YOE BOROUGH PAGE 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on August 5, 2008 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street,
Yoe, PA. The meeting was called to order by Council President Sam Snyder at 7PM with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council members in attendance: Sam Snyder
Others in attendance: Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
John Sanford, Mayor
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Connie Crull, Tax Collector
Jason Reichard, Engineer
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Steve Grim and Roger Strawser, Residents
Councilman Snyder asked if everyone had an opportunity to look over the meeting minutes from last month. I have one question. The secretary asked if I missed a page? Councilman Snyder asked are we missing page 21? The secretary said probably its just missed from the packet. I can copy it for you. Just page 21?
Mayor Sanford said I have page 21. The secretary said sometimes the paper sticks
together. I’ll get you one. Sorry about that. Councilman Snyder asked are there any other additions or corrections? If not do I have a motion to accept. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to accept the minutes from July 1, 2008. The motion was seconded by Councilman Crull. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
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Councilman Snyder said onto visitors. We don’t have any names on the agenda, is there anyone here that would like to be recognized? State your name. I’m Steve Grim from Broad Street. The reason I’m here today is to see whether you can put in stop signs and or speed bumps of some sort on Broad Street to help with speeding. We all have kids up there and with all the cars flying up and down, recently I had a dog of mine hit. The gentleman was flying through. How do you guys feel about putting up stop signs or putting speed bumps or what have you? We all have children, right across the street, there are kids also. Councilman Snyder said I’ll let two people speak on that cause we took a two pronged approach, first I’ll let the engineer give the engineering answer. And then I’ll turn it over to the mayor, to inform you what he found out on the enforcement end. Jason. Mr. Reichard said well basically we requested a traffic study to be completed by York County Planning Commission, you have to have a traffic engineer certify that it is constructed properly at an appropriate location. Unfortunately, the results came back with no recommendations for speed control on that street. It’s the borough position, that we can’t simply install facilities at will,for the fear that if something would happen, they’re held liable without a
professional certification. So any recommendation that came back was to enhance
enforcement, law enforcement in that area. I believe the mayor was looking into that to see how. Mayor Sanford said we did a detail, and I’m sorry I didn’t come
prepared with dates, I can get those if you give me a number I can get those back to you, several times at different times of the day, targeting mostly around the evening hours between 4 and 7. Different lengths of time, at no time did any details clock anyone over twenty nine miles an hour. Mr. Grim said when they see them, everyone is going to slow down. Mayor Sanford said well it was done with plain cars as well on side alleys, that did not stand out. The presence of the vehicle was not always a factor there. Mr. Grim said so basically its going to take some kid getting hit to get something done. Mayor Sanford said all I can tell you is what the police department has reported back to me. Mr. Grim said cops even fly through.
Mayor Sanford said I heard that story and I addressed that story, with the lieutenant, and he assured me that, that would be taken care of. Mr. Grim said I saw that sitting out on the porch, I’m trying to cause a problem, its just not my kids, its all kids. I have lived there for a year and I have to grab my kid on the sidewalk because of the cars. Its going to take a kid getting hit, especially mine.
Mayor Sanford could we request that we target their time in the borough on that
street. Councilman Allar said if I could throw something out on the table here. A couple of years, I attend a LTAP class. LTAP, who aren’t familiar, is Local
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Technical Assistance Program. These are private traffic engineers. They have people who specialize in traffic problems. They have a whole gamut, its not
one or two, there are several dozen. Which statistically in other municipalities, and other communities around the country, they can say what seems to work and at least what can be applied to the area. All you have to do is make some phone calls, and have them come down here and walk the grounds. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. I think its worth a try. Councilman Snyder asked do they sign off on traffic studies? Councilman Allar said we’ll their traffic engineers, if they have an
idea, they could probably go back to the county and cooperate with the county, on
behalf of the county and that’s going to maybe have the county take a different look at it. Mr. Shearer said they won’t sign off on your study, they give you recommendations, its up to us, to get the county to do the study, that says what we want it to say. Councilman Allar said but still, they will give us in writing. Mr. Shearer said right, but they won’t actually give us the engineering study. And I’ve read PENN DOT’s traffic common handbook, and believe it or not we are already
employing a traffic common technique, with parking on both sides of the street, because of the narrowness of that street. I don’t know, speed bumps. Councilman Allar said so there again, I don’t think we have enough information for a fix. All I’m saying, if they have information to give us, we will at least touch the wall.
Councilman Snyder said basically what we’re getting at is, our hands are tied,
engineering wise there is nothing we can do, to back us up, we just can’t go and plunk in a stop sign because they won’t allow it and if we put it in its unenforceable and puts us up for liability. So the only thing we did have control about was speed control and enforcement in that aspect. We’ve gone that route, and the police didn’t find when they were out. Its not saying we’re not going to continue it but so far, they haven’t found a widespread. Mayor Sanford asked,
are we targeting the right hours? 4 in the afternoon until 7 night. Mr. Grim said its
all day long, from what I understand from my wife, its in the mornings when I go to work, in the morning, I’ve been late I’ve gotten out quicker than I should but its all day long. I mean my kid is only two years old, she is trapped in the house all day long. He has kids. My neighbors have kids. Councilman Myers said I’ve lived on that street for twenty years, and I’ve had two kids grow up so I know all about
the speeding. The borough has done a lot of stuff. I just heard about this LTAP, I’m all for them at least talking to them. Mr. Grim said I don’t want someone’s kid to get hurt, if we could put in a speed bump. Councilman Myers said what is going to happen if someone flies down that road, at 70MPH Sir, and hits that speed bump and loses control and hits your child walking on the sidewalk. How are you going
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to feel then? That’s what I’m saying, there’s just as much liability that way as it is
not having something there. Mr. Grim said but if they see the speed bump then its going to make them slow down. Councilman Myers said that’s the thing, if they see it, I agree, I agree with what you’re saying but it only takes that one person going 70 MPH and hits the speed bump, and loses control and here you are, his
house is pretty close to the straight. I not saying that, that’s not going to happen.
Councilman Snyder said we as a borough council have to have a engineering study to back up whatever device we would have to put in. We’re open to anything. When we went to the county and asked for that, they came back with no recommendation. So there you are. We can’t do anything other than enforcement.
And that’s. Councilman Snyder said I think we go with the LTAP thing. Councilman Myers said yeah, I make a motion we check that, that’s something
new, didn’t hear about. Councilman Snyder said we are willing to try anything.
Councilman Myers said I agree, when it comes to that street, there is no doubt.
Mr. Grim said I would appreciate it. Councilman Allar said I’ll set something up
Barry and I’ll let you know. We can hear what they have to say. I’ll get your
numbers, leave your numbers. Do you have a piece of paper? Councilman Allar said I make a motion to have LTAP visit the borough and analyze traffic on Broad
Street. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried. Mr. Strawser said in watching and paying attention, there is a definitely a change in traffic flow over the last few years, people trying to cut across traffic. Stop signs maybe only one aspects, maybe there are other ways to that we can take care of things. Young kids and their bikes in the alley ways and stuff blew through the stop signs. I have pulled them over and talked to them and I tell people all the time when I’m walking across the street. I say what does 25 MPH look like with me standing along the curb. I have a loud motorcycle, when I’m going across Broad Street even at 30MPH, how fast does that really look to you with you standing on the curb. Maybe its not the speed aspect that we would deter someone. Everybody aware, get everyone involved. Councilman Snyder said I think that’s what the mayor was eluding to, when the police were out there, they might notice someone going 29MPH. Mr. Strawser said I see them more often, I just don’t see them at the right time. Mayor Sanford said you tell me the time, I’ll have them there. Mr. Strawser said that’s just it, if I knew the time that they were going to do it. Mayor Sanford said unfortunately we don’t have an officer in the borough 24 hours a day. We don’t have that luxury. Just the geographics you eluded too, the traffic flow. We have more coverage in this municipality than
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probably anybody else because they cross here to get to the other municipalities.
So, that helps. That visibility helps. Councilman Myers said its hard, I’ve seen them, me myself, right below my house, you have a police officer, John had a police officer sitting right by the stop sign and I was sitting down there and talking to him. You think someone would run that stop sign. Nobody runned that stop sign. That was at 5:30PM at night. When I came home he was there, no one runned that
stop sign. He is being paid for that, to sit there. Mr. Strawser said we are only one portion of town, are there other areas? Mayor Sanford said we have details on George Street coming in at the s curve, on the other side coming out of town and going in from Red Lion, that is typically an high speed area. We’ve done enforcement on Main Street. No relationship to me, but there’s a good spot right beside my house that I advised them to use. They can sit there for hour one day and not get anything and we’ve done that, with some large trucks that we had complaints on. Clocked them three different times, did not getting anyone violating
any laws. Councilman Allar said some school buses too. Mayor Sanford asked on
Broad? I think we addressed that. Councilman Myers said you want to see some real speed on Broad Street, when John does the snow watch thing, you have to have one side of the street, it depends when he calls that and there’s no traffic on,
which is your side street, the snow is all gone on that side, watch them then. Mr.
Shearer said parking on both sides of the street is a traffic common, they have to do a contain or pull in because of passing on the street. Mayor Sanford said we’re sensitive to your issue, if I knew how to accomplish more for your benefit, tell me what to do. Mr. Strawser said that’s it, I wish there was more I could do too. Mayor
Sanford said and I wish we had more time and finances to work with to have an officer to sit there more but we’re kind of limited in our resources. Councilman Snyder said we are working on it though. Councilman Myers said I will keep you posted if I see or hear anything. Councilman Snyder said anything else. Thanks for coming tonight.
Mr. Grim asked what are you going to do for recreation for the children. You have a baseball field here that’s not being used. I understand that the high school/middle school uses it for football practice. Summer is getting ready to come, I was just told maybe its not. I have a certain amount of time, I have children, are you opposed to having a little league team, what have you? Little league, tball team, softball team what have you. Are you guys opposed to anything like that? The secretary said fall baseball is using the field from August 1 until October 31. The baseball field is pretty much being utilized from April until the end of October.
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Councilman Snyder said that’s every night. The secretary said pretty much. Dallastown Cougars. Mr. Grim asked do you have something only for Yoe?
Councilman Snyder said as a matter of fact, our rec program, we did away with
quite a few years ago, because of lack of interest. We sent our kids, via a stipend paid to Dallastown. The secretary said the whole York Township Recreation Commission folded after Dale Dalton left. Councilman Snyder said to the best of our knowledge Dallastown Cougars, I don’t know if its every night but I think they use this as a home field, practice field. The secretary said they play games on it and practice on it. They have to provide us a certificate of insurance to play up there. Mr. Grim asked are you guys opposed to a team named after Yoe to play Dallastown or Red Lion? I mean we have plenty of people to donate their time.
The secretary said Dallastown doesn’t have a team, not sure about Red Lion.
