YOE BOROUGH PG. 1
150 NORTH MAPLE STREET
YOE, PA 17313
The regular monthly meeting of Yoe Borough Council was held on August 4, 2009 at
the Yoe Borough Municipal Building, 150 N. Maple Street, Yoe. The meeting was called to order
at 7:04 PM by Council President Sam Snyder with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Council members in attendance:
Others in attendance:
John Sanford, Mayor
Sandy Sterner, Secretary-Treasurer
Dana Shearer, Maintenance
Pete Solymos, Solicitor
Steve Malesker, Engineer
Melody Schaefer, Members 1st Federal Credit Union
Robert and Karen Morton, Residents
Councilman Snyder asked did everyone have an opportunity to look over the minutes from the prior meeting? Any additions or corrections? Councilman Allar asked I just have one comment, is there a
page twenty nine? The secretary said yes there was a page twenty nine. I will make sure you get it,
it probably didn’t print. Councilman Snyder said and that’s the one you wanted to correct wasn’t it?
Any additions or corrections? Councilman Snyder said I’ll abstain. If not do I have a motion to
accept. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to accept the minutes of the July 7, 2009 council
meeting. The motion was seconded by Councilman Myers. In favor of motion: Councilman Myers,
Councilman Manns, Councilman Noll and Councilman Howett. Councilman Snyder:abstained.
Councilman Snyder said minutes approved.
Councilman Snyder said at this time we were going to have our new council person sworn in but
the mayor had to run home for the oath. Bear with us and we’ll get back to you.
Councilman Snyder said unto visitors, first on the agenda is Ms. Schaefer.
Members Melody Schaefer said I spoke with Sandy and she asked me to put together a
1st a packet for you, and that’s what I have for you. When I spoke to Sandy on
the phone the other day, we discussed the fact that a couple of your checking
accounts that you plan to leave them there right now. However we did
list four separate accounts that you were looking at making some changes.
Correct me if I’m wrong. The liquid fuels checking account. I’m going to
refer to the two rate sheets that I have in here now. The top rate is the
certificate of deposit rate sheet and the bottom rate sheet is for checking
account/deposit sheet. What I’m going to do with the your liquid fuels
checking account is putting it into business checking product. Its based
on the number of paper transactions that you have going the account on
a monthly basis. We have a level here with up to a 1000 paper transactions
a month. Sandy, would you say you have up to a 1000 transactions a month?
The secretary said some months we have zero transactions. Its just an
account to use when you have state liquid account bills. It could be up to
two three four a year. Ms. Schaefer said then I will refer you to business
checking, level 1. That amount is up to 50 items at no charge on a monthly
basis. Interest would compounded from the account date. The secretary said
we have $.22 in the account. Ms. Schaefer said you don’t keep much in it.
The secretary said the state wants you to keep it in the account to get
as much interest as you can, transfer as you need it. Ms. Schaefer said
that’s what we’d be doing with your checking account. It sounds like
its exactly you need. The other three accounts you have with PLGIT right
now, the Capital Reserve Account. Sandy and I were discussing, this
is an account that you may be able to look at some longer investment
options. And I want to refer you to the certificate of deposit rate sheet
for some options that you would have with that one. We do have a
19 month certificate of deposit special if you look half way down that
rate sheet. The dividend rate is 1. 98% that may be good for part of those
funds. We also have an eleven month certificate right now at 1. 74%, with
an annual percentage yield of 1. 75%. As I was looking at your PLGIT
accounts, I believe your accounts going back to March. It appears you
were receiving less that 1% on those accounts at that time. Councilman
Allar said .5 /.6, I’m assuming they’ve gone down. Would you be willing
to lock into the accounts for any longer period of time? Say nineteen months?
Visitors(cont.) Page 3
Or is that about the longest you would want to go with the Capital Reserve
fund? Councilman Snyder said I don’t think I’d like nineteen months.
Solicitor Solymos said not more than a year. Ms. Schaefer said okay,
we have two options for you. We have a no penalty certificate of deposit,
nine months at the bottom of the page. How the nine month certificate
would work, it has a minimum balance requirement of $5000.00, we’re
guaranteeing you this rate for the next nine months. You can withdraw
money at any dollar amount and transfer it into another account. That you
can write a check off it, with no penalty. If rates happen to go up, you
can transfer it into a higher rate no penalty certificate. If rates happen to
go down, we’re still guaranteeing that rate for nine months. If you would
like to keep part of that Capital Reserve fund liquid, that is what I’d
suggest. If you’d like to lock some of it in for a longer period of time,
we have an 11 month certificate right now. These rates are subject to
change, obviously at any time. As soon as you lock into it, that is your
rate. What I would suggest is a portion to put into the no penalty certificate,
the remainder lock it in for a period of time. We have certificate specials
under one year. Councilman Noll said with the nine month no penalty,
we can open that with a minimum of $5000.00. Ms. Schaefer said yes, if
you fall below the $5000.00, we’re not going to charge you a penalty, we
just ask that you close that and put it into a checking account. The secretary
said I don’t think the Capital Reserve Fund ever dipped below $5000.00 in
the fourteen and half years that I’ve been here. We have around $70,000.00
in that account. Ms. Schaefer said it would be up to you on how much of
that you would want. The secretary said can you add to that any time during
that period of time. We get our cable franchise fee, quarterly. Can I put that
money in there any time anytime, or does that not work. Ms. Schaefer said
how much do you get at a time? Is it over $5000.00? What I’d suggest under
the account is to open a savings account, to add to that? Councilman Snyder
said unless you catch in and open up another one. The secretary said you
don’t want to do that every three months. Councilman Snyder said but
with the cable franchise. The secretary said I get a check every three months,
you made it that way in the new contract, its every quarter. Ms. Schaefer asked
how much do you get? The secretary said its about $2500.00 to $3000.00 and
what I do I just put it into the capital reserve fund now. That is the way its
suppose to be put in. That’s our long term savings really, the Capital Reserve
Fund is. Ms. Schaefer said what we can do is, under the Capital Reserve fund
account have a savings or money market account. That you can put those
funds in until the certificate comes due. The secretary said I will talk to you
about that. Ms. Schaefer said that would be very easy to do. The two other
accounts, the General Fund account and the State Road Fund account. We
Visitors(cont.) Page 4
were looking at shorter term investment options for them. Are these ones
that you will add to at a regular basis as well. The State Road fund yearly,
the General Fund I haven’t for a long time. But that is listed on our budget
as part of our cash, that has to be available at any time if we get below of
what we need to operate the borough. Ms. Schaefer said absolutely. What
I’d suggest for both of those, nine month no penalty CD. If you are not
going to be adding to it, or adding to it once a year. The certificate is
appropriate for you, you know what rate you have. It doesn’t appear
that you will be going below $5000.00. The secretary said unless we have
to, because the General Fund is our emergency cash account. Councilman
Snyder said with the state road. The secretary said we can’t dip below
$5000.00 in the state road, because you have keep money in there for
equipment. It’s the General fund one, that would be the one that might
have potential there. Ms. Schaefer said absolutely. Councilman Snyder
said we can name these, like State Road CD, General Fund CD. Ms.
Schaefer said what we’d be doing for you, is establishing numbers for
you for at least four separate accounts. And they would be titled
Borough of Yoe, underneath it would be Liquid Fuels, a checking
account. Then Borough of Yoe, subtitled Capital Reserve Account,
underneath will be everything associated with the account, a non
penalty nine month CD and an eleven month CD and have a money
management account available to add all those accounts too. It will
show all underneath. The secretary said that will be good. Ms.
Schaefer do you use online services. The secretary said no. Ms.
Schaefer said we can show you how to do that, its easy to show.
Again under the General Fund, if you want to put as much in the
CD we could have a savings account available as well. Under that so
that if you did get funds in, you could put it in then. The state road
fund as well, they’d be all separate. The secretary said I’d have to
a separate fund for the state road as well, I couldn’t put my check
right into the CD. I get the yearly check. Ms. Schaefer said how
much do you get. The secretary said around $19,000.00. Ms. Schaefer
said we can do one of two things. If the rate of the CD is higher than
the year you establish it, take it all and add it together into the higher
CD. Okay. Its all still under one member number. So its all grid together.
So you know what accounts go together. Councilman Myers said could
we combine the money to get a higher budget, to get money budgeted.
The secretary said liquid fuels no. But the Capital Reserve and the General
Fund is your money to do with what you want without reservations.
Councilman Myers said I was just thinking instead of having a whole
bunch of CDs, we could combine some under one line item, instead of
having $20,000.00 under one account, $20,000.00 under another account.
Visitors(cont.) Page 5
Obviously we’d make more money with $40,000.00. Ms. Schaefer said
it all washes out in the end whether you put $20,000.00 here and $20,000.00
there. Now some of our certificates have a tiered interest rate, but with
the no penalty, if you have $20,000.00 in one account and $20,000.00 in
the other, you’re earning the same interest rate on both. So effectively its
the same, its what is affective for you as far as bookkeeping. Probably
would be easier for my general fund because by the time budget hits,
I can guesstimate what the interest is for the rest of the year. We will be
able to add it to the beginning balance. Councilman Myers said trying
to make a couple bucks. Ms. Schaefer said right now, if you are looking
at the twelve month CD, there would be a penalty for taking that out. Right
now with the special we have with the eleven month you’d be better off
with that one. Now those specials can change at any time but once you open
up your CD you will have it for eleven months. Councilman Snyder said if
we want to go with this, why don’t we make the resolution and have the
treasury put it in the accounts. I know we’re talking about splitting some
up on the Capital Reserve between the fixed eleven month and the no
penalty. Just have the resolution read, the treasurer to open the accounts
in her best interest as she sees fit. The secretary said since I never used
the Capital Reserve, I think the last time you used it that was to buy
a truck, correct. How much do you want to put into something like that?
Are we going to need a truck in another year, are we going to need a
truck for four years. Councilman Snyder said you would know more
when it comes to budget time what we’d be looking at. The secretary
said Capital Reserve isn’t in the budget. Councilman Snyder said no,
you would know if we were looking at buying a new truck. I’d think
fifty/ fifty. The secretary said so to divide it in half. I just want to feel
comfortable, that I’m not putting too much in one thing and not enough
in the other. Okay split it half I can do that. Councilman Snyder said
with you being the treasurer, you know where the money is coming
and going anyways you know how much you have to pull out of the
savings account to cover bills. So I’d trust your judgement. The
secretary said your savings account is going to remain with Citizens
for general fund and your checking account. We have this park
renovation fund now. I’m not going through changing all that right
now. This is what I recommend that you start with, see how it
goes. Later on down on the road we’ll look at it. Councilman Snyder
said what I’m going to do, we have another resolution that we
need to do first, because I already numbered it twelve. This will
be resolution thirteen and Pete has to draw it up anyways. Because
I wasn’t sure if we were going to pass it or not. So he has to draw it
up so we’ll make that the next motion in line. Ms. Schaefer said
Visitors(cont.) Page 6
what I would need is exactly what you said, A resolution saying
who the authorizing signers will be on the account on the accounts
with Members First. Councilman Snyder said make a note of that
Pete, she also needs who the authorized signers will be. Solicitor
Solymos said do you send a card around. The secretary said we
have two that will be on the cards but the state liquid fuels fund
is the only one that requires two signatures. I only have to sign
for these other accounts myself. But Sam signs in my absence.
Ms. Schaefer said we will print the liquid fuels account with
two lines for signature. The secretary asked and you said there
would be no charge for checks? Ms. Schaefer said you need
to tell me what kind you need. The secretary asked can you come
down and see me next week. Sometime. Too much here. Ms.
Schaefer said this is my question, you will have two authorized
signers on the accounts correct? The secretary said on the signature
cards yes. Ms. Schaefer said do you want me to bring them with
me when I come, do you want to sign something tonight? The
secretary said come back, we have a lot to do tonight. Ms. Schaefer
said sounds good. The secretary said that would be Sam and me,
do you just need a copy of his driver’s license? Ms. Schaefer said
a copy of his driver’s license and social security number and his
signature. The secretary said we can do that. Ms. Schaefer said I’ll just
give you a call. The secretary said give me a call and I’ll coordinate it
with Sam then. Next week please. Councilman Allar said all the
employees and the officials can become members ? Ms. Schaefer said
you all can become members as well. Councilman Allar said at these
rates? Ms. Schaefer said absolutely. One condition that has changed
a little bit, I am the manager of Whiteford Road branch. I’m going
with your accounts, and would work with you if you bring your
accounts there. I’ll be there. I’ll bring some coupons for the grand
opening. Anyone have any more questions? The secretary said nice
presentation. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight.
Ms Schaefer said I’ll call you next week.
Swearing In of Councilman David Naylor
Councilman Snyder said next on our agenda is the swearing in. Mayor Sanford asked that Mr. Naylor raise his right hand and repeat after me. “ I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend, the
Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the Commonwealth. And I will discharge my
duties of my office with fidelity. Mayor Sanford said congratulations. Councilman Snyder said
welcome aboard. If we’re going too fast, just yell at us and we’ll come back to explain something.
Visitors(cont.) Page 7
Councilman Snyder said still back at visitors, next on the agenda is Mr. Morton. Mr. Morton said I think we have a little bit of a water problem, its more severe than I realized. I watched storms and how the water flows down Main Street. I also watched the water as they flushed the hydrant, the opening of the hydrant at 3rd and Main Streets. At the paraplegic spot that I have, it goes over the sidewalk in the 200
block of Main Street. What has happened is the road is now higher than what it was before. And in the
300 block, the water comes down the street, if the driveway is a little on the low side, the water goes up
over the sidewalk. We have a problem with it running over the sidewalks as you head up towards Johns
down to the wheelchair ramp. The water coming out of 3rd Street, on the other side, it meets in the middle, it just gets stronger down further, whether is a mile away. The street is higher than what it was
before. Dana and I stood together that night that they paved up through, I thought up there it might be okay,but after I saw it, we’ve got a problem. Councilman Allar asked so the water stays on the sidewalk? Mr. Morton said yes. Councilman Allar asked and this wasn’t happening like this before?
