YOE BOROUGH Pg. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on October 6, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Vice President of Council Barry Myers at 7:00PM followed by
the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Members in Attendance:
Others in attendance:
John Sanford, Mayor
Steve Malesker, Engineer
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Ginnie Knier, Resident of 75 W. George Street
Latasha Johnson, Resident of 147 S. Main Street
Dennis Klinedinst, Red Lion Borough Council
Don Spera, Asst. Secretary of Red Lion Area Business Assoc.
Joe Strobeck, Business Owner and Resident of Yoe Borough
Scott Thompson, Resident of York Township
Katie Miles, YCEDC
Caitlyn Meyer, YCEDC
Blanda Nace, YCEDC
Councilman Myers asked if council has reviewed last month’s minutes? If so may I have
motion to approve them, or if there are any changes? Mr. Malesker said I haven’t seen
them, I just wanted to check. You know I was discussing the award for the park project,
I think that for the award for Legend, I want to make clear, they were awarded for
$107,723.00. When I was talking about it I know I added in Co Stars to get the total
project cost of $168,678.00. I just wanted to make sure that those two were differentiated
that the total project cost includes the Co Stars, the playground equipment. That it was
awarded to Legend for $107,723.00. The secretary said it will be a clarification for the
minutes. Steve and I already talked about it, I asked him to bring it up to make sure it
Minutes(cont.) Page 2
was clarified. Councilman Myers said very good. Any other comments on last month’s
minutes? A motion to approve the minutes of September 1, 2009 was made by Councilman Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Naylor. All in favor.
Councilman Myers said okay visitors, I have Ginny Knier. Stand up and say where your
address, where you live at. Mrs. Knier said I live back here at the alley way, I think the
borough calls it Gay Street. I am asking for permission from the council to use the parking lot at the borough office on Thursday evening for my bible study group. We
meet from 6:30 to 8:30 every Thursday, we only meet from September to the third
week in November and then we meet in January through April. The most it would be
would be five cars. And the second thing that I’d like to say is that having a little
difficulty with the speeding down the Alley. We have eight children that live along
the alley way. Have already said something to them, but they tend to speed down
this alley really fast. Councilman Myers said for that part there, we can have the mayor
speak to the police department. I may be a little hard to do a speed trap on that alley,
unfortunately. Mrs. Knier said perhaps a Children At Play sign to help them slow down.
Riding bikes, they wouldn’t have a chance if they stepped out. Mayor Sanford said I know the family of the young lady that moved in there so I’ll personally talk to her.
Mrs. Knier said I already talked to them, I think they took offense. Mayor Sanford said
okay. Mrs. Knier said okay. Councilman Myers said under new business, we’ll bring that
subject up. Under new business we’ll talk about the parking. You’re welcome to stay
for the meeting or we’ll contact you once we make a decision.
Councilman Myers asked is there any other visitors for anything, I know we have the
York County Economic. Mrs. Johnson said my name is Latasha Johnson, I live at
147 S. Main Street, Yoe. I’m hear because me and my husband received a letter from
Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, Michael Gillespie regarding that water.
At first it was leaking from the hydrant, I believe Dana came by and dug some stuff up.
Re routed somewhat out of traffic’s way. We were told it wasn’t our fault, it wasn’t our
problem. I know the county said it was the city, or the city said it was the county. Didn’t
seem that anyone was willing to do anything and I received a letter saying that you are
responsible for it. Councilman Myers said that came from the state I believe. Mrs. Johnson said so I spoke to Dana, he suggested that I come here, and see what sort of
plan that was going to happen, I wasn’t sure if it was in the near future or not in that
area as far as fixing certain things. So. Councilman Myers said yes, we were actually
working on that project. We were talking about doing something there with a grant.
How its working out with PENN DOT. Mr. Malesker said they were suppose to be
working with us on that. I had not idea they were going to be sending this letter.
I was surprised to see that. Mrs. Johnson said I talked to a Steven Dietz. Councilman
Myers yeah, Steve Dietz. Mrs. Johnson said today and he said that they shouldn’t
never did any kind of construction, they should never dug up anything. They or we
or whomever, Dana, whoever who did this, they knew better, that we were told, this
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should have been handled, pretty much he’s saying that its, yeah. Councilman Myers
said he’s vague, when they say they are they talking about us, are they talking about
theirself. Mr. Shearer said I think what Steve is referring to is what the sewer authority
and the water authority did, kind of sounds like now that he’s saying that they should have had a HOP to do the work. I guess that’s what they’re saying, they didn’t have
permission to work there. Here again, PENN DOT, they like to claim what they want
to claim when they want to claim it. So now they’re going to say that, this problem
with the work within the right of way, I dispute from the plans when they redid the
road out there, only show that as a 33 foot right of way, from the sidewalk only.
When they did the sewer work in the Johnson’s yard, it was well outside the right
of way. I guess the way it sounds like, they are trying to insinuate that, that work
puts that water onto the road. That was the fault of whomever, and now they’re
trying to. Councilman Myers said that water came out a long time before that work
was done. Mr. Shearer well that, I agree. Mr. Malesker said its coming from a spring,
it so happens that we’ve had wet year so far. Its running. We tried to get incorporated,
when PENN DOT did the road, they didn’t want to do anything with it. So they’ve
known about that issue. They know that we, we’re trying to move forward and get
something done there. I didn’t realize that they were going to send this letter. There
is a little background on this, Dana was talking about this, when the water authority
was there, there was a problem with the sewer lateral. Mr. Shearer said that was the
original complaint. Mr. Malesker said so, they dug that up and I think they found that,
that spring is actually tied into the sanitary sewer system. Because the sewer authority,
said, can’t do that because that’s infiltration in there going into the sanitary sewer, its
got to be treated, the borough’s got to paid for it. So they disconnected that and just
let it surface. It surfaced and the water authority thought it was a leak. So they excavated
real close to the curb box, didn’t find anything. And crushed a terra cotta pipe there, so
Joe put a pvc pipe to let it outlet to the drive way, instead of just bubbling up through
the yard. And then it was going to the curb line. I think that’s the history of it there. We
actually met with PENN DOT down there, we met with Terry Sprenkle, several months
ago. Councilman Naylor asked did we determine that it was tied into the sanitary sewer line? Mr. Shearer said the line is on the other side of the street, at this point, we have to
do a directional bore into it. Mr. Malesker said it would be expensive. Mr. Shearer said
it is several 100 feet away. Mr. Malesker said we had asked for help with PENN DOT,
to put an inlet right there, tie that spring water right to that side of the inlet and then
tie it across the street to the other one. That work could be incorporated with the street
project. They basically said that’s too late, can’t do that so. So it was never addressed.
Councilman Noll asked since the sewer/water authority dug it up, is there any liability?
Did anybody ask? Councilman Myers said I would think not right off the top of my head
but keep in mind even though they dug it up, that issue was there years ago. Trying to
pawn it off on the sewer authority, I don’t think that’s the thing to do either. I think we
can get together with PENN DOT, because there are a couple of issues you know, legally
the homeowner is responsible for the water that comes off of your property, you’re
responsible for okay. Of course PENN DOT is saying that to her with this letter. We
think its underground streams, it could be from one of our storm sewer somewhere but
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then again we don’t have that many storm water pipes in that area to blame it on the
storm water pipes. We have to do more investigating. Solicitor Solymos said we’re
going to have an executive session, I’ll fill everyone in at that time. Councilman
Myers asked how many days notice to they give you, was it thirty or sixty? Mrs.
Johnson said thirty days. Solicitor Solymos said October 31. Councilman Myers said
we’ll contact PENN DOT, because we definitely need to talk to PENN DOT again.
We’re going to have our engineer and solicitor talk to PENN DOT. We made them
aware of that before they paved that road that there was an issue with water up there.
Okay, and they opted, they did nothing. After the fact, the road is paved now they’re
issuing a letter. Its irritating to us, we made them aware of it when they did the road.
Now they’re telling us we don’t want you tearing up the road, they usually don’t like
you tearing up the road for five years. They kind of have us, between a rock and hard
place. We are looking at some grant issues trying to get some grants to put some
storm water in, running down the sidewalks, we’re in the process of doing that now.
That’s not going to happen over night. The economy, the way it is, grants are easily
available. So. Councilman Naylor said there is a fare amount of water coming out of
there. Councilman Myers asked are you having any water problems in your basement
at all? Mrs. Johnson said none. Councilman Myers said none, you don’t have any
thing coming up in your basement? The only reason I say that is, we had a council member he. Mrs. Johnson said they came into the basement, trying to figure out everything. They were trying not to go that route, but they said they might have to
dig up where our front porch is. They didn’t want to go that route because they were
trying to find where the water box was, they couldn’t find that box at all. But they
finally found it. Mr. Malesker said its in your driveway. Mrs. Johnson said yes its
in our driveway so they finally found that but. Councilman Myers asked the storm
drain in your driveway? Mr. Malesker said the curb box. At the time that they
thought it was a water leak. Mrs. Johnson said they tested the water to see, everything.
Mr. Malesker said for some reason, there was some chlorine residual in there. That’s why Joe was looking for a leak. Councilman Myers said I still think we need to run that
camera up the pipe. Councilman Naylor asked chlorine in a spring? Mr. Malesker said
I don’t know if it was a false positive, there was a trace amount of chlorine in the water.
You always see water surfacing like that, you always check for chlorine to see what the
water leak is from. Councilman Naylor said maybe we can contact PENN DOT to see
if we can get an extension from that thirty days. Mr. Shearer said I really think PENN
DOT is shedding liability because of winter. That’s why they want to make sure,
this before November. Its off of them for the winter. Councilman Myers said we’ll
definitely contact them, and see if we can get that extended. I don’t what else to say,
we’re going to have to do some legal work with PENN DOT and see. We’ll be in
contact with you but that doesn’t mean that we’re telling you that, that letter is no
good. That didn’t come from us. Make sure that Sandy has your phone number. Dana,
do you think, you can arrange to have that t. v. camera run up that pipe. Do we feel
the same way, that we should t. v. camera that pipe? Mr. Shearer said we’re going
to have to run a locator. Councilman Myers said we just need to get a right of way
permission slip signed from you, so we can get on your property and dig up that
Visitors(cont.) Page 5
pipe a little bit and get the t. v. camera up that pipe. We want to see where that pipe
is going. Would you be willing to give us the right of way? Mr. Malesker said it would
be a temporary easement for them to access your land to try to find the source of this
water. Mrs. Johnson asked when would they do that? Solicitor Solymos said they
would give you notice well in advance, all they want to do is go on however long it
takes to run the pipe and then they will leave. If they disturb your land , cut anything,
they will have reseed and put back the way it was. Councilman Myers said with it
being so late in the fall here, grass may not germinate so good. So we would probably
do that in the spring, set that straight. It won’t be a real big hole out there. Run a small
t. v camera up there. Mr. Malesker said if we need the t.v. camera, we’re going to try
to run the locator first. Councilman Myers asked are you around during the day maam?
Mrs. Johnson said me and husband work days and nights so someone will be there.
Councilman Myers said we’ll try to get a hold of PENN DOT tomorrow,we’re try to
contact and see what we can do about it.
Councilman Myers said okay, next will be Katie Miles from York County Economic
Development Corporation. I’m Katie Miles from York County Economic Development
Corporation and this is Blanda Nace from the corporation. I’m going to send these
around, these are for, just for your information. I’m going over the material but not in
any detail. So we can have more additional conversation about our organization, this is
introductory, so we can more conversation about what our organization mainly about
what Blanda does. Blanda is the person who would be working with boroughs. I’m up here at the moment, we’ve been working on a project over the last eighteen months with
the York County Planning Commission. And we’ve been working on the process of
developing an economic development plan for the county. The county has had many
modules but its never had an economic development plan. So we’ve been working the
last eighteen months to develop and create that. We have a nice partnership with the
planning commission. A lot of this information is the result of that relationship. The
planning commission is actually part of the county government, we are not, we’re a
private not for profit. We do receive county funding though. So a lot of services are available to the community. A lot we do, whether its for municipalities, or whether it’s a company or whether it’s the general public. We do have other services available to you.
