. Councilman Allar said Steve, correct me
if I’m wrong, you’re going to identify what is the borough system,
correct? Mr. Malesker said yes. Councilman Allar said once we know
what the borough system is, then we’re going to kind of know what the
borough system is not. That is going to tell us a lot. Mr. Malesker said
but yet, that part, I mean is separate from this other drainage issue, you
certainly can’t wait and say that storm water, you know that its spring
water not a storm water system. Councilman Allar said it’s not to say
that its part of an upgrade of the whole system, we don’t take of certain
drainage issues, we don’t, there are areas in town that don’t have a
storm water system, maybe we’re going to be putting it in. Mr. Malesker
said right. Councilman Allar said those are all things down the road.
But before we clean it through and get involved with the possibly the
homegrown systems, step one to me is, identify what is the borough
system, cut and dry, map it out. And then see what that leaves us.
Councilman Noll asked I know Sam is a property owner, Sam if we
do this as part of the RFP, is that too long? We’re talking six weeks
before we find it. Councilman Snyder said not too long as me as property
owner Sam, that’s not too long, right now my fix was going to the
neighbor getting him to put in a sump pump and piping it out with that
pipe so I’m not getting any more water in my basement. My only concern
was if he decides to turn off the sump pump or whatever, I’m sort
of at his mercy which is why I’ve been maintaining that line out there,
making sure all that water is going out. Mr. Malesker said even up
above you, I’ll do what I can. Councilman Snyder said oh yeah, this
whole thing was meant to be a public watering trough back in 1912.
And that’s what they were trying to identify, find the head of the
spring, and then shoot it directly into the storm water system at
that point. This is one pipe that’s connected to four properties.
Councilman Noll said I agree you need to do it with diligence to
make sure you identify everything properly, as long as everybody
feels we have time, pick it up as part of the RFP request price.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 14
And see how it goes. Mr. Malesker said and if that doesn’t work,
if they run into blockage then, there’s other blockage, there’s other
options, but they’d be more expensive, sub surface investigation where
you could use sonar or radio waves to find the outlets, you could
have someone drill a well to try to do something and have a horizontal
bore from the well that ties directly into the storm water. You can
try to get close to where the source is. Councilman Noll said
that’s expensive. Councilman Naylor said if there is flow in that
pipe to your place, that can’t be any blockage from your place up
that way, we know we are okay that way, the problem is downstream.
Councilman Snyder said when he found that blockage in that pipe,
I thought that is where it stemmed from. Councilman Naylor said
that’s what I’m saying, can’t we just clear that blockage, make an
attempt to clear that blockage. Councilman Snyder said well that is
where Joe was getting said, the way he would do it, he would start
right there, you know you have a problem clean it out and my
contention then, because I’m putting on council hat, well wait a
minute why do we want to spend a couple thousand dollars to dig
this up and repair this when the ultimate fix according to Steve is,
lets find the head and divert all the water out of it, at that point you’re
going to eliminate this pipe altogether. So if you’re going to do, sort
of like we did down at your place. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said
why expend the money for this part, when we are going to complete
drop the whole thing and reroute it. Mr. Malesker said why start
fixing something now when no investigation has been done. We
don’t know, we haven’t investigated yet. Councilman Naylor said as
long as we have the time for it, I guess that’s fine. Mr. Malesker said
yeah, I mean PENN DOT’s, going to be springing at some point.
Councilman Snyder said as long as I see water coming out of the
neighbor’s house, I’m fine with it. Councilman Naylor said I’m looking
at it from the safety standpoint. Councilman Myers said even regardless
of what they do, its whatever what’s out there, all those houses as a
home owner, they really should have some check valve or back flow
for that pipe, because anytime something gets clogged its going to
back up in the basement. I think that’s an option when that happens.
Something that everyone of the homeowners would have to do.
Councilman Naylor said on their part. Councilman Noll asked do you
want me to put this in a form of a motion? Councilman Snyder said
yeah, now understand, cause this is going to be coming up later in
the meeting, we’re now changing the scope of your work, what you’ve
given us a figure for to complete this job for the H2O grant. Next month,
I mean I know you don’t have a cost estimate now and until you get this,
you don’t know what this cost is. But everybody understand that the
$18,000.00 figure he gave us to get us to that H2O grant is now going
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 15
to change, because he now has to incorporate this into it. Councilman
Allar asked is it 17 or 18? Mr. Malesker said its seventeen something.
Councilman Snyder said seventeen something I just bumped it up.
Councilman Allar said but the basic cameraing is already part of that.
Councilman Snyder said yes but its just going to be that overage so
when that bill comes in and its at $19,000.00 or whatever this extra
is, just so everybody is aware of this upfront because he doesn’t have
the luxury right now of saying its going be an extra $900.00 or extra
thousand, its an unknown at this point. So as long as everybody is fully
aware of all of that. Councilman Allar said Steve knows what is
allocated from the county, he goes out and gets those different numbers.
Mr. Malesker said what I’d would do, is give us a price per foot to
camera the storm water system, so we would have that, and we would
have whatever that total ends up being, and we give them an estimate,
of 10,000 feet or whatever, so we’d a price for that. I would have another
line item for that work, so that would be totally separate from the other
one. Councilman Allar asked do you know how many feet we have now?
Mr. Malesker said no, I won’t know that yet. Councilman Allar said
do you roughly calculate to come up with this $17,000.00? Mr. Malesker
said well I mean we had some estimates based on the MS-4, what that
number is I don’t know. Councilman Allar said we’re probably not adding
a whole lot of feet to that, we’re talking about the whole borough and
footage. Mr. Malesker said no, but it’s a different camera. Councilman
Allar said the footage, taking the footage for the whole borough, and
this is only one section, its probably not going to change the numbers that
much. Mr. Malesker said no, I would think, it helps because we’re already
doing it. If we were doing it as a stand alone project then. Councilman
Allar said you’ve got 10,000 feet or whatever it is, you can add a hundred.
Mr. Malesker said right but it will be a different camera, it’s a lot smaller
pipe so it’ll probably be a. Councilman Myers said it will whole different
setup, so it will probably take a little bit more time. Mr. Malekser said
it will be likely be a push camera. Councilman Snyder said I just wanted
to bring that to council’s attention. A motion was made by Councilman
Noll that we as part of the work for the H2O grant that we have the line
cameraed in the area of 147 S. Main Street. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Myers. In favor of the motion: Councilwoman Coble
Tyson, Councilman Naylor, Councilman Allar and Councilman Howett.
Councilman Snyder abstained.
Mower Mr. Shearer said the mower that we bought, the transaxle is giving
me a fit. I’m working with M & M on getting a price to repair that.
He said it could be up to a $1000.00 once we get the tractor into
the shop. He’s been a little bit busy and hasn’t been able to get it in
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 16
yet. We did some research online to try to figure where it would
be easier to pick up the best price for the type of rear ends that those
models use but take a look at it and see what’s going on there.
Councilman Allar asked what year is it? Mr. Shearer said I think
its around a 2000. Councilman Myers said you took it to M & M,
you didn’t take to a regular Cub Cadet dealership. Mr. Shearer
said I didn’t take it to the Cub dealer yet. Thought with the mark
up here. I can take it to the Cub dealer if you want me to. Usually
their labor rate is going to be a lot higher. Councilman Myers said
I agree but sometimes like you said he has to do research to find
out which transaxle, right there is your mark up. But. Mr. Shearer
said it hasn’t gone anywhere yet, if you want me to take it somewhere
else, I’d be more than happy to make that call to Hollingers or Myers.
Councilman Naylor said I’m good with it. Mr. Shearer said like I said
there may be some small expense for him to get in there tell me what’s
wrong. I already told you know, we want to figure out what’s wrong
before we actually fix it. But they usually don’t like to dig unless they
know they are getting paid to a lot of times, people say that’s too
expensive I don’t want it done. We’re going to have some expense to
find out what’s wrong with it. Councilman Myers said get me the year
and the model number, see what I’m looking at. Mr. Shearer said I
can do that. Councilman Myers said sometimes I can pick up a used
one. Mr. Shearer said that’s what I was kind of thinking of.
105/107 Mr. Shearer said as far as the question that Dave had about 105/107
E. Penna. I talked to Dan, I think he was following up with the property owner.
Ave. Hopefully when warmer weather comes we’ll see some progress.
Councilman Naylor said its starting to sink now. Mr. Shearer said
actually that’s good then, we can level it out.
Howard Mr. Shearer said bringing that up, that is something I forgot to put
Alley on here today, this just jogged my memory. I did get a call from
a resident up on Wilson Court about the alley to the rear which
would be listed as Howard Alley. That would be the alley that
runs behind back here the street that runs back to Joe Strobeck’s
property. This would be the alley that is back here by the Rexroth
property. There’s a lot of settling in that alley. I was always under
the impression that was something that we maintained. But its not
in the book as being an adopted street for Howard. And just looking
at some of the different plans, because the Rexroth subdivision plan
actually says that its listed as Orchard and says its not adopted. And
I also found it on other subdivision plans from previous owners that
are here on the corner, that show it as not being adopted. But so,
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 17
I think that is our responsibility. I have been plowing it, I haven’t
done anything else with it, I have been plowing it. One because it
does make a handy turn around. But, I don’t know, if there is
previous history here with this, that I’m not aware of it. Mrs.
Crull said Ron still had his equipment, he would go and scrape that
out. Mr. Shearer said that’s what I kind of thought it was I know
Ron said about plowing it and that’s all we ever done to it since
I’ve been here, I haven’t done anything else to it. But its, it is
settling a lot and I’m getting some calls. I would more than happy
to tell them, oops sorry its not an adopted street. Mrs. Crull said
he knew a lot of those people up there, he did that personally.
Mr. Shearer said as far as that goes, its paved, I don’t know if it
was a private paid job, somewhere along the line we paved it.
Somebody had it. Mrs. Crull said at one time, we put something
in there so it didn’t wash out, I don’t know if the borough paid
for that or not. The borough never paid to maintain it. Mr. Shearer
said there again its another one of those streets, its on the map,
it partially exists or doesn’t exist, as far as that goes. There is another
section of Howard that is on that map and in that book as being
adopted, there’s a garden on top of it, so. Councilman Myers said
maybe we just go it switched. Councilman Snyder said I was just going
to say, maybe. Councilman Myers said that’s what it almost sounds
like. Councilman Snyder said well you know we did go through and
change the names, fifty years or a hundred years ago, when it use to
be East and West Main and North and South George. Councilman
Myers said its not one of those change, alleys have change, something
else and something else, I remember reading some old minutes at one
time, I said oh my gosh. Councilman Snyder asked its not in the book
at all? Mr. Shearer said not that section. The sections that are in as
being adopted in your code book, are between Pennsylvania and Clark
Alley, that stone portion. I don’t plow that, we haven’t done anything
to it. The reason I don’t plow it is because I either have to either turn
onto or off Clark, that is really narrow and there’s a lot of obstruction
there. I don’t really worry about it. The other section which shows
being adopted I do. Mr. Shearer said if I understand that map correctly,
that runs through Mr. Manns’ property. I think that’s about where his
garden is. Councilman Myers said I remember him saying about that,
he thought that was adopted. I forget how that works. Mr. Shearer
said I think its listed as North Howard and I think the section between
Clark and Pennsylvania is listed as South Howard. Councilman Snyder
said my opinion, and this is my opinion based on what has transpired over
how many years now with these alleys. It was laid out, and we’ve been
maintaining in as much as salting, plowing. The fact that it hasn’t needed
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 18
macadam, that is immaterial, as far as, putting in macadam and
maintaining it. The things been open so the only thing that hasn’t
been done is officially adopting. I think at that point we probably
need to look at fixing it. Putting in some patch in there. Councilman
Naylor said I wonder since we have been plowing it, we’re not
responsible for it. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying,
we ate this one. Its on the map, its been laid, its definitely been open,
its been macadam. I know for a fact that Woody was plowing it because
the whole contention was back there plowing that, why not Fourth
Street. So I know we’ve been plowing it for so many years, so
I think that is going to show a history of maintaining. Councilman
Naylor asked so what’s there, is it breaking up? Mr. Shearer said
there’s no base there. Mr. Malesker said you probably can’t use
liquid fuels in it. Councilman Myers said it has to be adopted.
