150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313 PG. 1
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on March 3, 2009
at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street, Yoe, PA 17313. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7:01PM with the Pledge
Council Members in Attendance:
Others in Attendance:
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
John Sanford, Mayor
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Jerry Pickle, Wildlife Enforcement Officer
Cindy Manns, Resident
Councilman Snyder asked if everyone had an opportunity to look over from the prior meeting, any additions or corrections? A motion was made by Councilman Allar to accept the meeting minutes of February 3, 2009. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said minutes approved.
Councilman Snyder said first we have on the agenda is Mr. Pickle. Mr. Pickle said
we’re back with a contract for this year. Nothing has changed. I’ll give it to you,
sign it if you will and send it to me. I only have one statement to make is that on
the upside upper stream side of the dam there is a hole right above the inlet. It
would really be great if you could get a few yards of 3A, ballast in there to cover
that. I know you have your priorities of getting your grants and so forth. Councilman
Snyder said we’re digging that thing out, we’re going to have a big hole. Councilman
Allar asked Jerry, this is at the inlet? Mr. Pickle said yes, its on the left side, if you’re
standing facing it, its on the right side on top looking down its on the left side. Mr.
Reichard said we were looking in on it on the right side, you’re saying standing on
Visitors(cont.) Page 2
the right side. Standing on the other side. Mr. Pickle said if you’re looking this
way its on the right side. Mr. Reichard said probably some ballast stone will
do it, R-4. Mr. Shearer said we were going to fill it in when we dredged. I’ll
buy stone. Mr. Reichard said it won’t need a whole lot, just enough to build it
up along that side. Heavier the better, 6inch, base quality. Councilman Snyder
said okay, based on his comments right there, and there’s no changes, Pete
he looked at his contract at prior time. Any comments? A motion to sign
the contract for Mr. Pickle’s services was made by Councilman Howett.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
Councilman Snyder asked if there were any other visitors that would like to be
Cindy Manns. Bruce had brought to my attention the resolution 2009-06 indicating
East High Street on the south side as snow emergency. And I came to talk to you all
about the possibility of removing signs. And the reason, is two fold, number one its
a dead end street. Number two we’re the only family that is really affected by a snow
emergency. And when that snow emergency comes into affect, we have no place to
park at all. The neighbors across the street from us, and George you can attest to this,
have multiple vehicles. Everyone of them have at least three. They take up the whole
side across the street from us. All the way up almost to the apartments. On our side,
is George and he has a driveway and then its our house, the apartments that are beyond
us have off street parking. So when, as I said, when it snows, we, the three cars that
we have, we have no place to put them, we end up parking them on our lawn or end
up parking them on the sidewalk. My request to have it removed, primarily though is,
it’s a hindrance to us, I don’t understand a snow emergency on a dead end street.
That was the question I had all along but I never brought it to council. That’s the
essence of it, just ask you to remove or if you all feel that it needs to hold. I would
just be curious as to what, the reason behind having it there is. Councilman Snyder
said first to bring the rest of council up to speed. For the resolution number, it was
brought to Dana’s attention that we have that area already posted for snow emergency
route. And it turns out, that approximately two years ago, I believe it was, a motion
was made to adopt those streets along with North Maple, eastside of North Maple. A
motion was made to adopt them as snow emergency routes, three years ago, four years
ago. I think was the time frame. Unfortunately it was not done in the form of the resolution, it was just done as a motion . The way our ordinance is set up, adopt the
streets by resolution. So to just sort of clean up our bookkeeping so to speak, is why
this resolution was drafted up just to go in sync with the motion we made four years
ago and the signs that we have posted. That’s where this came from. Now to address
her questions, Dana do you have any comments? Mr. Shearer said for that street, to
be right, you know, there are a lot more people that park on that side, all the cars on
both sides of the streets. They do a decent job to clean up around their vehicles. I wouldn’t see why we would really need it on that side. They don’t have it on this
Visitors(cont.) Page 3
side of, one of on either side of this side of High Street, west side of High. Councilman
Snyder asked was the reason, I mean we’re going back four years ago. Honestly I don’t remember the logic behind it. Maybe that’s why we picked that side because it only affected one or two people versus everybody. Mrs. Manns said to be honest with you, one of the things that was said to us as residents, was that it allowed Woody to do the plowing
up to the sidewalk. That was the reason that was given to us as to why it was posted as why the snow emergency was put up. He didn’t plow to the sidewalk, honestly he plowed
three feet away from the sidewalk most of the time. We still did snow removal even when we pulled our cars away from it. Councilman Snyder asked Mayor? Mayor Sanford said yes, I truthfully don’t remember High Street being named, I don’t know why it was named because that doesn’t make a lot of sense to do that. Mr. Shearer said it originally wasn’t named when you adopted the original ordinance. Mayor Sanford said I do remember Maple Street because of down here this driveway to the road, if you get a car on this side and a car on Garmin’s side that got tight. I do remember that. But I don’t remember incorporating High Street with Maple. Councilman Snyder said well we found it in the book. Dana brought this to my attention because he was trying to clean up his book and he said, hey we have signs out here, and signs up at High but I don’t have a resolution for it. We actually went back through the minutes and found where it was
passed. I mean it was brought up between Ronnie and Woody saying that this was needed. Mayor Sanford said what Mrs. Manns says is true, we adopted it so we could get the snow back to the sidewalk and there was some conflict between Woody, Ron and myself. He always felt bad putting the snow on the sidewalks. Sometimes he had to do that depending. We’ve done that a couple of times, only when it was deep. I really don’t see the purpose in it on High Street. Do you agree? That street is wide enough that we’ve not had any trouble with it. I say we because I’ve been in the truck with Dana. Mrs. Manns said with cars parked on both sides you still have room. Mr. Shearer said I agree.
Councilman Noll asked what is the snow emergency route defined as, do we have a description, definition of that? Mayor Sanford said if we would remove High Street, a question for Pete, could we do a new resolution just ignore enforcing it on that street?
Councilman Snyder said no, what we can do, is adopt this resolution and we just can just put North Maple Street on the east side, today and delete out High Street. Mayor Sanford said and we don’t have to re-advertise it? The secretary said its just a resolution. Councilman Snyder said I just did this by myself, we can still adopt it and just delete it,
with those changes. Solicitor Solymos said and ignore the other document. Councilman Snyder said ignore this one. Councilman Allar said you said its in the ordinance? Councilman Snyder said its in the minutes, that we passed a motion. Mayor Sanford said that is just my opinion, I can’t seeing it being productive. Councilman Noll said I was asking for the true definition of it, that is why I was asking if you had it. Mr. Shearer said I’d have to look that up, I don’t recall. Councilman Snyder said it was only put on there, because Woody wanted it at the time. I mean, if the people doing the snow removal now, don’t really want it. Mayor Sanford said its not going to help us in any matter, I can’t see the full benefit. Councilman Snyder said okay. We have your comments. We were going to bring this up under Solicitor’s report. When we do, we will modify it accordingly. Mrs. Manns said thank you. I appreciate it.
Visitors(cont.) Page 4
Councilman Snyder said no other visitors here? We’ll get right into Solicitor’s Report.
Resolution Solicitor Solymos said while its fresh in our minds, let’s handle that
2009-06 resolution. Councilman Snyder said okay, any further discussion then.
Well heard the story of why we have this resolution, for the snow
emergency route thanks to Dana. But I guess with the following discussion
then to remove A, on the East High Street on the south side, moving B up
to now being A. Which is still adopting North Maple Street on the east
side. With that revision do we now resolve 2009-06 and then of course
have Dana remove the inappropriately marked signs on E. High Street.
A motion was made by Councilman Noll to resolve resolution 2009-06.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor: Councilman
Howett, Councilman Snyder. Abstain: Councilman Manns. Councilman
Snyder said so be it resolved. Councilman Snyder said I’ll take that home and get a new copy made up and then get it back to you then, Sandy.
Councilman Snyder said we had a new resolution last month in which
Fees we adopted the new fees for the park. It was brought to our attention
at after the fact that we needed to change the agreement that Gayle sends
Park to the people. When I met with Pete on the other issues that I was meeting
with him on this month, we had come up with some verbage changes to
that one section concerning groups and rentals and reimbursement of
fees. I think it was section 13. So we’ll need a motion to adopt a new
contract for the park rental agreement. A motion was made by Councilman
Howett made a motion to adopt the new park rental contract agreement.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion granted.
Proposed Solicitor Solymos said I did a proposed ordinance for you folks with
Ordinance regard to the repeal of the per capita and the employment tax. And we
can get that ready to be advertised for adoption at the next regular
meeting if there are no questions or comments with regards to that.
Its short and sweet. Councilman Snyder said just take that, look over
it. If there is any questions or concerns, otherwise we’ll have, we’ll
go ahead and make the motion to have Pete advertise that. And this
is just the language, if there is any changes in the language anyone
has just get back to me and I can forward them to Pete. A motion was
made by Councilman Noll to have Pete advertise the ordinance for
adoption at next month’s meeting. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion
carried, so you can go ahead and advertise that one.
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 5
Knox Solicitor Solymos said Barry had asked that borough council consider
Box adopting a lock box ordinance with regard to commercial buildings and
Proposed certain types of multi family uses for fire emergencies and so forth. Barry
Ordinance was going to get me that information, I hadn’t receive it so I called Barry
this afternoon, not knowing that he was in Florida. He did reference me
to the York Township ordinance I pulled that off their website this
afternoon. If you want to use that one, if its satisfactory I’ll get a rough
draft to borough council. I’ll send it to Sandy to circulate. We could
advertise that for the next meeting along with the other one. Councilman
Snyder said I would assume that the fire department, you can probably
update us, I’m sure the fire department helped with the language and
helped approve York Township. So if we go with York Township’s
language, I’m thinking we should be safe. Solicitor Solymos said I’ve
got that here, if you authorize me to prep it and send it to you for your
review. We can advertise that for the next regular meeting. Councilman
Noll said does that township ordinance reference where that knox box
has to be picked up, we might have to change that to the fire department,
do they have the borough office listed? That would be the only comment
I would make on it, they’re the ones that really should administer. Do
they have any specifications listed? Mayor Sanford said the township
also orders the boxes so they have control of them. So if you have a
business and wanted to get a box, you have to go to the fire department
to get the application. Solicitor Solymos said why don’t I do this, this
is York Township? Mayor Sanford said they return it with the money.