Mr. Shearer said I’m not sure how much a curb reveal was there. I know we did have some problems
on the other side of the street down lower with doing that. It seems like, we are getting further and further up the hill with it. A lot of problem is that we don’t catch the water until we get to Philadelphia.
We don’t have any inlets there to get it out of the street. I don’t how much comes down in front of your
house Seth. Councilman Noll said probably to the edge of the sidewalk. What remedies do we have, is
that a PENN DOT problem, because it’s a PENN DOT street. Mr. Shearer said storm water is going to
be our issue. Solicitor Solymos said PENN DOT will tell you, you figure it out, we can reimburse you.
Mr. Malesker said they weren’t suppose to change the profile of the road at all. What they milled off is
what they put back. Is what they said. Mr. Shearer said there’s spots where it’s a little higher. You can
go out there now and they came back with the milling head and actually notched in front of the storm inlets. It wasn’t as high as it was, it wasn’t that high before. You can tell that a little bit extra was added.
They had to come back and notch it out. Mr. Morton said I noticed at Broad Street that use to be kind of
low. And you put a post in to support the concrete cause it was maxed. Water wasn’t making it in. Councilman Allar said I guess we need to get pictures. Mr. Shearer said I can show you some video on
the computer, just by chance, on July 23rd we had a hard rain event. I grabbed the camera quick and went up to the park because we discussed about the storm water up there. And I did get some video
in that area. I have short session video from standing on Philadelphia looking out onto Main. Water
coming down, up on the sidewalk and washes out down through. Councilman Snyder said its like a river in front of my house. Mr. Shearer said in front of Sam’s house, at the ADA ramp by the fire hydrant,
I don’t know what else to do, unless put in more drains, the fact that it is further up the hill. Councilman
Snyder asked is there any way that you could I’m trying to look at this realistically. We have a problem.
I don’t think anyone is going to deny that. Now you got back to PENN DOT, we went that route before,
PENN DOT just put down a new road. They’re not going to want to do anything. If they do, do something, they’re going to get angry with us like they did last time and milled the street. And said fine you live with a bad road for the next twenty years. So knowing that’s what we’re looking at if we go
back to them. Is there another alternative? That from an engineering standpoint, we can go and say
take three inches around the curb and mill it ourselves or have someone mill it for us just enough that
we’re making a trench that would get our curb reveal back. Not mess up the macadam. But still use the
same drain systems that we have. Like Bob said, we lost the curb reveal the last time they paved it. Now they repaved it again, they were suppose to keep the same curb reveal. They didn’t at some spots. I also
Visitors(cont.) Page 8
know, as I’m turning this on to you, I think there is a state mandate coming out that PENN DOT has
go to intersection throughout the entire state and put in new handicapped ramps. Is that the time when we say, we don’t want facing, using that one up at Philadelphia, we don’t want it facing Philadelphia we want it facing towards Main Street so the water doesn’t jump onto the sidewalk. Mrs. Morton said its still coming in, its coming down the block. Councilman Snyder said that’s how it is down at our end too.
Mr. Morton said when PENN DOT did the work, it still is going over the wheelchair ramp and goes out
into Main Street. It still comes up through, high enough and hits the electric pole. Floods the sidewalk on Main Street. Mr. Malesker said I think one main thing, if the curb reveal did change, sounds like it
did in some areas than what it was suppose to. Then PENN DOT should fix the problem. The contractor should be under a one year performance bond, so he should come back and fix that. They could mill
near the curb line. And take some of that off and provide some grooves for the water to come down
through. We had some issues in Dallastown and that’s what they did. We tried to work with them about
some other stuff, and its been ten years and they still haven’t fixed problem. They actually had a pretty final walk through about three weeks ago, that they invited me too on behalf of Dallastown and I wasn’t aware of that issue. Otherwise I would have brought it up. They had seven, eight guys looking at the
project. They haven’t done the final yet so I think there is still an opportunity to meet with them.
Councilman Snyder said okay, if everyone is in agreement, since Steve already has the contacts with
Dallastown, has already met with them. Have Steve make the contacts on behalf of Yoe Borough,
before you have this final, he is already working with Dallastown. This has just come to my attention,
meet down here. Councilman Allar said take some measurements and see where they violated height
limits. So we know to point that out. Councilman Noll said did the plans have profile and curb reveal?
Councilman Snyder said I think it did, didn’t it, there were like forty some pages. Mr. Malesker said
I don’t know if it showed curb reveal. Mr. Shearer said I don’t know if it did or not. Councilman Allar said I’m assuming that we have some factual argument. Councilman Snyder asked Dana do you want
to look into that and get with Steve. Matter of fact, if you want set up the meeting or talk to PENN DOT,
get to Dana and say this is the date I’m going to be doing it so he has a day or two to get the information
you require. If not have them here and see what we do from there. Mr. Malesker said I doubt if the
curb reveals were actually on there. Councilman Snyder said they have to be somewhere because they have to know what they’re maintaining. Councilman Noll said not necessarily exist, all varying levels.
Mr. Malesker said would have had done a base, gutterline profile to do that. I think their philosophy was if they take two inches off they put two inches back. Mr. Shearer said that was pretty much what they were going for. Councilman Snyder said they can’t just lay two inches there. Mr. Shearer said when you’re laying asphalt down, I mean, the guy is laying it. Councilman Howett said on this side of the side of the hill when they did their cut, if its three inches with a gutter, then it pop up to that. It never changed it went right up the gutterline seam. About two to three inches at that drain. That is how they did the hill.
I thought that was the way they did all of it, maybe they didn’t get into it. Made it basic. Mr. Shearer said they milled the curb off at my house. Councilman Snyder said that is good point there, if they milled the curb off. Right there is a good point, they didn’t do what they were suppose to. Mr. Malesker
said they should have sent something to Yoe Borough to be part of that walk through. I don’t know if you guys got anything. The secretary said not that I saw. Mr. Shearer said the main thing that we got on the project was getting that last set of plans. Councilman Snyder said they didn’t want to hear from us because we had that spring water issue. Mr. Malesker said that is what I brought up since I had them there. Speaking on behalf of Yoe Borough, we do have that issue with that spring there. So the guy
Visitors(cont) Page 9
there actually called Terry Sprenkle. Said they would look at it. Let’s not talk about that here, you work
with Terry Sprenkle on that and get that looked at. They didn’t realize that that was the problem there.
They said when they did their walk down it wasn’t there, two years ago. Councilman Snyder said I can see how we get invited to walk throughs. A motion was made by Councilman Allar to have Steve to proceed representing Yoe Borough on that issue and get with whomever you need to, to get information
Dana or we may have here on file. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried. Thanks for coming. Mr. Morton said this winter when they plow the roads. I see salt on the sidewalk and we’ll need new sidewalks. Councilman Snyder said I seen that at the last storm we had and I saw how its now hitting up against the telephone poles, I was thinking
that its not going to take much to erode those things away and we’re going to have another problem. Cause it did, it looked like that water was easily jumping up two feet. Mr. Morton said a few years they picked the water running from Third Street across Elm. The ground washed out. They put a culvert in the street because the ground washing out. A portion of the storm drain is there. We were out cutting that drain open all the way. Not enough water is being captured as it is running down the hill. Councilman Snyder said thanks for coming tonight. Councilman Myers said for the council members that don’t know, Bob Morton and his wife have always been good community minded people. Bob was Council President for many years and also was President of the Fire Department. Karen was Sewer Authority. Mrs. Morton said still is. A lot council members don’t know. Thank you.
Councilman Snyder said on the agenda, the next thing we had was at 7:30PM, we’re go right into Solicitor’s report then. Was 7:30 adoption for the Flood Plain Ordinance. There was a slight miscommunication as to if the ordinance was advertised or not. They actually sent an ad to Sandy for review. When I heard we got the ad, that it was being advertised. The secretary said that isn’t what the cover letter said. Councilman Snyder said but that is how I took it when we got the ad for the flood ordinance. So I never told her to tell him its fine for adoption. And then, which actually works out for
our advantage, C. S. Davidson has been johnny on the spot with the comments from county planning and loy and behold by the twenty ninth or thirtieth of this month, we have the updated lastest and greatest revision which included the county’s comments. That is where we find out it was never advertised in the first place, so we put the screws to everything and said hold up, we still have time,
we will re-advertise for the September meeting and now we’ll actually take into account the comments that York County had and only have to advertise one time, we don’t have to do any amendments. So
that it actually works to our benefit. So that is why we didn’t hold up the meeting for that. So that is on the to do list for next month. Solicitor Solymos said let me further explain this, I sent it down to Sandy, saying we’ve prepared it and its ready to go. My fault I didn’t check that it wasn’t sent to the courthouse.
Councilman Snyder said it works out cause. Solicitor Solymos said I should have checked up on staffers,
usually what happens I do it, when it needs to be done immediately and therefore I hand it to some one,
get it today, tomorrow. But this time I gave it to someone, with a week and half to get it advertised. My fault. The secretary said I didn’t call you because it said I will advertise it the week of July 13th , so I
figured it would be done. And I don’t get the advertisement until. Solicitor Solymos said I should have followed up and said did you read that memorandum.
Resolution 2009-12 Councilman Snyder said what was discussed at last month’s council, which I read
over the minutes so I got the gist of it. Resolution 2009-12 for the Borough
Council entering into the contracts for Flagger Force. A motion to resolve
Resolution 2009-12 was made by Councilman Myers. The motion was seconded
by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.
Councilman Snyder signed the contract also.
Resolution 2009-13 Councilman Snyder said of course is to enter in with Members 1st Federal Credit Union, for the Secretary-Treasurer to move the four accounts that were discussed,
in the appropriate amount that she deems appropriate. And you do the official
wording. A motion to resolve Resolution 2009-13 was made by Councilman
Allar. The motion was seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor.
Councilman Snyder said so be it resolved.
Chronister Solicitor Solymos said lets talk about Chronister. I spoke to the other attorney,
Matter obviously you know I was ill, we had it scheduled one time. Matter of fact, I was
ill, we had it scheduled twice. When we had it scheduled the third time, Mr.
Chronister thought he might get ill, so. Anyways. I waited I found out from
Mr. Desinee that the lawyers have five days available. And mainly this is for
Tom and Sam, these are the dates 27 and 28 of August, that is a Thursday
and Friday in the morning or 1, 2, 3 September. You don’t have to give me
answer now. Look at your calendars, see how that goes. I will call Jason
and see how that works with him and then we’ll set it up with the arbritrators.
Mr. Malesker said Jason is out to the seventeenth. Solicitor Solymos said
when is he getting married? Mr. Malesker said he got married on Saturday,
he is on his honeymoon right now. Solicitor Solymos said he’s out until
the seventeenth? Okay. Councilman Snyder said he wouldn’t be able to
get you an answer until then. Solicitor Solymos said I will drop him a line.
I knew he was getting married wasn’t sure if it was September or August.
So that is the status on Chronister, we’re pretty much been ready to go on
Appeal Solicitor Solymos said for your request we appealed the Bowser decision.
of Bowser It is here, you may review it. The secretary said we just got the appeal
Decision of the Bowser decision. Solicitor Solymos said with regard to the Bowser
application for his particular piece of property. We appealed the decision,
of the zoning hearing board per your request. That appeal was filed on
the 31st, timely at the prothonotary’s office through the Commonwealth,
will now send, what is called a precipe, to turn the record to the borough.
The secretary said I just got a registered mail notice from the prothonotary’s
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 11
office today, I’ll pick it up tomorrow. Gives me twenty days to put together
to produce record. I think I have most of the reproduced record already.
At least I have copy. Do you need to fax it over. I probably have it copied.
I have the zoning ordinance. The secretary asked should I call you and tell
you what it is and send it to me. Solicitor Solymos said then technically
the municipality has twenty days to submit its record which includes a
transcript of the proceedings. You are going to have to order it a transcript
of the proceedings. The secretary asked I call the stenographer, or do
I have to call Hoffmeyer. Solicitor Solymos said you call the stenographer,
to get it. You will have to call the Hoffmeyer office to find who the stenographer
was. We’ll take care of that. So you have some feel of what we’re doing here,
and what the concern of the municipality is, a building was built, a permit was
issued for a building which was a multi tenant occupancy, that was allowed in
the zone by special exception. It met all the criteria for the grant of that special
exception in the zone on the lot it was on. It can still be used as that, there was
a valid permit issued for that. And that is a permit that was requested by Mr.
Bowser with a backup letter by Mr. Bowser. Which was helpful to us for our
records. Going chapter and verse, section by the ordinance of section, showing
why he is entitled to that use. Mr. Bowser then somewhere during the course
of these proceedings, he decided that he either want to condoize it or sell
both sides as two separate units,subdivide it down the middle on a party wall.
Well now that’s a different type of use. As defined by our ordinance. That’s
not the use he got a permit to do. There were a lot of things he needed variances
for, he went in and asked for variances. And the zoning hearing board said you don’t really need a variance. A variance is just a request to modify change,
your ordinance for me, because I have a hardship. Generally speaking, variances
are quite difficult to get. Sometimes a municipality, through its own action, buys
a piece of property. Which normally would not be entitled haver vari, what I mean
they’re stuck with it. There’s two ways that a municipality, that, that can
happen to a municipality. The first is where the municipality does nothing. And
they allow a landowner to do something in perpetuity over years and years and
years, and the landowner is acting legitimate and thinks he has a right. We had
one in Springfield Township years ago, a guy came for a permit for a garage,
a three car garage. We didn’t realize that the doors were sixteen feet. When he
said a three car garage on a suburban home, he meant repair garage. The
municipality thought a regular garage. He did it for ten years. In fact he did
some work on some of the supervisor cars in that municipality. Supervisors
changed, they tried to shut him down, actually did. That is what is called a
variance by astople. Municipalities that stop it, you can’t come in and say
they can’t do it, because you’ve let them do it. That’s not the issue in this case.
