Wednesday, October 14, 2009

Yoe Borough Minutes - September 1, 2009




The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on September 1, 2009 at the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 North Maple Street, Yoe, PA. The meeting was called

to order at 7:02PM by Council President Sam Snyder followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

Council Members in Attendance:

Sam Snyder

Barry Myers(arriving at 7:09PM)

Tom Allar

David Naylor

Bruce Manns

Seth Noll

Others in attendance:

Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer

Dana Shearer, Maintenance

Steve Malesker, Engineer

Pete Solymos, Solicitor

Joiann Galiano, York County Planning Commission


Councilman Snyder asked if everyone had the opportunity to look over the minutes from the

prior meeting. Any additions or corrections? A motion to accept the meeting minutes of August

4, 2009 was made by Councilman Manns. The motion was seconded by Councilman Allar.

All in favor. Councilman Snyder said minutes accepted.


Councilman Snyder asked any visitors? Let the record reflect no visitors. Mr. Malesker

asked if someone does show up for the park meeting can we have them sign in. For our

record. Councilman Snyder said yes.

Councilman Snyder said well we have the flood plain ordinance at 7:30 and then another

public hearing at 7:45 so I guess Pete if you want to. We’re jumping around a little bit here


Solicitor’s Report

Chronister Solicitor Solymos said on the fifteenth of September in the morning is

Matter the date and time for the Chronister matter. We should be getting formal

notice from the chairman of board of Board of Abritrators about that

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 2

shortly, I confirmed that today. I confirmed that with everyone

here whose involved. And that’s good for everyone here. So that’s

what it is. I’m going to have a preliminary meeting with Tom

as the schedule permits on next Wednesday which is the ninth.

As a preparatory prior to that.

Appeal Solicitor Solymos said the appeal to the decision of the zoning

Zoning hearing board. We have the appearance entered on behalf of

Hearing the Shertzers. That entry of appearance came in on Friday. The

Board secretary said the borough received it on Monday. I made

Sam aware of it too. Solicitor Solymos said I wasn’t going to

make copies of the record until we had true party for the appeal.

Otherwise the municipality and the zoning hearing board wasn’t

going to fight it, so. So we’ll be filing the record this week. And

I have fifteen days to do my brief. And then they have fifteen days

to respond. And then five to decide when we want it. We have

the option to ask for oral arguments, I think its money that’s not

well spent for municipality, we’ll do it on the briefs alone. The

clerk is going to read it, the clerk is going to research and send

a memo to the judge and say what its going to say on that particular

matter. Councilman Noll said I heard that it a domestic judge of the

branch of the? Solicitor Solymos said its appointed alright, once

both parties have filed the briefs, it is listed for one judge and

a judge is appointed to get that. A judge that is not on the domestic

side, we don’t have a domestic court. Every year a certain group

of judges are assigned for domestic court, juvenile court, then the

rest of the judges will take these appointments. You can get

anybody, you can get Judge Chronister who will write an opinion,

within six weeks, you can get other judges that will remain nameless,

it could take a year to do it. So. That’s basically it. I think you have

a real good one. Councilman Noll said you wait for the opinion is

written. Solicitor Solymos said if they take a chance and they lose,

that’s that. They can petition the court. I’ve never seen anyone try

to get a petition to let them go forward and be out those fines and

that stuff. That’s basically it.

Ordinances Solicitor Solymos said we’ve got the ordinance ready to go. I apologize

for the delay, it has been advertised and its ready to go. The advertisement

has been given to Sandy. The secretary said and after its adopted and I

have to send notice to the newspaper. Solicitor Solymos said, send notice

that it has been adopted.

Bid Solicitor Solymos said the last thing is you have a bid opening for a quarter

of eight for the park project. Mr. Malesker said its not a bid opening its just

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 3

Public a public meeting. Solicitor Solymos said I mean a public hearing on

Hearing that and you are going to award a bid. I was contacted about the bid

with regard to what was the low bid. And which was appropriate for

a low bid. The low bidder had the right to bid. The concern was the

second bidder did not include something which it should have, the

other six or seven did include. He was second without that bid,

for the lighting in the park. Everyone else had a bid in for the lighting

at the park. So I think we have legitimate low bidder with appropriate

bond. The law doesn’t require you to give it to the low bidder, it

requires you to give it to the lowest responsible bidder. But I understand

from talking to Steve, that these guys seem to be responsible. And

really that’s all I’ve got.

Uncertified Councilman Noll asked did we get anything together on the ordinance on?

Buildings Solicitor Solymos said we did not. And that’s because I have to get

together with you, and I did not. I apologize to you. When do we have

to adopt that? Councilman Noll said it’s not time sensitive. Solicitor

Solymos said I will give you a call tomorrow and try to set something


Riedel Councilman Manns asked the family that was asked about the right of

way up at the dams. Solicitor Solymos said we have the right of way.

It has been filed. The secretary said the check is outstanding. Solicitor

Solymos said if you are talking about the dollar, the check is still

outstanding. We have a written valid agreement. Councilman Snyder

said do you need to follow up and file that. Solicitor Solymos said

it was filed. Councilman Snyder said I guess that is what it was.

So he doesn’t want to cash the check he doesn’t have to. Solicitor

Solymos said we tendered it, that’s up to him what he wants to do

with it. Maybe he wants to frame it, first check he ever got for land.

Councilman Snyder said I do have a couple things then, anyone else

have anything for the solicitor?

YCSWA Councilman Snyder said just a few things that we can clarify here

Contact before we get into the ordinance. Pete I guess was looked at or

For asked to look at a contract with York County Solid Waste for

Recycling recycling bins. And your? Solicitor Solymos said I had not problem.

Bins As long as the numbers. Councilman Snyder asked do we want

to make a motion to follow through with that? There was some

concern, questions that Sandy had, had. She was looking at the

25 gallon bin, she was going to check into if Penn Waste would

be able to deliver them. The secretary said no, York County Solid

Waste was going to be checking to see if they would deliver them.

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 4

Councilman Snyder said then the question would be, what did

we want on them, did we want to go with the 25 gallon container

and of course how many. There was some question that was

brought up two years ago, or last year, whenever we had our

garbage contract. When the quotes came in, as steep as what

they did, I made a comment that with running, it just doesn’t

make sense to me. Without getting into all the details of our garbage

contract. But it doesn’t make sense if all we’re paying Penn Waste

for is collection, that’s it. Because we’re paying our own tipping fee.

If they’re running two trucks per week and that’s the cost of

collection, you would think that paying $50,000.00 a year, $25,000.00

is the cost of a recycling truck and $25,000.00 is the cost of a normal

garbage truck. And we’ll forget about the extra truck for the totes for

the apartments. We’re keeping this simple here. But for the most part

we’re running two trucks in town. So I’m stupid, tell me why we can’t

save money if we decided not to get with recycling, eliminating one

truck in town therefore shouldn’t we be able to reduce our cost of

garbage by 50%. Give or take 10 to 20%, if you add another truck.

And low and behold, Penn Waste said no your cost won’t go down,

it will actually go up. Okay, so we got into a contest there. I still

think there is something wrong with those computations, I won’t

get into any specifics. I just think there is something wrong with those

computations. But in this instance. Were we thinking, before we go and

say yeah lets go and buy 600 recycling bins, was there a chance that

council was going look at with doing away with recycling next year.

At which point we may only want to go with a 100 just so we have

a stockpile of recycling bins. Councilman Noll said are we mandated

to have a recycling program, I thought there was a state law. Councilman

Snyder said there is, over 5,000 or more population. We’re voluntary.

So theoretically, it just, just on the face of it, it made sense that, hey

if our costs are based on solely pick up we should be able to reduce

costs if we eliminate one of the trucks coming through towns. He

didn’t like that. I do know that they make some money off of recyclables.

However, what they give us on our tip sheet, we’re only getting

credit for 79 tons per year. The secretary said 67 for 2008. Its going

down. Councilman Snyder said our normal, based off of our tipping fee

because that’s how you can break this down so easily. We pay our own

tipping fee. Based on our tipping fee, and that’s been constant for the last

ten twelve years, we’re collecting anywhere from 660 to 680 ton per

year. So that would be about a 12% recycling rate. Which would think

that would be higher than that. But again I would think, even if they’re

making money on those recyclables, and only getting 79 ton, they’re

not making that much money. I think there is some wiggle room with

this contract. Again we don’t have to be trying to figure that out tonight,

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 5

all we have to do is decide how many bins we want. As you see if

you are only ordering 100, the 25 gallon containers is $16.50 and goes

down considerably and its $10.80 if you are going to order 500.

Now according to this contract that Pete looked over, the county will

pick up 75% of this cost and we’re on the hook for 25%. Its just

a matter if we want to go with just a 100 until. Councilman Noll

asked are we out of recycling bins? The secretary said yes. Councilman

Snyder said that’s what prompted this. The secretary said we’re

completely out, we have buckets but not bins. The people that come

in here are not happy with those buckets. Councilman Naylor asked

how many people are coming in for them? The secretary said they’ve

been coming in about two a week lately. Mr. Shearer said the bins

are wiped out, they are starting to break up. Councilman Snyder said

maybe we just do fifty or one hundred bins, for the $16.50, get us

100 now until we determine what we’re going to do next year or.

Councilman Noll said is that just a one time deal with that, say next

year we say we want more, will they still match 75%? Councilman

Allar said they use it as an incentive? Councilman Naylor asked

when does our garbage contract end? Councilman Snyder said our

garbage contract ends next year. The secretary said October 31, 2010.

New begins November 1, 2010. Councilman Naylor said has anyone

looked into calling other contractors at this point? Councilman Snyder

said come January we’re going to be putting the word out. Councilman

Myers said last time we only had one bid. Councilman Snyder said

that was it and our cost went up. And he used the excuse of the cost

of gas, and the price of fuel and everything. Right now I would think

our costs should come down, and if you are using that as your excuse,

the cost of fuel has come down, 100% since it was $4.00 a gallon, its

$2.50 a gallon now. Councilman Naylor said if we buy 250 of them

now and we go with a new contractor next year do we have return

the unused recycle bins or are they ours? Councilman Snyder said

they would be ours. The only thing, do we want to spend the money

with the knowledge that since we’re paying, if we go with someone

else, will we seriously be thinking of doing away with recycling.

Because based on looking on the surface, we should be able to

save 50%, should. Now. Councilman Manns said what were the

reasons they gave? Councilman Snyder said that no, the recycling

accounts for only 6 to 7% of pick because there is such a mark up

on the recyclables that he sells. The secretary said but the bottom

fell out, of a lot of them too. Councilman Snyder said I think back

then I got rid of my aluminum cans for $.88 a pound, not I can

get $.31 last time I took them in. Councilman Noll asked are

we required to hand out bins? Councilman Snyder said not

required to, just is, if we are going to replace them for everybody.

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 6

We should even if Penn Waste doesn’t want to do it for us, we

can get Dana with ARD or somebody to drop off recycling bins.

Delivering isn’t a problem. My only thing is do we want to

commit, how many thousand dollars? The secretary said what

he is saying, let the people supply their own recycling bins,

we don’t have to supply them do we? Councilman Snyder said

correct. Which was what we were doing, we delivered the first

ones and after that. The secretary said we were charging 25% of

cost of purchase from back in 1994. Councilman Noll said I

guess my only comment is, if we get a 100 and sell them for

whatever we have to pay for them? The secretary said right.

Councilman Snyder said right now a bin is 100 is $16.50 a bin,

that’s what the people would have to pay. The secretary said

no, they would pay $4.00 and some odd cents. Councilman

Noll said 25%. If we’re going to get them and charge that, then

I don’t have a problem. The secretary said then they’ll use them

for the regular garbage, I’ve seen that in Dallastown. Councilman

Snyder asked so are we looking at the hundred here? I see heads

nod. It’s a consensus of council to get a hundred, keep it the

same color, same logo. The secretary said they only have two

colors, blue and green. I already told her we’re going to go with

green. A copy of the recycling logo is in the folder with the contract.

That says Yoe Borough Recycles. Make sure she has that. Councilman

Noll said we should look that we are not excluded from any programs

or monies, if we decide that, for the next contract. I don’t know who

will research that. The secretary said we file a report every year with

DEP to get money. Last year we got about $500.00 back. That’s the

only report I know that we get money from. Councilman Noll said

so that would be the only thing, if we get rid of the recycling program.

The secretary said you wouldn’t get that money. Councilman Noll asked

if there were any grants. The secretary said I don’t know about that.

Councilman Snyder said we’re going to have to look into it more. I know

when I contacted York County Solid Waste, I told them this idea off

the top of my head. I said believe me, I don’t want to be the one to

start, a backward slide on recycling, but I said tell me what I’m missing,

if all we’re doing is paying for pickup. And you have two trucks

coming into town, and its $50,000.00 a year roughly, shouldn’t we

be able to chop that down to $25,000.00 year if we eliminate recycling.

Because at this point, recycling is costing us money, if not making

us anything. Our ordinance is set up that we can sell the recyclables,

he is not buying them from us. We never went that extra step, so its

like, if we had to cut costs could we do this. And it was no no no, don’t

want to do that. I’m not saying I want to do that. Solicitor Solymos said

let me try to explain what the guy is trying to explain is. Why when

Solicitor’s Report Page 7

you have two children and you’re paying child support when that

first child turns eighteen your child support doesn’t go down by

50%. It goes down, if you were $100.00 a week it doesn’t go

down to $50.00 a week. It goes down to $80.00,$78.00, I have

to explain that to a client and they’re not happy about that. I think

that’s the mentality and you’ve gotten there. We’re doing so

much with the actual removal of the garbage, we don’t have

the one, that’s how they’re doing it. Councilman Snyder said all

I need is to explain that but they haven’t been able to do that.