One of the reasons that we’re glad about that economic plan is that plan identifies for us
a lot of information about the community and about how economic development can
be implemented throughout all of York County. Going over the power point just a little,
then I’ll give it over to Blanda to make a brief comment on the program that he identifies.
Basically economic development there is a definition there. Our primary mission is create
jobs and expand the tax base. For municipalities it’s the bottom line. So we are similar
in that. We are going to identify around the county, different ways to do economic
development in the community. Economic development in York City, Yoe Borough, in
Stewartstown, Delta Borough, Springettsbury Township and Penn Township are going to
look very different. So what we’re trying to do on the next page is put it in regional. You’ve told us on the bottom of page two, the growth regions that you have identified, in York County. So we’re taking a look at that. Boroughs are primary growth areas. One of
Visitors (cont.) Page 6
intents is to try to revitalize. We’re very excited about the fact that Yoe Borough, Red Lion Borough and Dallastown Borough are talking about planning together. That’s what
we’re all about. In the power point, there are a couple of examples of communities
with economic planning. We gathered information on those. There is grant money to
do that, we’re glad to identify more pots of money. Again going back, this presents
a challenge, there is a lot of supply of vacant buildings over the next ten years. We have 27 million square feet of expansion opportunity. It is already zoned properly, its not in
the flood plain , its typically ready to go, available land and buildings for community
to use for development. There is only 78 million square feet in demand. There is a lot
more supply than there is demand which means not only are we in competition with
the world, the nation and the state, but we’re in competition with areas surrounding
the borough. So one of the things we like to do is go around to the communities. and
got around to Yoe, Red Lion and Dallastown and talk to you about the opportunities as
you plan together. Show different opportunities that you can attract businesses, appropriate for the area. Different types of economic development, are you interested
in industrial, probably not, not necessarily in a borough. It could be retail it could
be office. If you weren’t a borough, I’d say agricultural would be popular in a lot of
the areas in the county. What we want to do through Blanda, help you identify what
opportunities would fit for Yoe Borough. Blanda is our redevelopment specialist,
he works with the redevelopment aspect. Again, I think we try to focus on the plan
itself and what we do. I apologize not having the plan but I wanted you to have this
handout as a resource for communications for later. You’re actually part of the Greater
York Region, you are part of the bigger area. As part of the plan we understand that
you’re locked in for the area. What do you do now, how do you generate tax dollars,
how do retain what you have, how do you create jobs, how do bring in new residents?
One of the primary results that we found, just in a shift of economic development
generally in the last fifteen to twenty years, it use to be about finding the big businesses,
bringing that Toyota plant, or bringing in that big whatever, or the next best thing.
Now its about the work force, finding a quality of life, quality of place. Which will
be more attractive. We did create a little profile, we took it from the information from
our boroughs and our municipalities. This is a first crack at it, its something we can
change and adjust. This is one of the services we do provide. That profile shows the
median age of 31. 30% of the working persons in the borough are making less than
$15,000.00. There are 40 jobs in the borough. 594 employed people leave Yoe Borough
for their jobs. Date shows that most of the 40 jobs that are here, the work force is not
from here and they are coming into Yoe to work. So its an interesting dynamic. We’d
like to take a look at that more in depth if that is something that you are interested in
pursuing. We would collaborate and work together with the other boroughs that are
neighbors. Its something we could put together for the three of you. Again this is new
to us, as we just started this collaboration, we are just rolling out the results of the
development plan so we are kind of making it up as we go along, you’ll have to forgive
us. But right now we are working with the planning commission to identify how we
can come out and meet with the municipalities one on one, to offer services. There
again it’s a mixture of free services and paid services. But the value we bring to the
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table it’s a couple areas. The value we bring to your table, can develop into a lot of
different services. As far as back tracking, I’m going to leave it to Blanda to talk
about. Mr. Nace said before we get into funding, its important to look at future plan
or a comprehensive plan as we look ahead. Predicting out five, or ten or fifteen years,
of what your future will look like and that’s always difficult. And we found that
its ever revolving, changing, its going to have to be on the cutting edge of what the
future will hold for the work place, what a company will hold. What we’re trying
to do in small towns, in Red Lion, in York City, in Wrightsville, people are really
attracted to that urban living. They like the walk ability, they like the ability to
walk to their neighbors. There is a shift coming away from the big mansions and
the houses on four acres in the middle of no where. People are kind of drawn back
into downtown. A lot of that has to do with the age. People that are 36 and younger,
that, your demographics, grew up watching Seinfeld, Sex in the City, Cheers and all
that stuff was urban, New York City living. That is what they saw on t. v., they
didn’t grow up watching Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, all suburban things.
They think when they get out of college when they graduate, that they want to live
in that, walk to the coffee shop, meet other people. They like the social aspect of
boroughs and towns. That is my specialty, redevelopment, primary focus is along
the Codorus corridor. Its an area we define essentially from York College up to
Harley Davidson, follows the Codorus Creek. It involves 6 different municipalities,
three different school districts, we are trying to get everyone to work together as
one group. So like Katie said, we are encouraged that Red Lion, Dallastown and
Yoe are teaming together as partners. You can’t, and I had this discussion with some
of the members of the Red Lion Business Association, you can’t focus on downtown
and neglect the vision of people who are going to drive to Giant. You can’t have a
Giant in your square. You know that people that live in Yoe are going to drive to
Cape Horn to buy at McDonalds. You don’t put your blinder on, you don’t think
about seeing yourself as island and try to promote inter-municipal cooperation.
We’re excited about what’s around you. We’re excited that you are here and planning
together. On the funding side, there is program called LUTAP. I believe its in the
power point. Its Land Use Technical Assistance Planning Grant. We’ve used that
to create to do studies, we used it for some of the economic development plans with
the county and for the Hanover area, we used LUTAP grants over there. It really
provides funding to bring in a consultant, or to bring in a non profit to pay for
the planning commission to give a more detailed analysis. Once that funding right
now is dried up for the year, right now. But some of it, on the mind set of DCED
in Harrisburg, the Department of Economic and Community Development, they
would absolutely love to fund three municipalities working together for a plan.
I think we could make that sell. More recently, more of a critical time frame right
now is, a grant that the county has received for about 2 million dollars for a program
through the President’s stimulus package called the Neighborhood Stabilization
Program, NSB. And the county planning commission looked at foreclosure rates
throughout the county, identified five municipalities and boroughs where foreclosure
rates were appearing to be critical. They are Hanover, Dallastown, Yoe, West York
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Borough and Red Lion. Actually you’re three municipalities, Yoe, Red Lion and
Dallastown are three of the five municipalities, that are in danger of excessive
foreclosure rates. There has been, you may have seen it in the paper, the city thought
that they are getting two million dollars but the county was. The city is not
eligible for this funding. Its is being used for distressed municipalities. I just
learned about this program a few days ago at a meeting Hanover. Where a developer
was trying to purchase some dilapidated properties, trying to get grant money
to re produce them into making them into rentals, a faith based housing opportunity.
And they are shopping around for other places. They would find a property that
was blighted, vacant, abandoned, unpaid taxes. A property that is in foreclosure or
about to foreclose or a property that is going up for sheriff’s sale. What we’d like to
do , and I’m going to tomorrow. Going to reach out to the county planning commission,
Joiann and Chris Rafferty are heading up this program. I’m going to get more details
on what is going on. I’d like to identify what property if any, may be suitable. It may
be as simple as , one property or one vacant house that is blighting or causing a bad
image for the town. Hopefully find some to acquire through grant money to help the
property. I’ll actively be pursuing that tomorrow. Ms. Miles said I think what we are
saying to you is we’re an opportunity of a resource, because we’re partly funded
by the county, you can use our services at little or no cost. Blanda will provide that information to your municipality. We also will continue to provide information to you.
We are excited that you want to move forward with your economic plan as part of
your Comp plan together. We would be very excited about being part of that process.
We appreciated the opportunity to help you with that process. Again depending on
the level of the services that you are looking for, it may or may not be at a fee but
that can all be worked out with the planning commission. But what we are looking
for today, is to educate you a little bit about the opportunities, a little bit about
the economic plan and YCEDC is trying to bring to municipalities services to
the people, create jobs, expanding the tax base. Create jobs for about 73 municipalities.
You’re the first to express interest so congratulations. Since we completed this plan, look for us again, please consider attending a regional meeting in December. we will come
back to discuss the results of the plan. We will do that in power point in a little bit more
detail. I do not want to keep you any later than I have to. Councilman Naylor asked do
you offer any services directly to existing small business people to help them understand.
Ms. Miles said we do and we very much are the liaison between the municipalities and the businesses. We actually have a program where we go out to 150 companies annually
and talk to them about their concerns. Again try to educate about the different programs
that we do have. If we can’t help directly, with other services that can help. Councilman
Myers asked and you help the small businesses get money for buildings, or purchase
buildings? Ms. Miles said there are different funding programs out there that have
different purposes. So what we try to do is to engage with company directly and find out
what their concern/need is. Buy a new building, renovations of their building, pots of
money for bricks and mortar, infrastructure issue there is money for infrastructure.
Depends on what particular issue. Mr. Nace was also incorporate other service
providers as a partner to team up with us to help small business or large business.
Visitors(cont.) Page 9
I had a meeting for example last year with an architect down town in York. They
were having trouble with their electrical supply. So I reported that, they had a pretty
complex computer system that they had everything in. Entered that in, put in troubles
that they had received with Met Ed. And they came out to put a monitor on the line
and found out what it was and were able to stabilize. Its issue like that we’re here
to help small businesses. Try to iron out, like child care providers, work with
Rabbit transit. There is pretty much a whole gambit of things that we can help.
That is part of economic development. Ms. Miles said and just one item with the conversation that you had, we are pleased to report to you that one of the issues
that we have in the whole process, that municipalities are not the hold up when
it comes to redevelopment, it is in fact PENN DOT. Mr. Thompson asked
you mentioned that there will be 27 million square feet that is already zoned, is
that existing or is that planned for development. Ms. Miles said its already
zoned and its already ready. Mr. Thompson said some of that is already existing
buildings could actually be developed. Ms. Miles said it is what they already
calculated. What they did ruled out anything that wasn’t properly zoned, for
commercial/industrial. They valued it to how much commercial business, how
much industrial, how much to each category for the overall square footage will
be needed. Mr. Thompson said I’m involved with the regional re use of existing
in the green field. Many times to get it developed it is cheaper and easier to get
it done. Talking to some of legislatures and lawmakers, they are trying to change
that so. From the redevelopment opportunity, it maybe easier than developing
brand new. Do you feeling it is something that you are seeing? Ms. Meyer said
what we are taking a look at with the different municipalities is five steps back
what we vision, what type of economic development are you looking for,
is it rehab of your homes to turn them into commercial properties, is more
to take residential and make into a bed and breakfast, what type of jobs, what
type of economic development. Then we get into the programs. I recently
talk with other municipality and one of the items that came on the table was
energy and energy efficiency. You may want to incorporate that into your plan,
find out the guidelines. Incorporate energy efficiency into your permitting so
you are encouraging in the redevelopment of the properties some new programs
that are out there to use high performance energy efficiencies. Or a resident to
encourage your residential properties. Anywhere you want to go with. Ms.
Miles said again we are offering to work with you, we are excited. Councilman
Allar said you mentioned programs that you can offer, do you have a listing
of services. So we can have a hand out and contact information to give
businesses and residents. If you have that to provide, I can get it out there.
Ms. Miles said usually the companies are experts at what they do, so its
easier for us to come in and see what is going on with them. And then we
can point them to the program. Councilman Allar said it maybe mechanically
to do that. Ms. Miles said we can provide business cards. Councilman Allar
said we need something to tickle their interest then they can make some
contacts or come to us so we can contact. Ms. Miles said we have a general
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services brochure and we also have a new part that we are developing on our
website which is not up yet. We have new section coming on, again its with
the economic development plan with the county, there is a new section called
county activity for each of the five regions. When your group collaborates,
work on a effort, we want to promote that on the website. Give examples
to the other communities. We also want to show on the website what the
Hanover partners are doing, how they are collaborating. Councilman Allar
said we are already using LUTAP for our comprehensive plan, I don’t know
if that conflicts anything. We sort using this for contract for the consultant.