There’s another way, where you issue a permit in error, and someone relies
on that permit, and builds his McDonalds in a residential zone. And the
municipality doesn’t appeal for more than thirty days. This guy has spent
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 12
a ton of dough. And then the municipality comes back and says oops sorry
guys we didn’t mean to do that, my bad I didn’t want to do that. Then this
land owner has a vested right, I have a right from the get go. The zoning
hearing board with regards to Todd’s application said, he had a vested right
to subdivide and therefore get all those variances. Because that’s what the
municipality gave him a permit for. Its my legal opinion, that the municipality
didn’t get him a permit to do that. He acquired no vested right. He changed
the use. If he had a vested right to run a ma and pa grocery store, selling ice cream
out a back window on 400 square feet, you don’t have a vested right to put
in a McDonalds. Even though there is some similarities between the uses. There
are similarities between these uses but they are different. In my opinion, he
acquired no vested right to go forward. So in the alternative, he says alright I do
need a variance. And our answer to the variance issues are you don’t, you may
need a variance but you can’t get a variance because you created the hardship of
which you complain. You’re the one that built this building, for one use, and then
come back and change your mind. Its not our fault. That’s the self created
hardship, of which you’re not allowed relief. That’s what we’re doing with that
case. What happens is, once the municipality on behalf of the zoning hearing
board files the record, I’ve got fifteen days to file a brief in support. I can request
two things, additional testimony, which I wouldn’t, and oral argument before
the court. Of which I won’t unless you tell me to. Cause I think we can do it,
just on the briefs. I don’t think we do it on the briefs. I don’t think there’s any
overly complicated on this matter. The zoning hearing board, I just don’t, from
reading the findings of fact that they handed down,just didn’t see what had
happened here. It was well presented on the other side to avoid the municipality
looking that way. The way I feel it should have. That’s the status with that.
Councilman Snyder said while we are still on the Bowser issue, let the record
be quite clear, that the appeal was based on motions made previously. And Mr.
Naylor did not take the oath of office for this council position until tonight.
The appeal had already been prefiled. So there is no improprieties or misgivings.
It did come to our attention when we were going over this, that Mr. Naylor did
speak out against the variance at the hearing. So there is no conflict of interest
with Mr. Naylor as far as this action, this appeal. Solicitor Solymos said and
for future records, Mr. Naylor. There would have been nothing wrong with you
appearing before the zoning hearing board or appearing before the zoning hearing
board on a matter that concerns you in the future. So long as you do not come
back in here, in the board, and take a motion to either vote against or in favor of
something that the municipality is doing with regard to a matter in which you
had a personal interest. Councilman Naylor said okay. Councilman Noll said
question on all that. You’ve looked at everything. And I believe from what I
understand that our zoning board lawyer, Mr. Buzzendore. Actually was part
of the reason we are doing this appeal because I don’t think he understood what
was going on. Is there anything we should be doing as a municipality, because
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 13
I believe he gave the zoning hearing board bad information. Solicitor Solymos
said well tragically only the zoning hearing board can select its solicitor to hire
and or fire. Councilman Noll said okay. Councilman Snyder said unfortunately
when I talked to Patti McGonagle, she thinks the sun rises and sets on Mr.
Buzzendore. That this whole thing, is because council did not make them aware
of our displeasure in what was going one. I said, well Patti, we can not tell you
because, there were issues like the fact they didn’t know that the subdivisions
had already been denied by the borough. And he was coming in thinking, he
could somehow get the variances, and then we’d be okay with it. And its like.
We can’t. Councilman Noll said we’re not legally allowed to do that. Councilman
Snyder said we can’t, we’re not allowed to do that. Solicitor Solymos said and
there were some patent misstatements that were made. Let’s not mistake it,
inaccuracies. Councilman Noll said I didn’t know if we had any grounds for
the way he’s appointed. Solicitor Solymos said the way he’s appointed, now
that doesn’t preclude anyone from approaching individual members and saying
the board is unhappy and this is the reason they are unhappy. I think that we
would look at other findings of fact handed down from other solicitors, myself
excluded for the current moment, and look at how findings of fact are drawn
versus what you have here. I’m sorry, it cost you money, because I had to
read it three or four times before I understood or at least before I thought I
understood what it was going to say. Unfortunately it doesn’t give you a very
clear history of what had happened. The whole idea of findings of fact is
to illuminate for you what the heck went on. That’s neither here nor there.
I think you’ve got a real good shot at it. Councilman Noll said thank you.
Uncertified Solicitor Solymos said and the only other thing is I haven’t gotten back to you,
Buildings Seth on the codes issues. Councilman Noll said on the uncertified buildings.
Solicitor Solymos said correct. But I will, I’ll give you a call this week, we’ll
either do it then or set a time. And I’ll get that back to council for their review
for the next meeting. And that’s all that have.
FYI on Mill Solicitor Solymos said you did put at my council place a letter on Mill Creek.
Creek I guess it was just a FYI letter. Councilman Snyder said yes.
Vacation Councilman Snyder said I’ll make it short and sweet. When I spoke with Mr.
Of Alley Naylor prior to him tonight, sometime last week I think. That I had an
opportunity to talk to him. And bringing up the issue of the vacation of the
alley, one thing that Mr. Naylor brought to may attention, which I thought
was very admirable at the time. He said that as of this moment, he felt he
was not going to pursue any further legal action or anything on trying to
acquire the alley. That he did not want, his position to come on council,
be tainted in any way thinking there was alterative motive. I commend
you on that one. Cause I think even my own personal with you, that people
Solicitor’s Report(cont.) Page 14
get on council for their own personal agendas and that. There is no doubt then,
no one can say anything negative about you. Councilman Naylor said I just
wanted to have a clean plate starting here and no doubts. Solicitor Solymos
said I think that is good and I talked to your lawyer and he is doing some
paperwork that would cause the action to be withdrawn. And that would
put it back on hold. Frankly that doesn’t keep you on some date in the future,
even if you don’t take action, like I told you at the last meeting. Coming
back to the board again, council again, and say look maybe we ought to
look at the vacation of this alley.
Councilman Snyder said now I’m starting to get under the engineer. I had this marked solicitor/engineer.
FEMA Councilman Snyder said we did receive notice from FEMA that the flood
insurance study and flood insurance rate map evidently has not changed as
far as, the map itself. And therefore Yoe Borough should use the preliminary
and or revised preliminary copies of the firm, for the basis of adopting the
required flood plain management ordinance. From the last revision. We’re
suppose to be using this last revision as. Councilman Noll said the preliminary
has been revised but hasn’t changed. Mayor Sanford said I have copies of it
County’s Councilman Snyder said we did receive the county’s comments on the flood plain
Comments ordinance which now be addressed next month.
Codorus Councilman Snyder said the last thing that I had, was this letter from Codorus
Creek Creek on the watershed for the easement that was going out to the Army Corps
Letter of Engineers. And hopefully that is going to meet our requirement under that
cease and desist order of which point under the $27,500.00. After that if
there is no other comments for Pete we can move into engineer. So he can
leave. This is just one of these to let him know, if this meets all of our
requirements, he doesn’t have to worry about the fine. Anybody else
have anything for Pete?
Dates Councilman Snyder said while I was in there, Tom, between you and me
should I tell him between that Thursday and Friday, 27th and 28th or just
go to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Councilman Allar said I’d like to check on those
dates. I can call Pete then. Anything else for the solicitor?
Engineer’s Report Page 15
Letter Mr.Malesker said since the last meeting we did get a letter from DEP regarding the
from DEP impoundment area restoration. They are going to allow a waiver for the maintenance
work there. They are not going require a new permit to be open for that, so that is
good news. They’re waiting for Mike Dantko to sign off on it, in case he has any
conditions that he wants to make as part of it. So that is good news. So we did contact
Growing Greener about that, just to make sure the funding is still there. Wayne Lingle
said that the funds are reserved for that project and once we get the technical letter
from Dantko on that sent to them, it’s a go. So the funding will be there.
Mitigation Mr. Malesker said as far as the mitigation goes, Tom do you want talk about the
meeting with York Township. Councilman Noll said I went to the meeting, spent
two and half hours with York Township to get a no decision. Basically had to
meet with their staff, Bob Miller, Debra Hatley out on site. Talked to them, I think
the commissioners maybe a little confused between what’s going on there. They
seemed to get into another issue that they’re looking out, with the intersection down
below of proposed wetlands that have to be mitigated. Which we didn’t discuss,
but that’s what they decided to do. So we’re going back on August 11th, to represent
at their meeting with their representatives. Everyone is on the same page. Jake was
down as well. That should be there, could be there, isn’t a problem that’s going to
interfere with the intersection with the location. The current wetlands is a lot further
back so we’re hoping to get a decision for sure on the 11th. We will see. They do
know the timetable, they do know everything we have to do and they seem unconcerned
about it. Mr. Malesker asked what was the decision that night. Councilman Noll said
Elizabeth was extremely helpful. Try to push them along, at least to get them to talk.
Councilman Allar said another key player at the meeting as well, I know it’s a very
strong bond, what we’re trying to do is going to give them more options. And have
less than an impact on that intersection. We have not found anyone in York Township
that can come up with any reason, against doing what we proposed. Councilman
Noll said I expect Elizabeth to set up the meeting, both of them will be at the meeting,
be available and will probably speak on our behalf. Its just taking longer that we
thought, its all good, no quick answer. Councilman Allar said going back to recap
a little bit, in the Corps of Engineer letter, there were three requirements. One was
identification of a wetland mitigation site. Two was a wetland mitigation plan. Three
a draft conservation easement by a long term inspection at the wetland mitigation
site. Two and three, can not be responded too until we respond to number one.
Where are we going to put the wetland? We have over the last couple weeks with
Jake, his response, you should all have copies in front of you. Codorus Creek
Watershed project. This was not done I had Jake actually talk to Mike. And
apparently a very simple proposal is all Mike is looking for. Because he can. Jake
feels, I don’t want a lot of people calling Dantko, so we’re trying to work this through
one. Jake feels that this is satisfactory to respond to the first item in the Corps of
Engineer letter. Once Dantko comes back to this and says yes that is appropriate.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 16
Then you can deal with items two and three. So as far as points two and three,
the, again, we have three different players, Corps of Engineers, Yoe Borough
and York Township. York Township is going to be putting out a contract for
the Mill Creek Preserve. Sometime between now and the end of the year. Its
a design built contract. If everyone knows what that is. One contract will be
do the design and construction, one contract. They will be putting this out for
the Mill Creek Preserve. We will then have a project, added on to that with
specifications. Which will be part of the wetland mitigation. Which is item
number two in Dantko’s letter. Now Dantko is coming down the week of the
17th for a field trip at the Mill Creek Preserve. He has to do that because of what
York Township is doing. Obviously I’m going to be out there and so forth. I
hope to get a least an oral confirmation that he’s in agreement with our proposal
to transplant wetland into the location of the preserve. Once he gives that, then
we go onto the next step, which is the mitigation plan and the specs for the
York Township contract. This proposal here, will meet the other items until
he gets back to us. Mr. Malesker said further on that, I did speak with Rettew.
In regarding the conservation easement and they are willing to provide that
easement at no cost to the borough. They realize that they didn’t live up to
their end of the contract the first time. So they will do that. I asked them
if they would do the as builts also. They said no, they would not do anything
that is beyond the scope of the initial contract. Councilman Allar said on that
point, I am sure somewhere in the file, we have a copy of the Rettew contract.
I can’t believe that we did not specify and include that in their proposal.
It that’s in the contract, we need to get a copy back to them, so they can see
they need to do the as built, they are in violation of the contract. That needs
to be reviewed, its either with the Rettew or the Holley contract. Mr. Malesker
said it says in the letter of violation that the as builts were never received.
Councilman Allar said well we know that but Rettew is already that they’re
not done. I believe someone said that, either you or Jason. Mr. Malesker said
they acknowledged that they didn’t do that conservation easement. I thought
that one time you told me that they acknowledged that. Mr. Malesker said the
person I talked to said it wasn’t in there scope. Councilman Allar said that’s
the same thing as saying they didn’t do it. What I’m saying is I don’t know
how we could have signed a contract without that requirement. Councilman
Snyder said if that would have been a requirement for the permit, Dantko is
now saying we didn’t do. That would have been a requirement for the CDBG
money right up front, because CDBG wouldn’t have let that one slipped
through. Councilman Allar said its in someones, its in Holleys or Rettews.
I don’t know. I’m going to look through my file. Councilman Snyder said
there were like four revisions, three or four revisions. We can start going
through it. Mr. Malesker said that would be good because if anything,
it comes off of the estimate that I gave you. Councilman Naylor said
Engineer’s Report (cont.) Page 17
I remember something else, that I forgot regarding wetlands, paying into
a fund. Councilman Allar said I looked into that. If we pay into a fund,
we don’t have to deal with York Township, we don’t have deal with
inspections, easement, as builts, all that kind of thing. The problem is
its only good for up to a ½ acre, an ½ acre and below for federal funds.
Councilman Naylor asked what kind of price tag do they put on that?
Councilman Allar said I didn’t go that far because it stopped. Councilman
Snyder asked, you can’t buy two ½ acres? Councilman Allar said I don’t
know. I think Yoe Borough was screwed again. Councilman Naylor said
that would have been a nice option. Councilman Allar said it would
have been, it probably saved us $20,000.00. The area that is really in
question is in the upper basin. The other area already has wetlands functioning.
If Dantko would have come down, he would have known that. Then we
would have needed up to a ¼ acre. Councilman Snyder said well technically
we have two different wetlands anyways. Councilman Allar said once he
saw them you can see the letter, we have .76 to deal with. I was only not for
that visit. Councilman Snyder said you can check your work, I can go through
this file again here. The secretary said its all in that box. Mr. Malesker said
do you need me to come down when he comes down? Councilman Allar said
let me call you. You probably should be there. I don’t know how, if Jake
feels comfortable. See he is going to bid on this for York Township under his
ECCO Construction. He has to make sure that he is independent with all he
has to deal with and so on. I don’t know how comfortable he is, if he’s
comfortable to work on the mitigation plan, which is what I prefer. Mr.