Councilman Noll said some of the things are subsidized and gets

the trucks with grants, he gets money from each municipality.

It’s a fraction of programming. Councilman Snyder said at that

point cut us a break on. There’s more involved in that. A motion

to sign the contract with York County Solid Waste was made by

Councilman Manns. The motion was seconded by Councilman

Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.

Stormwater Councilman Snyder said I have one other thing here, we only have

Projects/ five minutes to get into it. Something to consider, Sandy brought

Fees it to my attention. She said it’s a funding source that Dallastown

to Help puts on their residents. Basically it’s a once a year fee of $10.00

Stormwater fee for stormwater issues that they charge every resident goes out

Issues on their garbage bill. Here’s their ordinance, I had her get a copy

of their ordinance. It just showed up, on the 31st, the idea would

be to turn it over to Pete, have him look at it. See if this would

something appropriate for Yoe Borough. Since its going on the

garbage bill, it would capture all the rental units. So it would be

a better way to raise funding, than say a tax increase that would

go on the property. This would hit all the rental units as well,

because of course we’re getting that garbage fee that is being

hit on every unit. What the amount would be is yet to be discussed.

Steve is going to have an update for everybody as we get into

engineering of our meeting with PENN DOT and how that way.

Thus the need to raise more funds. If you want to briefly get into

that, but the idea was do we want to have a motion to have Pete

look over this and see if he felt in his legal opinion if this is

reasonable. I don’t know of any challenges that Dallastown has

had. Councilman Myers said have him look over it, I don’t have

problem with him looking over it. Councilman Snyder said I see

nods of head, there is a consensus of council then. Solicitor

Solymos asked how old is that? The secretary said its on the

last page when they signed that, maybe two or three. Solicitor

Solymos said 2001. Councilman Snyder said they charge ten

dollars one time a year. So it would be a one time fee. Councilman

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 8

Noll asked is it advertised as such or is it put into garbage? The

secretary said its called stormwater fee and its listed like that on

the bill. On the garbage bill, they also have the sewer so on the

bill they have stormwater fee. The secretary said I don’t have

sewer so on the bill it says $66.00 the first quarter of the year,

$56.00 is garbage and $10.00 is the stormwater fee. Councilman

Noll said do you really think they use it? Personally I don’t

think I would look at it until after the budget process. See

how much that ten dollars can raise. Councilman Snyder said

that’s easy, you have 454 units that are billed out each quarter.

So that would be $4540.00 at ten dollars. We may be looking

at twenty dollars. And the only reason, just to give you a little

bit of what he’s going to be talking about. We had an on sight

meeting with PENN DOT, they looked at our stormwater

infrastructure, said that while they can’t say they kept it at the

same base, that they’re may have been more overlay than what.

This is going back to the complaint that we had from Bob Morton.

When he showed up. They said they are not taking responsibility

for anything. He did say that, they would come back with a jack

hammer, they do see where, at some portions there are openings

like that in our storm drains. They would come in and jack hammer

everything that was overlayed whole way along Main Street. Clean

that out so we get more in there. However it was also pointed out,

the ones on South Main, we have no collection point until we get

down to, Philadelphia Street, so we have all that run off. No

collection points on the other streets, Fourth, Third and Philly,

except on E. Philly, we do have some there. And that probably,

what is coming because of our system that is set, its underneath

the sidewalk. There’s no way for that water, it too much of

the force of that water, and its going to bypass it anyways even

if they do this jack hammering and they’re going to help out on

a minimal amount. So we have a tremendous water problem on

Main Street, is what this boils down too. We also know Dana

identified a sink hole that we have on Broad Street that we

briefly discussed, we haven’t looked into how much money is

needed to fix it. And we did discuss with PENN DOT, the spring

issue out on Main Street, which they’re not taking responsibility

for, they said that would fall back on the municipality. And

they’re recommendation is to capture it, in a pipe, and run

it under the sidewalk, and then from the sidewalk run it over

to this storm drain system that is already collapsing there on

Broad. So now you’re looking at replacing this and all the

sidewalks from Newton Alley the whole way down to Broad.

Just to get this spring water underneath and off of Main Street.

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 9

We know that, that spring as long as its flowing is going to

create an icing problem in the winter time if its allowed to

stay out on Main Street. Which they didn’t seem to be too

concerned about. So. Then it just went one step further in

my own mind, okay we have all these problems with our

stormwater system, Dana identified a funding source, by

the H2O grant which is only 50/50 matching. We already

know we have issues with our bridges. And its like, we’re

going to spend all our liquid fuels money to fix just Broad.

We still have these other problems coming in. So let’s do

this the right way. We already know, if you’ve been on council

long enough. Five years ago, we put for CDBG funding for

sidewalks on Main Street. Which we didn’t get, because the

sidewalks on Main Street are in deplorable state. So lets wrap

this all into one big project, do it the right way. Do it all at

once, our liquid fuels money will go twice as far. See what

other funding is available. Tom said that there may be money

coming in February for stimulus money. Try to get it together

as one package, stimulus money doesn’t come through, it has

come through then as H2O grant. We then have a $700,000.00,

$800,000.00 dollar project, where are we coming up with our

half. We got to borrow it. Councilman Allar said we have to

put the sidewalks in. Mr. Malesker said it is if we’re going to

do the stormwater. Councilman Snyder said it is if the stormwater

is under the sidewalk, we’ve got to replace them. Councilman

Allar said maybe ten or twelve feet but the rest of the sidewalk.

Councilman Naylor asked the pipes actually run under the sidewalk

the whole way down Main Street? Councilman Snyder said pretty

much. Councilman Noll said in the area that there is stormwater.

Councilman Snyder said not where we’re going to be putting it.

But you see as we’re going to be putting that it, we’re going to

be disturbing all the curbing, just to even put it in. I mean it could

be, the idea was we need to identify the project, we have a funding

source that’s out there, the H20 grant that we know is coming up.

This isn’t anything that’s going to be done over night. Okay but,

we have this problem we need to address it. At that point , the

borough could afford that 10 to 15 thousand a year payment. Because

we would have to take out a long term loan. This when looking at this

one ordinance, and Sandy brought it up, that would be a way to offset

the cost of that loan. That’s how the whole thing ties in together.

Councilman Noll said if you are going to do that, instead of going

through the whole hassle keep looking at the whole thing, just raise

taxes. I hate to see these fees, it angers people. If you are going to do

it be honest about it, raise taxes. Solicitor Solymos said understand

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 10

the way this is drafted, and I agree with this money goes into a

separate account. And its strictly for stormwater management,

that’s all. Specifically we advertise for that in this ordinance.

I wanted to see that. Councilman Snyder said if we have to take

out a twenty year loan and then we know the maintenance on

the dams is always going to be there. We’ve had storm water

issues that this could help. Councilman Naylor said a $20,000.00

gain a year for that loan. Councilman Snyder said I was thinking

$10,000.00 a year easily. Now and like you said, and this was

going to be a discussion under engineer’s report. So that was the

only purpose. Councilman Noll said I guess I don’t disagree with

trying to find new sources of money but, to me that’s one of

those sources like the head tax we just got rid of, do we truly believe

that is how we will spend the money, allocate it in the budget, raise

taxes and be done with it. Instead of making more work for someone

to collect these, go after the people don’t pay them. You have a better

chance of getting your money anyways through tax. Councilman

Snyder said that’s a distinct possibility too. Councilman Allar said

taxes how a way of coming back and biting you in the end. And

you are actually losing. You get to a certain point where potential

home buyers have so much that they’re going to spend. And for

every tax dollar, they expect a drop in their mortgage. They only

have so much to spend. How do get to drop a mortgage when you

get less for a house. If you do that enough all the time, the assessed

value are going to go down and they aren’t going to work with

that. They look at assessed value. You kill yourself again, you make

a few bucks up front and then lose it over a long haul. I think we

are tax enough. This is not a tax account as it as it is, let alone

taxes. Councilman Snyder said and that’s why I mean I could go

either way as to raising the property taxes, raising on this fee. That’s

why I was just having Pete just look it over. When I just discussed

with you, is something, that we’re going to be in the beginning

stages of, if we’re even turning dirt by 2011, I’d be surprised. But

we need to have a plan and say, yeah, save the infrastructure, we’ll

commit to it and then we’ll figure out. If this stimulus money comes

through, we don’t even have to worry about it. But we need to have

a plan as far as, as long as everyone knows that if we go through with

that project we need to come up with whatever the amount is going

to be. Because we don’t even know what loans are out there. You

can get a zero interest loan, maybe a two percent loan. Maybe we’ll

need to raise $18,000.00 maybe we’ll need to raise $4,000.00. I don’t

know its too far off. Councilman Allar said we need to have a plan

but I think it needs to more expansive than what you’re talking about.

This probably a good grant. We got to look at grants, we got to look at

Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11

new sources of revenue, we have look at economic development

which we’re not doing, we have to look dual use projects. Which

were some of things I tried to get into as far as the park goes.

Right now, we have money to decide if a particular project is

worth doing. We spend the money, the project comes in, we walk

away from it. We can have another project, the second project

makes money. And with the money we can got back and do the

` first project two to three years later. You know the one that wasn’t

going to make money. Some of the ideas, you don’t like

skateboarding fine, there’s batting cages. I talk one director about

dog runs. He is putting up dog runs. I didn’t know this, there are

vendors out there, that sell dog biscuits. I mean you aren’t going to

get rich over it, but its something. But it doesn’t cost much to put

up either. This is the way we have to look at how we’re going to

spend our money. If you can make $10,000.00 or $15,000.00,

$70 to $75,000, and the equipment has a life of 20 years. That’s

$200,000.00 to $500,000.00 dollars for matching money to put

in for storm water or whatever. Let’s say we’re not going to raise

taxes, we’re not looking at stuff like that. I was going to wait

until later but I’d like to bring the York County Economic

Development Corporation in here and do a little talk to see what

they do. We need a committee, maybe three people on council,

maybe a couple of business people, start thinking about it. What’s

our five year plan here. Its got to be strictly more than one grant

application. Councilman Snyder said okay, we need to watch our

time here. Councilman Allar said we go from one crisis to another,

that’s all I’m saying. One financial crisis to another. I think we

can do better than that. Councilman Snyder said like I said, I was

just bringing that up as part of, so we didn’t waste time to discuss

on some engineer issues.

Recess of the Regular Meeting at 7:40PM

Councilman Snyder said I’d like to recess the regular meeting at


Public Hearing for Ordinance 2009-03

Councilman Snyder said I’d like to open up the public hearing for

Ordinance 2009-03, duly advertised for the adoption of requiring all persons,

partnerships, businesses and corporations to obtain a building permit for any

construction or development and the issuance of such building permits within

the areas of the borough which are subject to flood. And establishing penalities

thereof. Any visitors like to recognized? Let the record reflect that no one was

Public Hearing for Ordinance 2009-03 (cont.) Page 12

here to comment. Discussion? This is the latest and greatest revision, so it did

incorporate the comments from York County Planning. Of course we already

know why it didn’t pass last month. But this the last revision, so we’re still

going to meet our deadline. Do you know who, needs to send this where?

The secretary said I have a comment there, I don’t know, I am just asking

a question? Councilman Snyder said do you know who gets this, would you

be willing to send this, you can send it electronically whatever. The secretary

said do you need the signature page? Mr. Malesker said yes. The secretary said

we will have Dana bring it in then. Mr. Malesker said I can scan it. The secretary

said then you will take it with you then. Mr. Malesker said yes. The secretary

said I’d like to have that back ASAP because I’d like to get a copy to Dan Shaw.

Mr. Malesker said all I need to is to scan it and drop it off on my way home.

The secretary said that would be good. Councilman Myers said you can send

it to Dan’s email. The secretary said you could do that too, do you have Dan’s

email? Mr. Malekser said no. The secretary said I’ll send it to you then.

Councilman Snyder said any other discussion, I do see the effective date is

September 25, 2009. The secretary asked and there is nothing else we have to

do for the residents of the borough, to let them know anything about that.

Councilman Snyder said I guess the responsibility will be on Dan and our

third party contractor. Basically its going to restrict all the building in the

flood plain. Its that strict. We have no choice as far as what it is. A motion

to adopt Ordinance 2009-03 was made by Councilman Noll. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman Snyder

said so be ordained.

Adjournment of the Public Hearing for Ordinance 2009-03

A motion was made by Councilman Myers to adjourn the public hearing

for Ordinance 2009-03. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns.

All in favor. Councilman Snyder said hearing is adjourned.

Public Hearing/Presence for the Park beginning at 7:45PM

Councilman Snyder said I’d like to open up the public hearing for the park. Mr. Malesker

said it doesn’t need to be an official public hearing, it was advertised that the public

would be here to add to it. That is one requirement of the CDBG. Mr. Malesker

said there is no one here from the public. Mr. Shearer said we had those nice signs.

Councilman Snyder said I already recessed the regular meeting, so we’ll hold a public

hearing, it was advertised as such. Okay the floor is yours. Mr. Malesker said I don’t

know if you guys have been able to see the bid pack yet. Basically the whole bid,

the base bid is $167,961.00. If we add the money for co-stars which is $60,955.00.

That gives a total project cost of $228,916.00. Budget for this project is $170,000.00.