Mr. Grim said a team just from Yoe, Yoe versus Dallastown. Councilman Snyder said you may find that the Cougar makeup may have a whole team from Yoe as far
as I know. Mr. Grim said one that is strictly from Yoe. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I am saying, you may find out you may have enough kids from the Cougar teams. The secretary said Dallastown Cougars play within the organization. They don’t go out and touch anyone else. Its not just Dallastown people, its whomever who can afford to sign up and they make sure they are part of the team for $25.00 to $30.00 and get a uniform and you get a trophy at the end of the season. As for Dallastown Summer Recreation, there is not more summer recreation. I’m not sure about Red Lion. I think York Township is has summer rec. But there is no more Dallastown, the reason we have the summer day camp because there is no more Dallastown Recreation in the summer that’s why the church got involved. Mr. Grim said there also could be football. The secretary said
the Dallastown Cougars also have football and cheerleading up at Queen Street field at Dallastown. The fall baseball is until October 31. Cougar football begins in August. Councilman Allar said they aren’t up there more than twice a week. The secretary said I think what he is saying, you have to get your paper work together and make sure the municipalities were willing to play. If not you would just have a team and no one to play against. Mr. Grim said I don’t how many kids would be playing. The secretary said and I don’t know how many in the Dallastown Cougars. Their phone number is in the phone book and ask how many children from Yoe participate. Councilman Allar said Sam would it be better if we had a rec board? Councilman Snyder said I think they would incorporate under their own auspices as like Yoe Ball Association, just like Cougars, just incorporate as their
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little organization. Councilman Myers said when I played for the Yoe Baseball team years ago was that through recreation then. The secretary said we had recreation when I was here before. Councilman Myers said and I know why we got rid of it because no one would serve on the board .One time I went around and actually beat on doors to get people. It didn’t help. Councilman Snyder said you really need to talk to someone from the Dallastown Cougar organization, find out what would be involved because of teams playing teams, do they have to generated with, even numbers so there’s always a team to play a team on every certain day. I mean I don’t think the council is opposed to you starting up a baseball team . Mr. Grim said baseball, football, basketball it doesn’t matter, something for the kids to do after they come home from school or in the summer. Regardless, whether it’s a skate park, whether it would be baseball, if you enough people to donate their time.
What is it going to take to do something to for the kids. Solicitor Solymos said its up to people like you, sir, to help and come to tell the borough this that you need that. Councilman Myers said I guess we could form a recreation committee, and ask the people to be on it. The secretary said you could use it as a stepping stone to see what you have. Councilman Myers said we use to have that. The secretary said I am not sure with the insurance, if it was borough sponsored, we might need insurance. Mr. Grim said it could bring Yoe back. Councilman Myers said we use to have six on the rec board. We gave them $250.00. They could do what they wanted to. Councilman Allar said there’s nothing on the ordinance that said it’s a certain amount. Councilman Myers said no, I don’t think there is anything like that. The secretary asked if we have a recreation ordinance? Councilman Snyder said no. Pete, do you want to chime in here, there was a side bar conversation going up here, to get clarification for council, I think we may be thinking of two separate things. One has consequences to the municipality, the other one doesn’t. Solicitor Solymos said obviously if you have recreation, you’re going to need insurance, understanding the liability you’ll have to supply officials to oversee and supervise the activities, be responsible for that, there will expense involved with that. Getting people to act on the recreation commission. The liability involved,as I’ve seen it over the years doing municipal work, you get less and less rec commissions because of that. But that doesn’t stop anyone of the citizens from getting together, forming the teams asking the municipality to use the fields, to use the playgrounds for their basketball leagues for their basketball teams. Sort of like the City of York they have a three on three tournaments all the time. That is strictly privately done, and privately funded. Mr. Allar has talked about other ways of privately funding some recreation. If you want to get into that, you know what the
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history was on that. And there’s no, nobody is stopping anyone from forming a league, forming teams, getting people together and having coffee at their homes , talking to the parents and getting involved. That’s probably what they are asking for, of getting it. Maybe at some point there will be a need for a recreation commission but just to create a commission because this is the first person who has come and told borough council that you need that, without looking into it further. That’s why I said, it’s a good thing that this gentleman came in, he ought to look into see what he can, and how much interest and how much more of an interest there is the community. Because there is potential expense, not only for insurance
but employees and manning the system. Councilman Allar asked but there is going to be insurance costs if they do it on their own or with the borough involved. We aren’t going to allow them on the property without insurance. Solicitor Solymos said but they will be providing insurance. Cougars as opposed to the municipality, providing the insurance and providing supervision, and paying their employees to supervise and so forth. Shrewsbury and Springfield Townships for years use to hire college kids and they would run the playground. And those college kids, would then form a summer playground program for the kids.And they would have basketball and basket weaving. It was like a summer camp. But they would have to hire people. They had to assume the responsibility to get insured and so forth. I think it would be, for all small municipalities, that may be an expensive venture.
Councilman Allar said you don’t get people to come in and run it and do something, at the same time, if you have to wait for it, its going to turn off people.
Solicitor Solymos said its like what the church did with their summer camp program, each municipality required that is open to everyone. That was a lot of activities for the citizens. Councilman Allar said its like what Barry and I were talking about up at this end, under the umbrella of rec association, we can produce other people to join up. We’re going to get some money from the borough. What I’m thinking of, how do we make it easier, because people just don’t turn out. Other than saying we are willing for you to have the field but you have to do everything. Mr. Strawser said its just not just baseball, perhaps you have a child that is handicapped, he might like to play baseball but he can’t. Mr. Grim said its not just baseball, football or whatever. Councilman Snyder said that’s why I said
the tone you brought to council changed from what you started saying with what you ended up with, which was, hey can I start up a team and use the Yoe name and what the problems are because I see the field isn’t being utilized. To can the borough support a rec department and rec program. And there two totally different
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animals. You would probably actually be easier to be able to start up something like a baseball team and call it the Yoe Athletic Association and you would not have near the problems that we would, trying to start up a rec committee. Us staring up a rec committee, then puts the municipality not only do we have to get the volunteers which we would probably get the volunteers to say here’s what we want to do. Then that committee is going to come back to this council and saying now we decided we want to put up a rec building that’s going to have computer games and pin pall machines and things like that. Where are we going to get the money for it? An association that has one particular thing, like the Dallastown Cougars, you say I’m going to concentrate on baseball, that’s what I’m going to do. The reason that Dallastown Cougars survives, as their kids, as your kids get out of it there is somebody else’s parents that are interested in taking over. Because you’ll find that those coaches, once their kids are out of it, they don’t stay around.
There just there because of their kids. That’s why its so much easier to have an association like that, than it is to say Yoe Borough, form a rec committee and give
us the money to do with what we come up with. Big difference. Solicitor Solymos said half the time what you’re offering is not what the people want. You can’ win for losing. I know we had some complaints in another municipality because we were offering such and such, and then it was said this didn’t work. That’s why I think its really good that the parents get involved about the needs and do it. Churches get involved. You have a kid with a handicap, there is special Olympics.
There are so many things available. Councilman Snyder said yeah, I think if you,
what you were originally saying in the beginning, I want to start a baseball team for Yoe. And come to council, I think the council said yeah, we don’t see a problem, probably enough kids if you take them from the Cougars. You’ve got to talk to someone from their organization to see what you need to do to start up a team. Then we’re hearing another gentleman say well I wasn’t thinking about baseball maybe I want football. If he wants to start up a football team, go ahead we offering the same thing. If you come to us with a suggestion and say, hey I want to start up, a bicycling/cross country team. Hey, if you have the people and you need the resources, you want the name and you want a place to meet and stuff. We can work with a group in that respect. I guess its a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive and a lot more problems for a municipality to say Yoe Borough, we just want you to do something because then like Pete was saying, with all the expense the liability and whatever we come up, not everybody is going want. Like we said, say you want to put in a skate park, like you mentioned about the physical challenged person, they may just want a place to hang out and play video games
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and play pin ball machines. Mr. Strawser said basically that’s what I’m talking about, allowing something for people to do. Just little things, to get people out of their houses. Aside the speeders, everyone needs something to do. Something we can do together. Solicitor Solymos said nothing can keep you from having a block party and come to the municipality and ask them to fence in the streets. Mr. Strawser said really. If I were going to say I wanted to do something like that and accept donations. How far in advance? Councilman Snyder said believe it or not, the old fashion days in Red Lion that are coming up here, they block off from High Street, the whole way in through square in Red Lion. That started out as a private
group of people that wanted to get together and bring the community together and most of that is mostly private donation. I think, in a matter of fact, the municipality
sends a donation to them to put that on, old fashioned days. I think the Historical Society is in charge of that. You find a need. I mean we have to look out for an entire municipality, so when we say we have limited funds and we want to start up a baseball team. We’re going to have so many people on this side of, saying why did you do that, why didn’t you start up a football team. You come to us and say we want to do this, and we’ll support it. Because you identified a need, like you said, you want to have a block party once a year, that could be Yoe Old Fashioned Days. Hey, I think everyone on the council, say yeah, that’s a good idea, we do what we have to, to direct traffic off. Talk about cutting down speeding, good old fashioned days over the months of June, July and August. But seriously, that’s. And you can get away with it a lot easier than we can as a municipality. Councilman Allar said you could use a block party as a kick off. And find how many people are interested and use it as a beginning point. People are going to come out and you can find out what they want. Councilman Myers said history wise, the fire company use to do it on Main Street. We use to shut down Main Street. We had enough of that then it moved to the park. Then unfortunately, it got to the point, no one would go. A couple years ago, it probably wouldn’t hurt for you to go and talk to a couple of the board members of the church down here. They tried to have a block party. We blocked off the street. I don’t know how it went.
Sometimes the people didn’t show up. I would talk definitely to the church, they may have ideas and help. To the board members. Councilman Snyder said it gives you some ideas and like you said, if you have something specific in mind, bring it back to council and we would definitely entertain it. Okay. Mr. Grim and Mr. Strawser said thank you. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming.
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Solicitor Solymos reported said I have several things I would like to cover by the way of an executive session. Maybe you want to call the executive session now.
Executive Session at 7:39PM
A motion was made by Councilman Allar to enter into executive session at 7:39PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Regular Meeting Reconvened at 8:29PM
Councilman Snyder brought the regular meeting back to order. Let the record reflect we discussed litigation. A motion was made by Councilman Allar for
our engineer to draw up appropriate paperwork showing proposed amount of land required for a proposed fore bay and get that to Pete for him to get an appraisal.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. See if you can get that him. Councilman Myers said did they have to go through this when they built Hoover Dam. Solicitor Solymos said in those days you didn’t have OSHA.
Mr. Dallmyer Solicitor Solymos said I only have one other thing, maybe two.
Mr. Dallmyer. He was in at the last month’s meeting. His
position was, the municipality was concerned that Mr.
Dallmyer, who had applied for a subdivision of his land. And
then gone ahead and sold a piece of his property without
getting subdivision approval. Mr. Dallmyer said no, no , no,
I own the rectangular piece of property, two of them. They
were deeded as separate tracts on my deed. I came to you folks,
because those two tracts, one was smaller than the other. And I
wanted to come and make the whole tract, 50/50. Two pieces,
50/50. I came to you, and it got too complicated. So I said, the
heck with it. All I sold, and I did sell, one of the tracts, exactly
as I had originally purchased it. So that was the question we had
` to do. Went over the municipality’s records. Our abstractor
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
then went down and reviewed the whole matter. And the
bottom line is, that Mr. Dallmyer stated it correctly. He sold
one of the tracts, that he had to buy. He did not sell a different
tract or part of one tract with another. He sold a part of the
tract. What may be confusing is he really, he went and acquired
some land, which was the old MA and PA right away that ran
adjacent to his land. What happens when you do a quick claim
like that and you grabbing an old road or old road bed, is that
each party, of each side, owns half way to the middle of it. He
acquired the whole thing. But each of his tracts owns the whole
things. There’s no subdivision or reverse subdivision involved.