Malesker said right. Councilman Allar said he knows Mike, he knows what
Mike’s going to look at. It also means on the mitigation plan, basically the
specifications is what he is bidding on. I don’t know where the construction
is. If he is comfortable in doing that, then your service is really not needed but
if not, then it will all come back to you. I told him when I talked to him today,
he talked about Dantko today, that its something to think about when Dantko
comes down. I’ll know in a week or so. Mr. Malesker said I guess, if he
feels bad, then he knows that he can work with us. Councilman Allar said
yeah, cause this probably the first one that he has done. I don’t know if
he’s done any. Mr. Malesker said in the scope that we laid out we had
planned on Jake doing the mitigation plan. Councilman Allar said well then
its up to him. Mr. Malesker said its up to him. Councilman Allar said I understand
Park Mr. Malesker said the next item here is the park project. We met with Sam, Seth
Project and Dana on July 15th regarding this, one thing we discussed was adding an
alternate to the stormwater piping adding an infiltration trench. So we included
that on the plans now. So that’s one sheet called Alternate 6A. It shows the trench,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 18
coming down with a basically it’s a stone trench, some areas have grass over it. There
are other areas where the stone is exposed for the water to directly get in. So there
would be some grading modifications. Based on this scenario, this would be, our
estimate would be around $11,000.00 for all this to be done, as opposed to the
$43,000.00. That we estimated for the series of pipes and inlets. So this will be
bid as an alternate plan. Councilman Snyder said when you say you plan on grading,
you’ll grade up on this upper end. Because as I was mentioning, there is times I’m
not sure if its in the winter more so than the summer, but the water is actually going
down on this side versus this side. Mr. Malesker said I think that is what Dana said.
Mr. Shearer said actually. Councilman Snyder asked or is it the other way around?
Mr. Shearer said actually when I was up there the other day, I wanted to get them
out but it didn’t work out, for people to see. The water during that storm, this was
the 23rd, it was pretty good rain, water was flowing over the lower spillway, basin
2. So give you an idea of how much flow it was. There was hardly any flow coming
to that east side of the tennis court. There was nothing coming off the hill at
Rexroth that I could see noticeable. Nothing really coming down that side. The
majority of the water was coming down the west side of the tennis court, on the
apartment side, it was coming off the backside of Winter’s property. Winters
up there, the siding contractor. It flows off the back of their lot down that edge.
Like I said I have a video in there, you can look at it. It was enough water, you
could stand there like a little kid and you could splash in it and make it fly. There
were actual puddles through there. Councilman Snyder said and that’s my only
concern that I had with going with this alternate. The way, if you look at the
way the storm drains are placed. I don’t know if you could, we’ll running out
of time to put back here on the other side. Councilman Noll said I think there
are two things with this, the first is there is a little general misunderstanding on
how this would mesh with our storm water ordinance. Correct me if I’m wrong
Steve, I know we talked about this. We’re trying to mitigate water coming
from another property, under the guidelines of the storm water ordinance,
we’re not mitigating water created on the site. Mr. Malekser said yeah, we’re
not doing any development per say in this area, so you don’t have to do
anything to treat anything that you’re improving. This is an off site issue.
Councilman Noll said so if we would do this, its an improvement its really
not a full plan and have to run through the whole storm water management
plan. I know there was some concern about that and with local residents.
I just wanted to make that clear and if anyone has any questions about it
now, before we discussed our options. Councilman Snyder said well and
not, that’s the concern. Because, are we doing something just to meet ordinance
which we’re putting all this money, $7000.00 of grading on a upper side of the
course where there is an actually water problem on the lower side. Councilman
Noll said on that same point, are we spending, should we even be putting any
of this in because is it in an issue that its coming off an adjoining property. That
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 19
we should be going after that property owner to resolve instead spending a lot of
money up at the park to solve an issue that’s not really ours. Councilman Naylor
said have them fix their own water problem and identify the problem. Councilman
Myers said the thing about water problems, that’s civil. Councilman Snyder said
and that’s the thing, Pete had told us before. Water goes where water wants, and
the uphill property owner has no responsibility to the downhill property owner.
Mr. Shearer said you have two large impervious surfaces there that are catching
water. Councilman Snyder said all I’m saying is, I like the idea, yeah its $40,000.00
to put those storm drains in. But you know at that point that you are catching all
that water and its going to go into our storm drains. Its being taken care of . For
us to try to go up and say, you take care of yours, we’re suing them in court, spending
thousand of dollars of legal fees trying to get them to take care of a problem. And
we have an opportunity here, which the placement of those storm drains actually
takes care of it on both side. Because you put that curbing in on the left side, that’ll
catch any of that impervious surface that we put in on the parking lot. And having
the storm drain on the lower side on that west side, you’re going to catch any of
that water that currently, that you witnessed, coming in on a heavy storm. And its all
going right there, and we’re catching it before it gets out unto the street. Councilman
Noll said I still think that even if you don’t you’re catching the same amount of
water. And we’re doing the same thing, for a heck of a lot less dollars. And the
other thing that concerns me about putting over $43,000.00 into this, is we know
that Rexroth owns this land, its going to be development at some point. We don’t
know when its going to be, three years he’s going to developed it, he’s going to
shift the water and everything else up there. And now we spent $43,000.00 to collect
nothing. Mr. Shearer said I disagree. You heard tonight one of the biggest issue you
have in this town, we do not collect storm water properly. Okay. You do not have
enough of a storm water systems or curbs, to channel the storm water that you have
now. You have two streets that come down to E. Philadelphia that are dumping
water. You have Philadelphia, all that water is collecting there, coming off the
force, you’re getting a lot of water off of that hill, no matter where its coming
from. You know, I don’t know we can do to collect Winters water. But they don’t
have any room up there to get rid of it. We can’t come back in and say, you got to
put pits in to get rid of that water. That water has to go somewhere, either it comes
out the back or it comes out the front. Its coming out front, then its running down
Wilson Court. And we’re moving the problem further. We’ve got to start catching
this water. Councilman Howett said if we’re going to look at it that way, then we
might as well take the $43,000.00 and dig up the sidewalk on Main Street and put
catch basins on Main Street. Cause if you want to start catching water, that’s our
biggest problem. I’m just, you know, you can sit here and hammer this corner
and hammer this corner, you know and once again, you don’t know what’s going
to happen in the future. You can’t base everything on that. Councilman Snyder
said well, no, I think and I think my only concern was, we know water is coming
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 20
down here and that’s a problem. And that is going to be caught with the storm water
inlets. There be an inlet right there. And there’s also be inlet right here and an inlet
right there and we’re going to catch any water that is possibly going to come off
of here. Otherwise you’re putting $11,000.00 in drainage up here that’s really not
going to catch anything. All I’m saying is that I like Seth’s original concept, when
he said that we got to start from the bottom and work up. And get this park to
where its stable and part of that is getting the infrastructure built up. And if we
put in that set of storm systems there we can put just about anything you want
in the future up in that park and that’s theory of storm pipes is going to catch it.
Even if we find in the problems, we have to bid this out this for next month. So
we’re going with what we got. But at the same point we may find out that those
silk socks are going to be too expensive to keep replacing so maybe two years
or three years we may want to build a trench and direct water that is coming
out there over on Philadelphia Street. The storm water system is right there to
collect it. I’m just saying you put the money into the basics right now. Cause
you know we have a problem because otherwise we are going to spend all this
money and to say that, of all people, Yoe Borough, to sit there and tell someone
that we’re not concerned about stormwater and we don’t want to handle it is
right. That. Councilman Noll asked, Steve can that trench be pulled over and
pick up some of that. Mr. Malesker said well there’s. Councilman Noll said
I don’t know where all the contours are. Mr. Malesker said not without
taking some else’s property. This is the boundary line right here that’s coming
down. This way to that trench, some kind of drainage on this property. Councilman
Noll said the biggest reason for the trench is the maintenancing issue. You have a lot
of water disbursing into the ground, cuts down the run off tremendously and you also
don’t have something that’s maintenance in perpetuity for the borough. Curbs get hit by
plows, I’m not saying that we should put curbs in I do agree with putting curbs in to
stabilize the street. Your pipes are another maintenance item. Looking at long term for
the borough, I know we need water controlling devices, but I want to make sure its
` smart maintenance way and no liability for the future. Councilman Allar said two things,
no one knows what the capacity is and we’re talking about adding more to that. We are
going to pour more water into the system probably is already maxed out. The lower end
of Main Street in a storm goes into the intersection, that water. If you think this is going
to solve it,you aren’t going to solve it. That’s point one. Point two, we only have
$200,000.00, we’re talking about something of a 3 to $50,000.00 fix. Now in my mind,
there’s something wrong with spending one dollar out of every four, to fix someone
elses stormwater. Should be putting into something for our own citizens. You say
stormwater is everyone’s problem, its still someone else’s problem. We’re never
going to get to use recreation bucks, from DCNR and CDBG. Councilman Snyder
said I know of one that we could. That is what I was talking to Dana about, we put
the money into what we can’t get grants for. All I know we’re spending thousands and
thousands of dollars on a dam because the borough supposedly has a storm water
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 21
problem, here we have an actual stormwater problem. Dana actually has footage of what
we just got washed out for within a week. And a trench system is actually on the wrong
side where the water is coming. At that point lets not put the $11,000.00, let’s not do
anything for the stormwater. But I’m telling you, when we have a person even coming
to council tonight complaining about the storm water. We’ve got to start putting it into
the storm water system. Councilman Allar said storm water coming off the road is what
he’s talking about. Councilman Snyder said the point is we have a storm water problem.
Councilman Allar said it’s at a higher point. Councilman Snyder said I live right there,
I see it. I guarantee what he is complaining about I have three times as much. Cause I’m
telling you the water up on my sidewalk was jumping that high. And it was coming
down Philadelphia Street, and it was coming down Main Street, because we’re getting
to the bottom of the hill. By the time it gets to the bottom of that hill the water is hitting
the pole like that. Councilman Myers said that’s not going to resolve this problem.
Councilman Snyder said that will catch. Councilman Myers said its going to catch it,
it going to take it down this alley. Councilman Snyder said but look at this, its catching
what is coming down Wilson Court and its also catching. Councilman Noll said Steve,
has anybody in the design of the pipe system, since we’re not changing the overall size
of what this is tying into. Do we create a problem downstream by running all that water
into, can’t get the water from the drains out to Main Street. Don’t want to create another
problem by solving one. Mr. Malesker said some of the water does make it to that system
under ground. Some does by pass it. Councilman Snyder said these are going to be tied
into that system so you’re actually taking water off the surface. Mr. Malesker said this
isn’t someone else’s stormwater, there are impervious areas, there is a lot of run off from
the impervious areas so, its not all. Councilman Allar said there is a collection area, it just
hasn’t been cleaned out. Mr. Malesker said right, there is one by the tennis courts.
Keep it mind too, CDBG was conditioned by, they realize there is a storm water issue
there, and to protect Philadelphia Street which was used by the low income residents of
Yoe Borough, they wanted to protect Philadelphia Street that’s why the CDBG money
was granted for the project. Councilman Noll said it comes down Philadelphia then
comes down Main Street is that correct, the storm water? Mr. Malesker said yes.
Councilman Noll asked did Jason ever calc to see all the additional pick up, for water
in that pipe to allow proper drainage on Main Street, what’s happening in front of Sam’s
house, in front of my house? Because if you fill that pipe to capacity, or change the
pipe size, diameter of it? That would be another concern that I would have, looking into
to get it into the groundwater and dissipate as much as possible. Councilman Myers asked
do you know what the size of the pipe will be? Do you remember? You and I looked at
that I remember. Mr. Shearer said about an eighteen inch pipe, judging at those pictures.
Councilman Myers said when you and I looked at it, it was a eighteen inch pipe. Mr.
Malesker said that’s a twenty four inch pipe there. Councilman Snyder said whatever is
tied in there in front of Floyd’s house. Mr. Malesker said there at Newton that is a twenty
four inch pipe going down the street. Councilman Snyder said the one there right in front
of his house, the box. Mr. Shearer said it is in front of his house and it goes across the
street. Councilman Snyder said that’s twenty four inch. Mr. Shearer said the inlets
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 22
from Philadelphia go across the street, a line comes down from Bob Morton’s, you
have the water come down to curb boxes on the upper side of Philadelphia they dump
in there. Where the T is, there is a manhole right there in the middle of intersection
of Philadelphia on the west side and it runs probably around four feet off the curb line
down the street comes into a twenty four inch plastic pipe. I asked you about at the
corner of Broad Street. The curb box on the other side of the street comes across its
about a three by three box, give or take maybe a little bit bigger, that the bottom is
washing out of. That goes back Broad, the alley back to W. Pennsylvania. Councilman
Snyder said I’m just saying that, those people that live at those apartments, they
were there complaining about all the water coming off of it. Instead of putting into
a pit, I also had a problem with the rock. We have a problems with the rocks in the
creek. Councilman Myers said I’ll tell you I have that type of drainage at the parks, with
stone and I love it, it works good. Less maintenance. You have to spray and you have to
clean it. That system, that works. Councilman Snyder said I’m just saying we can kill
couple of birds with one stone. With that drain system, the only thing I don’t like about it,
its in the wrong place. Councilman Allar said if I think it was because of Rexroth.
Councilman Snyder said that’s why that was put up, I said we have problems and its in
two different areas. Sometimes it comes over on that side, other times its coming down
between the apartments. None of that water is going to be collected in there. Guaranteed.
Councilman Allar said the biggest problem we have had and again in a year and a half
now, is water coming from Rexroth. Councilman Snyder said exactly. Councilman Allar
said that was about 85% of the water problem, that’s fixed. As Dana mentioned. The
water issue is solved. Mr. Malesker said Dana said there’s still water running down.
Councilman Snyder said there’s a tremendous amount. Councilman Noll said do we
have any opportunities to direct the water over to that side. I know we can’t put
infiltration system on that side because of the land issues. We could probably
find some other things. Mr. Malesker said there is going to be grading done up
here to get the water to go down this avenue. Some more could be done. Councilman
Noll said instead of $11,000.00 put $15,000.00 in to pick it up with grading then. I
do worry because I think of the major problems as to why we have so much water
on Main Street. We have a twenty four inch pipe for everything that that’s trying to
drain, there’s no way it will pick up all that water. That’s part of our problem that its
not going. Councilman Snyder said what also doesn’t help most of the drain if you
notice on Main Street are under the sidewalk. There not collecting anything. Nothing
is collecting on Main Street until its down in front of Floyds and Newton Alley that’s
when its collecting. Councilman Noll said until it slows down to a slow enough velocity.