So what we have here is $58.916.00 of work that we basically need to do, eliminate

before the contract is awarded. And yes we’re willing to contribute more money to

Public Hearing/Presence for the Park beginning at 7:45PM(cont.) Page 13

the project now from general funds. But now what we can do to award the project is

award the contract, based on the base bid without the alternate, it would be on the

base bid and then deleting a few items to get to what we have in the budget. And what

I suggest is, we would delete the overflow parking lot that would eliminate $7360.00,

we would eliminate 158 feet of the storm water, that would be the inlets that we

showed on the plan by the basketball court. I can open up the plans and go over this

if you want me to, to show this to you. That would eliminate $5688.00 for storm

water pipe. Two inlets would be another $3160.00. And the manhole which would

be $1360.00. And then if we deleted the park pavilion renovations from the contract

that would take another $42,100.00 out. For a contract cost of $168,808.00 which

is within the budget of $170,000.00. And we also talked to CDBG, they did say

say that this would be a very good time to ask. I would suggest I know that there

is some money in liquid fuels, you could use the liquid fuels money to pay for the

storm water work that would be out on Philadelphia Street, since that is public

street, liquid fuels money would be available to pay for that portion of the storm

water work. And I also attached a direct letter of what I would send to York County

Planning about if Yoe Borough is willing to put in as many as $10,000.00. It doesn’t

have to be liquid fuels, the amount is your choice also. It could be liquid fuels,

general fund whatever you choose. They would then come back and let you know

how much money they would put in. I don’t know how much that would be. But

sounds like, they are willing to put something back into it. The intent would be

to add the pavilion back in. With the additional money. Councilman Naylor asked

what percent would we have to come up with ? Mr. Malesker said we don’t know.

Councilman Myers said it would be gamble, we would hope to get the rest of it.

Councilman Snyder said basically what he is saying, if we would commit, come up

with a figure tonight, say commit $10,000.00, he’s going to try to get the other

$32,100 from the county. If they say, we’re only going to give you fifteen, then

its not enough to do that. Councilman Myers said they have balances that they

can do that. Councilman Allar said we have to be very careful, we have a lot of

street projects, that liquid fuels won’t stretch. With sink holes and all that, we’ll

be into the capital reserve fund. That isn’t that solvent. This is not life and death,

if streets start opening up and swallowing houses that’s something. Councilman

Myers asked Sandy how much do we have in liquid fuels? The secretary said

around $75,000.00. Councilman Allar said it looks like we might be using that

in the next couple months. The secretary said and then you’ll get another 18 or

19 in April. Councilman Snyder said or, we could just dip into the capital reserve

fund which I mean in all honesty. I don’t have a problem of putting $10,000.00

in. And seeing if the county is willing to put up the rest. Again we’re stretching

$10,000.00 of our own money, to get hopefully $30,000.00 in return. There’s

no guarantee, they’re not going to pony up the money and we don’t spend any

of it. If they’re willing to give us the rest so we can put the pavilion back in.

I look at this way, last time when we bought, I think you were even on then,

when we bought our truck, we took that out of our capital reserve fund. That’s

how Ron had us do it. Now we’re saying with all this money in our liquid

Public Hearing/ Presence for the Park beginning at 7:45PM(cont.) Page 14

fuels, unfortunately has to be used for equipment. We can’t use $30,000.00 that

we now buy a truck because we took it took it out of capital reserve before

because we didn’t have enough money in our liquid fuels to buy the equipment.

Now we have excess money in equipment, we have the money in the liquid

fuels now we don’t need the equipment. We know we have money to cover

equipment in liquid fuels its safe to take $10,000.00 out of the capital

reserve knowing we have money in the liquid fuels to cover equipment.

Councilman Allar said I’m not sure if we’re safe, every month there seems

to be a new project. Councilman Snyder said we can’t use that money anyways.

Councilman Allar said that’s our decision anyways. Councilman Snyder said

no the state says you have to keep so much on equipment. Councilman Myers

said really. The secretary said I have to keep that on the yearly report. Councilman

Myers said really. The secretary said since the day of time. Councilman Snyder

said and that’s why, there was such a discussion when Ron had us take the money

for the truck out of our capital reserve fund because I think we had at the

time we had $16,000.00 or $18,000.00 in our equipment fund. It wasn’t enough

to buy the truck. Councilman Allar said you are saying we have to have a certain

percentage. Councilman Snyder said its like $30,000.00 right now. Councilman

Myers said what is the percentage on, the total you get each year. The secretary

said it keeps accumulating, over the years. That is set for equipment. When you’

bought that truck you probably should have pulled that out of there. Then you

have started from the bottom and started all up again. Mr. Shearer said we

used some of it for. The secretary said for the salt spreader. Councilman Allar

said so we can’t spend it. The secretary said you can spend it on equipment.

Councilman Snyder said if we have say $90,000.00 in liquid fuels the most

we can spend on roads is like $60,000.00. Councilman Allar said so if we

can’t spend how does that help us. Councilman Snyder said because we now

have that for equipment, I’m saying that frees up. The reason, our capital

reserve, we don’t have to tap into capital reserve for equipment. Councilman

Myers said I use mine all the time. The secretary said on your report, you list

it on the page. Its an allotment. Councilman Allar said how can you say its

for equipment? Councilman Snyder said its not, which is why, I’m saying

we either have to take it out of liquid fuels for road work or if we want allocate

$10,000.00 so we can get more money from the county, we don’t want to

take it out of liquid fuels because we know we have this other project coming

down the road. We can afford to take the $10,000.00 out of capital reserve

because we have $70,000.00 for capital reserve, that we now know doesn’t have to go for

equipment because we have money set aside in liquid fuels. Councilman Naylor

asked so if we ante up this $10,000.00 and they don’t match the other $31,000.00,

can we? We are just showing we’re willing to. The secretary said then we don’t

spend it. We have to check with Gerry Wagner and make sure everything is

copasetic. Councilman Myers said take it out of liquid fuels. Councilman

Snyder said I’m saying, I said, he made the recommendation that since there

are storm water improvements involved we can take the money out of liquid

Public Hearing/Presence for Park Beginning at 7:45PM9(cont.) Page 15

fuels to pay for it, that’s how we can come with the $10,000.00. Tom said,

now we have all this liquid fuels money that we’re talking about, what

happens, we may now want to take it out of liquid fuels. That’s when I

said you may not want to take it out of liquid fuels, its safe to take it out

of capital reserve because we now have money for equipment in liquid

fuels which is why we were building up our capital reserve anyways which was to buy

equipment. Councilman Allar said if we take it out of capital reserve now, and let’ say

a calamity happens, maybe its not connected to roads it something else and we need

money can we also take it out and use that with it. Councilman Snyder said capital

reserve yeah. Councilman Allar said okay, so its money we spend now, we we’re

not going to have a future plan. Councilman Snyder said correct. Councilman Allar said which means we could be walking on thin ice. Once we suck that up, that’s not a lot of money,

guaranteed we got the next two three year of tax increases. Because we have no way of

keeping it going, not at the same rate. Councilman Snyder said well, the capital reserve

is replenished each year with $10,000.00 cable franchise fee. If we take it out now, we’re

going to be replacing it. Councilman Allar said these projects, are big buck projects.

Councilman Snyder said I wasn’t planning, there’s no way capital reserve is going to

touch that project that we discussed earlier. Its not even going to touch it. Is why you

are going to be looking at a long term loan for something like that. And try to keep

the payment in a manageable amount. One of other ways to make the payments,

there is a lot of ideas out there, $10,000.00 from a storm water fee is spread out

among everybody, not just home owners. We have also have your $10,000.00

capital reserve or $10,000.00 coming in from cable franchise. Right there is

$20,000.00 a year that can go towards the payment. I guarantee you give me

$20,000.00 on a thirty year note, you’re looking at borrowing 3, 4 million

dollars. You’re talking some big money there. Councilman Allar said I think

the taxes should be the last resort. Councilman Snyder said oh yeah, that’s

why I didn’t want to confuse this issue with that issue. Whether we like it or not,

because we’re cutting out the park pavilion, that’s one of the buildings that we’re

going to need to do upgrades to it. The electrical problems are still going to be

there. The kitchen problem is still going to be there. So we’ll put a couple thousand

in each year to try. Councilman Allar said its not so much where we’re taking it, I’m

just saying money that’s gone, for whatever emergency, we’ve been having bad

luck. Insurance is going up, in another year we’re going to have trash collection

come up, we have no idea what that’s going to be, its certainly not going to go down.

Police goes up every year, another 6, 7, 8 %. These are givens. And the revenue,

I don’t see anything coming in on the revenue side to match any of it. Councilman

Snyder said, the only thing Tom is, I agree with everything you just said. But

we’re not the only municipality in that same boat. I mean if our tax rate is 2 ¾

now, and that’s mid range from where the other municipalities are. Everyone

is in the same boat that’s already there at five mills, and we’ll have to raise ours

to four mills. Its still going to be relevant. Its not like Yoe Borough is going to

be the only one that has to raise taxes and everybody else won’t, so therefore

no one is going want to buy Yoe Borough like York City. York City is way off

Public Hearing/Presence for Park beginning at 7:45PM Page 16

the mark, they’re mileage rate is 25 mills compared to another municipality.

Councilman Allar said we’re actually number three, because we’re affiliated

with the school district. You have to look at the total cost. We’re the highest

in the district. Don’t forget, their revenue keeps going up, because they

have properties that are more attractive and more modern, not 100 year

old homes, not so much row homes. So probably gained more appreciation.

The price appreciation is going up 1 to 2% that’s more revenue. Councilman

Snyder said right now, that’s what I’m saying, if we take ten thousand out of

capital reserve, we know, its done on a quarterly basis, within the year its going

to be replenished. So that’s not an issue, that’s money will be replenished.

Councilman Noll said a third option would be to go to low bidder contractor and

possibly remove other items to get the scope that we want. Mr. Malesker said

yeah. Councilman Snyder said I think at this point we would need in order to see

what the county is willing to do with us, say yes the borough is willing to commit

$10,000.00. And again if they come and say they are only willing to give us

10, well that wouldn’t be enough to put in the pavilion anyways,we’re still going

to have to work with them and work with the contractor. I mean maybe at that

point you go and say well will keep the overflow parking or something. We don’t

know what we’ll end up with, all we need to do is as a council, is one award

the low bidder minus the outlines the engineer gave us, so we’re within our

$168,000.00 budget. And then also as a council say we are willing to commit

$10,000.00 and have our engineer go back and see what he can do with the

county. That’s basically what we’re here for tonight. Councilman Noll asked

where are we coming in the budget so far this year? The secretary said we

are doing pretty good. Councilman Noll said is there any surplus? The

secretary said I don’t want to say that yet. The secretary said number one our

beginning balance was stated wrong when we started off the year, we started

lower than what we had. Taxes have been good. Municipal service fees have

been good. And everything else is about the same in line so far. Right now

I’m looking real good. Like I said to Sam, the last quarter of the year you have

your most money going out. You have insurance bills, you are finishing up

on a lot of other things. Like you said, I did transfer the money from DCED

which was $25,000.00, I did one transfer into the general fund checking account

to pay the bills for this month. Left a lot of the money in the savings account,

its not getting much interest, I thought that would be better to do it that way.

You have about $8500.00 left in the DCED grant, of which I’m sure Steve

will have additional bills for engineering and design until the end of the

year. I’m sure that will be eaten up very quickly. Councilman Allar said

the $27,000.00 difference between the $195,000.00 and the $168,000.00,

that’s engineering. Mr. Malesker said engineering is not part. Councilman

Allar asked where does the $27,000.00 show. Mr. Malesker said you

are talking about the grant money, there is the $25,000.00 from DCED

for engineering, so I subtracted that out with the $170,000.00. Which

would be the $70,000.00 grant from DCNR and the $100,000.00 from

Public Hearing/Presence for the Park beginning at 7:45PM Page 17

CDBG. Councilman Allar said you are subtracting $25,000.00 out. Mr. Malesker

said from the $195,000.00. Councilman Allar asked and why are you subtracting

that out? Mr. Malesker said because the engineering money is not going towards

the structure of the park. Councilman Allar said that’s what I said, that’s mostly

engineering. Mr. Malesker said its 100% engineering, that $25,000.00. Councilman

Allar said now the engineering that we paid you already, and Jason over the

last two years. The secretary said yes, I just transferred that money into the

general fund. I’m up to date on that. Councilman Allar asked and that’s going

to cover everything from now until the final inspection. Mr. Malesker said yeah,

that’s the hope. The secretary said $8500.00 is left. Councilman Allar said we

can live within that figure. Mr. Malesker said yeah, we getting this last month

we put a lot of time on the park. You didn’t get that invoice yet. The secretary

said no I didn’t. Mr. Malesker said I hope, putting out for bid. Councilman Allar

said I’m just making sure we don’t have any surprises along the way. And we

have another $10,000.00 in engineering. What items are you recommending

eliminating again? Mr. Malesker said to get within the budget of $170,000.00,

it would be the over flow parking lot, a portion of the stormwater, which

would include two inlets and a manhole and the pavilion. Councilman Allar

said to everything within the budget. Mr. Malesker said yes, then the hope

would be to add the pavilion back in. Councilman Allar said its not a lot of

money but $2400.00, do we need a horse shoe pit. Mr. Malesker said that’s another option too.

Councilman Allar said that could pay for some wiring, okay I just wanted to know.