Now what happened is, the map office drawings show this as
an almost perfect rectangle. Its not. And his engineering
drawings show it differently from what it shows at the map
office. Our abstractor went and did an adverse. That is looking
at the other property and seeing if the angle of this piece of
property, the two pieces that Mr. Dallmyer purchased would
fit within the angle of the next door neighbor. And they did.
So there were no games played by the engineer, it was just
that the map office had it wrong. Which of course, it isn’t
straight up and back, like this. So, Mr. Dallmyer did not do,
in my opinion, anything illegal inappropriate in these
circumstances. My recommendation is that Mr. Dallmyer has
the right to sell that piece of property. They are two distinct
tracts, they are separately billed on the tax map office. They
just happen to be on one deed. Had he gone and had a survey
made and redrew the whole thing up as one tract. And then
tried to sell it, that’s a no no. He has two different tracts, he
doesn’t need two deeds. Its done all the time, when people
acquire more than one tract that are adjacent to one another.
Because it saves on the cost of preparing two deeds, number
one and it saves on the cost of the court costs. Councilman
Myers asked which part did he sell? Solicitor Solymos said
he sold the bigger one. Councilman Snyder said the furtherest
one back. Solicitor Solymos said the one that has the garage on.
Young man came to see me and ask me why Mr. Dallmyer
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
wouldn’t sell him a garage, despite the fact he promised to do
so. I told him I couldn’t help. Councilman Snyder asked did
you send a letter to Mr. Dallmyer. Solicitor Solymos said I will
do that, because the municipality will not take any action.
That’s basically it.
Zoning Solicitor Solymos said the only other thing that Jason brought
Amendments up to me were the zoning amendments. We’re going to be
submitting them back to the county. They have them already.
They’ll have them for thirty days. Then we should advertise
for a public meeting in September. The meeting will be
September 2nd then we’ll advertise the ordinance then. That’s
all I had. Councilman Snyder asked should we move ahead,
because they’re not going to move on that tonight. Mr.
Reichard said right, its not on their agenda. Councilman
Snyder so we will? Solicitor Solymos asked you submitted
it and it will be thirty days. Mr. Reichard said September
2nd will be twenty nine days. We would have to advertise
it for the following day, would that matter. Councilman
Snyder said we’d have to advertise to meet then. I thought
it was we couldn’t adopt it until after thirty days we received
a copy. Solicitor Solymos said they have to have it thirty
days. Its almost impossible to have it done in thirty days.
Councilman Snyder said then we’ll do it in October.
We don’t have thirty days, we don’t have thirty days. We’ll
just advertise it for the October meeting. Solicitor Solymos
said you have to have a quorum. Councilman Snyder said
it would have to be adopted at a public hearing session which
would need to be advertised. Solicitor Solymos said you may
want to schedule it that everyone come in for a half an hour.
Councilman Snyder said instead of trying to get everyone
together, we might as well just adopt it in October. Councilman
Noll said the down side is it enforceable. The secretary said
the zoning officer will have the updated copy. Solicitor
Solymos said the updated copy hasn’t been advertised, what I’d
like to do advertise for September meeting then just adopt
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 14
in October. Get me a copy. Councilman Snyder said send me,
Sandy and Dan a copy also. Mr. Reichard said okay.
Todd Councilman Snyder said other items for the solicitor. This is
Bowser an FYI, overlapping a lot with solicitor and engineering. C.
S. Davidson through Jason sent a letter on July 9th to Todd
Bowser that we had denied it. On the eighteenth of the month,
we got a faxed request from Todd, saying he wanted an
extension. He had originally wanted on tonight’s agenda, I
thought I’d wait until tonight and that we already had denied it.
That may or may not be hanging out there as to what he’s
going to do. We already denied it. Mr. Reichard said he is
aware that he has to re file to the borough. Councilman Snyder
said that hasn’t been done yet. Mr. Reichard said I checked
with the York County Planning Commission, they have
official say, he hasn’t submitted to them. I don’t know what’s
going on. Councilman Snyder said I don’t know what’s going
on either. Last I talked to Dan, he hasn’t even filed for any
zoning hearing yet. Not sure whats going on there, I just wanted
to inform of that. Councilman Snyder asked has he paid his bill
yet? The secretary said no, and I’ve just gotten another one for
$335.00. He hasn’t sent in the $557.00 on yet, so the next time
I send a letter its going to be to the point. I’m going to tell him
we need payment within fifteen days. Councilman Snyder said
and that may be an issue for Pete.
Wilson/51 W. Councilman Snyder said for your opinion, you probably saw a
Penna. Ave. copy of this bill that was sent out to Mr. Wilson for 51 W.
Pennsylvania Avenue, for us going on and mowing his
property. He sent us a letter back, that he didn’t own the
property at that time, it was already sheriffed. And therefore
he doesn’t own that bill. So I guess the question becomes,
is there someway that we can, we don’t know who the actual
owner is at this point. Solicitor Solymos said maybe a bank.
Councilman Allar said or a mortgage company. Councilman
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 15
Snyder said we don’t know who bought it. Councilman
Allar asked was the expense done prior to the sale. Councilman
Snyder said the expense was done after the sale. But at the
same point it becomes an issue of the new owner didn’t
receive notice of violation, they have to receive notice before
we go in and mow. Therefore Pete the question is, because
notice wasn’t given the proper owner, its only a $120.00 with
what we’re looking at to try to find the new owner, just walk
away from this? Other than having it researched. Mayor
Sanford said it would cost more to research it than its worth.
Councilman Snyder said that’s my gut feeling. Solicitor
Solymos said I wouldn’t do it. You’ve got a problem resolved,
the heck with it. If it was a thousand dollars then I’d do
Ogden Letter/ Councilman Snyder said the other issue I had for Solicitor,
Cottrell there are two other issues then. Solicitor Solymos said this
is the Ogden letter with Cottrell and you heard me, I dictated
a letter in your presence, hopefully you will get some response.
Councilman Snyder said so, a letter was sent out to him to
reponse to that. Solicitor Solymos said it hasn’t been sent out
its been dictated. Councilman Snyder said dictated. Solicitor
Solymos said it will go out soon. Councilman Snyder said the
last I heard from Dan Shaw was, his comments to him as well,
was hey this is the way it is done, if you have a problem with
this contact.And he gave me the name of the person from
York County Planning, and that’s the last we have on that.
Penna. Ave. Councilman Allar said you need to find the owner of that
property on that? Councilman Snyder asked about
Pennsylvania? Councilman Myers said the foundation
is broken out, the wall is ready to fall. Councilman Noll
asked is that something Connie can tell us? Mrs. Crull
said I don’t have any word. Mr. Shearer said the issue
is that I understand it is that Leon Wilson still shows
up as the owner of the property. Councilman Snyder
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 16
said the issue is it was brought for sheriff’s sale and not
bought? Solicitor Solymos said that’s a possibility.
Mr. Shearer said Mr. Wilson has stated to Dan Shaw,
he is not allowed on that property. He has been told
that he can’t legally stepped foot on the property. That’s
why they are saying. Councilman Snyder asked a property
that is up for sheriff sale and not sold at sheriff, who owns
it? Solicitor Solymos said its still the owner, or person that
has it, if no one purchased it. He’s still the legal owner. I can
find out. Councilman Snyder said at this point, Dan Shaw did,
and he is still showing up as the legal owner. At this point,
before we get you involved, that’s your gut feeling, we’ll
continue to go back and mow, make not of it. Try to send out
notice and like Pete said until we get up to $1000.00 in fees
here, maintain it for that. We are going to see who ends up.
Councilman Myers asked can’t we just get a hold of the
sheriff’s office? Solicitor Solymos said that I can find, I
can make a phone call and find who owns and whether its
been sheriffed. Councilman Myers said at least find that
out. Solicitor Solymos said I can do that. I’ll have our
abstractor find that out. Councilman Snyder said that’s
what I’m saying by the time you have your abstractor for
an $120.00 bill. Councilman Myers said do you need
an abstractor or can you just call the sheriff’s office? Mr.
Shearer said Dan’s already talked to the sheriff’s office.
Councilman Myers said oh he did. Solicitor Solymos said
I can ask my abstractor he can plug into the county computer.
Mr. Shearer said it keeps coming back to Leon Wilson and
Leon Wilson says it isn’t mine. Solicitor Solymos said all my
abstractor does is get on the computer. Councilman Snyder said
Leon is scheduled for sheriff’s sale on the 18th and he’s going
by that. Solicitor Solymos said we are going to find out what
happened to it since. Councilman Snyder said mine was just
the legal question. Councilman Allar said anyone going through
a bankruptcy, the bank probably owns it and maybe the
paperwork hasn’t caught up yet. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 17
find out if it’s a bank.
Penn Waste Councilman Snyder said the last item I had, we did finally
receive notice back from Penn Waste. You got a copy of that?
Basically they credited back our account for the $15,840.00,
they ceased the commingling, they now contacted cause there
was problems with York County Solid Waste that they didn’t
know what was going on so there was still only one tipping fee
being sent to us, that has now been rectified. York County Solid
Waste has sent us a bill for the amounts. They did verify the
truck was kept separately so there was no commingling going
on from 4/15. The dumpster of course as of that day, was
changed over and the current reflects that all changes have
been paid and now up to date. With that being said, they are
now in compliance with what we wanted out of original
documents to them. A motion was made by Councilman
Myers for our solicitor to start drafting the amendment to
our garbage contract, for us to now to pick up the tipping
fees for that second truck, I guess for them to pick up the
tipping fees and to bill back Yoe Borough $480.00 a month.
And then of course we would prorate from the beginning
of the year, we are trying to show them that we are not taking
them over, we don’t want to pay them anymore that was
basically agreed to. Now we are going to get what we wanted
from the beginning. The dates would be from the beginning of
the new contract up to the point where we started paying for
that one truck. The amendment should be reviewed by council
at the next month’s meeting. The motion was seconded by
Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
motion carried. The secretary said it will be November 1 until
April 15th. Councilman Snyder said correct it will be $480.00
a month for the first five months then $240.00 for the half. The
secretary said once they agree with the amendment, all this
other stuff does stop, the bill show $480.00 a month plus their
regular monthly amount. Councilman Crull asked $480.00 is
that every month? Councilman Snyder said yes. Councilman
Crull said in a period over a year that’s over $5000.00 and
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 18
if we let them commingle it, we saved that. Councilman Snyder
said no, we are actually paying the actual fee to the York
County Solid Waste right now, whatever that is. It could be.