Solicitor Solymos said why don’t I draft something for you so you can
take a look at it and see. We’re going to have to draft something. Mayor
Sanford said as part of that, I came in late last month, tail end of the
meeting, probably after Pete was gone. I would like to see the borough
consider adopting an ordinance to impose penalties for false alarms,
whether it would be fire alarms/automatic alarms, burglar alarms.
Councilman Snyder asked wasn’t that part of that ordinance, I mean
we hadn’t seen the ordinance yet. Solicitor Solymos said that’s a
separate type of ordinance. Councilman Snyder asked so its not part
of this one? Councilman Noll said this is for a knox box it would require
you put your key in, from County control. I think that is separate.
Councilman Snyder said I thought that was alarm, I thought that was
with a key in there. Councilman Noll said that can be alarm, its up
to the landlord’s discretion, its recommended. In most places not
required. Councilman Snyder said now, if we, the only question that
I had on that, I totally forgot that Barry was going to be down in
Florida, if we supply this box. Mayor Sanford said we don’t supply it,
they pay for it, we just order it through the municipality usually so that
they have control of it. Councilman Noll said usually what happens is
they go to the borough office or fire department more likely than not
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 6
the fire department, it’s a three page form that lists all the different
varieties, surface mounted, flush mounted, its little brown boxes. In
that it tells you the specification and its signed off by an official,
usually the fire chief because when ordering, you fill out the information
and send it in. They mail the box back to you, then they install it. Then
they have to come out with their key. That’s why its has to be done
by municipality, there’s all sort of codes on it. So that key works that’s
carried on the fire truck. I think they are trying to get all the municipalities
that are served by Yoe basically on the same key. So there’s one key for
all those municipalities that are directly served by the fire department.
Councilman Snyder said my only question, its more of a legal thing. If
the borough is sanctioning say this type of box. This is the type that we
want you to put on. And if I’m putting the key to my business on the
outside of the building to make it easily accessible for someone to come
with a sledge hammer to come and knock it off. Now they have a key
to get or break in, can they come back to the municipality? Solicitor
Solymos said you can have a liability claim then. Mayor Sanford said
that is why I strongly suggest that the alarm box. Councilman Snyder said
I just want to make sure that if we’re telling everybody you put a key to
your building on the outside of building and someone happens to use that
to be able to break in. Solicitor Solymos asked Sandy can you get
something for me, York Township’s ordinance says that the nature of
all rigmarole of installing it is done by resolution. Would you get their
resolution, I have the ordinance but the ordinance just authorizes setting
up. The secretary said I can call them and have them send it to you.
Solicitor Solymos said the resolution regarding the knox box, let me
give you the wording that they have in their ordinance. The municipality
adopts rules and regs concerning the knox system, designate the type
of system to be implemented within the township. They must have done
that by separate resolution. The secretary said do they have it or the fire
company. Mayor Sanford said Tom Landis will have that information at
741-3861, extension 118. He is fire marshal for the township. If you have
a problem I’ll call him. Councilman Snyder said the other question I have
was, I didn’t know if the municipality had to worry about this more than
the fire department is the liability associated with unauthorized use if
someone, say if a junior firemen down there were to. Councilman Noll
said you can’t get, county control would carry a box on the fire truck,
and county control, they have to call in to ask for access to it, county
control radios back and basically opens the box up on the truck.
Councilman Snyder said if that box is opened up without that control,
an alarm goes off and they know someone is tampering. Mr. Shearer
said you can’t get it out. Mayor Sanford said everything is done on the
air, every conversation is recorded so there’s documentation on who
opens it and when. Councilman Noll said they have to call in and
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 7
request and then they send the signal. Councilman Snyder said I just
wanted to make sure there wasn’t some extra insurance that we had
to have. Councilman Noll said they are a very smart thing, about
$400.00 a box to the contractor, they are a little vault. Mr. Shearer
said another to remember that most people that have these alarm
systems, also have burglar alarms, once the fire department gets
the key in the door to get in the building, they can’t silence the
alarm. So the cops are getting called. So if we are going there for
an automatic alarm, the cops are already called. Councilman Snyder
said I just don’t know in our town, the few businesses that we have,
I don’t know how many even have a burglar alarm. I mean like,
if you get a little shop down here or even Strobeck’s, I don’t know
if they have an alarm. Mayor Sanford said how small are you going
to go on this, is home occupancy considered a business for that.
A home business? Solicitor Solymos said I can tell you what York
Township has, commercial industrial structures, government
structures and nursing care facilities, multi family residential
structures that have restricted access thru locked doors and have
a common corridor, all newly constructed structures. All structures
have in the municipality from the effective date have one year to
get this in place. It doesn’t reference home occupation. The secretary
said that means our building would need one. Solicitor Solymos said
yes. Councilman Allar said my concern is the cost to the businesses.
You pointed out the cost of the box and you will need a couple hundred
to install it. You’re putting a significant amount of money in. Councilman
Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, I don’t know how, like a Strobeck’s.
Councilman Noll said normally its retroactive again and this will be
triggered by this other ordinance, when the occupancy changes, or when
you do. Normally a lot of municipalities have been going back enforcing
businesses retroactive some home but you don’t have to do that. Mayor
Sanford said if you need to gain access one way that’s probably where
you going to take out a whole width of glass at Yoe Auto Parts. That’s
four or five hundred there too. Either let me in with an ax or let me
in with a key. But I need to get in. We don’t make forcible unless we
have a cause, if the building is full of smoke and your responder is a
half a mile out. Yeah we need to make access. Councilman Allar said
you probably let them in anyway? Mayor Sanford said not before
if there’s a knox box there or not before we take it. If there is a knox
box there we use the knox box first and save the damage. That was
the justification that has been used, correct. Mr. Shearer said there
might be smoke inside the building and not been detected outside
the building. You don’t smell it. Thermal images don’t go through
walls, you have to be inside the room. So, if you are standing there,
the alarm is going off, you don’t know. Mayor Sanford said and the
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 8
ordinance is a year from date of enactment so that is a little over
a dollar a day. Councilman Noll said you can make a decision
to offer it as an option to existing businesses or to new. Councilman
Snyder said I just, the more that I was thinking about it over the
last month, I wasn’t quite sure of the logic behind it as far if you have
a fire in structure I don’t think a broken door or window is your
biggest concern and again I wasn’t thinking about, started to think
about some of these smaller businesses that we have,like down here
at Shaffer’s that does some auto body and stuff. I can’t see him wanting
to put $400.00 out when he says, if I have fire I’m going to lose more
than that. I just didn’t know how that would go over. Councilman Allar
said I think there are going to be some people coming in here. They
are going to say the costs, I have an alarm why are you making me do
this. Councilman Snyder said I wouldn’t even think cause we were talking
about automatic alarms. I totally honest I haven’t heard of any businesses
that have an alarm in town. I haven’t heard an alarm go off. Mayor
Sanford said a lot of them don’t have external signaling devices.
Councilman Snyder said lets face it, someone breaks into Yoe Auto
Parts, say they have an alarm system. Mayor Sanford said they do.
Councilman Snyder said you have twelve cop cars down there for a break
in, that news makes it around town. I really haven’t heard. I’m just looking
at the types of businesses we have here in town. I’m thinking we have the
fire department and the ambulance club which is a business if you want
to say that, you’ve got couple of these auto shops, you’ve got Strobecks,
you’ve got Strobeck’s on the other side, Yoe Auto Parts and we are
pushing it at that point. You know what I mean. I’m sure they are probably
more, but when you start to get down to like yours. I know we had
Morton’s with Motorola stuff like that. Really when you are talking Bob
Morton, I don’t know if he still doing it. Is he? If you get someone
like that. That’ not a commercial structure. Solicitor Solymos said it
sounds like you are going to have to give me more information before
spending the money to make this up. It sounds like the township has
far more complexed type of industry and commercial activity than Yoe
Borough. You may check with Barry again. Mayor Sanford asked how can
you advertise it for public comment? How is that done? Solicitor Solymos
said I don’t understand, I’d have to prepare an ordinance. Mayor Sanford
said so you can’t have public comment prior to it, it has to be done.
Solicitor Solymos said you can have a work session and invite the public
come together to discuss the possible adoption of the ordinance.
Councilman Snyder said I can try to get it in the newspaper and say we’ll
discussing again a further enactment of this type of ordinance. Business
owners are encourage to attend the council meeting. Mayor Sanford said
with the half of a dozen or eight business within the borough you could
do a mailing on it. Or hand deliver. Councilman Allar said I’d say you’d
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 9
hand deliver, I have the feeling. Mayor Sanford said that, that would.
Councilman Snyder said that’s where you were saying, where are
we going to stop with this ordinance. Its just going to be. Mayor
Sanford said commercial/industrial structures. Solicitor Solymos
said why don’t we advertise so that people can come in and say
that we’re considering, authorizing adoption of such an ordinance,
and invite people to come in next month. You know, any of the
business owners, if they don’t show up, it would show you what
type of interest you have and then I’d go however you’d like to go.
Councilman Snyder said cause now when you’re talking commercial
businesses for commercial buildings. Mayor Sanford said Jay Myers
of Yoe Service, the fire company, the church, Bob, the auto shop.
Strobeck’s at the bottom of the hill isn’t in the borough is it? Councilman
Manns said Bug World. Councilman Allar said even with your
example I know what they’re going to say, they’re going to say, break
the door down, and break the glass. At least I can claim that on my
insurance. $600.00, I’m out $600.00. Mr. Shearer said you’re missing
the point. Councilman Allar said I understand the point, if I were you
I would say the same thing. Mr. Shearer said take Yoe Auto Parts that
building. This scenario, tomorrow, they go out of business, they sell
that structure. Someone comes in there and renovates it for a commercial
structure. They are going to have to update that building to UCC. UCC
is going to require them to put in fire protection system. Correct?
They may not have one now. So that building is going to have a fire
protection system. We get an automatic alarm, into that building, its on
second floor and we can’t see nothing from the street. They’re responder
is thirty minutes out. We stand there in the middle of the street dumping
thousand of gallons of water on it, when we could be inside fighting the
fire. Councilman Allar said that’s what I’m saying, when it gets renovated
then you do it. I’m just trying to anticipate the heat you’re going to get
from some of these, that’s all. Mayor Sanford said advertise it, do a work
shop and we can draft a letter, hand deliver it. Councilman Allar said I like
the idea but its going anger some of the people. Mr. Shearer said what
Barry’s point is, from my understanding is correct, make it uniform so that
it covers all commercial and industrial sights. Councilman Noll said I
don’t know of any other municipality around that does it. Councilman
Allar said I think the only thing to do is to get it out. Mayor Sanford said
Dallastown is working on it now. Councilman Allar said and they say hey,
it’s a great idea at least we’re breaking the ice on it. We’re not going to
surprise them and say hey you need to buy one. Councilman Noll said
where they work out well, is a strip mall like tenants, you’re looking at
instead of getting into one building you’re looking at getting at eight
or ten. Councilman Allar asked what about the apartment buildings?