Mr. Malesker said Joiann is here. We’re talking about we’re basically $58,000.00

over budget. So we’re talking about items to delete to get within what we have

budgeted. And then we mentioned that we talked with York County Planning and

that we are going to submit that letter for additional money. We’re just saying

basically that Yoe Borough would commit another $10,000.00 and I know you can’t

say a figure but I guess the chances would be good that there would be get some

money, additional funding for the park? Ms. Galiano said its difficult right now,

it would have to go in front the commissioners first. Would this request be part of the

overall improvements? Mr. Malesker said part of the pavilion, said yes it would

to towards the pavilion. Councilman Snyder said so then, that would help sell

that figure. And again, we don’t have to come up with what its actually excluded or

included, like we were trying to say do we actually need the horseshoe pits. All

we need to do is accept the recommendations of the engineer which gets us within

our target figure of $168,000.00, we know we need to eliminate $58,000.00 from

the project. Then we need to commit, if the borough wanted to, $10,000.00 to

go back to the county, to say okay, we’re coming up with $10,000.00, county

please help us, we would like to get everything. Maybe we could start and ask

for the entire $48,000.00 left and break down exactly what we have and if they

have the funds available,which she is saying, hopefully we get, if not hopefully

they won’t break up individual projects and they’ll say well because the park

pavilion is still ADA compliancy we’ll give you $32,000.00, the parking lot we may not give.

Hopefully we’ll still get some. Basically all we have to do tonight is accept that

Public Hearing/Presence for the park beginning at 7:45PM Page 18

low bid with the recommendations of the engineer to get us within our cost figure.

Then commit, and if the council would want to commit more than $10,000.00,

we could but then go back to the county and say, this is where we are at, how

can you help us. Until the county gives us a figure we wouldn’t know where to

start. We could say we give $10,000.00 and they say we can only give you

$5,000.00, well maybe, that wouldn’t be enough to do the pavilion. Councilman

Allar said we also have that $5000.00 of in kind services. Councilman Snyder

said yeah, and I don’t know how that would work. Mr. Malesker said I’m

not sure what that $5,000.00. Councilman Allar said its $5000.00 that we don’t have to match

that. Councilman Snyder said it may be a way to get our over flow parking

back in. Councilman Noll asked you can use it as part of the RFP. I am not familiar

with Legend Construction, do they have to give a company profiles. They are a qualified

bidder. Mr. Malesker said we have actually worked with Legend Construction before.

Mitch Seitz owns the company. Councilman Noll asked what the size of the company is,

how many people do they have? Mr. Malesker said I don’t know that. We have worked

with them before. Councilman Noll said the only reason I bring it up, normally I wouldn’t be

as concerned but if its 2 guys and pick up truck and we have the December deadline. I want

to be sure the company can perform. Two, have they accepted the bid, I never say the

package that went out, did we obligate them for any penalty like it has to be done by

December 15. Mr. Malesker said there are liquid damages. Councilman Noll asked

starting at what date? Mr. Malesker said after December 31. Councilman Allar asked

did you give them a start date, estimated start date. Mr. Malesker said they have a

completion date, they won’t have a start date until its awarded. They have a date that

it has to be completed by otherwise they will suffer liquid damages. Councilman Noll

said with us moving dirt and everything else around, has county conservation given

our blessing, do we have to do that? Mr. Malesker said there is less that 1/10th of

an acre disturbance, so you do not have to submit a formal plan. Follow the best

plan of attack, which we are showing on the plan. Nothing formal has to be submitted

to the conservation district. Councilman Noll said they technically beside from the

building permits, they could start tomorrow. If they were so inclined. Mr. Malesker

said we would have to get the paperwork together, but yes. I have actually met with

them and talked to them about this, they actually have some ideas on how to bring

the price of the pavilion down too. And I don’t know any of the details on that, but

they had some options that basically we could have an award session and meet with

them to discuss those options. Assuming that we put the pavilion back in. Councilman

Noll said just want to make sure everyone is comfortable, again, just I not sure

how familiar everyone else is. My biggest concern is about the deadline, if you feel

comfortable I’ll take your professional opinion on that. Mr. Malesker said yeah,

that was the first question. Any time we get a bid, I always call the low bidder, and

talk about these type of issues with them. And the site work is actually very minimal.

And the things that affect getting the equipment in the park equipment in because

that’s what the DCNR grant. So that stuff has to be done. Councilman Noll said

part of that, is to see the schedule, the documents, RFP’s. I just want to make sure

we have all that covered. Councilman Myers said I make a motion we go with the

Public Hearing/Presence for the park beginning at 7:45PM Page 19

lowest bidder provided that all the documents are in place, based on the base

bid, we aren’t awarding the alternate. Its based on the base bid. With

the recommendation of deleting out projects as identified by the engineer.

Also to recognize that Billet Construction was a non responsive bid. They

did not bid on the park lighting, all the other bidders bid on the park lighting

that’s what I discussed with the solicitor. The solicitor agreed that we could

not accept their bid since its not a full bid. Councilman Snyder added they

were second bid, we are accepting the lowest bid and accepting his

recommendation and then recognizing Billet Construction was non

responsive. Mr. Malesker said the deleted items would be change order

number 1 would be the deletion of those items I outlined in the engineer’s report

to get with them for the $107,000.00, so the contract would be awarded

to Legend Construction for $168,808.00. The motion was seconded by

Councilman Manns. Councilman Noll abstained because my corporation

submitted a bid for this project. All in favor: Councilman Allar, Councilman

Snyder and Councilman Naylor. Councilman Snyder said let the record

reflect that the majority of the vote was in the affirmation. Councilman

Snyder said the second issue about the ten thousand dollars, we then

have, is that first all, $10,000.00 is that what council wants to go with.

Have the engineer, go back to the county explain the situation what we

cut out, and try to get the full amount so we can still do the project and

hopefully, you know how to word it. If they aren’t going to give the

full amount at least not break up projects. Mr. Malesker said yeah,

the over flow parking would be something that if it has to be dropped

that’s fine, the priority, the number one priority would be the pavilion.

Councilman Snyder said and then the overflow parking lot, I don’t think

we need the extra inlets anyways. Mr. Malesker was talked about that

out there anyways. Councilman Snyder asked what else were we

deleting out? Mr. Malesker said well the storm pipe and manhole.

Councilman Snyder said okay. So then we’d be going for $42,100

and 75 so we’d be asking them for like $39,000.00. Is that what

council wanted $10,000.00, I mean at this point until we know

what the county is willing to give, we don’t have determine where

its coming from. Councilman Myers made a motion that we give

$10,000.00 from the capital reserve fund. And that we review the

vote again, after the county response is in. Councilman Manns

seconded the motion. All in favor: Councilman Snyder, Councilman

Allar, Councilman Naylor. Abstaining is Councilman Noll for the same

issue. Councilman Snyder said let the motion reflect that it was

carried on majority vote. Are you going to make that request for

the county? Mr. Malesker said yes, I have a draft letter with the

engineer’s report that I will be sending to Joiann tomorrow. The only

thing I didn’t have, I wasn’t sure what your contribution would be,

so we will put that in and send it of. Councilman Snyder said hopefully we will

Public Hearing/Presence for the Park beginning at 7:45PM Page 20

know something fairly soon. Councilman Myers asked Steve, since this is a grant,

does everything have to go through the contractor or can you stay other stuff out

of it. Let’s say tree removal, if we would take tree removal out and have our

own contractors do it, take it out the grant, can we do it? Mr. Malesker said yes,

tree removal isn’t part of the DCNR grant or CDBG, the tree removal I thought

was a pretty decent price. $2555.00 to remove 25 trees. Councilman Noll asked

if I may ask, a copy of the spec package and does the borough have a copy? The

secretary said here it is. Mr. Malesker said yes, I brought a set with me, you are

welcome to it. Councilman Snyder asked anything else you need, you know what

you need to do then. Councilman Noll said you want to set up a meeting with the

contractors. Councilman Snyder said I was just going to say, depending when we

hear back from the county, since that was dropped out of this, that can actually

be negotiated with Legend, that wouldn’t be subject to the December 31st deadline.

Because technically that is outside of the scope of this parameter. Mr. Malesker said

well there’s still. Councilman Snyder said as long as we don’t screw up the DCNR

grant. Mr. Malesker said I think the intent would be that if its added back in, it would

follow the same contour, be added to the contract. It would be added as a change

order. Councilman Snyder asked so it would be still? Mr. Malesker said it would be

still be under the same contract so subject to the same conditions. Councilman Snyder

said I wanted to make sure we weren’t shooting ourselves in the foot. Councilman

Naylor said like we added to the project. Councilman Snyder said yeah, we added

work to the project. Mr. Malesker said it was part of their original bid so its not

adding work to their original work. They bid on that original work. We deleted it

and then added it back in. Councilman Snyder said and what Tom was trying to say,

the DCNR grant was $70,000.00 as long as you gave $70,000.00 matching funds.

So we got a $100,000.00 from the county which was covering the DCNR grant of

$70,000.00, it didn’t have to be just money, it could be in kind contributions or

something like that . Kinsley already donated, a figure of $6000.00, $6200.00 of

in kind services or contributions that they already gave. In fact technically, that

can go towards that $70,000.00 which means there we should have an extra instead

of $30,000.00 of free money with the county that should give us $35,000.00 of

free money. Was your figuring back in, say the county only gives us $40,000.00

but we know we need that extra $7500.00, okay. So there is a way to work that,

to get that $5000.00 in, in kind contribution from Kinsley credited toward the

DCNR that frees up the extra $5000.00 from the county of the original $100,000.00

of which point we can through that back in. That is what he was trying to say.

Councilman Noll said $4532.50. Councilman Allar said plus didn’t we pay something.

Councilman Noll said you paid for materials and I don’t remember what that

was. The secretary said we also have when we took stuff to the landfill, we kept

those bills separate and we kept the bill for the new water heater separate. I have

the folder back here with the rest of the park stuff. Is there a way, let people know

about those in kind services. We pay it back to us out of the $70,000.00? Councilman

Allar said no I think we put it in the documentation we send in. The secretary said

I want to make sure that is done, I don’t have any contract with DCNR. Councilman

Public Hearing/Presence For Park beginning at 7:45PM Page 21

Allar said they are going to look at any combination to get to that $70,000.00.

The secretary said as long as I understand what I’m doing. DCNR when will

we get the money and how is that done? Mr. Malekser said they just want to know

the award date and since its officially awarded, we’ll call that tomorrow. The

secretary said okay, they will send us a contract like DCED did with the money?

Mr. Malesker said yes. Councilman Snyder asked so if you could with your letter

to the county, have it in about that extra $5000.00 of in kind contributions so

that actually frees up another $5000.00 that they may be willing, you know what

I mean, instead the borough of giving $10,000.00, we actually have $15,000.00 that we gave

them. The secretary asked is this a bill that we need to look at? Councilman Noll said

this is the labor for the project. Mr. Malesker said this work hasn’t been perform yet?

Councilman Snyder said it has been performed. We should get credit with DCNR.

The secretary said both of them are donated dollars. Councilman Allar said a lot of

that has been already been done. Mr. Malekser said but, that is what their bid for

the work that needs to be done, now. They took into account all the work that was

done, they took into account. This is the work that needs to be done. Councilman Allar

said I feel more comfortable because Seth knows. Mr. Malekser said Seth did the

specs for the bathrooms and pavilion. Councilman Allar said there was nothing left

to do then. Councilman Noll said they have the boards in there, plumbing. There’s still.

Mr. Malesker said they will have a schedule of values to give us, that will breakdown

all of your money and where its going. What they bid on, they did not give a price for

work that is already complete. What they give a price on was work that they will

complete. Councilman Allar said I just want to make sure that we aren’t putting

money in their pocket for something already accounted for. Mr. Malesker said if

there is toilets in the garage we want to use, we will tell them that there are toilets

that we want to use and then they will delete that from their schedule of values.

Councilman Allar said I just had a wrong understanding, I thought we only had

6 to 8 thousand left to do. Mr. Malekser said they do have some ideas on savings

of money because there, they had mention that they had to rip out the floors.

There is a lot of work that has to be done. And we can meet with them to see what

we can do to trim that. And I told them that since we didn’t that portion of the

project that we will have to have Seth and Kinsley involved with those changes

to that. Since the contract was awarded, we didn’t discuss price anything that

would donated. Councilman Allar said there is one thing that I’m disappointed in,

that’s not on here, and that’s cameras. We have a system that has expired its useful

life. And we have areas that are not covered. This seemed to be the golden opportunity.

Mr. Malekser said but that was discussed before that, that was going to be separated

from. Councilman Allar said we are going to suffer from that with insurance claims,

you know what I’m saying. If there is some more ways of saving some money, then

put it in, that would be higher priority. It’s a safety issue. Councilman Noll asked

about setting up a kick off meeting. If anyone from the borough wants to be on it.

Call a job meeting. Mr. Malekser said you, I think for sure and that’s up to the borough.

Once we send them, let them know that the contract has been awarded, send them

a notice of award then they will be willing to meet very quickly. Councilman Noll

Public Hearing/Presence for the park beginning at 7:45PM Page 22

said I think we should meeting next week at the latest. Councilman Snyder

said I think we discussed as construction goes on from day to day monitoring

activities, Dana would probably be the point of contact. Councilman Noll said

we want to establish job meetings, to check progress. Have some dates.

Mr. Malesker said they need to nailed out before notice to proceed. Councilman

Noll said right, that’s why we should have a kick off meeting and get any

final questions answered. Mr. Malesker said and of course we can’t have that

until here back from the county to know what our final budget is going to be.