Mr. Shearer said if it was adopted we could use liquid fuels money
for it. Mr. Malesker asked is it sixteen foot wide? Councilman
Myers said probably no. Mr. Shearer said if its adopted, if its
an adopted alley, we could use liquid fuels money, we wouldn’t
get paid for it, just like the other alleys that are adopted, that do
not meet criteria to get funding for but we can spend part of the
allotment. Councilman Naylor asked do we need to adopt it so
we can repair it in the spring? Mr. Shearer said I guess here again,
I guess to play into whatever happens that tract of land too. It
services the garages to the rear of Wilson Court, I don’t know,
depending how they divide that section of land up, because, that’s
the piece that is in the borough. That would be the front of the
property. Councilman Myers said if its not adopted, you can’t
use liquid fuels, you’ll have to take it out of your budget. Councilman
Snyder said I think its one of those things that we’ll just take
it out of the general fund. Mr. Shearer said or you adopt it and make
it big enough and take it out of your liquid fuels. Councilman Myers
said you’re still not going to get that much for it, you’ll never get
your money back. Mr. Malesker said you can also consider not
adopting it and let it go. Mrs. Crull said if Rexroth is going to do
something with that land, why do you want to spend the money until
you know what’s going to happen there. Mr. Shearer said coal
patch is running. Councilman Snyder said according to his plan,
that is running off his property anyway. Councilman Myers said is
that right? Mr. Shearer said that’ what I was saying, depending on how
that property gets divided up, that actually may be the front of it,
that may be the street in front of a house. Mr. Malesker said this plan
has been tabled, its going to change because there is no frontage
on the one lot so they do have to put a cul de sac in York Township
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 19
so these plans are going to change so I haven’t seen the revised
plans yet. So that may have an impact on it. Mr. Shearer said like
I said the price sheet I got from York Building products the other
day, coal patch is running like $60.00 a ton or something like that.
Councilman Snyder said if its cheap enough to throw some coal
patch on it. I wouldn’t adopt it, but I think we have to maintain it.
Councilman Myers said make the repair. Mr. Malesker said I don’t think you have to maintain it. Councilman Myers said we don’t have
to, the problem is we have been doing it for so long. Mrs. Crull
said over established time. Councilman Snyder said I think that’s
what Pete would think. Councilwoman Tyson Cable is there an
established number of years. Councilman Snyder said the twenty
one year rule and its been opened and its been laid out, we’ve been
maintaining it, we meet the criteria. Councilman Myers said its
been a long time ago, I think John he got sick, I know I plowed it,
I didn’t know, I just opened it up so people could get out. Councilman
Naylor asked is it something that can be fixed with coal patch for
now? Mr. Shearer said yeah. Councilman Snyder said that’s not
saying we don’t put tar and chip over it as an alternative in the future.
Right now you patch it and move on. Mr. Shearer said even tar and
chip, the biggest problem is, like every other street in town, there’s
not enough base. We’re just keep busting up. Councilman Naylor
said being an alley, it doesn’t see much traffic. Councilman Snyder
said that’s why we always get away with it. That is one thing that
Ron always stressed, we have an engineer sitting there saying, this
is what you need, we had Ron saying this is what we can get away
with. Councilman Naylor said well, I mean its just a alley, how
much traffic does it get. Councilman Snyder said exactly you have
four houses back there. Councilman Naylor said will you need a ton
of coal for that. Mr. Shearer said like I said, I still have to get some
for some other spots, I was going to fix some of the other spots,
fill that and get it filled in. Councilman Naylor said get a ton of coal
patch or whatever you need. You need to make some kind of motion
for money for a coal patch. Councilman Myers said no, we have money
budgeted to do that.
Pennsylvania Councilman Noll asked are you going to say anything about
Avenue Pennsylvania, what we went out and looked out? Mr. Shearer said
Upper the question I had last month about the upper side of East Pennsylvania
Side East there at the intersection of Church with the parking issue. One day
Seth was in town, I showed him what my concerns were. Councilman
Noll said I took some pictures, basically there is no turn around up there.
It would be question if we have the right to put a turn around up in that
area. Unfortunately, the previous zoning officer decided to let a home
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 20
owner to put a shed right on our right of way. So, that’s an issue.
In a scenario, if we could put a turn around, if we want to do that
or not. The other option would be the parking we had proposed
on the parts of land that we were looking at acquisition, that
municipal lot for a turn around. The third option would be to post
it a snow emergency, so it could be properly plowed, people would
probably complain a little bit, but the one or two times a year you have
to that, it would save a lot. Councilman Myers asked where would they
park? Councilman Noll said they would have to park down the street.
There are probably ten houses up there. Councilman Snyder asked don’t
most of those have off street parking there. Mr. Shearer said on the
upper side, no. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said they park right along
the street. Mr. Shearer said there are only about two houses up there
that have off street parking. Everybody else is right out front. Councilman
Naylor asked you just need an area that has no parking? Mrs. Crull asked
wasn’t there a turn around up there before? Mr. Shearer said there’s
a turn around at the end, that’s another question that, okay, exactly
how did that get to be turn around and where does it say it is a turn around.
That’s what I’m saying, everybody says it’s a turn around, where’s the
paperwork that says that, that is a turnaround. Councilman Snyder said
it’s a turn around cause the other guy put a shed up there. Mr. Shearer
said the turn around predated the shed, okay, the shed, the road never
went through the boundary. I have talked Dustin Claycomb the property
owner there, and he has the majority of the open area in between
his house and neighbor’s house, it would benefit him if we could do
something away from his house to make the turn around more cul de
sac shaped which would allow me to plow snow easier. I guess the
other thing, that turn around as it is, its difficult to try to push the snow
to where you can clean it up out there. That whole side is. Councilwoman
Coble Tyson said it’s a mess to walk on. Mr. Shearer said the bad part is
the most shaded area in the borough, snow and ice do not melt easily,
I have to use a lot of material in there, to try to keep it passable and
it just doesn’t have a lot of width. Its really frustrating. Councilman Noll
asked any suggestions on what we can do there. Mrs. Crull said I am
going to leave because of snow.
Water Councilman Myers said I was going to mention this under unfinished
Authority business but because of Connie leaving, that water authority thing.
I talked to Patti, nothing has come up since the last meeting, so she’ll
bring it up. She actually called the Red Lion Water Company tonight,
just to see what they would do, the procedure if there was a water
leak and stuff and I don’t know why, Red Lion says, they have a
numbers, all they have to do is pick up the phone and call, all they
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 21
tell you to do is pick up the phone and call 911. Mrs. Crull said when
Debbie called 911, 911 wanted to know why she was calling there,
it wasn’t an emergency as far as they were concerned. Councilman
Myers said right, and that doesn’t surprise me, whenever they can
pass the buck and not take care of something they do that now. So
Patti said she is going to bring that up and see what they can do.
Councilman Noll said I may be able to answer that cause I met with
Connie and basically what they said for the water authority this
comes from the persons that were there at last month’s meeting. That
anytime during the day or night you can call the borough up there and
leave it on the machine if no one is there. If it is a true emergency,
they do have it set up with 911 that they are suppose to call. They do
have the books, they check into, they have all the information because
she is listed as the first call. The other thing that they are going to
do is put Dana on as our point of contact so whenever there is a break
or anything in the borough, he’ll get the phone call first. The person
who was there, you may or may not know, they have an employee,
that they let go at Dallastown Borough, he was the one that was suppose
to be making these contacts, well he wasn’t. That is part of the reason
he is longer there. But he’ll call Dana, then he’ll know, then he’ll call
the mayor, then he could call Sam. Mrs. Crull said it’s a question when
you come home from work and its five o’clock or six o’clock in the
evening and you have no water, who do you call, because everybody
is closed. If you call 911 and say you have no water, they are going to
say so what. Councilman Noll said they’re suppose to put also up
there, working on the water, a little placard, you’ve probably seen.
If there is true emergency like that, that’s how their system is set up.
I talked to them if they could get a call number or anything like that,
at this point they didn’t seem to have any interest in that. Councilman
Allar asked if you call the office, you do not get a recording? Councilman
Noll said its just the borough, there is not a separate number for the
Dallastown Water Authority, it’s the Dallastown borough office. Mrs.
Crull said if anybody just like when my daughter had hers, when she
came home she had no water, now they did notify the people right where
the break was, but she didn’t know that, nobody bothered to let her
know, she lives a couple of blocks away. Councilman Noll said that
was part of the problem too, they are suppose to notify everybody,
that is effected by that. The employee that is no longer there, was
responsible for that. So technically they should be getting a notice
on their door you are going to be without water because of the break,
or service is something that just occurs, they really should at this
point call 911 because they didn’t have any change, this is how the
system is set up, rightly or wrongly. Connie, she gave me her information
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 22
which I can pass on to Sandy, cell phone for her, she wants to be
first contact if anything happens. The secretary said then Dana would
get them then. Councilman Noll said Dana would get them. The
secretary said Dana would get them first then call Connie. Councilman
Myers said its interesting with county 911, everyone pushing toward
911, however they have procedures now and they go into this storm
alert, they refuse to call anybody, they won’t call anybody. Actually
are leaning towards the fire companies, from now on when you have
a problem like with Met Ed, gas company, in a storm alert, call yourself,
they will not make the phone calls. Mrs. Crull said why are we paying
them then? Councilman Myers said because they say they are too
busy, to deal with the amount of calls, they can’t handle it. Councilman
Allar said the simplest way is to have a recording, which tells you what
the problem is and they change they update the story. Councilman Noll
said unless they decide to do something a little bit differently, at this
point. So. I thought we had a good conversation, we established Dana
as our contact, doing that for the borough. The secretary asked
what number did you give for Dana? Councilman Noll said his
cell phone. The secretary said okay. Councilman Noll said they
have all that, and that way too, we know if there is a problem, they’ll
call if we should know about it. A standard citizen. Councilman
Allar said if we need there is Patti, George and Steve, these guys
have a relationship with the authority at their respective meetings.
Councilman Myers said I just know I understand what she is saying,
but I also see on the other end, I see on how the county is doing and
not doing and its not going to be forwarded, if they go into a storm
alert. Councilman Noll said in theory its call 911, there’s some
reason they don’t want to pay for an extra, whatever it is. Councilman
Myers said in their defense, the problem is they are extremely business,
problem is when they start to get storms and asked a bunch. Mrs.
Crull said I can understand that, when there was that water break,
we didn’t have a storm or anything else. Councilman Noll said the
other bad thing at the 911 center unless they have dramatically
changed is a high turnover rate. Councilman Myers said I’ll tell
you how bad it is, they monitor our alarm system for our automatic
alarm for our building, we’re going to go to our monitoring service.
Cause they get the calls, the calls will come in. Councilman Allar
said you’re saying 911 calls? Councilman Myers said I’m saying
its not going to work, it depends on the time. Councilman Allar said
you need to tell Patti that. Councilman Myers said I’m actually
going to tell her that tonight, its not going to work. Councilman Naylor
said our recording, to give an idea on who to call, have that contact
list or couple numbers on our recording. The secretary said I can
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 23
put the point of contact down in case of a water emergency. Put
his number down is that correct? Councilman Myers said she said
not, she said she didn’t. Councilman Allar said most people
call Dallastown. Councilman Myers said there are certain water
people around, my idea is have an answering service, you get
Dana who to call. Councilman Noll said I 100% agree, unless you
get it brought up at the meeting, Connie didn’t seem in favor of
that at all with that. Because you are probably looking at an answering
service at 200 bucks a month. Councilman Myers said an answering
service is available twenty four hours. Councilman Allar said if there
is someone there, that person will tell you what to do, if there is no
one there then there’s a recording. It’s the same borough number, they
don’t go through any extra expenses. Councilman Noll said if we
are allowed to give out the number that water has. Councilman
Myers said that’s what we’re saying, Patti called tonight called that,
the filter plant said we’re going to tell you call 911, they don’t even make
a phone call. We buy water. There’s a little bit of tiff there because.
Councilman Noll said there are a few others things there too. For
now we should use Dana as our contact, strongly recommend
that are on the water authority or have influence on the people
who are on it about if it’s a Saturday. Councilman Snyder said just
say its not working, you just talked to Connie a week or so, we know
its not going to work but we need to show whether the water authority
bring it up the next time or not, she’s still going to say this is how
its going to be. Until we have that episode, when someone comes
home, like in Connie’s instance, well I called 911, they didn’t take
care of, that what needs to be brought up in front of a water authority
meeting and say now something needs to change. Councilman Noll
said the other thing that Connie offered, is to come down maybe
twice a year and give us an update but her in as a visitor to give
an update on the water authority, she said she would be more
than happy to talk to us and give us any updates and if we have any
questions. I said I wanted to bring all this up, so there wasn’t an
ambush when she is here, she’s more than willing to do that, I think
it would be a good thing plus everybody will get to see her face, I don’t
know if you all know Connie so.
Resignation Councilman Snyder said like I said the agenda is all messed up, while
of we are discussing the water authority, on old business, we do have a
George a board member, George Howett effective February 1,2010. And thanks
Howett for his opportunity to serve on the water authority. So we need to appoint
Maintenance Report (cont.) Page 24
to appoint someone to fill his position there. So. Councilman Howett
asked Mr. Shearer, your wife said she would do that. Mr. Shearer
said yes. She said, if you have someone else in mind okay, but if
not she would be willing to do it. Councilman Snyder said so George
was kind enough to find a replacement which is what I always like,
if you are going to go off, find someone to fill it . And of course,
Dana’s wife, he already talked to her, she said she is willing to take
that responsibility on. A motion was made by Councilman Noll to accept
George’s resignation from the Water Authority. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Naylor. In favor of motion: Councilwoman Coble Tyson,
Councilman Allar, Councilman Myers and Councilman Snyder.