How are we going to integrate with you guys and with Pam at the county
level, how do we go about it, to prevent duplication or whatever. Ms. Miles
said Pam has worked with is, she is familiar with the economic development
as part of the county. She would be the one to bring into the process. She would
know when it would be appropriate which is why I briefly said, the planning
commission is the lead in this project. They would bring us on board should you
wish to use our services at a fee. But as far as helping with a plan, helping to
develop that section on the comp plan, Pam would be the one, she would know
when it would be appropriate and what sources, you would leave Pam do that.
Councilman Allar said I was just thinking the economic segment of the comp
plan could be a year. Maybe its something you could be doing now, that part
of the economic development segment. Ms. Miles said absolutely. Councilman
Allar said so that’s what I’m trying to say, how do you know when to begin and
involve all the other municipalities in time, that’s where the lines cross with the
municipalities. Mr. Nace said we always see ourselves as facilitators, right group
together at the right time. It can be as simple as individual visit to municipalities,
or a group session. And try to narrow it down from there. Ms. Miles said we
can get a contact name so somewhere down the line, again we don’t want speak
without. Councilman Allar said I just don’t want to miss an opportunity. We don’t lose that. Mr. Nace said we don’t want to put the cart before the horse. Ms. Miles said
we bring to our attention the foreclosure for the county in October. Mr. Nace said
this month. Apparently the county has already been down and surveyed the area.
Councilman Allar said I know you just found out about it but is there something
we’re suppose to do. Mr. Nace said I will find that out tomorrow. Ms. Miles said
and we’ll call you and let you know on your behalf. Councilman Allar said before you
leave,what should we do next, how will we see something happening? Ms. Miles said
as far as engaging with us. Just calling us after your discussion tonight and let us know
that you want to work with us, that’s the first step. What we can do, if you let us know,
what you want to do and when you want to bring us into your comp plan, we can plan
that with what services we have available now. See what we can do for you for free and
this is what we can do for you at a cost. We would frame it for you and say here are your
options. You as a council, just let us know. We could have a working session and talk
to you during a working session. Is this something just for the comp plan or do you want
it for the borough. Mr. Nace said we are planning to meet with the Red Lion Business
Association and council members, we have been working with Brian Sanders to facilitate
Visitors(cont.) Page 11
a meeting with us to come down and give ideas of development and planning. Ms.
Miles said the issues also with Red Lion and Dallastown and of course Yoe as a
a group. We can work with you as a group or however you wish you want to
work with us. Facilitate a phone call. We are ready to move forward, we are
ready to have a discussion on what you want to do for economic development.
We can work in group meetings. Councilman Myers said we’ve been working
with Red Lion and Dallastown for years, I think it makes a lot of sense to do
that, three heads are better than one, whenever we can get into a program, it will
benefit everybody. What we have already started is great but we want to continue.
Ms. Miles said we were very excited to hear, when Tom talked to me and my
boss actually at an event. In the process, there are 82 agreements with municipalities
for services. Councilman Naylor said there is another round of stimulus money
coming out for installation of windows and doors an all, is that the first of month?
Ms. Miles said I’d have to look. Keep an eye on that. Bland specifically looks into
residential and what to is available to boroughs. Mr. Nace said in the last year
they have worked on quality of place. To find out more about where you are, not
so much about what you do. You see a lot of new development with rental housing.
A lot of people frown on rental housing. You can do have both, you can have renters
with the community. One of the benefits that I see with the City of York, is that
landlords have the taxes worked into their performa. You want to work with landlords
that they are going to pay their taxes. There is a lot of foreclosure of homeowners that
got sub prime mortgages. A lot of them are homeowners that were forced into housing.
If you look at rental housing, it attracts the younger crowd, that may be mobile and may
not stay but it’s the community’s job to embrace that and make them want to pay and
be part of that nucleus. Rental in the apartment complexes in York are redeveloping. The
thought process is that they are there for our future homeowners. They come into the
community, they learn to live here, they get involved and they want to stay. And that’s
the mind shift. Its difficult for a lot of people to get their minds around suburbanites living out, and driving home and driving into work. Its hard for them, it’s a generational
shift. Councilman Myers said very good. Councilman Naylor asked who would be the
point of contact for the small businesses at this point before we continue, to find out
what services would be available to them? Ms. Miles said I can leave you our cards.
Mr. Nace said either one of us, there are about four or five of us in the office. Councilman Allar said and you are going to provide something about services. Ms.
Miles said yes. We would take a look at the business, each of us has different areas of expertise. Blanda is our engineer. We have information on funding for different uses.
Mr. Nace what I really enjoy, is that this gives us a chance to learn. Councilman Myers said on the businesses, is that like a low interest loan that they can get? Ms. Miles said yes, there are lots of different programs. Most of them are low interest. You can money
for the project. Councilman Myers said you figure out where they should fit. Ms. Miles
said right. Councilman Allar said you were telling about one program, I think when
the business expands you get higher assessed values. Ms. Miles said one of the programs,
its an eight month program. One of the programs that we offer companies in the area,
is a state program it’s the Local Economic Revitalization Assistance Program. It’s an
Visitors(cont.) Page 12
opportunity for you the municipality, school district and for the county to collaborate
that you wish to differ tax on the improvements of the property, if you have a property
in town that is blighted or vacant for the last fifteen years and you really want to see
it redeveloped, say it’s a row of three homes that has been vacant for a long time.
Have those three properties as a LERTA district in the cooperation with the county,
school district and you. You agree, developer can come in and the developer can improve
the property. You still receive what you had been receiving as it existed prior to
improvements. But when a business comes in and occupies that space, and redevelops,
it’s a ten step sliding scale. The first year they don’t pay any tax, the second year they
pay 10%, the third year 20% and so on. For ten years until it reaches 100%. It keeps that
property from being vacant for another ten or twenty years. It really is a deferral on the
tax increase. Councilman Allar said I think we would need a working session so we
can visualize how this would be. Ms. Miles said I would suggest that if you are interested, give us a call. We can get this group together or a small working group
however you’d like, we’d love to come and talk about the different programs, talk
about opportunities to create a vision. It depends on where you want to go, what direction. If you are trying to attract this. Councilman Myers said sounds very positive.
I like it. Ms. Miles said thank you very much for having us and thank you for volunteering and doing the work you do. Mr. Spera said speaking on behalf of the
Red Lion Business Association, I’m the secretary. We would like to communicate with
you guys as well. The more joint effort we have the more it will help. We do represent
100 businesses of Yoe, Dallastown, Red Lion and some in York Township. The more
networking we have, the more everyone will have. We are growing as well. We are
going to have more interaction. Councilman Myers said I think if we work together,
makes us stronger with the businesses and municipalities. Help each other out. Red Lion
Borough Council, thank you for coming down. Councilman Allar said while we are on the topic, does council want to continue with contact. Should I get them back with some
sort of work session? Councilman Myers said I think if you can get everyone on board,
and have a committee meeting. Councilman Allar asked a committee meeting with a
couple people from the council and maybe a business person? Councilman Myers said
with all three boroughs, I think that will. Councilman Allar said well, I think we would
be overwhelmed, I think they would take over control of what’s going at the meeting and
I don’t want that to happen. I can work them into the comp plan, that has a certain set
of rules, things have to be done a certain way. If we are going to be doing anything,
they may have some opportunities out there, then sitting down and talking to them.
I am not sure if I want to talk to the other three boroughs at the same time. And then
maybe lose that opportunity. Right now just trying to finding out what some of these
programs, the history on the one that one retaining business. If its something for
businesses we already have, if its something of rehabilitation of some property if
that is something we want to do. I don’t have the details right now. I think if we
have a forty five minute working session, if they have twenty programs maybe we
can narrow it down to 6 that might fit Yoe Borough then we have something that we can go to the next step on or just forget about it. Councilman Naylor said I think in good faith, I think it would be good to contact the other people on another level, maybe
Visitors(cont.) Page 13
a couple local business owners, maybe separately or together. Councilman Allar said
I can set these up because there are couple of people here who want, we can’t more
than four people or we have a full council, I can bring in maybe Joe Strobeck and
other business people. Maybe a committee of five people. Then if we have to meet.
Here’s two programs, for example LUPTA, maybe that’s something we wish to apply
for. You mentioned about some sort of priority, in getting money down here. I’m
thinking maybe DCED. So anyway, we don’t have enough to make any decisions.
We want to go the next step. Councilman Myers said I think it would be good to
get a committee to find out what services they provide. Councilman Noll it’s a way
to start find out what they can offer us. Councilman Myers said to try to find out
somehow to make it work. Councilman Allar said they’re probably not going to be
involved with the comp plan until that economic segment comes up. I don’t see that
happening for quite some time. So in the meantime, we probably need to set up something tentatively. Councilman Noll said do we need a motion to set up a meeting?
Councilman Myers said I think so. Councilman Noll made a motion to set a work
session with York County Economic Development to see what programs and other
things they come up with to start a working relationship. Councilman Myers seconded the motion. All in favor. The secretary asked do I need to advertise this Pete? Councilman
Allar said its only going to be three people. The secretary said because the budget
workshop always is. Solicitor Solymos said not everyone is going to be there. Councilman Allar said Barry, I have a feeling that maybe you may be interested, Seth and I. Maybe we can work out, I’ll work with them for the set up. Councilman Naylor said
if this can help get the businesses revitalized,whatever we can do. Councilman Allar said
what I’m afraid of, over a period of time, we are going to come into more foreclosures
and sheriffs sales. It will erode our tax base, either go down or flat line. Councilman Noll
said we have to be careful about that one program that they were talking about, that
we qualified for, that was actually housing/redevelopment but into that public housing.
Properties that aren’t on the tax role. So. Solicitor Solymos said have them explain LERTA to you very carefully. Councilman Noll said and also Keystone Opportunities
is the same, you have to be careful with those programs. Councilman Allar said that’s
where they have to come up with the detail, we have to look at it carefully. Councilman
Naylor said it may help to get business owners on our side.
Solicitor Solymos asked if we could have an executive session?
Executive Session at 8:14PM
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to go into executive session at 8:14 PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Reconvening the Regular Meeting at 8:34PM Page 14
Councilman Myers said we are returning to the regular council meeting.
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to have Solicitor Solymos to continue with
the Cottrell case and to talk to his lawyer. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Howett. All in favor.
Zoning Solicitor Solymos said on our zoning appeal, the record has been filed.
Appeal I’ve got ten more days to file our brief. I file our brief, they’ve got
fifteen days to respond, I’ve got five days to write another brief. And
when I have five days to write another brief, I will not write another
brief. Then it goes to a one judge disposition, and depending on the
judge that we get, it will be anywhere from six weeks to two years
until we get the decision. Councilman Naylor asked is this the Bowser
thing? Solicitor Solymos said this is Bowser. Councilman Noll said
I’d like to see that they can’t basically sell the property. Solicitor
Solymos said they can’t do what they want to do with it. They can
go back to where they were originally. Which is the use that was
approved. Councilman Noll said right.
Hemler Solicitor Solymos said the Hemler contract, that is your dog enforcement
Contract contract is up. Sandy sent it down to me, I reviewed it. Although I didn’t
see last year’s it appears to be identical from last year. It has the
hold harmless. All I want to insure, that you get the insurance policy.
They came they have one million liability on it. The secretary said I got
it last year and there is an addendum to that, whereabout the guns, and
says they have to send us the thing. Solicitor Solymos said the hold
harmless clause. The secretary said he didn’t send it along, I have to
send it back to him, he doesn’t attach that to the original. Solicitor
Solymos said if it would have been there and I wouldn’t have seen the
hold harmless clause, I would have insisted on it anyways. The secretary
said I just copied last years. Solicitor Solymos said let me know if you
have a problem getting your copy of the insurance policy.
Ordinance Solicitor Solymos said in regards to the ordinance, the potential ordinance
with regard to code enforcement. I went over that with Seth, giving
a copy to the Seth, he’s reviewed it. You folks take a look at it, get
back to Sandy. If its okay with you guys, just give me a motion tonight
to advertise it at the next council meeting. A motion was made by
Councilman Noll to advertise the ordinance on uncertified building.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 15
Auditing Solicitor Solymos said the auditing documents, it appears they are doing
Documents the same thing they have done in the past. The secretary said the only
thing is I can’t sign it. Solicitor Solymos said you shouldn’t sign it
because. Vice President can sign it. Councilman Myers asked so its
okay for me to sign? Solicitor Solymos said yes.
SPCA The secretary said the SPCA contract. Solicitor Solymos said I don’t
contract remember that. The secretary said we discussed that, you talked to me
about it, it is like last year’s so you didn’t have a problem. Solicitor
Solymos said I don’t have a problem with that. Councilman Myers
said I can sign it. Solicitor Solymos said yes. Councilman Myers said
and Hemlers I can sign that? Solicitor Solymos said yes.
Solicitor Solymos said that should be it for me? Steve do you have anything for me?
Mr. Malesker said no.
Hemler A motion to sign the Hemler Contract for 2010 was made by Councilman
Contract Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Naylor. All in favor.
SPCA A motion to sign the SPCA contract for 2010 was made by Councilman
Contract Howett. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Engagement A motion to sign the engagement letter for Stambaugh Ness, PC to
Letter do the 2009 audit by Councilman Howett. The motion was seconded
Motion by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Dam/Flood Mr. Malesker said John Klinedinst, the county engineer got word that
Restoration there may be some additional Growing Greener grant money available.
Found out about this when I was on vacation, in my absence Jason
sent a letter to Samantha Dorm at York County on September 29th.
Then we got a call from Felicia asking for a further breakdown for
the cost increases associated with the project. So I did attach the letters.
You haven’t seen the October 6th letter that just went out today. That’s in
my packet. What we’re asking for is an additional $30, 800.00 to go
towards the flood impoundment area restoration. We have approval
from DEP, we let them know at the time that there was no mitigation
that was needed and the $20,000.00 in there from wetland construction,
$7,000.00 for the mitigation plan and permit and $3800.00 for an as built
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 16
survey. And then I know Tom was working on with Kinsley for the
five year monitoring. Councilman Allar said actually I think Sam is.
He is talking to Kinsley about that. Mr. Malesker said we just put
pending on that amount. That is how we came up with the $30,800.00.
Councilman Allar said with Kinsley, Jake Romig is putting in a lot
of time and effort and is probably in a much better position to do
these inspections yearly. Mike Danko knows what we’re looking for.
He’s really an expert on this. One of the things I’m afraid of with
Kinsley, they’re going go out to Davis Landscaping, a company they
use out of Harrisburg, subcontract it, and they don’t have the expertise.
Most of these landscaping companies do not have the expertise to
understand the technical side of these wetlands, there are certain plant
species that the Corps of Engineer’s is looking for. And if those don’t
develop then we’re right back in the dumper again, and spending all
kind of money to replant. That’s one of our problems out there. So,
I don’t have a problem with Kinsley doing it but they have to be careful
on who they’re going to get in. And whether or not we get charged. Mr.
Malesker said so we’ll just have to see how that plays out. Councilman
Allar said I don’t know what Sam’s got back. Tom Ferrin, he’s the guy
I worked with, I’m letting him make the contact. I also talked to one
of the commissioners and Felicia Dell. There is no question that we
established a high priority,in getting whatever is available. They just don’t
know if there is going to be anymore available. Felicia also mention to me,
and mentioned to you that Jason’s letter was not actionable unless we
come up with numbers, which you have done, they can’t work with it.
Mr. Malesker asked and you’re okay with that now? Councilman Allar
said oh yeah, that will be perfect, I don’t see it coming through with that
much. Again, because of all the engineering, that we’ve already spent,
I guess will be talking about it more in the new budget. Sandy and I
already have talked about it. Cause we’re way over in engineering
estimates and the only way we can get well is by having this kind of
money come into us. Because that gives us free rein, with the money
coming from Miller and from the other municipalities. That’s not
earmarked. That’s how we’re going to get well again because we’ve
spent now, Sandy, what is it close to $30,000.00. The secretary said
$27500.00 but I just got another bill. Councilman Allar said which
reminds me, Steve can you update your billing. Mr. Malesker said
I already did. The secretary said I just got big bill. It just came in.
Mr. Malesker said yeah there was. The secretary said I just got it
through August now. Mr. Malesker said its updated now, we got
new software in July. So a lot of the invoices went through and
go approved, new software was installed, that wasn’t suppose to
wipe out the old stuff. It wiped out all of the old stuff. So. Councilman
Allar said we’re going to talk about the budget meeting tonight, so it
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 17
would probably be good if we could get all the bills as possible so
we would know what bills we would have for at least 09. Councilman
Myers said we’re up to date now. Mr. Malesker said yes, we are
up to date now. The secretary said I just got them today. Councilman
Allar said if you are happy with what you got. The secretary said there’s
still a lot that we’ll be getting. Because one of the bills was for the park,
it is over $7500.00 and we only have about $8500.00 left in the DCED
grant. I’m sure we will be going over budget with that. That is one of
the big bills. Mr. Malesker said that was two months of bills. The secretary
said right, but that was only to August so. So we still have September,
October, November and December of engineering for the park. Mr.
Malesker said there’s not going to be a whole lot of time. Seth and Dana
are doing. The secretary said I hope, you already know how much we
have left, I’ve kept you updated on that.
Letter Mr. Malesker said you should have seen the letter we got from DEP.
from We do have conditional authorization to proceed with the flood
DEP impoundment restoration. So we have, at last month’s meeting we
were authorized to proceed and get some specs together. So the plan
is to get that advertised this month and award it at the November
meeting. And then we will, part of that will be, part of that will be
construction stake down for the contractor, so there will be stake
out involved. And then when its done we will need an as built, then
too. And then we’re still waiting then from the Army Corps, Danko
is suppose to be getting a letter to us soon with his concurrence
of, DEP approved it but as mentioned in the letter, Danko gave
verbal approval but we need an official letter for the permit to be
accurate. So we’re still waiting for that. The secretary asked when
this is awarded when does, when do bills have to be paid for this
project. Mr. Malesker asked for the contractor doing the work?
It depends on, we can award the work and then we should talk
about when we want him to start. We could, it could be awarded,
notice to proceed could be February of next year. The secretary said
contingent on getting the money so we can pay the bills. Mr. Malesker
said yeah, the Growing Greener money, they said that its available.
So we sent, there’s another letter there. The secretary asked available
when? Mr. Malesker said when we checked with Mike Lingle, last
month, he said its available we are just waiting on the permit letter
from DEP. We sent Mike a letter on September 29th saying that we
have conditional approval, but we understand that this satisfies the
final outstanding items that required the borough’s attention. So
they should be, the grant center is on notice that everything is in
order. So I would assume that money. The secretary asked that the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
money will be here in about six weeks? Mr. Malesker said yes. The
secretary said that’s all I’m concerned about. Mr. Malesker said we
can have the contractor starting, we’ll have the bids in for next month.
Do you want him to start right a way? Councilman Allar said if
everything is in place, I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t. The
key right now is getting a contract in place. Then once we get a contract,
you and I know, the contract is done in 09 then based on that, signed
contract, Sandy can send our a request to the other municipalities. I
definitely would do that in 09. I don’t want to have to go around and have
them keep it in their budget for 2010. When they’ve had to kick it over,
for over four years. Councilman Noll said how were the specs written,
if we start, as far as when, how were they written? Mr. Malesker said
we want them to basically start in November then. Quickly as possible
before the ground freezes. So we have time, even through December,
we shouldn’t have frozen. Councilman Noll said but I think by the first
of year. Councilman Allar said Sandy, the Growing Greener money,
that’s the Growing Greener that Steve put in for, that’s has to do with
the relocation of wetlands, that’s way down the road. The secretary said
that is the $30,000.00 but the $50,000.00 is what I’m concerned about.
Councilman Allar said that’s right the $51,700.00. The secretary asked
then the money the county is going to give, would we have to send a
letter for that too? Councilman Allar said I think that money is based
on, they pay on receipt of bills. The secretary said okay, I need to know
all that, for that. Because its going to get messy, if its not done right.
Councilman Allar said well hopefully. The secretary said this isn’t
like CDBG so it can get messy. CDBG has a check request and then
go through all that. Councilman Allar said we received the same kind
of money before, I’m trying to remember how. The secretary said it
was only like $10,000.00 wasn’t it. Councilman Allar said yeah, but
how we account for it. The secretary said we put the money in and paid
our bills with it. It was only $10,000.00. Councilman Allar said based
again on the bids for the contract at the next meeting, then we can go
around to everyone with exception of Growing Greener. At least with
municipalities and the county money, we can put a call in. I have it
all written out. The secretary said you can help me with that, the letter.
The secretary asked will it be, pay as we go, get one big bill at the end.
When we’re paying the contractor. Mr. Malesker said I imagine he’ll
do monthly applications for payment. The secretary said okay.
Councilman Noll said so we don’t get in trouble, are there permits
other than what we have now? Mr. Malesker said the only permits
that are going to be required are what we’re getting from DEP.
Councilman Allar said the permits we have will probably be amended
at some time. Mr. Malesker said yeah. Councilman Allar said but they
won’t be anything that we have to apply for. Councilman Noll asked
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
asked about County Conservation? Councilman Allar said well
we have County Conservation, we will have that. Councilman Noll
said that will have to be approved. Mr. Malesker said its more than
acre but the area of disturbance. Councilman Noll said but you’re
actually moving dirt. Councilman Allar said I hope you’re right on
that but. Mr. Malesker said if its less than an acre you don’t need
to worry about that. Councilman Allar said out there, based on
that from happening. That is only about 1/3 of, the wetlands is
about ½. You’ve got the numbers, if we can go with that, that’s fine.
Councilman Myers said is there someone you can call just to make
sure. Mr. Malesker said I’ll double check with Jason on that but
from my understanding if the area of disturbance is less than an acre.
Councilman Allar said I know Red Lion is doing it. Mr. Malekser
said they are doing a permitted sight for the dump site, they did that
at their last meeting. Councilman Myers is that right, good. Councilman
Allar said they’re talking to me, I had talked to different council people.
Getting them to a point of making a decision. An issue they had, had
to do with zoning. Half of the people want to keep it that way, half of
the people want it rezoned. I convinced them to forget the zoning,
just work with the dump site, you can always go back and decide what
you want to do with zoning later. You are still going to need the dirt,
forget that now, you can still pick up the zoning thing.
Park Mr. Malesker said for the park, we had a site meeting today, Seth
Meeting and I and Legend Construction, a few things have come up, overall
its moving along pretty well. He’s taking a lot of the trees now.
And what we need to talk about, and I have it included in my packet
here was change order number two and needs to be approved and this
Change is for, had to do with the electrical, we ordinarily deal with that
Order 2 electrical and provide underground service to the kitchen. So that
was an increase in contract price of $9600.00. We deleted sight light
at the parking, deleted the grading at the overflow parking, deleted
the painting of the bathrooms, deleted the three horseshoe pits and
deleted the parking lot striping and signage but kept the activity
sign, so that was a decrease of $8963.00. So the net change in contract
price is an additional $637.00. Councilman Noll said and by doing that
we are still underneath of our maximum allowable for the project. With
that six hundred, with a little bit of a cushion, am I correct? Mr. Malekser
said yes, so that puts that at, so that’s still under the $170,000.00.
Councilman Myers said so I need a motion to approve the change order.
Mr. Malesker said change order number 2. A motion was made by
Councilman Noll to approve change order number 2. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Myers said
so be it. Mr. Malesker said I need you to sign there. And then we have
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
Change another change order that we discussed today and has to do with
Order 3 the trees. I think Seth, you have photos. Councilman Noll said
I’d like to pass these around and Sandy put one of these in
the file. What we’ve done, here again I’ll explain. Mr. Malesker
said sure. Councilman Noll said we had twenty five trees in
the original contract, which they were removed. Dana likely
so, knowing that there were other trees that needed to be removed.
We had a lot of rot damage with the trees themselves. We’ve
have gone up and try to have other individual trees removed,
costs of 6,7 hundred dollars to have one tree dropped. And the
contract is for $102.00 per tree so we looked at having an
additional sixteen trees removed, taking it from 25 to 41 trees
removed. Which I think it’s a heck of a steal, probably get two
maybe three dropped if you get outside of this contract. Unfortunately
though that pushes up above that cushion that we had, at this point
by approving this we would be. Mr. Malesker said $947.00 over.
Councilman Noll said over our contract so the borough would be
at this point liable for $947.00 of cost to have these additional 16
trees removed. That doesn’t mean that we can’t find savings of
other things in the contract at a later date but I wanted to bring
this up to get Legend paid, because if not it has to be another month,
to drag it out at a later date. Councilman Myers said how much money
do we have to deal out? Mr. Malesker said $947.00, keep in mind that
September 2nd, right after our last meeting, I put the request in for
additional funds with York County Planning and not heard back, I sent
Joiann an email, she said she was going to look into it. I’ve not heard
back. I did talk to her today, there is money available, they are giving
priority to existing projects that need additional funding. Exactly what
this is. So, there’s a good chance, we may not receive everything that
we ask for but we should be able to at least get the pavilion put back
in. I was hoping to find out by tonight’s meeting but unfortunately,
she couldn’t answer, her director is out of the office right now. So
hopefully there will be additional funding. Councilman Naylor said
are the existing trees damaged or dying or? Councilman Noll said
damaged, some lightening strikes, dead fall. Councilman Naylor said
so that’s a liability problem. Mr. Malesker said exactly, so its basically
a safety issue. Mr. Shearer said a lot of them were in the area of the
pavilion and play equipment that we’re going to be installing. If we
leave them go, and we have to take them down later. Mr. Malesker
said we’ll be paying a lot more than $102.00. Mr. Shearer said then
it becomes trying to get them down over the brand new play equipment.
It just make a lot of sense at $102.00 to get rid of them. Councilman
Naylor said you wouldn’t want them to fall on new playground
equipment. Councilman Allar asked are they going to be taking out
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 21
any of the stumps? Councilman Noll said on Sunday when I was up,
they’ve taken out at least half of them. Councilman Myers said
we need a motion for $947.00. Mr. Malesker said that would be to
Change Order approve Change Order #3 in the amount of $1632.00. Councilman
#3 Noll said with the understanding that at this point the municipality
is $947.00 over, basically responsible for that. Councilman Naylor
made a motion to accept Change Order #3. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Mr. Malesker said I need you to
sign these. The next item is the contractor needs application for payment
Payment #1 in the amount of $16, 148.70. You need a motion to approve Legend
Application Construction’s application for payment #1. Councilman Noll said that
#1 number is 10% of cost, for retain age. He actually submitted for a larger
amount less that 10%. A motion was made by Councilman Noll to
approve Payment #1 in the amount of $16148.70. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Myers said
so be it. Mr. Malesker said that’s that with this. The secretary asked do
I have to sign that? Mr. Malesker said I sign this. The secretary asked
do I get a copy. Mr. Malesker said you get the original, what I do.
The secretary asked that goes to YCPC for payment correct. Mr. Malesker
said I will put it together and then give it to you, on the request form,
with the documents attached and send to you to sign and send it. What
I’d like to do, is take the change orders back, do a transmittal, list all
of these on the transmittal and send it you and copy the contractor.
The secretary asked if I still send them to Joiann Galiano? Mr. Malesker
said to Joiann. Councilman Noll said just so everybody knows, 34 of
those trees have already been dropped. They’ve pulled about half of the
stumps out at this point. The underground electric is in, into the
pavilion. The trench is in to the maintenance shed and restrooms.
Things are progressing very well. Councilman Naylor asked about buying
the wood for firewood? Councilman Noll said they will make you a
heck of a deal. They were going to try and sell them but there are a lot
of black spots in the trees. They are all nails. They want to try to get rid
of the nails. Councilman Myers said you know if they cut them into
ten foot sections, they could call H & H. Mr. Malesker said H & H has
already been there three times. Mr. Shearer said were trying to sell the
others for lumber. Councilman Noll said that is why we got such a
phenomenal price because they are trying to sell them. That’s all I have
the park. The secretary asked did you get verification on when we are
going to get the money from DCNR? Mr. Malesker said we can check
again. The secretary said I haven’t gotten the money yet. Mr. Malesker
said I’ll make a note to call again. They knew that the project was
awarded. The secretary said as long they don’t get a bill for it, I’ll
be okay, if not I’m not going to be in good shape. Mr. Malesker said
the equipment is on its way. The secretary said I need the money. Mr.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
Malesker said I will call them tomorrow.
Stormwater Mr. Malesker said also attached to this report, last month we talked about
Condition doing a borough wide storm water condition assessment. So attached to
Assessment this is a engineering cost estimate. For you to take a look at it, you don’t need to take any action on it tonight. Unless you want to. I just wanted
to let you see what the scope would be and the cost to do that. If you want
to take some time to look that over and if you have questions. Councilman
Noll asked this 17,500 is this the grant application filled out, or is this
the pre work for the grant application. Mr. Malesker said this is all the pre
work, it would be anticipated that the grant application would spread
among, if Dallastown Yoe Water gets involved, if Dallastown Borough
gets involved, then it would be spread among all the municipalities
applying for it. Councilman Noll said so this is just the pre work attached
to it. Mr. Malesker said yes. Councilman Allar asked how long to do this?
Mr. Malesker said maybe two months. And the price, this is actually a
very big project. This price may seem cheap. What we are trying to do,
we have existing surveys, and permission able readiness, incorporate
what we already have already. Try to keep that price as far down as we
can. Councilman Naylor asked we will televise all the pipes that we can?
Mr. Malesker said yes. Councilman Naylor asked top to bottom. Mr.
Malesker said everything we can take a look at. Councilman Allar
said for the engineer, the other municipalities, based on discussion
from last month, I contacted Ron Smith from Dallastown Council.
Not a lot of interest from Dallastown Borough. Contacted some people
on council from Red Lion, they were very interested in what the H2O
program is. Apparently they are having storm water issues as well.
I think at least 50/50, I think at least Red Lion Borough, Yoe Borough,
and Yoe Water Authority. The regulations for the H20, it talks about
regionalization. Again the systems do not have to be connected. There
has to be some sort of Authority, over it all. Which would show this
as a regional project. So how we dummy that up, remains to be seen.
Right now we’re just trying to get the interest of the other different
municipalities to join. Steve and I talked about, Steve said we would
save a whole bundle of engineering dollars if we did that. We also,
half of the money is earmarked for regional projects. The only thing
about bringing in Red Lion is, we would have Waugh and we would
have Miller but then we would bring in Saylor. So we would have a little
more political clout. Again, Steve correct me if I’m wrong, its very
competitive. There is a lot of money there but its still very competitive.
And if we get it, we’re not sure of what we’re going to be getting.
If you any of you have contact, especially with Dallastown. The mayor up
there for example. If we could get them interested in joining us with
this H20 thing. It may increase our chances. Councilman Noll asked
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
should we include York Township in any of this? Councilman Allar
said we could as long as we remain in control, you want to increase
your chances. I’m sure they could bring in a 20 million project which
is the upper limit based on the stuff they have. So anyway I just
wanted to give you the Red Lion update.
Patch Mr. Malesker said I just wanted to give you an update on the patch on
on W. W. George Street, you asked me to send a letter out saying that Yoe
George St. Borough did not feel it was their responsibility to participate financially
in any of that work since the borough did not authorize the work to
commence. So that letter did send out. The secretary said I just got
Dennis’s here today, but that isn’t Dennis’s address so I’ll have to
get that forwarded to him, Dennis Grove. Mr. Malesker said right.
The secretary said I’ll make sure Dana delivers that tomorrow.
Councilman Noll asked did you send that also to York Township.
Mr. Malesker said it went to Bob Miller. Councilman Noll said
they don’t want anything to do with it. Mr. Malekser said I heard
that they didn’t even want to send a letter to say that they are.
Councilman Noll said the only thing that I would ask, with that
being a state road and it does pretty much look like its our liability
when we need to have that fixed, with it being near October 15th,
we’ll be stuck until April 1 because of their state road paving
specs. Because we might have to patch it, rip it out and patch
it again, to get it through the winter. Then we are paying for it
twice. Mr. Malesker said well other than who said you would
have to pay for it. Councilman Naylor said no one else seems to
want to do it. Councilman Noll said that is my concern, if
we’re going to get saddle with this thing, I don’t want to pay
for it twice. Mr. Malekser said you should have seen the letter
that Rick Resh, sent out on behalf on the York Township
Sewer Board asking PENN DOT to pay for it. So. The secretary
said that might be in the circulate file. Mr. Malesker said
Sam was copied on it. The secretary said it may have gone
to his house too. Councilman Noll said that’s my only
concern to figure out how we are doing this. Mr. Malesker
said if we use liquid fuels funds to pay for the patch, that
should be done by the 15th. Contractors are going to be
making superpave because there are projects going on. As
long as we can get superpave we can drop a patch in. Councilman
Noll said it’s a very small window. Mr. Malesker said there
has been instances where Municipal Services have approved
after October 15th. Councilman Noll said also are we going to have an
issue like we did up here now, the road cut everything like with the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
water authority, to repair that, with PENN DOT. Mr. Malesker said
yeah I think that is correct. Mr. Shearer said I think you should
contact John Glatfelter. Mr. Malesker said he’s retired now. Mr.
Shearer said whomever is handling that. Mr. Malesker said that’s
who Rick Resh, that is actually whom he sent the letter to, the
permits officer. Mr. Shearer said there should have been a HOP
to dig there. Mr. Malesker said there should have been, yeah.
Mr. Shearer said that was the whole reason that they did that
house with a bore, they didn’t want to have it to be dug, even
though the bore and hole aren’t related. They had an issue and
they proceeded to Aaron Enterprises. Mr. Malekser said PENN
DOT was out there too. They were there. Councilman Noll said
I guess I don’t want to get into any further issues with PENN DOT
but they did come out. Councilman Naylor said digging it up
and repairing it and paving it by October 15th? Mr. Malesker said
no one is willing to take responsibility for it. We haven’t heard back
from PENN DOT yet. Councilman Noll said I don’t want it to become
a liability to Yoe Borough, if there is an accident, not be a party to
lawsuit. I just bring it up so. Councilman Naylor said maybe patch
it for the winter. And redoing it in the spring. Councilman Noll said
at this point, redoing the patch is useless. Mr. Malesker said I think
they said they weren’t able to properly compact the patch because
there was the storm coming. Mr. Shearer said there was a thunderstorm
moving in , it rained hard that afternoon. The pipe is still there. Mr.
Malesker said the pipe is still there and it has a hole in it and no one
knows where it comes from. Councilman Naylor asked was there water
flowing through that pipe at that time? Mr. Shearer said there was
a trickle coming through, from what Mark Clark said there was actually
water coming out of it. Councilman Naylor said so we can’t just
block that pipe right there. Councilman Noll said and find out where
it comes out of. Councilman Naylor said what I’m saying does that pipe
need to repair before even considering if it is going to go beyond that
dirt, we need to get down there and fix that pipe, if its not repairable
whose responsible for it. Mr. Malesker said yeah you’ll just have to
drill a hole. Councilman Naylor said if we got to get down there and
fix that pipe, if we do get hung up with something terrible who will
be responsible. Patch it for the winter and find out who is liable for it.