Councilman Crull asked what is this additional $480.00 charge
for? Councilman Snyder for them to be able to commingle the
truck and just charge us a flat two ton per week fee. Then we
won’t see the other amount coming from York County Solid
Waste. Right now York County Solid Waste from the
beginning of the contract should have been charging us for two
trucks, that’s the way it should have been. But they’re just now
starting picking it up. The secretary said how much is the total?
I gave you a copy. Its in the bill file. Councilman Snyder asked
do you know what I mean Ron? They actually pick up say
1 ¾ ton, and York County Solid Waste will bill us for that.
Next week they may pick up 2 ½ ton, York County Solid
Waste will charge us for that. What they want to do, is say,
we’re just going to assume we picked up two ton every week,
from Yoe and charge you back $480.00, they’ll pay the actual
tipping fee, that way they get to actually commingle for that
truck. Solicitor Solymos said I’ll need to redraft that and we’ll
discuss that. Councilman Snyder said you can start working on
that and I’ll let Ed know that’s its being worked on and will
ready for next month’s meeting. Solicitor Solymos said thank
him for his help.
Per Capita Mrs. Crull said on per capita taxes sent out, I’m getting some
Taxes back that the people actually lived there, but they’re putting
on there unknown and sending it back to post office. Solicitor
Solymos said the people are there and the people themselves
are putting unknown. Mrs. Crull said I’ve checked with the
landlord and I’ve been told these people live there. Now I
don’t know maybe they have a post office box. No big deal,
but I’ve had a couple of them like that. Solicitor Solymos
asked Mrs. Crull to call him tomorrow. Mrs. Crull said
I’m not promising but I’ll try. Solicitor Solymos said
Solicitor’s Report (cont.) Page 19
Solicitor Solymos said John you are going to be in touch with
? me on the thing you bounced on me. Mayor Sanford said
Thursday is better for you? Solicitor Solymos said actually
Yoe Drive Mr. Reichard said item number two, construction projects, Yoe
Paving Drive paving. The Yoe Drive paving is on hold indefinitely.
Basically the price for paving has gone through the roof and
the township is cutting back on their road work for the year.
It basically doubled since they first bid this project and the
cost, so they can’t do it. They’re doing some of their larger
jobs. Some of the smaller are going to be cut back. It may
happen but based on conversation with Scott Depoe, its not
at his point. Councilman Snyder asked I thought there were
contracts on that? Mr. Reichard said it was bid but I don’t
know if they awarded the contract. I know they had bid
numbers on it and they sent it back out because of some
prevailing wage rate issues that needed to be approved.
The index keeps going up all the time. Councilman Noll
said it started out $210.00 per ton now its up to $890.00 as
of the first of the year. Mr. Reichard said they are estimating
$1000.00 by the September I think. I heard rumors that
the state basically shut down majority of their paving
projects. Councilman Snyder said I wonder if that’s why
Main Street wasn’t done because that was scheduled for
this year. Mr. Shearer said they haven’t awarded the
contract yet. Councilman Allar said before you leave that,
your update about liquid fuels. Mr. Reichard said I actually
had a meeting with Gerry Wagner about another project and
I brought up our issue for transferring funds. He didn’t say
we couldn’t transfer funds but he definitely said we can’t
transfer funds if the funds are going to be used for a road
that is not adopted by the borough regardless of who actually
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
uses it. It has to be for a project, it has to be for the job that
we transfer funds. Councilman Allar said for Yoe Drive,
when it passes a certain point, its township on both sides.
Mr. Reichard said he was familiar with the situation, the issue.
Councilman Allar said if you transfer funds and designate
Yoe Drive, whether it is legal to transfer from municipality
to another? Councilman Snyder said that was question and
at that point. We can transfer money for Queen Street, doesn’t
have to say its Yoe Drive. The question is can we transfer
liquid fuels money. Their point is that it has to be used on
roads that are acceptable for liquid fuels funds. That’s up to
them to make sure where its spent. The question is can
we transfer liquid fuels money to another municipality?
The answer is yes. Mr. Reichard said I wouldn’t assume that
I’ll have to ask him again. This is how it came out and I left
it like that. Councilman Snyder said which is interesting and
I understand what you said, I would have hard time of agreeing
with that and understanding the logic of that because we can
use liquid fuels monies for our own roads that aren’t on a
liquid fuels list. We can use that for an alley if we wanted to,
so why they. Mr. Shearer said its an adopted alley. Councilman
Snyder said but that is an adopted road. Councilman Myers
said no it isn’t. Councilman Snyder said yes it is, that is an
adopted road. York Township adopted thirty five foot, they
adopted a thirty five foot right of way. The secretary said all I
will say is, I want it in writing because when we get audited we
don’t get in trouble. Mr. Reichard said right. Mr. Shearer said if
Gerry Wagner comes out to review that project, after that
asphalt is down, if he sees asphalt past that point where they
receive liquid fuels monies for, its on that portion that is not
adopted, then that is going to be the issue. That’s the key unless
that is adopted. We can use general funds money for it. We can
not use state liquid fuels money unless that portion is adopted,
that section, that has to be adopted. Councilman Allar said can
we simply transfer funds to another municipality? Yoe Drive
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 21
parts of it belong to the township. Councilman Snyder said as
long as they put say $8000.00 of general fund into that project.
Then we transfer $8000.00 of liquid fuels monies to the Yoe
Drive project. That’s still. Can you see what we did, yeah but
technically that’s up to York Township that the $8000.00 from
their general fund pays for that section that was in Yoe
Borough. Mr. Reichard said another thing you can do is pay
some from general fund. Liquid fuels. Councilman Snyder
said I’m talking about, however York Township wants to
pay for the entire project. Councilman Allar said its up
to York Township. Mr. Reichard said yeah, I’m assuming
they’re using liquid fuels money. Councilman Snyder said
maybe not I don’t know. Councilman Allar said all we’re
trying to do is make amends with the township. Councilman
Snyder said we’re just trying to find a way to transfer money.
Mr. Reichard said I’ll have to call him again, I don’t have
that answer. Councilman Allar said again the only reason
I’m saying that’s possible is, the county has done it for
Yoe Borough. Mr. Reichard said and I’m not sure how that
works. Councilman Allar said you’ll have to talk to Jeff on
that. Councilman Snyder said that would be no different than,
I’m using this an example, if York Township was going to
do dredging down at the dam. And we said thank you for
that for in kind services we’ll transfer $20,000.00 out of
liquid fuels money for road maintenance in York Township.
It’s a give and take. Now we had no road work done but
they’re giving one service,we’re providing them with
another service. Their money would have to be used for
roads but that’s. Mr. Reichard said so would the money
that you would be giving, liquid fuels would have to be
for liquid fuels only projects. Councilman Allar said I
could see Jason, you have to go them. I think in this
case you can. Councilman Snyder said it depends on
how you show it. The secretary said the bookkeeping is
going to be up to us, because I have to issue the check.
I’ve got to have documentation. Documentation.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
The auditor will come and ask for the invoice. I’m going
to have to have documentation. I’m going to have an
approved project number. And it has to be approved
through Gerry Wagner. Then I can go. Councilman
Allar said the basic question is whether its legal to
transfer funds. If it’s a no but the county transferring
money to Yoe Borough. If it is yes. The secretary said
I just want to make sure you don’t get in trouble. Mr.
Reichard said the county has a process but I don’t know
what it is, what the county does ahead of time. We’ll
have to look at it. Mr. Reichard said I’ll call him and ask
him its no big deal. I rephrase it. The secretary said we
should have something signed by him if he authorizes
it. Mr. Reichard said we offered $4000.00 total, Scott
didn’t saying anything. $4000.00 or $8000.00 liquid
fuels. Councilman Snyder said at that point York Township
just didn’t say yah or nay because they are going to scrap
the project. At this point is there any real rush for him to,
he can do it on the side again when he sees Gerry because
York Township scrapped the project. Any answer he gets is for our own common knowledge for in the future.Its not like
you have to go out of your way to make that phone call and
put it on Yoe Borough time. Because there’s no project there.
Mr. Reichard said I’ll make the call on my behalf how’s that.
Dam Mr. Reichard said okay the dam dredging project. We have
Dredging been on DEP for some time here trying to get an answer to the
Project status of the grant application and where it lies. This is the most
recent response that we received. Joseph Kapaso, he’s in charge
of waterways engineering program, apparently works with our
main contact, the watershed manager, Rick Devore. And
basically they are not happy with the application. This guy, I
put in the copy of his email. To quote it, he feels that it is
essentially the borough’s fault that we’re in the situation that
we’re in because we neglected to maintain the basin since it
was originally constructed, ump teen years ago. He took it
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
almost personally, that the mitigated wet land area was
damaged as a result of not maintaining it. More/less that
was his reasoning, his main focus. Yoe Borough did not
impact soon enough and with the sediment, your approved
wet lands were destroyed, what are you going to do about it?
The grant monies of the state would not be an accepted use for
the response of the project. Which is pretty significant. He did
state at the end of the paragraph, if you amended the application
and basically eliminated the dredging portion of the project we
may be able to do alternative measures there what would be
eligible, i. e. restore mitigated wetland area or establish wet
lands elsewhere in the basin, that is his final position as well.
We couldn’t possibly do that until we fix the dredging problem.
So if its near the mitigated wet land area, then dredge it out,
build new wet lands. We didn’t respond to this, we got it Friday
afternoon or Monday. I contacted Jake Romig of ECCO
Construction, he made up the whole system, and we haven’t
had a chance to mete since he was out of town for a couple of
days. Once we have a chance to talk about this and figure out
our game plan, we are going to pursue it. But I wanted to think
about it, and come up with a good idea on how we are going
to go about this. Obviously its $55,000.00, in the grant
number, we’re banking on doing this project so, its unfortunate.
Councilman Allar said a couple of quick ideas. Because they
turned down the one you submitted, I thought it was a distinct
possibility as referenced even though we are working with the
county, I’m not terribly surprised at this. However, I’m not sure
they understand what this means. It says allowing the same
scenario to occur by granting funds in and around the basin,
and reestablish mitigation areas is not a good use of state
funds. We are not because of legal drawings, saying this
would occur. They don’t seem to address that, they missed
it or what occurred. So what is one point. The other point
is I think we are going for $50,000.00 for the Growing Greener,
I think the $50,000.00 was devoted for the fore bay. And the
money I have from Windsor Township, Red Lion and
Dallastown, and what have you, and Yoe, that itself could
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
handle the dredging. But like I said, if grouped together,
then we could argue that the permitting and the forebay
would be part of the $50,000.00. Mr. Reichard said that would
be the first argument, well I will eliminate the dredging in the
cost of the mitigating the wetlands and restoring the area. I
don’t know if they’re going to go for that. It’s a $123,000.00
project, I think putting emphasis on the fact that you’re trying
to build a fore bay system to allow us to maintain the structure.
I would agree that they’re not picking up on that. Councilman
Allar said a lot of things happened that are beyond our control,
the way the upstream development went. Mr. Reichard said I
think those basins serve a purpose, have a function in terms of
the overall watershed, upstream of the basin and what has
happened to the channels and downstream, you look at it, the
banks are vegetated, vegetation on those banks, the channel,
you’re not getting a significant under cut. Councilman Allar
said also don’t forget, you’ve been sending in a yearly
inspection report. Now, they’re just figuring it out? They’ve
been approving the report. Mr. Reichard said I think we have
some ammunition, we’ve just have to convince the guy.