Councilman Snyder said its underneath those sidewalks, I don’t know who designed
that stuff, it runs right passed it. Councilman Noll said there may be some opportunities
to mill channels in and I’ve also seen asphalt. Councilman Snyder said I’m just saying,
now theres a big sell on this for low income housing and how its going to help the
community because we’re tying in storm water, we have a storm water problem because
its eating away Philadelphia Street, that we’re going to have do something with. There’s
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 23
that much water coming off of it. And that’s after what Rexroth did what he did. So we
still have tremendous amount of water coming and with that storm drain system we
can pick up Wilson Court and we can pick up everything that is going to be coming
off the park. Everything because we have one on Wilson and one on Philly and another
one at the basketball courts and even one up Third. We’re going to collect it all.
Councilman Allar said that’s not even a system. We’re just putting into another property,
instead of having a problem, we’re have some other water come in. Water coming
out of the storm drains. Councilman Noll said spots at the inlets, of the original design,
some of them are actually in the yard correct. Mr. Malesker said yes, two of those.
Councilman Noll said because the other thing that I had noticed with yard inlets, and
that’s partly why I wanted to put in a trench. Over time you get a lot of wash, you
get a lot of velocity around those, within a very short period time, the water goes right
by them because you wash out the ground because its not a hard surface around those
boxes. And now you’ve got the top of you box up here and the water goes right by them.
It’s a big maintenance issue, you’ve got to make sure you’ve got that ground around it to
keep that flow. Even if you sunk it in. Councilman Snyder said my point is, this one isn’t
going to collect anything, anyways. There’s very little water coming in off of there. This
is where the water is coming, its coming down this way, it hits these pads and it runs
over this swale. This is the one that is going to collect. That’s the one that’s going to
collect. That’s what I’m saying, we’re putting all up here and there’s nothing that is
going to come of it. Councilman Noll said that’s why I’m saying if you can regrade
the swale. Councilman Allar said that’s what I was getting at, this around the volleyball
net is, if that’s re graded and shifted over. And if we’re going to do this, again, why
spend 25% of the whole amount of the money, when we can do it cheaper. Councilman
Snyder said because there are other avenues for more money. And like Seth said.
Councilman Allar said for what? Councilman Snyder said park equipment. The Keystone
Grant was that ever looked into, no. Councilman Allar said that’s matching. Councilman
Snyder said no its not its out right grant. Councilman Allar said I know. Councilman
Snyder said because we got that for the other playground equipment. Councilman Allar
said Steve, Seth tried to get Keystone for ADA for bathrooms. Councilman Snyder said
all I’m saying we don’t have the money to in our liquid fuels to be doing this kind
of road work especially when Steve and Dana get through with the rest of their thing
because the three projects we have coming up is going to take out more of our liquid
fuels than what we have, I guarantee. This is an opportunity that we can take care of
storm water, I think storm water should be a problem and we can still do these upgrades
at the park and accomplish what we want. Because I’m telling you, I see where the water
is coming, putting in that pit, especially if you try to direct that water over there. I don’t
even know if its going catch it all. I really don’t. I’m just saying, if its re graded are you
going to put that 10 foot bank to catch it all. Mr. Malesker said there is going to be some.
Councilman Snyder said over in here to keep any of this. Mr. Malesker said you would
have to re grade the whole back over to here, can insure that its going to come down
this way. Councilman Snyder said that’s my point. And even, at that point, I guess you
can make sure it doesn’t get on the pad. I just saying that we have an opportunity here.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 24
And Dana is there any drain whatsoever on Wilson Court. Mr. Shearer said no.
Councilman Snyder said none. Mr. Shearer said you do not collect storm water until
it hits Philadelphia. Councilman Snyder said and that’s down here. Councilman
Myers said and there’s no curbing or anything. Councilman Snyder said no.
And that’s what I’m saying, we have the opportunity to put in a drain here, a drain
here and a drain here. Which is going to collect anything off this new parking lot,
is going to come down there, will either hit here or its going to hit here or as it
spreads out its going to hit the both of them. Mr. Malesker said additionally with
the trench, we need the curbing to convey the water to the inlet. Curbside that
adds another $15,000.00. We had talked about running curbs all the way to that
inlet. Councilman Snyder said at that point it’s the same hit, it’s the same price.
Mr. Malesker said there is no curbing with the pipes and the inlets because the
water is being directed down through the pipe, if it comes down through the trench
you have to get this water down here to there. So you need curbing. Councilman
Snyder said so you’re spending basically the same amount of money. Mr. Malesker
said its cheaper. Its I guess that’s $25,000.00 to $26,000.00 total, its a lot cheaper.
Councilman Myers said how does that affect the homeowner with sidewalks.
Mr. Malesker said this would be paid for with CDBG money. Councilman
Myers said what about the sidewalk there? Mr. Malesker said there would be no
sidewalks there, we’re stopping the sidewalks. Councilman Myers said with
our ordinances with sidewalks, what’s going to be happening there. Councilman
Snyder said we’d just be putting curbing in, we could make them put a sidewalk
in. That’s what I’m saying you don’t need to do that with inlet boxes. I’m just saying
we’re actually able to solve so many problems with these inlet boxes versus what
we’re hoping to obtain with just the ditch. Councilman Myer said $40,000.00 verse,
how does that affect the project? Councilman Noll said we need to see the numbers
that come in. The other reason for putting the curbing in, I think Dana had a good point,
if we want people to use this, putting curbing in so we can get sidewalks in there.
I think we need to look at it at both ways, its partly storm water its, designed for
sidewalks. At that point we can ask the residents in that area by ordinance you
put sidewalks in. Councilman Snyder said but you can always require that, you can
put the storm drains in and still say you need to put your sidewalk in. I’m just
saying I know the problems coming off of Wilson Court, I know the problems
coming off that park. Dana now has seen the problems at this last storm which
wasn’t that big of a storm and while we have the money, I think we should do
it the proper way instead of trying to do it a cheap way. Because there are other
opportunities to get stuff done at the park. We need to build the infrastructure up
first. Councilman Noll said and I agree with that, I wouldn’t suggested a trench
if I didn’t think it wasn’t going to work. I think its just as effective. I think its
a lot of cheaper for maintenance. The biggest thing that we have to look at there
are a lot of ticking time bombs, between roads, bridges and other things, all we
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 25
need to do is add one more thing plus stack more upon it. I think we have to
be very careful of that unless Steve can tell me we can take all that water
and not affect anything downstream. I just want to be very cautious about that,
because water can come up somewhere else. And now we have another problem.
Councilman Allar said the water coming from Main Street, water is coming down.
Councilman Snyder said and that’s because we’re not getting it into the storm
system. Councilman Allar said the storm system, the storm system is filled to
capacity. Mr. Malesker said there’s too much volume coming down to go into
a single inlet, coming downhill into that inlet. Councilman Allar said that inlet
with all the pipes and all are filled to capacity, is it, I don’t know. But what I’m
saying is if its filled to capacity, water going right passed it and we’re going to
have storm drains filled up, going up Main Street. Councilman Noll said I think
we should spend money on storm water, I just want to make sure its spent properly,
that we don’t create more problems for ourselves. Its pretty much, the same,
look at the whole thing, not over taxing the system, I’d rather have a little extra
money up there at the park. Than have a lot of traffic, a lot of people, that stuff
goes over as you get further down Main Street, potential to go into basements
of houses is so much greater. I want to make sure, that is working. Mr. Malesker
said we’ll have it on paper, bids will come in, you’ll be able to compare what
one exactly to the other and look at the price. Councilman Myers said there’s
no trench at the tennis courts. Mr. Malesker said if we need to, we can extend this
grade. Councilman Myers said I have no problem with trenches I know they work.
This is effective. Councilman Naylor asked where is the property that Dana was
talking about. Winters property. Mr. Malekser said I think its right up here.
Councilman Myers said the old Eberly property. Mr. Shearer said yeah.
Councilman Snyder said its like up there. Mr. Shearer said right there, the water
is flowing off right there. Councilman Naylor said if you would have to cut
swale directly off the back of the tennis court. Mr. Shearer said you do, there’s
a hump right here, its actually swaled a little that way and a little that way towards
the courts. I guess originally this was, it comes down here. It starts right about here,
there’s a little bit of a rise, its right along back here. This area here is swaled and this
is swaled here in the back. This water here mostly goes around that side. Councilman
Myers asked and Dana its a lot of water? Mr. Shearer said coming off of Winters. Its
whatever is collecting off all their roofs and parking lot. Councilman Myers said
is there that much water coming off of there? Do you think if we handle that there,
would we cut it in half down at Wilson. I’m saying you have a volume of water
coming down there down. If we get rid of half of it up here what’s that going, what
affect will that have on Philadelphia Street. We don’t have curb down there. So
the water goes down. The road slopes towards Billets old garage there that’s all
grass does it shoot up that way. There is a rolled curb there. Mr. Shearer said there’s
a rolled curb there, it got reduced when we overlayed the street, we didn’t put the
rolled curb back up. What it does when it comes off Philadelphia down to Wilson,
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 26
it picks up the water coming down from Wilson. Because of the crown in the road,
from Wilson Court on Philadelphia, from Wilson Court down to Park from the
crown, it splits off on either side. It beads. Councilman Myers said so about this
crown now, it use to be round. Mr. Shearer said its got a little bit of enough of
a crown that it goes both ways. Okay. So its flowing off the edge on the south side
of Philadelphia against the apartments okay, it flows down along Deardorff’s
property and picks back up at Park and then kind of shoots over towards the house
on the corner. It eventually, what doesn’t fall off at the edge of the road there, into
his back yard, it goes down to the inlet right before Main Street. The other half
picks up in that new inlet there at Restuccias. Councilman Myers said that inlet
there, it goes in but it has also seeded over there. Mr. Shearer said long before
I started here, you had them put those directional veins on, I think that slows
it up a lot. There is another inlet below there, at their entry way. Councilman
Snyder said the problem is when you have a lot of water, it doesn’t get down
to those inlets back at the back end of the Billet property, it jumps that rolled
curb and heads for his building. It floods out that entire parking lot of his cause
I see waterfalls, that’s what I sent Jason pictures of. I see waterfalls coming
down the parking lot. Councilman Allar said I never understand, how does
work with the basketball court? Mr. Shearer said actually the only thing that
collects this drain here picks up what comes off of the court, tennis courts and
rolls through four inch pipe and comes out in a little trench and makes its way
and joins up with this water coming down here and that’s what flows down.
Councilman Allar said isn’t there a tank of some sort? Councilman Myers said
no. Councilman Allar said Ron Crull said was telling me something that
something had to be cleaned out at the basketball court. Mr. Shearer said I
don’t know if he was talking about right here at that inlet. Councilman Myers said
I thought when we built that, we put in a hole. Mr. Shearer said that’s what
it looks like, a basic drain, I wasn’t aware that it was a tank. Councilman Noll
said it wasn’t a French drain. Councilman Allar said it hasn’t been maintained.
Councilman Myers said there’s no way to maintain it unless you tear it up and
dig it up. Councilman Snyder said one thing in the interest of time here, both
options are going to be bid out. Bids will be here for next month’s meeting.
Everyone I would just encourage, between now and next meeting, between
rain storms, go up there and look at it. You see how the water flows and get your
own opinion and come back when we have bids to look at the actual numbers
and go from there. Seriously, if you get to see how its going, get a good storm
up there. See where it will go. I just have a concern that we spend $26,000.00
on a trench and some curbing and its not going to accomplish what we want it
to. As far as collecting all the water that we need to collect. At that point, spend
the $15,000.00 and put it in the right way. That doesn’t mean, we don’t have
issue if we don’t know what our capacity is, which truly we don’t know what
our capacity is. I said that about Mill Creek Interceptor, for how long, they
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 27
keep approving buildings for Mill Creek Interceptor, its only so big how
much flow can you put in there, I think Jason, and that’s why I’m looking
at you because you’re the engineer, I think Jason said at one time, well
the capacity of the pipe is determined by how big the pipe is and force
to push that through. It’s a mathematical equation that so much can go
through that at any given time. We’ve done a study to see how much
water is actually coming off the hill to, if those pipes are any where near
capacity. I do know Dana, had said, that there was, some type of MS-4
grant. Mr. Shearer said you want me to get into that now. Councilman
Snyder no, it’s a MS-4 type grant that you have to spend over $500,000.00
in order just to qualify. My idea is, continue to build up the infracstructure,
continue to build up the storm water system and then when we find, its
at capacity or something like that, now we’ll qualify for a $2 million
dollar grant,we’ll replace all the things from here to there. Councilman
Allar said $500,000.00 of our money? Mr. Malesker said no, its total
project cost, matching grant. Councilman Allar said its matching. Mr.
Malesker said it’s a $500,000.00. You get $500,000.00. Councilman
Allar said we don’t have that. Mr. Malesker said I think they’ve
approved some that are less than $500,000.00. Councilman Myers
asked can you work for free Steve? Mr. Malesker said you can
combine that with sewer, storm sewers, water lines. Councilman
Snyder said if we piggyback in with the water authority, sewer
authority who has the money. Okay, you just increased your project
by $500,000.00. Lets face it in five years we’re getting the sewer authority
anyways so, at that point, lord only knows what they’re doing with the money.
Mr. Shearer said its also, regionalized on projects. We could regionalize with
our neighbors for storm water, the systems do not have to tie together. Councilman
Allar said like they did with the street cleaner? Mr. Shearer said that’s your forte.
Councilman Snyder asked so what else do we need to do for that, do you need
a motion to put it out for bids. Mr. Malesker said yes. A motion was made by
Councilman Noll to put the park project out for bids, first ad will be Friday,
second ad will be Monday August 10th, bid opening will be August 27th at
York County Planning Office and we’ll get the recommendations for the
September 1st meeting and we’ll award it at the September 1st meeting. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Myers. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said motion carried.
Mr. Malesker said also since there is CDBG money involved with this we need to have
a public meeting. So I would suggest we would have that meeting at 6:30PM before the
September 1st meeting. Typically when you have a CDBG project, send out letters to
people that are affected, if you are doing a block of sidewalk, you can’t do that in this
case because it affects more. The secretary asked do I have to put an ad out for that?