Councilman Myers said they can make you do it, because the sewer
was the one who dug it up originally. Mr. Malesker said they coincided
with the borough. Councilman Myers said right now we told them its
not our responsibility. They’re not going to go down and fix the storm
pipe. Mr. Malesker said we don’t know if it’s a storm pipe, we don’t
know what it is. Mr. Shearer said that’s the thing. Mr. Malesker said it
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
could be a pipe from someone’s basement, a sump pump. Councilman
Noll said the only way that we’re going to know for sure is to open
it up and then you have to pay to close it back up anyway. Councilman
Naylor asked is it necessary to find out where its coming from, dig
it up, take care of the pipe? If we end up. Councilman Myers said if
we end up doing it, if we’re going to dig it up I have no problem with
us repairing the pipe but if we dig it up we ought to find out where that
pipe is going. If we have a hole there, camera up and say. Councilman
Naylor said if its something that take the time to camera it. Councilman
Myers said in the past when whenever we had or we thought we had
storm drains that were worn out and then we got it done. I think, in my
opinion, we have the opportunity if we think there is any pipe there,
when we have it open. Even if we fix it, we take the liability for it. So.
Might as well find out where its going because it may be yours and
again it may not be yours and then we can go back on say, here’s the
bill. You know what I’m saying. Once you make the repair its your
baby. Councilman Noll said at this point, final inspection we all
read the letter, potential. Mr. Malesker said its getting pretty bad.
Councilman Noll said it tends to get more water running through and
its still sinking. Councilman Naylor asked how long it has been?
Councilman Noll said since August beginning of August, end of July.
Councilman Myers said I know we sent a letter to our sewer authority.
Right? Didn’t we send a letter to our sewer authority? Mr. Malesker
said it was a lot of parties copied with it including the sewer authority.
Councilman Myers asked who was the letter addressed to? Mr. Malesker
said York Township Water and Sewer Authority, Bob Miller at York
Township, Oakwood Homes, Aaron Enterprises, Yoe Borough Sewer
Authority(Dennis Grove), Mark Clark. The secretary said they sent it
Dennis Grove but he’ll have to move it on. Councilman Noll asked do
they have a meeting coming up? The secretary said December is the
next meeting. I understand I heard that Mr. Smith said, no way that
they paying that bill. Mr. Malesker said it also went to Mark Clark.
Mr. Shearer said he heard, it isn’t our hole to fix. Councilman Allar
asked who initiated this? Mr. Shearer asked for Aaron Enterprises
to do the work? It came from Mark Clark at Holley’s office. Because
they were doing a bore and it happened to be in that location. Mr.
Malesker said right, it coincided with the time that they did the bore.
Mr. Shearer said not too long after the bore. The initially hole was in
line with York Township’s sewer so, that’s why okay, the whole time
frame was, I get a call from somebody over at the fire company that
a citizen stopped in early in the morning. I get out and look at it and
sure enough there is a hole. Small hole. My first call was to PENN DOT,
reporting a sink hole in the road. Second call was to Mark Clark, I don’t
know whats going on here Mark but its awful close to this manhole. At
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
that time I didn’t realize that was actually storm sewer. Councilman
Allar from PENN DOT? Mr. Shearer said no Mark Clark is the field
guy from Holley’s office. Mark Clark is from Holley’s office that
does all the field work for Yoe Borough Sewer Authority here in
town. He does all that here in town. So I called Mark Clark to give
him the heads up. I called the water authority, just because you know,
when you see a hole like, you know its coming from underground,
something is going on. Knowing that we didn’t have, to the best
of my knowledge, there is no inlet on the upper side of that hole,
to the lower side of that hole. There is an inlet on the other side of
that hole. But to the best of my knowledge we didn’t have a pipe that
came through that area. So I called all of them, nothing was really
getting going. Called Mark a few times, called PENN DOT a few
times. Called up and talked to Bob Miller. I don’t if you can get
something done. Because we were still assuming at that time, that
this was the latest thing when that happened. So, that’s why, the
sewer authority told the contractor, you’ve got to dig this up. Councilman
Allar asked how could they do that without someone there from PENN
DOT? Mr. Shearer said that’s what I’m saying somewhere along the
line PENN DOT would have had to give ACP to dig that up. Something.
Councilman Noll said legally they should have, whether it happened or
not. We don’t have paperwork. Mr. Shearer said and on the day it was
opened up, Mark Clark was there and a representative from PENN DOT
was standing there. And the representative from PENN DOT told them
you put this in and you put this pack it down like this. I don’t have Mark’s
notes in front of me at the moment, he did forward it to me the
information. So. Councilman Naylor said do you know if its above or
below the sewer line? Mr. Shearer said from what he told me, he seemed
to think that it was actually I guess it was, it was below, I’m sure it was
below that sewer line or above. Truthfully I couldn’t tell you that right
now without looking at his note. Councilman Naylor said what is it going
to cost to bring it back up, fixing the pipe and the whole nine yards.
Councilman Allar said one thing at a time, before there was a bill, this
letter was still correct. It doesn’t seem like we have any responsibility.
Councilman Naylor said maybe because we didn’t authorize it, it doesn’t
mean that its not our responsibility. Councilman Allar said the second
issue, is the. Mr. Malesker said is what to do now? You can say you
don’t pay that bill but then what do you do to fix it. Councilman Allar
asked how much was the bill? Mr. Malesker said four thousand I think.
Councilman Myers said they only fixed it half. The secretary said because
the storm was coming, they closed it up. Councilman Myers said that’s
a lot of money in a hole. Mayor Sanford asked did they make any
indication that they were going to come back to make it right after
they said they only did it half. Mr. Shearer said that was the initial
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
letter from Aaron Enterprises that we sunk four thousand dollars into
this, we did this because it was suppose to be a sewer problem, its not
a sewer problem, we want someone to cough of money now because
we’re not coming back to do anything else until we get paid for what
we already have into the project. Councilman Naylor said it was a problem
that wasn’t created by them. Councilman Myers said whoever takes
responsibility for that pipe. Mr. Shearer said that’s. Councilman Noll said
and that’s why I think its worth, to camera it, to find out if it belongs
to homeowner or whomever. Until we do something its just going to
sit there and fester. Its just in a bad spot. Councilman Myers said
do you have any idea where it comes out at? Mr. Malesker said there
is no outlet. Mr. Shearer said not that I found. Councilman Noll said
we assume that is probably runs to the creek. At some point, to some
other pipe. Councilman Naylor said I wonder if PENN DOT would have
any flexibility with winter coming , know with liability with snow coming.
Councilman Myers said Steve, if we find out its our problem, we have
to put out four thousand dollars right? You think? Councilman Allar said
not necessarily, again. Councilman Myers said we didn’t authorize, we
didn’t tell them to do that. Councilman Allar said I mean, if circumstances
develop, at least, in some way our responsibility, maybe its not our
responsibility, but I don’t up to this point, we didn’t order it. Councilman
Noll said that’s not what I’m saying that we pay that bill, I’m saying that
we need some solution. Councilman Allar said that’s true. Councilman
Myers said well, make a motion to dig that darn thing up fix the pipe.
If we don’t, it belongs to us, I can’t imagine it belongs to us. Mr. Malesker
said that would be your contribution to the project by fixing it, not that
you’re responsible for the bill. Councilman Myers said tell everybody
that, whoever that send us that bill for four thousand dollars, we’re going
to find out what the problem is, which they should have did that day even
though there was a rain issue. Councilman Naylor said I agree. Mr.
Shearer said their patch was under the direction of PENN DOT. They
were looking at the PENN DOT rep standing there. Councilman Myers
said this is crazy. Steve, did PENN DOT get a letter. Mr. Malesker
said PENN DOT got a letter from. The secretary said this letter here,
to Ed Johnson. Councilman Myers said what happens if we send PENN
DOT a letter saying hey you’re street is sinking, fix it. You need to fix
it its your street. Yoe Borough has no records of a storm drain in that
area. Mr. Malesker said what Rick is asking here is that we are
requesting that PENN DOT perform final surface restoration and continue
to monitor settlement in this area. This was sent to PENN DOT on
September 28th. Councilman Myers asked who is Rick, a representative?
Mr. Malesker asked Rick Resh? Councilman Myers said yes. Mr.
Malesker said he’s with C. S. Davidson, he wrote that on behalf of
York Township Sewer Authority. Councilman Allar said is there
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
chance of PENN DOT doing anything about the sinkhole. Once
we get into it, we are taking this upon our selves. Councilman
Myers said right. Councilman Allar said we know crystal clear,
we are going to own that sink hole forever. Councilman Myer said
maybe we should send a letter to PENN DOT saying we are not
familiar with any storm drains in the area. Councilman Allar said
if PENN DOT comes in and digs the hole and sends a camera up
there and finds that we’re responsible, that’s a different matter.
Councilman Myers said right. Mayor Sanford said I wouldn’t say
we don’t believe so, we should say its not ours, positively not ours.
Let them show. Mr. Shearer said we don’t have a drain. Mr. Malesker
said it does not tie into a drain. Mr. Shearer said we don’t have any
drains on that side of the street. Councilman Myers said there are no
drains up there at all. Mr. Shearer said on any where back up in here.
Councilman Myers made a motion that Steve sends a letter to PENN
DOT saying that we have no drains in the area. Does the letter mention
a pipe there? Mr. Malekser said I don’t think the letter mentions a
pipe. Mr. Shearer said just for everyone’s info, right beside the alley,
are the two right here at the end of Maple Street. Thanks for the fire
company, we dumped water in there, it runs under the road, down
past Shaffers, it did run that way. Councilman Myers said I make a
motion that Steve sends a letter to PENN DOT, copy whomever
he thinks needs to be copied, Yoe Borough has not record of storm
drains or pipes in the area, coming down the pike, we do not feel
that the sink hole that is being there, that its their problem not ours.
Like John said if they come and tv camera it and it comes up to,
for some crazy reason, comes up to one of those drains, then we’ll
deal with it at the time. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.
All in favor. Councilman Noll said should we also put in there that we
assume the liability at this point. Councilman Allar said I wouldn’t do
that. Councilman Noll said whatever you feel is appropriate Steve.
Councilman Myers said you can walk up the hall to Rick Resh and give
him a copy of the letter, maybe lay a donut on top of it. Mr. Malesker
said do you want me as I get that letter, do you also want me to respond
to Mr. Gillespie. Councilman Myers said yes, we need to respond.
Mr. Malesker said I should say. Councilman Myers said say that
we’re investigating it. Mr. Malesker said and ask for some additional time.
Councilman Myers said right. See what he says. Councilman Myers said
and maybe copy Mr. Larry Johnson. Mr. Malesker asked for his wife’s
name. The secretary said LaTasha. Mr. Malesker said so, give a temporary
construction easement in case we do have to excavate. So you are going
to contact Teli? Mr. Shearer said yes. Mr. Malesker said I gave you those
die packets, if you need me for something call me. I think you and Teli
can handle that. Councilman Myers said you may want to copy Pete on
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
that one. That’s all I have unless there’s. Councilman Myers
asked anything else for the engineer?
As builts Councilman Allar said Steve, you have on here, need approval
And Stakeout for C. S. Davidson to prepare the as builts and stake outs for
For the the flood impoundment area. Are you looking for approval on
Flood that tonight? Mr. Malesker said yeah we can do that tonight.
Impoundment Its going to be awhile until that’s up. Councilman Allar said
Area this is already in our estimates, this isn’t additional engineering?
Mr. Malesker said no its not, its with the initial estimate.
Councilman Allar said is that something, you don’t do that
type of work? Mr. Malesker said the stake out will be done before.
The as built will be done later. Councilman Allar said there’s
actually two different phases. Its up to you, if you think you’ll
need it. As long as there is no extra cost, I don’t mind. I make
a motion that C. S. Davidson prepare the as builts, actually
if it was part of original estimate it was already approved.
Councilman Noll said it was already approved. Councilman
Myers said right. Mr. Malesker said I just wanted to run that
by you and make sure you were aware that we were going to be
performing it, the services. Councilman Myers said okay.