Councilman Snyder said I would agree with everything that’s
said, in that paragraph there, but then when it said, allowing
the same scenario to occur by granting funds to clean out the
basin. We are not allowing the same scenario to occur if our
engineer’s did their job right, we’re hoping that this prevents
that from happening to occur again. So I mean I agree, it was
totally overlooked. Councilman Allar said our fall back would
be whether or not, we can still put this together and as far as
being concerned, that its two different projects, in reality it
still goes out as one contract, we could have two different
funding sources. And the buying of the land perhaps and
the forebay or whatever would be part of the $50,000.00 and
the rest of it would be for the dredging. Councilman Snyder
said we could tweak the numbers to get to $50,000.00 and I
don’t think the other municipalities are going to care that we
use their money to do the actual dredging. Councilman Allar
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
said right, they’re not going to care. Councilman Snyder said
only problem there is, making sure, its permitted. Permitting
is two separate issues, to make sure. Councilman Allar said
if we do the fore bay outside, it has to be permitted anyway.
I was hoping we could work with the township because the
the township also has to get a permit. It would be nice to have
it under one permit. Councilman Snyder said the only thing that
would screw us up would be having two distinct projects and having them bid out separately. Councilman Allar said I don’t
see why we can’t have one project being funded by two,three,
four funding sources, look at what we’re doing at the park. Mr. Reichard said you have to say what money is going for what.
Councilman Snyder said just tell them that their money’s not
going for dredging. Mr. Reichard said normally there are paper
trails. Councilman Snyder said I think his initial gut reaction
was, no you’re asking the state for the money to maintain what
you should have maintained all along. Mr. Reichard said this is
our effort to maintain it, this is the first we’ve come across the
situation that we’re actually talking about, we’ve been talking it
for two, three years now. I think we have a couple arguments
to make here. Councilman Allar said this has been made
known, we’re not trying to hide it. Mr. Reichard said I’ll call
CDBG 2009- Mr. Reichard said the 2009-2011 CDBG grant applications
2011 last month, we decided to amend it and resubmit it. Preliminary
information is that we may actually maybe getting the money.
The first packet that I received was missing the one sheet. I did
not think we had any chance but just yesterday afternoon, the
individual that gave me the copy of the information, said oops,
I missed a copy and sure enough there was Yoe Borough and
it was listed for $100,000.00. This is preliminary, the projects
on this list have not been ratified at this point. So, none of them
have. We are not listed on the short list, we are legitimately l
listed at this point. So I’m not 100% sure if they are going to
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
make a decision tonight or not. But I will rely on it until I get
their word. Councilman Allar asked do you have a copy of that?
Councilman Snyder asked the one that you had sent me, said it
had page 1 of 6, and then that was crossed out and then it said
1 of 3, and I’m looking at three pages and we’re not on it. Mr.
Reichard asked does I have 2 of 3 on there? Councilman Snyder
said it has one list of proposed public facilities, one sheet for
proposed planning activities and another sheet. That’s three
papers. Mr. Reichard said it should be. Councilman Snyder said
I’m not going to complain or anything. Mr. Reichard said the
sheet you are missing says 2 of 3, hold on, 2 of 3 and 3 of 3 is
the last page. I don’t have any idea. They copied it and was
excited about it. I have it here. It says on the spreadsheet, Yoe
Borough is the third one from the top and says $100,000.00
earmarked for 2009. This is not official I mean I probably
shouldn’t have told you guys about it. Councilman Snyder said
you sent this out. Mr. Reichard said there is an advisory
committee that. Councilman Snyder said they’re suppose to be
making the decision by September, last I heard. Mr. Reichard
said August. There is an advisory committee that meets and
they sort through these projects. Councilman Snyder said
I’m glad we got it. Mr. Reichard said you don’t have it. There’s
an advisory committee that reviews all the projects, criteria to
go through and they evaluate them and they put a list together
and recommend that to the county. That’s where we are at
at this point. Councilman Noll said so far we have a
$200,000.00 project. Councilman Snyder said $75,000 from
one source, $25,000.00 from an other and a $5,000.00
contribution from Knisley. No that has to go to matching.
Councilman Snyder said interestingly, I would have to agree
with this one. I wondered why the one page didn’t have
a total at the bottom, this one does have totals on the bottom.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
Grant Mr. Reichard said the other one is just a real quick update. Jake
App Romig of ECO Construction put together, we put together a
grant application for $55,000.00 for miscellaneous for the
borough that hasn’t been approved. We received
correspondence asking questions about the estimates, things
of that nature. I’m surprised they are showing interest in the
job. I talked to Jake, he did throw a little money in there for
a fore bay. We’ll see what happens.
PEMA Mr. Reichard said John handing me some information from the
Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency. Doesn’t give
me a lot of detail, but basically what they’re saying, is they are
grant application for development submission in funding for
all non disaster mitigation efforts. Financial assistance to
counties, municipalities and responsible organizations etc.
Now it doesn’t go into detail of what that means by non
disaster mitigation grants. I would read into that as, you
don’t have a disaster, but you have an area you want to
mitigate and relates. Which is us. There is a website here,
with some information here about the grant of what is
included and what is not. That would another source
where we can try to perhaps get money for the basin.
Councilman Snyder said I was even thinking for our
bridges. I think we have these basins pretty well. Mr.
Reichard said maybe not, we may be looking at a deficit
of $50,000.00 depending what happens here so. We only
have so much money for ourselves, that’s. At a minimum,
they resume November 21st, we meet in September, which
gives us two and a half months. Why don’ t I put together
detail of what this covers, or if somebody else wants to
do the research. Councilman Snyder said you’d be the one
that would have to fill it out. I don’t have a problem with
you going in. Mr. Reichard said I’ll just put in a short list
and print out what I find, see what we’re going to do.
Councilman Snyder said so basically, we still have the
gabions that were never finished, we still have two
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
bridges that are need of being looked at. And now even
the possibility of purchasing of land for a fore bay.
We have those three things come to mind, right off the
top of my head. Purchasing of land, two bridges and the
gabion extension. Councilman Allar said there is a lot
of time involved there. Councilman Snyder said a lot of
that stuff we should be able to pull from, from previous
records. We had estimates for the Mason Alley, we had
money for the county liquid fuels for that. A lot of these
projects you should be able, of course the land purchase
you wouldn’t. You could throw in a $50,000.00 figure and
say for land purchase for a fore bay. If that man gets
$50,000.00 for that. You know what I’m saying. You don’t know what’s available but that’s just things at the top of
my head. I think it would be engineering dollars, everyone
be aware of that, its engineering dollars being spent. See
how much money they have to spend. See what projects
they want to fund. Mr. Reichard said if we can get some.
Councilman Allar asked when would be receiving that?
Mr. Reichard said I don’t know. Mayor Sanford said it
may be on the web page. Councilman Snyder said if
this is something that won’t be awarded for two years.
Councilman Allar said or even a year. Mr. Reichard said
it’s a year, they are saying if you don’t make it by November,
you won’t get funding in 2010. So it’s a two year cycle. But
we obviously, with our current situation can put in for that.
Councilman Snyder said we can say this is a high priority.
Like the gabions and two bridges. Maybe they would fund
one over the other. Councilman Noll asked do they have
list of all the state grants that are available to the municipality.
Mr. Reichard said we have a list, that’s updated every
two years. Councilman Allar said Mike Waugh’s office,
gives a listing every two years. They’re out there. Call
Mike Waugh’s office and PSAB information is out there.
Councilman Noll said once you start on a general grant,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
you might as well send it to five or six. Councilman Snyder
said that’s what just said, like the bridges, we know what
the figures were from like, what was that, two years ago,
need some updated numbers. Councilman Allar said I’ll
call Mike Waugh’s office and see if I can get info. Mr.
Reichard asked isn’t there a website that has all that information
on? Take a look at that. Councilman Noll said seems like
there are a lot out there, we could go for a couple big ones,
seems like we’re missing out. Councilman Snyder said see
what you can bring back to next month’s meeting.
Growing Councilman Allar asked can you refresh what is being
Greener covered? Mr. Reichard said channel improvements
downstream. Councilman Allar asked gabions? Mr. Reichard
said not gabions, channel improvements. Won’t actually
be gabions. Councilman Allar said its going to put us in a
better position, with the stream bank on that and with the
undermining. Mr. Reichard said we picked six or seven
inlets to dig out and replace with some inlets that hold
water, that need to be replaced anyhow. Some design time,
and potential fore bay. They’re looking at it. Its around
$55,000.00. Councilman Allar said Jake knows the players.
53 N. Church Mr. Shearer reported, the reinspection was done at 53 N.
St./Apt. 3 Church Street on apartment 3. That’s the one. They have
completed their work and we got a copy the other day,
Code Administrators, they are done with their inspection.
Use and occupancy was issued for the apartment. So they
have come in compliance with what we sent them a violation
letter for that unit. I have future inspections scheduled for the
rest of the units. I think we will be able to work closely with
the land owners there. They made quite a big improvement in
the last eight months. It does look a lot better.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 30
Chapter 212 Mr. Shearer said I have given Sam a piece of paper, with the
printout of Chapter 212, which is the state manual curb and
sign. And it does give an option for Philadelphia Street, instead
of the stop signs. We could, from what I’m reading there, we
could actually request a traffic study to limit right turns off of
Main Street unto Philadelphia Street, which would in effect,
by a single sign, do what we want to do with the stop sign,
and that is try to curtail traffic going up Philadelphia and
Elm Street. One of the warrants, number six, if it is a residential
street that is used as a cut through, that is warrant to be able
to put up the right turn sign. As long as there is an alternate
route. The alternate route would be the main road. So I think.
Councilman Snyder said there’s another alternate route,
go up to Third. So they barely have to stop. Mr. Shearer
said the main alternate route, the cut through is the state
road. Councilman Snyder said so what you’re suggesting here
is not so much, a one way street but a no right turn off of
Main Street. So it would be still a two way street, so people
coming down could still make a left to go up the hill. Mr.
Shearer said and you could cross from one side of Philadelphia
to the other side of Philadelphia. You could turn coming
down S. Main Street and make a left turn to go up Philadelphia.
The only thing that would be prohibited would be the right
turn to go up the hill, which is the main flow of traffic that
we currently have and what we’re looking to try to get off
of Philadelphia. We would need a traffic study but unlike the
stop signs study, that we keep getting hammered for because
we can’t use them to control traffic and speed. Which we
all know this would fall under because of the way it reads.
A turn restriction warrant, it says a straight through or turning
movement maybe restricted if the movement can be made at
an alternate location and if one or more the following
conditions are present. Number six is: a study shows that the
turning movement is frequently made by a through traffic onto
a residential street to avoid downstream congestion. And since
we tried to say it’s a collector street and they said its not a
Maintenance Report (cont.) Page 31
collector street, it’s a residential street. Councilman Allar asked
how many people will this affect? Councilman Crull said
everybody in those apartments up there. There going to have
to go out Broad Street instead of coming up there to turn to
go back out to Denniston’s apartments. That are two people
sitting back here, you’re going to have forty or fifty people
sitting back here, talk about that extra traffic. And everyone
that goes there on Elm Street is going to have to up another
street to get back down, to get back down. That’s the only
problem with that, that I see. Mayor Sanford said Dana, do
you see a problem there with Third and Elm, pulling out there,
increasing the intersection flow. The site is not that good there.
We have the speed coming down from the top of the hill. I hear
a lot of squeals there both leaving and coming down. Mr.
Shearer said and truthfully, no matter what you do, there’s
going to opposite reaction to it. Keep them somewhere, they’re
going to go somewhere else. Councilman Snyder said let’s face
it, my thinking is, were not going to impede the residents as
much as we’re going to impeded the people coming through
town, which is what we’re trying to correct. Or statistics wise,
of the 17, 000 cars going up Main Street, probably at least
8,000 are turning up Philly and going up Elm. There’s only
how many residents in Yoe Borough that actually use Elm that
would go up Philly that would be restricted. So those three
hundred people of the ones that would go up Third and cut
back. Councilman Noll said the other thing you can do, is
on Third, with forces, with the site triangle up there with
the no parking sign. Mayor Sanford said we did do that a
couple years ago and moved it back from that intersection,
500 feet. Remember that Barry? Its still not the greatest.
Councilman Snyder asked is it any worse than Third Street
and Main? I mean you still got the top of the hill, you still
got Third Street. Mayor Sanford said Third and Main is
not a problem. Philly and Main, well not since they cut that
bush down. Third and Main is fine. Councilman Snyder
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 32
asked then what’s the difference in the site distance at Third
and Elm? Mayor Sanford said you have parking on the one
side. Councilman Allar said yes in theory they should stay on
Main however as far as taking traffic out of town, you’re still
moving, it works. How do I know it works? Because people
keep using it. They wouldn’t be going up there if they didn’t feel there was quicker way to leave town. It may not be what
we want, but it works. Councilman Howett said my point
is putting all the traffic on our streets where they could
be on Main Street, where the state takes care of it. We’re
going to keep putting more and more on it, cause everyone
is going to use it. Reason why they use it is because up
in Dallastown they have to stop after they make the right
hand turn, where going up our street, they can just fly
up over the hill into Dallastown and don’t have to stop.
That one stop sign is what’s causing the whole problem.
Mayor Sanford asked can we get Dallastown to up as stop
sign at Broad and Elm, Pleasant? Councilman Snyder
said I never understood why they stopped the Main Street
traffic and allowed the other traffic turning left unto
Lombard, why they allowed that? They allow right turn
that you don’t have to stop but if you are making a left
you have to stop. Why aren’t they stopping cause its
a thoroughfare, I never understood that. I don’t know,I just
feel you shouldn’t have Main Street traffic coming through
a residential section that we don’t have sidewalks on, there
are apartments back there. Our roads are meant to handle,
lets face it we all know, Ron is the master of that, when it
comes time to do road work, we never do it to state specs.
Lets do to what we can afford, otherwise we $150,000.00
project and we get away with a $20,000.00 project, because
we aren’t making these roads to specs which is why as
soon as we start having truck traffic on Maple Street, its
start breaking up. Councilman Noll said if that traffic
study would occur, and that sign would be put up, is it
enforceable? Mr. Shearer said you’d have to have an ordinance
for it, to make it enforceable. Councilman Myers asked
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 33
what if you could get Dallastown to put a stop sign at the
top of the hill. That’s a hazard when you drive over the
hill. Councilman Howett said with those cars parked there
at that house at the corner, when they park that van there,
you can’t see, if you have to inch out inch out and then.
Councilman Myers said you can’t see over. Councilman
Snyder said with us stopping traffic from going that way,
it will make that intersection a lot safer, no doubt about
it. For the sake of discussion here, we really don’t know,
I see the main thing we need a traffic study, so its going
to go back to Don Bubb. I think we need to have Dana make
contact with him and say hey look you were suppose to get
` back to us in April about a four/three way stop. They know the
issue that we have and what we’re trying to prevent and say
no we’re about ready to submit a request for a traffic study
for a no right turn off of Main. We thought about maybe a one
way street but we didn’t like that so much. You want to go
meet us before we go ahead, and we request this traffic
study. See if we can get him down here off the cuff and get
traffic engineer down here and say what is best. I mean we can
go through requesting and they can say no, I don’t like that
either. And we still don’t know what they’re thinking. We
only have two issues there. Tom is coming from the point of
if we do that, are we going to be holding up traffic in the
town. Councilman Allar said and cars would be backing up,
we’re still trying to put ten pounds in a five pound bag. It
won’ square up. Councilman Howett said even though they
turn, they have to stop. Councilman Allar said but they’ll
be sitting in Yoe Borough. Councilman Howett said I’d
rather have them sitting up at the other intersection in
Dallastown. I betcha they won’t go that way. Councilman
Snyder said they may by pass Yoe altogether then. We said
that before. We had that same discussion with this light
down here. If you put a light in, it’ll only attract more people
to the intersection because now they can make it through.
If you let the intersection the way it was and people can’t
get through to Red Lion. They try to find an alternative
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 34
route around Yoe. Councilman Allar said everything is a trade
off. Councilman Snyder said it’s a trade off. Councilman Noll
said invariably do the study and see if signs even allow.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, instead of
requesting the study, go back and have Dana and make the
question to Don, who said he was going to touch bases in
April. Because he wanted to explain and he wanted to hear
our side as far as to what our concerns were up there at
intersection. This was just going to try avoid the intersection
without getting a three way stop. Again we’re the ones trying
to come up with alternatives. That’s what he’s suppose to
get paid for. And see if we can’t get him down here and
then if not, next month we’ll put in a request for a traffic
study. Councilman Noll said we’ve got to know if we can
do it or not. Councilman Allar said someone came down
to do the study. Councilman Snyder said I don’t think he
was, he says he knows the intersection. Those were his
comments to me when I called him up on it. What’s changed
in the last twelve years since you wanted to stop speeding
the last time? Councilman Snyder said I said where do you
keep getting off? I mean we had that whole conversation,
I don’t think he ever was done, he just doesn’t agree with
a three way stop until we can do something different. Just
like now we’re coming up with some other ideas, its like
especially if we tell him, these a couple ideas that we’ve
had and now he knows that we’re not just looking at a
three way stop but we have other ideas. We want his
input, cause he’s the one that ultimately has to sign off
on this. A motion was made by Councilman Noll that Dana check out the opportunity for the signage and
see he gets with the traffic engineer and get the information.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in
favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 35
LTAP Mr. Shearer said the other thing along those lines. On the LTAP
Classes website, for what’s on the list for classes. I found the
engineering/traffic study class that I been trying to find local.
There’s one actually scheduled this fall at the end of
October over in Montgomery County, just north of
Philadelphia, Hatfield Township. The day before that class,
they’re going to have another class, they’re having the one
for traffic common applications. I want to see if calling
county planning if they have any idea if there is going to be
any of those scheduled and call them in LTAP and see if there
going to be in the Cumberland area at PSATS headquarters.
I’m thinking I might be able to go over there and maybe spend
the night. I’d like to get these classes. I don’t know for sure,
I can’t find anything closer to get these classes in a reasonable
time. Councilman Allar asked is there a cost for this? Mr.
Shearer said just for the hotel room. The classes are free.
They always look for people to host. Every now and then,
they have one over at York Township and Penn Township.
There’s got to be an interest, so other people hold those
classes in your area. A motion was made by Councilman
Crull to have Dana attend, if so overnight, conference for
LTAP classes. The motion was seconded by Councilman
Allar. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Weeds Councilman Allar asked what do we have on the weeds on
On Main Street? Mr. Shearer said that is on the report. We weed
Main St. wacked. Councilman Allar said previously we said something
about perhaps spraying. Councilman Myers said yeah, John
and I actually talked, what I need is our insurance company’s
phone number and contact for the liability insurance and see
how much its going to be. You have to have insurance,
you have to make sure you’re covered. I’ve got to make
sure. Councilman Noll said you still have to have a rider.
Councilman Myers said the state won’t even give you the
certificate or the license without insurance. Springettsbury
Township contracts it all out. Most municipalities don’t
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 36
have it. I’m for it. I just want to know what the costs are
going to be. Part of getting your business license is that you
have to have insurance. When he becomes an applicator,
or becomes a technician and works off of John or I’s
license, we still have to coverage. Mayor Sanford said
we have insurance, we just have to show proof of it.
Councilman Myers said I just want to see to make sure
because I remember at Springettsbury, they were going
to do that. They decided not to because there was an
insurance increase. Councilman Noll said that’s why
we don’t do it, we hire everything out. Councilman
Snyder said and the worse that happens we continue to
use ARD. I mean once a month, it becomes part of the
routine scheduling, run them up and down. Councilman
Allar asked how do they do, do they work well? Mr.
Shearer said it depends on the crew, we got it all done
last time because we had a decent crew. Most the
people on that crew were competent enough to stay
out of traffic. And truthfully, it scares me. Because
when you are putting that many people out there and
you have a moving work zone. Unless we bring in flagger
force or one of those outfits, to control traffic, its
dangerous. When you’re trying to keep them, huddled
close enough together, that they aren’t in the way of
the cars. Far enough apart, that they aren’t hitting each
other with the weed eaters. We have four this last time
We were running two weed eaters, one guy running the
blower and the other guy cleaning stuff up big pieces,
throwing it into the recycle bin throwing that in the back
of the truck cleaning that stuff out. We had a half of a
load from the weeds. The supervisor and me, play
traffic cops. Its nasty, it scares me. Councilman Howett
said cause everybody goes 25MPH through town right?
Mr. Shearer said right. Councilman Snyder said one
thing you may want to find out Barry, since Mr. Shearer
isn’t our employee, he’s on insurance through the ambulance
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 37
club. Councilman Myers said if he goes up there and sprays,
we don’t have green weeds, we now have brown weeds.
Mayor Sanford said I think we need to get him to spray
the curb cracks. Councilman Snyder said who knows what
they charge the ambulance it may be, less liability there.
Technically he’s an employee of them. Councilman Noll
said couldn’t we go back to the property owner, shouldn’t they be taking care of their property, why aren’t we doing
that? Cite through the zoning officer. Councilman Myers said
if we make him an applicator, its going to cost a couple bucks.
Once we get the business license, we can use our applicator,
and make him a technician, that’s ten bucks a year. There’s
no training. Councilman Allar asked there’s no training with
that. Councilman Myers said no, we just have to train him.
I just have to check, that would be considered right of way.
We don’t have right of way. One of us have to take the
test. Councilman Snyder said I’m just saying this just keeps
getting brought up year after year, Dana keeps having the
ARD out there, still weed whacking. We’re coming up now
on the end of the weed season here, within another month.
Another year has gone by that, Dana’s still out there weed
whacking and that seems to be the cheapest alternative, that
seems to be what ends up working. Its probably a little late.
Now would be the time if we’re going to get him trained
and certified, get all this stuff done and get it prepared for
next year. I fully agree with the sentiments that Seth said,
I don’t have a problem sending everyone a letter and saying
hey you are suppose to take care of this, its on your property.
You send them one letter, is it an expense. Yes its an expense,
but I think once its done, I think maybe it would take care of
itself and you don’t have to send those letters. All I’m saying
we need to have some direction because what ends up is
by June and July, we keep going back and saying Dana, get
ARD out there to weed whack. Councilman Allar said
with weed whacking you are talking every two weeks.
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 38
Councilman Snyder said at least once a month. Councilman
Allar said we’re not going to get 100% enforcement, this
property will do it, this one won’t. It will be like a
checkerboard. Councilman Noll said at that point, you do
it and bill it. Councilman Snyder said you have to send
them notice first. Councilman Noll said that’s what I mean
you send them notice. I think one of our biggest problems,
is we don’t capture, we do things we shouldn’t do and we
pay for it. Councilman Allar said the answer is, we spray,
and that solves our problem. It will aggressively cut down
on time. Mayor Sanford said we’ll still have to have that
business license. Councilman Myers said that’s thirty five
dollars a year I think. Councilman Snyder said the point is
we don’t have any concrete information as far as if he
can be a technician. Councilman Myers said I know he
can be a technician, except for this ambulance club thing.
Even without that you know, we have our application
license. We just make sure its in the right category,
otherwise we have to take the test. Lots of the time,
when we take those classes I go through and John,
you go out to your core and your category, you’ve got
to have, depends on what, if that’s my category for a
three year period in that core. You get this whole
schedule, you go through it someway and you take
this certain class. Category 3, 6, 8. As long as it falls
in like that,we’ll be okay. The problem that I see for
anyone of us is, we have to make sure we have it
correct. Councilman Snyder said you also have to
think long term too when you aren’t on council. If
he’s still around, he’d still have to be able to do it.
Councilman Myers said it does get expensive, you’ve
got to least for about three or a few years. Still time
away from work. Its eight hours away from work.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what it comes down
too, eight hours away from work and one day he
had ARD out there and took care of it. That’s what
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 39
always boils down too. Councilman Noll said you’ve got
to take classes to do this. Councilman Snyder said I’m
not saying, maintenance. Get back to us and see what
you get back with.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Snyder said I guess there’s no written report.
Cars behind Mayor Sanford said did he send anyone a notice about the
the store store over there? They’ve been there all summer.
53 N. Church Councilman Snyder said it says 53 N. Church Street for
St. trailer. Mayor Sanford said that’s done.
Boat/Trailer Councilman Snyder said a boat and trailer on W. Third.
Mayor Sanford said that’s still there. Mayor Sanford said
this was the guy that was working on the store and had
his trailer parked on the street a lot, on Church Street.
Councilman Snyder said the only thing listed for Church
was 53 W. Church for the trailer. Councilman Myers said
it would have to be Pennsylvania Avenue too because
he’s going to have some fun with that one. That property
line is weird.
39 E. Penna. Mr. Shearer asked are you talking about the jeep. Councilman
Ave. Myers said yeah. Mr. Shearer said he sent them a letter, he
should have sent a letter to 39 E. Penna. Ave. Councilman
Snyder said that’s on here, 39-49 E. Penna. Ave. Mr. Shearer
said Mr. Kale, that died, the one Dick Baade had all the
problems with, its his kids. He’s the same one that owns the
two cars sitting over on the lot, that Ron wanted to claim,
he owns all of them. Mr. Shearer said not to park them there,
because of mowing, and he didn’t listen. I don’t know what
we can do because we don’t own the property. Councilman
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 40
Myers said put no parking signs up there. Mr. Shearer said
those two vehicles behind there, he’s the last one gumming
up the works in that corner up there. Because we were
having problems with, the front part of that lot is owned
by Charles Powers who owns 35 or 37 E. Penna. Avenue,
the first house, okay. 53 Church Street has a right of way
to park there. But they were the one that had all the trash
and weeds up against the building. Going back to Dick,
he was the one sending them, he sent a letter to Powers
because he actually owned the property. We finally got
Church Street and Powers is doing his part. The person
at 39 E. Penna. Avenue still doesn’t want to play ball.
Both of those vehicles to the best of my knowledge,
go with 39 E. Penna. Avenue. The van and jeep correct.
Mayor Sanford said yes.
Illegal Councilman Noll asked what ever happened to the illegal
Driveway driveway because last Saturday I saw a load of stone put
on the driveway. Councilman Snyder said I don’t know
what, how that was resolved. Mayor Sanford said the
one that went back off the alley to the front. Mr. Shearer
said no one really owns the property. Councilman Snyder
said I think that’s what he had them pay a permit fee to
put it in. Mayor Sanford said its in the railroad right of way.
Councilman Snyder said that becomes a problem in a few
years when she doe the minutes, it’ll say Snouffer residence
and you will say who is that and where is that. Mr. Shearer
said Jacelyn Snouffer, 7-9 E. Penna. Avenue. Mayor
Sanford said the other driveway on Philadelphia, that’s
not being used. Its still there.
Schaefer Councilman Snyder said if there is no other questions the
Auto only other thing I had, that I was going to bring up to him
is I’ve noticed this Schaefer’s Auto and Paint right at the
bottom here, 66 W. George. There is two wrecked vehicles
in there and I know they are an auto body shop but the one
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 41
has weeds growing up through the wheel well. I think it
becomes an issue of unenclosed storage versus their repair
shop and they’re working on a vehicle. I mean have weeds
growing up through the car, I think that’s been there a little
too long for that. I was going to call him on that. Is there
anything else for the zoning officer? Councilman Allar
End of Water said tell him to go to the end of Water Street, there is two
junk vehicles. One with weeds growing up through.
Councilman Snyder asked its not on the lot with the
garage? Councilman Allar said its probably on the lot
with the garage. Once again, he’s going to have to make
a determination if its within the borough.
? Councilman Myers asked if they have a car and all they
do is put a tarp over it, does that make it legal? Councilman
Snyder said there not suppose to, not in a commercial zone.
Has to be enclosed. Residential they’re suppose to be
enclosed but there is some lead way given for like
recreational vehicles, like boats. That was never decided
one way or another, what’s enclosed for recreation.
However, with, and I know this because I just read about
all this with the Cottrell issue, what was considered a junk
car. And at that time, the criteria was if its uninspected
and unlicensed or unregistered, then its considered a
Junk Vehicle junk vehicle. But if its sitting there, like across the street,
where its not sitting there for repair, because otherwise
it would have a valid registration and inspection on it.
Councilman Myers said because I noticed that a couple
of the vehicles we use to go after, now just have a
tarp over them. Mayor Sanford asked was it inspected?
Councilman Myers said I don’t know. Councilman
Snyder said understand that’s what we have to work with,
we are, she may bring it up under the secretary’s report,
codifiers are in and probably within a month or two,
there going to be down here giving us our preliminary.
That’s when we need to have our list of changes for
the book ready for them. So this folder, is here, again.
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 42
Ordinances that you want to change, now is the time to
change it. Just bring it up at council. Like I did with housing
thing, basically four things that need to change, that we
want to tighten up. That may be one of them, what considered
a junk vehicle and put in there the definition of a junk
vehicle and tarps. The secretary said he’ll update you on
all federal and state changes and be able to answer questions
or comments. Councilman Snyder said put it down on a piece
of paper instead of having a big committee on it. Just bring it
up at a council meeting, I’ve put in the codification thing we
need to have something on junk vehicles cause there is no
definition and tarps are not acceptable. If there is a consensus
of council that says yeah I agree with that, let it in, let them
figure out the wording for it. We all know that’s what we
want to do. Councilman Myers said if I want to take an
ordinance and doing some of that, some that I want to see
changed, make a copy of it, and say this is what I want to
see. Councilman Snyder said they word it. Mayor Sanford
said and make all the changes at one time. The secretary said
we advertise it in one big advertisement then we don’t have
all those little ordinances advertised. Councilman Snyder
said like we had to advertise that change midnight to eleven
PM, we just add it in and its done. Councilman Allar said
like with swimming pools above ground. Councilman Snyder
said there’s been discussion for years. Mayor Sanford said
for fencing and such. The secretary said the only thing I have
a copy of, is in there right now. Mayor Sanford said soft
sided was considered, you need a fence on those. Councilman
Snyder said do we need a fence around these temporary
pools, these blow up pools. All those things, I’m bringing
that up to council’s attention within the next two months,
they’ve already been down and they’re coming back because
they have some more paperwork to do. Thirty to sixty days
from that we are going to have that preliminary. So we need
to have all that. That’s all I have for him, I can mentioned
that at the end of Water Street. Mayor Sanford said have
Zoning Officer’s Report(cont.) Page 43
weeds on Main Street, have him check. Mrs. Crull said
what about that property up there with all those boxes
and stuff on their porch. I thought we had an ordinance
about that. Councilman Snyder said he went after him
for that. Dan’s interpretation that he’s had problems
with is, what is considered junk, one man’s junk. Without
a definition of junk. Councilman Allar asked is Dan
adding to our list? Councilman Snyder said he’s getting
a list compiled, and he did put this one in already, the
division of build on lots. That’s already on his. That’s
what I wouldn’t consider appropriate porch furniture,
that couch. The secretary asked isn’t that a health
and sanitation problem, rodents, feces from rodents,
there’s garbage bags there. Councilman Snyder said
I keep thinking they are actually garbage bags. I told
him that and he said I thought it was garbage and I
was going to get them for trash on the front porch.
I think he wants to have something to act on. Some
people should not own homes. After that storm,
one fell against my house, they have twelve foot
high weeds. I guess they don’t realize it’s a weed.
Its over touching my house. I’ve been cutting anything
that’s over on my side. If you would see the side of
their house. 187 and 111 and Water Street, making
note for Dan. Mayor Sanford said the brick house
catty corner from the fire house is getting a little
ratty, have him look at it a little bit too. Councilman
Snyder said beside Strobeck’s Service.
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
Storm Mayor Sanford said last Thursday afternoon we had a storm go
through. We had water over the spillways. Trying to do what
we were suppose to do because we weren’t sure if it was
going to come out over the banks. Between Boundary and
Emergency Management Coordinator’s Report
the fire house, it was very very close. Dana was up watching
it. I got called down at the station, I did notify York
County EMA per the regulations. It did reside. We watched
the second storm that was right on the first ones trail but
that was toward the south. We were worried for a little bit.
Councilman Allar asked if it was upstream from the fire
company? Mayor Sanford said upstream, between Boundary
and the back of Yoe Service.
County Councilman Snyder said we did received a copy of a letter
Of York just on the fourth, from the County Of York, talking about
NIMS NIMS compliance for the county. Some of the criteria are
Compliance for 2008 that was forwarded to the assistant director for
EMA. He feels we will be in pretty good shape for that but
he will be looking into that. Mayor Sanford said I’ll look
over that what they’re telling us is, last year, 2006, they
asked for a resolution to support and adopt NIMS. In 2008,
it’s a required action but we already have that in place.
Councilman Snyder said a copy must be submitted. Mayor
Sanford said I’ll fax another copy over.
Emergency Councilman Myers said what’s the status of our emergency
Plan plan update, I noticed that the township’s are doing updates.
Mayor Sanford asked the emergency plan for the borough?
Councilman Myers said yes. Mayor Sanford said we follow
the county’s plan, we fall back on the county’s plan. And I
asked for a copy of that and I’m still waiting. Cause I want
one for the school district also. Councilman Myer said
its on the internet isn’t it. Mayor Sanford said I couldn’t
Mayor and Police Report
York Area Regional Police reported the following for May 2008: 26 calls, no accidents of any kind, 58 traffic citations, summary citations 5, misdemeanor
arrests 2, and 1 juvenile arrest. Service hours 62.75 and administrative hours
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 45
Broad Mayor Sanford said I’ll give them a call and redirect some of
Street our time towards Broad Street.
Formal Mayor Sanford said the other action we should take is adopt a
Night formal trick or treat night, for all municipalities covered by
Trick or York Regional, have it on the same night, October 31, 2008,
Treat from 6-8PM. What they do is put extra cars on the street.
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to announce that
trick or treat night for Friday October 31 between 6 and 8PM.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor.
Correspondence Mayor Sanford reported correspondence that I got at the house
with the EMA grant, that was handled. In the circulatory file is
a booklet from York County Community Foundation, which
lists a number of grants, mostly towards students. Had a
pipeline brochure that I gave Dana for training. I can’t go.
And I got some information from Sheetz. How many gallons
of gas do we buy in a month? More than two hundred. Mr.
Shearer said no. They offer a discount program but you have
to buy two hundred or more. You get a free card for it.
Sheetz is a lot closer.
Free Yard The secretary wanted to make sure when the free yard sale is
Sale Dates going to be, is it August 30, 31 and September 1st? Councilman
Snyder said that’s on the thirtieth and thirty first. The secretary
said I didn’t know how you wanted to do it, if you wanted
it Saturday, Sunday and Monday? I think Dallastown’s is
Saturday. We normally have it over Labor Day. Councilman
Snyder said we normally do it. Mayor Sanford asked on
the holiday? Councilman Snyder asked do we want to do
it on the Thursday, Friday and Saturday, or just have it
that weekend. Councilman Noll said Thursday, Friday
and Saturday. The secretary said the ordinance says for
the permit for a yard sale is for two days. I know
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 46
we aren’t charging for a permit. Councilman Noll said
Friday and Saturday,August 29 and 30th.
Codify The secretary said the codifiers are going to be here
on August 20th from 9AM until 3PM.
Festival of The secretary said Bruce asked me to let you know and
Lights you received a copy, the Festival of Lights program from
the County Parks has been posted on the website. Councilman
Snyder said and that of course is the borough’s week is
designated November 30th through December 6th. Present
a coupon which, its on Yoe Borough’s website. Any borough
resident with proof of residency, with the coupon you get
a free admission. The secretary also posted it in the window.
SEK Councilman Snyder said a letter was sent out to Smith Elliott
and Kearns notifying them that we don’t want them as
Resolution Councilman Snyder said everyone got a copy of the resolution
that was sent out.
Second Councilman Snyder said Yoe Ambulance did submit their
Quarterly second quarter report showing response times and service times
and what was dispatched with what ambulances. That is one
Annual Councilman Snyder said we also received the annual report
Report from the Yoe Fire Company which is now on record. We
Yoe Fire Co. can now pay them. The secretary said the balance will be
paid in December.
PEL Councilman Snyder said the Pennsylvania Economy League
is holding, I guess, any government official which includes
councilpersons, municipal secretaries/managers, financial
directors and stuff, through DCED a program to address
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 47
financial management and fiscal difficulties in local
governments. Basically the essence of this EIP is to
provide professional assistance to local governments in
developing a multi year financial plan. They are willing
to have a meeting with PEL professionals with the
municipality. Councilman Allar said do we know how
many foreclosures are in the borough? Councilman Snyder
said I haven’t heard, I know the list in the paper keeps
getting longer for sheriff’s sales. How much it affects
Yoe Borough, how many Yoe Borough residents, I don’t
know. I’m just waiting. Mrs. Crull said I had three people
on the last list. Councilman Allar said a couple of months
ago I thought there were more. Councilman Snyder said
that was already on the list. Councilman Noll said its
slowing down now. Councilman Snyder said once they’re
sheriffed, well I would assume it was sheriffed. Sixteen
in town. Mrs. Crull said 219 W. Broad Street, the Tweedy
property, has been up for sheriff’s sale two or three
times. Councilman Snyder said and it doesn’t sell.
Mrs. Crull said and it doesn’t sell, I was here the other
day and Sandy gotten a call, about making it into apartments.
Mayor Sanford asked which one? Mrs. Crull said the
Tweedy property. Councilman Snyder said according
to Connie, with this housing crisis fiasco, we’re not
the only ones that are going to be impacted by that.
That’s why I brought it to council attention, the PEL
staff is available to meet with municipal officials to
discuss the EIP program and see if they can come up
with some help for fiscal management and analysis
to help us with budget matters and plan. Mrs. Crull
said they want to get rid of tax collectors. Councilman
Snyder said I honestly don’t know but if you have
a professional willing to met with us. I don’t know.
As far as a fiscal plan, our only fiscal plan is, we
have money coming in and you have money going
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 48
out and we hope that the one outweighs the other
without having to raise taxes. Councilman Noll
said do we have to go to a seminar or do we
have to make contact with them? Councilman
Snyder said no its not a seminar, they’re willing
to meet with you and discuss with you what they
are able to provide us. This is the only thing that
they sent us. Councilman Allar asked is this
private organization, a marketing thing? Mayor
Sanford said PEL is a public thing. Councilman
Snyder said its an EIP, early intervention program.
Managing funded through DCED. Worth a
phone call to find out and get more information.
Councilman Allar said set up a meeting? Mayor
Sanford said it depends on the time and date,
see when they are available. Councilman Snyder
said I don’t know anything about, it doesn’t
hurt to see what they have available.
June 30,2008 Councilman Snyder said the secretary-treasurer submitted
Balance second quarter ending June 30,2008 balance sheet and
Sheets and all bank account statements. Any questions, try to have
Statements them ready to ask.
YCPC Councilman Snyder announced the first round of regional
Forums public forums from York County Planning Commission,
interested in the York County economic plan can plan to
attend one of five regional economic plan forums.
Heritage Rail Councilman Snyder announced Heritage Rail Trail is now
Trail designating a national recreation trail on July 16, 2008.
And Heritage Rail Trail/County Parks joins national
rail trail network on July 30, 2008. So there just informing
us that the rail trail/county parks earns two prestigious
national recognitions on those dates. Councilman Allar
said they’re also asking for money. Councilman Snyder
Secretary’s Report(cont.) Page 49
said we haven’t checked that out with EIP yet. We have
our own rail trail that we’re trying to get going here.
There was no unfinished business.
Contact Councilman Crull asked is Rick Levan still the man that takes
PENN DOT of, he’s been replaced by this Jerry Wagner. Councilman
Snyder said yes.
Fireworks Councilman Noll said we are talking about all the ordinances.
I haven’t read through completely but do we have anything,
or do we want to think of a fire ban within the borough or
fireworks ban within the borough. Councilman Snyder said
we have a burn ban. Councilman Noll asked you can’t
burn at all? Councilman Snyder said it has to be within
daylight, it has to be within a receptacle, so many feet from
a building. Councilman Noll said I thought about it, I thought
it would improve the image of the town, with buildings
being so tight here. Councilman Snyder said that’s in
affect. If you want to look over it and see if there’s some
suggestions you want to make to it. Councilman Noll
said I was just wondering if giving up burning all
together. Councilman Myers said some people near
private alleys, there’s been times people have these
little things, with a couple pieces of wood. Councilman
Noll said the chimneras. Councilman Myers said yeah.
Probably work something like that because people that
want to do something, other than that, I was going to
say no burning at all. Councilman Noll said we’re just
a tightly built municipality, with sparks coming. I’ve
seen that with a couple of my neighbors. I’ll look at
that. What about fireworks, do we? Councilman Myers
New Business(cont.) Page 50
said they are illegal except for the stuff you buy at like
Turkey Hill. Councilman Noll said I know the City of
York has a complete ban of fireworks, I don’t know if
that is anything council would consider. Councilman Myers
said like you say, if we have it, of course I don’t know if
you get caught and catch something on fire. Mayor Sanford
said if injury or property damage, then we probably would.
Councilman Crull said up in our home in Perry County,
the neighbors shot bottle rockets off when we weren’t
home, and when we got up the next time, we have a pine
tree about forty feet in the air, just burned, there was nothing
left except a couple branches on it. Of course they never
offer anything, and I wasn’t going to go after them for
anything either. It can destroy somebody’s property.
Councilman Snyder said I don’t think anyone has a problem
with banning it, like John said its probably the practically of
it getting it enforced. For most part for July 4th, its probably
the only time. Mayor Sanford said you could slow some of
it down. Councilman Snyder said unless they’re in the town,
at the time they’re going off. Councilman Noll said maybe
I just noticed it a little bit more this year, small kids and
stuff flying everywhere around the houses. Councilman
Snyder said I know when we instituted that burn ban,
there were one or two older people up there on High
Street that actually have the room to burn, we’re
complaining that which was why we made it had to
be in receptacles and stuff like that. They wanted to still
be able to burn and they had the space to burn. Which
is why we tried to come to the middle of the road there.
If it had to be in town, but then you had to have. Councilman
Myers said but what happens, you may have the room now
DEP has all about, you can’t burn construction material and
everything else and that’s what they were burning. The other
day George’s neighbor across the street, he was burning .
I had a few phone calls and I went up there and that’s what
New Business (cont.) Page 51
he was doing burning construction materials. Councilman
Snyder said I know the people at the corner there at
Newton. I don’t know what they put in their barrel
sometimes and to be totally honest the gentleman that
lives at the corner, I don’t know what his name is,
there at Philadelphia. His burn barrel is like two
feet away from the garage and he hasn’t used it.
He hadn’t used it the whole time he was there and
this one time it was lit, I had the phone in my hand,
I thought the barn was on fire. Here he lit the thing
up. We can just make suggestions. I don’t have a problem.
Councilman Noll asked if I can find something on fireworks
I can suggest that. Councilman Snyder said I don’t have
problem with it, again I think. Its sort of like our weed
thing, if we don’t enforce it. Personally I like fireworks.
I’d like the ones that go boom not the sparkley things.
The sparkley things can burn down someone’s house.
Then again I’m the patriot, I do like my fireworks. I
don’t set them off. It does say in the constitution, you’re suppose to celebrate the fourth of July.
Payment Of Bills
Councilman Snyder said we have besides the list additional:
Columbia Gas : $49.74, Columbia Gas $37.38, Verizon:
$71.12, Verizon: $33.95. Any questions on the bills?
A motion was made by Councilman Howett to pay the
bills with the additional four. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder
said motion carried.
Councilman Crull made a motion to adjourn the meeting at
10:45PM. The motion was seconded by Councilman Snyder.
All in favor.