Councilman Snyder said how bout we do that, we make it 7:45PM cause we are going
to have a public hearing at 7:30 PM for flood plain ordinance, we’ll just hold a
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 28
a public hearing then, lets face it probably no one will show up. We’ll hold a public
meeting, any public comment, meeting closed. Time to discuss what council wants
to do about some stuff that’s when we can discuss what the bids come in, we’ll
just do it then. The secretary asked all these bid costs is that covered by the CDBG
grant the cost for advertisement. Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure about, I’m not
sure what they pay for. Councilman Snyder said how bout you advertised then it
becomes an engineering costs that you bill. The secretary asked is that considered
an engineering service, advertising. Councilman Snyder said it is, if he charges us
for it. The secretary said not necessarily if its on the invoice though. Could you
ask, I believe when we did the dam, I believe CDBG pick up that, I can’t remember
for sure because it had to do with the project. Mr. Malesker said I’ll check with
Joiann tomorrow. The secretary said could you please, thank you. Councilman
Noll said will all the spec books be available at your office. Mr. Malesker said
they will be available actually at county planning’s office. Councilman Noll said
okay. Do you have a list of contractors? Mr. Malesker said we have a general list,
if you have any that I could share the general list, fax it to you. Its advertised so
everyone can see it typically. Fax, advertisement for the bid, list of contractors.
Councilman Noll asked could you email me on that, Sam and everybody, Dana
anyone can add to it? Councilman Snyder said are you going to get back to her on
that if you find out that the CDBG advertisement? If nothing else what I was thinking
about because we have the $25,000.00 DCED which reimburses engineering costs,
if its an engineering cost. If its an engineering cost. The secretary said engineering
services not engineering cost, its for engineering and design services. Councilman
Snyder said that would be a service provided to Yoe Borough. The secretary asked
Mr. Malesker to read that contract please. Mr. Malesker asked did you give me a copy?
The secretary said yes I did. That is what I need to know. Councilman Snyder said that
kind of stuff we got off on the wrong,we’re talking about two different grants, two
different things. She needs to know what you are going to consider, or what you feel
that program is going to accept as an engineering cost that is going to be reimbursable.
The secretary asked if the CDBG has a percentage of engineering added into that too?
Councilman Allar said the CDBG is 15%. The secretary said okay, keep that in mind
too. Councilman Snyder said we should be good. Mr. Malesker said if you’re paying
for engineering out of the CDBG you typically have to advertise the project and do
it yourself. The secretary said okay, then we don’t have to use that 15%. Mr. Malesker
said no. Councilman Snyder said we’re at $17,000.00 to $18,000.00 now and we
have $25,000.00 so I think we will be fine until the end of the project. The secretary
said I just need to clarify that everything you have billed is definitely covered under
the DCED grant. Mr. Malesker said it should be, up to this point. The secretary said
I need you to verify that via the contract. When you say yes, the money will be
transferred into our general account. Councilman Snyder said when you check on that,
and say yes that will be a reimbursable thing just tell her yes that kind of stuff will
go with the bills that already submitted. The secretary asked then you will have
that bill sent to the borough and not to you or you will definitely have it sent to you
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 29
and I’ll reimburse you. Mr. Malesker said the advertising cost? We would have
that directly be billed to us then I would put it towards as this account. The
secretary said you never showed the advertising before. Councilman Snyder said
this would be a good time to start. Councilman Allar said one other thing since
we are talking about money here, seems to be whole lot of work with
this, is there any way we can use in kind services? That saves money. If we
don’t have do as much on the CDBG. I realize that is a lot of it, with the
40 grand or whatever it come out to. Councilman Snyder said that would
free up another $20,000.00 for CDBG. Mr. Malekser said I would have to look
into that. Councilman Snyder asked didn’t you submit a letter already Seth.
Councilman Noll said I was just looking at the detail here. It was only about
$5000.00 and Yoe Borough spent a couple of dollars worth of materials. Councilman
Allar asked do you have an amount? Councilman Noll said $4532.50. Councilman
Allar said we got a deal there. Councilman Snyder said keep that in the back of your
mind, $4532 whatever, that frees up that we only have to match $65,000.00 for the
DCNR grant. We have $70,000.00 matching. The secretary asked Seth, will I get
another bill for sealing the other plans then. Councilman Noll said I hope not. The
secretary said okay, I paid that, so they have their money. I put that in with the
design services. Councilman Allar asked how much did we pay? The secretary said
$500.00. Councilman Noll said I told them it was a restamp. Councilman Snyder
said before we get off this, one last item on that park project. Again since we
are ready to get it out for bid, I think everybody needs to understand how much
time and effort that Seth has actually put into this. And he has done a good job.
I just wanted to make it public notice of how much time and effort that you
have put into it, and its greatly appreciated. Thank you. Mr. Malesker said
I guess also for the park, if we do the trench we would need an infiltration test.
As part of that, to make sure that it could actually get to the ground water. So
we would need authorization to do the infiltration test unless Seth would do
through Kinsley. So basically we would need a back hoe to do that. Councilman
Snyder said if you were doing the trench, you would have to dig a trench. You have
to do this test if you have dig the trench. So we’re deciding on that next month,
would that be the time to decide if we need to do this test, or that wouldn’t give
you enough time. Mr. Malesker said it can, as long as we don’t find something
as in the result of this test that can change the design of the trench up there.
Councilman Noll said all you need is a back hoe and how many test kits do
you need? Mr. Malesker said two. Councilman Noll said maybe get Dallastowns.
Mr. Shearer said either that or have Brett bring Red Lion’s down. Mr. Malesker
said I think we would have one of our installers bring the infiltration ring.
Councilman Snyder said we have about a $7000.00 lead way, that would be
an engineering cost? Mr. Malesker said that would be about $600.00 to do
the test. Councilman Snyder said we have the money now, maybe we should
authorize it, let him get it done. That way if there is a problem, that would
help with negotiations. I think we have the money in our account, yeah sound
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 30
good. Have a motion to get it done then. Councilman Allar asked do we still
want to use the backhoe for the issue on Main Street. Mr. Malesker said
that is what I suggest, we still have. Mr. Shearer said I don’t know
about the time line on that. Councilman Allar said in other words we
were trying to find the source of water. Mr. Malesker said I guess you
weren’t here last month, the spring. Councilman Snyder said oh that
spring. Councilman Allar said and to find the source of the water. Mr.
Malesker said there’s a settlement of the one pipe, and Dallastown had
their one camera, they can’t get up through that one point because go
through the bump in the pipe. So we would need to excavate it right
there and put the camera in. Mr. Shearer said we’re going to try to use
a locator on a fish tape see if we can figure out where its going before we
dig. To have an idea how far up it might go. Councilman Noll asked
do we need to get permission for that? Mr. Shearer said I think I did
talk to the gentleman the last time we had Dallastown down, to put
the camera up in. I did talk to him that day, and explained to him that
we were trying to figure out what is going on here and we want to get this corrected.
When they did the work there, at the sewer lateral and took that tree out. If we came
in and dug up and fixed that pipe up and cameraed it, and fixed the yard up real
nice right there, he wouldn’t have a care in the world. Councilman Snyder said
if you can do it at the same time I guess. Mr. Malesker said its just a matter of
timing. A motion was made by Councilman Myers to have a perk test done.
The motion was seconded by Councilman Noll. All in favor. Councilman
Snyder said motion carried. And to coordinate that if it coordinates with the
issue on Main Street. Mr. Malesker said one more thing on the park, DCNR
had recommended that for the playground that you be part of the co stars
program. And what we can do, we contacted them and we just got a recent
estimate. What they do, they supply the equipment and install it. So we have
an estimate from them to supply everything we have listed on the project and
install them, their cost right at $60,000.00 to do that. We just got this yesterday.
Our estimate was $61,234.00. So we were pretty close to what this is. If you want
us to, we can contact them to get the equipment ordered. We are on a timeframe here
that we need to get the contractor moving so we can spend the money by December
31st then we would just coordinate once the project is awarded,coordinate with them
to have equipment delivered and installed after the site preparation is done by the
contractor that was awarded to. Councilman Snyder asked how much are you charging
to install it? Mr. Malesker said installing $10,535.00. Councilman Noll said actually
isn’t a bad deal for the amount of the equipment. Councilman Snyder said my only
thing with that is, how does that screw up our bid. Mr. Malekser said it doesn’t,
the bid is set up for contractor to prep, do all the excavating, prep the site. So its by
others here to provide the equipment. Councilman Snyder said it doesn’t affect that.
Mr. Malesker said its already set up that way because that’s what DCNR has wanted
the borough to use that co stars program. Councilman Noll said I’m sure that the
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 31
person that installs the equipment does that all the time. Mr. Malesker said that’s exactly
what they do. Councilman Noll said it isn’t a bad thing to have someone
that does this, have them do it. Councilman Snyder said that bidding
requirement because it was with co stars. Mr. Malekser said it was a
competitive bid, the contractor that got the work through the costars, it
was awarded, it’s a state contract that they have. So at this point you’re
asking us to just approve this. Okay. Mr. Malesker and for us to intitiate
the contact, get the equipment ordered and coordinate. Councilman Noll
asked did they ask what the lead time is on this? Mr. Malesker said they
said three to five weeks. Councilman Noll said that’s not bad. Councilman
Myers said so the labor is part of the cost? Mr. Malesker said yes.
Councilman Noll made a motion that we order the equipment and go with
the co stars competitive bid as outlined by the engineer. The motion was
seconded by Councilman Howett. All in favor. Councilman Snyder said
Floodplain Mr. Malesker said we talked about the floodplain ordinance. Councilman
Ordinance Noll said there is a question on the floodplain ordinance. For people,
do they have to now, even if they don’t have floodplain insurance, within
forty five days they have to get floodplain insurance. Someone found
that in York Township and if you don’t you won’t qualify. Mr. Malesker
said there are some stipulations on that. It depends if you are in the flood
zone. Councilman Noll said if you are in that flood zone, I think from
date of adoption you may only have 45 days to secure that insurance.
Mr. Malesker said you will be able to get it, I think you can get it at
a cheaper rate now. Councilman Noll said there was something, you have
to get within that forty five day window. That is something you may
want to advertise for people that are in the floodplain. Councilman Snyder
said yes, I got a nice article couple weeks back on that. The secretary said
I had someone look at the flood plain ordinance, they brought the article
along. Councilman Snyder said if they realize what we’re passing, I’m
surprised that we’re not packed with people. Because literally you won’t
be able to do anything if you are in the flood plain. Its that restrictive.
What we have is what we’re going to get. Councilman Noll said we’re
probably going to have to update our ordinances, our storm water
ordinances we refer to. Unless it has some language in there that it
has to do with the floodplain ordinances, we might have to update that
as well in the process. Councilman Snyder said for the MS-4. And that
I’m sure you can pick up, we do a MS-4 audit every year. And they would
probably pick that up. Matter of fact we have our annual report right here.
You can’t see much on that map. That ordinance is horrible.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 32
Email Mr. Malesker said I sent Terry Sprenkle an email regarding that letter
To Terry from Aaron Enterprises for the excavation on George Street. They
Sprenkle went to backfill and it started to rain, and he said they were $4000.00
into it and that they weren’t going to do anything else. So I sent Terry
Sprenkle an email to discuss that to see where you go from here basically
from here on that. And he hasn’t gotten back to me. So I think, he
just wants that to go away. Its starting to settle, something is going to
need to be done. When I meet with them to talk about the issues on
the paving on Main Street, we can stop down there and discuss that
at the same time.
Spring Councilman Snyder said and while you are talking about that, just
On to consolidate here with the maintenance report. Dana has brought
Main to my attention the spring on Main Street which we’re currently talking
Street about on Main Street with the back hoe. The sinkhole out here on
and George and there is also a sinkhole developing on Broad Street.
Sink We’re looking into that, we’re going to make recommendations.
Holes and there is a possibility we may have, which I talked about earlier.
Wiping out our liquid fuels account and we may be biting the
bullet on trying to get all three of these projects done together under
one permit. I wanted you to hear that, I wasn’t sure when he would
bring that up. There is a sinkhole issue up on Broad Street. Mr.
Malekser said yeah, we talked about that. Councilman Snyder said
and that may be brought into that as well. Councilman Noll asked
what problem do we have, any idea? Mr. Shearer said yeah, right at
corner of Broad and Main, right there in front of the York Housing
Authority house, its on the southwest corner. There is a spot where
part of the curb, right there on the Main Street side. There’s a large
box in there, the line that comes down Main Street comes into that
box. The curb inlet on the other side where the water from Main
Street problem is flowing into that line comes across into that box.
There’s a constant flow of water coming from PVC pipe. We cameraed
back up in, and you can see a cast iron pipe that’s kind of angled
towards Sprenkles. The house of the other side of the street there.