Councilman Snyder said that’s what, I think Pete is getting at, or what
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 10
John’s getting at, where are we saying this is the cut off for commercial.
Because we already have determined that we’re inspecting the rental
properties. Councilman Noll said the UCC does, when you get over,
I believe it is when you get over 4 or 6 units in a row, one owner,
that is when you would need to use it. Mayor Sanford said using
Orchard Glen for an example, you could use one box for that entire
complex, that would be located at a centrally located spot. And if they
have a master key to the building, separately, you could put six keys
in the box for six buildings. Councilman Allar said I think its more
of a communication issue, I think get everyone together, explain what’s
going on. Mayor Sanford said I’m sure, and I’ll use Jim Dennison as
an example, he would I’m sure support this, he has this in other location
where he has. You go to the knox box, you get it open, you get the master
key you go into apartment B, where you have a smoke detector sounding
and find that it is a dead battery. Now he doesn’t have to replace that
door. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying I think we have to
have specially for Pete to sit here and draft the thing. We need to know
what our intent is. I mean like you were mentioning, in home occupation.
Now I’m starting to hear rental properties that have over a certain amount
of units. Councilman Manns said you have than housing authority
building. Councilman Snyder said yeah you have how many units?
Like you said we want to make this uniform, where is the cut off going
to be? Before he actually drafts something, he needs to know. Mayor
Sanford said I’m using that as an example, they aren’t concerned with
us having a key? So, one in a knox box would be better. Councilman
Noll said is this something that we want Barry to come back with some
recommendations on? Councilman Snyder said no, I think we need to
get a copy of this ordinance. Again I can put this in the paper that
we’re discussing having this done. Solicitor Solymos said I can draft
a rough draft of the ordinance, not for advertising and have it here
at the next regular meeting. And then. Councilman Snyder said and still
we’ll be two months out and we can get as we’re talking to people, say
hey what do you think about this, what do you think and get some feed
back. Councilman Allar said don’t expect anyone who sees it, to like
it. Councilman Snyder said and if that’s the case fine and they can come
here and complain to us once its been passed or adopted. I just know that
we need to know what we need to do in town so he brought up a good
point what do you want to do with in home occupation. To be totally
honest I haven’t thought about it. Mayor Sanford said define if you
use commercial or industrial. Councilman Snyder said well then like
you brought up, then that’s going to include the rental properties because
that’s a commercial business. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll do a draft
and get it to you before the next meeting. Mayor Sanford said I’ll also
forward you a copy of York Township’s alarm ordinance. Solicitor
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11
Solymos said that would be good.
Chronister Solicitor Solymos said after our last meeting. I’ll bring you up to date,
the last thing I was doing, for you as a result of our lasting discussion.
Was to press the Chronister case for arbitration. I’ve done that, it
was listed to the court, it was done last week. And now what will
happen next, is that court administrator will appoint a panel of three
lawyers to sit to hear. We can’t go to a jury trail until we exercise
the arbitration process because the sum is less than $40,000.00 involved.
So we’ll have to go through the arbitration process once their arbitrators
are appointed they will get in touch with counsel. And between counsel
and the arbitrators schedule a hearing date. Once I get the date I’m going
to need to meet with the players here to go over your testimony. That’s where we stand in that one.
Code Solicitor Solymos said I met with Sam this month in regards to the code
of of ordinances. To go over some questions that he had,and we’ve gone
Ordinances over that. Sam can touch base with you on what we covered there.
Citizen Solicitor Solymos said Sam brought to my attention, one of your
Filing citizens hired a lawyer to file an act of quiet title against a municipal
Quiet road. He can’t do that. You can’t take land from the crown so to
Title speak. Where there that land was duly adopted, this was a road that
was duly adopted back in the early 1900’s I believe. It is a municipal
property and so I understand in talking to Sam today, apparently
this young gentleman had talked to other lawyers, other than the one
that filed the quiet title and has gotten some advice closer to what
I have told you folks. He is approaching this lawyer and asking him
to withdraw the act of quiet title. Where he is going with it now I don’t
know. Apparently threats were to sue the municipality, where there
are dire consequences. I don’t know, I’ll wait to see it, I don’t think
there is any litigation that can bring appropriately to the municipality.
Councilman Snyder asked is there anything that we need to do since
he take this by title? Solicitor Solymos said I am not authority, but what
I’d like to do is. Councilman Snyder said send him a letter that says
you need to do this. Solicitor Solymos said I’d like to send his lawyer
a letter showing him that this land adopted by the municipality. Obviously,
when you file an action of quiet title, every landowner or suspected
landowner over the years, is to be put on notice. This municipality
was never put on notice. Which it should have been. I’d like authority to
intervene on that area and to put the court on notice that this is municipal
property. Quiet title action will not lie. Councilman Snyder said I gave
everybody an update either via email or the ones that didn’t have email,
I put a little note in your mail boxes. The lastest as of today, he called and
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
said he was going to go back to his attorney and try to undo what he
did because he feels, while he still feels he has an action against the
municipality, he feels he is going to lose in the end. So, that’s why
I was asking Pete, we need at this point that he follows through
with that and actually reverses what he did. A motion was made
by Councilman Manns to have Pete notify that attorney with
what he feels what the best response is, to take the appropriate
response. To notify the attorney and request that he withdraw.
Then we’ll have to file something with the court. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Allar. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried.
ROW Solicitor Solymos said Sam brought up something interesting to
Riedel me that is an ongoing then I’ll sedge way into the Engineer’s Report.
Property That’s the easement for the Riedel family, low and behold prior
Easement to when I was the solicitor here, apparently somebody through
Rettew drew up an agreement and there is easement that Mr.
Riedel, the company signed and the borough signed. That easement,
and I have copies for you all, and you can review it. My opinion
is that is a setback there is an option agreement that Riedel’s
gave this municipality authorizing the use of their land for
a dollar as an easement setting forth where the easement is
located. Which will I think probably satisfy the easement for
the municipality to gain access to the detention area. That easement
that option was granted in 1996. It was irrevocable, and after
30 days it could be revoked but it was never revoked by my
understanding by the records of this municipality. So its an
option that there is. My recommendation is that borough council
accept the option and pay $1.00 to the Riedels for the use of
that easement. And then recording it. Councilman Snyder said
Res.2009-07 so this would actually be resolution 2009-07. Solicitor Solymos
said I think Jason, you are aware of this resolution. I think
Sam brought you up to date. Councilman Allar said you are saying
that if we avail ourselves of this, they do not have rights. Solicitor
Solymos said the way I read it they could have withdrawn their
approval of the option withdrawn the grant of the option, that has
never been done. Its there, its good. Then what is the option? You
have never rejected it, the recommendation is that you accept their
kind of offer of an option and authorize the expenditure of $1.00
of municipal funds for the option. Now are they going to fight over
it, probably. Its there in paper. Councilman Snyder said that actually,
we had a motion for Pete to start working on with Tom and with
Seth in getting negotiations with the Riedels for an easement. At
the same point we were discussing about the wetland easement
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
that were never done that we found out that was part of our permit
from the Army Corps. And I thought I wanted to make sure for
Jason’s meeting on the twentieth, I wanted to know what, I wanted
to know why it wasn’t done, do we have a copy of it. I started to
go through our infamous box back there to see if I could locate
a wetland easement. And low and behold I came across this. And
thought that covered that. It was a buck it was done at the same when
we were in the negotiations of purchasing the land. Evidently, we
didn’t remember it. The secretary said I thought there was some
kind of easement. I thought there was something but didn’t know
where it was. Councilman Allar said I was discussing it with Seth,
that we should discuss with them first before we go ahead. Solicitor
Solymos said well if you discuss it with them first and we don’t
adopt it, they’re going to send you a letter that says the offer is
withdrawn. That I’m going to tell you. Councilman Allar said I’m
wondering if they can’t do it after we adopt it. I know we can adopt
it. Councilman Manns said they had the option to back out, back then.
Councilman Snyder said and they didn’t back out. And that’s the thing
basically we have to, at this point they would have show us that they
exercised their options to revoke it, how many years back, or whenever.
Its basically first come first serve, they didn’t revoke so we’re taking
an official action to exercise our option to purchase the easement. If
we do that first then they can’t back out of it because that’s even written
in the agreement that they can not withhold the easement. Now I know
Jason, when I talked to Jason about this, it was ironic its almost identical
to the quarter acre that he had identified a year ago but he did say, he did
wish it had a little bit more land on the other side of the bridge. But I told
him, I said if this is what we get for a buck and we can live with it. He
does think that I’m sure he’ll have more updates under engineer. But he
does think we can utilize this and access, it may even behoove us better
for the maintenance. Solicitor Solymos said you may want to discuss
that, you don’t have pass that resolution right now, you may want to
until Jason goes over the engineering aspect of it. I drawn it up if you
want to. Its pretty clear what it was, someone went through some
trouble to draw that. Mr. Reichard said my only concern was the
definition of flooding, I brought that up years ago also, what does that
mean exactly for us. Is that more impoundment of flood waters or
is that for access and maintenance of our structure? And that was
presented three years ago. Solicitor Solymos said the way it reads I think
it gives us that right. Mr. Reichard said okay,and in this you can see where
the flooding line comes into the box culvert, ideally we have a twenty foot
swat, coming inside of that inside when it comes down to it, we use the
land as necessary at the site. Councilman Noll asked what exposure do we
have as far as cost that affects the dollar and the cost of the engineer to go
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 14
out and inspect the land. Councilman Snyder said and for Pete to actually
file the easement. Councilman Noll said we’re probably looking at
$1000.00 on the outside to do everything. Solicitor Solymos said its up
the engineer of what costs may be there, my cost is limited. Mr. Reichard
said we can request to set the corners. Solicitor Solymos said I think you
can do that and in the letter just say to them, say borough council has
adopted a resolution accepting. Send them a copy of the letter and the
resolution with the buck. In the cover letter tell them our engineer will
work with in accordance with the easement. Saying our engineer is willing
to place pins in the appropriate form. Is that what you want to do? Sandy
if you got that, I’ll forget. That’s the way you handle it. The secretary said
that will be on here. Solicitor Solymos said send it out on municipal
letterhead. Mayor Sanford asked do we offer an explanation on why
this has been brought to the table now? That it was just. Solicitor Solymos
said I think that would open up a pandora’s box. Councilman Snyder said
we’re just exercising our options. Solicitor Solymos said that’s a good
move. Jason said don’t mention the property corners. The secretary said
I’ll have Sam help me make the letter up. I’ll have him read it before it
goes. Solicitor Solymos said I suspect, you’re putting the ball in their
court, whether they want money to come up with a letter saying that
they revoke this, what have you. I think what we had said to them, in
our discussion was always more than what they have. Councilman Manns
said we executed a prior offer agreed to, they had a period of 45 to 30
days to revoke it, so its our course to execute that agreement. Solicitor
Solymos said there was a thirty day period where it could not be
revoked period, after that it could have been revoked at any time but
it wasn’t revoked. So I’m saying its an option, its open, valid. I am
aware of nothing that says with an option that this, that there is a statute
of limitations, how long an option is open. Councilman Snyder said
it actually says they are binding on errors and assigns. So its.
The fact that it says its binding on errors and assigns, tells me that its.
Councilman Noll said once this goes out just so we do this the right
way. They get the letter, is that letter going to direct them to correspond
to only one person. My theory being, when you get a lot of people
involved a lot more message are going out. If they want to fight it in
court I don’t it all caught up in, they said this, they said that. You know
what I mean. Solicitor Solymos said I think the letter should be signed
by Tom, acknowledging Tom or yourself. If you have any comments or
questions to that, I can do it in his defense. Councilman Allar said I think
it should be signed by Pete. Councilman Noll said, Tom, I’m saying we
may want to step out of it, cause if they have questions regarding, in my
mind they are building a case. I just want a single point of contact. To
get answers. Councilman Snyder said how bout if the letter comes from
Pete because his office needs to draft the easement anyways and then
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 15
he can say I’ll be in touch with you when the documents. Do they
have to sign anything else or just go and file? Solicitor Solymos
said I think you can just go and file the easement. Councilman
Snyder said and that way if they have any questions. Solicitor
Solymos said when we grant the easement, they are going to
have to sign it, that could be a problem. And I’m not saying
there won’t be litigation, I’m not saying that they come back,
one of the places they’re going to be, well if we hadn’t withdrawn
it why were you guys negotiating with us, asking us to give it
to you. I know that’s going to come. Councilman Noll said right.
Solicitor Solymos said frankly I don’t think because a municipality
elected officials are unaware of a legal document that, that fact
can invalidate a valid contract that was done on behalf of the
municipality and its citizens. Councilman Allar said but the
answer is we were negotiating something else. Solicitor Solymos
said and you were going in a different direction. Councilman
Allar said it says here in paragraph five, not be responsible,
no known new structures past the stream and so forth. We would
be putting in structures, we would putting it down into the basin
for maintenance. Mr. Reichard said that’s the seller. Councilman
Snyder said that’s the seller can’t do that. Councilman Allar said
okay. Still negotiating something different. Solicitor Solymos
said different that what you guys had thought, we want something
bigger than this, but we can live with this and then if we go to
that, then if you need more. Then maybe reasonable negotiations
can be had with in regard to the more. Councilman Noll said I just
think it should be for two reasons; one, to be fair to them so that
they’re not getting three different answers from three different
people, just one person to contact and also if it does go into some
type of litigation against one messenger, it does get valuated.
Councilman Snyder said the one thing that I told. Solicitor Solymos
said I’ll get the letter out, I want to make sure that it is the letter that
everyone wants out, I will sign on behalf of borough council, this
is advise. Councilman Allar said and also Pete, most of the discussion
was to purchase the land not an easement. Solicitor Solymos said yes
I think it’s a difference, I think its good the only question is it a big
enough easement. Councilman Snyder said well the worse that happens
is this can’t repute so we can at least work with this. Solicitor Solymos
work within the framework of this. And tweak it if we need too. I mean
their biggest concern was day one, was that they didn’t want to sell.
They did not want to sell. And that’s why we thought eminent domain,
so we inquired. Councilman Snyder said for the dollar can Sandy just
send that to you to send along with the letter. A motion was made by
Councilman Noll to resolve 2009-07 to exercise the borough’s option
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 16
to purchase the easement for one dollar. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be
it resolved. Solicitor Solymos said that’s all I had unless you had
something for me. The secretary asked if I should send you a fax
of this signed copy then? Solicitor Solymos said of the resolution.
Councilman Snyder said I don’t think you have send that when
you send the letter. The resolution, of course a copy of the.
Solicitor Solymos said you’re right, send me a copy. Councilman
Snyder said you might as well send a copy of that along with all
Dam Councilman Snyder said moving along to engineer’s report. I guess
while the discussing, we’ll just finish up that topic at least on my
end. When I was going through that box, I did find, I could not find
Wetland any wetland easement. They were not done. What I did find is the
Easement contract that we had with Rettew that they were suppose to do it,
Not Done and they actually got paid to do it. I was in contact with Rettew and
said was I missing something can you provide me with a copy of
what you did. And they of course, after two weeks admitted that
it was not done and they are willing to do these easements and prepare
all the documentation as such that is necessary on these. Now we know
because of this proposed change in our dams, I’m not sure how that
affects, if we’re going to be mitigating them somewhere else how that
affects it. We at least have them on the hook that they said yep, we
failed to do it, they took responsibility for it and are willing to work
with the borough pro bono, in seeing that we get wetland easements.
Now, I’ll turn it over to Jason. Mr. Reichard said I’ll continue with
that, unfortunately we’re not going to need necessarily an easement
toward the upper dam because the Army Corps of Engineers saying
they don’t want the wetlands in there. So, we need to basically find
a new mitigation area. Last result, the last effort will be to actually
pay a fee in lieu of mitigated wetlands, which will bring a reality to us.
They basically open up the entire water shed as a boundary. We’re
exploring a couple options with that right now, there isn’t anything real
secure at this point. I’ll continue to work on that, and get some detailed
information and appraise the borough on it. I still feel the responsibility
with Rettew, because we’re technically in violation of our original
permit by not having secured those easements. We’re also in violation
because the borough has not maintained the wetlands. I can’t remember
the exact language that Mike Danko used but there is a process, a
compliance process that we have to go through with the Army Corps in
order to restore the wetlands. So fortunately he was going to treat that
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 17
as a side not for the overall project and the permitting of the Army Corps
and DEP. Councilman Allar asked we do have actual wetlands there?
Mr. Reichard said what is on, back to the original site, and the original
plan for mitigation. A ½ acre about, below a ¼ acre up in the upper dam.
We use those numbers in the long term. Councilman Allar said before
the dam? Mr. Reichard said yeah. Councilman Allar said well, as I told
you out there, I did talk to the township engineer. His suggestion was
to go to DEP to make sure its in that place. And then talk to Keystone
Custom Homes about building. The township is basically saying, we’re
out of the review process vice vie the wetlands. Whatever DEP approves
then that’s that we’ll go with. If the developer in fact has extra wetland,
he is willing allocate to us, that’s fine, there’s no objection there. If
the developer has the wetland, unless we can determine that extra
wetland. Mr. Reichard said there is a potential project right down here
at Springwood and Camp Betty Washington, realignment and there is
going to impact on the wetlands. Also Mill Creek Reserve, where they’re
doing a project to create wetlands. So there is potential that something
be worked out to. Councilman Allar said the project that is on the drawing
board now, in the process of being approved, this again, if we contact
them with a $1000.00 to $2000.00 something like that, they may be able
add to wetlands to that project. Obviously its a lot cheaper to do it when
its in development. Then the question is, is Danko willing to accept future
projects from what we’re doing now. If he accepts something that will
come on line years and years from now. Mr. Reichard said the only
condition with that, is this future project they’re going to make us post
a letter of credit to guarantee that those improvements are made several
years later. That’s an expense to the borough obviously. There’s a
financial guarantee. Councilman Snyder asked can we if you’re still
planning on doing everything inside the dam, and you’re making this
fore bay acceptable from Springwood, we just gained 1/3 of an acre,
here with our easement with Riedel, could we not move the wetlands
up there. Mr. Reichard said I don’t think so, he basically wants them out
of that whole area. Its high energy condition, either intense flood waters
would come down through that creek, come through the dam. Its obvious.
The lower basin is an issue because none of the plant species that were
originally planted there, are still there. Even wiped out, with a wetland,
a true quality wetland plants, now its run of the mill of cattails, prairie
grasses, and open water. Councilman Allar said he’ll probably want us
to address that in the lower basin. Mr. Reichard said we’ll see because
technically we’re not in compliance with the wetland in that area.
There’s signs of sediment deposition in that structure, at the point
where the channel has been relocated, and there is a build up. And
at some point they may check off the wetlands all together. Its non-
existent. Probably the biggest thing is his initial indication was that,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
he was going to require a joint permit to do the work. Which
is expensive, it’s a problem. Councilman Allar said that’s one
of the reasons that Jason did the calculations for cost, outside
versus inside. And inside we did not a joint permit, and now
we found out we are. Mr. Reichard said he’s claiming that
because we’re moving material period, not just excavating out,
we’re touching it, is what it comes down to. He’s classifying
that as deposition of fill material and water common. That
automatically drops us into a category 3, PASBGE 3, which
is a joint permit. That will cost around $4000.00 to $5000.00
easily. Its a lot of work. More than that constitutes a hydrology
study, storm water calculations through the structure. Which
I wasn’t ready for, I didn’t think he was going to go that route.
DEP signing off without permits and approval because of the
water common. That’s not official, March 11, there is meeting
with Mike Danko and his supervisor to discuss the options and
write a letter to us on doing exactly what we need to do. So.
We’ll see. I did talk to him hear last week, to try to get an update
to our maintenance permit on Section 105 of DEP allows us
to maintain the structures, there is waiver of permits. He was
actually unfamiliar with that, said he was going to contact Jack
Hill at the Division of Dam Safety. He contacted Jack, suppose
to have contacted Jack Hill to discuss this option. Hopefully we
can find some way around this whole process. Worse case
scenario, we’re going to operate under that section and dredge
that thing out and move on because we don’t have the money
to spend on this project any longer its in violation, deal with
the situation down the road, if that’s what we choose to do.
Councilman Allar said up to a point, be willing to cut us some
slack, they approve this, he was not part of that process, it was
his predecessor. They are trying to make this some how work so
that’s to our advantage. Some of these some of things that we
would have to do now, he is willing to put out. We still have
a plan. Mr. Reichard said the good thing is, he likes the system
that we have designed for the fore bay system and rock arrangement,
he likes that, he likes the concept. That’s a good thing. The question
is how much do we deviate from the original plan. My point was
the original plan still has a swale going through, the original plan
still had that swale elevated there was burm in the middle of basin.
The size the basin stayed the same, the depth overall stayed the
same. It’s a matter of how we’re letting the water through basin,
it’s the only thing that’s changing. And its not changing that
significantly. We’re talking maybe a foot to two feet in some
section for feet work. There basically under water. Councilman
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
Allar said there in the original plans. Mr. Reichard said oh yeah.
At this point we’re going to wait and see what happens after
March 11. We’ll have official direction. Tom and I requested it
in writing so we can have the application plan. Councilman
Noll said my concern still will be, there is going to be an
additional 6 to 8 grand, are we going to dredge this? Its not
that big. Councilman Allar said you had money in there for
permits. Mr. Reichard said I had something in there. Councilman
Allar said you had $5000.00. Mr. Reichard said I only had it
for going off the site which being off site. Councilman Allar said
the numbers you put together in December you have. Mr. Reichard
said I said $7500.00 for a permit for budgeting. Councilman Allar
said you had Army Corps of Engineer’s permit at $3000.00.
Councilman Noll said not to belabor the whole point, but I guess,
we need to get the letter back to find out what they’re going to
make us do. But as far as municipality, to spend a lot of money
on engineering dollars for something that we can’t do, at some
point we have to arrive at that. Mr. Reichard said what I’ll do,
we have a plan that is good enough to give to someone to get
an estimate. They come back, either way, we can send that
to a couple of people and say have one of your estimators come
down and take a look at this, ball park figure nothing binding.
To see where we are at with this thing, maybe we’ll be surprised.
Councilman Noll said I’d like to do that sooner than less. Mr.
Reichard said I didn’t want to go, I don’t want to spend anymore
time on this than I have to so. Councilman Noll said eventually
we’re going to have get estimates anyways and it would be better
to know now that its going to cost too much money, we do, maybe
we can make a decision, say hey, here’s what it looks like to
dredge it, we have to a DEP permit , we have $30,000.00 left and we
know its going to be $60,000.00 to $70,000.00 to do the improvements
then its no way we can do it. Councilman Allar said to some extent
Jason has already done that. Councilman Noll said they’re not.
Councilman Snyder said those are engineering estimates not actual.
Councilman Noll said we need to get some real numbers. Councilman
Snyder said the sad part is, some those estimates they were probably
looking at two years ago when we were looking at dredging. Mr. Reichard
said this one will have exact scale of what we’re proposing now. Now
that we actually put a plan together, I have $40,000.00 there for rock
structures. Which I think, we actually have detailed analysis of the
whole thing. Councilman Noll said its up to but the only thing I’m saying
is we owe to the borough to do it with diligence spend a couple dollars and
find out if we can do, we’re going to spend these dollars anyway than
spend all the engineering dollars and find out we can’t do it.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
Councilman Allar said I’m not sure we’re going to have much of
a choice because five years, if we don’t do something to take care
of the sediment build up, in 5, 6, 7 years, we anticipate how
are we going to dredge the basin? How do we come up with
$50,000, $60,000? Councilman Noll said all I am saying do we
have better choices on how to spend $30,000.00? Mr. Reichard
said I don’t know if you have seen this at all, Springwood Road
is here. You come in here. This is what you call a J hook. These
are just rock structures, in the middle, and they rise up off of
the side. Puts it in and pushes the channel to the side. Veins, this
guy is about six foot deep, obviously in the center. The water flows
over those rocks, creates a hole, whenever it does that it loses
energy creating this pool until that sediment builds up and seeks
its next elevation. Builds up, goes down, builds up and there’s
only about four inch bank, three to one. Vision a back hoe swinging
down here on the side of this, reach out, pull material, two foot deep,
roughly a two foot structure. Councilman Noll said like I said we’ll
probably need an extend a hoe to do that. Do any of the other
municipalities have an extend a hoe? Mr. Reichard said I know
Red Lion municipal authority does, don’t know about the township.
An extend a hoe, has a twenty foot reach you can get two at ten
feet, we’re about fifteen foot from the side I think we can do fine.
Councilman Noll said I just want people to think about that stuff,
we’re going to have maintain, because we don’t have the equipment.
Mr. Reichard said so these three pieces, definitely the borough is
going to have to have help, someone is going to have bring a back
hoe in to do this. Councilman Allar said that’s why I mention to you,
we have this here, the concept is still the same. Sit down and talk to
the township. Mr. Reichard said give it to Dana to look over. Councilman
Allar said yes, Dana has to be part of this, to make sure. Councilman
Allar asked there are going to how high above the surface? Mr. Reichard
said well the point in the center is, the water surface, however deep the
water is in the channel so its six to eight inches, roughly in that area. And
the wings go out, at 5% so tend to be half a foot, roughly the inside is
20 feet, a maximum of a foot high, six inches high. Councilman Allar
asked this is going to be half a foot above the surface? Mr. Reichard said
that’s about a foot. Councilman Allar said about a foot above the surface?
Mr. Reichard said yeah. Councilman Allar said because it seems like
every second or third rain event they’re going to have be some dredging
going over there. You’re not going to collect a lot of sediment with that
height. You know its going to be backing up in there. Mr. Reichard said
well these guys are going two three foot deep, on top of the width of that,
three of them, four of them, each fifty foot long so. Two hundred foot,
by two foot deep, by eight foot wide, that’s going to hold a lot of material.
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 21
Its probably going to be an annual thing, this might be monthly or
every two months something that you are going to have to monitor.
Councilman Allar said the pipe for the Paddock is over here right?
Mr. Reichard said its here. Councilman Noll said I have two fold
question. Mr. Reichard said its, oh no this one here, that one there.
Councilman Noll said I have a two fold question with any of these
projects, we’re at the point where I think that we can soon get
prices and we’ve got to do that because we just keep spinning our
wheels. The other thing we really have to be conscience of what
impact this is going to have with maintenance with this structure on
the borough budgets. Have to the money to put in there. Talking
about renting a back hoe, about every month to clean this out, it
starts to get expensive. Mr. Reichard said that’s something that we
don’t have yet, we don’t know how often that we have to do that
on the raised level. Basically what we run into was, we can only
reach so far with back hoe, can only go so deep with them,this
basically a design that pits the site. Hopefully it takes longer than
that. Councilman Noll said what we need to make sure of, is as
a borough if we can’t afford to maintain this, then we’re right
back where we started from. Mr. Reichard said we talked about this
before, the borough needs to start an annual maintenance plan fund
for this. Councilman Snyder said I think, really that is the catch 22
were in right now. I understand what you are saying, we have no
way to know if its going to take it after every storm, if its going to
be a once a month, once every three month thing, its almost like
snow removal. We budget so much for snow removal this year,
Dana may be out every day and we blew our budget and next year
maybe its not as much. Councilman Noll said the variable is if
you get those belly washer storms, if you don’t get rain. Councilman
Snyder said yeah, all we can really do is trying to say we’ll start
putting saying an extra $5000.00 in and hopefully it covers that year.
Councilman Noll said that’s all I’m advocating. Councilman Allar
said its still going to be divided by three. Councilman Howett asked
when we go in to clean this are we going to need permits to do that
every time, to go into the creek to get into that water. Mr. Reichard
said no. That’s why I’m confused about the maintenance due that
we have to get a permit. There are provisions made that provides
waiver of water obstruction encroachment, for working in a flood plain,
Chapter 105. That’s we tried or assumed that we would be able to
work under. And DEP said yeah we’re fine,as long as the Army Corps
is fine. They’re putting a red flag on it. Councilman Snyder said some
of this that they raising a red flag on because they’ve go their feathers
in uproar, because we didn’t do the wetland easement. Mr. Reichard said
I think that’s part of it because of that. We’re in violation of our permit.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
Councilman Snyder said so they say why should we bend over and
cut you any slack. Mr. Reichard said I’m not going to speculate on
that but you know I’d say we’re in a violation and obviously we’re
working so. You know. Councilman Noll said that section 105 is
a federally accepted section of DEP. Mr. Reichard said yeah. Section
105 regulates all work in a flood plain or water way. There is section
where there is a sub section that provides a waiver of current
requirements. Councilman Snyder asked what about our own existing
permit, that they granted, there’s no provision in there that says we
can go in there. Mr. Reichard said that’s what we’re talking about.
Councilman Allar said if you go in there, you’ll need a permit because
that’s improvement. Mr. Reichard said that’s still regulated under
section 105. Councilman Snyder said I thought there would be something
in our own permit that says you can go in there and make modifications.
Mr. Reichard said the permit is issued in accordance with section 105.
We’re operating under a waiver section of that regulation. Councilman
Allar said they’re pretty clear, you don’t change the banks, you don’t change the bed, if you do that then you need another permits. You
think you can get nine of these things in there, I know your original
number was three. Mr. Reichard said well, these up top here are the
primary, the ones down below in the gray area, they are small structures,
to keep the channel in alignment or actually they will be for maintenance,
to keep water flowing directly to the box not going hap hazard throughout.
Councilman Allar said this? Mr. Reichard said that’s the structure that is
in there now. Councilman Allar said the weight of the material as far
as taking away from the capacity, any numbers on that? Mr. Reichard
said we thought about that, the only area at the berm down here, to this
section. Councilman Allar said so this will be rock down, this is dirt
coming down through? Mr. Reichard said well actually already isolated
at the gabion area so it is kind of following. Councilman Allar said
while Seth is working the numbers, I’m working on the numbers too
and the capacity, I just want a ball park figure here, we know we are
taking 2000 cubic feet of this out, I don’t know what we’re putting
back in. If we’re putting in 1000 and taking out 3, or putting in 2000
and taking out 500, I just don’t know. That’s why I was so concerned
about putting it outside the basin because then we didn’t have the
capacity. Mr. Reichard said most of the stuff is low grade. Councilman
Allar said if its below surface then its fine. Mr. Reichard said I mean
half of this is going to be under water. Councilman Allar said but not
under water but under ground. Mr. Reichard said under ground and
under water. Councilman Allar said if its not under ground it still takes
away, its still displacing water. Mr. Reichard said we can run the
numbers on it. Councilman Allar said again , this is something you
have to do anyway. You can’t be stretching the whole thing overboard.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
Mr. Reichard said in the grand scheme of things, I think this your
best option, works at places of the capacity of that structure, giving
you the ability to actually maintain it. See what happens. Councilman
Noll said you’re well under 10%, 5 to 6%. Mr. Reichard said oh yeah,
initially when we were looking at it, we were around 5. Councilman
Allar said how do you come up with the figures as oppose to say
three here? Mr. Reichard said well there’s still three primarily, there
are three main areas that we’re going to maintain. This last section
is just set off like what we did at the gabion section up there just
division to keep the channel in alignment. Won’t be any back hoes
in there. There just going to be to cause the water flow in a certain
direction. Councilman Allar said you’re still going to collect sediment.
Mr. Reichard said that’s a natural phenomenon that we’re representing
there, that we’re creating that position there, that’s the only way.
It looks more divided. The other one is only a foot and half deep.
So that’s a natural thing, it will have its individual hole that will
seep, flow down. Councilman Allar said I’m also bringing it up
because of the standpoint of cost, if we don’t build it, there is less
cost but also it less that has to pass it. You want to put in here, its
necessary that we don’t go over board either. Mr. Reichard said this
what I thought we should have done based on the grade that we
had to work with. This particular transition we have almost seven
foot that we’re trying to lose to have more water enter to get down
to that box. That is a lot of natural sequence. The separation of
six inches apart, will make it easier for contractor to achieve that
field. The more we keep that channel concentrated in some form,
the more it will go directly through that box and on down stream.
Where it now, it breaks out and just floats around here and the
next thing you know its coming, its stopping material in the
basin. If we can keep that a straight through to the box and out.
Councilman Noll said you see that as a better option than this
maybe rock lining the bank to keep the channel. Mr. Reichard
said this is going to become the natural stream channel, these
structures are going to prevent that. Councilman Howett said
along 616, they are doing that, its really controlling Hanover
junction. Councilman Snyder said I think really to move things
along. I think Seth hit it on the head, when he said now that
we have an actual plan and design, we need to get some numbers
together to say come on tell us if this is even feasible. Tom has
an idea on why the nine better than three. You know what if that
cost comes in at $150,000.00 but you can do three of them at
$60,000.00 that sort of dictates where our project is actually going
to be. And we don’t know that until,we actually get those figures
in. We had it when we were just doing a dredging project but now
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
its to the point that we need to stay, Kinsley what would that cost
to take out this material and to put that in and if we find out that
its still over budget, then we got to try to tailor, we may just go
back to just a dredging project. Who knows. Mr. Reichard said
there are people that actually specialize in this work that would
love to do that. Councilman Snyder said they should be able to
do that free of charge if they see work coming in. Mr. Reichard
said Brent Capatch is he still your guy? Councilman Noll said
he can be contacted. Councilman Snyder said while we are finishing
this up with the dams, I have some other side bar issue here. So
you’re going to send that out then to get some estimates. I think
there is a consensus of council to proceed as necessary. I mean
right now we’re in a holding pattern until that March 11th meeting
anyways. So you can proceed as necessary.
Side Issues Councilman Snyder said on side issues, all connected with the dam.
With Dam What are you going to do then with Rettew, just keep them on hold
at his point and see what is necessary? Mr. Reichard said yes.
Councilman Snyder said maybe we can get in lieu of that, can
Rettew you do something else for us? Mr. Reichard said can you process
our paperwork, so we don’t have trouble. Councilman Snyder said
so you have a contact name there? Mr. Reichard said yes.
Councilman Snyder said we received information I guess it came
Gary from Gary Peacock that there is, there asking for projects for wetland
Peacock reserve program. WRP. Evidently they don’t have enough programs
WRP to fit the money yet, and there asking if anybody knows of any programs
out there. Because they’re saying it hasn’t stirred up much interest
at this point and it is for wetland restoration projects. Maybe we could
use this in lieu of our wetland mitigation thing we need to do. Mr.
Reichard said or use that for funding. I actually have a copy of that.
Councilman Allar said we don’t want to miss the deadline. Councilman
Snyder said yeah, because the deadline for this. Mr. Reichard said we
called, and for this year they want it by December, and if you want it
for next year that next deadline December. Councilman Snyder said
we would probably want it next year for. Mr. Reichard said if we get
a window, a grace period, we can do it anytime. If someone from
council wants to volunteer and make the calls to learn about this
program that would be great. Councilman Allar said my question is
apparently there was a cycle last year, at least there was an announcement
sometime last year so, but again for this year. Did we know about this,
did we not know about this? Councilman Snyder said I don’t think
wetlands was on our radar. Councilman Allar said no but I think it was
on our radar because we knew, that we were going to have to at least
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
move the wetlands. We didn’t know that we would have to take
them out of the basin totally. We knew that we would have to
relocate them. Mr. Reichard said this is the first I’ve heard of it.
Call the NRCF, give them a call. See what you can find out,
limitations, funding, matching what. Councilman Snyder asked
to pass that down. See if we can use it, I don’t know.
Notice Councilman Snyder said we received notice on February 23rd from
from York County Planning , it was about the growing greener application.
YCPC Basically they are saying for them to make use of the properly
allocated funds from the county, they’re saying there hasn’t been’ any progress on our application and they’d like some updates.
They gave Rick Devore or Wayne Lingle, to check on the progress
of your application and work with them towards approval.
Councilman Allar said did you read the second page, at Yoe Borough.
On the back. The very last comment. Councilman Snyder said, waiting
for additional information from Jason Reichard for technical review
by our staff prior to approval of the grant. Yeah, that is why I was
bringing it up to see if you know where we are at. I know where
we’re at here, I think they need to know, if it gets into anything
technical just tell them this is where we’re at. Councilman Allar said
since this is a county allocation, they know that they know that this
is still a viable project. Councilman Snyder said that we’re still looking
into the project. Mr. Reichard said DEP, I think is going to mail a letter.
Councilman Snyder said I don’t know what they’re looking for. Mr.
Reichard said we have until April 1 to write a stash report to DEP
and the county containing where the project is. We have until July
1st to execute a contract with DEP for our project. So we have to
have this thing approved through DEP, Growing Greener and contract
executed at least by July. Councilman Snyder said so you don’t need
to notify them? Mr. Reichard said well I do, I need to write them
a letter by April 1st. Councilman Snyder said you knew to notify them,
you just need to do by April 1st, and you were just going to wait until
you know where we are at. Okay. Mr. Reichard said I’ve been in
communication with the county on this, they know that its on hold.
Councilman Snyder said I think this is just their paperwork that they
had to do, that says hey we made official notification. I figured that
you were in touch with them, and knew what we were waiting on.
Councilman Allar said but also, that there are other projects that
they can allocate money. Councilman Snyder said I think they just
want to make sure that this project is going to go through. Mr. Reichard
said some projects are going to fall through, I think one of them is
York Township stream restoration. Rick Devore, unfortunately
the county allocated money but DEP is stepping in and saying whether
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
they like the project or not. Councilman Allar said that’s upstream
from us? Mr. Reichard said yes. I don’t know.
Notice Councilman Snyder said on another item we have, we received
From from DEP that they received the annual inspections for Basins
DEP 1 and 2. However they are making note that the department provided
Annual us comments relating to our EAP for these dams on January 29th.
Inspection We again, and again is in bold letters, request that you revise the
Report EAP, obtain the required signatures and provide the required number
of copies of this report to this office as soon as possible for review
and approval. Mr. Reichard said that was done. Councilman Snyder
said I guess they are a little bit behind. Mr. Reichard said I knew that
comment was going to come out before they even. Councilman
Snyder said is that why you were working with? Mr. Reichard said
we got the inspection reports in on time. We got it up to them.
Councilman Snyder said that’s our government at work, they are
so far behind that this letter dated February 6th is after that. Mr.
Reichard said we were working on it January but we didn’t get up
to them until after February 6th. Councilman Snyder said I remember
talking to you, I thought that was because they didn’t like something
we sent them.
Local Mr. Reichard said on the Local Capital Loan Program, I thought
Capital they were sending us a letter or some indication of approval.
Loan Councilman Allar said I think its going to be a denial letter.
Park Mr. Reichard said on the community park improvements.
Councilman Noll said I just wanted to update everyone,
we just got the CAD drawing finished. We did a full
survey on the pavilion, we got that on CAD now. That
will be completed. We’ll finish that up and send the
CAD drawings. I guess you have the scope of work
at the pavilion and toilet drawings. Do we talk about
these plans now, no one has seen any of these for
awhile? Mr. Reichard said yeah. Councilman Noll said
we have some sidewalks and proposed toilet drawings.
Councilman Snyder said yes I think everyone needs
to see it and see where we stand as far as schedule.
Mr. Reichard said this is basically everything except
for sidewalk. Councilman Noll said basically what we
looked at here, was water coming down, if this gets
clogged up, or shoots over, its a lot of money to fix
it down through here. One of the things, that we were
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
looking at is the water is going to want to flow to this
side. Solving two problems, one is that we have no
sidewalks to get up to the park, put sidewalk and curbing
here and force the water down to the existing culvert,
saving all this piping and letting the natural water course
down there. We looked at getting rid of this, because not
many people would have handicap access to this. This
court back. As far as the park is concerned, you have the
pavilion area, the pavilion pretty much stays the same.
What we’re looking at is part of the pavilion restoration,
is taking part of this roof off, it’s a wood roof. We’ll
put a metal roof on here, replacing and fixing some of
the sidewalk, putting hose bed out here, to relieve
out here it can be done pretty quickly. In the kitchen
its self, taking out the cabinets and putting in some
decent cabinets in and possibly a triple bowl sink.
Getting rid of the serving line, its bowed out, and trying
to do that properly. Recoating the roof, repainting the
building. Putting the rest of hand rail that is missing.
On the back side putting dirt probably about three foot
out, you can see that a lot of the foundation is being
exposed and its starting to undermine the building. So
we’ve got to get that solved and taken care of some
day lighting issues with some floor drains in here. Re do
all the electrically, since this is the distribution point for
the park, not sure yet if has to be a 2 or 4 hundred amp
service. I think you want to run everything off of it.
So we have a main panel, where our other little building
is, use to be bandstand/refreshment building, put a
sub panel in there to come down and run the bathrooms.
The parking, handicapped accessible parking for the
pavilion. The path going down to the toilet rooms,
nothing is going to change to the toilet rooms since
we talked before. Then the park itself, the big thing
is making everything handicapped accessible. We have
the rows going through, half basically going through
the different play elements, for different age kids.
We have equipment picked out for those areas. A couple
of trees would have to be removed,which will actually
be a very big thing, to go around this pavilion. Trees
are hanging over this thing, and have already done
some damage. Clear up trees here that need to go.
Rework the parking up here, put in some parking up
in here, probably some stone crusher run base versus
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
paved parking area. Mr. Reichard said hard surfaces for the
ADA parking. Councilman Noll said by law. That’s the
basic jest of what’s been designed. Mr. Reichard said I thought
they saw this I apologize. Some of this. There’s a sign in
there, an ADA accessible sign. Councilman Noll said we
spread some benches around, I know the other thing we looked
at, I have this at the office. Spotting some light poles around,
that we can have cameras off of and also lights off of. Have some
lighting up there, and we also looked at having all that underground.
So we don’t have the wires, clean it up to look nice. Mr. Reichard
said you can run conduit for your security lines. We are going to
have to list this as projects because the cost is going to be an issue.
So the storm water pipe is going to be a project, concrete sidewalk
coming down will be a project, the parking lot will be a project.
Individual breakout of the equipment so that when we go through
this, we will say where we are at. It gives some flexibility to do
some things now and maybe postpone some things for later. See
how this works out. Councilman Noll said the pavilion would
be a project, toilet rooms would be a project. The toilet work is
pretty much required. Mr. Reichard said yep. There is some
work we can not eliminate. We could eliminate the auxiliary
parking, its not on an existing area. We could eliminate the
sidewalk, that is further down the road. Six swing, or three
bay swing set. Tetherball pole, multi bar jungle gym type deal.
Four of those spring rockers. There is a tire swing. Seesaw.
And up at the existing playground we are adding a toddler
swing and a toddler play set. It will be in the similar area,
similar age groups. Councilman Noll said basically starting
at the youngest and work your way down through. It does
show handicapped accessibility from the pavilion area here
down the basketball courts. If push came to shove, make
the main park accessible and possibly not going down to here.
Councilman Snyder said it looks good are we still on schedule?
Mr. Reichard said yes and no, its pushing. I need to get this
stuff up to DCNR and get their thoughts so we can get
their final contract. I think I have most of it now. Councilman
Noll said I’m do some revisions. Mr. Reichard said hopefully
it will be enough that I can do a DCNR submission. Here you
go what do you think, give us your comments, then we’ll
proceed with the final design once we get the final blessing
from them. We will turn this into a final contract set, get it
out on the street. Basically we need to build this mid summer
to fall in order to meet the deadline set of December of 2009.
This definitely has to be a fall project. A motion was made
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
by Councilman Allar to have Mr. Reichard submit that to DCNR
for approval with the understanding that there may be some
minor revisions after the fact. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
go for it. Councilman Noll said that’s one thing we are putting
some benches so people can sit on. Councilman Snyder said that
is one thing I heard people complain about not having a place
to sit with the play area that we have now.
CDBG Mr. Reichard said CDBG, we called them again, we are looking for
funding to be released this May or June. Our project will be placed
as priority since we ahead of the game for design. That’s good news.
Growing Mr. Reichard said bad news, the Growing Greener Grant that was
Greener submitted in 2008, was not accepted or approved for funding. That
Grant was the grant that was going to do additional gabion water, install
some water quality inlets in the borough, money for flood waters
on Mill Creek above the basins. That one was not elected.
County Aid Mr. Reichard said the application for county aid, I talked with the
county engineer, the county has not included a line item for
county aid in their budget for 2009. So, the program that we
previously applied for is non existent. However that doesn’t mean
the borough shouldn’t still resubmit the application as a general
request with hopes that it may be funded some other program or
line item that they may have available. That’s up to you. Councilman
Allar said well you’ve already done the work on it. Mr. Reichard said
yeah. Councilman Allar said so it means changing the date. Mr. Reichard
said changing the date and the title and introductory paragraph basically.
Here is a project that the borough needs assistance with on these issues,
take this into consideration as you prepare your own list of projects for
the year. Councilman Allar said the collapse of either one of those bridges,
means automatic flooding to Yoe. Mr. Reichard said its up to you guys
if you want to, its no guarantee at all at this point. Councilman Snyder
said you’re looking at $150.00 to change the paragraph. A motion was
made by Councilman Allar to resubmit that. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said go for it.
Letter Councilman Snyder said we do have a copy of the letter from C. S.
to Mr. Davidson on his comments, on the Tim Cottrell property regarding the
Cottrell storm water waiver request.
FYI Councilman Snyder said C.S. Davidson through Rick Resh, through
Mill the Mill Creek Interceptor Group, released their 2008 wastewater
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
Creek flow summary for Springettsbury. Yoe Borough’s actual flows for
Interceptor 2008 was down .6%. And we now have, we’re at 88.6 % for
Group 2008, so we still have EDU’s.
Holley Councilman Snyder said what came in today was a letter from
Associates Holley & Associates, that was just a notice to inform us that
Letter York County is reviewing an application for the NPDES for
Re: Glenlyn Glenlyn Enterprises up on Orchard Street which they are being
Ent. nice letting us know that they are doing that. We already
had discussed that.
DCED Councilman Allar asked Sam, did you talk to Miller on that
Grant DCED Grant? Councilman Snyder yeah, the money is not there.
They pulled it. Councilman Allar said do you mean they pulled
the money for all of it, all the revitalization? Councilman Snyder
said for right now, until they work out the budget, he said
there not approving any more for this year. He said once the
budget is approved they may have some for next year to apply
in September time frame, July to September. Councilman Allar
said I’m saying whiting out the line item versus putting it on
hold. Councilman Snyder said right now, the money that was
earmarked, they work on July to July budget, the end of the
money for, we’re talking about 2008 into 2009. They took away
the money that they already had earmarked up to July 2009.
If it wasn’t already approved by December, that December
17, or 21st deadline, there not approving anymore. There putting
that back into the pot to help balance the budget for 2009-2010.
Until that budget is approved there not putting anymore of the
money back into 2009 and he has no idea what he’s going to
get if anything for 2009 July into 2010. Councilman Manns said
there was an article that Governor Rendell wants to renew the
program but. Councilman Allar said there is a possibility on the
second half of this year. Councilman Snyder said yes, there’s
a possibility on the second half of this year but at this point he
couldn’t even tell what he is going to get. Councilman Allar asked
he did not say that you couldn’t have two and the same time right?
Councilman Snyder said I never even brought that up, it was do
you have any money to? He said, he was getting like $89,000.00
just last year, from him they took $56,000.00 because he had
only approved like two programs in the first part of last year.
So he said he lost the rest of that. So he said next year starting
in July once the budget’s approved, he may only get $40,000.00
for the whole year. Councilman Allar said so if we had put it
in, in September when we actually made the motion and passed it,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
we may have had it. Councilman Snyder said possibility, well
according to what Mike Waugh said no, because DCED is saying
only one at a time. Councilman Allar said well that was bad
information. Councilman Snyder said so that’s the status on that.
Phone Councilman Manns said I’ll make a call to see whomever, basically
Call just what we want to do is, with the basin, if we have to move the
wetland. Mr. Reichard said you’re talking about a ¼ of acre
upstream, ¾ acre. Councilman Manns said it depends on what the
Army Corps decides.
107 W. Mr. Shearer said the latest item, Sandy received a call the other
Broad St. day from the Dallastown Postmaster concerning a second mailbox
that appeared at 107 W. Broad Street. The box is marked 107B.
And I guess they have been receiving mail at the post office for
that box. They’re not going to start delivering mail to that box
without our say so. If they would, then it would be considered
an address. We have not advised them at this time that it is an
address, to do anything with it. So they inquired to us about a
new address, basically that is what there new inquiry was. Advise
them of it. It is a single family unit. The building I’m referring to
is the old church, it’s a single family unit. It is being billed by the
Sewer Authority for a single unit. It has one electric meter, one
water service. It has never been applied for a two family. Its not
currently not registered in the property maintenance program as
being a rental. I did talk to Dan and Kevin Hertzog from Code
Administrators. Basically I wouldn’t necessarily say the problem
being a rental property, I think it would fall under Dan for a two
unit. I know Dan is looking into all that the zoning ordinance
contains. We are pretty much in agreement that all three of us,
would go together. Kevin Hertzog can’t just show up and say its
a two unit and after the work has been done. We don’t know at
this point whether the mail is for that address, if its actually
a two unit building. I’m not sure yet. One of my thoughts was,
I don’t know someone moved back, the names they did give me.
There are two names for that particular mail box. They don’t
match the property owner, current resident. The economy these
days, if the people moving back in are family members or what.
You would think they would use the same mailbox and same
address. And that was one of my biggest things, if it has been
converted, there would more than likely be one or more UCC
violations. That why we need to get Kevin inside for it. Since
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 32
he has stickers that say vacate, forcibly to get them out. We do
not know at this time, we will continue. We are trying to get
our best game plan. Kevin did advise me, that since he works
for you, if council directs him, to investigate this, then he can.
He just can’t go there just because we say, I call him and say
it appears to be a conversion. Councilman Snyder said to proceed
as necessary to enforce the ordinances. There should be a consensus
of council to enforce the ordinances. If you need a motion from
council for involvement of Code Administrators. Mr. Shearer
said I don’t need that, the code did give me the authority to
get expertise as needed. Councilman Snyder said thank you for
making council aware of this and proceed as necessary. Councilman
Snyder said I was wondering if they ever put up that porch. Mr.
Shearer said the screened in porch attached to the camper. Councilman
Snyder said I remember a porch issue, that they had to tear down
a porch. Councilman Manns said Jonathan Snyder was involved with
something. Councilman Snyder said its probably not a bad idea
to get into the place, who knows maybe they are not renting it out.
Councilman Noll said if they aren’t renting out, we still won’t
grant a separate address, we don’t want to do that. Councilman
Snyder said if its in-laws, people are bringing in-laws back into
their house, there is nothing wrong with that. Councilman Howett
said along time ago it was separate.
Good Councilman Manns said good job on the snow removal. Councilman
Job Snyder said I want to thank the Mayor on his participation in snow
and removal. I think that came up very abruptly.
Elm St. Mayor Sanford said we have an ongoing problem and I addressed it
Apts. during the last snow, I’ll readdress it with this snow. Its with Mr.
Henry and the Elm Street apartments bringing snow out unto
his parking lot and letting it on the street. Last time he put it in
the entrance to the alley, this time it was slightly off center but
still blocking the alley and storm drain. I placed a call today on
behalf of the borough. So we’ll address it one more time and then
I’ll address council to cite him. Councilman Snyder asked have you
been notifying Dan? Technically he’d be the one to issue the citation,
because its illegal to dump the snow. Mr. Shearer said its illegal under
state motor vehicle code. An officer can write a ticket for that.
Councilman Snyder said handle it that way then, just call the police.
You can handle it as mayor.
Snow Councilman Allar asked how is the sidewalk shoveling going, they’re
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 33
Sidewalk not doing it? Mayor Sanford said actually it looks pretty good. There’s
Removal only one or two that didn’t do it this time, that I could find. Do you
know of anybody? There was one there at the housing next to Tom
but they got that. How about the vacate house on Broad Street? Mr.
Shearer said I believe you are right. Mayor Sanford said can we
get that, just to shovel out of safety. Mr. Shearer said yes.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Snyder said there is no February report.
Councilman Snyder said January’s report shows 1 ¾ hours and
eight miles. Met with Dana about the Cottrell issue and inspected the infiltration
pit at 39 W. George Street. Anything for zoning officer? Other than what we
already discussed with Cottrell. Councilman Noll said the letter was sent out and
pictures were taken.
Emergency Management Report
Mayor Sanford said the only thing that we received and took possession
of the two pagers. Those were reprogrammed and issued to Rodney Smith and myself.
The secretary asked and then we will get the bill? Mayor Sanford said there is no bill
for pagers. Bill for the radios, is still pending until they get something that works
Mayor and Police Report
Corres- Mayor Sanford said I’ll start with correspondence, I’ll forward the
pondence following to Sandy to place in files or into circulatory file. We got
a letter from the County of York, Department of Emergency
Services, giving us an update on the radio system. The short version
of that is that they hope to have it up and totally operating correctly,
the target date now is October of 2009. I received information from
the U. S. Census Bureau, explaining the benefits of the census.
I received letters from Leadership York and York County Economic
Development Corporation and the Red Lion Senior Center.
York Township Regional Police reported the following for January
2009. There were 30 calls, no accidents, 5 traffic citations, 4 misdemeanor/felony,
2 juvenile arrest. Service hours 56 and administrative hours 35.04.
Out of Mayor Sanford said I will be out of town from Saturday March
Town 7th until Saturday March 14th.
Secretary’s Report Page 34
SEO The secretary gave Jason, SEO information he has to send to DEP.
Info He took it with him.
Appoint A motion was made by Councilman Allar to appoint William Garman
to the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority for a five year term expiring
March 2014. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Hours The secretary said the hours for March 9th and March 23rd the office
Changed hours will be from 8AM until noon due to appointments.
Audit Councilman Snyder said to the last of my knowledge with auditors,
that went well, we met with them. Ask about any concerns that we
have, they are going to get back to us, I did have four questions, a lot
of them concerning changing tax collector status, how we’re going
to do that books. They are going to respond back and is complete
at this point. The secretary said no, it is not complete. They have to
that change order. Its all new, they do things completely different.
They are not use to how it was with SEK, so they have to come in
and do some adjustments on Quick Books and that’s fine. And there
were some errors, and I admit I made them. But before SEK would
just fix them. They don’t like that, they want me to fix them so they
are going to have to tell me how to fix them, to have some Quick
Books time. It will cost a little bit more money.
50th Councilman Snyder said other items for secretary. We were notified
Anniversary of the 50th anniversary of the York County Planning Commission
asking people to join them on May 13th down at the White Rose
Room at the York Fairgrounds from 6 until 9PM, 6 to 7 is social,
7 to 9 is dinner and program.
Household Councilman Snyder said we received notice from York County
Hazardous Solid Waste that the next household hazardous waste collection
Collection program is scheduled for Saturday May 2 from 9 to 1. A list of
acceptable items is on their website.
Report Councilman Snyder said we received the quarterly report from
From the sewer authority for outstanding invoices, on the municipal
YBSA service fees and the sewer bill.
Occupation Councilman Snyder said on the occupation and per capita exonerations
and Per for 2008 taxes. Any questions or comments, if not do I have a motion.
Unfinished Business(cont.) Page 35
Capita A motion to accept the list of occupation and per capita
Exonerations exonerations and exemptions was made by Councilman
And Manns. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll.
Exemptions All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so carried.
Meeting Councilman Snyder said I met with Pete on a lot of the issues
with that he had come up with, the main thing being the codification.
Solicitor He’s still looking at the one ordinance that they were suggesting
that we draft that had to do with us being accountable for
insurance loss in the borough. I personally didn’t want to get
involved with that. I can understand why they are recommending
that we do it, because if somebody’s house burns, and they
decide they want to just take the money and run, we’re stuck
with a settlement. And the idea of this ordinance was, the borough
any insurance carrier in the borough that has an insured property
the municipality would be named as partial insured. They had
a ratio of the claim was over so many dollars, the borough would
have to get so much on retainer here to make sure that they did
what they were suppose to do. Personally I tried to tell Pete,
I said while it may be a good idea, I don’t think this municipality
is set up with. We still have the other ordinances to follow that
we don’t need it. If we have eyesore their still the legal owner of
that property and we don’t have that legal nightmare of that.
Everything else, the only other thing, the issues with Chapter
15 that have to do with the streets. They are recommending that
ones that we don’t have, where is right now they are set back
for revised for a future date, they’re recommending that we
delete them out if they are not needed. They also want before
they come down, an assessment they called it a survey for
engineering study type thing that all our stop signs, speed
limit signs, that we have already adopted are indeed posted
that way out on the street. So I was actually going to get
with Dana on that, once he finishes that up we can sit
down as a council and say this is what we want to add into
it. Cause everything else is fine, as what they recommended.
We just have to give them what we want to add to it. Any
new ordinance we have passed. Once Dana gets back to me,
I can give everyone a call to set up a time to meet with
them and anyone that wants to show up can show up.
Joint Councilman Allar said in the minutes, you have a correspondence
State Joint State Government General Assembly and a copy of
New Business(cont.) Page 36
Government resolution 845. They’d like me to be a member of this
General advisory committee. While I am on the list, I told them
Committee it would be conditional that I talk to council, before I
actually say yes and go ahead with it. I’m trying make
everyone aware of it, anyone that has questions. You
had a chance to look at this. Apparently there was
a landslide in Allegheny County in 2006, it went
across a four lane highway and several railroad lines
of Norfolk and Southern. It happened to be the line
that handles 100 trains a day to Chicago and New York
Needless to say, Norfolk and Southern was not happy.
I can’t imagine what went on at the capital. They set
up a committee to find out why these things happen,
what’s wrong with the planning process. That was done,
studies were generated etc., now they want to continue
this committee for possible changes in the municipal
planning code. If you look at the people that are members,
there is a really good cross section. So anyway I wanted
to bring it up.
Baseball Councilman Allar said Red Lion called me, Stew Graybill.
Field They’d like to use our baseball field. This is not replacing
Dallastown Cougars, its really trying to work out some
kind of scheduling that they can use it as well as Cougars.
I don’t have any dates or things like that. I want to bring
it up here, if no one has any objections, I can sit down
and find out what’s involved. I would like to do this,
simply because of the other things that I’m looking
at doing with Red Lion such as trash collection. The more
yeses we give them, the more yeses we get back. So, of
course bringing in the Dallastown Cougars and so forth.
I don’t expect this to cost us anything, anything involved
they would have to pay for it. If Yoe Borough ever gets
a baseball team. They have been talking about pooling
recreation associations in the area, coming together.
This is separate this is just Red Lion. Any comments
anything? Councilman Manns said I heard about this
from Theresa Craley, think it’s a good idea. Councilman
Snyder asked is this Red Lion borough? Councilman
Allar said yes. Councilman Noll said, so Cougars would
have rights of first refusal or whatever you want to call it.
Councilman Allar said the Cougars with their schedule, they
have first choice, Red Lion would have to fit into their
schedule. I’ll call you Sandy, to get the contact for the
New Business(cont.) Page 37
Dallastown Cougars. Councilman Snyder said I think if
it can be worked out between the schedule between the
two organizations, if it can be, I don’t know what the
Cougars schedule is, since they were going to provide
the diamond tec and they were going to paint the dugouts
and they were providing for the porta potties, I think
there has to be some consideration that Red Lion has
to give back that Dallastown won’t be on the hook for
so its not that Dallastown is providing all this work and
benefits, and Red Lion is coming in on a freebie and they
don’t have to provide anything. Councilman Allar said
I was already thinking of that, if a second porta potty is
needed for example, also the field is going to be used
twice as hard, so maybe mid season Red Lion can come
in and down and do what Dallastown did the beginning
of the season. I think they’d be willing to use it. The
secretary said would they be using it during daytime or
night time. I meant evening until 8PM until 8:30PM.
Councilman Snyder said one thing I think we should ask
for, in writing, for the gentleman to come to the council
meeting or whatever. That we know that Dallastown
Cougars are on board with what the final determination
is. Because I don’t want, we’re trying to smooth over
Red Lion here but Dallastown Cougars are our home
team and we’ve been with them for years. I want to make
sure that they are indeed kosher and copasetic with all
this. Councilman Allar said I’m not going to sit down
with Red Lion, until I talk to Dallastown Cougars and
are on board. I already told them they have first choice,
preference. Councilman Snyder said I just don’t want
Dallastown Cougars to think they are strong armed
into it, if it works, it works if not. Councilman Allar said
I know that they’re not out there everyday.
YACOG Councilman Manns reported that YACOG is dissolved
at the meeting last Thursday due to lack of interest.
They put papers in to dissolve. Councilman Snyder said
since that was all done by ordinances and resolutions,
is there anything that? Nothing that we have to pass
to say we recognize. Councilman Manns said its dissolved
and we registered with the PACOG for one year. Earl
Shuckman is not running for office. And several other
officials are not running. Councilman Snyder said that’s
the problem with having elected officials as part of that,
New Business (cont.) Page 38
if they aren’t re elected. One that originally started it was
Don O’Shell, he moved on to bigger, better things.
Payment of the Bills
Councilman Snyder asked if there were any questions or concerns
on the bills? A motion was made by Councilman Howett to pay the bills as
listed. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said bills paid.
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to adjourn the meeting at 9:45PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said meeting adjourned.