Basin Loose Councilman Allar said this some loose ends connected with the
Ends basin. I mentioned I talked to Miller at York Township. He’s not
in any particular rush in getting the contract out for the Mill
Creek Preservation. The wetland item would be a line item
for the contract. So I just wanted to let you know. However
item 2, on that cease and desist order from the Army Corps
of Engineer’s was the wetland mitigation plan. So we’re still
on the hook for that. As part of the original Army Corps of
Engineer letter. What I’m saying is, are you and Jake working
on that? Mr. Malesker said well, once we get the letter from
Danko, cause he had said. Councilman Allar said you have the
verbal. Mr. Malesker said we have the verbal but need the letter,
because he is giving us some conditions on it. But then we will
work with Jake to see what he wants to handle and what he’s
not comfortable handling, so we’ll work with that. Councilman
Allar said stay close on that. The other thing too, a reminder
I talked to Bob on this too, we’re going to have to scope out
the sewer laterals. He has got the cameras. What I worked out with
him, its not going to cost us anything except a township employee’s
time, he does want someone from the borough probably Dana to
be out there when it happens. Everything is above water, to see
where the sewer laterals are. Anytime spent by township would
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
be billed to that maintenance agreement. So he’s comfortable
with that. He’s got the equipment, its going to take maybe
a day. Its just something that we just wanted to make sure
that we don’t overlook. Mr. Malesker asked you are coordinating
all of that? Councilman Allar said yes, I can coordinate that.
I guess what it is, keep that in mind. You let me know, I can
coordinate with Dana a time to get the cameras down. Mr.
Malesker said so it would be the first or second week of
November then that would be done. Councilman Allar said
okay. In the past, himself or Tim, Bob is busy, whatever is good
to do. Councilman Naylor said Bob is more with the sewers.
Bob is in charge with the cameraing. Councilman Allar said you
might want to wait a week then send him an email. So. Those
are just two items.
EAP Mayor Sanford asked do you have that plan finalized, the Emergency
Action Plan. Mr. Malesker said no, Sandy has requested from
Holley and Associates, the dam breech analysis. I saw the email,
that he’s not going to accept the old impoundment map so we
need to do a new one. To do the new one, we either need the old
dam breech analysis or do a new one. I don’t want to have to do
a new one so Sandy was able to get a hold of Dennis Sarpen so
we will be able to use the original breech analysis. It has top
quad on it, so we will use topo quad maps, use the elevations that
they have outlined and get it submitted. Unfortunately, we are
going to have expend some money to make the map so. But hopefully
it will be minimal. When we hear from Holley and Associates, we
will have what we need, it is just a matter of chartering it out on the
the topo map and get it in.
Erosion of Councilman Allar asked, Steve did you ever check with Jason, we talked
the Bank about the erosion on the bank. Mr. Malesker said yes that’s being
addressed as far as I know.
Act 167 Councilman Allar asked were you able to find out from Jeff about that
Act 537 Act 167 and 537. Mr. Malesker said I talked to Jeff about the those,
you do have an Act, either one of those, it would have been prior to
us being the engineer. But, he did think you had an Act 537. Well
actually he’s doing an act 537 for York County. Its not approved
yet. There is one that Yoe Borough can use as a finding. I’m sorry
that’s the 167 that is being done. 537, we’re doubtful that there was
one done specifically for Yoe Borough also. You may need to
check with Holley and Associates on that. Councilman Allar asked
the 537 is what? Mr. Malesker said it’s the sewer. Act 167 is the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
storm water. Councilman Allar asked did you talk to Rick Resh
on that? Mr. Malesker said he wasn’t sure. Councilman Allar said
these are items if they exist I need to gather it up for the comp
plan. Mr. Malesker said and of course you wouldn’t have the land
use, an official land use map if you don’t have a comp plan because
those go hand in hand. Councilman Allar asked said you said
that Act 167 is going to be a county one that we can use. Mr. Malesker
said yes, not approved yet. Councilman Allar said that would have
to do with what, its not sewer. Mr. Malesker said its storm water
management. Councilman Allar said so really we don’t have either
one of these. Mr. Malesker said no. Councilman Allar said that’s
all I need.
DCED Councilman Noll said I heard through the grapevine that DCED
Reimburse may be doing a reimbursement for any costs incurred for
the floodplain ordinance. Have you checked into that, are there
any other municipalities? Mr. Malesker said yes. Councilman
Noll asked are we doing that? Mr. Malesker said yeah, there is
correspondence out there, sounds like the reimbursement won’t
get here until two years. Councilman Noll said correct, I heard
its not right away but better than losing it. Councilman Myers said
I saw where the paperwork may cost you more. Someone has
to make that decision. I heard that rumor. Mr. Malesker said we
were looking into for the municipalities that we did the floodplain
ordinance for. Councilman Myers said so maybe down the road
but be careful that we don’t pay $20.00 to get $10.00 back.
Federal Councilman Noll said the only other thing I had was federal mandate
Mandate on street signs require them to be nine inch by 2010, so while
we are changing our signs out. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Malesker said I know there is new guidelines. Mr. Shearer
asked street name signs? Councilman Noll said street name signs.
Councilman Naylor said nine inches high, the letter signs or?
Councilman Myers said I thought that was just at the state roads
where you had a crossing? Mr. Shearer said we’re doing whatever
is current now. Councilman Howett asked if we should put a sign
at the sink hole, where the dip is getting bigger. Like Dip Ahead.
Mr. Shearer said we are putting up eight inch. Councilman Noll
said they are suppose to be nine inch in 2010 all signs have to
be changed out. Councilman Myers said yeah, you had to get
permission from the state to do that, but they tell you have to
put all the signs up. Councilman Naylor said I didn’t think they
were that all. Mr. Shearer said I have to check that. Discussion
continued. Councilman Noll said that’s all I had. Councilman
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 32
Myers asked anything else for Steve?
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Myers asked Dave can you read the zoning officer’s
Councilman Naylor reported dropped off information for the council meeting, looked
at sidewalk at 194 S. Main Street with Dana, dropped off stormwater infiltration pit
to Neil Shaffer, compliance at 275 W. George Street photographed building and
parking lot. Sent copies to York County Assessment. Drop filed off paperwork and
talked to Sandy about Yoe Borough Park Improvement. On the 22nd met with Seth,
Steve and Dana about park building permiting project. 29th talked to Joan Schaull.
Total hours 3 ½ and total miles 16.
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Mayor Sanford said I’ll try to attend the damage assessment, I am familiar with and
have actually have done work for the borough. Its very time consuming. Barry has
done them also.
The secretary asked when we’re getting bills for the radio. Mayor Sanford said
I don’t know. Councilman Myers said I don’t know. The secretary asked if we
need to budget for them for next year, we are having budget workshop this month.
We will need an answer. Mayor Sanford said I’ll find out.
Leaf Pick Mr. Shearer reported that leaf pick up with Dallastown for two days
Up seems like it would be easier if we went back for pick for two days.
Talked to Teli and we worked it out for November 4 and November
18th. Trying to work in with their schedule with what they have at
the end of October before Thanksgiving, trying to get everything
we can picked up before we get into December. Have Sam to
advertise that in the paper and have Bruce to add that to the
website. Mayor Sanford asked if we need them would they come
back in December? Mr. Shearer said he’s pretty adamant that he’s
going to try to get everything wrapped up, he wants to get his
trucks converted over. Whether there is late leaves in the fall,
it kind of looks that way. Mayor Sanford said that’s my concern.
Mr. Shearer said it kind of looks that way, I know last year,
and with the township they were cindering in the morning and
picking up leaves in the afternoon. That’s what he’s trying to
avoid because he wants to get the trucks ready for winter. But
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 33
there is a fine line in the end of leaf season and beginning of plow
season. So. Mayor Sanford said so that would be a maybe. Mr.
Shearer said that would be a maybe. If at best I can try to convince,
he might be able to provide a second truck. Councilman Naylor
asked when is the last leaf pick up, do they go beyond the eighteenth?
Mr. Shearer said I think the following week after that is going
to be the last week of November, and Thanksgiving, he’s going to
try more and likely, finish up what he’s got because of Thanksgiving
holiday so he can get converted over. Councilman Naylor said the
weather can cause trouble. Mr. Shearer said that’s it, you know, that’s
kind of the downside of setting dates, kind of hit or miss. So. The
secretary said I’ll put it on my answering machine and I’ll let Sam
know, he’ll probably call tomorrow.
Sheriff’s Mr. Shearer said like Tom said last month, got the Sheriff’s Department
Dept. in with a work crew. We did get them in there. Councilman Myers said
you did a good job Dana. Mr. Shearer said they did a great job. I just
cut up some of the trees. A lot of the little stuff, were cut with hand
saws and drug out. They were in again today, they’ll be back again
tomorrow. Going to remove trees again around the end of basin number
2. Basically Basin Number 1 is complete at this time. As far as removal
of trees, everything. Red Lion will be sending a truck down and
chipper down. One day the crew will drag material to the guys so they
can get it chipped up. They agreed to lend us the truck and chipper
so the product going to their borough is the mulch. As far as getting
rid of that.
Snow Councilman Myers asked do you talk to them about hiring somebody
Removal do you have a name? Mr. Shearer said you said you wanted to find
Personnel somebody. Councilman Myers said I did find somebody, talked to
him on Sunday. Mr. Shearer said that was your ball game right.
Councilman Myers said I can show you in the minutes it says Barry
and Dana. Councilman Howett said hey Dana, that means you.
Councilman Myers said we actually did talk to Rick Searle. We
thought about him because number one, he was a Yoeite, he grew
up in Yoe, he knows the streets, he knows how to handle equipment
because he’s been in construction. And actually if I remember a long
long time ago, he use to help out, every now and then. This goes back
years that he helped out, I’d have to ask him, but we can talk about that.
Mayor Sanford said Scott Henry is also interested, he works for Yoe
Ambulance and lives in Dallastown. Councilman Myers said so we
can hire one or two whatever you want since they are interested.
The secretary said I’ll need their licenses for the insurance company
and contact information for 911 if you decide to do that. Did you
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 34
establish how much you’ll be paying them? Councilman Myers said
whatever we were making, I didn’t tell them anything. The secretary
said I have to say this but you were not paid anything, so we didn’t
have a pay rate. Councilman Myers said we did agree there was price.
The secretary said two or three years ago, I don’t have. Councilman
Myers said we just did it last year. Mr. Shearer said I don’t how
long its been. The secretary said that list has been like that for three
years. Councilman Myers said I know that, but the salary range.
The secretary said that was a long time ago, and I have to refer
back to the minutes, I never paid you. You never turned a paper
in so I never paid you. Councilman Myers said what did we agree
to we talked about it last year. The secretary said we talked about
it three years ago, yes. Do you want to keep it at that rate, I have
to look back. Councilman Myers said it was $15.00 an hour.
The secretary said yeah right. Councilman Myers said I’m serious.
The secretary said I’m thinking about $9.00 to $10.00 an hour.
Mr. Shearer said if I remember Ronnie made the motion. Councilman
Myers said it was up there. The secretary said I think we should redo
it so we have it as new record. Councilman Naylor said is that using
our equipment. Councilman Myers said yeah. The secretary asked
is your name coming off of there and George’s? Councilman Myers said
keep mine and Georges on there for now on the bottom. Mayor Sanford
said move mine down. Councilman Myers said yeah and move John’s
down. The secretary said okay. George, then Barry, then John. Okay.
Councilman Myers said further down the better. The secretary said
then all I need is their contact numbers, fill out, you are saying between
fourteen and fifteen dollars. I need to get that into 911, so I need the
answer. Councilman Myers said I can give you the phone numbers:
Rick Searle: Home: 246-2742; Cell: 324-3968, Scott Henry: Home:
246-5179, Cell: 858-9823. The secretary asked does Scott Henry
live in the borough? Mayor Sanford said no. The secretary said to
send him a W-4, I need his address then. Rick Searle lives in the
borough, correct. And you’re saying between fourteen and fifteen
dollars an hour. Mr. Shearer said if you want to continue we can
come back to that. The secretary said thank you Dana.
Mayor And Police Report
July Mayor Sanford said the police report for July, I’ll just let you copy
Police Report this for the sake of time. The secretary asked what? Mayor Sanford
said I just give you a copy. The secretary said it has to be part of
the minutes. The calls: 20, traffic citations: 97, summary citations:
3, 1 juvenile arrest, 1 misdemeanor arrest. Service hours: 73 and
Administrative hours: 37. 98.
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 35
August Mayor Sanford reported the police report for August: 34 calls,
Police Report 4 accidents, 55 traffic citations, 1 summary citation,2 misdemeanor
felony arrest, 4 juvenile arrests. Service hours: 59.5 and Adminstrative
Corres- Mayor Sanford reported I gave some stuff to Dana, technical bulletins.
Proposed Mayor Sanford said I have proposed contract amount for York Area
Contract Regional Police for 2010, per unit is $32,998.00. We get two units
so that is going to cost $65,996.00. Councilman Myers asked so
about how much did that go up? The secretary said approximately
5%. The secretary said its been going up approximately 5% each
Snow Mayor Sanford said we received information from Channel 8 and
Emer- and Fox 43 for snow emergency. Councilman Naylor said do you
gency have any radio stations that you contact? Mayor Sanford said not
that I’m aware of, I’d have to check with Sam. Councilman Naylor
said I think that would be helpful. Mayor Sanford said we use
to call radio stations. I’m not sure now, Sam usually does that.
Check with him. Councilman Myers said it wouldn’t hurt.
Office The secretary reported the office will be closed October 23 and
Closing October 30th.
Trick The secretary reported Trick or Treat night is October 31st,
or Treat from 6 to 8PM. Please leave your porch light on if you plan
Night to participate.
State The secretary reported that the State Liquid Fuels Audit was
Liquid conducted for 2007 and 2008, with no deficiencies found.
PA The secretary said the Pennsylvania Worker’s Compensation
Workers Bureau was here on September 30th to perform an audit.
Budget The secretary said we need to set a budget workshop date.
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 36
Councilman Noll said two things. One if you aware of this, its coming up
in a lot of audits and things. You need charge tax on things we sell, like
recycling bins. Its becoming a huge issue with a lot of the municipalities.
If you are interested, the next Municipal Finance Managers meeting will
meet at York Township. The secretary asked for the date, October 22nd
isn’t it. Councilman Noll said probably. The secretary said I’ll be on
vacation when that is. Councilman Noll said I just wanted to let you know.
The secretary said I saw that. Councilman Noll said we may be required
because of the open records, we may need to post on our website, the name,
position, department and salary of anyone that works in the municipality.
Councilman Myers said you have to have it on the website or just have
it here. Councilman Noll said they said on the website, as York Township
is involved. The secretary said I didn’t see anything about that, I get
a lawyer from up in Harrisburg who sends updates, I haven’t seen anything
from there. Councilman Myers said if you keep it in a three ring binder, that’s
Comp Plan Councilman Allar said things are picking up on the Comp Plan
And on the Rail Trail. I’ll do the Rail Trail first. There is going to
Rail Trail be a mailer going out to Yoe looking something like this.
Its actually a survey, to put your comments and stuff down
to the consultant. There is going to be an open house and that
will be announced in that flyer too. Dallastown Fire Company,
November 18th from 12 to 8PM for the Rail Trail. Unless
you don’t know anything that has happened up to this point,
Dave you may be the only one. You can find out at the open
house or I’ll talk to you later. Comp Plan. Wednesday the
seventh, tomorrow. I’m going to give you a lot of dates for
the comp plan. First date is October 7th, tomorrow, Wednesday
at 10 o’clock at Yoe Borough. We are going to be developing
the questionnaire that will go out to the three boroughs.
Now Dallastown volunteered to do the labels and Sandy got
them. Sandy is going to need to some money to for postage
and envelopes, about $200.00. I won’t make a motion now
because I have something else to add to that. We are going
to figure what kinds of questions that we can have on that
survey. Now, the important meeting is Tuesday November
17th, there will be a committee meeting at six at the Dallastown
Municipal Building, followed by a public meeting at seven.
Its at that public meeting, and again its for all three boroughs,
its at the public meeting that this Tri Boro Comprehensive
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 37
Plan process will be explained by the contractor. And it also a
meeting where they are trying to get community input. Now
along the line of getting community input, I’d like to do a flyer.
I talked to a printer, who can do about 500 of these things and
make them out before hand for roughly three hundred dollars.
So with what Sandy needs and I need, we talking roughly about
$500.00. But we don’t do any outreach in the community, I’m
sure that there is no one in the town here that knows anything
about the comp plan. I can’t think of any other way, we can put
it on the website, Jolie Harrington will have a two liner in the
paper probably no one will really see it. So I’d really like to
do this flyer, and hopefully enough people will have some input.
That’s will be Tuesday November 17th in Dallastown. We have
another committee meeting Wednesday November 25th at
10AM that will also be in Dallastown and Wednesday the 23rd
of December at 10AM in Yoe Borough. Anyone who wants to
get involved with this comp plan process or at least understand
it should start to take in some of these meetings. There are
things that are going to be decided, I don’t mind going ahead
in this and making decision but I do mind a year from now people
are going to sharp shoot me because you know, no one wanted
to get involved and they didn’t like what I did, so. Open it up
here, these are all committee meetings, come to them. So anyway
that’s what we have scheduled for this year. A motion was made
by Councilman Allar to expend $500.00 to get these flyers out.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Councilman Myers asked any discussion at all? Councilman
Naylor asked were you able to shop around for prices at all?
Councilman Allar said Sandy gave me a name of one that we
have an account with and so actually to answer the question, no.
Connie in Dallastown, the secretary up there her son is in the
printing business. The one that I know is Nefra. Councilman
Myers said we use them at work. I’ll try to make it a little bit
colorful, to put them on door knobs. Dana is willing to have
ARD to go out and hang them on the doors. Councilman Myers
said you can shop around and see, but Nefra from our experience,
at work, they have good quality, when it comes to multi colored
or colored. Councilman Allar said they’ll design the hanger and
do it with color. And again, this is something that data collection,
I have to do, is getting the survey off the ground.
New Business Page 38
Budget Councilman Myers said okay new business. First thing is budget
Workshop meeting, when do you want to do a budget meeting, dates?
Councilman Myers said I know I can’t be or Sam can’t be here,
the twentieth. The twentieth is no good. Councilman Noll asked
how bout the nineteenth that Monday. Councilman Myers said
I have fire company that night. Mondays are really bad for me.
It was decided to hold budget workshop on Tuesday October
27th at 6PM. The secretary will advertise the workshop. Just make
sure what you want done for next year, have estimates.
Tax Councilman Myers said Sandy put into everyone’s packet, I’m
Collection not sure what this is all about, I even asked Pete. Tax collection
Meeting meeting, I have no clue what that’s about. The secretary said
its from York Adams Tax Bureau. Councilman Myers said yeah,
but it says something is going on. That is the one, they named
Bruce Manns, he was already the person. I just copied it for
everyone, he’s phasing out, I didn’t know if someone wants
to go for the borough or not. Councilman Myers said I use
to go for the borough. The secretary said its some kind of new
thing. Councilman Myers said yes. It’s a new committee, its
Act 32. Its on October 15th, I’ll try to go, I’ll put it in here.
Uncertified Councilman Myers said is this an ordinance. The secretary said
Buildings that was what Pete was talking about. Councilman Noll said
Ordinance it has to be advertised. The secretary said you have to give the
Advertise okay to have it advertised, don’t forget the meeting is the second
Tuesday not the first of November. Councilman Myers asked
do we want to do this? Councilman Noll said this closes the
holes we have with uncertified buildings, mainly applies
to commercial, but can apply to residential. A motion was made
by Councilman Noll to advertise the ordinance. The motion
was made by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman
Myers said so be it. The secretary said I’ll call Pete.
Knier Councilman Myers said that Ginny Knier request, do we want
Request to let her park over here at the parking lot? John said we had
something like this come up before and we said no. Mayor
Sanford said the exact same question came up, she called me
about two years ago if memory serves correct, the same group,
the same question, brought it to council and it was voted down.
If my memory serves me right, if we would let them, then we
would have to let them, let them, etc. Councilman Naylor
said if we had a snow event and Dana had to go in and out with
the truck you know depends. Mayor Sanford said she gave
New Business(cont.) Page 39
dates. The secretary said September through the 30th of November
on Thursdays from 6:30 to 8:30 and January to April on Thursdays
from 6:30 to 8:30. Most times its only five cars. Councilman Myers
said I don’t know if it would hurt, but. Mr. Shearer said she
talked to me the other day, she did say I guess she does have an
agreement with Mr. Shaffer down at the body shop to let some
people park there, she’s concerned about the women crossing
the word. Some had parked out here on the street, apparently,
someone parked in someone’s spot, it became a neighbor issue.
So I think that’s why it came back around. Mayor Sanford said
she is very nice lady. Councilman Noll said I don’t think I’d
have a problem with it but I put in the stipulation that if we have
any issues we revoke it. Councilman Naylor said if we do it,
if any one slips or breaks anything, we have liability. Councilman
Myers said we have that now as a borough. Mayor Sanford said
if anything happens. Perhaps get a liability waiver? Councilman
Allar said if we give them permission to come on. Mayor Sanford
said we posted the whole property no parking, we had problems with
the neighbor, and the neighbor over here in the alley and we
posted it over a year ago. Councilman Noll said they park at their
own risk. Councilman Allar said until something happens. Let
John be the one to make that decision. Mayor Sanford said I did
that once, I’m already. Councilman Myers said I don’t write them
a letter and say you can park here but, at your own risk, especially
during snow removal because. Mayor Sanford said during in climate
Weather you are not permitted. Councilman Myers said you have
to deal with in climate weather. Councilman Naylor said if we
experience any snow event, it will be disallowed. Mayor Sanford
said I would also ask for vehicle model and license numbers.
Councilman Myers said run it by Pete, have him pull a standard
from for a hold harmless agreement to sign. Councilman Noll made
a motion, for the hours that designated, have the model and license
numbers to be given to the Mayor to give to the police, that
they park at their own risk, not during in climate weather and
have them sign a hold harmless agreement that has been designated
by our solicitor, run it by Pete first. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Howett. All in favor.
LTAP Councilman Noll said for Dana, the twentieth up at York Township
Meeting there is a LTAP meeting. Councilman Myers asked what it was about?
Councilman Noll said I think they are doing the topic of Traffic
Studies. He may already have that, he may be okay.
New Business(cont.) Page 40
Utility Rates Councilman Noll said just something you need to be aware of,
the biggest increase once everything comes off of deregulation
is unmetered costs. Which means our street lights costs will
probably go up for budget purposes go up about 125%. The
secretary asked doesn’t deregulation start in January, 2010.
So we will need it for this budget. Mayor Sanford said
can we turn every other one off. Councilman Naylor said
they can turn the one off in front of my house. Councilman
Noll asked does the municipality request those? Councilman
Myers said we can, but we might have some neighbors
call in. Councilman Noll said I don’t know what we pay a
year. The secretary said I can get that. During LED’s at
the traffic lights have saved so much money. Councilman
Noll said they are saying meters in the home can go up
35 to 40%.
Payment of Bills
Councilman Myers said we have some additional bills:
York County Solid Waste:$799.68, Verizon:$74.64, Verizon:$35.71, the
following are C. S. Davidson Bills: $65.00, $202.02, $1884.85, $115.19,
$50. 46 and $7515.63. That would be additional bills to your already
$9502.97. A motion was made to pay the bills as listed by Councilman
Noll. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Myers said and Sandy told me to do this and I forgot,
this will be laying on the table, it’s the Yoe Ambulance Financial Statement.
If you want to look at it, they were audited. The secretary said the ambulance
club sent an email that the health insurance will be going up 90%next
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the meeting at
10:43PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Naylor. All in favor.