It goes from that point, it collects everything coming down Main
Street, everything coming into that point. It flows on an angle
over towards the northwest side of Broad Street. If you stand there,
its almost on a dead angle. The first inlet on Broad Street, on the north
side of Broad Street. It runs there on an angle. There’s an inlet right
by the stop sign right there. Right there at the stop sign is the area
where the sink hole is at. That line that runs through there is a poured
concrete box its not a pipe. The bottom is gone. And right at that inlet,
the sidewalls of the box are starting to scour out. So that constant flow
of water from A. The Main Street problem and B. The pipe coming from
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 33
Sprenkles, on that side of the hill, is running through there. And over time
the constant flow of water, and all the road salt and everything, pretty well
took out the whole bottom of that box. Its causing it to start to settle. If
look as you following the angle over the towards the inlet on the north
side of the street, walk that, you can see a depression forming that is right
in line. That means that further up, there are more problems where its
starting to give away. That whole section from the corner up to that first
inlet on the opposite side needs to be replaced. Councilman Noll said you
can’t pour a bottom in it. Mr. Shearer said I haven’t had a chance to go
that way yet. We tried to camera it, we didn’t realize it was as huge as
big as it was,we used the little camera. But if I can get in there, the access
coming off of the sidewalk, try to get access in there. Get a picture of what
is going on in there. I don’t know if we’re going be able to repour that
bottom or not. When I stuck my head in, that inlet that’s by the stop sign
and pulled the inlet top off and stuck my head in. I couldn’t figure out
how the big rock got in the middle of the bottom of the thing. Until
I realized that the big rock is what I left of the floor. So. Councilman
Naylor said the problem with the water coming down the pipe, we’re
` still going to have a problem. Mr. Shearer said we have to solve the
problem there. It isn’t going to be easy. For now I took some of the big
rip rap that I had up at the dam, shoved a whole bunch of that in, I had
some two b’s left from the park, kind of mixed of them together to try
to create something of substance in that hole. To keep that part of
the road together. Expand out across that part of the bottom. Councilman
Noll said when that gets soft, you get some cars and trucks that run
over that. Councilman Snyder said at that point, when we do something
at George, we might as well be looking at that and tying them both
together. I don’t know if we can do it as one permit then. Mr. Malesker
said well, you may want to be careful with that, if you do all three,
and its over $25,000.00 you will be paying prevailing wage. So you may
just want to treat them as separate projects. It depends on the scope,
you may not get to that point, I’m just. Mr. Shearer said if you do all
three projects in one year as storm water work, storm water repairs.They
still may want us to put them together, correct me if I’m wrong. They
don’t like it when you. Councilman Snyder said to get away from
prevailing wage. Mr. Malesker said well, yeah, this isn’t on the same
street, I think you can considerate this separate projects. I know what
you’re saying. Councilman Allar said the one on George Street, I though
that was the homeowner, tying into the sewer system. Councilman Snyder
said that is what was originally thought but it turns out not to be.
Councilman Allar said who contributed to it, the sewer authority or what?
Mr.Shearer said the one on George down here, they dug that up, what they
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 34
found is a cast iron pipe that rusted through and allowed whatever water
that is going through, because there is a steady trickle and that what was
that eventually over time, gave away. My worry is because its cast iron
and that one pvc pipe that turned cast iron up there on Broad Street, when
we looked at that, I don’t know if this is something was a long ago fix
to channel springs to the proper place. Councilman Allar said we don’t
know anything about it. Mr. Shearer said we don’t know anything about it.
Councilman Allar said PENN DOT could have put it in forty years ago,
fifty years ago. It’s a state road. Because $50,000.00. Mr. Shearer said
because PENN DOT will tell you, we don’t do storm water. Councilman
Allar said they would if they are put on the rope for that. Mr. Shearer said
I’ve had this fight with them, and I tried to tell them. We tried to tell them
down in Glen Rock, that’s your creek this is your road, this is your wall to
keeping the states creek from collapsing into the states road. And they
said, historically we believe that, that wall was before the existence of
the Department of Highways. So they’re going to say, historically we
didn’t put in cast iron pipe, or you know something, they’re going to
hmm and hawl to the tactics that they are good at. Councilman Allar said
when the road is impassable and dangerous, they will then. Get a crew
out and fix it. All I’m saying is, its kind of like a tax audit. If you get an
audit, then you bill them. No one calls the IRS says, I want an audit. Mr.
Shearer said I agree, when the hole developed first call I made was to
PENN DOT. They sent down a foreman that called me back and said,
that’s mighty close to that manhole, looks like a sewer issue to us. You
know just staying on top, unless you can put that on their hands.
Councilman Allar said but they have people that are overloaded, that
have all kind of jobs. They don’t want another job. When a homeowner
calls PENN DOT and says a motorcycle ride almost spilled, almost
killed themselves with that hole. Safety issue that’s different. Councilman
Noll said PENN DOT will give a fine if someone gets hurt there.
Councilman Naylor said the problem is if they determine its not a problem
with the road surface or something. That’s not how it works. Councilman
Noll is extremely helpful. Mr. Shearer said I can tell you stories.
Councilman Snyder said we wanted to keep you updated, to see if we
can tie this altogether here as we have to approach it. We will do what
we have to do. Councilman Noll said do we need any type of motion
tonight to have Dana on board on spending money, get Steve to get
a spec together. Mr. Malesker said we’re going to meet with PENN DOT.
Councilman Snyder said they’re going to meet with PENN DOT and
we’ll go from there. Let us know, to act on something more.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 35
YCPC Mr. Malesker said I talked to York County Planning Commission, I know
about there are a couple of bridges here in the borough that need some work.
Bridges There is some potential for some funding to be done available, that could
be used towards those bridges. You won’t be eligible for those grants
unless you have permits in hand. G-P-11 permits. Because they want
issue the contract within 90 days. They need to have permits ready so
what we could we could put Mason Avenue, Church Street bridge and
the gabions along Mill Creek put them on the same G-P-11 application,
get it submitted. That permit would be good for three years, you would
have three years to do the work which is going to be done sometime
anyway. There is no guarantee that you’ll get any of grant. If something
comes available you would have the permits available. So. Councilman
Noll asked can you extend those permits? Mr. Malesker said you can
extend those, we never extended beyond one so I don’t know. Councilman
Allar said is it a three year extension? Mr. Malesker said its not a three
year extension, we’ve never pushed it. Councilman Snyder asked how
long is it going to take to get a permit? Mr. Malesker said a couple
months. Councilman Allar said it looks like the second round for
the federal, is February. So in order to be shovel ready, we are going to
start in this direction. The secretary asked what kind of grant is it,
matching? Mr. Malesker said there’s different ones. Councilman Snyder
said most of the stimulus money is coming through the CDBG, the shovel
ready projects. Mr. Malesker said that’s how they are putting a lot of it
through. Councilman Allar said well Steve talked to, who did you talk to?
Mr. Malesker said I talked to Will Clark. Councilman Allar said and
apparently Will Clark is expecting this. Councilman Snyder asked how
much to do a permit? Mr. Malesker said this is maintenance type
activity, I don’t know about the gabions, but I inspected the Mason
Avenue bridge, about seven years I did that. Councilman Allar said
when we did the walk through, you looked at it again, and it needs
done. Councilman Snyder said I’m not saying it doesn’t need done,
I’m looking at a figure, a thousand dollars. We’re looking at spending
a thousand dollars to invest in a potential grant for February. That’s
what I’m looking at. Mr. Malesker said the work is going to need
to be done at sometime because there are problems associated with
both bridges. So the work is going to need to be done sometime, whether
you like it or not, so. Councilman Snyder said I’m not talking about that,
cause we’ll look at some other grant that. I’m looking at are we wasting
money on a permit now. Is what I’m looking at. Councilman Naylor said
well if the permit’s good for three years. Councilman Snyder said that’s
what I’m saying, how much is what you think ballpark figure is. Mr.
Malesker said you are probably looking at $1500.00 per location.
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 36
Councilman Snyder asked so you can’t get one permit to cover them all.
Mr. Malesker said it would be one permit application but for each one
you have to sketches, paperwork, pictures, everything that they propose
you have to do. It would all be submitted as one project. Councilman Allar
said now the permit that we have for the gabions, are for the lower end?
Mr. Malesker said I’m not sure. I’d have to look at the up and see if that
permit is within three years. Councilman Allar said the original idea was
to go down along Mason but we didn’t have enough money. The work
that C.S. Davidson did on it. Councilman Snyder said that’s what I was
thinking, we submitted for a CDBG grant, we ranked them. Okay, the
park got to be ranked number one, which is why it got dropped in the
first place. All that work should already be done. We also applied for
county liquid fuels money for the one bridge, the Mason Avenue Bridge.
That was suppose to be tied in with the gabions. And that’s what I’m
trying to say, with already having all that background information on
file. Its still going to cost $4000.00 to get a permit. Mr. Malesker said
that would certainly save some money, I don’t know what is there with
Mill Creek what is involved with that or Mason Avenue. Councilman
Snyder said okay. Mr. Malekser said its been awhile since I’ve inspected
that, conditions have changed since I inspected that. The bottom line is
the downstream portion of that section is being undermined by the flow,
so its sediment that is going down into stream. So would need to be reset,
a tow wall poured,and then a new wind wall on the inside where the
gabions. We know what the scope is its just a matter of coming up with
details to show DEP what we’re doing. Councilman Snyder said I don’t
think your grasping what. Mr. Malesker said I know what you’re saying.
Councilman Snyder said that work is already, what I’m trying to get at
then, is if its going to take like two months to secure that permit. Find out
with Jason over the next month, what information is already there and
available so you can come back to council next month and say this
practically already done its going to cost $500.00 to put in for a permit or
its going to cost $4500.00 to put in for a permit even though we’ve already
done all this work. That way we know we still have a couple months to
get the permit and get them secured for this February grant round. And
at that point we make an educated guess do we want to spend $4500.00
with the assumption we are getting the grant or not getting the grant.
Because otherwise we’re not prepared to do the project for another
two to three years at least. Maybe even more. Councilman Noll said
can Sandy check if we have it budgeted for something like that? Mr.
Malesker said any work associated with the bridge work can be a liquid
fuel expense. Councilman Snyder said but with what Dana just talking
about with the three projects that we have, sinkhole. That probably
Engineer’s Report(cont.) Page 37
be eaten up. The secretary said let me look at it until next month because
what I need to do is transfer the money from the DCED grant into
the general fund. As you know, September comes I start I work on
budget. Right now we are about at our engineering max, but that includes,
the park, the dam and all this other stuff. What we’ve actually done for
the borough other than the park and dam hasn’t been very much.
Councilman Noll said once these are applied. Councilman Snyder said
I just want to get a handle on how much engineering dollars we are
spending. The secretary said I think that we know, if it is a good chance
that we don’t get anything we match or not. We have to provide the
matching funding, is there another avenue that we can get the matching
funding from. We still need to know how we are going to fund this
project even if we get a permit, two three years down the road. We have
to know. Mr. Malesker said there is no guarantee that you get the grant.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, since there is no
guarantee that we’ll get the grant, I want to know how much money
we’re sinking into it. If its $10,000.00 that we’re sinking into the
permit, we’d better be sure that we get the grant before we spend
$10,000.00. If you say its only going to cost $750.00 to get the permit,
okay we only have the 30% shot to get the grant, yeah I’d waste $750.00.
That’s what I’m trying to get at. Because we don’t even know if the
second round is coming in February, that’s why I want to know how
much are we going to put on the chopping block. We still have to
do the work, but in three years I don’t see it happening if we don’t
have grant money. And with CDBG already funding the park, I don’t
know if we are up to our next three year funding to do the bridge. Because
something else better pop up because its not going to happen with CDBG.
This stimulus money would be a great opportunity. Councilman Allar
said sometimes you have to go for it. Councilman Snyder said oh yeah.
Mr. Malesker said that’s all I have. Councilman Snyder said anything
for the engineer? If I or Tom hears anything from Rettew about the scope
of work,we’ll get back to you. Thanks for coming tonight.
Councilman Snyder read curb painting, street sign replacement, still working removal
on tall pine, grass mowing, weed eating underway, work crews worked for a total of
44 man hours and you will get a price to add to the budget monies to add money
dual wheels to Red Lion’s mower.
Budget Mr. Shearer said you didn’t see about the budget money and the
big thing at the sinkhole. Councilman Snyder said that was already
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 38
discussed. Mr. Shearer said I would like you to think about putting
some money in the budget for next year to do a survey of the system.
So we can figure out what is going on where and make some plans
and see what we could do. Right now we are going hap hazardly
when stuff falls in. To give us an idea what the system is. Councilman
Snyder said if you could, we have no money, we’re just squeaking
by now. Does it need be done, yes it needs done, everything needs
done. Give us a cost estimate, if you say this thing can be done for
$2000.00 maybe $3000.00 we may be able to find from somewhere.
If you give a cost estimate and its going to be $30,000.00, we can put
that to bed right now, we’re going to have to find another alternative.
Mr. Shearer said one of the reasons that I think we need to do it, I think
we kind of need to put some kind of plan together,for this because you
know like Tom said, if there is a shot of stimulus money coming back and
you know who knows, maybe a couple more shots of stimulus money and
they like those shovel ready projects. So I kind would like see us have
some idea of what we need to fix and some preliminary plans so he can
be ready when somebody says, oh by the way next week there’s they’re
going to have a grant to do this so. We can jump on it. Councilman Allar
said there is a sense that from week to week, we’re going to have time
to do this, the county doesn’t have any time, so when it comes through.
Mr. Shearer said this isn’t like normal CDBG money where you pick
the project and it goes through the three years of approval, they want
stuff, they want to put guys to work now. They want contractors to
be out there working. If its stuff that is on the drawing board, on the
pipeline, then that’s the stuff they’re looking to find. Along with
everything we got going, we need to kind of take a look of what
the system’s like, get an idea of what we need to do so that that way
we’re not talking about $500,000.00 to 2 million for a H2O grant we
can take advantage of stimulus money. Councilman Snyder said we can
take advantage of stimulus money, I’m just throwing this out to them.
And it needs to be shovel ready, why can’t we put our current Dam
project in for that. Free up all these municipalities matching money and
say lets go for this forebay. Councilman Allar said you already have that
money, why rock the boat. Councilman Snyder said free up $20,000.00 of
our money. Councilman Allar said by the time you put something like this
together,you’re going to put everything off another couple of years. Councilman Snyder said I just thought if its shovel ready, submit it for
stimulus money. Councilman Allar said you mean for the dam?
Councilman Snyder said yeah. Councilman Allar said we are so close
now, we’re in the final lap now to do things. Mr. Shearer said we would
need them to come out and say, okay, here’s the stimulus program for
Maintenance Report(cont.) Page 39
flood control project. And our flood control project would have to meet
that criteria for it to be compliant. These things are targeted for certain
things. Councilman Allar said you have to be on the federal list? Mr.
Shearer said what I’m saying is, its like the gravel roads program. That
was something that was aimed towards dirt roads that were causing
run off problems and people had plans for. And you know, you got to
have, its not a broad scope to the stimulus project. Councilman Snyder
said okay, I was just throwing that out, I was trying to free up $20,000.00
of our costs maybe even more by saying instead of putting in for five
other municipalities, the county and DEP, we’ll just tunnel it through
it through stimulus. If its not’s doable, that’s all I needed to hear. Mr.
Shearer said to the best of my knowledge, I haven’t seen anything that
stimulus for stormwater systems. But you know, stuff comes in.
Councilman Allar said that’s what I’m saying, if the one that was sent
out emphasizes bridges, and we have roads and bridges then we can look at that then. Councilman Snyder said oh I agree. I have a problem
spending $4500.00 when some of this stuff. Councilman Allar said
well next year it might be $5500.00, the next year $6000.00. You
have to go out there and take a look. Councilman Snyder said I totally
agree it needs done.
Zoning Officer’s Report
Councilman Myers said he had 9 ½ hours in. Total of 32 miles. He issued a permit for a pool without a fence. Zoning hearing, we already know about that. 39 W. George Street,
a driveway. 92 W. Broad Street, went to look at a property and found a rooster. Councilman Snyder said Alta’s rooster. Councilman Myers said checked weeds at 35 W.
Broad Street, 39 W. George Street issued a permit, replaced concrete on porch at 116 W.
Broad Street, replaced fence at 61 W. Pennsylvania. Put in loading platform in at 48
N. Main Street. Demo shed and replace at 308 S. Elm Street. Collected some money.
He’s working. Councilman Snyder asked any issues for the zoning officer.
New Radio Mayor Sanford reported the new radio system is up and running rather
Bill PA Mayor Sanford said a bill has been introduced in the Pennsylvania House
House regarding workmen’s comp coverage for volunteer EMA people. So
we’ll see if that goes through, always a gray area there.
EMA Report(cont.) Page 40
Work Mayor Sanford said its work in progress on the Emergency Action Plan
In for the Dam. Start with DEP regarding the seal. Spoke with Steve he
Progress can actually stamp once all is done. That should actually be submitted
within the next fifteen days.
Councilman Snyder asked any issues for the mayor?
FEMA Mayor Sanford said FEMA sent me a box of stuff, its back here. There’s
visibility studies, flood insurance studies. Six booklets and also maps.
That maps are all in sequence, they’re not all the same maps. Please
don’t take any. You can see the detail there of the borough.The alley
along the back of George Street, in front of the fire company. The
plan goes into effect September 25, 2009. Any issues for the mayor.
Mayor and Police Report
Mayor Sanford reported the police report for June 2009, 24 calls, 3 accidents, traffic
citations; were up from details on George and Main Streets, 49 were issued, 1
misdemeanor felony arrest that dealt with indecent assault and 1 juvenile arrest.
Service hours for the month June was 48 hours, administrative 29.25 hours.
Mayor Sanford said we’re dealing with a drug problem up on Broad Street,
92 W. Broad Street. They’re working with police department and citizens
Mayor Sanford said correspondence we got a letter from FEMA saying they’re
going send the items that I did receive.
Mayor Sanford said got a letter from United Way requesting some updated
information. I’ll handle that, update that.
Mayor Sanford said another letter from gas energy, Paradigm, regarding
gas emergencies which I’ll forward.
Councilman Allar asked about the felonies and misdemeanors? Mayor
Sanford said it was random, some warrants and arrests, no real pattern.
Councilman Allar asked nothing as far as locations? Mayor Sanford
said the area around your house and certain areas of Broad Street.
Drug, disturbances, domestics. Councilman Allar asked anything about
the activity itself? Mayor Sanford said same kind of stuff, consistently.
Its all the people that. Councilman Allar said Dallastown has notice
a significant change in 2008 from 2007. Mayor Sanford asked on?
Mayor and Police Report(cont.) Page 41
Councilman Allar said on felonies and misdemeanors and total arrests.
It seems our arrest, that our numbers would come up to. Are they
not making arrests here that they should be making? Councilman Sanford
said that could be a theory, that there are more undesirable people going
into Dallastown that are getting caught. That is a theory. Councilman Snyder
said could it be the number of hours that they get, allows them to do
more details. Councilman Allar said well, that can work itself out because
its four times bigger. Four times more people. Mayor Sanford said there
not going to do detail per say, sitting on the areas or, or detail. Councilman
Allar said I’ve had some experience with home owners calling me that they
went to the police in one particular case, three times about someone that
trespassed. And they knew this person, this person was I. D. Police officer
went to that person, told them to not get on the property. The homeowner
did this three times. I got involved the fourth time. I’m not saying it was
the same police officer but it was the same property owner, the same line
item. The officer said we’ve established the same pattern and the fifth
time we’re going to arrest him. What’s the policy? What is the order, why
didn’t he arrest him the second time I don’t know. Mayor Sanford said
a lot has to do with the officer, I will have to get the information, from
one shift to another shift. So I’ll give them call. You give them a call,
and I give them a call on the same situation, with that type of situation,
I don’t know. Councilman Allar said I understand there are differences.
Same with Dallastown, our numbers are going down, theirs are going up.
Mayor Sanford said I think we’re getting the same services, I don’t think we’re
being ignored. I don’t know if people are calling as much as they do in
Dallastown. I’m not sure what’s going on. I don’t see any difference there,
calls in Dallastown, calls in Yoe. Obviously more calls in Dallastown.
Councilman Snyder said that’s what I’m saying, the hours they’re putting
in, if we’re getting two service hours, and they’re purchasing four service
hours. Councilman Allar said I’m saying enforcement. They’re getting
the same service hours, the numbers for total arrests are up. They have
more people, they have more hours. Councilman Snyder said if they had
say four hours versus our two hours, they have more time to do that
investigations to do those arrest. We’re not giving them the time to do
the investigations to make the arrests. Councilman Allar said the numbers
are the same. Mayor Sanford said hours don’t have a lot to do with it.
They answer the call, you can be arrested whether Dallastown or Yoe.
Councilman Allar said all I can say, you have to keep an eye on the
statitics. It depends. Mayor Sanford said I’ll look at some others, Windsor
and some of the others. Councilman Snyder asked anything else for
Secretary’s Report Page 42
The secretary said I need some dates for the Free Yard Sale, Labor Day is Monday September 7th. You had it for two days. Councilman Snyder said we try to
coordinate it with Dallastown. Councilman Allar said didn’t coordinate with
something with the fire company. The secretary said we did around Labor Day
last year. Councilman Snyder said it use to be in church. The secretary said it
use to be in May then you changed it. I have people calling I’d like to get it on
my tape. Councilman Noll said let’s do it the fourth and fifth, Friday and Saturday.
The secretary said I’ll advertise it for the 4th and 5th of September.
The secretary reported the office will be closed the week of August 17th. Reopening
The secretary said York County Planning Commission provided these brochures and the display cases you see over here for the Homebuyers Assistance Program and the Home
Improvement Program. They will displayed and if anyone would like to look at them
here they are.
August 18 Councilman Snyder said a meeting is set up for Tuesday August 18,2009
Meeting at 9AM down here with Keystate Publisher to go over the preliminary
draft of the code book. Councilman Allar said we had talked about one
time about a general ordinance to take care of unsightly homes and
buildings and so forth. Do we have something like that? Has the
zoning officer work with that? Councilman Snyder said he’s been
putting stuff in there. Councilman Allar said people have old TV
towers that need taken down, stuff like that. We can take action on
based on whatever that ordinance is. Councilman Snyder said probably
not like a TV tower or something. Councilman Noll said I think our
ordinance states about a public risk, so if it’s a public risk. Councilman
Snyder said if it can be determined it’s a public hazard. Councilman
Allar said what about if a tree falls into someone elses property. Because
now is the time, you are going to have some other situations like that.
Councilman Snyder said anything that is in this folder here, has been
discussed over the council meetings, and if someone had issues. Like
a dead tree was never brought up so its not going to be in there. This stuff
is going to be added or given to him that day, we’ll go over everything
and say now you can add that in and put that in the new code book. We
will then get the new revised book again, to reread again. Basically what
this meeting about, he gave us that first book. And he had comments for
every single question, do you want to keep this, do you want to add that.
Is this what you want to keep fines for this? Pete and I went over that,
said yeah yeah yeah, no no no , this is fine this is fine. We had Dana
Unfinished Business (cont.) Page 43
go over the streets cause do we need a section on yields. No we don’t
so we deleted that section out. That’s the kind of stuff that we are going
over on that Tuesday. At that same time, we are going to hand him this
and say incorporate all this along with those changes. This is stuff that
we discussed over the council meeting. Vector control, to tighten
up our garbage ordinance, tighten up our weed ordinance, to tighten
up that property code thing. With people not paying that $100.00 permit
thing on time, all that we’ve discussed over the last year is in here, that’ll
be discussed, and included in the new book. We’ll have the opportunity,
and if something pops up, do we have address towers or. Councilman
Allar said do we specially put it in the words, like a dead tree. Or will
we have general wording or have enough in it to file a complaint. We
are not going to come up with every single possibility. There’s always
something out that there, crazy chickens. Councilman Snyder said
Pete said that with the way our ordinances are written currently. He said
our ordinances are written vague enough that if its deemed a public
nuisance we can go after them. The question only came when we said
the burden of proof is always on us if it’s a public nuisance or not.
Councilman Allar said the burden is on us to say how dead is it. So
we have that in a letter. But if its going strictly on a grocery list of
items we’ll always find something. Councilman Snyder said which is
why we tried to keep them as vague as possible. Except with the
vector control, with this stuff on porches, its going to say an accumulation
of material which can harbor a rodent. I guarantee someone that’s keeping
a sofa and a chair everything else out on the porch, to us looks like junk,
they say no that’s not trash, we can go after them, yes it can harbor a
rodent. Councilman Allar said the same thing with properties that
are unsightly. Something we can do. Councilman Noll said a lot of that
stuff is in there. Mr. Shearer said as far as properties go, if you want
stronger language, then like we said, you need to adopt the property
maintenance code. The secretary said and that way Code Administrators
get involved. Mr. Shearer said and that’s kind of what, we run into
that a few times, situation at 92 W. Broad Street, the garage over there,
where there’s some structural issues. That if it were a rental property,
we could go after them. Councilman Allar said are you talking about
inspection? Mr. Shearer said I’m not talking inspection, not necessarily
an inspection. I’m not saying whatever time limit inspection. I’m saying
it could be complaint driven that if someone comes to us about, whoever
enforces that code goes and yeah, they would have a little bit more,
teeth to apply that code. Councilman Snyder said one thing that we
did hear, in our building, cause we did update the building ordinance.
It basically says you must maintain your property in a safe manner.
Unfinished Business (cont.) Page 44
So at 210 Main Street, we could go after them because the porch is
falling down and there is holes in the roof. Specially address things
such as that. Its just that we have to go after them. Councilman Allar
said what about eyesores? Councilman Snyder said most of your
eyesores are going to be unsafe, porches. You’ve got one two doors
down from you that his roof has. Councilman Allar said like I said,
maybe they fixed the porch but its still an eyesore. It affects property
values. Mr. Shearer said and that’s why I said before, that’s exactly
why the first year when you adopted the rental ordinance, for
the property maintenance code. You had it the first year, then he
sent in a letter saying I’m not renting. Because pretty much, he’s
thumbing his nose at us. Okay here it is, do something. Councilman
Allar said Sam saying that stuff is in there.
Councilman Snyder asked anything else for unfinished business?
Email Councilman Snyder said received email about the National Flood
about Insurance meeting at York Township on Tuesday August 25 from
NFI 9AM till 11 AM for building code officials, municipal engineers,
managers, permit officers and planners.
Notice Councilman Snyder said received notice from York Adams Regional
Smart Smart Growth Coalition, Thursday August 20th at 8:30AM at RAYC,
Growth Smileway, York to discuss smart growth in York County.
Hemler Councilman Snyder said received notice from Hemler Animal Control
Notice that they are going to be some things address for this next years
contract. Return to owner fees going up to $50.00 from $25.00.
Item R, which doesn’t say what item R is, the wording is going to
be changing. So we will keep that with the secretary to look over that.
Kocman Councilman Snyder said we received notice from Kocman Insurance
Notice this is just a FYI. If the council wanted to move on it. Currently our
property coverage is $350,000.00 with an annual premium of $275.00.
General liability existence hazard and dam failure is $500.00 for
the annual premium. And then to add earth quake coverage with a
limit of $500,000.00 the annual premium would be $138.00. If council
wanted to move on that. That’s all I had for new business. Councilman
Allar said he just gave us the one coverage. Councilman Snyder said
$500,000.00 for $138.00. Councilman Allar said if something happened
New Business (cont.) Page 45
out there at the basin, its not going to catch on fire, I don’t know whether
its worth. We wouldn’t need that. Councilman Snyder said we can think
about it for budget time, we can think about it for next year. Councilman
Allar said it wouldn’t be that much money, to repair earth quake
damage wouldn’t be worth $100.00 to $150.00. Mayor Sanford said
are you sure this isn’t for all our properties. The secretary said this
is additional quotes that were asked of him. Tom had asked him at
the meeting when he was here about the earthquake, back in June.
The secretary said its just that nobody discussed it I just wanted to make
sure everybody remembered of it. Everyone got a copy of it and nobody
said anything. Then Mr. Truax came down and asked if anyone said
anything and I said no. That is additional premiums. Mayor Sanford
asked isn’t property coverage for structures. The secretary said I think
he wants to increase that to $350,000.00. that is additional premium.
I did make him aware when we redo the park I want him to go back up
there and assess that. We won’t have that cover properly. I don’t think
$350,000.00 you need that. Mayor Sanford said I not sure if earthquake
would take care of the dams. Earthen dams I’m not sure. Councilman
Snyder said we can think about that for next year’s budget.
York County Councilman Snyder said we received an update from the York County
Comp Plan Comprehensive plan on an amendment if anyone decides they want
to read that.
Payment of Bills
Councilman Snyder said we do have a few additional items, Griffith Strickler and this is
for the half of year, finally gave us our half year, $4158.95, it still keeps around budget.
Verizon Wireless,$55.66, oh yeah I read about that last month in the minutes but I didn’t
hear anything tonight but you can update us if you got anything. Verizon, $37.73,
Verizon $73.70, Columbia Gas $33.03, Columbia Gas $22.33, Daniel Krieg, Inc. $270.00
and MCI $13.95. So with those additions. A motion was made Councilman Allar to
pay the bills with those addtions. The motion was seconded by Councilman Manns.
All in favor. Councilman Snyder said bills are paid.
Councilman Myers made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 10:27PM. The motion
was seconded by Councilman Snyder. All in favor.