Abstaining from the vote: Councilman Howett. Councilman Snyder said
motion carried and thank you very much for your service. A motion to
Appointment to appoint Mrs. Shearer to the open spot on the Water Authority and for
of Mrs. Sandy to inform her of the dates of her appointment. You will have to
Shearer let know the term of her appointment. The secretary said I will have to
let Connie Stokes know too, and Connie will have to get a hold of her.
I have her appointment term on the letter and I’ll copy it, its whatever
George’s term is. I think he was only appointed last year. Councilman
Snyder said that’s what I thought. The secretary said it’s a four or
five year cycle. The motion was made by Councilman Naylor. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
motion carried.
Question Councilwoman Coble Tyson asked is she appointed as council member
about as well. You don’t have to be a council member as well, you don’t
Appointment have to be a council member to fill in. Councilman Snyder said no.
Its just over and above.
Penna. Councilman Noll asked do we want to do any action over and above on
Avenue Pennsylvania Avenue with a snow turn around and the problems with
Upper East pushing snow there. Councilman Snyder said I’d like to know what the
status of the rail trail is going to be, its almost like we’re going to put
this step in front of this step, we don’t know what the outcome of this
step is yet. I sort of like to see, let’s face winter is almost over, I sort
of like to see, not to mention I’d like to talk to Dana, I don’t see why,
I don’t see why we can’t just push the snow down over the embankment.
And then back up, like he does there up on Park Street, cause that is
a dead end up behind my place. He goes up behind Floyds, piles it up
and then just backs up, so as far as pushing any snow, just push it
down over the hill and back up. Until we find out what the status is
of the rail trail and what we’re going to do with that potential
parking lot. Councilman Noll said that may be the best thing for him
then. Councilman Snyder said if we end up with parking there, you
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 25
know then that opens up. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said the whole
area. Councilman Snyder said yeah. So I hate to jump the gun now,
without knowing what that is, what I heard that’s going to be coming
down the pike in the next month or too, they’re going to be making
recommendations for that. Councilman Allar said its not going to be
the rail trial, its just not useable for the rail trail, its dead ended. Again
the property owner at the one end is not going to let you through, this
is a physical survey that Jason had done. This is the property in question
right here, this guy is not going to let you go down this way. Over here
you have Main Street which is too dangerous to cross and next to it
you have Yoe Auto Parts, which is not going to give us an easement so
this whole stretch is not useable. So if you want to make decisions on it,
you can make decisions on it now, it has nothing to do with the rail trail.
But I won’t confirm it anyway. Councilman Noll said I guess the only
question is, is Pete looking at furthering the quiet title on it, see how
much that would cost, give us an estimate on it. He was looking at it to
give us an estimate. Councilman Allar said you said no, if you asked
Pete about it, you said no. Councilman Noll said I think that’s what we
should probably do. Councilman Snyder said I never talked to him about
it. Councilman Noll said to keep things moving, I think if the rail trail’s
not go through, we’re pretty sure its not. But we want to get independent,
before we spend the money, at least have Pete tell us, if its going to
be like $2000.00 to get quiet title, with the understanding that, if there
are some issues we’re going to have use eminent domain on it, if someone
throws up an obstruction. That would allow us to execute on that estimate.
Councilman Allar said the usage doesn’t have to be determined now,
whether we use it for parking or sell it, the point of it is, we have to take
ownership first, so lets leave it at that. Councilman Snyder said what I had
heard, we are getting conflicting information as to what we need to do
with that property. I contacted Jeff Shue, and this is what I’m saying, its
still not, the rail trail is going to make a determination in the next couple
of months, they haven’t ruled anything out, everything is still on the
table. So, they’re going to make the best recommendation as to what
should be done. What I was talking with Jeff Shue, originally when we
were looking at the rail trail information, they already claimed that the
property reverted to the original property owner. So according to Jeff
Shue, and this is where Jeff Shue said he’s not a lawyer, but he thinks,
Pete is looking up the wrong tree, he’s saying, you need to do an
eminent domain, versus just a quiet title. A quiet title would get you
if you had the right take it, but from what their attorney is telling them,
and the way their proceeding with the rail trail is you have to negotiate
with each individual property owner. Councilman Allar said that’s true
in maybe 98% of the cases, when the property is adjoining the rail
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 26
trail property, this is not the case here. You have a street, you have
property owners, you have a street, you have property owners, you
have a street, the only property that is adjoining this one here, this
guy has already taken that over. This is not the typical case. He’s
talking general case, not this specific piece of land. Councilman
Snyder said oh yeah, he’s talking general terms. Councilman Allar
said general terms don’t apply here. Councilman Snyder said under
general terms, though, what he is saying, the property reverted back
to where the properties came from. That did come from somebody.
Councilman Allar said where they came from, we don’t know.
Councilman Snyder said well, and that’s where it gets, a lot more
complicated than Pete go in and do a quiet title. Councilman Allar
said before Pete does that, he’s going to do whatever research. The
rail trail did a legal search of the whole twelve miles, three hundred
and some property owners, and I checked with Jeff. And also Jason,
when he did this, looking at the records. They can not come up with
anything connected with this land, if it’s the adjoining property owner
or whatever. Mr. Malesker said I talked to Jeff about it too, that is
what he said. Normally, the land go back to the property owner, in
this case, since there is separation by the street, the land doesn’t just
go back to them because it falls in an island, so it doesn’t go back.
Its not abutting property that would go back to a land owner but like
at some point maybe they did, but now there’s a street separating it.
Councilman Snyder said a street separating. Mr. Malesker said I think
that’s the difference in this case. Councilman Noll said I think before,
the first step is applied, I think we can all agree. I think to move things
along, try to keep it in front of us, in the next couple month’s its
something we can go after I’d like to know at least what it costs and
have Pete look at what we have to do. So if we can go forward, we
know the course, yeah we can do that or whoa its going to cost us
$10,000.00. Councilman Snyder said I’m sure he’d do a quiet title
for next to nothing, like he always said you only require the title that
you’re possibly vested. As long as no one else fights it, it would be
a good thing. Councilman Noll said is that something Sam you possible
could talk to him. Councilman Snyder said oh yeah, we are going to
see him tomorrow. Councilman Noll said not that we’re going to take
any action on it, at least know the cost, is all. Councilman Snyder said
yeah, to bring it back. Councilman Noll said bring us one step closer.
Councilman Snyder said come to think about it, I thought I did ask
him about that. Councilman Noll said that’s why I asked, I thought
you did have that conversation. Councilman Snyder said I thought
I did back when we met him in the middle of the month, on the
Chronister deal. Cause I wasn’t actually sure why we had to meet
Maintenance Report(Cont.) Page 27
again today anyways. He wants to be prepared. Okay.
Engineer’s Report
Orchard Mr. Malesker said like I said, the Orchard Hills Vista plans have been
Hills tabled. Because the one property in York Township, the one didn’t have
Vista any frontage, they’re going to put some kind of cul de sac in. Rexroth’s
engineer called me and said they’re going to discuss, its going to
change. So. Stop your review. Councilman Snyder said I received a
phone call from Terry Ruby, last week. Mr. Malesker said they’re
meeting tonight. Councilman Snyder said yeah, they are meeting tonight,
they wanted us to comment on it. She said they were going to table it
only because they did not have comments from the municipalities. So
if you’re getting word from Rexroth, to not doing anything. I would
suggest to you, follow that up with a letter to York County Planning,
stating that you were requested by Rexroth to stop reviewing the plan
because he was going to submit changes. Because right now Terry Ruby
is expecting us tonight to make recommendations to York County
Planning on what they should do with this plan. Mr. Malesker said I think
Jeff Spangler, from Holley office, he’s the one that called and said he
already talked to her about it. I can just call her and follow up on it.
Councilman Snyder said I would because the reason I was told that they
were going to table the plan tonight is because they were waiting on us
to comment. I mean that was just a courteous to us and even York
Township, they said they didn’t want move forward with the project
if they were going to be a problem. At that time, she informed whomever,
with Holley, to look over our ordinances, he does have a land development
coming on the tail end of this. So I would, she’s looking, the last I heard
from her, we’re looking for comments from Yoe Borough. I would follow
that up with her. Mr. Malesker said she called me about that, asking me
when I was going to have the comments. Councilman Snyder said so I
would follow it up with her. Mr. Malesker said this was before, she had
called Monday and Tuesday, I guess Spangler called me on a Friday.
Councilman Snyder said yep, I’m just, cover thy ass. If they want
comments from Yoe Borough, then those are the comments we present.
We were asked to stop reviewing on behalf of him and that’s what we do.
Because he is going to resubmit. And that way they know we don’t review
it any further. And she’ll hold it up again. The worse is that they’ll deny
it again, because we didn’t have a chance to review it. They need to know
that and that has to documented in writing because they are working on
a ninety day turn around on this. I can see them playing they’re little
games. Cause isn’t that amazing, all of a sudden, York Township and
Yoe Borough didn’t submit any comments because they were told not
to, and next month, we didn’t get any comments so I guess they don’t
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
have any objections so now we have to pass it. I see how that’s played.
Okay.
Flood Mr. Malekser said for the flood impoundment restoration, start with the
Impound- grant, I sent that email last week or the week before where they had
ment said that they need a two week window to turn the grant paperwork
Restoration around, we signed that at the January 4th meeting, mailed it very next
day, I was planning on having everything improved at the end of January
so we could sign the agreements at this meeting. And of course according
to that email, they hadn’t even looked at it at that point, someone was
on vacation. So we did talk to Jackie Lincoln today and they are going
to try to get it rolling here in the next week or so. So I did not bring
the contracts with me to execute since funding is still an issue. Make
sure we had that $51,000.00 coming in before we signed the agreement,
so we are not on the hook for that. Sounds like it is going to be approved,
its just a matter of them getting the paperwork done. They also mentioned
today, about the additional $15,400.00. That they were waiting on
York County on some issues with that, to clear that money and then,
we told them, we want to keep them to separate projects, to keep those
separate and so that’s what they’re going to do. So they are going to
process the first one, and then not get the $15,400.00 processed yet,
that will be treated as a separate application so it doesn’t tie up the
first $51,400.00. So that’s where we are with that. I did speak with
Abel Construction as far as, typically what our specs say, if the
project is awarded, contracts need to be awarded within ninety days,
however there is another clause in there, you have 120 days if there
is a funding issue. So then we have until March 7th to have the
agreement signed. This is a funding issue although it doesn’t really
matter to Abel, because they aren’t going to withdraw the bid anyway.
They want the work. So their bid is going to stay until the contract is
in place. So. Don’t have to worry on the time with that, they’re on
board, just have to wait until the funding situation is worked out.
Then at that point, we’ll set up the preconstruction meeting. Get the
ball rolling. Once we find out about the grant, I’ll come in , on
my way home, and we’ll drop the contracts off. Councilman Allar
asked and Sandy you have all the other municipalities checks. The
secretary said no because we are waiting for the contract. Councilman
Allar said no as far as Red Lion and Dallastown. The secretary said
I announced Dallastown and Windsor and you followed up with Red
Lion. We don’t have York Township or the county’s yet because they
need the contract. Councilman Allar said I thought we agreed last month
to go ahead and sign it because we knew the money from the county.
The secretary said the contract isn’t here. Councilman Allar asked are
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
we going to sign that now, in anticipation of it, I mean, we’re getting
everything in place. Mr. Malesker said well, what I was saying I wouldn’t
recommend signing it until you have the money, until they send the
executed paperwork back telling you the $51,500.00 is coming. You know
how DEP has played games in the past. Councilman Allar said I know,
I brought that up last month, and you said we got to do, so sign it
anyways. So I said put it off until next month, so nothing has really
changed. Mr. Malesker said no, because they said they needed two
weeks, and here it is getting close to a month and half. Councilwoman
Coble Tyson asked do we have a time constraint? Mr. Malesker said
no not like we had with the park. So I mean if you want I can bring
the contracts tomorrow, if you want, if you want to absolutely sign them
get this rolling but then. Councilman Noll asked what do you think our
timeframe is for to get something from DEP, two weeks? Mr. Malesker
said from talking to Jackie, he’s back from vacation, should be within
the next two weeks. Councilman Allar said they’re going to combine
this into one award letter. Mr. Malesker said we’re trying to separate that
so. It doesn’t stall the $51,000.00 what they were doing they were waiting
for the letter from York County to release that additional, to liquidate that
additional $15,400.00, that was what they were waiting for. We told them
don’t wait on that, we want to get this through. And so that’s why its
going to be treated as two separate grants which it should be because its
two separate projects. One is the dredging, the other the mitigation.
Councilman Noll said if we can sign, I don’t know if this has to be part of
motion, but if you get that between council meetings as long as we have
the $51,000.00 assured, I think we should go ahead and sign the contract.
Which allows us to give what York Township is requesting so we can
give them the final contract. Councilman Snyder said follow it up with
a motion, it didn’t happen last month. Councilman Noll made a motion
that as soon as we have the funding, of $51,000.00, if we have it before
the next council meeting, we go ahead, Sam execute the contract,
with Abel Construction and make copies of York Township and the
county. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried. The secretary asked do you
want me to leave you know its signed and have Dana bring it in or
are you going to pick it up? Mr. Malesker said I’ll probably work with,
I just don’t want to throw the contracts in the door, the mail slot,
I’ll get with Dana if you’re not here. Have him put them in your office.
The secretary said I will definitely be here because I’m getting audited,
so if you want to bring them in Friday, I’m definitely being here. Mr.
Malesker asked you want me to drop them off in anticipation. I’m
meeting with Joe Thursday afternoon. The secretary said I can let
Dana know, just in case he might not be here, when he is doing snow
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
a lot of times he leaves after one. Cause he has to get his time, so that
is the only thing I could see that would mess it up. If he is out late
tonight, then he would leave early tomorrow or Thursday, they
are anticipating snow on Saturday. That’s what you could do, you
could just drop it off on your way to work on Friday, if you don’t
mind, because I will be here on eight on Friday because I’m getting
audited on Friday. Mr. Malesker said okay. Councilwoman Coble Tyson
said we are just going to hold it until, the information can be here for
signature. Mr. Malesker said it is easy to drop off. I can drop it off on
Friday. There was some revisions there, I had given the engineering
estimate back, the construction phase estimate back in Decemeber I
believe, there was, what was added to that, was the task for the grant
administration, that wasn’t included in the initial construction phase
estimate that I gave you, we had talked, that was added and revised so
this what the new scope of work for the task and all the different tasks
associated with the project. So that is all up to date.
Park Mr. Malesker said for the park, all the work is complete except for the
punch list items. The contractor is going to come in the spring time and
restore vegetation, remove those rock piles, I don’t know if they removed
those yet. Councilman Noll said they are still up there. Mr. Malesker
said also reseal the joints and then, Sandy has some security that she
is holding until those punch list items are done. The secretary said the
grant completion report for DCED has been filed, DCNR we are still
waiting on YCPC to file that report, correct? Mr. Malesker said right.
The secretary said York County Planning invoice. Mr. Malesker said
what check numbers have actually, checks that they paid to Legend
Construction. DCNR wants. The secretary said you have everyting.
Mr. Malesker said I have everything from you, yes. The secretary said
all I need is a copy of that report, when you get that far. So I can put
it in my book. Mr. Malesker said that’s fine and then that’ll close.
The secretary said DCNR out and DCED out. Mr. Malekser said then
you’ll get your seven thousand then. Councilman Noll said with the
park I know you and I had talked, now that everything is complete,
there was some overages that we wanted to discuss for C. S. Davidson.
Mr. Malesker said right, did you get my email. Councilman Noll said
I did. And its at my office. I realize I ran it at the end of the day. It
all looked good. What we did, just to bring everyone up to speed. C.
S. Davidson did some additional work for us, they gave us a scope of
work, they did some additional work, at this point they are coming
back to us as council to say here are the items we did additional for
Yoe Borough. Seeing if we are willing to pay for those items. Steve
has been very gracious about it, he said if you guys don’t pay me,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
I won’t like you very much, but that’s good. But I do think, in looking
over, well, we need documentation on it, that we went over, Steve
can go over that very quickly. But I personally looked over it and
I feel that the money, has a lot to do with additional work they did,
to get almost $50,000.00, of additional money which was not in the
original scope of work. And I let you go through those items. Mr.
Malesker said a lot of it had to do with, with the $25,000.00 fee was
originally for design phase activities did not include construction
phase activities so we had coordination with York County Planning,
not only with, the additional money, just getting all the paperwork that
was required for the CDBG applications for payment and all that. The
extensive amounts of paperwork that was required with DCNR, and
then the contract administration that was involved that was involved
with project and the reveal and the contractor’s application for payment
the award, the notice to proceed, the execution, the certificate of
potential completion, all contract items was part of that, and then
the project management during the course of the project, the bi weekly
meetings that I went to, the shop drawing review the items, the materials
that were being used, and then we just had there is a small fee for the
bid award evaluation, Billet Construction contested that they were
actually the low bidder, based on the alternate, the alternate was
not awarded, but technically they weren’t the low bidder anyway but
there were some discussions that we had to have with Pete on that,
Jason had some time committed too, so I have everything documented.
I didn’t bring a copy for everybody, basically what this ends up as
$4772.00 over, which actually was $5900.00 but I already took out
$1200.00 as a contribution and I know the problem is Jason had
mentioned, the $25,000.00 figure was in everybody’s head, unfortunately
he didn’t give everybody a set scope budget, like I have, the dredging
so. I did not send this invoice out I wanted to discuss it with Seth, since
he was in charge of the park project, and just discuss it with him, if
we need to write it off whatever, take that into consideration. I just
wanted to define the expenses that we had, had. Councilman Noll said
and this part of the reason why we had asked C. S. Davidson to write
us scopes because this what wasn’t happening before, it kind of cleans
up some of the past activities, get us right. I did review it and anybody
is free to take a look at it. We did have roughly about $7000.00 left
between all the monies that the borough and the county had put in for
the park, so there is money to cover it. Its really up to how everyone
feels here. Steve didn’t really want to bring it up, but I said you do
the work, I feel they have the right to it, but its really up to everyone
here to decide if that is true or not so. But again, its why we need to
watch our scopes of work, and its good that we knew, I went back
and looked, a lot of these things were not there. We managed as what
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 32
I thought as much as we could, the borough to save us $15,000.00 to
$20,000.00 plus as with all the drawings, stamps. We saved ourselves
a good amount of money. Councilman Allar asked Steve, what was
the percentage of engineer that we had? Mr. Malesker said lets see.
Councilman Noll said I think if you look at the numbers its around
10.2. Mr. Malesker said I was going to say around ten percent.
Councilman Noll said which is typically around 10% of cost so.
Councilman Snyder said personally I think its justifiable, I know for
a fact that there was a lot of stuff that happened there at the end.
Even I’m sure what you just talked, even just things about going to
go back through readjust, getting the county to give us the extra
$40,000.00 there was so much extra work involved there that
we didn’t the luxury of like we did. Just like I mentioned on the
the other thing. Everybody needs to know this changes the scope of
work. So in that instance, he just said, Steve go out and get us another
$40,000.00 from the county and nothing was ever discussed, you know
that’s going push you over, its over and above what we discussed as
part of the scope of work, or engineering projection ahead of time.
So personally I think $30,000.00 in engineering on a $270,000.00
project is within reason. Councilman Noll said I think when we pay
also, when we did that we had have middle scope of work down for
us, they did all the administrative work done for us. Councilman
Snyder said yeah, he had to go and say I recommend you drop this,
drop that, drop this and. Mr. Malesker said and then we added it back
in. Councilman Snyder said we had to add it back in, I mean. Councilman
Noll said we changed some of the drawings with the pipe that we pulled
out and put in the upper end of the basketball courts. That we rework
the swales and things, in there. Councilman Snyder said trying to save.
Councilman Noll said saved $1000.00 in pipe so. Councilman Snyder said
cause I mean they did all that work to try to save money on the back
end of it. Councilman Noll said Steve was a little hesitate to bring it in
front of us but, like I said we did. Councilman Allar said the meetings
the construction meetings, and pre construction meetings, did they do
that is that included with that? Mr. Malesker said this is construction
phase services that Jason didn’t include in his $25,000.00 that he told
you, that $25,000.00 was a design fee, the difference is between the
design phase and construction phase. Councilman Noll said I think
basically and a read that through, what he had, what he did was he
got us to the point where we could award the contract. Councilman
Snyder said and that’s one thing, again I know how we changed things
there at the very end. How we pulled out money because we didn’t
have enough then we had to send them, because they were the
intermediate to go back to York County Planning to request extra
money, and how he cut down the scope of work. I mean I know
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33
there was extra work there, that wasn’t even contemplated in the
original $25,000.00 figure because how would we know we weren’t
going to get, that bids were going to come in where they did. So
just things like that, I feel its justifiable, I know they do that to stuff
all the time. And this very important though as far as why we stress,
if you have a scope of work now, its identified, and that’s why I think
its important just like what was done tonight with the dam impoundment.
We now have a new addition to that, called grant administration,
that’s now itemized, $2700.00, we’re looking at just $2700.00 to
administer the grant, on this, that we already know about, I can see
we have $2700.00 in going after that extra $40,000.00 and stuff.
Councilman Noll said I want to say, one of our biggest reasons that
we had meetings with the engineer and C. S. Davidson, because
we want the scopes of work, that’s the reason we requested this,
going forward solves problems but. Councilman Myers said I agree,
I know at work it sometimes goes over target, things don’t play off.
That is frustrating. Councilman Noll said I know where Steve is,
I’ll put my contractors out there, I’ve been there, holding back,
seeing what Steve does. Councilman Myers said I don’t want people
to think you have a scope of work and all of a sudden, it can change,
it can still change, I’ve been through it. Mr. Malesker said that’s the
thing, the scope of work from the park was very dynamic, it started
out as a skate park, it involved into more of a traditional park and
play area. So the scope was being changed without any revisions,
made to the budget. Councilman Noll said I guess it comes down to,
like anything, it’s a change order request. Sorry for your luck but
my personal opinion is, I think they documented it and I think they
have the right. A motion was made by Councilman Howett to pay
$4772.02 to C. S. Davidson for the additional work for the park.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Mr. Malesker said thank
you. Councilman Snyder said I guess on behalf of the borough thank you
for dropping off that extra $1200.00, you said it originally came to
$5900.00. Mr. Malekser said yeah, I shaved some of my time for some
of the meetings too, if I included that in my lunch hour, sometimes close
to home, I do what I can to make things as. Councilman Snyder said
just for the record I do want to point out that I do appreciate what
Steve has done since he’s come on board, there has been numerous
times where he had gone out of his way, on his own time. I think
one of them was with you Tom, he was on vacation that time, when
he had. That you had to meet with Jake Romig and Danko and we
don’t get charged for them because he is doing it on his way home
from work. Councilman Allar said when was that? Mr. Malesker
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34
said this was early, remember when we met out there, I was actually
on vacation that day, the meeting was already set. Councilman Allar
said the Army Corps and the state DEP was there. Mr. Malesker said
there was a meeting that I knew. Councilman Snyder said but at the
same point, I want to council to realize that we do appreciate what
you’ve been doing, and there’s a lot of times that you do things on
your own and your own behalf, when its off the clock or on your
way home, dropping them off. The Cora Brooks, its appreciated.
Mr. Malesker said thank you. Councilman Snyder said well thank you.
Mr. Malesker said I do care about the borough, I’m a neighbor, do
what I can to help out.
Cora Mr. Malesker said another one of the things I had, Cora Brooks
Brooks Foundation grant has been resubmitted. Ted turned that around
very quickly. Councilman Snyder said just to update everybody
for I guess for the record, Patti was able to get information to
Steve from the fire department. Steve forwarded that on and
coordinated with Jake, that was submitted on time in a timely
fashion. Come to find out, the Cora Brooks Foundation
contacted Patti directly, found out that fire company was
wrong classification. Mr. Malesker said a 501 C-4 instead of
501 C-3. Councilman Snyder said for the grant and suggested
if we, that we should try to resubmit it under the ambulance
club. At this point though that looks very good, very promising
that they actually see that we have some merit, that they took
the time and to actually to expend the deadline, and said hey
if you turn this around,we’re consider it. That information was
immediately turn around to Steve and through Patti, got ahold
of Ted, within a matter of two days, Ted actually turned that
around and that was actually submitted and on its way to
Cora Brooks as of yesterday. Councilman Allar said to Jake
too, cause it was his writing and his contact to Cora Brooks in
advance of all this stuff, its also helpful to stay in contact.
Councilman Myers said it was all around good team work.