To know what we have to add back in. Councilman Noll asked how long is that

going to take? Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure. Councilman Noll said it’s a thirty

day process, now we’re in October. Ms. Galiano said it will be presented to the

county commissioners for their approval. Councilman Snyder said we can get

these guys started on the other stuff that we know we’re doing. Mr. Malesker

said right. Councilman Noll said that’s what I’m saying, I don’t want to hold

off until we know for sure, we need to press immediately. Mr. Malesker said

what we can do is, get a schedule of values for those things. Ms. Galiano said

you can schedule pre construction early too. Since you have the requirements

on this job. Mr. Malesker said I don’t know if you and Deb would come down

we need to have an official time to set down. Councilman Snyder said you’ll

take care of setting that up then. Mr. Malesker said sure. The secretary said

just make sure that, Dana and I talked to Gail Koller, the park rental coordinator,

the last park rental is October 10, 2009. So if they begin to work on the

bathrooms prior to that, you have to leave someone know so portable rentals

can be put up there and also keep in mind, that pavilion is going to be used

probably more in October than the outside because of cooler weather coming

in. But October 10th is the last park rental. Its always on the weekend, so there

is no problem that someone is up there working during the week but keep

in mind there will be people using the facilities until October 10th. Mr. Malesker

said I’ll have to check with the contractor. Councilman Snyder said well

considering we dropped the pavilion off of the scope of work initially and

we’re going to negotiate it with the county to get it in. Councilman Naylor said that will take that long

to get in. Councilman Snyder said that will take that long to get that squared

in. The secretary said if they are beginning to rip out the bathrooms you have to let

Dana and I know, we have to have them. Councilman Naylor said did we consider

not renting out anymore because of this going on. The secretary said I made an

executive decision not to rent the park out anymore this year. Mr. Malesker said

which is good, Legend is going to be a construction sight, they don’t want the

liability. The secretary said I hope they know to put the tapes up and all that, they

have to think of safety. People are going to be walking in there, they might want

to play on the old equipment too. So they have to remember that. If they are

going to hit the bathrooms first, please let someone know so we can get

portable there. Mr. Malesker said that is something we will discuss at the

meeting. The secretary said I just wanted to let you know that its being

actively used in September until October 10th. Mr. Malesker said we will

Public Hearing/Presence for the park beginning at 7:45PM Page 23

need to contact you when they start. The secretary said so we can get Knapers or

someone up there with portables and Gail is aware that construction is going

to start. Councilman Noll asked how does next Thursday at roughly 2:30, look

at that as a target time. Mr. Malesker said I don’t think I have anything at that

time, but I have to go back to the office and check. Councilman Noll asked

who all from council would like to be part of meetings. Councilman Myers said

I’ll help when I can. Councilman Allar said you can notify me. Councilman

Noll said probably need more than one council member. Councilman Snyder

said okay. Before I close out the hearing for the public meeting. One other thing

I did want to get on public record. It was duly advertised at the Fire hall on

the signage. I appreciate that cooperation of that. We do have a photograph of

that for the record, that it was duly advertised. Councilman Myers said actually

I have picture of it. Councilman Snyder said Dana took a picture. The secretary

said and Steve has a copy of it and he forwarded it to Joiann. Everyone has

a copy that needs to have a copy. Councilman Snyder said so it was duly advertised.
Anything else?

Motion to close the public meeting at 8:37PM

A motion was made by Councilman Myers to close the public meeting at 8:37PM.

The motion was seconded by Councilman Naylor. All in favor. Councilman

Snyder said meeting is adjourned.

Reconvening the regular meeting at 8:37PM

Engineer’s Report

August 19 Mr. Malesker said let’s start with the meeting with the Army Corps.

Meeting Tom and I met with Mike Danko from the Army Corps and Jack

With Army Hill from DEP that was on August 19th. So we met at Mill

Corps and Creek Preserve. They walked in the creek, they walked over the

DEP place. And decided that is very good sight for the wetland mitigation

area. He gave his okay on using that. Also he called to let us know,

that they are going to reopen or reissue the original permit for

the basins. And he is going to put conditions on that permit to

allow the mitigation to take place. So it’s a good solution. Councilman

Allar said even before we get the letter, he’s given us a verbal

for the removal of the trees, bushes and all the woody growth out

there. I mentioned it to Dana. We can start on that right now, if

he contacts the sheriff’s department. When the sheriff’s department

can come in. Then we can get the letter. Mr. Malesker said they

don’t have any jurisdiction over removing vegetation. Councilman

Allar said but he wanted to run it by his boss. Mr. Malesker said

he wanted to run it by his boss on removal of vegetation but he gave us

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24

the green light. Councilman Allar said DEP has the jurisdiction and

I had already cleared it with DEP. Hill had already cleared it.

Mr. Malesker said that just means they cleared it for vegetation,

not sediment things like that in the stream. Anything above the

stream bed. Councilman Noll said so with the same, I have a letter

that can be put into the file and then sent. Councilman Allar said

a copy should be sent to Danko and Jake Romig. Councilman

Noll said what that is, York Township, we went back for the

second time and they agreed unanimously that it was a great

idea and they agreed. The secretary said I need the address to

send it to. Councilman Allar asked do you still have the email you

sent it. The secretary said I can’t email it, I don’t have a

scanner. Councilman Allar said Jake’s is on the proposal he gave us.

I don’t have Danko’s. Mr. Malesker said I have Danko’s email

address. The secretary said unless you want to scan this and bring

it back. It would be Jake Romig and Mike Danko. The thing to

respond back to us, at, that they received

it. Mr. Malesker said sure I can do that, I’ll copy you and have them

reply. Councilman Allar said while you are doing it, you might

as well send one to Hill too. All we need is one person not in the loop,

and then we have another month. Councilman Noll said its my understanding

that everything has moved forward with the York Township portion, they

are moving towards a proposal for the bid package. Probably want to touch

base with them, Mr. Miller from York Township. Councilman Allar said

actually its going to have to be between Steve and Jake and Miller because

with the Corps of Engineers and the mitigation plan, the mitigation plan

looks awful like the specs for the contract. So its my suggestion, I’m

not going to get into the engineering aspect its your job, it seems like

if you and Jake can do a draft of this, get it by Danko, and Danko’s gives

us an okay on that, then they can finalize that and get with the York

Township contract. We don’t what put pressure on the contract

and find out from Danko doesn’t like the mitigation. Councilman Noll said

I’m not sure of what Miller’s timeline for that is. Councilman Allar said

last time he told me, before the end of the year. Now if you looked at,

you did get the whole thing from the Corps of Engineers including all

the attachments. Mr. Malesker said right. Councilman Allar said it makes

some references in there as to what we need to incur. Mr. Malesker

said when we met up there, I talked to Jake and we’ll just work between

us. And we can do what he’s not comfortable doing. Councilman Allar

said because now, we have a bit of a time crunch. Mr. Malesker said

right. Particularly with the township. The township is ready to go with

contract, they’re not going to wait for us. Mr. Malesker said Jake has

it all. Councilman Allar said Jake can give a call in there, walk it through

and find out from Mike what they’re looking for. Mr. Malesker said yeah.

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25

Councilman Allar said that’s definitely what we need to get us there.

Councilman Noll said what points do we need to get us there for

the project? Mr. Malesker asked for the mitigation or for the flood

capacity upstream? Councilman Noll said the flood capacity upstream,

will we need a new set of specs? Mr. Malesker said actually that is

an item of discussion. Now that we are this far, we can of course,

will be contingent of getting the letter, but once we get the letter we

can start putting a spec book together. Getting this thing ready to bid.

At first what we need to work at, is where the dump site is going to be?

So that’s another item, that we need to discuss. I did talk to Jeff Shue

about that, and what he wants, is basically for to get approval from

the council here to approach Red Lion Borough Council to proceed

with creating a permitted site for disposal of the material that we

dredge out. Councilman Allar said I personally have no problem

with that, have to look at it the entirety, he’s their engineer. In the

meantime, I’ll be dealing with some of the people on council and the

mayor and so forth. Preparing them. Councilman Snyder said then we

need the authorization for C. S. Davidson to proceed with the bidding

of the capacity restoration. Mr. Malesker said to get the bid documents

ready on the project and get it ready to bid. A motion was made by

Councilman Allar to have C. S. Davidson to get the bid documents

ready on the project and get it ready to bid. The motion was seconded

by Councilman Mann. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion

carried. Councilman Snyder said and then also for authorization for

approaching Jeff Shue to approaching Red Lion Borough Council to

see about permitting a dump site. Mr. Malesker said that way, the

council will know that he came back by Yoe Borough, that we are

proceeding forward on the project. Councilman Allar said and you can

inform him of whatever timeline is going to be. Councilman Allar

made the motion. The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll.

All in favor. Councilman Snyder said the motion carried. Do you need

to write a letter and put it on our letter head and you can sign it? Mr.

Malesker said but if there is a problem on Red Lion on their end, we

are still going to get these documents together at some point it does

have to be bid but we can wait until next year to officially advertise

it, in the meantime we can get everything together if we want to bid

it this year. Councilman Allar said we can put in some kind of option

like the dumpsite on contingence. Mr. Malesker said well having a

specified dumpsite that close to the construction site is going to be a

big advantage and really. Councilman Allar said if its written up for

both contingences. Mr. Malesker said nothing is written up now.

Councilman Allar said I know but it will be. Mr. Malesker said then

we can have that as, the Red Lion as the number one option, then

the alternate someone else, then bid the price proposed and then

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26

award the bid based on. Councilman Snyder said we don’t proceed

at bidding it out that way, we had it come in. By the time we open

its going to be the January time frame anyways. We can see what

Jeff Shue comes back with. Mr. Malesker said we can have this

ready to bid in October, we can start construction this year.

Councilman Allar said we have the money for this year. Mr.

Malesker said if we do start this year, the only issue we would

have would be getting the seed to grow at that time. Councilman

Snyder said then hold money back. Mr. Malesker said either hold

money back, or have it in the performance bond that they have

to come back and seed.

Park Mr. Malesker said we went over the park. Are there any other

questions or concerns about the park?

PENN Mr. Malesker said I didn’t include the meeting that we had with

DOT PENN DOT in here but we did meet with Ned Harms, he was

Meeting the construction inspector on the job SR 214. Like Sam mentioned,

they may have put on more profile back than they took off but

there is nothing we can do about that. So if the curb reveal changed,

they’re not going to go back and mill things out. Its going to stay

what it is. What they will do is, where the mill off tops of curbs

like at in front of Seth’s house and at a few other locations, they

are going to come back and patch those. I don’t know if they’ve

done that. Mr. Shearer said I don’t think they’ll do that until they

come back and do ramp work. Mr. Malesker said the bottom line,

it’s a cosmetic thing. Mr. Shearer said techinically I guess the

project is not officially closed. That’s why the trailer is still up

there across from Tri Boro, they complete the ramp work so they

can satisfy it. Mr. Malekser said there would be items on the punch

list to close out the project. Councilman Noll asked did they remove

the signs? Mr. Shearer said they did remove all those signs they

had, the reason they were waiting, they had a pre final on the paving.

Mr. Malesker said so we also discussed the storm water issues that

Sam has talked about and then Sam found out about they do have

to come back and install new handicap ramps at all the intersections

in the borough. So if we do a storm water project, we would essentially

ripping out the handicapped ramps that they just put in so we thought

let’s see if we can talk to PENN DOT and instead of putting those in

make them part of our project and just have them give us the money

and put it towards our project. PENN DOT thought that was a good

idea, unfortunately they can’t make it happen. Too much bureaucracy

involved, there are federal funds involved, so the borough would have

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27

to apply for the money and it just wouldn’t make it happen.

Councilman Allar said I think you kind of knew that. Mr. Malesker

said yes but we wanted an answer so. That brings us up to the

possibility of the H2O grant to do some storm water work along

with that the bridges. You ask me last month to get an estimate together

for the engineering for the permitting of the bridges. Before I got to that,

I did find that there is money available, a little over a million dollars for

bridge work. It could be done right now. So I called county planning and

mentioned there two bridges, and he made some calls and found out

from PENN DOT that these bridges are not eligible for that money because

they are less than a twenty foot span. Therefore they’re not on the

National Bridge Inspection list. So they don’t qualify for that money, for

a bridge to qualify for that stimulus money it has to be over a 20 foot

span. Councilman Allar said Church Street would be close to 20 feet?

Mr. Malesker said the closest one would be the bridge up stream.

Councilman Allar said county bridge. Councilman Snyder said so that

brings us back to the original discussion that started before the meeting.

Mr. Malesker said so I didn’t put any effort in to getting an estimate to

put the permits together because with no money what is the point of

getting the permits so I didn’t waste any engineering time to get those

numbers together. It will have to be done at some point, we will need

include those with the H2O grants. Some work needs to be done on that

creek which should qualify. Councilman Snyder said so back to the original

discussion, whether we want to try to do something or not. I did take

a series of four pictures just for your record more than anybody’s. Cause

I’m sure anyone in town knows what Main Street looks like in a rain.

This was just a small rain on August 19th, we had 1/3 of inch in forty

five minutes. Basically you can see how much, all I did was take four

shots stay up at the intersection right in front of the house, coming

down from the house and two cars trying to pass. It shows the safety

issue that’s involved because the water pulls into the grass area,

directly across the sidewalk, out to about six foot into the street and

it does the same thing on the other side. What happens is when you have

two cars trying to pass one another, there both trying to ride the center

of the street because you can see the water that’s being picked up as

they’re trying to pass. That was a small rain. We only had that one

small, that was small storm that we had, lasted about forty five minutes

max. That’s the least that we’re looking at. When we have a real heavy

downpour, talking an inch in a hour with those two year storms that you’re

talking about compound that. The other week when Dana, month or

so, when Dana was talking about the flooding, yeah, it was what Bob

Morton was talking about. At that time, the water which you see cascading

at this telephone pole was easily up as high as the back of that car. That’s

how high up there, it comes right up. You can see it cascading right there.

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28

And what we’re doing is eroding away all these telephone poles and

all that there. Councilman Allar said however high that is go down to

Main and George and its twice as high. You’re going to see, cars

going back and forth. Councilman Snyder said exactly, what they

determined and Steve sort of agreed with, the fact that we have the

very first, I’m looking at this backwards here. The very first catch

that we have is right here at the corner of Main and Philly, and then

they’re under the sidewalk. You can see just on these pictures that it

cascades right up over it, it doesn’t even go in to the storm water

system. The first drains that we actually have out in the road is below

my house there is one on the other side at that open swale in between

167 and 171. And then other side of the street at Newton, there the first

ones that we actually have and they’re trying to catch by that time

everything coming down. So I guess we have to make a decision here

soon. Dana is going to be on our butts, with that sinkhole on Broad.

I personally hate to see us spending $40,000.00 to $50,000.00 on a

sinkhole and that uses up all our liquid fuels money and still have the

spring issue on Main Street. This problem isn’t going to get any

better. I think we just have to bite the bullet, we can go around with

Steve, we can identify the system and basically come up with a project.

And say this is what we want to improve this is where we want to take it

from point A to point B. We’ve identified a possible funding source for

the stimulus money. Doubt it will come through. We still have issues with

permitting because PENN DOT wasn’t too happy that we’d be tearing

up sidewalks and ripping up their new street. Which we said, hey look,

we told you about this before you put the street in, and you didn’t listen

to us. That is not our fault. Mr. Malesker said, they said that they’re

policy is once they pave a street, they won’t let anyone do anything in

that street for five years. Unless its an emergency situation. Councilman

Snyder said we already had the issue with the sinkhole, we had the

issue with the spring which should be dealt, they want to tie it into the

same box, it should be dealt as one project anyways. If you replacing

all that sidewalk from Newton Alley down to Broad. You may as well

make it all one project. Councilman Allar said you’re saying we have

all the projects and put it into one grant. Councilman Snyder said one

grant. Councilman Allar said including those say George and Main.

Councilman Snyder said right here is our storm water outfall. If you

recall when we did the storm water for improvements there on Mason

Alley, five six years back. Jeff identified that pipe coming back from

Yoe Auto Parts back to Wendy Tyson’s house, if that pipe in bad

repair. I pulled this out from our records because, I’ve been the MS-4

officer working with C. S. Davidson, right here is our current system.

And you can see that, that pipe work where we just showed in, it

would start right there at Main and George, those pipes are connected

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29

right there where the old railroad track is, take in that pipe that

goes to the new section that we just put in and basically replace

from those new inlets the entire way up, which would take

care of the sinkhole, take care of the spring and continue it up

to the borough line and put in appropriate inlets at Third and

Fourth. And move those ones out at Philly, out into the street.

Also take care of two bridges, cause that is all storm water and

we have one big storm water project. Councilman Allar asked

how bout the gabions? Mr. Malesker said and the gabions.

Councilman Snyder said yeah the gabions. Mr. Malesker said

and keep in mind, to qualify for the H20 it’s a minimum $500,000.00

project. Councilman Snyder said and if we did this we’re easily

looking,I figured Steve could, right here we have, we already have

these figures in hand, so we know what storm water inlets we’re replacing.

Three, four years ago, we did that grant for the Main Street sidewalk,

and that was going to go from where we stop the last time to the borough

line. So Jason put them in, they would have those figures as far as, how

much it would cost to replace sidewalk. We’ve already been working on

the bridges, how many years ago, we have cost estimates on the bridges.

I think we could probably poll the figures together relatively quickly and

easily to determine this is the scope and this is what we’re looking at.

Councilman Allar said I think we need to go back to Dana’s idea about

looking at the system, sizing. Councilman Snyder said and we could.

Councilman Manns said look at the hydrology, to figure out what we

need. Councilman Naylor said if we are looking to replace the system

from the lowest point, which is what we should do, start at the lowest

point and do it from there. Councilman Snyder said and that’s basically

what we’re doing. Councilman Naylor said so if we are going to replace

it, we should spend the money to investigate the system that’s there now.

Councilman Snyder said the only thing, investing in rest of the system,

would only, if you look at this, it is that area there and this area here which

wouldn’t be affected with what we are doing. Councilman Allar said but in

this town. Councilman Snyder said it still needs done. Councilman Allar said

we seem to find, five six from time to time. Councilman Naylor said you

send a camera up those pipes and. Councilman Allar said and there is terra

cotta pipe and who knows what. Some of them are big. We found that one

on E. Pennsylvania. I don’t know. Councilman Allar said Barry you’ve been

here longer than I have, if that’s not an issue. We don’t need to do it, I know

Dana brought it up. Councilman Myers said I don’t think it would hurt to

do that. Councilman Naylor said have it cameraed and see what we’re getting

into? Councilman Allar said one thing it might support the grant itself, we

can pick and choose what we want in the grant. Councilman Snyder said the

worse that happens maybe we can use liquid fuels money to do the cameraing.

I mean lets face it, when we are looking at a project this size, we know we’re

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30

going to end up borrowing money. That’s a given. Because the H2O

grant is a 50/50 match. Are we going to get the biggest bang for our

buck for at least going in for that? At that point, we only have $60,000.00

available for liquid fuels so if it takes $20,000.00 to camera the system

that comes, is that an expendable amount out of liquid fuels? Mr.

Malesker said I would think so, I would have to verify that with Gerry,

can’t see why not because its. Councilman Naylor said Dallastown could

do it. Mr. Shearer said Dallastown only has the smaller camera, they don’t

have that tracker model. Councilman Snyder said understand that when we

get into this main system, up Main Street, that tracker model probably won’t

work. We got involved in that when we were looking into the Wendy

Tyson deal. Because that is an old stream bed, you’re talking rocks and

everything else. Councilman Naylor said if it doesn’t have pipe to go through,

those cameras don’t fair too well. Councilman Snyder said you know what

we’re looking at, that’s what you’re going to find upstream. We may have

not have to camera this system if we know where we’re placing them. That

would be decision to do. Mr. Malesker said well, you know, there are some

other laterals tied in, we would need to know that anyway, where it does

tie in. Also the sump pumps, that are potentially tied in that could be tied in

also. Councilman Allar said would it be to our advantage to involve anyone

else, the water authority, any other municipalities, sewer. Dallastown

get involved since they have part of the upper part of the hill. Mr. Malesker

said its worth, if you are going to do something to tie in everything.

Councilman Allar said everyone has their own agenda, with the amount

of money, it could be put together to get work done. Councilman Noll said it

pretty much be just Dallastown that would pick up on Main Street.

Councilman Snyder said they probably think we will collect since it

goes down past the borough line. Mr. Malesker said I don’t think, being

their engineer I know that, that’s not of their dealings. Councilman

Allar said this is something that Jeff and Steve, could feel out with

Dallastown and Red Lion. Councilman Noll said I doubt if you would

get Red Lion. Councilman Naylor said it wouldn’t have any bearing on

them. Councilman Noll said Red Lion has always said we’re at the top

of the hill, you are at the bottom. Councilman Allar said you never know

unless you ask. Councilman Snyder said I would think if you stuck with

the Water Authority, the sewer authority, and Dallastown Borough just

as a feeler. I don’t think they’re going to put anything in just because

they’ll say, we’ll just let it run you’re going to collect it at Fourth Street.

The first thing is to identify the players, so put feelers out to the water

authority, sewer authority, Dallastown Borough. Councilman Allar asked

you aren’t at least going to say something to Red Lion? Councilman

Snyder said I think since its our infrastructure, I don’t know why Red

Lion would. Mr. Shearer said if you are going for H2O money, remember

that can be used on several projects and they do not have to tie together.

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31

Councilman Allar said and it also compliments the comp plan.

Mr. Shearer said that could. Councilman Snyder said if they have

projects in town of their own because we’d be going on for a

H2O. Councilman Noll asked and it doesn’t have to tie in?

Mr. Shearer said you can have projects, it doesn’t have to connect.

Councilman Allar said the other thing to keep in mind is that

the Dallastown Yoe Water Authority is full of mine fields, the

system was not in the best of shape when they got it from Red

Lion. And they are doing what they can to upgrade but if we

are going to do this, we have to have hard negotiations, so

money doesn’t get sucked up in the bottomless pit. Councilman

Snyder said okay, identify the players, the second thing to do

see if we can use liquid fuels money for the cameraing. Councilman

Noll said we need to identify the project, like the gabions does

anything else fall into that? Councilman Snyder said we know we

have the storm water inlet system, we have the gabions and we know

we have the bridges. Councilman Noll asked is there anything else

identifiable? Councilman Snyder said identifiable, hopefully with the

cameraing that would identify, I was waiting to see what we were to

do with the cameraing then that would identify the scope of the work.

It may include some of this, it may not. But while we’re doing that,

keep in mind MS-4 requirements, so we’re capturing that at the same

time. Councilman Manns said and questionable storm drains,that we

have to replace in the next five years. Councilman Noll asked do we have any

storm drains that are worth looking at on the other side of Main Street

going up towards Cape Horn? Councilman Snyder said there are some

there. There are inlets, they don’t show how they tie in. Really that

down there at Main and George, that’s a self contained, there right

` there and dump right there into the bridge. Councilman Allar asked

are you talking just repairing what we have or putting new ones in?

Councilman Snyder said up here, its putting new ones in. Mr. Malesker

said well that could be. Councilman Allar asked up where? Councilman

Snyder said from at least Pennsylvania Avenue and up, that whole

system needs replaced. Mr. Malesker said you have a lot of inlets there.

Councilman Allar said right out here, there is no storm drain on this

road at all until you get down at the bottom. Councilman Manns said

that’s true. Councilman Allar said the same way with Elm, they only

have one storm drain. Councilman Snyder said that’s why I said, we

need to identify what the scope of work is going to be. I’m not saying

its only limited to that, I’m saying we know have a problem here.

Councilman Allar said there’s no point to go up, its going to be

expensive, its going to take a lot of engineering time and money.

Then we find if we find out if we added another quarter million we

could have added another fifteen more storm drains. Mr. Shearer

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 32

said on North Main Street, we are in about the same situation. We

have 2 small inlets that are, basically recessed curbs, but they do

have small grated tops right above Gay Alley, right above my

property and right on, the other one is on the other side, Main

Street side of George’s property. They run down in. There’s one

inlet in my sidewalk, on the upper side of George. And then

there’s the inlet in front of the church at George Street, that

we’ve been having issues we delayed repairs to that. That all ties,

I think runs over in front of the church and there’s two inlets

right before the bridge and it dumps into the street there. So,

basically that’s why we have the volume of water with that at

the signal light. It’s the same situation,we’re trying to collect with

too small of inlet at the bottom of the hill. Councilman Snyder

said that’s why I said we need to identify what the scope of work

is going, we need to do the cameraing first but first we need to identify

the players. Mr. Malesker said I don’t know if this is federal money.

There’s are plenty of municipalities that are doing this. We submitted

this same application I think for seven municipalities last year that

were awarded. Next application cycle is due in August 2010. Councilman

Snyder said hopefully by 2010 we’ll be able to say this is what our

scope of work is and let’s submit for the money. Councilman Allar asked

would it help since we’re in a flood plain? Mr. Malesker said there’s

certainly an advantage to tying it in with other municipalities. Councilman

Allar said and that’s what I’m saying, you get people like let’s say

Red Lion, bring in Saylor, Miller, Mike Waugh. We’re going to have

them. Mr. Malesker said you have to those letters as part of this. Councilman

Allar said well they’ll do a letter at the drop of a hat. You get on the phone

and talk to them. Everyone does a letter. Councilman Noll asked do we

want Steve to put a proposal together for us, so we know how much this

is going to cost. Mr. Malesker said I would put a proposal together anyways,

so you would know what you are working with. Councilman Allar said

what the difference between terra cotta and corrugating pipe cost? Councilman

Noll said you may be surprised when you find out. Councilman Snyder

said so you know what to do. Mr. Malesker said I’ll get a proposal together

to do a borough wide storm wide storm water study, inlets, pipes and where

inlets would be needed. Councilman Snyder said and see if we could use

liquid fuels for that. Where this proposal that you are coming up with, how

much of it is liquid fuels. Mr. Malesker said the engineering should be,

engineering for storm water is eligible. The camera portion should fall under

engineering but I would want to call before. Councilman Snyder said even

if we have to use up our total liquid fuels money in the engineering aspect,

just so we can to the portion where we’re turning dirt and that money is

all going to be borrowed for our 50/50 match, so be it. We got liquid fuels

money we can utilize and we need to do this right and might as well

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33

capture all at one time. Councilman Allar said I’ll call Ron Smith,

President of Dallastown Council. Councilman Snyder said the worse

they can do is say no, they don’t have anything. Mr. Malesker said

I know the water authority is looking into upgrades. Councilman

Allar said the water authority will jump at this. Councilman Snyder

said its free money for them too, make your money go twice as far.

Mr. Malesker said typically what Dallastown does, they tie in,

if they are doing water line work, they’ll do the laterals, they’ll do

storm water work, they’ll do sewer, they’ll tie it all together. And they

make an entire project out of it. Councilman Allar said and they’ll want

to add a real good price tag. Councilman Snyder said here are the pictures

for your record. Mr. Malesker said okay.

Dallastown Councilman Allar said Steve and everyone, just for your information,

Yoe Water the Dallastown Yoe Water Authority, they are up there on Wilson Court

Authority lining the lines and so on. Someone had asked what is going on. They

Work got a work order from Rexroth to put in eight homes up there. Also they

are starting to get orders on Main Street. So we don’t know what it is.

Councilman Noll asked when you say eight homes, are you saying

single family homes? Councilman Allar said well, eight homes is the

way they put it. The work order should be on file, its public information,

with the Dallastown Yoe Water Authority. Mr. Malesker said I don’t know

if he’s submitted plans. Councilman Allar said they also have been paying

for eight sewer hook ups. So it looks like the Yoe piece is going to go.

But I think there is something. Councilman Snyder said he still has to

get that rezoned because that is still industrial. Councilman Allar said maybe

he’s keeping it that way. Councilman Snyder said he could be putting a

small building back there.