Councilman Snyder said yeah, that’s why I’m saying this all
came to. Councilman Allar said mitigation, Jake feels he is
going to need some money to complete the design, he is also
working with Steve under a subcontract arrangement. You
have a sub arrangement with him. Jake feels its probably in
area of $1500.00 to $2000.00 for putting the design together,
and he is staying close to Mike at the Corps of Engineers so
he can go through this one time only, get exactly what he wants,
put it down. And that’s going to be the specifications to go to
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
the township. So I want to bring up a motion so we allow
an extra $2000.00 through C. S Davidson. Mr. Malekser said
his work with the foundation, what he would be doing, is above
and beyond what he would normally do, so its something he
has to charge for, basically. Councilman Snyder said now is,
let me on record first, that is a well spent $1500.00, $2000.00,
okay. What I want to get straight then, if he’s going to be subbing
with you, is this going to be added into your cost or do we have
to make a motion to say, this is going to be an extra $2000.00 that
we’re going to pay out here. In other words, is this going to be
another change of scope to your work. Mr. Malesker said it is
going to be a change, he’s going to be a sub to us. Because he is
actually already, we don’t have the paper work done yet, but
he is still working because the work needs to be done. So he
hasn’t, we don’t have that finalized, we’re waiting on some
paperwork. Councilman Allar said between you and Jake, I just
hope you don’t for administration purposes take 20% of the money.
Mr. Malesker said no. Councilman Snyder said yeah, that’s what
I was trying to get at, that we can see that, that he can get this,
that its getting to him, that we either see this under your scope
of work, an extra. The secretary asked are you saying C. S. Davidson
going to bill us or is Jake going to bill us? Councilman Snyder said
that’s what I’m trying to get at. Councilman Allar said it’s a pass
through use of time, Davidson is going to set it up and not disturb
his time. The secretary said so its going to be billed through C.S.
Davidson, not on Jake’s own personal. Mr. Malesker said what I
can do is attach his office, actually what be on our invoice, would
be payment to his firm ECCO Construction, that would be actually
on our. The secretary asked so I would send the check to C. S.
Davidson or ECCO Construction. Mr. Malesker said C. S. Davidson.
That’s what we wanted. Councilman Snyder said then we really don’t
need to make a motion then, its going to be part of the scope. Councilman
Allar said the motion is $2000.00 to C. S. Davidson. Councilman
Snyder said its an understanding. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said its
going to be earmarked for him, period. Councilman Allar said also so
everyone knows, besides all the work he’s doing with the Corps of
Engineers, and the Cora Brooks grant, he’s also looking for other grants.
If that falls through, then again we have to match, with our $15,000.00
Growing Greener. Maybe we’ll get Cora Brooks, maybe we won’t
get $15,000.00. So he’s also has some leads on some other grants and
that will be for free. Councilman Noll said at sometime, would it be
appropriate to give him some kind of letter from the municipality,
whatever we do. Councilman Allar said he’s on a grant, and we need
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
to write letters to the granting authority. Support his work. Councilman
Noll said that is what I said, if there is a letter we can send to someone,
I would support doing something like that. Councilman Allar said
anytime someone wants to draft something up. The secretary said
somebody write it up and I’ll type it up.
Park Mr. Malesker said has the park lighting, anything. Councilman Allar
Lighting said I was going to wait until next month because Dave is not
here. It was his concern, I think he was talking for himself and I think
he may have been talking to other people down there. Councilwoman
Coble Tyson said the lighting that was affecting his property. Councilman
Noll said and I think Dana was looking into some timers. Councilman
Allar said why don’t we just table that, but it on your list. Mr. Malesker
said okay I’ll leave that on there.
Water Mr. Malesker said the last thing I had on here were the water issues on
Issues S. Main and we already addressed that.
Councilman Snyder said anything for the engineer?
Councilman Allar asked Sam can we quickly move, I know Wendy has to leave here,
I want to go over the survey. Councilman Snyder said okay thanks for coming tonight.
The secretary said I will see you Friday, I’ll be down here at eight. Mr. Malesker
said okay.
Unfinished Business
Compre- Councilman Allar said with the comprehensive plan we had to
hensive do a community survey, which I think is probably a good thing to
Plan do anyway to know what the citizens are thinking. The first one
Survey that was ever done. Want it to get into the record into the minutes
because it’s the only way the citizens will have access. The
secretary asked if the copies were passed out, Councilman Allar
said I was going to read from them, then pass them out. The
secretary said sorry. Real quick here. It runs across the gambit of
people living in the borough five years or less, 27%. Five to ten
years 27%, eleven to nineteen years 11% and over twenty years,
35%. We had roughly had a nine to ten percent response. Which
sounds low, except when you think, or understand that half of the
town is rental properties. So half of the town is only here a year
or two and then they’re gone. So when you look at the survey,
not too many responses. So the response rate is probably closer
to twenty percent. The citizens were represented of all the
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 37
age groups. The top three were over 65, the next group was 30 to 39 and
the next was 40 to 49. Everyone had worked outside the borough except
for two people. The likes and dislikes, rating what you like about Yoe,
what you dislike, the top five likes from highest to lowest: fire protection,
schools, convenience to shopping, convenience to work and housing costs.
The top five dislikes in order from highest to lowest: I’m going to give
you all this in writing: tax rates, traffic, law enforcement services,
attractiveness of the area and road surface condition. In your opinion,
which of the economic opportunities are most needed in the tri borough
area. The top five in order of importance are: grocery store, professional
office, dry cleaner/hair salon/similar personal services, specialty retail
such as jewelry or antiques, and five coffee shop. In your opinion in
other words a lot of people don’t have autos, they like to do some things
locally they like to walk to some things, of course there are caveats with
parking and stuff like, they were simply asked the question what kind
of activities do you need. In your opinion what of the following the
most serious housing issues in your borough, the top five are: 1.
availability of rental housing. Now I made a note on here, this should
be looked upon as a negative, not saying that there isn’t enough
rental housing, they’re saying there is too much. But the way the
question is worded, they checked that as their number one choice, but
and when I get to the comments here, its going to be clearer. The
next is home maintenance costs being high, availability of housing
for handicapped senior citizens, housing affordability and the last one
is availability of housing for people working in the tri borough area.
In your opinion which of the following quality of life issues are the
most important to you, the top five quality of life issues in importance
from highest to lowest: small town lifestyle, attractive town, good schools,
emergency services and easy access to shopping. The top five quality
of life issues that are currently being met: good schools, emergency
services, small town lifestyle, easy access to shopping and public
services. In your opinion which of following planning issues in the
tri borough area are the most important. The top five planning issues
from highest to lowest: Road improvements, public safety(meaning
police), borough revitalization, truck traffic and reuse of vacant
residential/industrial buildings. Would you support coming or
sharing the following municipal service in order to improve efficiency
and minimize potential future tax increases? The top five on combing
or sharing from highest to lowest: purchasing equipment, sanitation,
borough administration, maintenance and sharing of existing equipment.
Last question had to do with making any comments that they wanted to
ask. Another interesting thing is that 70% of respondents took the trouble
to write out comments, which shows a little bit of interest. It shows
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 38
taking the time. These 70% in talking to the consultant seem to be
high. A large number felt that drugs and crime in general, together
with high taxes and traffic, maintenance in the tri borough area.
The other major issue that was commented on was that the poor
appearance of the properties in Yoe, some believe that this is
because of the high rental properties in Yoe and not maintained.
You get the flavor here. Let me just read the comments that
people wrote here. These are people’s perspectives. You may agree
with them, you may not agree with them. They are what they are.
If you agree with these perspectives, these are areas that we should
focus, these are areas we should start fixing. If we don’t agree with
these perspectives then we are not doing a very good job of
communicating what the truth is. I’ll just pull these off, and read
some. First priority, for Yoe Borough is enforcing laws and rules,
on the books, concerning property conditions. Why would anyone
want to move into the town after just a simple drive through. First
impressions are the lasting ones. Landlords and tenants have to be
brought under control. With all the new homes and increased
traffic in alleys, AKA Gay Street, I don’t even know where that
is. There should be something done with the road surface, new
people moving in are using the road as a drag track. Many children
use this alley, I’m afraid someone will get hurt. I’ve got a drug
house down the street and the cops do nothing about it. They cause
problems all the time. I’m always afraid the kids breaking into
my house, I’ve had issues. They live on Yoe hill. Now when I read
this, I thought this was like a sixty year old/ninety year old grandmother.
That sees two kids outside. Then I look out front where you have
your numbers of your household and your ages. Two people ages,
20 to 25. This one reads like this person is actually scared living in
Yoe, who owns their house. The area of Yoe at the square is a big
eyesore. Hard to believe that the mayor and the council allow this
to exist. The sidewalks, wild grass growing and the condition of
several houses, you begin to wonder if they care. There is evidence
of drug dealing in our community, are officials and police aware and
anything being done. That’s one. There are properties that look like
dumps, is there anything being done to clean up these places. West
Broad Street, is heavily trafficked and vehicles often speed and refuse
to give way to other vehicles on this narrow street. Residents cars have
been frequently damaged. I assume this person lives on Broad Street.
The law enforcement needs to get serious about drugs and gang problems
in Yoe Borough. With all due respect, you all need to get your priorities
in order, we need an emergency meeting to address the ever increasing
drug and gang problems. I’m speaking of Yoe Borough because this is
where I live. None of these issues matter unless law enforcement
Unfinished Business (cont.) Page 39
begins doing their job. There will be no communities that are in shape,
the drug dealers will do the job for us. I know these problems are not
inclusive to Yoe Borough alone, drug and gang problems are also
probably in Dallastown, Red Lion and Windsor. And in addition,
to get involved, if it gets worse, to legally purchase guns and ammunition
are being purchased. Again law enforcement is non existent, you call
and they do nothing. There is a comment about the mayor which I’m
not going to read. The borough looks like a slum, Main Street is a
disgrace. Too many rental, Yoe looks like a trailer park. Junk all over
inside and out. We need to be more proactive. Some other personal
comments. I hate to say it but you all need to walk around, and see
what blight and eyesore Yoe has become. Another comment about
the mayor. Yoe is called little York. Get our borough members to
get up a neighborhood watch. I’m skipping over some of this stuff.
Address run down houses in Yoe Borough, many houses their yards
are a mess. Safety for our children, grandchildren at play. More
off street parking. Main Street overcrowding, policing drug dealing
and burglaries, reuse of vacant space. We need to develop a community
in Yoe to support itself in the services which provide, that do not
have the municipalities at a loss. Yoe, people who live on Main
Street, need to pull their weeds along the sidewalk. Need to be kept
up. Houses look bad on the outside, Main Street looks terrible.
Unfortunately for Yoe, there is no room left for any new businesses.
There is no parking for customers. More people would fix up their
homes if code enforcement left them alone, and drop their related
fees. Renters don’t take care of their property. Too many rental
properties in Yoe, they have a blight on our town. They’re plenty
of rec options available I can’t see spending everyone’s tax money
local or federal on more rec. Fix the roads, fix the sidewalks, fix
the bridges etc. I don’t really know but keep control of out of
control rentals, that ruin small town appeal. I would love to buy
a house here, but the prices are high. Stop urban squalor, stop
rentals, control traffic, consolidate tri borough services, downtown
small business. The mayor and council should walk the town
from time to time, by looking and talking to people, they will know
know how bad crime is, and the looks of the town which are bad.
Need borough revitalization, more small business. Elected officials
don’t communicate enough with citizens, what happened to the
newsletter why can’t one be mailed like Dallastown does. Another
comment about the mayor. While efforts are trying to be made to
improve the tri borough area, the area seems to be declining, due
to some low income housing, a certain percentage is retired. But
its not the kind of community that I want. I feel there are too many
rental properties in the tri borough area, people that get into rental
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 40
properties possibly bring trouble along with them, i.e. drugs.
There are good people around, but trouble hangs around as well.
More strict enforcement of properties, and for what can be stored
in the open around their premises. This gives you a feel of what
some of the people are thinking, there is a certain pattern. So
its food for thought. More to come. Councilman Myers said
some interesting comments. Councilman Allar said it comes
to better communication, I was going to talk about the newsletter.
Like I say I think there are good people out there, that want to
help and so on, but we don’t do anything on a outreach, we don’t
try to reach them. There is limit on what we can fix, certainly
about the appearance of the town. I think with proper ordinances,
and proper enforcement. Councilman Noll said I think that could
be a top priority for the comp plan. Councilman Allar said there
are things like that, that we can do now without the comp plan.
Apparently is there is a lot more drug activity going on in this
town than we know about. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said
I can vouch for a whole a lot, , I go out in the night, the
middle of the night, I’m tired of it. I plan on heading something
up, I’m going to be something whether you like me or not.
I’m going to do something. Councilman Myers said but in case
there are people like that, that do that, that’s the problem.
Councilwoman Coble Tyson said I’m saying on the record now,
I’m hard pressed and I’m going to be pushing on a neighborhood
watch, I’m only here a month you know. But in talking with some
of the people, some of the neighbors, some of the new people
who are moving in, yes there is a concern, its just getting a team
together to work, cause I certainly can’t do it alone. Have a lot
on my plate. Councilman Allar said some of things and maybe its
going to take a neighborhood watch, some where we can dialogue
with a lieutenant or sergeant that might be responsible for this
area. Some things that have been told me, again I wish John
was here, again I thought he was going to be, but when police
show up, more often than not, nothing really happens, there is
no follow up. One person told me, their property was trespassed
on four times by the same person and the police knew who it
was and talk to the person and yeah, had to go through it again.
And I talked to the officer and he said well don’t worry the next
time we’re going to arrest him. I don’t understand that. There also
is no follow up,when the police respond, the home owner doesn’t
know what happened. Nothing comes back to say, we cited this
guy, its still under investigation, just don’t complete the circle
on any of this stuff. Home owner is out there, thinking I’ve been
blown off, no one cares. Councilman Noll said that’s extremely
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 41
typical of any police agency. You as a home owner you have to
go and seek the reports. Councilman Allar said but I’m not so
sure if we go to the like I say, have maybe somewhat a semi-
dedicated lieutenant or sergeant and couldn’t work out some
better communication. Councilman Snyder said well I wonder,
none of that, except maybe as many people say about the drug
activity, none that surprises me. I mean a lot of it we’ve been
saying ourselves. We know the sidewalks are an issue. We know
people properties have been an issue. That’s exactly why the property
maintenance code came about five years ago. Councilman Allar
said it doesn’t deal with the appearance, that’s the problem what
someone in the home can see. Councilman Snyder said yes, that
was one thing that I advocated five years, the only thing that I would
disagree with, and I said that five years, I don’t think it’s a property
problem with rental problems, because those people for the most
part maintain them, overall, there is a couple down by Tom that
lack some good appearance but overall the rental properties look
half decent on the outside. The ones that look rough I can name
five or six right on Main Street, are private property owners. I mean
the one next to me, I won’t say what it looks like. Its an abomination.
There’s a couple by Newton Alley, an abomination, 210 South Main
Street, we have constantly sent notices to and every year it’s the
same, and I could go on and on and they are private property owners.
So that’s wide spread than just rental properties. Councilwoman Coble
Tyson said to come to their defense, for people who are not here
to speak for themselves, are they elders, are they people on fixed
incomes or are they single like me. Its taking me twenty years of living
in this borough, to finally to be able, afford a re fi to get new windows
in my home. I’m a single parent, and now I’m a single grandparent
raising my grandson which is another issue. Something needs to be
done about this drug stuff and the people running up and down, doing
whatever they do all night long. Councilman Snyder said and that’s
where, and that’s exactly where people. Councilwoman Coble Tyson
said people are living on a limited income. Councilman Snyder said
exactly and that’s where, and that’s my people next door, those people
should never been in a house. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said
I work sixty hours a week, what more can I do. Councilman Snyder
said and that is one thing Pete said, when it gets the private property
owner, you can’t dictate squalor. That’s one thing that we fought with.
Councilwoman Coble Tyson said you want to keep it clean, you don’t
want rodents and so forth on the outside but sometimes its an economical
reason so what are you going to do. You want to penalize others that are
living on a fixed income. Councilman Noll said we do have to look at
your ordinance at point, Sam’s very right that, you can do on the health
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 42
and safety side, grass can only be so high but it when comes to I don’t
think your house is painted right. You get the judgment. Councilman
Snyder said that’s the problem. Councilwoman Coble Tyson said
it’s a free choice. Councilman Snyder said and that’s where we are
going to tighten up like one of the changes that we have in the ordinance
is the new vector ordinance, so people who constantly keep garbage
cans or garbage bags, sofa that, there is no reason you have to have
a sofa sitting on the front porch especially for three months at a time.
Like 210 S. Main street, where the porch is falling in, literally falling
in, the vector ordinance that we propose the changes on, we’ll be able
to go after them because it is harboring rodents and that becomes a
health and safety issue at that point. The issue like a couple doors down
from Tom, Gary Smith’s property which is a rental property. It looks
like crap, with the weeds. And it needs painted, except for the roof of
the porch, there’s not hardly anything else that we can go after, under
our existing ordinance, that’s the sad part. Councilman Allar said that’s
the key, so, maybe be looking at what other ones are doing, maybe
we aren’t putting in the right wording. Councilman Snyder said that’s
what we have to look at, see what else is out there. And start and I said
this five years ago, back before we tried rental property, we need to
enforce the ordinances we got, I think once I just sent an email out
to Keystate this month to find out where our updated copy is so we
can start working on that, and he said they’ll be getting on that. Once
we can start working on that, we can go from there. Councilman Allar
asked does anyone know that the Manchester Township Zoning
Manual was on my chair? Councilman Noll said you wanted to see
some of the municipalities, Manchester, York Township and I
think its Springettsbury. Councilman Snyder said as far as with
the police, I know I have run into the same problem. I don’t know,
maybe that’s going to need to be a sit down between some council
members, the mayor and like Chief Gross. I know a lot of times,
what I’ve gotten from the police, is their frustration with the entire
judicial system. I’ve already called as President of Council that
kids were throwing rocks, you could hear them hitting the roof
of the porch at the pavilion, I walked up saw three kids up there,
knew who they were, called the police, they came down, investigated
went up and talked to them. But did you actually seen them throw
the rock? Councilman Snyder said no, I heard it, I walked up, they
were the only three kids around. And he as much as told me, he
can not get a conviction on that, I’ll go up and take them to their
parents and tell them. And that’s what happened. And this was brought
up once before, with drug activity, when Joanie Schaull, the police said
then, in order to get drug convictions, its not just not as simple as
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 43
saying yeah I saw him pass. Because well how do you know what he
passed was actually cocaine, how do you know it wasn’t soap, unless
its tested. Literally their investigations take months. I think that’s
where a lot of these people, I don’t doubt what they are saying, they’re
seeing this and there’s drug activity out there. I think we need to know
what can we do, to move this process along. Councilman Allar said
there’s got to be a way to take what we’ve just said and boil down to
something that we can communicate with. Whether its in a newsletter,
some comments by the mayor perhaps, or a newsletter, neighborhood
visit with the police, the police to talk to these people, there’s got to
be a better communication. Otherwise you leave a citizen frustrated,
they think that no one is doing anything. Councilman Snyder said
exactly. And that’s where its at. Councilman Allar said either the
perception is true, or we have to do better communication. Councilman
Snyder said unfortunately to have the police say, well an investigation
takes months. I mean, that doesn’t fly, we had the same problem with
those two gentlemen that came here talking about speeding on Broad
Street. And we say, well we’ll put out extra details, and this is why
we can’t put in a speed bump. Well you know how that went. Cause
you took the brunt of that one, cause you live on Broad Street and you
were telling me about it. Councilman Noll said it is going to be
difficult but to solve a lot of these problems, means greater police,
greater police means great money. People are already upset that their
taxes are too high. But we should have 3 to 4 times the force we do,
which means 3 to 4 times the money we don’t have. That is part of
the bias in the way that they look at how many administrative hours
they have to what they do in Yoe. Councilman Allar said again I’m
not really sure that we really need more police. I just think with the
difficulties that they’re having someway that there is someway that
the citizens can understand that, then they would be satisfied when
they see any action right away. They don’t know that, they don’t
understand that. Councilman Snyder said and maybe what we need,
that sit down with the police. All we really maybe need, is more
press exposure, when they have those arrests, drug bust in Yoe
Borough. Vandalism bust in Yoe Borough. And we get it publicized
that yeah they’re doing stuff behind the scenes. Maybe that is what
we need, like you said we don’t hear what the follow up is. I mean
someone may call I saw them dealing drugs out of this house.
Right away they say how do you know its drugs. You know and I
know its drugs but they have to do their thing to prove it in a court
of law. So maybe a year down the road, is when they finally do
their drug bust but that doesn’t ever makes it. You see in these
police reports, two felony arrests. What were those felony arrests,
if we get that stuff out there and get more detail in that respect.
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 44
Maybe we can communicate that then. Councilman Allar said
I think we all need to know too, what all is going on. What is
going done, we aren’t getting these things. I know the police
had it, they keep it, they have to keep it for their own intelligence,
dispatch people. Councilman Snyder said John was suppose to
be getting a comparison together wasn’t he? With last years
figures. Councilman Noll said he told us before what the call
rates were, what they were for, he hasn’t shown us one for awhile.
For the whole year, this type of call. The secretary said in here
is everything that happened in Yoe for the month of December.
Councilman Snyder said he was suppose to be tabulating that
for the entire year. Councilman Allar said well that is good, I know
its out there. Councilman Snyder said but know those figures are
skewed because if calls are down, just like that doesn’t mean,
calls may be up but arrests are down. Well that doesn’t account
for ongoing investigation that. There is going to be that fluctuation.
Councilman Noll said I agree with you, we should sit down with
the police but understand I do this type of stuff. for apartment
complexes, 250 kids, twelve to eighteen months later finally
getting to court, for stuff, that we found in their rounds, while
they were there, lit up, took pictures, we had police there doing
drugs with them. It still takes a lot of time and there is a lot of
follow up so. I don’t know how to communicate that to our
electorate to our. Its like anything else. The secretary said in
December there was PSA violation, natural death on W.
Walnut, DUI arrest on S. Elm., on Fourth Street a snowball
thrown at a car for D. C. Councilman Myers said the problem
is, and you said you’d get it out in the newspaper, the problem
is, the newspaper is only going to put the good stuff. Cause
we had the same problems at work. Then that is why all of
sudden we had a big press release, and you saw what we did
at the park and we hammered a lot of people. A lot of
the things behind the scene, but it took awhile to get to that
point. And. Councilman Allar said the vandalism up at the
park that was in the newspaper. Councilman Myers said
it all depends. Councilman Snyder said I don’t think that
they even put in yet what I gave them from last month’s
meeting. Councilman Allar said again you work with Joli
Harrington. Communications was better when we talked
to contact the staff writer, someone with a by line with
the paper. Councilman Snyder said I think at this point, it
was good information, I think we got some good feedback.
We can get the ordinances back we can go from there, to
start actually enforcing them. With the sidewalks, and the
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 45
way the property looks and the way Main Street looks is
hopefully going to be taken care when we do the H2O
work and we have all new sidewalks going up through
town. With the crime and stuff, that I think we need to have
a sit down with the police and say here’s what the concern
is, we know what your issues are, cause we deal with you.
Let’s come to a conclusion, how do you recommend we do
this, here’s my idea, lets start publizing some of these arrests.
And that get that information out, but see what the police have
to say though. Because maybe the police have some ideas.
Councilman Noll said the only thing we can do is ask, the
police very specifically are there ordinances that we can have
on our books that can help you do your job. Councilman
Snyder said yeah. Councilman Allar said definitely. Councilman
Noll said because York Township especially has a lot of things
to say. Councilman Snyder said interesting as we’re discussing
that, I was going to bring it up under Mayor’s Report which is
why I said this whole agenda got messed up tonight. There’s
a complaint by a Mrs. Brubaker, I’m assuming,she lives.
The secretary said she lives across from the fire station. Councilman
Snyder said she lives across from the fire station, evidently
she called the police, there was loud drumming noise it stopped
for awhile but then it started back up and police failed to respond.
Councilman Myers said its behind the fire company. They have
there own little thing back there. Councilman Snyder said so she
is making an official complaint to council. Councilman Myers said
its behind the fire company. Councilman Snyder said so she is
making an official complaint about the noise. Now our noise
ordinance is in affect, she’s already given it to Dan Shaw.
The secretary said no, I just got it tonight. Councilman Myers
said its that loud, I tell you we sit in conference room to try to
have a meeting and its like having radio inside. Its cranking.
Councilman Noll said I think put that in file, get with John,
have whomever wants to come to the meeting and have a sit
down with the police and talk about these issues, that’s the
next step. Councilman Snyder said she was going to call him
about that anyways, cause that was a complaint. I’ll let him
know, I can tell him that this was brought up, we have issues
with the police. Councilman Allar asked did he say why he
wasn’t here tonight. Councilman Snyder said some authority
figure up at the school, called in because they were sick, there
was a function going on at the high school, I guess a basketball
game and with the snow predicted they had to have an official
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 46
on site. Councilman Allar said so I’m just telling you, he expressed
interest in this a couple months back, really did not want to
do it without him being here, but. Councilman Snyder said you
held it off last month too. Councilman Allar said last month
I was going to do it, so. Councilman Snyder said I’ll let him
know, I have to talk to him about what is going on up there.
Councilman Allar said if he wants to get these, before, have
him give me a call. If he wants to look at these.
Councilman Allar said another item, I guess what I’m going to
say is new business.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Mayor and Police Report
Councilman Snyder said no report.
Secretary’s Report
Audit The secretary said Stambaugh Ness will be here February 5 and 8th to
complete the yearly audit required by DCED.
Liquid The secretary reported audit report for Liquid Fuels for the years
Fuels 2007 and 2008 from the Auditor General’s office was received with
Audit no defencies.
Park The secretary said did we set dates for the park, you said you
Open want to have this dedication. I suggest last Saturday of April
House/ or first Saturday of May. Councilman Noll said I guess we have
Dedication to figure out what we want to do. The secretary said I was wondering
maybe the fire company/auxiliary, have a hot dog and soda, we
would pay for it and call Bricker’s French Fries and have Bobs
Snow balls. Those would be paid but the hot dog and soda could
be paid by us for everybody. Maybe get some clowns or something
up there for the kids. Then have a time and date for a dedication.
Councilman Myers said what dates. The secretary said the last
Secretary’s Report (cont.) Page 47
Saturday in April or first Saturday of May. Councilman Myers said
the last Saturday, would be the fire company’s appreciation dinner.
The secretary said my concern would be the May Day at the elementary
schools, that is why I said the last Saturday of April. Councilman
Noll said one date when there are a lot of people there is the
Easter egg hunt. The secretary said that is the first weekend of April.
Councilman Noll said I want to do something, but I keep wracking
my brain, I wonder if people would show up. The secretary said
we could fliers, have ADR hand them out. I just think if you are
going to do something soon, you need to set a date for Gail.
I was trying something to draw the people, maybe a free soda
and hot dog available. Dana and I have suggestion and nobody
might like it, but we’ve been talking about changing the name
of the park to the Ronald C. Crull Memorial Park. It is a suggestion
by us, its not to degrade anybody, but we think with all the years
that he was here, that he had given to the borough. Including he
worked on the basketball court and he was active in fire company
and a business man. That is all I have. Councilman Noll said I think
if we want to do something like that, its just hitting me, I’m not saying
one way or the other, if there is a stipulation. Want to think about that
over the month. Councilman Myers said in the agreement the land was
donated, there was an agreement, I don’t know if there was any
stipulation. Councilman Snyder said that is probably where the name
came from, its actually called the Victor L. Herbert Memorial Park,
I think that was because it was donated from the Citizens Band of
Yoe. Now who Victor Herbert was I don’t know. The secretary said
you can let me know, I can make calls and I’ll be there. But I do
think you need have a rain date because you don’t want to put a lot
of effort in, for one hundred people, say it rains. Councilman Snyder
asked doesn’t the fire company’s auxiliary have a sub sale or
something. Councilman Myers said from time to time, the ladies
auxiliary there is only three women, its nothing big. Whenever we
have any functions anymore,its been like for about the last ten years.
Councilman Snyder said I was just thinking who else has something
that we could tie into it, to know that you’re going to get people up
there. Like the church I know they use to have May Day. The
secretary said they don’t. The secretary said about connecting it
with free yard sale dates. Councilman Myers said we use to do that
block party, the fire company would have the whole part and did
it, that is about thirty years, it just died. We had all kinds of stuff.
The secretary said if you just wanted to have a dedication you do
that too. Councilman Noll said yeah I’d love to do something but
honestly I’m so buried right now. I have five thousand people
Secretary’s Report (cont.) Page 48
coming too, it’s the 100th anniversary of the Boy Scouts.
Councilman Myers said it would be nice to invite important
people who supported the park. Councilman Snyder said like
Mike Waugh, C. S. Davidson people, the Kinsley people.
The secretary said maybe you would want to do it in the fall.
Councilman Noll said let me think about it, with everything
else. Councilman Myers said there’s a thought, depends when
you do it in fall, with fire prevention, we always do something
at the station, we could it up at the park. And then combine
everything. The secretary said we usually have free yard sale
around Labor Day weekend, but people may go away then.
Code Books Councilman Noll said very quickly for everybody, Sandy
asked if we could get the new code books, we have the 2009
residential code books and the 2009 international building
code books if anyone needs to look at it. And we also have
the ANCI which is all the handicapped along with the eminent
domain law we have a copy of that. We would also possibly
thinking of that.
Document Councilman Noll said one thing when you have your audit
Recovery the Document Recovery Plan is something that they are
Plan requiring by law. Ask the audit on that, has to deal with
all our documents, if someone decides to light our building
on fire, we lost all our documents. The secretary said
we discussed that with them, I just lost my computer to
a virus. Dana opened up the computer Friday morning I
wasn’t even here yet and virus flew in. And suppose there
are some bad ones going around that are attaching to
emails from what I understand. So I have Dataware coming,
which is a sister of Imageware because SEK they are the ones
that got the computer, the computer with stuff downloaded
in it, all they had to do is download Quick Books. So I really
don’t whats in the computer, I had no guidance in it, so I
called Dataware and they are coming tomorrow. Councilman
Myers said do you back up to a hard drive. The secretary said
we back up Quick Books, that’s it. Councilman Noll said
at some point, its going to cost us some money. We talked to
Stambaugh Ness about that and they have a scanning system
that does that, its quite costly. Councilman Snyder said ironically
that is something Todd Bowser brought up when he was
seating in your chair about a document through a scan, to scan
the old documents in, that was one thing that he had brought up
and he was getting prices and stuff, then there is some warehouse
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 49
that actually housed everything off site. Councilman Myers
said there are companies that can house your things online.
The secretary said I think , we may have to check into some
of this stuff. Councilman Snyder said that’s what happens
we have all these great ideas, just to find out, everything
always takes money, in that particular instance what I found
was, I think he gave us a quote of $17,000.00 to $18, 000.00,
it was a pretty hefty price. What I found the state has a grant,
I could have got us a grant of $10,000.00 that means you have
to come up with $8000.00. Up at the state Historical Commission,
they have grants to do exactly that, digitized, such as minutes,
for municipalities so you don’t lose them, its $10,000.00. Councilman
Allar asked is it still available. Councilman Snyder said its still
available. At that time he was coming with $18,000.00 you have
to come up with the $8000.00 figure. Councilman Myers said its
almost a matching grant. Councilman Snyder said yeah. Councilman
Noll said I think its something we should think about because
we may lose all our records from 1893. Councilman Myers
said we had that happen to the fire company, we didn’t have a fire,
we had a member for many many years, he had all the minutes
which we didn’t know, from 1899 early 1900 in the back of his
company car. Well guess what, the car got broken into and they
took everything. The secretary asked has York Township done that.
Councilman Noll said they scan them. The secretary said that is
what Stambaugh Ness is suggesting where you scan them so much
per page. Councilman Noll said what we need to look at what is
the cost of a decent scanner be and have someone come in and
scan. Temp agency or something like that, just a thought. Make
sure that there is a written plan that we have to have, for audit,
for what we do to justify. Something we really think about.
The secretary said that may be a question that they ask on
the DCED audit questions. I will thanks.
2% Councilman Noll said the tax distribution fees, York County.
Distribution One thing that we’re not 100% aware of, Springettsbury looked
Fees at the agreement, and they can technically charge up to 6%.
They decided whatever, there is not much we can do about
it. The secretary said I talked to the auditors about it, there
not totally sure how the York Tax Bureau gets their money
to survive, but he said they had a lot of their money invested.
And they were living off the investment income, for many
things in the bureau, when the economy went down, that is
why this came up, because they had to get money in there.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 50
That is how they are recovering from their investment loss.
Just like everybody else. From what I’m reading about it,
we don’t have a rep that is going there, nobody reported
to us about it, no one was not aware. Councilman Noll said
most municipalities didn’t know about it to well after
budget season so, for us it is a hint, for some it is $30,000.00
to $40,000.00. When you think about the kinds of money
that York Township brings in, 2$ is gone. Councilman Myers
said so they are taking a percentage of the tax dollar. Councilman
Noll said yes. The secretary said your allotment, even if its
$200.00 they are taking $4.00. Councilman Noll said I’ll
follow up on it, but Springettsbury is taking the lead on it.
I plan to find out, if there is way to stop the 2%, with the
6 that was in agreement from forty years ago.
Alternate Councilman Snyder said when we are talking about our tax
and Rep authority. we are asked to have two representatives for the TCC
TCC which is the Tax Collection Committee, Act 32 requires it,
this is different than the representative and the alternate to the
taxing authority. So my idea to have the same two people for
our representative and alternate for York County Tax Collection
Committee. A motion was made by Councilman Myers to
appoint our two representatives as representatives to that
committee. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Councilman Allar said who was it? Councilman Snyder said
it was Wendy and George.
Ethics Councilman Snyder said everyone received a notice about the
Report ethics statements that need to filed by May. There was a note
on there, that she would also sent out to C. S. Davidson and
Pete, questions were for Code Administrators and Stambaugh
Ness. Yes they need to sent along with Dan Shaw and the
members of our zoning hearing board.
Bank Councilman Snyder said we also received from the treasurer
Statements the balance sheet as of December 31, 2009 along with statements
and Balance from Citizens Bank and Members First showing all the deposits
Sheet and accounts in those and how they reflect on the balance sheet,
that is ongoing relation with a note that was given to us by
the audit from two or three years ago as far as checks and balances.
The secretary said when they ask that question I can answer that
property. Councilman Snyder said right and that is why I mention
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 51
it in the minutes. The secretary said thank you. Councilman
Snyder said so they can see it in the minutes. Now its your job,
to make sure they have any questions.
Unfinished Business
Councilman Snyder asked anything else?
New Business
Communi- Councilman Allar said we talked about communications, in your
cations packet there was an email from Ryan Sanders of the Red Lion
Business Association. I’m working with him, the business
association is not just for Red Lion, to do more with the other
two boroughs. What he is doing here, he is trying to arrange
with the Weekly Record, while we focus on the borough , we
would like something historical on an event, include pictures.
Start thinking of something you’d like to include for Yoe.
We’ve already talked about several of them tonight. The
activities that Seth is talking about dedication at the park,
borough managers meetings that he was talking about. If
we want publicity it would be a good way of getting it. They
already set it up all we have to do is give him the info.
Weekly There is a history in here from Dallastown, we have a better
Record history than that, we look up, we could put it in there, get
a little good press. Get Yoe on the map a little bit. They
already have it set up with the Weekly Record insert, they
are looking at things, they are looking at activities. If
you look at your minutes, that is the guy and I’ve already
talked to him and set this up. Anything you want that has
some effectiveness to it, your borough managers meeting
for example. Any dedications, we could put that in the
insert.
Newsletter Councilman Allar said the other thing is the borough newsletter,
I already have someone lined up that is willing to do it. I’m
going to have that person come in next month, she’s going
to take a look at the newsletter from Dallastown and York
Township, I want to get a disc from Bruce as what we’ve
been doing in the past to give her some ideas. The only thing
with the newsletter at least this is what Bruce says, is that
it breaks down because he doesn’t get the input. Whomever
writes up and gets it to Sandy and we have deadlines, and
New Business Page 52
everyone responds and meets those deadlines. Then there
shouldn’t be a problem. If we make it a problem for whomever is
doing it, its going to fail, not going to be calling people, she
gets frustrated and there goes the newsletter. So unless some
sort of committee, I think there is a lot of things if we stop and
think about it. Dallastown newsletter for example there all kinds
of police programs, mentioned in there that I never knew about.
I’m sure the citizens of Yoe don’t know about it. I mean right
there is a good half of page. Fire company may have something,
Dana may have something, zoning will certainly have something,
code enforcement will certainly have something. all this stuff
to come together. We’re only going to do this maybe once or
twice a year. We just have to make sure that we are timely
about there. Certainly the park. There’s two good ways that
we can get Yoe Borough on the map and start communicating
with the citizens.
Grants Councilman Allar said we talk about money, there are grants out
there. Two years I brought to this table a proposal to bring on
Grant a grant writer. Twenty hours a week for free, and we picked at
Writer for six months until the people told me, they can’t hold the
federal money and a borough in Adams saw the opportunity
and grabbed it. Even with the worst luck in the world in submitting
one or two grants a week, we would have hit something. We lost
thousands, tens of thousands of dollars. That opportunity is gone.
Here I give you another, I am working with York College, I’m
working with the Dean and I’m working with some of department
heads, they are interested in giving us an intern to do the grant
writing. Now I haven’t worked out all the details yet. It won’t
be good as the last one, in a couple ways, one, the last one
would have been in depth, a year to two years, this is going to
be tied to the semester. End of semester its probably going to
go away. So we are going to have work on it quickly because
we’re only going to have a few months. Also the last guy was
a professional technical writer, he was contracted with the
federal government for thirty years, this is a student. Its going
to be a little bit of a learning curve, I’m not going to expect
the kind of production like the other guy. So these things are
going to be different. There may be some money involved I
don’t know yet, we may have to set up a work station here in
the office, for Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings. I see
certain structure connected with this, point of contact for
the individual, having weekly phone conversations or personal
New Business (cont.) Page 53
contact,I see the person coming to the council meeting reporting
on the status, submitting, getting new guidance, redirection all
these things. I would probably want to focus on private foundations,
and corporations. Federal money except the stimulus money, and
state is gone. Like the grant you said, we need $8000.00 maybe
a thousand with this foundation, three thousand from that foundation,
we can get some of that stuff done. That’s how you put it together.
Foundations are great because with their investment portfolio,
they have to give it away, that is how its set, the benefactor sets
it up that way. So, that money is still available there. So all I want
now all I want is some idea, I don’t mind spending the time, I just
don’t want to waste the time to find out that there is not 100%
perfect and then someone objects and we lose another opportunity
here. Councilman Noll said I think its worth looking into, normally
this happens a lot, in York City, when we get certain park and things,
we’ll use that as a certain internship. Councilman Allar said if it
works, both sides have to be happy. And that’s why we need to
make it easy and make sure the person doesn’t get frustrated and
so forth. The next step would be, a position description and I can
do that, it has to go before the intern board, they are going to have
approve it. I already have the professor lining up students to do
the work. Councilman Noll said you’ve got students to do the work,
basically when you have it set up, you have a grading professor
at the college to provide the work. Councilman Allar said we may
have to put up a computer station or something. Councilman Noll
said a lot of that I think could actually be done at the college.
Councilman Allar said I have to find out what the issues are.
Councilman Snyder said I don’t have a problem with it, the issues
that came up with the last one, there were hidden issues that came up addressed by Pete. This person is going to be considered an
employee, then it became that if they were working here they had
to be insurable, then it was he was going to be working on our
behalf at his house. Then it became an insurance issue of what
happens if he gets hurt at his house on the job. At this point I
don’t have problem with it, lets go after it, however, that’s not
saying, as an intern they are going to be employed by you that
raises other questions that needs to be addressed. Councilman
Noll said they normally don’t do it like that. Councilman Snyder
said that’s what I’m saying, they’re the ones that came to us,
we need you to sign this paper, and we said fine, we said fine
we’ll sign it, get this this and this, and then they’re the ones
that changed the scope on us. Councilman Noll said you’re talking
about the last one. Councilman Snyder said the last people.
New Business(cont.) Page 54
That’s what I’m saying and the other thing. Councilman Allar
said but you are not being about fair about it. Councilman
Snyder said I’m saying for it, I’m don’t want to say right
now, my head’s against it, but you’re saying I don’t want
to have stonewall at the very end. And I’m saying I don’t
what else is out there at this point, there may be an issue
that may come up, I don’t see it, I just mentioned two.
If the person is going to considered an employee we need
to address that, for insurance purposes. There were issues,
if they were going to be stationed here because she said
to be the person supervising, then it became an issue who
is going to supervising the person. These things need to
be addressed up front. I don’t have a problem going for it,
I think we need someone to go after these grants and its
not as simple. Someone wants to work at home and they
want to consider an internship and they’ll write ten
grand for us. Councilman Allar said it can be relatively
simple, the reason I said that is because too many other,
many municipalities, they don’t have to be stumbling
over these problems, when you get internship. The
same way with the program I brought in before, the
program was running for almost fifty years with federal
money, its been in thousand of municipalities all across
the country, but somehow their management and their
attorneys found and accepted it, to go along with a plate
that they had. You’re trying to change the wording in
a contract from HUD, that’s going to happen, you go
along with it and you get the benefits of the program or
you pick at it and you loose the opportunity. We picked at
it. Somehow we were found issues that no one seemed
to care about. All they saw was the opportunity, well good,
we lost it, we lost the money we could have had. Do you
think York College is going to rip us off? Well maybe
we’re going to get some kind of an audit, like HUD
is going to come down and audit Yoe Borough. That’s
things you don’t worry about. Its not going to happen.
But that was one of the things discussed. We have to take
a little risk sometime. Councilman Snyder said what happens
Tom, and I’ll be quite frank, you bring this issues to us, dump
it out on the council, the reason that ARD didn’t work with
Woody was because you wouldn’t do what you needed to do.
If you are going to be this person supervisor, yes it would work
New Business(cont.) Page 55
What you wanted to do with that other person, you wanted to
pass it on to Sandy. Councilman Allar said absolutely not,
there was no way that Sandy could direct him to do the grant
research, I already had it worked out that was my job. Councilman
Snyder said okay but you just said this person is going to be
day to day oversight, if you are willing to do that, then I’m 100%
for it, because you know what you’re going to say this is what
needed, Sandy go ahead, now you are this person’s contact, that
is exactly what is going to happen. Councilman Allar said there
are assumptions that aren’t warranted Sam. Councilman Snyder said
that’s because you have done it for years. Councilman Allar said
I did not. Councilman Noll said I think at this point what is in the
past is in the past. Councilman Allar said how can Sandy do something
with grants, she doesn’t know about it. Councilman Snyder said you
did the same thing with ARD. You set us up with ARD, and said
Woody go to it, the only reason its working right now is because
Dana is doing all the work with it. Councilman Allar said and Woody
was the previous Dana. Am I going to come down and here and tell
Woody. Councilman Myers said Woody didn’t want to do it either.
Councilman Allar said Woody didn’t want to do it, the time that Woody
was here, is the time where the ARD is here, I am not going to be
supervising ARD, when do I supervise a work crew when Woody is
the one that knows that has to be done. That is a bad example. All
I’m saying is you wanted my opinion, I am telling you what my
concern is, you said this person is going to need day to day oversight.
Councilman Allar said I did not say that I said either by phone or
in person, the work station is a work station, I’m not even saying its
going to be here, the point of it is, is that person is self contained,
and does whatever he needs to do, if he has a question he calls
me. The only reason I was doing it then is because that is when the
office is open unless you want to give him a key. There is no
supervision for Sandy if anything he can take some of grant work
load off of him by doing grant administration. Councilman Snyder
said all you said is what issues that I had with it, these are issues
that came up in the past. That’s what it is. Councilman Allar said
its not the legal issues and the insurance issues. I mentioned to you
that the counselors didn’t have insurance for child abuse, that’s a
big thing, you’re always seeing that in the paper. But it didn’t
matter, that legal issue didn’t seem to matter. Over here we found
all kind of legal issues, what if he falls down , what if we have
a contractor fall down, there is all different ways I can game
play anything if you want to do it. There are projects that have
legal risks, if you want to forget that you go with that, projects you
New Business(cont.) Page 56
don’t, you find problems. Councilman Snyder said yes I think we
should go for it. Councilman Allar said its more work for me, that’s
fine, I’m trying to get new money into this place rather raising
our taxes. Councilman Snyder said I was just being honest, you said
are there any issues. I think it’s a good idea get some grants in there,
Just like we found out with Steve, grants cost money. One thing
I also see you have to a project identified, and then try to go out
and get the money, just don’t go out there get the different grants
without having any idea. We want to go for a grant and this is what
we’re going to go for. Let’s have an identified project. Councilman
Allar said this is going to be worked on as a council. Councilman
Myers said one thing we can research what grants are out there.
I think we should go for it and see what we can get, and work
around the problem. Councilman Noll said if you need any help,
I would be willing to go for the borough, on liabilities, and come
of a list of these are the projects that we want to get money for.
Councilman Myers said with a little bit of research , talk to
county lady that does grants. Councilman Noll said at Martin
Memorial they use to have someone that wrote grants.
Councilman Allar said I’d like to get something to Seth by
next week.
Councilman Snyder asked anything thing else for new business?
Dallastown Councilman Noll said with my meeting with Dallastown two other
Meeting things came up. If we want to do the sealing of curbs or anything,
Dallastown has the machine. They would be more than happy
let us use it. They just asked that any hours that they put into it,
that Dana would return to help them out. The other thing speaking
of grant writers, they are willing with Windsor Borough and Red Lion
are willing to share a grant writer between the municipalities to
look for opportunities, they need some seed money to get it started.
There are grants for other things. Councilman Allar asked did you
talk to Dan? Councilman Noll said I talked to Dan and also talked
to Connie.
Traffic Councilman Noll said a traffic accident ordinance is something that is
Accident floating through the group, the municipal manager’s group. When
Ordinance there is traffic accident, we usually pay for the police, they have a test
ordinance that is five to six years in the making, that puts the burden
of payment on whomever is found at fault at the accident, just like
when you hit or pole, I know its not a huge amount of money for us
but it might be a way. Councilman Myers said and you’re saying it
went through the state. Councilman Noll said because you can’t
New Business(cont.) Page 57
charge if like the fire company goes out, it’s a moving violation
for someone, if they’re not a resident of the municipality, technically
you have to provide services for their residents, it doesn’t have to
be. If you are interested in that, the group is looking into getting
the verbiage and everything, I’ll get it we can look at it, we’ll
see if its something we can pass for way to recover some expenses
that incur. Councilman Snyder said we may want to give that onto
Chief Gross, their cooperation.
Benchmark Councilman Noll said they had a presentation from Benchmark
Energy Energy Solutions. There is going to be a meeting at Dallastown,
February 22, the group came down to present to us and they’re
going to present, York Township is going to be there, Dallastown
will be there, and I liked to be there if I can and anyone else
from the council, they are going to invite all their councils, Windsor
Borough anyone on this end of the county. They are an energy
consultant group they do two things, first is they pull municipalities
together into a buying block to get electricity a lot cheaper with
deregulation coming, they are saying its going to be at least 50%
on commercial accounts, the regular meters, and they are saying
75 to 150% on un-metered. So that’s what’s coming on the dollar
amount. They are doing significant savings, they take your last
three years of energy bills because they have to set up the usages.
Any they find that is an irregularity that they can get back money
for the municipality ,this is gas and electric, they will fight it for
you, they will get the money back for you. They keep 30% and
you get 70%. When it comes actual program, they take all your
meters, I’m not sure how many meters we have between all the
municipal properties, they take them, they make the payments,
they send you one invoice, with a spreadsheet that shows the
meter and the cost, in one check. You don’t have to audit
it for problems they take care of them. Its very interesting
group plus the fact that they have buying power. Springettsbury
has done this thing and they are extremely happy with it, John
Holman he’s a stickler. Its currently being used by York City and
definitely by Harrisburg and a lot of other municipalities, Shrewsbury
Township and other municipalities. This is the first time thaw
we’ve been exposed to it. This is gone through the municipal service
group through the state and they have recommended this program
and done the research and gone through all the different companies.
Councilman Myers said the thought process is we have lower
electric bills for the municipality. Councilman Noll said yes.
Instead of buying it off the grid so to say at normal rates, there
New Business(cont.) page 58
pulling down, they are buying it in blocks, they’re not locking
in for multiple years, they’re shopping constantly so if the price
goes down they’re able to realize it. They are playing the market
a little bit, to get a better rate. Councilman Snyder asked how
do they do it for the un-metered? Councilman Noll said that
I don’t 100% know other than un-metered electric comes in at
x kilowatt, x dollars of kilowatt hour that they have to bill you
so much, that would be a question I’d have to ask, I don’t understand
that. Again we can get, its all based on what you pay for kilowatt
hours. I thought it was extremely interesting. Again the 22nd of
February anyone is interested, at 7PM. Councilman Myers said I
don’t know if I’ll be able to make but you would be able to ask
if that is something the fire company could piggyback on. Councilman
Noll said yes. Fire companies, its that interesting that Kinsley is looking
at that for their buildings, they do commercial as well. They started
with municipal they are branches out. Have sixty gas meters and sixty
electric that I have to have to sort, the money I can save from just
having one bill pays for itself. Councilman Allar said the saving
of 13.55 is that after they take their percentage. Councilman Noll said
yes, its very interesting and its one of the few things that is full service.
Councilman Allar said the thirty percent? Councilman Noll said
is off the savings. Councilman Allar said the actually savings is around
17%. Councilman Noll said it is way of possibly saving some money.
I’m not sure how many electric. One here and at the traffic light.
The secretary said I get one bill for 47 street lights. Councilman Noll
said its an opportunity.
Economic Councilman Noll said we met with the economic guru from economic
Development development, they are really happy we’re doing our economic
development plan. Between the comp plan, that’s why we asked for
the things from Connie we’re going to look at the town try to figure
even we have districts that are shown, we’re going to see what
business really is, we do have five zoning districts. Gives us the
possibility to look at that. Then we are going to set up a meeting
next month and bring someone from York County Planning to
see what ordinances go along with economic development. The
beginning stage you have to identify where are problems are
where we aren’t getting taxes, where our vacant properties are,
where business is, where we can have some opportunities.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for new business any questions for
economic development?
New Business(cont.) Page 59
Milt’s Councilman Snyder said we did receive notice from Milt’s
due to increases our new rates are going to be fifty dollars for
regular time, $75.00 for overtime, the bucket rate will be
$20.00 as needed. And that will go on the new contract.
Councilman Noll said is this for the traffic light? Councilman
Myers said yes.
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder asked did everyone have an opportunity to look over the bills?
With the addition of Griffith Strickler,$1493.70, Hemler $63.00, Quill $26.00,
Yoe Ambulance $2825.02, Yoe Ambulance $397.34 and Stambaugh Ness $2500.00.
A motion was made by Councilman Myers to pay the bills with the additions.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said motion carried.
Adjournment
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the meeting at 10:56PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor.