Aaron Ent. Mr. Malesker said I just wanted to mention too, you should have been copied

on the letter that Rick Resh sent out regarding Aaron Enterprises and then

wanting $4000.00 for excavation and patch they did on George Street.
Councilman Snyder said I got two of these in my mail, the one they

copied to me and the other was for Dennis Grove. The secretary said

why would the sewer authority need to know about? Councilman Snyder

said it was all done with the sewer authority. Mr. Shearer said initially

the reason they dug that hole was because they thought it was a problem

with sewer. The secretary said yeah. And then Mark Clark got involved

and said it isn’t. Mr. Shearer said yeah. Mr. Malesker said after it was

excavated. Mr. Shearer said they want someone to pay. The secretary said

I’ll send it to Dennis Grove. Councilman Snyder said personally in my

opinion, would be that it should come from the sewer authority first, because

it was a sewer authority issue. We weren’t even involved with it, Mark

Clark and Rick Resh and all these people from the sewer authority were

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34

involved from day one. I think they should be the ones, the sewer

authority is the one that has the deep pockets. Let them reimburse

the $5000.00, its now determined not to be a sewer authority issue,

now its our problem. But I think the initial $5000.00 is theirs. Because

that’s what they thought it was to begin with. Mr. Malesker said right,

and it turned out not to be and I think its their responsibility.

Councilman Allar said everyone says its not my problem, why can’t

we say that? Councilman Snyder said well we could, we could say

its PENN DOT’S problem cause its PENN DOT’S road. But.

Councilman Manns said but they say they’re not responsible for

what is in their road. Councilman Snyder said right now its just who

is going to reimburse Aaron, the $5000.00. I think it should come

from the sewer authority. Councilman Noll said I think if they push

us to pay, we need an itemized bill. Councilman Snyder said oh, the

itemized bill is there. The secretary said everything is there. Councilman

Noll said I don’t remember seeing it. The secretary said I don’t think

it did, because it came to your house didn’t it. Councilman Snyder said

mine came to my house, I don’t know why Dennis Grove came to me

because it had the borough’s address on it. The secretary said the

borough didn’t get a copy. It went to Steve, it went to Dennis Grove,

it went to Sam. Councilman Noll asked can I just look at it. Councilman

Snyder said Rick Resh from C. S. Davidson wants to know who is

responsible. I would think our official borough notice should be, tell

Rick and write it up in an official letter if you want, but I think it should

be the sewer authority. They come up with the money, it was sewer issue

to begin with that’s what they thought. The sewer authority asked them

to go back and do the work and now its turning out not to be sewer

related. I think the sewer authority had them come in and do this work,

cause they thought it was sewer related, they should pony up the first

$5000.00. Let the sewer authority be the one to turn it down. Mr. Shearer

said they still have to claim that it be part of our storm water system.

Councilman Allar said there is one grate there. Mr. Shearer said the other

end of that pipe, don’t go to anything that we’ve got that I know of.

They put in a lot of stone in there. Mr. Malesker said there was a storm

coming so they immediately had to close it up quick. Councilman Naylor

asked I’m wondering why its sinking again now? Mr. Malesker said

they didn’t it for. Mr. Shearer said they didn’t compact it down, they

didn’t have the opportunity to have it restored. Mr. Malesker said they

didn’t mention that in the letter that its going to have to be completely

repaired properly. They’re not going to do that, until they get the

$4000.00 Councilman Snyder said I think we need to have Steve write

the letter saying that it’s a sewer authority, they’re the ones that thought

it was a sewer related issue, unfortunately its not but the sewer authority

would probably the responsible party. Councilman Allar asked isn’t that

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35

York Township. Councilman Snyder said no its actually here in town,

it should be Yoe Borough Sewer Authority. Councilman Allar said

I thought that was on their line. Mr. Malesker said the sewer okayed it.

Mr. Shearer said it’s a York Township line that they tapped into,

the sewer authority had to get permission from the township to be

able to do the bore into that. Yoe Borough’s Sewer Authority customer

that did the work. So Yoe Borough Sewer Authority would be responsible

in getting their customer repairs. They did a bore from that house to the

line. Councilman Snyder said I think it should be the Yoe Borough

Sewer Authority’s, be paying it, because they thought that was where the

problem was. Mr. Malesker said it coincided with right after they bored

in. Councilman Snyder said it made sense, but I think up to that point,

it’s a sewer issue. Okay I’m seeing one nodding head. Mr. Malekser said

should that letter come from me, or I mean that should be on borough

letterhead. Councilman Snyder said it can be. This came from Rick

Resh of C. S. Davidson. Mr. Malesker said on behalf of the York Township.

Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, that was on behalf of

York Township. That’s why I was saying let it come from him saying

it was discussed at borough council meeting, we should feel that the appropriate

authority would probably be the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority. And send

a copy to the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority and Dennis Sarpen and send it

to them and send it to all these people so everyone knows that it should

be our sewer authority that should pay for it. Councilman Naylor said and

request payment from our sewer authority not us. Councilman Snyder said

there is a consensus there. Do you want that in a form of a motion, I just

got a consensus from council? Go ahead then. There is a consensus.

Councilman Snyder said I think the borough is ultimately going to be

responsible but the first $5000.00 we weren’t even involved with it,

I think should stay sewer at this point. Because we have our liquid

fuels money tapped into for the next couple of years. Councilman Naylor

said its worth a try. Councilman Snyder said let them fight with them,

at least we’re identifying it, and the sewer authority is keeping mum on

the whole situation. Mr. Malesker said you are recommending that 100%

should be the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority’s responsibility. Councilman

Snyder said cause it was a Yoe Borough Sewer Authority’s customer that

the work was being directed at and who they thought the problem originated

with. Turns out not to be, but. Mr. Malesker said okay. Councilman Snyder

said its like the borough didn’t have any involvement as far as getting them

in to do the work. Councilman Allar said we never authorized expenditure

via work order. Councilman Snyder said that was all under the direction

of the sewer authority. Okay. Mr. Malesker asked did they even notify

you that they were going to be out there digging? Mr. Shearer said

Mark might have called me that day, I think he left me know only because

we were taking the lead in trying to tract the lead in getting something done.

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36

Nothing was getting done as far as fixing the sinkhole because we were

getting complaints from our citizens. That we initiated the call to PENN

DOT to get the whole ball rolling, saying hey there’s a sink hole in your

road. And they started pointing fingers at everyone else to pass the buck.

Councilman Noll said I don’t see any reference in here to a state permit?

It’s a state road. Mr. Shearer said it would have had to have something

from John Glatfelter on it because I know I didn’t talk to him directly

but had left messages when we were trying to get them to get something

fixed. Because the hole kept falling in, whatever they put in to patch

it, kept falling in the hole. So it had to be, coming from him, they had

to have PENN DOT permission. Mr. Malesker said Terry Sprenkle was

there. It said, Mark Clark sent a report, I don’t know if you guys got a

copy of that or not. I think you did, I think they sent it back to you.

Councilman Noll said the reason I brought it up, is there a cost associated

with state, for the state permit. Mr.Shearer said the reason I think is, I don’t

know if they kind of grandfathered it in under the permit that they issued

for the bore because originally we were thinking that the bore went bad.

So the reason they did the bore, it was new road that they didn’t want them

to cut. So it basically, determined that the bore went bad, you need to cut

the street. I think. Councilman Naylor said did the issue an emergency road

cut permit for a sinkhole? Councilman Noll said an emergency because the

road was being collapsed. I don’t know what cost is associated or if it

was time consuming. Councilman Allar said Steve, I think you need to

cover that Yoe Borough never verbally or in writing authorize any

repair work. Mr. Malesker said right. Councilman Snyder said it reads

on behalf of the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority customer, just sounds

like to me that the Yoe Borough Sewer Authority should pick up the

tab. Mr. Malesker said that’s all I had for my report. Unless there

are any questions? Councilman Snyder said anything for the engineer?

YBSA Councilman Snyder said just FYI, we did get the latest copy of the

Minutes Yoe Borough Sewer Authority’s minutes that was held on June

11,2009. That’s now part of the record.

Notice Councilman Snyder said we also received on August 26, 2009 from

from DEP, notice that they’ve extended the MS-4 general permit for one

DEP year and that extension was published August 15, 2009 in the PA

Bulletin. So our existing PAG-13 is now effective from March 10,2010

to midnight of March 9, 2011. Mr. Malesker said I have a copy.

YCP Councilman Snyder said this looks like this came in yesterday, York

Memorandum County Planning Memorandum, draft of the amendment to the county’s

comprehensive plan. Involves a complete update to the housing plan.

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37

Public review process being held Tuesday September 15th at

Fairview Fire Department, Wednesday the 16th at York County

Emergency Services and Thursday September 17th at the call

center at the library. That’s all I had for engineering.

Rettew Councilman Allar said last month we talked about the Rettew

Contract Contract, this issue of easements and as builts. I went through

my files, here’s the contract with the county, CDBG. Its just

a lot of information. This is the Rettew contract, their scope

of work. Right of way negotiations by others, by others they

are saying they are not doing it. Prepare construction drawings

by others. Specifications by others. Advertisement and newspaper

costs by Rettew. Proposal contract bid payment of performance

bond, Rettew. Construction based and grade by others. Utility

work station by others. Required temporary construction work

easement by others. Planning review prior to advertising by

Rettew. Labor and Industry by others. Historical preservation

by others. Pennsylvania Department of Transportation by others.

Department of Environmental Resources by others. Soil erosion

and plan by others. Army Corps of Engineers by others. Local

requirements, zoning, subdivision by Rettew. And those are basically

it. We also have in the file a letter by Barbara Stump who was the

attorney at the time, I reviewed the Rettew contract, the borough

does need to be aware of the scope of work and the timeframe

much of the engineering work needs to be done by others assuming

paid from some other fashion. She is pointing out, the contract,

be aware that there is a lot of work that Rettew is not going to

be responsible for. So we’re on the hook. The CDBG contract puts us

on the hook for everything. We are the ultimate responsible employee

and we have to give up our first born. Now, we can work through

the timeline here, with the wetlands. Those documents and the contract

and its important you understand the timeline here. We were changing

engineers. But this was done in October 1997, that was the contract

with Rettew and basically the county was November of 1997. Construction

began in spring of 1998, and was bid within 98. There is a letter here from

Rettew to Kinsley asking that a bond for $4900.00 to cover the wetland

monitoring. I have a copy of the bond itself signed by Kinsley and a bill

going to CDBG for that amount of money. I have another bond for $11600.00.

Same thing to cover wetland maintenance/monitoring and so forth,

$11,600.00. And also a bond for that. Correct me if I’m wrong, I came

on council in January of 1998, and I believe that is when we changed

engineers. Councilman Snyder said pretty close to that. Councilman Allar

said so here’s what you have, you have these contracts being signed.

And a whole bunch of work being required by others, the others of course

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 38

would be the borough engineer. In 97 it would have been Holley,

in 98, Holley’s gone, C. S. Davidson is here. Easement and as

builts can’t be done until the project is done. At least towards the

end of it. Now we have a new engineer. As far as I want to take

it at this point. As far as Holley and Rettew goes, this is a letter

from Rettew and you may remember this Sam. This is near or

at completion, late August, the borough had a contract for $12850.00

for professional services. And in addition to our originally agreed

upon scope, Rettew has provided services which include resolving

a property line dispute with the location property owner, sanitary

sewer line in concrete encasement, including DEP general permit

number 5, what would you estimated it takes to do to do a GP 5,

maybe that’s $3000.00. Mr. Malesker said that depends on the

scope. Councilman Allar said basin spillway flow adjustment including

obtaining approvals from DEP. Sanitary lateral design including

preparation of a legal description and graphic exhibit for an easement,

highway occupancy permit preparation and processing for construction

entrance, construction cost estimates and maintenance cost estimates.

Anyway they have a bill here for three grand, that is a pretty cheap

price. We never paid it. There was actually two bills, there was other

bill for $500.00. Which we did pay, we stiffed them on this one, we

never paid it. They should have done a lot of extra work out there.

I know I mentioned it at the time, I find no fault with Rettew and they

did not sue us, they didn’t do anything else they walked about for it.

Mr. Malesker said they did not provide that conservation easement.

Councilman Allar said well actually they did, even though it didn’t

specifically say it in the contract. Here’s the conservation easement,

I’ve got it. You screwed up. A memo from Jim Stuckey, he was

the engineer of record, I know I didn’t get to talk to him over there

at Rettew, maybe he’s not with them anymore. Okay, please have

your solicitor review we will forward this to the Army Corps of

Engineer’s for approval when you sign and execute this. And then

it has copied to Pete Solymos and copied to Jeff Shue. This has

blanks in it and its not signed so here’s what happened. The

Army Corps of Engineer’s got this, knew it wasn’t official it

was just for their information, so they never gave us any credit.

We probably never reviewed it. Whether that was us, or Pete,

or Jeff, who knows. But we probably dropped the ball. So that’s

why this never got filed. As to the as builts, they’re right, there

certainly on the books. It would have been nice, even though

Rettew was running the show, if C. S. Davidson would have said

by the way, make sure that such and such is going to get done.

Remind us, kick someone to do it, which probably have been

C. S. Davidson. Well anyway, it didn’t happen. Mr. Malesker

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 39

Mr. Malesker said but C. S. Davidson had no involvement with

that project. Councilman Allar said no, they knew the project

was going on. Every meeting we talked about the project. And

that’s routine, we don’t think, the same kind of documents and

so, that you deliver on a day to day basis. I know what as builts

are, I know what easements are but oh yeah that’s right you

have to do this. Just as reminder so we don’t forget about it.

So I have easement, at least a draft of one. Councilman Snyder

said I don’t, all I know, there isn’t any copy of that back in

the borough folder. What I found in the agreements, and the only

reason I was trying to go after Rettew for the as builts and the

easement is because Rettew was also suppose to take care of

obtaining the DEP permit or the Army Corps Permit. Councilman

Allar said Rettew was? Councilman Snyder said yeah. Councilman

Allar said not according to this. Councilman Snyder said according

to, you don’t have all three addendums. In the addendums, Rettew

was suppose to take care of obtaining the permits, when they

obtained the permit is when it came up with the wetland monitoring

and all the other conditions on the wetlands. It went back to the

county, we got extra money for that and that was signed off on an

addendum, I think that was on addendum four. That is when they

actually got paid to do that work. Prepare the wetland easements and

everything else. It was in the addendum that it wasn’t really specified,

who was to do the as builts. Now you would think, now I did, they’re

saying that they are willing to do the, the only question is the as builts

for the new place. Because Rettew is saying they are willing to do

the easement over there. On the wetland monitoring, that ended up

in Kinsley contract, because that was going to be for five years after

that. I contacted Kinsley, told them that this was never done, where

can you help us out here. They’re in the process of going back, to who

they went to, which was Davis Landscaping, to do the actual monitoring.

They can’t provide that the monitoring was done, so I have the word

out to them, now look, now we all need to pony up and I think Kinsley

will be providing the wetland monitoring at least for four years. They

are providing one year’s worth of mitigation reports. The contract was

for five years so they’re trying to find out where the four. They have

calls out, the last I heard from Tom Ferrence. The last phone call that I

had out from him, he is still working with Davis Landscaping, they’re

trying to see what they can provide to see if those reports were ever

done. Which I doubt that they ever were done. Councilman Allar said

don’t have Davis do it, Davis doesn’t have the qualified staff. Its going

to take a long time to get them down here and you’re going to have

DEP come down here to walk them through. Councilman Snyder said

I’m pretty sure that Kinsley is going to be willing to, he said the same

Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 40

thing. We all dropped the ball here. This has been going for nine years.

Its finally come back to bite us, we all have a responsibility, now its

where can we all pull together so we are not litigate this for years in

court. And saying you didn’t do this and you didn’t do that, because

everybody is going to be pointing the finger back at everyone else.

So its going to be whomever Kinsley picks. Councilman Allar said

but what I’m saying, is there a way to say, hey you know I know

of a qualified person. Councilman Snyder said maybe check with Jake.

Councilman Allar said I know of qualified person is willing to do it.

He’s helped to establish this, of all the people would probably know if

the wetlands are maturing and doing what they’re suppose to do.

Councilman Snyder said as far as the as builts, I honestly think when

that change order came through, it should have been picked up by the

county then. That was going to be a requirement. I also have Tom in

there at Kinsley looking, I said how did Davis do the first inspection

without an as built? They had to have something to show what they

were looking at, where they were looking at. I said if you can provide

me with an as built, so we at least show the Army Corps that it was

done and who did it, and at least then we can go back to someone

to get these as builts. But as far as the current program or situation up

there with this mitigation, I talked to Steve and I think I mentioned it

to Seth. I honestly don’t see since York Township has to provide

as builts for their whole eight acres, can’t the as built be a little dotted

line on that big sheet of paper and say this is .76 acres and this is what

we sold off to Yoe Borough. And that be the as builts, York Township

already has to do everything else. Councilman Noll said that would be in

their proposal. Councilman Snyder said that would in their proposal,

so I think we can cover ourselves with the mitigation except for maybe

one year. I think we’re definitely covered with the easement, the as builts

can be covered with the proposal York Township’s doing and the only

money we have to come up with is the actual purchasing of the land or

whatever deal you came up with York Township. Councilman Allar

said we don’t have to buy the land. Councilman Snyder said well then

its going to hopefully minimal on our end. Councilman Allar said before

this is over, York Township will have to go on file with DEP and the

Army Corps of Engineer’s with some sort of a document, it is their

property, they’re ultimately responsible for these things even though

they are going to come to us as responsible. But officially the Corps

of Engineers will want some form of formal agreement from the

township. Councilman Noll said that is when Pete would come in with

some sample easements, and some things that will have to be catched

from the letter and filled out to know where actually where that piece

of the land is. Councilman Snyder said it’s a concept, its just a concept

Engineer’s Report(Cont.) Page 41

at this point. Okay. Anything else? Very good.

Maintenance Report

Grass Mr. Shearer said between vacation and cutting grass before and after

vacation and working with the bidders up at the park its kind of

Bidders been a slow month for anything else.

Door Mr. Shearer said I have that door on top of my agenda, I will get

a price for that door. I already contacted John, there is a gentleman

coming tomorrow to take a look. And I asked Barry who the county

uses, to get some ideas for some different people. I want to get some

prices for both these entry doors. We’re getting a lot of rust and stuff

on them, from the salt and stuff, the closure here is shot. Plus they

aren’t very energy efficient anymore. So get a price so you can mull

that over and hopeful put that in the budget for next year. Councilman

Myers said Hershock’s and phone number is 238-7331. Councilman

Noll said Architectural Door and Hardware have steel doors, they

may be cheaper. You want them to install it too? Councilman Myers said

they don’t use their own people, they’re terrible. I take you show you

and show you a door. Councilman Noll said we install ours. Actually

get a material price and I can get a guy. Mr. Shearer said I can do that.

Councilman Myers said Architectural you can get a good price.

Cell Mr. Shearer said the other thing, Sam brought up at the end of the

Wireless my report last month, I didn’t report what I’m doing with the wireless

Phone plan I discussed before because excessive charges. I did add 150

minutes to the plan we currently have, for only $5.00 a month. Right

now we’re on a month to month contract. I’m trying to keep track

of it, using the phone here for making calls that I figure are going to

be 25 minutes long. I shouldn’t have as much problem. I’m going to

switch to T Mobile once I need a new phone. Councilman Snyder said

just like you said when you know the conversation is going to be twenty

to twenty five minutes long. That could be, with the stuff is going on

this borough that could be. Mr. Shearer said that’s what happened,

before when I ran over with all our conversations trying to follow

up for people to fix that sink hole, I kept calling PENN DOT and calling

Mark Clark saying you’ve got do something here. We ran a lot of

minutes. I’m trying to use the shop phone more. That’s pretty much it.

YCP Councilman Snyder said we received a request from York County Planning

Request asking the municipality to send a letter of support for the Pennsylvania

WAY WAY Finding Signage Program for York County. I mean. Councilman

Finding Myers said its just a letter. Councilman Snyder said I don’t think its going

Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 42

Signage to affect us too much but. Mr. Shearer said I read through that, they

Program just want a letter. A motion was made by Councilman Myers to

Letter send a letter of support to York County Planning on the WAY

Finding Program. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns.

All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Do you have

your copy of the proposed letter? The secretary said I can get it off

of the email. Councilman Myers asked if the email could be forwarded

to me. Councilman Snyder said anything else for maintenance?

Zoning Officer’s Report

Councilman Myers said the file is here. He sent a letter for grass over six inches.

He had one complaint, he sent a letter out, filed some paperwork for a body

shop on George Street. He checked on the zoning permit for 179 S. Main Street.

He filed some paperwork at the borough hall. Total hours are 2 ½ hours and 12 miles.

Councilman Snyder asked any questions for the zoning officer?

Emergency Management Agency Report

There is no report.

Mayor and Police Report

Councilman Snyder said the mayor is not in tonight. Let the record reflect he was off on

a business meeting and it conflicted tonight. He will be out of time from September 5 until


Secretary’s Report

Free Yard The secretary said just as a reminder that the free yard sale dates are

Dates September 4th and 5th.

Penna. The secretary said I am sharing with council that I’m submitting to the

Municipal Pennsylvania Municipal Retirement System, our municipal obligation

Retirement for 2010.


Financial Councilman Snyder said everyone see that we got our financial update

Update for council, dated August 10,2009 which showed what amounts were

8/10/09 transferred over to Members 1st Credit Union. And some of those amounts

we discussed thoroughly when we discussed funding sources.

Councilman Snyder said anything else for secretary?

Maintenance(revisited) Page 43

Snow Councilman Myers asked can we go back to maintenance for just

Removal a second. Could we, on the snow removal crew that we have Dana,

Crew is it possible to look for somebody other than council members

to be on that? The only reason I say that because some of my work,

has changed at work and depends on what kind of snow it is, I have

to go to work. I wouldn’t much help for me, other than dig out the

cinder spreader. I don’t want to be relied on, I don’t mind helping.

If we’re called, we go. And that’s the problem, George is on there

too. So depends on what would happen, I’m going to need George.

Mr. Shearer said that’s the thing, the three people that are needed,

John included, depends on what the school district has to do too.

He is kind of flexible there, depends on the cleaning schedule, he

does have time to do that. I’m open, if you can decide if there is

someone you want to add. I don’t care if want to add another person.

Councilman Myers said I just want permission to try to find someone

or other people. Councilman Noll said does this involve just ride along

people. Councilman Myers said no, to plow, to actually plow. If he

puts in eighteen hours, he would want to go home and then George and

I would finish it up. Then we separate hours. Mr. Shearer said it would

be for the bigger storms. And that’s kind of the thing, the bigger storms

all three of them are going to have some responsibility at their job to

deal with that storm. And there was times, George would work at the

county come home and got in the tractor and cleared intersections out.

Slept for a little bit, and went back to work to deal with the storm again.

There kind of in the same boat I am, its like, they’re doing this on their

free time away from work. The bigger storms, if I had a second person,

gives us the ability to have the second truck on the street. The smaller

storm when there isn’t as much to plow,if its just a spread only, those

I can handle. It’s the big situations. Councilman Snyder said go ahead

and start checking around. Check with Strobecks again, cause they’ve

been off for a couple years now, the Woody situation has died down now.

Mr. Shearer said it wasn’t so much the Woody, Bob basically that he

would like to not be as responsible for that because he’d like to be able

to do things knowing he doesn’t have those responsibilities. You know

what I’m saying. Come November, like in my situation, through March,

you don’t plan to take days off, you plan to go away for a day but still

depending on the weather. Just because you don’t know what’s going to

creep up. He has said, he is willing, he would be a resource that if we

get into a big storm and needed big trucks, you can call him. He does

not want to be a responsible party to be on of the call people and say

you have to be out here. Councilman Snyder said like Barry said check

down there at the fire department. They drive big trucks down there.

I know that’s probably different than driving a plow. Councilman Naylor

said I know I’m already out doing that. About ten minutes after you go

Maintenance(revisited) Page 44

by my phone rings. Councilman Myers said I just don’t feel comfortable,

I don’t mind being on that list but I had to worry about this last year,

if something big happens, I need to go. There was one point one year,

when we had that heavy snow, we actually went in and help open York

City. Open up alleys, behind county buildings so. Councilman Naylor

said not that I wouldn’t volunteer but I wouldn’t want to be. Councilman

Snyder said I can put a note in the newspaper. Councilman Myers said

let us do some checking first, sometime word of mouth gets you a better

employee. Councilman Snyder said its not like you are doing it for

gratis, you are considered a part time employee. Councilman Myers said

I know someone who has a mowing business, I give him a call and see

if he is interested. Councilman Allar said who do we know that lives

around here. Councilman Snyder said I see a man leave early up on

the alley behind my place in a red truck. Councilman Noll said that is

Wayne Schell and he works for Kinsley. Councilman Snyder said

okay anything else under secretary’s report?

Unfinished Business

Meeting Councilman Snyder said I did have my meeting with the codifiers.

with They said give them about forty five days and they’ll have the

Codifiers preliminary manuscript back to us.

Councilman Snyder asked anything else for unfinished business?

New Business

Recycle Councilman Snyder said you can recycle phone books now through

Phone October 29th. Drop off center at any of the drop centers and education

Books center, didn’t specify any particular one.

YCBA Councilman Snyder said York County Boroughs Association is holding

Dinner their dinner and 2009 meeting on September 24 beginning at 6:30PM.

Suppose to RSVP if you are planning on going.

PSAB Councilman Snyder said Pennsylvania State Association of Boroughs

100th is looking for municipalities, they’re celebrating they’re 100th

Anniversary in 2011. Looking for municipalities to send in photographs of their

buildings, historical structures in their borough, photos of council,

police department, staff. And that’s all I had.

YCED Councilman Allar said I have one other item, I mentioned it earlier

Attending I’d to invite some people from the York County Economic Development

Next Corporation. They have listed their goals as to support and retain existing

New Business(cont.) Page 45

Council businesses through our business retention expansion program,

Meeting grow jobs, and invest in cluster and industry sectors. Growth

investment and business recruitment and invest in the business

environment with infrastructure. I don’t think it would hurt to

at least listen to them. Tie in with the comp plan and infrastructure.

We’re going to have to start getting serious, we don’t have a lot

of advantages here, but we don’t won’t to lose them. Councilman

Snyder said we can listen to them. We’re going to have the ball,

YCED can lead us but not dribble too much to us.

Councilman Snyder asked anything else under new business?

Payment of the Bills

Councilman Snyder asked if everyone had an opportunity to look over the bill

list? There are additional bills to be added: Jerry Pickel:$180.00, Dallastown

Yoe Water Authority:$1109.43, Dallastown Yoe Water Authority $52.83,

Dallastown Yoe Water Authority $27.57, Dallastown Yoe Water Authority $22.41.

A motion was made by Councilman Myers to pay the bills as listed with the

additions. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns. All in favor. Councilman

Snyder said bills paid.


Councilman Allar made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 10:17PM. The motion

was seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor.